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Luck, Tyche and Superstition

Feb 26, 20251 hr 21 min
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Transcript

Speaker 1

You see something's going to happen.

Speaker 2

What what's going to happen?

Speaker 1

I'll think what a Welcome to the Occult Rejects. Tonight we are talking tichi luck, superstition, cairos and how it affects you and how integrated it is in your society and you just don't even know it. Tonight we got Nick that they called reflex and ethan indigo. Guys, why don't you introduce yourselves and talk about what you're thinking about?

Speaker 2

Oh, thank you Nick from the Occult Rejects. I was very happy that you hit you with this topic because I don't know anything about it, So again I appreciate you. Let me jump on and learn something with you there, buddy.

Speaker 3

Thank you.

Speaker 1

Absolutely tell them where they can find you.

Speaker 4

Yeah, fascinating topic. This is going to be fun. I'm looking forward to what I have this has got to say. And I'm a writer, and you know frequent the Cole Rejects and had this podcasts as well. And I have got some writing about sacred geometry and so forth. Several articles on a col reject site.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, that's right. Let me let me plug that real quick. A cult research Institute dot org. Yes, got a bunch of stuff over there, Yeah, what's some thank you?

Speaker 4

And several other people.

Speaker 1

Well, I hope this is the boat that launches one hundred more ships in this direction. Because Taiki is one of the fundamental principles of Greek religion and Roman religion that has really gotten the translation into English. Yet despite the fact that we constantly use their symbols, we constantly use their themes, we constantly have these things sitting in the background without acknowledgment and understanding that is going to make you understand this topic a lot more.

Speaker 5

So.

Speaker 1

There's this great Latin poem about fortune and how fickle it is, and the Greeks understood Taiki or Tiki to be this goddess that was fickle. She was said to be blind, and she represents fortune and fate and she's the reason why you have the cornucopia, right, So the cornucopia is one of her symbols, and everybody uses it for, you know, Thanksgiving, and they have no idea what they're posting.

This is a pagan goddess, that's her symbol, and it's transferred perfectly over into Thanksgiving and everybody it's like, oh yeah, it's a corner copy it's the horn of plenty, but they don't realize that it comes from this source. So to start off with, let's see if we can get Karl Orlov's O Fortuna, and there should be an English translation on the screen as well, because this was written in Latin. You might not know the words, but you've definitely heard the song before.

Speaker 3

As to gus so chip and get some contes something so infl uchi. So s's has been it's not to.

Speaker 6

Follows sis fons fund of.

Speaker 3

Songs STI so asists not to s people So sad pass a uppy talking or something. Seven sepo cons.

Speaker 5

That's that xtap that back happen, go back up, bout.

Speaker 6

Eat one food and so does fall.

Speaker 3

Oh it's it's a foods up. So hope group.

Speaker 6

Up as a blacks pot foot.

Speaker 3

Bob people us I tell me, oh it's sexus en excellent.

Speaker 6

Deep.

Speaker 1

What did you guys think of the lyrics?

Speaker 2

It's pretty interesting. It seems very alchemical to me in a sense.

Speaker 1

It really has that feel, especially with Latin, and it was just all about the ill turn of fortune. So in addition to the cornucopia, another symbol of Tychi is the wheel of fortune, She's often associated with Hecita because Hecate's wheel is also associated with this wheel of fortune idea. So Hecate's wheel is where we get the game show Wheel of Fortune from, right, So, uh, Heckuita's wheel looks a little bit different than what you normally think of.

It's got these I believe it's three stars on it, and it is supposed to be put between these two strings, and you're supposed to pull the strings, so the wheel spins and spins and then lands on a fortune. Right, it was kind of a fortune telling device back then. And this Hecates wheel is, you know, often associated with gambling and everything else. Well, Taiki the first dice in Greece, we're actually devoted to Taiki so or tiki, you know, it's the Greek pronunciation versus how you want to say

it in English. So all of these symbols that we have with luck and fortune telling and all the rest of this stuff come directly from the worship of this goddess. And tik Taiki is all often seen with Nemesis, and Nemesis is the goddess of you know, vengeance also justice. So what they were hoping is that Nemesis would govern

Taichi and not give good things to bad people. So you can understand why this would be kind of a suppressed goddess, because if you're wishing nemesis on somebody, then they're gonna get this bad taichi like in Oh Fortuna, which is all about bad luck, and how bad luck is this tyrant ruling from this iron throne that you can't get out of, and you're just under this oppressive

force of never having good luck. And in a lot of ways, this also goes into the aspect of TIChE with her consort, which is Kaitos, and Kaitos is this Greek concept of subjective time, right, so kitos would be in a sort of opposition or maybe I guess balance with the concept of chronos, and chronos would be the mechanical times taking away on the clock. You know, you've got so many hours left in the day, You've got so many hours left in the uh, you know, at work,

all the rest of these mechanical concepts of time. Kitos would be subjective time, right, So this would be the quality version of quantitative time. So are you doing what you want to do? Are you doing what makes you happy? And Kitos is kind of an interesting character. Let me see if I can say you link to well, let me see. Can I send you a picture or can you look up Kaidos on your Google machine? There, Nick,

I was gonna put it out there. K A I R O S. This is a really interesting looking character because he's got these really long locks of hair in the front, and he's got this razor blade that he's holding in his hand that's balancing this scales, right, and he's got winged feet like Hermes, and also wings on his back. And you can find this really great relief of him where he's got wings and it looks like he's in motion and he's holding on his fingertip this

razor blade that's balancing the scales. Now, the reason why he's got these really long hairs in the front is because this concept of subject of time can only be grabbed from the front right. The back of his head is bald, so as soon as those moments slip away from you, there's no grabbing them. So it's very very clear with the symbol means you have to be able

to plan for this quality time. You have to be able to embrace the amount of time that you're spending doing the things that you love and you have to value it. There you go, Yeah, so that's Chiros right there. He's only got the hair in the front. He's got these wings and he's balancing the scales on this razor thin edge. And this was used in a lot of coins, and this was meant to represent the time that you have with your family, the time that you have doing

the things you love. It's obvious why he would be so closely associated with luck, because as you're doing the things that you love, you then that you are lucky. Right. You then feel that Tihi and Tiki and Kaidos are so very closely associated in the Greek mind that they were. She was the consort of him and he was the consort of her, and they always came together. And so when you understand this, you can really start to understand

the pagan perspective on gods and goddesses. Right, These aren't things that have to be believed in, These aren't things that have to be confessed to. These are things that just are. This is the unity of both human consciousness, the human soul. Psyche right, Psyche is you know it sounds like Tiki because that Tiki would come along with the ideas of this Kaidos as well.

Speaker 5

So you have to be.

Speaker 1

Looking towards this character of Kidos so that you can catch him by the hair and know that that is when you are having a good time. And so once once you kind of get into this mode of thinking, you can really start to understand why the cornucopia is associated with Thanksgiving and these families coming together, because this is the time, This is your quality time. This is supposed to be where your memories are formed. This is supposed to be your your strength and your basis for

for understanding. So it's not just about gambling. It's also about feeling lucky because the luckier you you feel, the less it matters whether you win or lose, and the more like that fool card you can be. Now again, you see a lot of that fool imagery in that Kaidos, right.

So he's he's dancing on the razor thin edge of that cliff, right, and he's he's carrying the pack on his back, which kind of looks a lot like that that that uh that scale, right, and he's you know, he's followed by this dog character, which is kind of associated with Hecata right, the dog of Hekata, And you can see all of these symbols coming together to show you that unless you have that fool like mentality where you're just going out there and you're having a good

time and you don't care about the rest of the world's burdens, that's when you you can really embrace that kaidos. And so from the most positive aspect of this tiki instead of that negative aspect of uh, you know, tiki nemorensis or Tiki nemesis, you've really got the understanding of what it means to have this quality of life right, And I think that's that's what goes into a lot

of this luck. I don't know about you guys, but I've known some pretty stupid people who are pretty stupid lucky right, like they just fall into I mean, I hate to bring this up, but I knew this guy who kept getting scammed by people who would you call them up and promise him things, but he always made out the winner, even though they were scams. So he got a call from this scammer guy who wanted him

to take these MacBook pros. Right. This was back in the day MacBook pros were thousands of dollars and everything else, and he was supposed to then send them off to this guy. So I'm sure it was like a credit card scam where they were using somebody else's credit card and then they wanted to funnel this stuff to them so they could resell it. And so as soon as he got this package full of the MacBooks, the cops came to his door and they're like, you've been involved

in a scam. Do you realize that? And he's like, no, I had no idea, and they're like, don't worry about it, just keep the MacBooks. So he's involved in the scam, and the police him keep all of the ill gotten wares because you know, he didn't know what he was doing. And so you've got this kind of angle there, like he foolishly got involved in a scam. Normally the people who do that, you know, have everything taken from him.

But he was so innocent and like kinda kind of dumb that he actually made out the better for being scammed. And there's right, right, So if you know like that, you should bet on their horses. If they pick a horse, bet on that horse, because they're not overthinking it. They're more in tune with like the vibrations of the planet because there's nothing else going on upstairs. They're just they're just.

Speaker 4

I was when I was looking at the cornucopia relationship, I was thinking about a Dallist tale and uh, that really kind of of actually has a dynamic where it splits between two thieves. It might be called two Thieves or something. It's one of these really rich little metaphors to learn morality and opportunity, and really it metaphor depicts luck.

So well, there's the rich man and the poor man in this little village, and naturally, of course, the poor man observes the rich man, and he sees that he has all these people exchanging things with him, and he does work, but he doesn't really do that much work, and has all these resources and all this wealth, and he goes to ask him how can he become rich? And the rich man sees him and and he says, and he answers him he has the question and he and the rich man laughs and he says, I'll tell

you a secret. I steal everything. Ha ha ha, and and the poor man kind of goes, are you are you kidding me? Are you serious and and and leaves, and he actually does steal the property of another and gets in trouble and goes to prison, and as as it happens, he happened, he gets out. However long it is later and he's kind of angry at the rich man, and because he followed his advice, he thinks, and he's like, this guy, this guy's a total thief. He should be

in jail, like I had to go to jail. And he goes to see the rich man again and he tells him what happened to him. He said, I took your advice, and I stole a necklace from at this woman's place, and she got me in trouble, and I just spent the last year in prison. And the rich man says, what you fool, You actually stole from someone. Here's what I do. None of this stuff you see in here is mine. In the spring, I find turtles and I get their shells, and I exchange the turtle

meat for soup to make soup. And in the summer I harvest vegetables and I exchange this for that, and I get pheasants and so forth, and then et cetera. In the fall, I do my major harvest in the winter, I go to get big game because I can track them in the snow. So he goes through this seasonal explanation of how he works with nature and harvest off the land that is indeed none of it's his, and he ends up exchanging the resources for things that might become his.

Speaker 1

And that's what he meant by.

Speaker 4

The bye that he stole it, not that he actually

stole property. And so we see this kind of distinction I think, in a lot of different mindsets and cultures and given you know, what's what's a proper medium of abundance, rather to the kind of materialistic approach you know that is so commonplace now, where it's an over abundance and it doesn't matter how you got it so much as is important in that story, because you must pay consequences if you got it through a morale immoral paths, whereas if you're working with the land and so forth, all

of a sudden you do have this cornucopia, and it's very much like you know, you stole one turtleshell and then started trading things.

Speaker 1

Right. Well, the idea there, I think, is that all this stuff belongs to the gods and we're constantly stealing from their realms to make something. And this was a big part of the I guess you would call it the pagan religion, is that you didn't have to believe in these gods, but you did have to pay them in return for what you're taking from their realms.

Speaker 5

Right, So.

Speaker 1

What you'll find in all of these orphic hymns is that they'll always talk about being blameless. Right, let me live a blameless life. Because what they wanted to avoid was getting jinxd.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

We know that term, right, jinxd, but that jinx it was originally a Greek term. It was yanks and that yinks was Hecate's wheel, and Hecate's wheel is sort of that symbol of this wheel of fortune that is associated with tiki. And so the you know, the constant turning of the seasons, the constant changing of these different things requires you to bring offerings and say thanks for all

of the stuff that you've stolen throughout the year. And so they really didn't care which gods or goddesses you were making sacrifices too, just as long as you were doing it, because they didn't want to get the blame or the responsibility or the collective punishment if you were taking from nature and not giving back, you know. And so that sort of recognition was a way of keeping the idea of humoris in check, because it's really easy for you to be this masterful hunter, take all the

game and leave none for everybody else. But it takes a little bit more forethought and a little bit more humility to understand that you take enough for yourself and not too much. And basically, you don't get caught, right, You don't want to get caught, and getting caught would mean, you know, obviously overstepping your boundaries, knowing your place, knowing how you fit the world. So I threw up there in the comment section the picture of Hecate's wheel, if

you could bring that up. And what I found out a while ago is the guy who invented wheel of Fortune the game show was this guy named MERV Griffin, and MERV Griffin was a I believe he was initiated into the mysteries because.

Speaker 3

All of his.

Speaker 1

Game shows all seem to have this Greek origin. And so this hecatas wheel right here represented you know, this is the constant turning of the seasons, the constant you know, flicker of the light as it goes around our skies and as it's turning. This wheel of fortune is associated

with luck and superstition and everything else. And so, you know, Hecata is one of those interesting characters that really did get carried over into the the later Catholic sort of religion, because you could see on the Catholic flag these two big old keys coming into the middle. And those two keys where Hecate's keys before they were the Pope's keys,

but they represent the same thing. So Hecita has the keys to Hell, and the Pope is supposed to have the keys to Hell, and you can open it up and you know, see the underworld and all the rest of these things. And now those keys are being transferred over to the Catholic Church, and so the keys to having her hell. She moves between the world. She's got a lot of characteristics like Aramis or Hermes, and so you've got these ideas that are all wrapped up in

this sort of Hecates wheel and so wheel of fortune. Again, the Greeks were really really into their language, and so their language and their numbering system were also the same. They didn't have separate numerals for their numbers. They would just use their letters for those numbers as well, which is where you get this concept of isopsaphy or isopsaphy in Greek, which was their form of numerology. So all of the letters and all of the numbers were all

coming together in these things. And what do you see in a wheel of fortune. You've got the numbers representing all this money that you can win, and you've got all these letters scrambled up on the board that you've got to figure out what the meaning is between all these puzzles, right, And so merv. Griffin was part of a you know, Greek society coming up through college, and I believe he took a lot of what he learned in those Greek societies with him to make these game shows.

And you know, I think the Greeks would love those game shows. If you had the same kind of thing for the ancient Greeks, I think they would absolutely dig it because they were really deep into this concept of tiki and into the concept of kaidos. And as you're up there on the stage doing your thing, you know, that's you know, kind of represents a lot of their gaming prowess because you know, the first pair of dice came through the concept of tiki. It was dedicated to

tiki before everything else. And you've got these Romans who were constantly playing dice. They had what they called a dice tower, and so you know in the Bible they talk about the casting of lots. They had different ways of gambling, but one of the ways was to throw these dice into a Roman dice tower so that you couldn't cheat as the dice are falling down, and so it would scramble up the numbers as it's coming through. So the casting of lots, the you know, idea of fortune,

it was everywhere in the ancient world. I mean, how many times did you hear it? And you know the Bible talking about, you know, being associated with Jesus' stuff as he was dying, like the soldiers were casting lots for his robes and stuff. They would cast lots all

the time. This was part of the ancient world and how they divvy things up, because if you can't make the decision right there, you've always got a guy with a pair of dice ready to go, you know, And gambling and everything else was a major part of how they sought that now again, you know you've got gambling sort of being made to be banal. You've got cards, right. The tarot is a perfect example of this kind of

tiki associated with both gaming and fortune telling. And it's hard to deny the link between regular old playing cards and this idea of tiki. And this is the is the crossover, this is the linkage between it all, and they don't have to say it. It's right there in the cards. You know, you've got the Wheel of Fortune right there as a prominent feature.

Speaker 2

So you know, I want to ask you, I hate to kind of go backwards, but I mean you mentioned wheel of Fortune now, and that's kind of like you know, on the taro you mentioned the fool. You think it's quite possible that the scales in his hand was even Going back to the judgment.

Speaker 1

Corde absolutely well. That goes to the idea of this tiki nemesis, right. So what you have to do is you have to create this good balance between work and play. You have to create this good balance between you know, your family and your obligations. And if you don't, if you have this hubris, you're gonna throw the balance off like it's on a razor. Thin edge, so you have

to be conscious of it. It goes back into knowing yourself, and so the idea of judgment has that nemesis feel to it, because what you'll find in a lot of Greek mythology is that the implements of these gods will

carry over from one character to the other. So they'll call Athena the shield bearer of Zeus, and she's got on her shield, she's got Medusa, and Medusa was slain by Perseus, and this idea between Perseus slaying Medusa and giving it to Athena to put on this shield, the shield that I used to you know, approach her without looking directly at her because it had a mirror on the inside. And then the mirror itself goes back to Zagrias, and Zagrias had this inner dimensional mirror where he could

see between the worlds, you know. So between these ideas you start to get a much fuller picture based off of the holy implements that were then used in these mystery rights. So part of the mystery rights is you would go into these temple chambers where they would have these holy implements that you would have to understand as part of the initiation process. And I'm sure that was the same thing with the initiations you would go through

in the Oto. They would have these holy implements that you then had to understand so that you can get the full meaning of the initiation.

Speaker 3

Right.

Speaker 4

That is fascinating. What was it of Zagrias that he could peer into the world?

Speaker 1

So the mirror of Zagreas now wasn't his right, This was given to him by a different dimensional version of Hara. So Harah found out in a different dimension that Zagoras was actually the son of Persephone and Zeus. And so this Hera in a different dimension, figured out a way to deliver this mirror that would cause these Zagreuses to be drawn into her dimensions so that she could kill them for being the front of Zeus.

Speaker 2

Right, And so.

Speaker 4

Well, I was gonna say no, no, please continue.

Speaker 1

Sirry Zagarias. After he was killed, his heart was then taken by Athena and put inside of Zeus's leg so that he could rise again as Dionysus. So Zagorias Dionysus is a pretty common theme there. But here's the thing. If it's interdimensional and it encompasses all these different timelines, and what they were talking about with the mirror, is what happens if somebody made a different decision, because that

would spurred off another timeline. They were talking about this stuff in ancient Greece, right, they were talking about robots and ancient Greece. You know, they had all this sort of knowledge that's encoded into the stuff. So Zagorias would be looking through this mirror into these other dimensions where people made these other decisions, and this Hera character was trying to kill off all of the Zagreases and these

other dimensions because she knew his origin story. Zagoras didn't want to be in Hades anymore because he thought he was Hades's kid. He didn't want to be in the underworld. He didn't want to be in Tartarus anymore. He wanted to be on Mount Olympus. He didn't know why, but looking through this mirror, he got this impression that that's where he was supposed to be. Well, this interdimensional Hera

decided to take advantage of that and start killing them off. Well, if you look at Jesus, Jesus would be another interdimensional version of Dionysus. If you look at Osiris, he's another interdimensional version of Zagrias right, he's split apart, he's torn apart into pieces. So what you end up seeing there is that maybe they were discussing some kind of a deep spiritual principle behind this multidimensional consciousness that's in all

of these different narratives today. So, you know, people think that this multiverse idea is something.

Speaker 3

New, but it's not.

Speaker 1

It's not new at all. It goes back to really ancient versions of these Dinysis stories. And if you look at how Dionysus were born over and over and over again in all these different different cultures, it's hard not to understand that that goes back to the Dionysus origin story. You know, he's a multidimensional guy on different planes of consciousness.

And if these are a bunch of different timelines that are being smashed together, like they talk about with all of this glitch in the matrix story, maybe that's not something new. Maybe this has to do with some sort of cosmic weather. You know, as we're traveling throughout this galaxy, throughout the Solar System, maybe there are different forms of cosmic weather that are influencing how these timelines are merging

into each other. Maybe there's a version out there of this Cairos figure that is figuring out on a kind of an ai basis how to maintain the balance while also incorporating different timelines.

Speaker 4

Well, that is all fascinating. I was going to say that that whole story, I mean, beck in so many

like allegories and sci fi movies too. But it also makes me think of and I'm sure I'm not the only one, the tool that John d would use for his scrying right, and he obtained it apparently from Aztecs or somewhere in the Americas anyway, which and it had the same kind of idea, but but more so as what you were getting into what made me think You made me think about how they were really asking in the most profound, magical, if you wish manner, what if?

And it just made me think of that the power of asking what if we did this differently leads to such a developmental kind of orientation of like, we don't have to do it one way, we could do it the other way. We've we've thought about it a lot, and I think it's better to do it this way. So just kind of I feel like it has a

powerful effect on the psyche. If you will, and I think overall, even fortune or misfortune or you know, is it miss or miss I don't know, but the fickle nature of her really if for me, I think many

people might respond to it differently. I guess over time, but I think most people and myself, it makes me think of of being motivated to take action in a very scary, dangerous world where you could die real easy, but you're inspired to take action and overcome that fear because of the fickleness of Mischance, who has this weird nature and really so to humans in a way, has this weird nature to help those that help themselves right, And it makes me think of kind of the union

of martial and meditative arts, and even in this idea of luck and just a very human consciousness behavior idea is that we won't help someone who doesn't help themselves. If we see someone who's helping themselves were and they need help, we really are motivated to help them. If they are not helping themselves, we're not motivated.

Speaker 2

Oh damn, we lost them again.

Speaker 1

Oh well, well, yeah, I think it's your perception of luck that has a lot to do with the outcome of these things. And so this is goes back into superstition, like, well, why do you have the rabbit's foot? Don't ask why, just know that you have it. You know, why do you have the horseshoe. Don't ask why, just know that you have it. You've got the horseshoe, You've got the MacGuffin,

You've got the thing that does the thing. And as long as you believe it, then you're going to have that luck, right, because it's a way of subverting your antipathy or your you know, fear, because fear is the best way to get into that taichi Nemorensis or nemesis. Right, the more afraid you are, the more manifesting of fear you are in your life, and the more fear you have in your life, the more likely it is that

you're going to attract those things. So the depiction of Taiche throughout these different myths, sometimes they would refer to her as being blind, right, She's not blind necessarily, but she's seeing through your eyes. And then they would talk about how sometimes Tayche can can become overly board with whatever situation she's looking at. Want to change things up. I want to throw those dice to see what else she could throw in there. And that's that's a big

part of that, uh, that superstition as well. You know, uh, you have to be constantly on your toes. You have to be constantly vigilant to avoid upsetting her, you know what, Fortune will be upset at you. And so I think a lot of this, Uh, if you want to play that next video by the let me see what's it called the prayer to Fortune. Now, a lot of these orphic hymns, they were in Latin by the time we got them, and so you can see the prayer to Fortuna. You can see she's got that blindfold on head.

Speaker 4

Listen, can you remind us what what?

Speaker 5

What was played?

Speaker 4

Firstly? And is that orphic too?

Speaker 1

No, that was much later on. That was a whole poem because this guy was really feeling bad about himself and so he wrote that is you know, Fortune, you despicable tyrant. You're constantly beating us down. Is there anything we can do to get out from under this horrible judgment that you're constantly putting on us? And so, you know, it's like the lament of mortals. The more you see it from that, oh Fortuna perspective, the worst things get

for you. But that's why it's so like grandiose and so you know, oppressive, and you know everything else is because it's just it's difficult to deal with. And it's all about that perception.

Speaker 4

And talent. When you when you balance things like those scales, you can really enhance your perception.

Speaker 1

Right, right, those scales really have to do a lot with how you see the world and how how you're enjoying yourself, how you're enjoying your your time.

Speaker 7

Here self, approach strong fortune with propitious mind and rich abundance to my prayer. Inclined, placid and gentle. Hecity might be named Imperial Artemis, born of Pluto. Famed mankind's unconquered, endless praise is yours sepulchral, widely wandering power divine in you, Our various mortal life is found, and some from eucopious wealth abounds, while others mourn Your hand of verstablas in

all the bitter of deep distress. Be present, Goddess to we who worship you, and give abundance with a benevolent mind, Goddess of Fate, I call upon thee enter my circle and come to me you know every secret, and I'm eager to learn. Clear my paths and let your wheel turn. Bless my life with good luck and fortune. Fill me with spiritual and material wealth. Pluck the vibrating strings of destiny and fate. Approach strong fortune with propitious mind and rich abundance to my prayer inclined.

Speaker 1

So yeah, you can see a lot of goddesses and gods in there, like Artemis associated with fortune. Well, she's the huntress, right, and if you don't have that fortune out on the hunt, you're never gonna run across the deer that you can kill. I mean, it's very much entwined with all that stuff. And again plucking the strings of fate, well, you know the moid I or the you know the fates, they only had one eye between them. And she's got the blindfold on, so you can really

see how these implements are then coming together. The judgment card, she's got the blindfold on, right, blind judgment. Back to that same symbol you look up decay or the daughter of themis themis is the original one holding the scales with the sword and what you find in the amenities on nature. He talks about this woman with the scales and the well, he says, the woman with the sword guarding the temple of the Knight or the temple of Nicks.

And so he's talking about how fortune is also involved in being able to see the world for is what it really is. And everybody agrees that Parmenides was the start of this formalized philosophy, and when he made on nature, he formalized it in the phrase nature cannot contradict itself. And so this basic non contradictory worldview was inspired by this sort of vision journey that he took into this

palace of the night. Now, if you're not really up to speed on all of these different Greek symbols, you have no idea what he's talking about. But once you see all the symbols come together into this cornucopia of knowledge, right then you could start to understand exactly what he's

seeing and how it relates directly to these things. And again, all of these symbols are just jam packed into that taro because the people who studied these orphic hymns were trying to put it together in a way that would honor the gods, in a way that the gods were used to and the gods were used to being very heavily associated to these implements. So you've got the coins. Fortuna was all over Roman coins, right, because this is what you were trying to bring in, and you see

it in that hymn. There's constantly talking about please be propitious. Propitious means we offer you something to get something back. They're not talking about faith, they're talking about propitiousness. It's not about how much they believe in you. It's about how they can trade with you. Because you know, these ancient Roman and Greek religions were not about faith. It

was just this is what it is. And you really lose a lot of that when it gets kind of cultified into Christianity, where you have to believe to be a part, you have to believe. We don't believe that you're believing enough, you know, So it became that sort of mental thing instead of a physical thing. The physical act of bringing sacrifices to the temple, offering of what you've made, offering a part of what you've stolen from the land was important and it didn't matter if you

believed in them or not. What you wanted to do is you wanted to make the offerings so that they knew you appreciated them forgiving you all these different links, all these different ideas that came together in this form of energy that allowed you to get the thing. So if you've got a deer, you should offer part of it to the gods who allowed you to get that deer. It goes back to the moiitai or the fates. If it was your fate to receive that deer. You need

to pay the fates back. You know, if you're having a wonderful life, you need to be able to balance on those scales exactly what you need to give back to the gods so that they know you appreciate about it.

Speaker 4

It reminds me the idea of luck and dealing with the fates reminds me of kind of I don't want to call it New Age bs necessarily, but it's kind of as hearkens to that idea, which is kind of a dilution even from that poorly practiced Christian stuff. The notion when someone whenever someone says, oh the energy is off today, it's a bad the energy is bad today, or they're having a bad time that day, so they

say something akin to that. Uh, And I always want to say, or I always think by way of my own expression of that, not necessarily other people, but I always want to say to them. And I don't, you know, be it trying to try not to be confrontational, But no, am I still there? Nick just just moved on. What did you do yesterday to make the energy off today? Because when you're stable, when you're dealing with things properly, you you know, you don't you don't worry about the

energy that day. It's you know, what you did yesterday

really gets the fates going. And in in martial art practices and probably Buddhist titles and recognition, there's certain levels that one attains where essentially something can into sharp pointed our objects will not harm you, and you know, blunt weapon, we weapon, we will miss you, and the boulders will not fall on your head, and all these things that kind of you could read like luck, but also like maybe they're just kind of smart enough or practiced enough

at that point that they don't walk underneath a cliff fall, or don't go to the bar where there's going to be a knife fight, you know, is another idea, And to that martial art, I kind of correspondence in in uh. I believe it's a Japanese word, but this is in every martial art. Whenever you move or in every posture, there is a ski which is an opening, and so h one the idea is to kind of look the

opportunity that the opposition presents itself. And or when when considering fortuna or tichi uh, you you you want to really like roll with it and understand that that's your

best way, even when it seems kind of negative. I was also I was thinking about Boethius, right, who wrote The Consolation of Philosophy, and I think some people call him like the last Roman philosopher, right, because he was like kind of like after that Rome fell, you know, and Bollethius was stuck in prison, and I believe he was executed or maybe if is it fictional or nonfiction,

I forget if it was real. But Boethius is in prison and he writes the Consolation of Philosophy, philosophy being the embodiment of a woman in his mind, but really fortune, right, Philosophy and fortune kind of being the same thing in this Consolation of Philosophy, which has really got some great humor in it as well as its lessons. But there's a couple of little quick quote quotes on fortune which really kind of underlines what you've been saying.

Speaker 6

This.

Speaker 4

All fortune is good fortune, for it either rewards, disciplines, amends, or punishes, and so is either useful or just There's that justice and two other little quick ones. The greatest misery in adverse fortune is once to have been happy. Excuse me, Lady Fortune shows her constancy by being inconstant. Were she ever to stop the spinning of her wheel, she would no longer be fortune. So like the the Boethius consolation of philosophy, is a rich kind of aspect of all this as as it turns out.

Speaker 1

Right, and that really gets to the heart of it. You know, what are we doing? What are we learning from our fortunes? And that fortune of knowledge is something that can't be replaced. Once you've got the experience of the thing, you you then can use it or you don't learn from it, you know, and you end up repeating it. And so it really goes hard into that

realm as well. And I wanted to bring up spirits daimonis as the Greeks called them, because Aristotle talks about his daimonas which was a gas fly, and a gadfly is something that basically it's a fighting insect, right, and so Aristotle demones would always be there to whisper in his ear what he must not do, right, So it

kind of goes into that as well. It's like his fortune is to have this thing in his ear that would tell him not to do something, and so it's it's kind of that idea of riding that fate, that that wave. Maybe having a little bit of that understanding of the spirit world goes into your fate as well. And so this goes back to knowing yourself and if you know yourself and you have those connections with these daimones. Daimonis is just the generic term in Greek for spirit,

but it got turned into demons. Obviously, we're not talking too much about those those demons that other people have carried with them. When it comes to you know, why does God hate me?

Speaker 4

You know?

Speaker 1

Why is God punishing me? It's the same idea, it's the fortunes. Why am I afflicted by these demons? Well? Is it your are you learning from it? Or are we stuck on the wheel?

Speaker 6

You know?

Speaker 1

Are we giving ourselves over to the wheel because we're not learning from it? And in a lot of ways, I think that knowing yourself gets you more in touch with the daimonas is because the Greeks had this this ability that we don't have today, which is where they would know the difference between the voice in their head and the voice of the gods. They would know the difference between a prophetic dream and just a regular run

of the mill, crazy craziness dream. Now could that be because of their cultural connection to the land and their cultural connected connectedness to these ideas that allowed them to have the fortune to build things like the Parthenon and build these you know, beautiful things that have survived to this day. And what are we what are we doing if we don't have a little bit of an eye to that, to that fortune as well, because to look at what they accomplished and what we're going through today,

it's like, how could these things even mesh up? Maybe that idea of the fortunes and being connected to these daimonas. The daimonas were then converted in the Bible to the princes and powers of the air. So you had the Greek daimonas that was talked about in the Seven Nations, right, and so this Greek daimonis was given, you know, a name and talked about as this evil, oppressive principle of this foreign people.

Speaker 3

Right.

Speaker 1

Well, I'm not saying it's wrong, because that that uh, that term, that idea was originally coming from that Greek concept of understanding that these different people with these different cultures would end up having a different perspective based off of the words they use and all the rest of these things that would add up together to make that culture,

you know. So, yeah, there is a difference in these these different peoples based off of these cultural factors and based off of these familial bonds and all the rest of these things, how they looked at their ancestors that would add up to that fortune seeing things a different way. But when everybody's evil except for me, it starts to get a little bit into that realm of is this cultural narcissism, you know, And we have to understand that in the Old Testament, the word that they used for

nations was goyam, and goyam means cattle. So they were looking at these other seven nations and they called them all cattle, right, And that doesn't really translate well if you're looking at the original text versus what they call them now, because they weren't called nations, they were called the goyam. So that's a little bit of an insight there as to what cultural narcissism really comes across as so, and they're talking about us, you know, they weren't talking

about other people. They were talking about us as cattle. And we keep saying this stuff from the Old Testament over and over again and having it influence our culture. I think that dimonas of everybody sucks but me is kind of getting stuck, and maybe we should be aware of it, because I don't think that's good. I don't think cultural narcissism is good either. I think what we should do is be looking towards the balance. Maybe we shouldn't be viewing ourselves in that perspective. We should have

a more balanced perspective. That's where you get a lot of the ideas of nobility from right, because nobility seeks balance, seeks order, seeks justice. Right, that's what the idea of the most noble in your society, the elites, they would be looking towards those principles so that they could have more harmony, right, The ideas of justice and harmony really

go hand in hand. These are implements. On one hand, You've got the harp, and you can't play the harp if it's not balanced, you know, if it's not in tune. So if you're not thinking about the ideas of justice and harmony, you're really missing out. You're going to have a disharmonious, disordered society. And that's a hard thing to balance.

You know. That goes back to the razor blade. You know, that razor blade that Kaidos is holding is a very very hard thing to balance a scale on, especially if you're loading up that scale with all the things that you've done over the years. But you know, I think this is a this is a really interesting topic that gets really off and overlooked because, yes, it's not out there in anything other than the symbols we use. Think about all the symbols that they use on a slot machine.

What do the cherries mean? Right? What does the bar mean? What does bar mean? Why is it there? You've got all the coins, We know what the coins mean. That's a jackpot, right, But some of the other symbols in there are incomprehensible, but they're so obvious, they're so in your face, and they get used over and over again. Is this is this like the jinks? Are we being jinxed here?

Speaker 5

You know?

Speaker 1

Because jinks can be a good or a bad thing according to you know, the myths of Hecate the wheel could be you know, very good or it could be very bad. So what are we sort of bringing into our lives? And do we understand it? We go to those one armed bit. I know a lot of people who go to the casino all the time? Seven seven seven? What's what's that mean?

Speaker 3

You know?

Speaker 1

They don't have threes on the bandit? Yeah, everybody's saying it.

Speaker 4

I saw, I saw that they frequently referred to tyche or for tuna, as isis tichy, and isis for tuna, right, of course, beckoning to Egyptian traditions. And and one one thing I think the Greeks were obsessed with, and that's why time, the different aspects of time and of course fortune they were so compelled by and obsessed with. Even is right, that sense of order that not isis But Mahat was more symbolic with as the teacher of.

Speaker 1

And I believe she was.

Speaker 4

She was spoke in terms of negation, and you made sure that one did not do a thing. Uh as you were describing, Uh, the god whispering into the ear telling the person.

Speaker 2

Not this is what not to do.

Speaker 4

It's kind of like, uh, reminds me of a tale of a guru, a teacher and a guru and excuse me, a student and a guru and the student wants to learn the mantra to become enlightened, and the guru can't be bothered with this, you know, for a long time, and finally he says, okay, okay, I'll tell you ghana podme, but do not ever think of a monkey when you say this. And so, you know, whatever the mantra was, I forget, but the point being, uh, you know, he tols him, tells him the mantra, and then not to

think of something. And of course you're just never gonna get away from that.

Speaker 1

Uh, don't think of the purple elephant. Yeah, eat them. I just told you. Don't think of the purple elephant.

Speaker 4

Purple elephants for days now.

Speaker 1

Right, don't think of anything. But what Mario was saying there symbolic studies is like all of these things started out as divination. They still are. You're testing your fortune by putting the money in the slot that determines your fate, whether you're going to be.

Speaker 4

I was going to say to you that I think maybe one reason that there's the tendency for our culture, maybe cultures at large, because they kind of we as humans all have this potential and governments and churches seem to enforce it, or ever so subtly when when there is a connection, right like with this isis and Tuna, it beckons to all these wonderful traditions being connected. And therefore, like you know, the monotheist mindset wants to say, oh, this is the first book and we don't have anything

to do with all that. Of course they don't say that literally, but they like to infer that.

Speaker 1

Right even though casting of Lots is all over that book, that had to come from somewhere, and talking about it now makes you realize it was a lot more divine than just divvying up pieces of clothing. It was a lot more connected to the polytheism of the time, reflected even in the language than what we're being led to believe. It wasn't just gambling this was religion, you know, and understanding that changes the concept of gambling, it really does.

And the people who have kept that mindset they're the ones rigging the machines. And this is why they put their symbols all over the money, is because they want you to know who controls that money and it ate you. You're the one. You're a fortune's fool, right and so yeah, that that that kind of angle, there is something that should be respect. You've got to keep away from those systems that are rigged if you're ever going to win anything in life. And it goes back to the idea

of that Cairos. If you're not doing what you want to do, you're somebody else's slave. Really does come down to it just as simple as that, if you're not doing what you want to do, you're essentially somebody else's puppet. And you've got to find that balance to get to the place where you can finally say, this is the Kaidos I'm looking for. This is this is the God that I'm grabbing a hold of. And you've got a plan for it because he's coming and once he's gone,

you can't grab the back of his head. He's bald back there, there's nothing to hold on to. He just said, no, whisk right on, Bayya. That's why he's got those wings on his feet. It's that symbol of swiftness. It comes and goes as quickly as it comes. But I think, uh, there's a lot more to talk about. But you know, I'm just on my journey, starting out, trying to understand this stuff a little bit better. And I think there's a there's an essence there that I think everybody can

resonate with. You've got to find the Cairos before you can understand tikey, and that is something I'm looking for. I'm looking for that Cairos. Let's get on that path. You know, he's beaten the trail around you. You've you've met him before, You've seen him. Like you were talking about, the only way that you can have a bad time is if you've had a good time. The only way you can condemn yourself to that that bad time is by knowing what the good times feel like?

Speaker 2

Right?

Speaker 1

Good? Did you give you something to appreciate?

Speaker 2

Ethan? Was there anything?

Speaker 6

Uh?

Speaker 2

Is there anything else that you wanted to say?

Speaker 4

I don't think so. It's a fascinating topic. I did uh kind of read or gather that when she dies, she turns into two goddesses, two other goddesses, which has that polarity that we've been suggesting, and that is in the chronos and chiros, and you know this negative consequences or positive consequences.

Speaker 1

So I just maybe maybe it's a separation from the fullness, right the pleroma, and you get that a lot in the ideas of gnoscissism too. It's the separation that all of this stuff really breaks down at. And so maybe we should be looking at it from a more full perspective. You know, you've got to merge the two and understand their importance so that you can get that fullness of perspective. But negative and positive, Yeah, are you good at this? Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 4

And b like Boetheists, you know, just know that our fates is ultimately sealed. There's a zen cone too that reminds me of life is about celebrating the departure of a boat that is doomed to sink, and so Boetheists being stuck in prison and just finding this this consolation of philosophy right, ultimately that the lessons that we learned, you know, are real the key you know what?

Speaker 2

Well, Oh go ahead, It's something I wanted to add real quick. And I'm wondering if like this is like somehow kind of like telling a story or something that maybe might make sense to you one of you guys. In Twin Peaks season three, Cooper comes back kind of like through a light switch, and some of some of the guy ends up like kind of like just disappearing.

And then Cooper comes back through a light switch in the room that this other dude disappears in, and it's like kind of like the guy that was there was like a different version of Cooper, and now Cooper's like, you know, some other person, And long story short, you end up finding out that I guess the girl was a prostitute, So like now you kind of got like somebody with a whore or whatever, if you want to

start looking at it like that. And she gives him like a ride, and like now he's like totally like stupid, Like he doesn't even know how to talk, he doesn't have to speak, he's just like following her around. She puts him in the car, they start driving. I did notice in Totally Cross Sycamore street. He doesn't even say

a word. Then he starts speaking. I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but basically she ends up dropping him off at a casino and then when he goes in there, every machine has this flame above it, and if he goes over to it and plays it, he wins. And he was like showing other people. I think he showed a couple other people like to play that one because I had like a little thing on it early at a triangle, something above the machine that only he could see. He knew what he was gonna win.

Speaker 1

It's the full card, it's zero. You know, he's coming into existence and then he can he can sort of command fate. So there's that innocence or naivity of coming into form and then being able to see all of the spiritual markers that would lead you to this fake idea. And she's the one who brought him there. Maybe she was the concept of this, this horror being associated with tiki would kind of make sense, you know.

Speaker 2

And you know what's good, you know, you know it's crazy that the chick and this this had to have been on purpose, because if you even if you start thinking of like kind of like coming back into existence and needing feminine energy to check herself was black. She was wearing purple, and she drove a yellow jeep. That's all Saturn colors right there, right. It was so weird.

Speaker 1

Yeah, moving moving from the outside to the inner. And there is that concept too of this sort of alchemical nature of the energies of the universe condensing down into physical form. So we think of life springing from the planet, but really it's all these energies that are condensing down into the planet that is forming the society. Yeah, beginner's luck.

How many times have we heard that, you know? And so there is that idea of being close to this naivety or this nation state gives you this kind of luck, just kind of get you hooked, get you.

Speaker 4

And not thinking of that monkey, right, because when you're a beginner and you're innocent, you don't know the failure and it's not even in your and it's not even in your mind to manifest from your mind, so you only think about like, oh, I'm just gonna do this backflip.

Speaker 1

Yeah, teacher, any good teacher is going to want you in a nation state before they start teaching you. Because if you've got your head full of all these other ideas that you know, cloud your vision. They want a pure nation state before they teach you that you can't have any other pollution there.

Speaker 4

This meat might be a little bit esoteric, and I don't know if it's tangential or not, but there is the symbol of Father Time and the Virgin, and and it's very hair oriented. And this whole, the whole hair symbolism that has been a strand excuse the pun, through through this whole discussion. He father Time is playing with the Virgin's hair, and Father Time of course being associated with Saturn, so it's a it's also a very hidden, supposedly Freemasonry symbol, so was making making for.

Speaker 1

Where you're talking about that. So you've got this Virgo character and then Father Tom is right behind her, and he's got the sickle in his hand and he's touching her hair exactly exactly. I mean, that's the symbol for fates right there. So you've got the strands of fate in your hand. And it turns out that hair is actually piezo electric as well, so it carries sort of this the stress that you've got in your body. You know,

can cause your hair to fall out, you know. So the idea there is that these fates are intimately linked with how you perceive the world.

Speaker 4

And she's reading a book too, and which has all kinds of you know, Ad Jason symbolism, the Book of Life.

Speaker 1

And so forth. So absolutely so much imagery that they're trying to condense down into that that one form, you know. And I think this goes back into dreams as well. If we really want to get a handle on our fates, we've got to understand our dreams a little bit better.

And you can see all throughout the years, these the fates are always connected to these prophetic dreams that we have, and you know, you have to kind of understand the information being transmitted in dreams so that you can get a better grasp on your fate and where you belong in the world. I think bridging that gap is what we can do by knowing ourselves better. Right, And Virgo is often seen holding the cornucopia or holding a bunch

of you know, staves of grain. I'm not sure if it would be called staves, but you know, the stalks of grain. So Virgo is very, very linked to this this wheel of fortune and this fad idea. But you know, all these all these symbols seem to condense and come back together again. It's almost like we're not looking at symbols, We're looking at sort of the water, and as it flows between these symbols, you can understand them better because

the replacement is how they are interpreted. And this would go back to the idea of the ship, you know, the argo and all of those things sort of coming together and having this idea of to have balance is to have that rudder of the ship and to be able to control it. And the rudder is also a symbol of Tiki, right, the winds of fortune, the winds of fate steering that ship is also associated with that

Tiki goddess. But it's so it's so intrinsic and it's so connected to all these things that you know, it's it's hard not to understand how it applies to everyday life here for us, but you have to kind of put the pieces together to really understand it. Yeah, that virgo hair, that's the hair of fate and what the hair weave is strong. Absolutely, you know, it's it's kind of funny. For some reason, it just popped into my head.

Have you ever seen those videos of the guy who's got the leaf blower and he comes up behind these women who have an obvious weave on, and then he just points it out and he blows their hair off. They run down the street try to pick up their hair. It's that same kind of pool slash teaky sort of narrative going on there. You know, the hair is your fate. But I think this is a good episode. I mean it's a little bit short, but.

Speaker 2

Oh no, this is actually perfectly.

Speaker 6

Yeah.

Speaker 2

I prefer episodes actually the short, but it just never works out that way.

Speaker 1

Just keep going weave.

Speaker 4

It's such a real fascinating topic and the lessons are very inspiring, I find so that was that was awesome.

Speaker 1

Very tied to all of these symbols. We know, but do we know where they come from? And once you do, you could see how they're all linked together, and how they were worshiped and practiced and all the rest of this stuff. You know, these are these are the things that make up the Western perspective. And if we don't have the ability to take hold of these concepts, we're gonna be faithfuol. You know, there's some good, good stuff in nations. You know, maybe if we didn't know this

stuff would be better off and be luckier. Who knows, have more beginner's luck. Yeah, well you wouldna finish this out there.

Speaker 2

Nick, Yeah, sure, sure real quick for the people that are catching it live now, maybe people that might rewatch the live because this won't be out before Friday, at least for me. For the people watching Thursday, you know whatever. Thursday. Yeah, we're gonna have Mario on the Occult Rejects and it's gonna be us again with a couple extra people. And last time I went real well, so keep an eye

out for that. Headless will probably restream that on his end. Unfortunately, I have a strike and that's why I'm not streaming live right now, so keep an eye out for that. We will be streaming live with Mario Thursday night. It's gonna be a bunch of us and it should turn out really well because the last time we had the whole Occult Reji crew there, it actually went really smooth and there was a lot of information, and this one's gonna be Mercury, so you know, it's gonna get wild.

There's gonna be a lot of stuff so keep an eye out for that. Uh and thank you headless. This was a great topic. It was really interesting. Again, I knew I didn't even know who this person was when you text me. I had a I googled the person.

Speaker 1

I was like, oh, yeah, but you met before.

Speaker 2

I know what you say for sure. But thank you very much man. It was again it was It was kind of by surprise and it worked out really well. Looked like the chat enjoyed it too, Ethan. Thank you so much, man. It was such spur of the moment. I asked you like literally hours beforehand, and he's like, sure, yeah, I think I can add something else.

Speaker 1

Thank you.

Speaker 4

I'm always honored to talk with you, guys.

Speaker 2

I love I love yeah, yeah, no, I love always getting you on with this man. It's always great to hear your point of view of stuff, of stuff. It's what's appreciate it, like everybody else that we have on. So yeah, US three and a couple other people will be on with Mario Thursday night and uh yeah, that's the end of another I guess cult rejects and until the next one, everybody be well later.

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