You see something's going to happen.
What what's gonna happen?
I think.
What I help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects this episode. I got the Spiritual Gangster Teresa with me co hosting, and I also got my boy Mike Magic Mike as some people may know of him. I got all of them coming on with me today on The Occult Rejects, and we got to guest. Uh, you know, I always love having this guy on. We always have amazing chats and uh yeah, I mean he's even inspired me to start doing stuff in filming. I think he does amazing work.
You know, I really can't say enough. We got called the Crusher on with us tonight. But before we get to them, I do want to let Teresa and Michael Lisa plug themselves. Teresa, let everybody know where they can find you, and you know, all your other stuff or whatever you want to plug.
Sure.
Thanks.
So yeah, people can find me on the Spiritual Gangsters podcast, which is YouTube and all the usual places people listen to podcasts, and also on Instagram and x at t s gangster spot.
Thank you very much, and I'm pretty sure your links are still on my link tree. So if people want to go check out his stuff. Her links are in there, and Mike, I guess I mean real quick, if you want, you can plug your social media and whatever shows that you've been on that you'd like to promote.
Yeah, if you want to get a hold of me Magic with two k's, Mike with two k's and two e's at x dot com. Yeah, I'm sorry, I've been on Subconscious Realms in the Day's Radio and Threshold Saints with our friend, So.
Check it out.
Definitely, you would just dropped. Did you just drop on gins recently? You did? Right?
Yeah, that one's drop Yeah.
I think like a week or two or ago. Yeah. Nice. Nice, Yeah, so people go definitely go check that out. And no, Magic Mike does not have an only fins. Sorry, don't go.
By that name.
You'd probably assume you would, right, Yeah, sorry to disappoint.
You, ladies.
My goodness. But now finally finally to the guest, my man call again, thank you so much for coming back on. Can you please let everybody know because I'm sure there's new listeners since the last time you've been on. Let everybody know, like what your deal is and who you are.
Yeah, I go by Carl Crusher. My real name is Carl Andreson. I'm a full time filmmaker, YouTube content creator, and I just explore the mysteries of UFOs paranormal locations, places like Skinwalker Ranch, Area fifty one, Project, Hestlin and Norway all over the place now cently a lot of stuff to.
Do with drones and all that.
You know, a lot of my life story comes up in the mix of all of that and research and everything too.
So it's been really interesting.
It wasn't. Thank you very much, Carl. Yeah, I at least suggest to go check out his channel. He has some real amazing work out there. This some stuff that I've seen him post and I'm just like, yo, I don't even know what the hell that is like to me, it's some real wild paranormals, some sort of evidence. Guys got stuff on the film. Definitely go check it out. And I'll just be honest with you. Just this guy in a fake either so you know, this is my opinion.
So that's some real weird shit he's got on film. So yeah, if you're into the whole skin Skinwalker Ranch, also Mount Wilson you've been to, and plus plenty of other places yeah, check it out. Uh yeah, of course, of course, I know we might end up getting into the drones. Maybe I'm finally gonna kind of get you on for a topic. I think it was the last two times I was gonna have you on, but then you ended up having stuff that I was like, Oh,
we got to talk about this instead. Finally kind of got you on to talk a little bit about I guess you know your experience with Mormonism. I know that you have mentioned on the show before. It's never been something you've hidden. You've always been open about being the next Mormon. Uh. And I guess maybe maybe some of the listeners maybe don't remember or whatever, but uh, or
even really even heard you mention it. But maybe if you don't mind, I mean, maybe we can go into, like I guess, a little bit of how you got into it, and then I guess, you know, wherever you want to go from there, tell you a story however it goes.
Yeah.
So, I mean specifically being I was born as a member of the the what they refer to.
They're very specific.
They want you to call them the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. They don't like being called Mormons. But that's like a new thing because when I was growing up and all through high school, the current president of the church and the prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, he was all proud of it, and he had an entire campaign called Meet the Mormons and Mormon dot org and they had tired documentaries about Mormonism and being proud of
that name. And then there was kind of some infighting between the leadership and when so when Hinkley died and the new prophet was sustained Nelson, he went on this whole campaign to undo all that and saying that that we cannot replace the name of Jesus by nicknames with Mormonism and all that, we have to stick with the
official name. But a lot of that came down to just like the legal legalization of the corporate logo and name so that they could control their their trademarks and things, and when you look into it, actually, but yeah, I was born and raised in the in the Mormon Church, and it was just kind of an interesting thing because my like we've talked about how I'm involved in the paranormal research and UFOs and abduction studies and all that kind of paranormal phenomena, and so being raised as a
member of the Mormon Church, there was always this divide. There was a gulf in between what I was personally experiencing in my own life when I would go to bed at night, or when I was over at my friend's house or whatever that did not fit with kind of the teachings and the way that I was taught.
And I mean, some of it makes sense because Mormonism they definitely believe that there is extraterrestrial life and that the spirit world and ghosts and the spirits of the dead or right here among us, And that was all baked into me. Like the Mormon Church, they're very active and even doing like temple work and rituals for the salvation of dead souls, like all of the big temples
that they build for billions of dollars. Millions of dollars they construct these temples everywhere is specifically for members of the church to go in there and to do rituals for dead spirits. And they believe that those spirits are there witnessing the rituals or participating or even joining in them. And so this whole idea from my upbringing that there was this invisible spirit world around us, and all of that was all kind of baked into me, but that
still didn't make sense. Like when I would have an experience in my bedroom at night what you would consider like a classic abduction scenario that didn't jive.
It didn't really fit.
The entities that I was encountering didn't make any sense to what I was being taught at church.
And so what happened with that, Like when I would have a.
Sleep paralysis incident, I would wake up like paralyzed in my bedroom and I can just look around and I would sense that there was like an entity in the corner, sometimes even see them and have these whole bizarre experiences.
And what the church gave me to deal with.
That, as far as the teachings, was that something was wrong with me, like I was a bad kid, like I had committed a sin, or I had done something wrong, and so these evil spirits were now going to torment me. So the advice that I was given when I would try to bring this stuff up what was happening was basically make sure to say your prayers, read your scriptures, and ultimately, for me personally, that was very unreliable and didn't prevent anything from happening any of the experiences from
happening in my life. And then as I got older, you know, a lot of the now in my current research.
When I go out and I study ancient history, the Native American indigenous people groups and their clans and teachings, and I started looking at that history, I realized that the foundations of the Church were in direct conflict with that, and that when the Mormon Church, through Brigham Young, moved west, they exterminate, exterminated a lot of Native American tribes and got involved in the in the trafficking of them and slave trading and all that, and so that really was
in conflict with who I am and my personal beliefs and all of that.
Can I ultimately real quick before I went too far, just because I know I have read into it and I'm wondering, I've came across something. I'm wondering if maybe you happen to know about it. Do you ever remember do you know about the Meadow Mountains Massacre?
Yeah, that's just like about thirty minute drive from my house here. Yeah, I've done a video there before, I've even gone and done paranormal investigating in that spot.
As yeah, a terrible tragedy.
So what happened was when the when the Mormon Pioneers moved west and they set up in the Salt Lake Valley that was technically Mexico Territory still it wasn't even part of the United States yet, and so they basically moved in and the Church inserted themselves right next to the Tempanogus tribe, the Ute tribe, the Northern Paiute, and the Shish and basically just built a city right in the middle of these tribes that had been there for ten thirteen thousand years, you know, and started to build
a community. And they were afraid because their founder, Joseph Smith had just been murdered in Carthage prison back in Navu. They were afraid that like the army or other haters of the Church were going to come into Salt Lake Valley and like cause a war or wipe them out
or whatever. So the Mountain Metals Massacre happened because there was a caravan of wagons coming from Arkansas and they were headed to California and they were just family of you know, gold prospectors, settlers, farmers, and there was women and children and everything. But these Mormon pioneers in the community out here out north of Islands in Saint George
and Utah. They saw the caravan coming and thought that an assumed that they were enemy scouts or part of the US Army coming to scout out the Salt Lake Valley to stage in attack. So Brigham Young basically ordered a group of soldiers and militia to go down and
wipe them out, and they did. They basically dressed up in costumes and pretended to be the Piute, so they dressed up like Native Americans, and then they surrounded the wagon train, murdered all the men, assaulted the women, and then they separated the women and the men and the kids, and then they basically human trafficked and put all the
kids into families up in Salt Lake City. So there's actually living families in the state of Arkansas right now who are still upset because there's branches of their family that were basically human trafficked and became part of the Mormon culture because their children were abducted and raised by Mormon families up in Salt Lake.
And that's not the only time that happened.
The Battle at Fort Utah was an entire tribe of the Tempanogas tribe was completely exterminated, and where that happened is exactly where BYU University was built. So when you watch Brigham Young football and the BYU football team plays football every year, that football stadium is literally built in the parking lot right on top of where they slaughtered like a band of an entire tribe of Native Americans that had been living there for thousands of years. And
they don't like to talk about that. So when I run into that stuff, it didn't fit with who I was. But obviously when like when I was a kid growing up, I had no idea. So by the time I was like eight to ten years old, I was fully in the church, believed that it was true, had this entire alternative version of what American history even was, who the
Native American people were. I was raised and taught that all people with dark colored skin had brown skin or black skin because of a curse, and that they had to join the church to relieve the curse and to become white again, and all this kind of stuff. But see, I was like raised in that culture just like you would get raised on an island, and had no idea of the outside world. This was before the internet, you know, so just like in a little village in Idaho, had no idea that any.
Of that wasn't true.
So even at a young age, I was doing these rituals for the dead in the temple and.
Involved in service projects for the church.
And I mean my neighbor family and friends of mine were part of the Indian adoption program in the eighties when they were still human trafficking Native Americans in the nineteen eighties and stuff. And anyway, my whole childhood was like basically steeped in that. It took me my whole life to kind of figure out that that it wasn't true and to kind of get out of it.
And Mormons don't look at it that way.
They're like, you can leave any time that you want, but there's so many layers and levels of family pressure, spiritual pressure, all of that stuff to where it makes it almost impossible.
Like if you leave the church, you're.
Never going to get into heaven, You're not not going to be with your family together forever or any of that.
There's all these you know, punishments that incur if you leave.
So technically I'm now as an ex Mormon, considered in like an anti Mormon because I'm like against the corruption and all the things that happened. But yeah, it's been the been an interesting road to try and sort out from my childhood all the way up.
So yeah, we can.
Talk about any of that that you want. We can get into the temple stuff.
Or the weird some of this. Yeah, participated in question.
Cool, Yeah, Mike, you go ahead.
Well, it was just gonna ask about so Salt Lake City and I know there's a lot of legends and why they settled that area and they were looking for ancient civilizations and they believe is it true that they believed that that was a place in the ancient past that had some huge city on it or something is out of a legend.
Kind of there's some weird levels to that. Like they believe that the entire like American continent, North and South America, is that the history is completely alternative than what everybody
else believes. So the Mormon Church, they their primary book of scripture is called the Book of Mormon, and I don't know if you actually know what that is, but basically they believe that while everything was going on in the Bible over in the area of like Egypt and the Middle East, in Jerusalem, and all the events were happening over there during the biblical times that simultaneously there had to have been people.
We're here in the American continent, and where is their book of scripture? How come?
How come like Jesus was only born and visited the people over in Israel. How come he didn't visit and teach the people? Does he not care about the indigenous people here? So the idea is that the founder of Mormonism, when he was a young man, was basically guided by visions and an angel and actually doing like remote viewing with a rock and a hat like a seerstone. He was doing occult rituals and channeling these spirits and God
and angels and all these things. And he claims that he was guided to a hillside where this book of gold was buried, where these ancient people who lived in America buried this book. And it's in upstate New York,
on the on the hill Camorra they call it. And anyway, the story is that so he goes there, follows the vision and sure enough finds the book buried in the ground in a box and it's a book made of gold pages, and it's written in this reformed Egyptian and then he uses the rock and a hat and translates it from this Egyptian language and reformed mixed Hebrew Egyptian into English, and now it's the true history of North and South America and the Native American people that he
found buried in the hillside in upstate New York. And the story of that book is supposed to be about a family that basically leaves Jerusalem in six hundred BC. They build a boat, they come over on the ocean land in somewhere like Guatemala, and then they become all of the Native Americans, and or not all of them, but they used to teach that they were all the Native Americans, the principal ancestors, they said. But now they
just say, oh, they were among the Native Americans. But the whole book is supposed to that's what they claim. They're one of the lost tribes that Lehi and his family came over ended in America. And then as they spread there was two groups, like the righteous group and the wicked group. Because the family like split in half, and the people that became wicked all got cursed with brown skin and became the Native Americans.
That we know today.
That's the story of the whole book. That's how the white people and the brown people through the whole book go to war. The white people are the righteous ones, the brown people are the ones with the curse. And the entire books about the white and the browns fighting each other. Yeah, there fights in the uh N fights and lamani its, you know, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always found that interesting too, with lamb in there. I don't know, there was it was there was a lot of weird things believing in that. When I was looking into when you know, Mormonism started popping up and skimwok a Ranch we were recovering Skinwalking Ranch. There was a lot of weird things that almost seemed like like I wondered if Alista Crowley actually like ripped off shit from like Mormons. It was just really weird
how I started seeing certain things. I was like, this connection is uncanny.
Yeah, the same kind of like, uh, well, Joseph Smith was doing an Okian magic and the Mormons don't know that. Like I didn't realize that until I was out of the church a couple of years, and I started looking into remote viewing and telepathy and different research like that, and I came across.
Uh Ed Kelly.
And uh Man, I can't remember the other guy's name, John, but they h John Lee, Yeah, and they uh John D Yeah, and they John D and Ed Kelly.
You're right.
And they developed a Nokian magic where you basically look into a crystal ball or a stone, and they uh would channel these entities or aliens that they believed were angels, and ultimately they ended up cheating on each other's wives. One of them went to prison and then died jumping out of a window.
And then all that same thing happened. Joseph Smith con holy.
Crap, there is some weird there's some weird connections like that only crap.
But a rock and a hat used it, just like an Okian magic was channeling to translate ancient texts.
Just that that I had already realized. Yeah it was. He was basically scrying in.
A hat, scrying in a hat, yeah, and then aimately marrying little kids, cheating on his wife, having multiple affairs, and then gets murdered jumping out of prison window, just like just like Ed Kelly did.
Yeah, And that glass that day, were you using just scrying? A lot came from the Aztec Empire, came from on a zuma John.
D Yeah, wasn't it.
There was a little connection there too.
It was wasn't it a black obsidian mirror? Yep? I think it was a black mirror, like an obsidian mirror.
Joseph Smith used a brown searstone and the church still has it today. The current prophet today, President Nelson, has made videos where he's pulled it out and shown it on camera and even kind of demonstrated.
How it used to be used.
And yeah, so I don't know, maybe Joseph Smith actually was doing like remote viewing or a scrying and tapping into that occult magic. But the truth is is that you're not talking to angels from heaven when you're doing that stuff. You're talking to trickster entities, the same kind of stuff you run into at same lock a ranch and whatnot. That's going to lead you down a certain path, to make you think that you're getting answers to your questions and like you're the chosen one, and ultimately they
puff up your ego and then tear you down. It's like a whole they call it the trickster phenomenon now, and I think that's ultimately what happened to him.
So I was going to ask you, Carl, like, do you still have the sleep paralysis now?
Did you grow out of that or like, well, it's more intentional now, Like now I use the sleep paralysis intentionally as a tool. When I was a kid, it was something that would just happen to me. I would go to bed and I couldn't anticipate it or predict it. There was just certain nights where I would have the experience and then go like out of body and exceed these things and have these encounters. And now I specifically do like gateway meditations to initiate those when I have
the paralysis. It's like a launching point to go out of body into.
Okay, yeah, so you're able to like use it more. I was gonna say, I'd be very curious to like take a pull of Mormons and see how many Mormons have suffered from that, because I'm just wondering, like you said, they're like, say your prayers more, do this do that?
I'm like, but are the prayers the thing that is opening the door to the entities and to the sleep paralysis because maybe you know, if they're set up by Joseph Smith and then in tradition like passed down and he was, you know, contacting whatever he was contacting, maybe it's like just making the problem worse. I don't know, it could be saying.
I found personally that like Mormons are very ritualized, and they're very systematic, meaning like even the way that they pray, when they pray at church and all that is very patterned, like there's a specific beginning, a formula that you follow, and like an ending how you're supposed to do it. And what I ultimately found was that like the way that I was taught to pray in the Mormon Church is a lot of like asking, needing, begging kind of,
and ultimately I've realized is like a negative energy. So like if you're into manifestation and stuff like that, it's almost like a roadblock. So the way that Mormons teach you to pray, it's almost more like a deadener or a roadblock. As soon as I got out of that and started doing more like transcendental meditation, it changed everything that was way more connected than the Mormon prayer was for me, you.
Know, it's interesting that you say that, Sorry, it's interrupted to reason. It's interestingly did you say that, because you know, I've made kind of comments about that with doing rituals in magic. You know, if I'm going to be constantly invoking like Hath or toth risis and asking them to do something and like giving them stuff and you know, talking to them for twenty minutes, you know, this big poetic thing I'm asking you to help me with, Like, am I still a slave?
Yeah?
I mean that's kind of the thing is, like I realize there's these certain tricks in a lot of organized religion that are.
Difficult to catch.
Like you're raised as a child in our culture like that faith and hope are these good things. They're positive energies in your life, like to keep up your hope and keep up your faith. But ultimately, if you're in a cult, being faithful is equal to being gullible.
It's not a good thing.
Like being faithful is just being gullible at a certain level. And hoping and hoping is also a certain level of begging and needing and lacking, and ultimately you're just projecting out an energy of not having it and needing it and wanting it, when really what faith is supposed to be is having full confidence that God in the universe has got you. Don't worry, move forward and be confident and trust. You're not supposed to even need to beg or hope or want or feel like you're missing out.
Like if you just get up in the morning and know that the universe and the fates are in your favor and that God is on your side, then why are you even worried? You know, why are you even asking for anything? Nothing can ever be out of place. Everything is just how it's supposed to be right, like there's no mistakes if you're really faithful. And so somehow they invert it and they turn it into this kind of neediness, and then they say, well, we're the ones
that can give you the solutions. You come through us and do our rituals, pay our tithing, and be worthy within our pyramid, and that's how you how you resolve that guilt and how you feel better.
You know.
So they try to make you feel broken and then they are the ones that can give you the solution, like a hospital that wants to keep you sick.
Yeah that makes sense. Yeah, I just put uh just put in the chat. The passage from the Gospel of Mark chapter eleven, is like Jesus saying, therefore, I tell you whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. So it's like we're saying, Carlice, to already have the certainty and trust of what you've asked. Like trust and surrender is very difficult.
Yeah, that's surrendering and just fully trusting that you've got it already. It's already destined, like there's nothing can be out of place, and that's what faith is supposed to be. And yeah, somehow they invert that and make it like there's holes in you and so you've got to rely upon them and it creates codependence instead.
Yeah see that.
Yeah, but that was like my whole childhood, like from the time I was eight all the way up. You know, like they do baptisms on kids when you're eight years old, so they don't wait for you to be an adult and choose your own faith. Like when you're eight, you go an interview with the bishop that you go down the checklist and then you're baptized. But when they do that, you know they do rituals where they they insert the Holy Ghost into your subconscious where they give you blessings.
And after the ritual, like the priests put their hands on your head and they even say, like I say, unto you, receive the Holy ghosts. And the ideas is that the Holy Ghost, this unnamed unknown personage then basically enters you, like possesses you, and is an aspect of God or the spirit of God that basically watches you twenty four seven, reads your thoughts or emotions and all of that and reports back to God. So it's like you're embedded with a spiritual like a spy inside your subconscious.
So basically, from a time I was eight years old all the way up, it was taught to me that instead of just having my own thoughts and emotions in my head, there's this extra entity or spirit there that's always watching over me.
Always.
They're always analyzing and testing whether I'm faithful or not. And so it's like you have this little Jiminy cricket you know, from the church that's in your subconscious, like checking you whether you're you're taking all your steps right,
whether you're you're being a good boy, you know. And to me like even that when I got out of the church as an adult, started learning meditation and realizing, like, all those thoughts and emotions in my head are just like an energy that I can go quiet, or I can turn on and off, or actually guide and controlled. And suddenly it's like, okay, so there's not all these invisible spirits and entities inside of me and attached to me, and the thoughts in my head aren't different voices.
It's like it's like a counterfeit skitz of.
Frind of it almost, where you have a thought in your head and you don't know if it's coming from the Holy Ghost, if it's coming from Satan trying to trick you, if you're being tempted by evil spirits trying to persuade you. And so suddenly it's like you're surrounded by all these other things pulling at.
You, these invisible energies.
And ultimately, when you get out of the church and just like go sit by the river and clear your thoughts, you realize all of that is just something that they put into your head as a delusion to keep you co dependent. Where like, in order to get control of your thoughts and emotions, you got to go back and keep doing the prayers.
Keep doing the rituals.
You got to steal, so you've got to follow the program or or all of that can get out of whack.
You know.
And it's like it's really similar to scientology, and like trying to stay clear.
Or go clear.
You know, you have to go you use the e meters and constantly do interviews and make sure you're not possessed by a theta, a bad theta entity inside your subconscious. It's very similar, just under different different approach.
Did you sleep paralysis start at eight?
I think my whoa, it did? See whoa? Yeah, they put it in you.
There you go. That's what happened.
The first incident I had I was ten.
The first I was actually at a friend's house and him and I had an abduction encounter together. And then after that experience, I started having sleep paralysis.
Yes, I'm just saying you're.
Right, so maybe something like that, because I mean, I do believe that there is other dimensions of reality alongside of us. I do believe that there are spirits of the dead and consciousness that exists in invisible realms around us. I do believe that, and I still go out and
I'm involved in that in my work. But when you put it into the context where like your dad and your religious leaders are all standing around you and putting one of those spirits inside of you as an eight year old kid, I mean, that's gonna change the way you see.
The world, you know, ye, well, and they're literally calling it into existence and giving it permission, like the spirit wal I think is very legalistic. So that's a direct order, say a Okay, I don't know, and so.
Yeah, so I'd have those sleep proalysis incidents and then I'm like, so what is this?
You know?
This isn't the Holy ghost, This isn't like my my great grandpa or an angel. This is like a goblin showing up and dragging me down a tunnel, you know, like or aliens taking me on a spaceship.
How does this make any sense?
Like?
I didn't. It never made any sense with what I was taught at church. Never did.
Yeah, wild.
You know what's interesting though, is that at a core of the beliefs in Mormonism, when you when you're really a member and you actually know, uh, the God of Mormonism is actually a man and he was a man that just like you and I a normal mortal human being that lived on another planet in a in a star system where their son is called Kolob, and so
it's like another planet out in the Solar system. So technically the god of Mormonism is an alien man named Elo him and he lives in the Kolob star system, and he talks to the prophet through a rock and a hat technically, and he's an alien, you know, technically he's you know, so it's it's all, it's all kind of in there, maybe.
Sending the drones over New Jersey too, But I don't know.
You know, this this is really interesting because I believe it in that I never actually knew like the full idea behind quatsic coodle. Now I do know, And then this is maybe maybe you can shed some light on this as well. I do know, me and a color of a couple other cult rejects are like stuck on
trying to figure this out. Do you know what the deal is with I know in some Mormons, maybe it's like an offshoot of a certain belief or maybe more evolved like involved in like Freemasons, and are Mormons the idea with them in quatsaicotal I like, I've even came across tours where it's just for Mormons to go to the pyramid, and now thinking about how Quatza Cotals showed up to that tribe, I'm like, well, that's not too
far off. How they're how Mormons are viewing their dude, some guy that came from in the sky.
Yeah, totally.
So they think that the legend of Catziquattal is from when Jesus came after his resurrection and visited the people of the city.
Of Zarahimla in the Book of Mormon.
So they believe that in Guatemala where all those Mayan and Aztec temples are built, where they worship Cetzequal, they think that that is the ancient city of Zara Himla from the Book of Mormon, that the that the Knee Fights from the Book of Mormon built.
And then the Lamanites came down through Canada, right, is that correct?
They the Lamanites came over on the same boat as the fights. They were all brothers and then they had a fight in the family and half of the brothers split off.
Oh yeah, they once like went towards Florida, right, I think even.
Yeah, so well, yeah, Ultimately the Lamanites killed off all the knee fights and then became the native and then later Columbus shows up and settles the Ledger, you know, but and Brigham Young. But yeah, the idea is that they believe they're looking for any kind of evidence for the Book of Mormon to be valid. So they're going to say, where is their evidence of the Lamanites, Like,
where's the evidence of nee fights? And can we see where it talks about these big cities that were built where they had chariots and horses with helmets and swords, and they had battles. And so they're looking around in the archaeology and the ancient history for any proof of that, because it's Joseph Smith, you know, translated that out of the Gold Books. So it's got to be there somewhere
if it's real. So when they see, oh, there's this legend of the flying serpent that came and visited and he was like the god of the heaven and the earth, they just say that must have been Jesus. That when when he was crucified in Jerusalem and then three days later was resurrected, they believe that he not only appeared to his apostles there, but he also came and appeared to his Christian believers in America, and so that became the legend of Cetzequatdal And like then, but then why
is it a giant dragon with feathers? You know, like like, why is it so metaphorical?
And it's they do the same thing here.
There's the legend of of EOTOI and these ancient shaman of the paiut To, the Navajo and the Anasazi people. And they'll do church tours, Mormon tours where dozens of people will show up at these ancient petroglyphs sites, like on the summer solstice, and they gather around the rocks and they pretend like the ancient petroglyphs are stories about Jesus coming and visiting the people. But I'm like them, why does he have like devil horns and a tale?
And why is he like using magic? And why do all most of the Native American people disagree with that?
You know, they have.
Their own character names and clans and types what the petroglyphs mean. But Mormons are desperate to find evidence and proof that the Book of Mormon is legitimate and actually happened. So anytime they can find a culture or a place or an artifact that seems to fit at all, they're like, we got it, you know, and they feel like that's
a victory. If somebody finds anything that looks like the hilt of a sword or what could be a wagon wheel from a chariot, like an archaeology, even if it's not the right timeline or anything, they freak out and publish stuff like this might be evidence of the Book of Mormon, you know. And so that's what that all is. The kets A Quaddal and all that they think it's Jesus. They think that Jesus came to the Americas, and that's the representation of it.
But none of the.
None of the glyphs match, the language matches, none of the legends, the rituals that the priests, the priests of Ketzequaddle were conducting. I mean they were doing human sacrifices and all kinds of different stuff. Obviously wasn't Christian, you know, Like so they were doing different kinds of just pagan worship.
And to me, the temple building, like with kets A Quaddle, is more of a metaphor of the power and the energy of the frequencies of the electromagnetic field of the Earth, and what they were trying to tap into through their temple structures and through their rituals that way, and all across the globe and ancient Asian cultures.
And all of that.
They have the same feathered dragon, flying serpent type of mythos and that all has to do with your consciousness through rituals like tapping into the ether, more than it has to do with anything with the actual person like appearing.
So it's interesting, thank you.
Yeah, just yeah, I never really understood where they came from. It's interesting how you said, Like, I guess, you know, because they're trying to use the idea of Jesus. I think I've even seen daves. For One thing is do the moments have a lot of like archaeologists kind of people out looking for stuff because it seems like they got.
There's a few.
There's a few, and they actually argue a lot with each other. Some of them they do because they don't have any evidence, and so they're scrapping for breadcrumbs around.
You know. There's there's certain.
Experts at Buyu and in the church, and even the members that are convinced, you know that the artifacts and the events of the Book of Mormon all happened down in Central South America, like in Guatemala, up through Mexico and all that. But then you're like, well, then how did the book wind up in upstate New York for Joseph Smith to go find the Gold Book in New York.
So then there's these other people that believe that what they call the Homeland theory, which is that all the events of the Book of Mormon happened up around the Great Lakes, like up around New York, the Finger Lakes, Niaim and Canada, and that actually happened up there. But there's the problem is because the Book of Mormon describes these giant cities and when you go to upstate New York and during that timeline, all you find is artifacts
for the Hope Well and the Adena people. During that time, the indigenous people that were literally just hunting rabbits, living in grass huts like the mound builders, right, So they were like building mounds and they were simple people. They never did metallurgy, they never had horses, they never went to war with chariots and swords, or they never built giant cities or anything. So if it happened up around
the Great Lakes, there's no archaeology to support that. So then they say, well, it must have been down in South America where all these Aztec and Mayan temples are, must be down there. But then it doesn't make sense. For when the founders of the church found all of the gold plates and the sword and things like that they claim they found up in New York, how would it get all.
The way up there.
So there's all these gaps and arguments. They honestly truly do not even know where anything happened, because it didn't happen.
The Book of Mormon is completely fictional, and so this alternative history, you might as well just get the the book Chronicles of Narnia or Lord of the Rings and then go looking around like, yeah, you find someplace, You find someplace that sounds or feels like it might be Hobbiton, or it might be the shire where the Hobbits came from, and so there's oh, it must be true, you know, like you might as well go look for Hogwarts and
Harry Potter. It's not it's not real, you know, So it's a fictional history.
And so they're looking into they're.
Looking into actual history and archaeology and trying to force fit it and it just doesn't fit.
Ye, Like if the whole stone thing in the head is all a bunch of bullshit, and I mean that you don't even it doesn't matter who, who went where, then does it?
It doesn't I mean, I mean, and they've even proven that most of the parts of the Book of Mormon are just plagiarized. I mean, you can even use chat GPT, you can use AI now, you can plug in sections of that book and it can it can reference and say, oh, yeah, this section was most likely plagiarized from a section of the Greek publication of the Bible that was published in
the eighteen hundreds. Obviously wasn't written in five hundred BC, Like obviously it wasn't written from reformed Egyptian and none of that makes sense. And like obviously there's no gold book. The church doesn't have the gold plates, doesn't have the doesn't have any of the artifacts.
All that's just imaginary.
Like they claim that angels came and took it back, Like after they finished translating the book, some angel appeared and took everything so there's no evidence.
Yeah, I know before when I was asking about it, if there was a lot of archaeologists. It's something I thought was interesting, is that I think there were there was these archaeologists that were over around before the Mormons came over here, and they found something that they were trying to trying to say that this was proof that the Mormons were here too. And it was like some some like I think like two pillared brick looking thing
that they said they thought had written on it. Have you ever heard of that.
Yeah, it's like NHM or something like that. They think that there's a city in the Book of Mormon when the family left Jerusalem and tried to flee the wars in six hundred BC, and the Bible and the Book of Jeremiah, that's when the Book of Mormon starts.
Isn't six hundred BC.
The idea is that this family left Jerusalem and on their travels when they got to the coast where they built a boat and then came over to the Americas. One of the places that they stopped was the city of Naholm. And so when people have gone back and looked and looked and looked for evidence of like where these places in the Book of Mormon may have been. They found one place where there was like a stone that had the letters NHM on there. So they were like, in Hm must have been Nayholm.
That must be it. This is the truth.
And they don't look at the fact that likes and other points of evidence say that that's not true. That's impossible, and there's no way that a family of like five people built built a boat and then crossed the entire Atlantic Ocean.
You know, there's just like, it doesn't make any sense.
I was going to ask you real quick too, what's your what's your thought? What's if I remember correctly, what's your thought on the glowing rocks that they used to actually guide themselves to get here? Isn't that? How isn't that was? The boats had glowing rocks on the front of them, right there was?
So there was two different voyages, so there was there's a the family that came over in six hundred BC.
But then it gets even deeper.
They claim that when they got here to the Americas, that they found the ruins of another civilization of people called the Jaredites, and those are all the Polynesian people, And so the Jaredites are the Polynesian people from the and the New Zealanders and all of that, and the Maori, and basically they were in South America like the Olmec, they believe, or the Jaredies, and they believe that they were here first, like two thousand years before.
That first group came on a.
Boat and they were here, and they they got here on submarines. They weren't actually boats. They built solid ships and said they were sealed like a dish. And then the prophet basically went and picked up rocks and prayed to God, and then the finger of God touched the rocks and made them glow so they could go inside the submarines with no light without burning a fire and cross the ocean.
And have light to see.
And they even claim that the submarines worked that when they would roll over in the ocean that whichever cork was in the top, they could basically pull the plug out to breathe are and then plug it back.
The story. But yeah, God touched rocks.
And made them glow like a light, and that's how they could see in the dark inside the submarine. They cross wooden submarines, that's how they cross.
The ocean, pressive, impressive stuff.
Yeah, there's no evidence of that anywhere. I mean, there's legitimate archaeologists that have gone I mean they've done thousands of core drilling samples where like you can go down and to Guatemala and you can go to a lake and drill a core sample in the bottom of a lake, and the layers of sediment in the lake you can see like every year, the plant life that was there and the animals and stuff, because the pollen floats out on the water and then sinks to the bottom and
settles in layers just like tree rings. So they can do core samples in lakes and pull it up and they can say, look, nobody in the region of Guatemala. They weren't growing wheat. They weren't growing they weren't doing all these things at the Book of Mormon claims that they were doing. There's zero evidence for that, but they
don't care. They're just holding on in with that faith, that false hope that someday it'll all come out, it'll all be proven, the artifacts will be revealed, you know, and they just won't because it's fictional.
There you go, there, you know what I wanted to ask your opinion on too well one is it true? I have two questions. I guess it's about Joseph Smith when he uh when I guess when he died. Didn't he supposedly have like the Jupiter sigel, like they kind of pinned on his clothes or something.
Yeah, so he had a whole a magical parchment in his chest pocket. Yeah, it was like I had all these sigils and stuff and you know, magic symbols and writings all over it. And uh, Brigham Young has like a blood talisman that he wears. There's pictures of him wearing it. And they were all also Freemasons, So the Mormon Church were Freemasons. Like Joseph Smith's older brother was named Hiram.
Uh.
His dad named him Hiram after Hiram Abiff from the origin stories of the Masonic lodges. So Joseph Smith's dad, Joseph Smith Senior, he really wanted to become a member of the Masonic lodge like the Woodsman's Masons in Upstate New York, and they would never accept him as a member because he was an alcoholic and they didn't want him.
He was like.
Scamming people and doing treasure digging and had kind of a bad reputation. But Joseph Smith Senior was so obsessed his dad with being a mason, a freemason, that he named his son Alvin and Hiram and Joseph, and he made friends with this guy named Luman Walters that taught them all the scrying, the Enochia magic.
So this guy.
Luhman came over from England, made friends with Joseph Smith's family and then got them into using the magic searstones and doing all that kind of stuff. But yeah, Joseph Smith from the time he was a little kid all the way up was taken out and doing occult rituals. They would pretend, like Joseph Smith when he was a little boy, could use the magic rock and see where buried treasure was. So they were in the business of
scamming the locals. So they would this is what they would do, and they even got arrested for it and like went to trial as a family. Because they would basically go to like a wealthy farmer. They would sneak in his barn at night and like steal a saddle out of the barn and go hide it somewhere and then they would be like, show up in town and be like, hey, we can find missing objects or look for buried treasure. You've got all this, you know, one
hundred acres of farmland. If there's any ancient native artifacts here, we can find him for you. And then Joseph Smith would put the rock in the hat. First thing he would.
Say, is is your saddle missing?
And they were the ones that stole it and hit it, you know, and the farm be like, yeah, I've been missing my saddle for three days and be like So Joseph would put the rock in the hat, put his face in the hat, and he would claim that he would see a vision the saddle is behind a rock out in the field if someone came and took it. And then so the farmer would go be like, he's right, no way. So then they would hire him. Sure, we'll
give you food and board. We're going to trust this little kid, Joseph to use the rock in the hat and he's gonna find buried treasure. And so they would live there and get paid, get fed money, get fed food, and have.
A place to stay. And they would go out.
At night with the magic rock and they would put pentagrams on the ground and Joseph Smith would claim there was buried treasure there. They would sacrifice dogs, chickens, sheep, or goats or whatever and spray the blood around, and then they would try to dig out the treasure and claim that they could find it, and then they obviously
never found anything. So after they would fail two or three times, the farmer would get mad kick them off the land, and then ultimately two or three of these farmers would talk to each other and be like, these guys are scamming us, and would press charges and take them to court, and the family had to move several times.
And ultimately, after they got kicked out of several communities for doing this kind of conning and scamming, they came up with the idea to do a religious scam and claim that instead of finding a buried treasure, they would find a book of gold and publish the book, and that started the entire church. It was just another one of their treasure digging scams that actually finally worked.
Damn wow.
Yeah, I was completely full of magic rituals. The whole time they were doing scrying using magic rocks, claiming they had magic glasses, angels appearing all that stuff. Wow, Yeah, that's.
Pretty crazy there, sacrifice and animals.
I didn't know that not very many people do. You have to go look at the affidavids. You have to read the books that the members of the church that were there that left the church when they realized it, they wrote about it. And there's even the court reports, you know, when they were prosecuted and basically told to leave communities and get out.
You can go look it all up.
But yeah, and the farmers that got scammed, they wrote about it and even published it in the newspaper about how they got tricked and how the Smith family scammed them. But that kind of pattern just continued, using occult rituals and magic rituals claiming to find secret Native American artifacts and things that basically just finally clicked and turned into
an entire religion. I think when they moved to the right community, they had a few people like Martin Harris and Sidney rigged In and Oliver Cowdrey, a few people that had money and a little bit of intelligence that joined in on the scheme. Then suddenly they were able to pull it off and convince a bunch of people.
Now, I also wanted to ask to do you think it's possible. I'm just thinking now, I mean, maybe they weren't in this mind frame, and maybe only I'm thinking like this because I'm in the future. But like I would assume it was a lot easier to commit a crime maybe back then, like or no or faked death? Really put it that way, because were they doing dental records? I mean, like like what were they using? I mean, did they have fingerprints? Like what technology did they really
have to prove? Is that really Joseph Smith dead phone after getting shot in the face too, right and falling out the window. I'm just wondering, do you think it might be possible he faked his death too?
Wow?
I never thought of that, except for the fact that I mean there was like a whole mob of like two hundred people there and.
The Grays, right, they called them with something, which I find interesting, Right, what's that? Weren't they called the grays the militia was like a militia call the Grays. I found that too, because I'm like, then back to aliens.
Oh, I could have been I don't know.
Oh, you can't get away from aliens. To the womans.
Most of the people in the mob that showed up at the prison and murdered Joseph Smith and his brother were their families, like their wives or daughters, were victims of the polygamy scam, so they're like a lot of those guys. They were members of the church, and Joseph Smith had assigned them to go serve a mission in
England for five years. So they would go on a boat over to England as a missionary, and while they were gone, Joseph Smith would secretly marry himself to their wife or their daughter and then claim possession of their land as the steward of their property and land.
And then if they came home.
And were like, hey, why are you stealing my wife, Why did you try to marry and sleep with my fifteen year old daughter or whatever, and they would throw a complaint. Joseph Smith would just excommunicate them for not having faith, for not believing in the in the prophet season whatnot. They would the men would get kicked out. That happened enough times in enough places that the mob finally formed when they had him cornered in the prison and gathered around and lynched him. You know, they they
stormed up the stairs and shot him. He tried to jump out the window and they they killed him outside the prison.
Oh that's what it was, really quick. I just want to correct myself. The Grays was actually I find this kind of funny. I don't know why you would use these people. They were anti warnings. They were called the Carthage Grays, and they were a local militia that was actually a sign to protect Joseph Smith, to make sure nobody. I mean, I don't know why you would use people that already against him to supposedly protect his ass. I mean,
that's kind of a silly situation in itself. So I guess they probably just let them on the fuckers walking.
That's what happened. Yeah, that's right. I forgot that part.
So yeah, the Grays were like the militia that were put in charge of guarding the prison and basically when the mob shut up, they fired a couple of shots in the air for pretend, and then they just opened the door and let the mob come.
In because they went along with it.
Yeah, but you're right, like think about this, like, not only could you trick and deceive a lot of people really easily back then, but I mentioned Lumen Walters this guy that came over from England and taught the Smith family scrying and noki and magic, but he was also an expert in psychedelic tinctures and he knew and was
farming magic mushrooms. And so how would you know back then, in like eighteen forty two or whatever, when when you would go to church at the Smith Church, you know, Joseph Smith's church and take the sacrament, how do you know they weren't dosing people with lum and Walter's psychedelics. There's a whole story at the Kirtland Temple where they all gathered together for church one day and they took sacrament.
One guy showed up to the meeting late and he wrote in his journal that they gave him a piece of sacrament bread that was like the size of his fists, and we're like, hurry, you eat this.
And sit down and join the meeting.
And everyone had visions like the building was on fire. People were rolling around on the floor like they were possessed, and they claimed that they saw visions of like God and Jesus and angels appear in the temple. I'm like, it's pretty obvious when you go back and read that story that they were just you know, drugging the members
or dosing them with psychedelics at certain times. And as a member of the church back then with no Internet, no understandings of psychedelics or any of that, Like, how would you ever deal with that? You would be completely convinced that this guy was a prophet.
No, you dosed the whole crowd. Oh my god, they all think they had show.
Oh Joseph Smith gets up there and starts preaching, and they there was members of the church that swear that Joseph Smith transformed into Moses and all the you know, like all these things. But obviously Luman Walters was there, you know, dosing the sacrament.
Do you think do you think the regular like normal public was even aware of like these types of like hallucinogenics, because like I could see like maybe pulling stuff off real easy because people don't even know like that's an option yet.
Yeah, it was all the days of snake oil, like if you want to get even weird with it, and where it gets really dark. Right at that same time when they moved into Navo and right when Naboo, Illinois and the church really got its foothold Joseph Smith made best friends with this guy named John C. Bennett, and
John C. Bennett was also a chemical expert. If you look him up, he's he was like the first American innovator of the use of chloroform, and chloroform that's the one that you put on their rag cover people and knock them out. And also back then, chloroform was the
earliest version of abortion medicine. So Joseph Smith baptized John C. Bennett into the church and then within less than a year promoted him all the way to the top to where he was first counselor in the church, meaning next to him, next to Joseph Smith, Bennett is the next in line that's in charge. Basically, he's the number two guy in the whole church. And then he moved him into his mansion house, so they all lived in the same He lived in the house with the prophet, and
that's when he started polygamy. So he started secretly marrying himself spiritually to all these underage girls and other women in the community and hiding it from his wife and their husbands and everything.
And he had John C.
Bennett living right there in the mansion house with him and he was the country's leading chloroform abortion doctor. And the members of the church are just so naive and so faithful to the story that they've been fed that they can't fathom that Bennett, that Joseph Smith never had any kids and he was never sleeping with those women or girls.
It was all just spiritual.
But why would you promote a chloroform abortion doctor to be your first counselor and let him live in the house with you, like it's an obvious And then how.
Much he needed his services, I guess, like.
Obviously using chloroform and psychedelics and people that were familiar
with these compounds to manipulate members of the church. It's it's all in there, and they just refused to look when when John C. Bennett, when he left the church, Uh, he wrote a whole autobiography where he confessed that he performed hundreds of abortions in secret in Nauvoo and that they threw the bodies of the children in the river, like he confessed it in his own book, And the members of the church just go then it was he was a crook, he was a liar, so you can't
trust him, Like, well, then why was he living in the house. Why was he at the head of the church. You know, they were doing some stuff, you know, yeah, not just magic and magic rituals. They were con men, you know, they were straight up crooks.
Yeah, that's crazy. I was going to say before, Karl, when you were talking about the petroglyphs and like the representations of Jesus or like people trying to fit that narrative into the petroglyphs and stuff, I was wondering in my head. I was like, I wonder if it's like the psychedelic Jesus that some people think that they see when they're on you know, magic mushrooms or like LSD or whatever this like you know, parallel universe, fake Jesus. I was like, oh, well that makes sense.
Well, said spot the same spot that they go here in southern Utah on the Anasazi Trail, where when I was there just this year, a whole group of like fifty members of the church showed up and they were there trying to say that it was all the story of Jesus and the John, the Baptists and all this stuff. And I'm like, then, why are all these shaman depicted right next to carvings of the deturua flower, which is a delirient hallucinogenic you know the Piu, Yeah, the Piute
and the Goshen tribe. I mean, just two years ago, there was a couple of kids from the Goshen tribe right over there by the Anasazi trail that died in an accident because they did a ritual with detura, with the Detua flower, and while they were hallucinating, they drowned in.
The lake.
And the psychedelics is part of the negative Native American culture, from the Brufo frog to peyote to all of that.
It's just a part of it. So I mean, but they don't talk about that.
That's just Jesus and John the Battle just obviously came here and taught people.
That's what they say.
It's so crazy that like you talk about, you know, the origins of like kind of the snake oil salesman and then like this lst like magic mushroom, don't terra thing, because now what now in present day, a lot of Mormons, in my experience of like you know, kind of like mom culture, what do a lot of Mormons do essential oil pyramid schemes, swear to God literally essential oils. And one of the companies is called Doughtera. It is it is a huge company. And another company, I forget what
it's called right now. The name is Gaging oh amare Amari Global. They sell neurotropics that you put in drinks because apparently Mormons are not allowed to drink caffeine.
You can have caffeine, just not coffee. Oh okay, caffeine.
And I tried this neurotropic drink. You feel high. Literally you are like it's it's crazy. I was like, I don't want to feel this way all the time, all day. But apparently Mormon moms do.
Utah is the number one hot spot for pyramid schemes by a long shot, but multi level marketing and pyramid schemes is huge because the church is a pyramid scheme.
From the tradition.
Continues like it's crazy, yeah, right.
Yes, yeah, and so I mean they start them over everything. Yeah, and it's built in too, because like like Teresa, let's say, if you lived up in Springville, Utah, and you were an active member of the church, you end up being the release Society president or something. So you're like a woman in the local community there that all the other women look up to like, Wow, she's like a spiritual person, Like she's like a role model for all the women in the community. And then you join an ELM, an MLM.
They all want to start selling.
Yeah, then everybody's in on it. Andy, It's all just like a whole it's built in. You turn around and why while you're going and visiting your neighbors and doing the church stuff. Anyways, it just naturally flows, right, So it's it's.
All built in there.
Well, now with social media, that's like how it is. It's like you know, oh, the cool mom is doing it, so like I want to try it, and I'm going to do it, and then your friend does it and they want you to join. It's like, holy geez.
They even package up these pyramid schemes and MLMs into into therapeutic counseling and church counseling, and then how they build the insurances and they build the church and get paid through the church's insurances and everything. Like there's a whole whole pseudoscience racket in the MLMs and the way that it functions here in Utah.
It's pretty wild.
Yeah, it's crazy.
It's like built in.
Yeah, it's in the culture that's so great.
I did want to ask you, they're kind of like just gonna be switching a roof back a little bit more back to the occult again. I know there's things with Zion, there's ideas with that, but I do I think I remember there was like an order called like the Elders of Zion that ended up being like Mormons, that kind of started like their own society. Is there like in an occulted belief amongst some more Mormons about like Zion that might be different than the regular story.
Oh yeah, it's it's the complete end Times doomsday prophecy of Zion. So for Mormons, you have Israel and Jerusalem is the old center of the Church from the biblical perspective. But they believe that when Jesus comes again for his second Coming, that he will establish the new Jerusalem in Zion,
which is in Jackson County, Missouri or Independence, Missouri. They believe that the Garden of Eden was in the state of Missouri in the United States, that Adam and Eve were here in the United States and then spread out from there and then came back, that Adam and Eve were actually in Missouri.
They believed that.
So that when Christ comes again for the Second Coming, that he will first appear in Jerusalem and basically say, oh, you crucified me, I actually don't know you. And then he's going to appear here in America, and then the Mormons are going to re establish.
And rebuild Zion.
And they're going to do that starting in Independence, Missouri, Jackson County, Missouri. There and they even have maps. You can go up into Salt Lake and go in the church history building. Joseph Smith when he was the founder, they were drafting maps for Zion, where the temple was going to be built, where the houses would be built, how the streets would be lined out.
And the idea is that.
Basically the Church would rule the world, that there would be one religion, everybody would be Mormon. Jesus would dwell on earth and live in Missouri in the Temple, and the church would be the center of all political and
religious power on earth. And they would establish what they call the law of Consecration, which is basically Mormon communism socialism where you give everything to the church and then the church basically only gives you what you need, and then everyone will have a perfect life and no problems anymore.
So this idea of Zion and Zionism is this concept that yeah, when the wicked are all burned off the earth and Christ will come back again and they'll establish the city of Zion and it will be the capital of the world and the religious center of the world, like the New Mecca. Yeah, but now Zion is in your heart and it's wherever you live. That's where Zion is.
It's like a metaphor now, and they're just waiting for Jesus to reappear to burn the world and then rebuild the temple in Missouri and then they'll they'll have it for real. My grandpa he was even told in a blessing that he would live to see Zion built and that he would hold a hammer in his hands and help construct the temple for Jesus. And then he died and none of that came true, and everybody just brushes it off, like, Okay, maybe he'll come as a spirit
or an angel and help build it. That's what they say, you know, Yeah.
The Zion is a real thing.
Yeah, they really believe that Zion is a thing. I mean, even Zion National Park here is where I live, right next to Zion National Park and they named it that after.
The belief in Zion.
All the communities in the city here, even the Interstate freeway signs are all a beehive. And that is a theme of Mormonism, is the symbolism of the beehive that comes from freemasonry.
I was going to ask you if you thought that might have been a pull off a freemasonry.
Yeah, the queen bee and the hive. The worker bees are all out serving uh the queen.
Yeah. Interesting, that was totally in the mythos.
They call Utah desret Yeah, like we're supposed to all be productive worker bees for the church drones news. Yeah, that's where that comes from. It comes from the church. Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow. Was there any other type of maybe like ritualistic things that you maybe remember from like I guess the church that you didn't mention.
Well, like the when I was you know, ten or eleven. A lot of people don't understand what goes on in the temple.
Uh.
When you think about the rituals of the temple, people just think that it's like a like another church house that you go in and and uh sit and pray or whatever. But it is actually very occult and very ritualized, like when I went and did baptisms for the dead.
It's in the basement of the temple. There's a baptismal font down and there in the lower levels of the temple, the bottom of the baptismal font, there's statues of twelve oxen like giant cows with horns, and so you go in there and there's a baptismal font on the back of all these big cows like the Old Testament or something like the ancient Tabernacle.
Of Israel or whatever.
And you go up there and they they don't just like baptize you once. There's a whole thing where they say Carl and race, and having been commission of Jesus Christ, I baptized you ford In behalf of Nick. And then they would say your name because you were a guy who lived and died and never joined the church. So we got to baptize you now as a spirit right because you didn't do it while you were alive, we
got to do it while you're dead. And so they would say, I baptize you ford In behalf of Nick, who is dead, in the name of the Father and the Son and the holy ghosts. And then they go broke when they dunk you in the water. And then immediately Karl and Rason, having been commissioned Christ, I baptize you Ford in behalf of Michael who is dead, in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost.
Amen.
When they dunk you and you would get baptized thirty forty times.
What it's like, thirty forty.
Times multiple in a row of rapid baptisms. And then you get out of the water wrap in a towel, and your best friend gets in the water and he gets baptized thirty times. Everybody who's ever lived on the Earth's gotta get baptized. That's why they're all in the family history.
You know, wonderproalysis. For man, this is crazy.
And that's not even the weird ones.
When you go do the washing and anoint thing, you actually like take all your clothes off. You just put like a gown on and they anoint you with water and oil. They tell you your new spiritual name.
So like, I'm not Carl. My new name was Hiram.
And just because I told you that my new name is Highram, now I can't get into heaven because that was my password. So I just now I can't get into because I told you my secret pass.
Right, So you when I go af there and be like high room.
Yeah you're so you're walking It wouldn't work for you.
You have a different name.
Oh right, I have to figure it out.
I guess like, you'd be like Mary, or you'd be like Esther. Yeah, I guess him something that. Yeah, some Mormon name. Oh my god, isn't funny.
Yeah, I was like, but I mean when you do the washing and anointing, you're like walking through white curtains. So you like go into this little cubicle made of white sheets, sit in this chair, and they wash you with water and then oil and all this stuff, and you go through another curtain. It's all these white sheets hanging everywhere, and you go through these curtains all the like you're going through a labyrinth of these white curtains
and everything. And then they give you the new name and blessings, and then you go do the actual endowment, and that's where you're learning all the secret handshakes and the passwords and the phrases that you need to say to get past the guardians at the gates of heaven. So you're supposedly learning literally secret occult handshakes like so that you can pass through and get into heaven with God.
And that's the whole ordinance is you're you're sitting there initiations. Initiations, Yeah, you.
Get a word and a grip every time I did one.
A word and a grip. Yeah.
So they tell you this is the first token of the Auronic priesthood. And then they come around and everybody does the secret handshake with the priests as he walks around, and you learn that, and with every handshake there's a name and like a secret password, and then there's also a sign. So like with this, with this handshake, what you do like this, you you have to put your disarm at the square in this hand and with a cut and then when you do this handshake, you have to go like this and.
Put one hand up on one hand down just in front of you.
And then there's also a password or a phrase that goes along with that. And then after you learn all of those and you go through the different levels, then at the very end you do in occult ritual where you do all the secret handshakes. So you stand in a circle around an altar. So there's altar, just like in freemasonry, they have the altar with the Bible and a square and compass on top. You know, they have the same thing in the Mormon Temple. It really sounds
like stand it is. They call it the endowment, the endowment ceremony. It's an initiat, the initiation. The initiatory is when they when you do the baptism and the washing and the anointing and get the new name. That's the initiatory, the initiation. And then you do the endowment where you
learn the passwords and handshakes. So around the altar, you stand in a circle like a seance around the altar, and you do all the secret handshakes, and then you do all the hand signs, and ultimately you're putting your arms in the air and chanting, saying, Oh God, hear the words of my mouth. Oh God, here are the words of my mouth. And you're raising and lowering your arms in a big circle around the altar, going, oh God, here are the words.
Of my mouth.
In the old days, they used to say it in a fake language, in a different language that they believe that atoms spoke, and they would say, oh peylay ell, Oh peley el oh peley ell, and that meant, oh God hear my words or whatever, because l el Ohim is the alien god from colob or whatever. So oh peley el men, God please hear us. So you chant around the altar, and then after that ritual's done, then one by one you.
Go up to the veil.
It's a big white curtain that's across the whole back of the room, and you walk up there and this guy puts his hand out through a hole in the curtain, and you have to do all of the secret handshakes, and that's supposed to be like God in heaven. And you do all the handshakes and tell him all the
passwords through the veil. He like quizzes you whether or not you remember all the secret handshakes and the signs and tokens and passwords and all that, and then if you get it all correct, he opens the veil and he lets you in the Celestial Room, which is basically like the lobby of a hotel.
That's what it looks like like.
Everything's white with chandeliers and flowers and it's all painted fancy, and you just go sit in there dressed in your gowns and stuff. The whole time, you're changing costumes. So every time you learn a new handshake, you're like taking your robes off, your putting this a white hat on, You're putting gowns on, on, aprons on, You're dressing up in all these Freemason clothing. And then every time you
learn a new handshake, you have to change it. So you're like switching your robe from your left shoulder over to your right shoulder, and then you're changing it from this way to that way. So it's like as you're progressing, you're also changing your clothes. Yeah, so I did all of that when I was eighteen. When I was eighteen years old, you have to do all of that right when you turn nineteen. Basically, you and before you serve a mission as a missionary, you have to receive your endowment.
And everybody who is a member of the church that's been married in the temple, that's what you do, is you go through, you do the endowment, and then you get married inside the temple at that altar, so you kneel across the altar and get married to each other. You do all the secret handshakes and then you hold in the secret grip, but the last grip, and then the priest marries you while you're doing the handshake.
Over above the altar.
Yeah, idea about any of that.
That's why Mormons won't even date somebody who's not a Mormon.
Bringing them there be like what the fuck is this? Throwing up tank signs, like how could you?
Right, you can't even get in the door, you know you can't. Yeah, you're never gonna get past oh right, very you can't even get in the door.
Damn.
Is that why some Mormons say they've never like been in the temple or something like.
Yeah, yeah, it's another level. A lot of members of the church, you know, they just go to church and they don't go to the temple. But the temple is a whole other level. Like I went my whole life growing up, and all I knew was regular Sunday, so I would like go to church, have my regular meetings, and most of that was just like you're might as well be in any other church. You're just like sitting in the pews and going to classes like Bible study.
Then you go to the temple and you're like changing costumes and doing these like serious occult rituals, Freemason rituals and everything, and I mean that was just like a whole other level. I remember going through the first time, and even then I was like fully believing and convinced that it was real.
And in the back of my mind, I.
Was like, this is fucking nuts, and I was like, this is insane what we're doing here. Like I was looking around, like nobody's nobody's questioning how weird this is. Like my first time going through, I was super weirded out by the whole thing, you know, and I had to rationalize it all around. Like I just didn't understand the mysteries, you know, I didn't understand this was all.
And you just convince yourself that you're the one that was naive, and you're like, wow, this is what the church is really about, okay, and you just like accept it and move forward, you know. But ultimately, yeah, I look back on all of it now and it's like pretty wild that I was did that so much. I got married in the temple all of that.
Yeah, yeah, so I'm assuming you met your wife through the temple as well.
We met at church, Yeah, we got we got set up on a blind day. The first time we met each other was at church. Yeah, that's pretty common. Yeah, it's like a safe bet. You know, you go to church, you meet someone at church, it's like it's too hard to to marry somebody that's not into it just as much as you.
You know, you got to be in on it together. It's too weird.
Together. I get it.
Yeah.
Did somebody ask how many veils I went through? Yeah, I'm trying to think. So you go through the Washington anointing veil, the first one, and then in the middle of that one, between the Washington anointing you cross through a second curtain. Then you leave through a curtain, step through another curtain to get the new name, go through another veil, walk up the hallway, go up the stairs to go into the adowment room, and.
Then there's the the.
The celestial, terrestrial, and celestial. They'll so ultimately there's eight
eight eight different, eight different curtains you go through. The final curtain has the actual Masonic symbols, So it's a square and a compass and then a line and so he the representative that's supposed to be God, puts his hand through the flat line and then he he asks you the questions through the square, and then you tell him the answers through the compass through and their holes in them that are that are cut that way or
stitched that way. And then at the very end, he puts his other arm through the hole and puts it on your right shoulder, and then you put your left arm through the hole and you it's the Masonic grip. So if you look up the Masonic grip, you hold hands, you handshake, and then you put your other hand on each other's shoulders, and then you put yourself ear to ear and you whisper the passwords while you're holding that stance. And that's what you do through through the veil to
get into heaven. And they believe that when you die and you actually go to Heaven, that you're going to have to do all that, like you're going to go up to you know, Peter, James and John and Paul or whatever, the guardians of the Pearly Gates, and that's what you're going to do to get into heaven.
Is this passwords.
So it's practice, yeah, And one of the passwords is that the very you know, you have to know your name, your new name, so you're the first one is like, your password is your given name, so I'd say Carl Andresen, and then the second handshake is your new name. I would say high Room is the password. The third name, This third password is I think it's the Son of God or something like that. And then the final password
is like this whole long thing I'm trying one. If I saw it memorized, it's like health in the navel, marrow and the bone, strengthen, the wins and the sinews, power, and the priests would be upon me and upon my posterity throughout all time and throughout all eternity. That's the final password, Health in the navel, marrow, in the bone, strength and wins. Oh, I just spilled my coffee everywhere, so that was the password.
It's like a whole slogan.
Yeah, it's a phrase. It's not even a password.
Right, yeah, Yeah, it's like a whole slogan.
Yeah. That's gotta be nerve wracking.
It is like the first first while, while you're going through all the process, it's like you're like, am I ever going to remember this? Because you can't take any notes. It's not like you can record it. It's not like you can take a pin and paper. In there, they take all your clothes off, and you're like in the you're wearing the ritual clothes, so you can't even take notes. You literally just have to go over and over and over and over again and memorize it all. It's the
only way. Like, so you feel like you know, you go through it, and you barely get through the first like year that you're going through the temple.
You basically have to have an assistant.
Like when you go up to the veil to try and get through, a helper basically stands there and cheats for you and tells you all, tells you everything to say so that you can get through. But in the end you're supposed to go up there and just do it on your own. And then when you get married, the husband is the one that pretends to be God. So the husband goes through the veil first, and then it's the husband that then puts his hand through and brings his wife through, so the woman, the wife doesn't
even get to do the ritual with God. The wife only gets to come into heaven when the husband says, oh see ye, Theresa.
Right, I don't like that, you don't you.
Don't do the handshakes and the passwords with God. You do it with your husband.
I want to do the handshake with God.
Nope, your husband gets to that.
Yeah, you're a woman, so you're you have to follow the husband first after that. Yeah. A lot of women that have left the church feel that way too.
Yeah, well I get that.
Even in the rituals when you make promises, like there's covenants and oaths while you're doing all the secret handshakes and stuff like, there's promises that you're making while you're doing this, like oaths and covenants and promises that you're going to be obedient and that you're going to be chased, and that you're going to give everything that you have to the church if you're asked, and that you'll never tell anybody what goes on in the temple, keep it
sacred in a secret, you know. And during those promises and covenance, the man makes promises to God and the woman makes promises that she will be obedient to the husband as he is amedient to God.
So the wives make their.
Covenants and promises to be obedient to their husband as long as their husband is keeping the their commandments or keeping their covenants. So it's all the women are all second tier, even in the temple, and the women don't get to do any real officiating. The women don't get to do the baptisms or anything, but they do help like do the washing and annoying things and.
A lot of that stuff.
But ultimately, yeah, the women don't have any priestoe authority. They have to do everything through their husband. So that's another big red flag too, right.
The way down.
I don't know, Yeah, that's weird to me.
Unless you like that, but I mean that's the stage for polygamy too.
I mean, ultimately, if you're going to.
Have twenty different wives, you better they better be obedient.
Husband just to get into heaven.
Right.
Well, if the husband saying, well, this is part of my covenant with God or whatever, like whatever the prophet says goes right. So if the prophet what he said, like cool, you can marry as many women as you want, and the wife's got to be like, okay, the prophet said it, so it's okay.
Yeah, yeah, don't don't have to think for yourselves, just follow along. Yeah, follow the person in front of you, and that's your husband. And then the leaders and then God, yeah, yeah, a pyramid scheme.
Yeah, same deal.
Wow, Mike, was there any Yeah, that's the that's the temple, Mike. Was there any questions that you wanted to ask or anything that you wanted to add with any of this?
Well, just out of my own curiosity, I once worked doing some roofing on a new Mormon church and they were very weird about the spire that went on that thing. They're very particular and they told us multiple times, we have our own crew bringing it in, they will be the ones to install it. Please please don't touch it, don't do anything. And even a little piece of flashing metal that connected to the roof with them, and they we're told several times by several members to not touch it.
And so it made us very curious about the thing. I wonder if you knew anything about the spire that goes on top of the church.
Yeah, all of that.
I mean for the spire there, they're specific about it, how it faces ease, the dimensions. I mean when it comes to the temples, they are even another level. Like the actual the regular church houses where the members go for their Sunday meetings. They're not as particular about the dimensions and things. But when it comes to the temples where they do the rituals, they're very very specific, down to like where the wood comes from where, like the
dimensions of the windows. Like if they construct something and it's even off by an inch or two, they'll tear it out and make the workers redo it. And there's huge aspects where they'll only contract with Mormon owned companies to do the work, like to go in and do the actual building and the ritual rooms where they do the ceilings and the baptisms and all that. They won't even let people that don't have a Temple recommendation card like a pass card to get in. They won't even
let them come to work on the place. And so yeah, it's very particular about who they'll.
Let go in.
And then there's even inner inner chambers in there or who knows what they do. We're only like the Apostles and the profit go where they pretend like they go in there and talk to God just like Joseph Smith did, and then they come out twice a year and they do a big conference where they deliver the message, you know,
but they're not obviously they're not talking to God. They're sitting in corporate board meetings with Curtin Mconky, with the with lawyers, and they're they're managing their multi billion dollar corporations, is what they're doing, you know, collecting tithing money and hoarding three hundred billion dollars and buying real estate is what they're really doing.
Yeah, yeah, I mean they get like a lot of assuming, like a lot of kind of like free labor too, right, Yeah.
I mean I was actually even like kind of child trafficed through free labor a lot when I was a kid.
That's considered sex trafficking technically. Actually.
Yeah.
Well, they would use the Boy Scouts of America program and church service projects to get us to do all kinds of stuff. There was so many times as a kid, when I was like twelve years old where I would be out like on some ranch or farm or some state park running a chainsaw or building fence or like picking potatoes on a potato farm. Never got paid anything, And I was just told like through the church on Sunday, like like you're one of the kids that's going to
go do a service project. You're going to go do service, go help people. And basically we'd all show up to church on Saturday in the parking lot in a white van, or somebody would show up and they'd load us all up and we'd go somewhere and just do free child labor all day. There was one time where I went got on a van and drove like two hours out in the desert and a shoveled goat poop at a secret government genetics lab. I don't know how that works. Oh,
how that's the service project. But I was at a genetics lab where they were combining goat DNA with spiders to make advance kevlar like body armor. They take spider silk genetics like from acual insects, from spiders, and they were mixing the jeans with goats and the goat milk would produce this type of protein that they could spin into silk and make like kevlar body armor and all kinds of weird stuff.
And that was a facility.
When I was a kid, I was drove to a facility like that with some of my friends to shovel the poop out of the goat stalls for child labor at some government facility.
I don't know how that works, Like if.
The church is contracted with government agencies and provide some of that somehow. I have no idea, but I know that that that was one of the things I did when I was a kid.
I've heard stories about a lot of espionage being wrapped up into a lot of the especially South American missionary trips yep. And we know that a lot of high ranking Mormons involved in intelligence, and seems like a comfortable relationship.
For sure, a big comfortable relationship all the way. Like, the CIA has a recruiting office at BYU. It's the only college campus in the country that actually has a recruiting office for the CIA on the campus. And they've been caught embedding operatives into the MTC, into the Missionary
Training Center. So they can basically put a CIA asset into the missionary training program, pretend he's a nineteen year old kid, send him on a mission to a foreign country, and then while he's there pretending to be a missionary for the church, he can do espionage, you know, So he can he can.
Do his job.
And all they have to do is put two of those assets together as companions, and you've got basically two agents living in a community can do whatever they want without supervision and that through the church can get into all kinds of different countries that way.
They've been caught doing that.
And you know, there's a reason the Area fifty one is in Nevada, and that doug Way Airfields in Utah, and that one of the main NSA headquarters is right across the Innerstate from Salt Lake City, because the entire secret military industrial complex was developed with a partnership back in the day between Howard Hughes and a Mormon guy named Frank Gay. And Frank Gay was a Mormon. See, Howard Hughes is like a multi billionaire, you know, he
was like Elon Musk at his time. And it's really hard when you're famous like that to buy any land because, like, let's say, if you were Howard Hughes or Elon Musk and you wanted to buy some fifty acres in Nevada somewhere, as soon as the property owners figure out who you are, they're going to jack the price's way up because they
know you're worth it, you know. So what they would do was Howard Hughes would work through these sub corporations through the Mormons, and they actually had a nickname called the Mormon mafia and Frank Gay and his friends would work for Howard Hughes and they would go buy all the properties for dirt cheap, you know, pretending like they were just regular members of the church wanting to buy the land, but they were really doing it for Howard Hughes.
And then Howard Hughes would move in and they would I mean he bought like over seventy different like seventy different properties all around Nevada, all of Las Vegas area fifty one like tons of that was all developed through that system, through like using billionaire's money and Mormons, the Mormon Church doing it in secret. Half of Las Vegas was built that way back in the day. It's pretty wild.
Yeah, a lot of new stuff. Yeah before it's a lot, right, some wild stuff.
Is that the same with the land Disney's.
On I'm not sure, like Walt Disney.
Yeah, like in Florida Disney World, because I know a lot of that, A lot of that land was owned by the c I A first, I don't know if that has a warming connection or not.
A lot of more the church owns a ton of land in Florida.
Oh yeah, they have the most I think the largest orange fields out there still.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, they're huge into real estate right now. Yeah, there's all the church. The church has the religious front, but it's really just a mega corporation.
You know, they're.
Actively buying up tons of real estate and building shopping malls and condominiums and all that stuff. And and yeah, they do it all through the corporations of the church and then they just run the religion over top of it to get the donations.
Yeah, the tithing, the mandatory tithing.
Right, mandatory tithing.
You can't go to the temple and do the rituals, you can't get married or anything. You don't even qualify if you're not a full tithe payer. That's on the on the interview. To qualify when you go and talk to your bishop and everything, just to get approval to go, they look at your records and they know if you've been paying or not. You know, the ward clerk sits right in there with your records and he knows if
you're paying a full tithe or not. If you're not paying ten percent, you don't get in, which is hypocritical because a church that has over three hundred billion dollars and then they for charity. They only give like ten million or twenty million. That's not even a tithe that's not even ten percent. So even the church isn't giving tithing to charity. They're not doing anything with the money. They're just hoarding it. Yeah, you know, and the members
of the church just don't care. They're just like they're just glad. They feel like we're winning.
You know, our church is the wealthiest, you know, we're so powerful. You're not getting any of that.
Well, how do they know what's ten percent of your income? Do you have to give them that information?
Well, I mean it's all like an honor code kind of a thing. But they kind of know. Like when I was living in like St. Anthony, Idaho, everybody knows I work where I work. It's a small town, like I work at the juvenile correction center or whatever, so they know how much I make an hour or whatever.
They kind of guess.
But it's all like they can when I say, they look at the ledger, they can see that like on the first of every month, first Sunday of every month, did you actually donate or not? You know, are you donating? Is it a realistic number or not? And they can look at all that and validate it. Yeah, damn, it's very high pressure, high demand religion, you know, like you yeah, you got to follow a lot of rules, a ton of rules to feel like you're doing all right.
Wow, yeah, it just sounds like it. I think I might wrap it up here and uh, maybe actually, if you don't mind, maybe get you back on to do like a part two, because I'm sure there's a lot more that we could still even talk about, but this is interesting. Uh, thank you very much, Carl, Teresa Ike. Before we wrap it up, is there anything else you wanted to add or risk?
No, okay, no, thanks for being so open and like, yeah, that was I mean, we've done informing coverage before, but that was, like, you know, really amazing to hear your experience, and I appreciate that.
I appreciate the opportunity to like, I'm pretty open about it. You know. When I was a member of the church, it was like a big deal to share the gospel, Like it was a big thing for me to be a missionary, to go and teach people about the Book of Mormon, to teach people about the church, try and convert, Try and convert all of you guys, to become a Mormon and join me and all that stuff. And I feel like I put so much of my life into that that now that I'm not a member of the church,
it's like really therapeutic for me. Like I feel like I spent two years as a missionary in Arkansas going around knocking on door to door trying to convince people that it was true. And now I can hop on and do one podcast and reach it, you know, ten thousand people in one night potentially, And I feel like I make up for it in a good way, like set it straight from all the how far off I was my whole life and didn't realize it, you know.
So it's good for me. I like to talk about it.
I like to put it out there, and if members of the church watch this and get upset by it, I mean, I'm no different than any other whistleblower that got out of any other cult. If I got out of Scientology, I'd be doing the same thing. If I got out of Catholicism and abuse from chrensch or whatever, I would be saying the same stuff about them, you know. But I was raised to Mormons, so that's where I'm at.
I was raising the organization. That was my experience, and I think that the full truth deserves to be told like that rather than this like packaged up version that they tell you and don't give you the whole story. You know, they're never gonna tell you about the psychedelics and Lumen Walters, They're gonna avoid talking about the scrying and the Seerstone. They're gonna, you know, they'll just tiptoe around all that stuff and try to have it just
be about your feelings. You know, well, how does it make you feel when you read the book and all that? And to me, I'm just like, I'm over all that. So I'm just really happy to talk about it and have the opportunity.
Thank you. That was an amazing, amazing show. Appreciate that everybody's links are in the bottom. We got Teresa's down there, Mike, I'll add his. I might actually have your links some copy and paste, but I'll edge your links in there. People want to get in touch with Mike and call Krusha. His links are in there already. H Thank you everybody in the chat. That's what's up. I had a really great show. There was a lot of good stuff going on in chat. That's why I do it. I appreciate
everybody catching the live. Thank you again, Carl. I'll have to get you back on and do a part two for this if you don't mind, in the future, some really interesting stuff. It's amazing. I've had other people on for this stuff, and like there were things that you went into that like I still never heard before. It's just wild. So I really appreciate it, man. And that's the end of another Recult Rejects and until the next one, everybody be well later.