Growing up Mormon with Carl Crusher Part 2

It's always great, great chats. You know, you're already blowing my mind before the show. It's this new stuff you got going on that it's like, damn, I want to talk about this now instead of the other topic.

But yeah, I post all of that all over. You can find me as Carl Crusher everywhere we listen.

the array, that's how they talked about it. But they they were spots that they considered like ancient indigenous locations where you could go and sit there and meditate and it would amplify psychic abilities. And they were like super into that clear back into the nineteen seventies and eighties, and when I kind of figured that out, I got really fascinated with it. And Magic Mesa is one of

those places. It's definitely I nicknamed it that Magic Mesa because it's full of that kind of phenomena, Like you can go and sit there at night, and when you're quiet, you'll swear that you hear voices of people that just are not there, like you'll hear a woman talking, or you'll hear someone ride right past you, like a cowboy

on horseback and there's literally nobody there. And then just all kinds of strange stuff, even seeing like UFOs and strange plasma lights on the hillside that flow around all kinds of cool stuff.

out of the mountain. They're like phasing right out of the ground. They'll just come out of the ground and out of the mountain, and then they use what they call psionic assets or like a remote viewer that's part of the Green Beret team with the unit, and they use telepathy to take control of the UFO and either land it or to crash it. And then the the Green Beret Delta Force team goes in and they capture

it in the entities and everything. And this has all just come out in like the last week and a half. It's kind of wild. So like, yeah, over there at the Mount Wilson and Nevada is one of those spots that big ol Aerospace back in the day with how put Off and those original remote viewers and a bunch of scientists were up there looking for one of these things that was like hiding underground, like some chamber that has a UFO in it or some kind of a

object in it. So yeah, we worked with the History Channel and part of Skinwalker Ranch to try and bring some people out of the government and a bunch of funding and equipment with drones and ground penetrating radar, and we tried to find this thing and where it was and then try to communicate with it. And we did that for two seasons on the History Channel on a show called Beyond Skinwalker Ranch.

My last trip when I went over to Norway as part of Project Hestalen, I went over there and my first day there, I did an experiment where I did meditation with a small group of people, and then on the night vision camera, I filmed a UFO that appeared in the sky and came down and like landed on the ground on the other side of the lake and moved around all weird, kind of like the Rendel schump for since it, I filmed like over twenty minutes of this,

so excuse me. The Discovery Channel saw that footage and they actually wanted to use that footage. They did a whole interview with me, and then they went over to Norway and filmed like two whole episodes where they tried to replicate like the whole thing, like the meditation experiment and stuff. So that's a whole new thing that's going

to be coming out. I don't know if it's on Expedition X is the name of the show or whatnot, but I'm I'm supposed to be interviewed on camera with the host and then they're gonna show some of my footage and then the team from Discovery Channel goes to Norway and and does the same thing.

the electromagnetic field of the Earth. So just like we were saying, how like even in the Montalk project and everything, how they were looking at those ancestral nodes. There's like this invisible electromagnetic field that goes through all of reality. It goes through the whole Earth and everything like a big grid. So everything that you see is reality is

full of this invisible electric field energy that's all connected. Basically, like they realized that there were certain places where that electric field runs longitudinally, like horizontally this way, like across the surface of the Earth, like in layers like a pancake or an onion. But then there's also transverse energy that goes up vertically that goes clear out into space and connects like through quantum entanglement. Everything. That's like how

everything works with gravity and all that. But at these spots where the transverse and longitudinal waves cross, there's these X points that they call a node. And if you find one of those nodes and go sit in that node, there's usually weird geological formations, and there's also strange ancient artifacts. And usually it's this sacred site or there's some kind of a temple or petroglyphs or pyramids, or you're going to find something there that signifies that ancient people knew

and could sense that there was a powerful place. And the idea is you go sit in that spot and then you go out of body, or you meditate or pray or do your ritual, and it's like you leave your brain and just the housing of your body and jump into that array. So all of a sudden, you can it's like jumping onto the Internet of the universe

or whatever. So that's how remote viewing works, and telepathy, how getting messages from aliens and remote viewing, all that stuff works along that grid like this invisible Wi Fi system.

But somehow ancient people knew that. And when you go to these spots, allegedly there's a lot of like you're going to find stone hinge or ancient petroglyphs or like the big stump like big round rock or whatever, and people will feel compelled, just like a homing pigeon or whatever to gather around and to like try and manifest their consciousness or to communicate with aliens and different stuff.

There's like a strange energy there, but that's a that's a very common thing all over the place, and there's definitely something to it, and the government is really active and trying to figure all that out, find how it really works, find people that are good at it, and find ways to weaponize it, you know, And so that's a that's kind of the dark side of it, but yeah, it's a it's an interesting thing then, and there's definitely something to it.

to church on Sunday, it's very boring. You know, when I went, it was just you're singing hymns and you're sitting in meetings and you're being taught lessons about the leaders of the church and out of the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and it's pretty benign, and you're doing a lot of like work projects and weird service projects and stuff. But when you are older and you go to the Temple, then suddenly you're plunged into like this deep level of like Mormon version of Masonic initiations

and stuff. But even as a kid, there's a lot of like weird memories where in conjunction with the cub Scouts or the Boy Scouts of America program and the relationship that it had with the church. Like as I was growing up, the profit of the church. He would say right over the pulpit to everybody that, like the cub Scouts and Boy Scouts of America was a part of the gospel, like trying to get your ego Scout was a part of being a faithful young man. I think that.

And then we would load up in a truck or in a van and go out to like state lands or public land or some government facility and do like child labor all day.

but that's what they told me. And then after that project, when I was telling my dad, he was like, Oh, yeah, that's a secret government facility out there. That's weird. But yeah, I was taken there as a kid for the church and the cub Scouts to do like child labor there. You know, I don't even know if they fed me lunch.

the same way. But when I was growing up, there was really this idea that we were at the end of times, Like the real name of the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, and the ideas that we were in the latter days or the last days and the clock is ticking, and basically that means that there's going to be wars all over the world, big cataclysms, all kinds of disasters, and like basically Book of Revelations kind of stuff, as all those

prophecies are going to come true, and a lot of it's going to happen in America, and a lot of it's going to involve the Church. So it's kind of like how scientology has the Sea Org. You know, they have like this fake Navy that l Ron Hubbard, he's like a fan of the He was part of the Navy,

and so he adopted all that stuff out of the Navy. Well, the Mormon Church they sort of took on the ritualistic and the occult side of freemasonry, but then also adopted kind of this militia and doomsday cult kind of mindset as they moved west as pioneers and as they settled in Salt Lake City, and then they started preparing for the end of the world. And so this idea of cub Scouts was like when I would go up to Scout camp or would go to Scout camp projects, we

would pray at the beginning. It was all mixed in with the church at the same time. We did it as a church group and Scouts, and we would do Scouts at the church building all the time. It was all mixed together. But I had to do with this idea of like you're kind of like being raised as a soldier sort of like to prepare for the end of the world. So you had to be able to

start a fire, shoot a gun like doomsday. Yeah. Yeah, this idea is that, yeah, when the when the cataclysm happens, we might have to go live in the wilderness or like camp out in the mountains, apocalypse, whatever it is.

in the same kind of area right there. But basically, this guy, Chad Dabel, he was a Mormon guy and a bishop, and he became friends with a couple of people that had had near death experiences where they swear that they saw God and they saw Jesus and then they saw visions of the end of the world and they saw all these details of when it was going to happen, how it was going to involve the church in Salt Lake City, and how people were going to have to go flee out in the wilderness and all

this stuff. And there was this book that got published called Visions of Glory that came out, and this anonymous publisher that had this or author that had this near death experience was claiming, you know that he's a Mormon guy in Salt Lake City and he saw the end of the world and all this stuff in that book. And around that book there was a couple of more books. A lady named Julie Rowe also had this near death

experience or claims that she did. And she wrote like three books that said kind of the same stuff, like the end times, visions and things. But Chad Daybell, he was like this independent book publisher that latched onto this and started publishing these books. And so within Mormonism and even in Idaho, especially up in Rexburg where I was, I was still a member of the church back then,

it was like a cult within the cult. So there was like people reading these books that weren't actually official church books, but they were kind of because they were written by members published by a bishop. And so there was people going to these meetings with Chad Daybel and Julie Rowe and these other people talking about their near death experiences. And it was all like in secret, and I had family members that were all sucked into this,

and I was like, what is going on? But it all had to do with people wanting to know when the end of the world was going to happen, and who's going to be president? Is China going to invade from into Oregon? And there's because all this stuff is in these books, right, But at the end of the day, Uh, this guy Chad Dabell who's publishing these books ends up like the same story as always having like affairs on

his wife. There's mysterious deaths, and then in the end him and his new wife there now in prison because they murdered their kids and burned them in a bonfire in the backyard. And then they flew to Hawaii and hiding because they thought that the end times were here, and then Jesus was on his way back and so it was time to fulfill the prophecies, and so they went out they literally murdered their kids and burned him in the backyard, and then they went on a trip

to and got arrested like pool side in Hawaii. Wow, but that was all like this a weird cult within the church and within the like super bizarre.

we need to change or whatever. And then apparently there'll be a time of like refuges so everyone needs to like whoever's a believer is going to like need to flee into the forest, and like there's people who have already started to prepare refuges for like massive amounts of people. I don't know, it's interesting, but yeah.

help as a spirit or something. Okay, so they just rationalize it and move on. Everybody does. Yeah, but yeah, growing up as a member, it was just different like that, you know, you just before the internet, there's no way to fact check, There's no way to look anything up. Like if you had any questions, there was like some maybe a few pamphlets and things going around, and maybe a couple of videos. But like when I was a missionary and went out when I was nineteen years old

and went to Arkansas for two years. That was my first time ever even hearing anybody talk bad about the church or about the leaders of the church. And I was like nineteen, you know. But up until then, everybody that I knew loved the church. They were all members or my family, the whole community. It was like living on an island, you know, and had no idea. But then when I got to Arkansas, it was like immediate conflict.

There was like actually people educated with the Bible and could counter claims and say no, this didn't happen, and point out things that I didn't know, and you know, tell me that Joseph Smith actually was a polygamist and I was like, oh, he wasn't. And then you go look it up, You're like, oh, you know he was.

I was taught, you know. But that took me a long time, like my whole my whole life. You would think that when you're in the middle of doing the Masonic rituals for the first time, that it would like occur to you that this is bs or like what am I doing here? This is crazy, and honestly, it

does occur to I think everybody. Like the first time that I went through and was doing my initiation and endowment and all that stuff where you're changing into all the costumes and the robes and doing the hand signs and passwords and all that, Like the whole time I was thinking it was like a paradox inside me. I was like, on the one side, I was thinking, holy shit, this is freaking weird, Like this is so bizarre, Like what are we doing here? Like how why are we

all dressed like this? Are we really? Is this really what it is? Like that was all going on. But on the other side, there was this whole life since I was a child growing up that was like baked into me and basically brainwashed to look forward to this moment like this was real, and I was taught like, oh, this is just like the old Biblical temple. So I'm like my brain is just looking to make it make sense.

So on the other side of it, I'm also like trying to tell myself, oh, it just feels like this because it's you had no idea like oh, this is what the church is really about. Wow, And I just tried to stay like curious and everything, and I actually became really obsessed with going to the temple and like memorizing all of it and like trying to learn all of the mysteries about it and dig into where it

all came from. And ultimately that's a that's like a two edged sword, because like that's the problem that the church has, and that I think any any big organization or cult has, is that if you have a member like me who's really passionate about it and really loves it and really believes it and is actually having paranormal or and spiritual experiences in your life and so you're looking for answers like this is real, then what happens is you dig into it like a tick and you

study it like really hard, and what happens is you end up finding out, like as a Mormon, like why are we doing all these handshakes? And where did these passwords comes? Where do they come from? Where does this originate from? And oh does it come from Solomon's Temple? Does it come from the Knight's templar? Like where does the roots come from? I want to study that too. So as you're digging to try and learn and to

become more spiritually deepened through study and everything. You end up realizing, oh, well, a lot of it did come from Solomon, but it came from Solomon's books of demonology. Whoops, and you go, oh, it did come from this book in this book, but they came out of Freemasonry, and they originated in these rituals that involved this other stuff

that I had no idea about. Oh, and so all of a sudden you're torn with like, while you're digging for spiritual truth to try and deepen your life and to get closer to God, you're realizing that what you're doing and what you're studying and where it came from, you've kind of been lied to about and it didn't

come from where you thought it did. And maybe you got tricked and you're doing things you shouldn't be or whatever, and you're better off on your own like figuring it out, or like, all of a sudden, you're like, wait a second. The origins of the church, and a lot of these rituals have their roots in like Enochian magic from John Dee and Ed Kelly that were like basically eight hundred years before Joseph Smith, and they were doing the same stuff.

But until the Internet, until you run into that stuff and study it out, you would never know, like you would have no idea. It's just like mysteries like you would read in the Bible or in the scriptures, you know, like miracles and weird mysteries about people, you know, Moses goes and talks to God and the burning bush and things, and so you don't really take you don't really question it until you're older and you can really uh speculate

about things and stuff. So it took me like over thirty five thirty five to thirty eight years to really unravel all that stuff.

and paying tithings. So now these Mormon missionaries are there knocking on all the doors, mowing people's lawns, doing community service and like saying come over here, come join our church, and trying to proselytize their community. So we're like trying

to steal their customers, you know. So we would be out going door to door talking about the Book of Mormon, about Mormonism and stuff, and these preachers would just pull up in their vans or trucks or whatever and get out and just start yelling at us, you know, and

they would just start dropping the SPACs. Oh yeah. They would be like, I condemn you in the name of the Lord, and they would put their arm in the sky and they would oh man, they would get right in our face and they would grab the Book of Mormon and pull it right out of our hands, throw it on the ground and stuff on it. Oh, it was just direction. You're not welcome here. I'm going to

go around. And so they would go around to their congregation and then even hold meetings and educate their their congregation, like, hey, when the Mormon missionaries show up with their name tags, uh, this is what you tell them, you know, ask them about why the Book of Mormons says that people with black skin is a curse because they got black skin because of their they didn't follow the gospel back in the old days or whatever, and ask them about this,

so they would they would give the members of the community all of this information about church history, about polygamy, about all these problems with the Book of Mormon and how and just things with the church that I had no idea existed growing up as a kid in the church. I had no preparation for whatsoever. So then all sudden, I'm out there and not only are these ministers and preachers throwing it in my face, but now everybody in

the community's got pamphlets. They've watched these anti Mormon movies at church about us and all the stuff and about our doctrine and teachings and a lot of it. I'm like hearing this, like that's not true, and I'm just arguing back, like, no, that's totally lie. That's not true. That's not true because, like I said, there's really no internet back then, Like this was right right before when I came home from my mission, when I was like twenty one. That was when I got my first cell

phone and it didn't even have internet. You just texted as well as old Nokia's you know. But when we finally got like internet and could look things up later, then it's like those things that I heard on my mission back then, that these preachers said and that I ran into in people's homes, Like they would just say this stuff to me, Like why would they promote John C. Bennett to first counselor of the church within one year when he was an abortion doctor and he lived with

Joseph Smith right when he was doing polygamy? Were they doing abortions? And I was just like, what, I didn't even know Joseph Smith was doing polygamy? What is polygamy? Like I was so naive, you know. Like so then when I got home from my mission and married, you kind of go back in that bubble. I'm like back in Idaho and back in Utah. You just kind of push all that out of your mind. Like I'd been at war in Iraq or something. You know, I survived

all this hostile fire. But then when you're sitting there at home at night, you know, that same thing that I would do. I would be wondering about the temple, about the secret handshakes. So I'd be wondering about the Book of Mormon talks about all this ancient history, like these big cities where they would have these battles with one hundred thousand warriors and they would be on horses chariots with swords and armor, and I would be like,

where did that happen? You know, there should be a chariot somewhere, there should be helmets or swords, there should be artifacts. So you start, as you get older all these things that I had run into since I was younger and on my mission. Eventually you're like home at night and you run into things on the internet or a YouTube video comes up or something like that, and pretty soon you're going down the rabbit hole, even though

you might have good intentions. Pretty soon you're on a website that explains, oh, that's where the secret Temple handshakes come from. Oh that's why the Book of Mormon was this way, that's why this and that, and all of a sudden you realize, like wait a second, Like for me, I can remember exactly like where I was sitting in the moment and when it actually occurred to me that the only way that any of this stuff makes sense

with the Book of Mormon and the church history. The only way that any of it makes any sense at all is if it's all made up, if it's literally all a lie or fake. And as soon as that occurred to me, it was like I allowed myself to consider that as a possibility for the first time, and it was like literally like coming out of a hypnosis. It was. It was so strange. It was so strange. It was like finally getting the getting the punchline to a joke that I hadn't gotten for over thirty years

or something. It was like, wow, it was like this huge realization that there's no way, this is the only way any of this makes sense is if it's all fake, if it's fictional like Chronicles of Narnia or some fake shit. You know, like that's the only way and you know, the.

up like a comic book. And that was like devastating, Like all of my role models and heroes since I was a kid, and like I realized were totally fictional, you know what I mean. So, I mean all of that like was a big unraveling. And then and then you go through all those levels of like, well what is real? Then, you know what I mean, Yeah.

be like get out of here. I'd be like, ah, like it just I never had that experience in like real life to that extent before. So it was pretty wild. And yeah, it makes you start to look at everything differently, right, get.

Like and and all that. If you bring it up, even if it's just like a fair question or a logical thought to consider, they immediately jump to a response like you're offending Jesus, Like you're literally hurting the Lord because that's his prophet. And this is where you're not

supposed to question it, you know. It's like touching. It's like it's like going into something that you're not even supposed to mention, you know, And so you're offending them, and you're offending the Spirit, and you're you're offending God just by bringing it up. And that's so built into you as a member of the church that even internally, like when you're sitting there alone by yourself and you start to have questions or a doubt pops in your mind.

You even have protocol trained into you where you where you literally push that negative thought or that doubt away. There's these mantras like doubt your doubts that you're taught to repeat to yourself.

in the boundaries you know, all the time. And then as a father, you know, you do that within your household, you know, and as a couple, and so you're like taking your kids to church, teaching them to pray, getting them ready, and your whole family and everybody's watching you. But yeah, when all that comes unraveling on you, that's the big challenges because like as soon as you realize it's not true, like the Book of Mormon isn't real, Joseph Smith is a calm man. All this stuff comes unraveling.

Then you're in the middle of this giant labyrinth that you've been running around your whole life like a rat in a maze, and you realize, I cannot get out of this without literally every friend that I have all the way back since my childhood, all the way through high school, my entire family, my wife, my kids, my in laws, everybody, and you're literally looking at your entire life that if you leave the church, they're all going

to know, they're all going to look at you like great. Now, when Doomsday happens, when Jesus comes back and we're supposed to go in the wilderness to survive, you're not going to be there, you know. And then in the spirit world when we die in the afterlife, like, I'm not going to be in heaven with them anymore, neither are my kids, and so they're like all devastated, you know.

So there's a huge amount of pressure around that. Like when when we actually decided we were going to leave the church, I even had a sister in law call me on the phone, and she was weeping and crying, and she was saying, how like when we're supposed to go into the wilderness to survive, where are you going to be? You're not going to be there? Where's your kids going to be? And she was like crying to

me on the phone. And that was all because they were reading those books that Chad dave Bell wrote, that guy that murdered his kids in the backyard. They were all those doomsday books. Like her and my brother and everybody, they were all reading those books when they were saying that. And that's part of why I got out of the church too, was like this is too too wild, Like this is crazy, you know. But yeah, there was there's

all that family pressure and we had to move. Like we were living in Idaho in a town called Pocatello, and I was in a leadership position at the church at the time, in the high priest group leadership. And then it literally occurred to me that the church wasn't true. And I talked to my wife about it and she

kind of realized that too. We talked about it for like three months and we realized, like we have to move, we have to move out of the state and then leave the church, because if we leave the church now, like every day somebody's going to come over and drive us space, Like we're never going to get away from it.

home and everything to try and get us to go back. Yeah, we had to. We had to use lawyers, an organization out of Salt Lake City called quit lds dot org, and they actually filed paperwork with the church that made it stop where it said if anybody from the church comes and tries to talk to me or my family or my kids, that it would be considered religious harassment because they literally wouldn't leave us alone.

you guys. This is going to get clipped or could get made into an Instagram reel and I might share it, and then they're gonna hear it. So now my brother, his wife and his kids that go all the way down to like thirteen years old are going to see Carl talking bad about the Temple and about the Mormon Church and about and they all still believe it, you know.

So it's safer and easier for them to just do that, to cut me off, to shun me, to not follow me online, and they'll invite me to things and stuff. But I can tell, like when I show up to family events, it's like like they all have to edit themselves around me, like their normal way of talking, how they would how they would gather to pray around dinner

and everything. There's everybody's glancing at me like am I going to say something or cause a scene, you know, Like it's just like a weird aura because I've left the church now, so I'm not one of them, you know, on the house. But now all these things have happened, where like they were, they swore that the end times

were going to happen. They swore Jesus was going to come back, the New Jerusalem was going to be built, the prophecies, the moons, all this stuff written in the books, and now not only has none of that come true.

But chat Dabell and his wife are in prison, and like all these other things have happened, and the Internet just keeps chugging along showing like you can get on chat GPT and you can say is there evidence of plagiarism in the Book of Mormon, and chat GPT within like five seconds will say, yes, there is in this chapter, in this chapter, in this chapter, da da da da da da da, And it will literally explain to you where there's like flat out evidence of plagiarism and scamming

in the Mormon scriptures and stuff. And so there's no excuse except for putting the blinders on, like just like I'm just going to believe and just continue to have my faith, you know. Yeah, you have to want to believe, you know. And in the end that's going to create like a really really passionate Orthodox core that's going to cling on to it like a barnacle to the end,

you know, and there they'll always be there. That's just like why there's still polygamous uh in Utah and stuff that are still practicing polygamy knowing that it's illegal, they'll just cling on to those beliefs like like it has to be true, like they're hanging on to a rope. You know.

twenty twenty experience that we all had. It's like a lot of us knew something was a miss, but then like just stade quiet because it's like you're looking at everyone around you, and every one around you is doing it, so you're like, I guess it's okay then, right, or I don't want to be the one to like poke my head up. Like it takes a lot of courage to do what you did and basically blow up your whole life because you realize the truth and you understanding your truth right, it.

goes two ways. Yeah, Like I think traveling and getting out and opening up yourself to the world, you are exposed to things that suddenly you realize the punchline to the joke, or you hear this thing about church history that you can't unhear, and then it will just sit and eat at you. It's just like a thorn. You know. They call it like breaking your shelf. It's like you learn a thing, and it's like you pick up that book that you just learned that thing, and you put

it on the shelf. How many things can you hear about the church that you realize are bad until your shelf actually caves in and breaks and you realize that it's not good. But the problem is is that your whole life until that moment happens, you're taught and programmed, and the cycle is that you're the problem. You're the one that's the odd one out. You're the common denominator. Like, look at everyone else in your family is doing fine, all your friends, the whole community has no problem with

any of this. And now here I am. I haven't gone to church in three months, and everyone knows. They know I'm not there. You know, they literally take roll every Sunday and they know on not there, they're going to start sending my friends over to invite me back, you know. And so you just always have this built in pressure that like as soon as you start feeling

like I don't like this. Like, for example, growing up, one of the things was the church started being really big on when you're a deacon, you're basically like twelve years old, and that's when you start passing the communion or the sacrament. So the bread and the water gets blessed, and Catholic churches bread and wine, right, and we do bread and water and Mormon church because they don't drink alcohol,

so it's like bread and water. It's literally just like a loaf of bread, wonder bread from the store that they wow. Yeah, but they do like a whole prayer that they recite and they read it off of a card, and then the deacons get up and pass the sacrament around, so you carry the trays of the bread and then the water around when and you're like a little kid, and they started instituting this thing like you can't pass the sacrament as a deacon unless you have a white

shirt on. And so it was like a whole thing because my family was like poor. I literally went to church for several Sundays and all I had was like a denim shirt exactly like I'm wearing now that I wore a church And because of that, literally, because of the color of my shirt, I couldn't pass the sacrament. So I was like unworthy and couldn't participate in the ordinance and pass the sacrament even if I wanted to,

literally because of the color of my shirt. And that was like the first thing as a kid where I started thinking, like when my mom finally got me a white shirt so that I could do it, I thought, I thought to myself, if I had a closet that was full of shirts and at one end was perfectly white and at the other end was like a black shirt, and every Sunday, I just went one shade grayer all the way, Like, at what point would they say that I wasn't worthy anymore? Like what shade of color do

I have to be where I can't participate? And I had all those kinds of experiences where I realized I didn't fit in or like the church wasn't working for me. But I always felt like I was the problem, Like I was the stubborn one. Why can't everybody else is fine just putting on a white shirt? Why do I have to be this little pill? You know that like is stubborn and causes a problem and goes to church on purpose with a DMIM shirt on, like as a protest.

When we finally left the church and got out of it, you look back through your life and you realize, like the whole reason, like we felt like we were supposed to get married because we prayed about it in the temple, you know, So if that's not real, what do we even what do we even know? What even is real anymore?

And so like it can cost you your marriage, it can cost you your family, can you can go through a lot, you know, And then you're also left, like if you've had strange experiences in your life, or or spiritual experiences or paranormal encounters, you're left wondering, well, what about all that? You know, because you used to explain it all through the church and through the scriptures of

what's going on now? And so that's kind of why I'm doing what I do now, looking into UFOs and paranormal stuff like that, because even though I'm not a member of the church, I still look back at my life growing up as a kid in the church and even on my mission and stuff, and I have to wonder about a lot of the things that happened that I thought were miracles or that I thought was literally like a psychic experience where I was given an answer to a prayer and so is someone else and we

both got the same answer. And so I'm like still super curious about, like, well what happened there, because something actually did happen, But if it had nothing to do with being a Mormon, then what was it? You know? And can I still do it? You know, even though I'm not a member? Can I can it still work? You know? So all that stuff is really interesting to go through, so good questions.

You pray together, then you study the scriptures together, you study alone, and then you practice your missionary just like your whole day is literally just swimming in the church.

And so we used to, like, you know, we would get put two of us in this apartment in this small town, and there would be this like area that we're supposed to cover, that we're responsible for, and it's literally our job just to go out and talk to people, find people who are members of the church and have left, and then just go knock doors and try to recruit

people and do service projects. And then like every Friday night they call and you have to tell them how many people you talk to, how many copies of the Book of Mormon you gave out, all that stuff. So it's like you're just swimming in out all the time. And we would get in this community and you would be like nothing's going on. Like we're literally walking around like Walmart or the Kroger, and we're trying to talk to strangers at the fishing section about things and nobody

is talking to us. Like knocking on doors and they just open the door and slam the door in our face, Like we're going to have to on Fridays coming they're gonna call us and we're gonna have zeros, Like we haven't given out anything, you know. So you get desperate. So you have one or two choices. You either as a missionary, you either lie when that phone rings and you say, oh, yeah, we gave out three copies of the Book of Mormon and we talked to ten people.

We talk and you make up numbers even though you talk to nobody, or you get desperate with your faith and you start praying for miracles like hardcore and you put it to the test, like God, we're gonna you need to send us people like and so that's what we did this one time in Jacksonville. And it's funny looking back on it now because it was one hundred percent like a remote viewing that we did. It was a straight up Stanford Research Institute remote viewing protocol that

we did. But we were just literally like trying to figure out who who in this town needs us as missionaries to come and talk to them today. And what we did was we got a we got a map of the town out and we laid it on the kitchen table in the apartment and then what we did was I went in the bedroom and I closed the door, so I was by myself, and then I left my

mission companion out there with the map. And what we did was I prayed for him to receive inspiration from God as to where we were supposed to go, exactly on the map, where are we supposed to go today? And then when he felt like he got an answer, he was supposed to write it down and then fold it up and hide it in his pocket, and then when he was done, he would come knock on the door,

and then we would trade and he would pray for me. Well, I looked at the map, so that's what we did, and so I went in and prayed for him, and pretty soon he came and knocked on the door. We traded, and then I looked at the map and I sat there while he was in there praying for me. And immediately in my mind it was like the name Cherry Street came to me, like Cherry Street immediately. It was

like I saw it immediately. So I was like, okay, So I wrote it down on my piece of paper and then it was like nothing, like I got no other names. I just sat there. It was like nothing felt right, So I felt weird and I just sat there for a minute, looked at a couple of others. So I wrote like two more down on the piece of paper, and I thought, well, that didn't work, you know, So I went and knocked on the door. Got my mission companion. He came out and I said, well, I

don't know if this worked or not. So we pulled out our pieces of paper and he says, well, I don't think it worked because I only wrote down one and he unfolds this piece of paper and it says Cherry Street, like out of the whole city, out of all of Jacksonville, Arkansas. We both at the top of the list both wrote down Cherry Street. So we were like, hey,

there's the answer God told us, you know. So we like finished getting ready and everything, we like got on our on our bikes and we rode across town and we went to Cherry Street. We like hooked up our bikes, and this is where it got weird because like when we got to Cherry Street, we normally what we would

do was knock on every single door. So we'd knock on every door down one side of the street and then cross the street and knock on all the doors all the way back, and then we're back where we parked our bikes and so, but this time we parked our bikes and for some reason, we just like walked past like the first three or four houses and didn't even go up to him. We're just like walking like, that's not it, that's not it, and we weren't really

questioning it. And then all of a sudden, there's a truck in this driveway that has Idaho license plates on it, which is like where I'm from. I'm like, no way, Idaho, I'm like and I literally just said, hey, this is it. So we went up to the door and knocked, and this lady she opens the door and immediately sees us and just starts bawling. She just starts crying, and she goes, how did you know? How did you know? And we

were like, what's going on? She just starts crying, and we're like, well, hey, I'm a missionary from Idaho and we saw your truck out here with Idaho plates and we were just like praying to God who needed our help today and we were supposed to come and talk to you, and so she lets us in, tells us she goes, oh, yeah, my husband was a Mormon, never

went to church or anything. But just like a week ago, he drowned in a boating accident and she was there by herself trying to pack up all of her stuff to try and move out of her house and had no help. And she said that it was like she prayed for someone to come help her, and right when she prayed, we knocked on the door.

helped them, same kind of thing. But as a missionary, when I was like nineteen twenty years old, that was like, holy shit, this is real, this is real, Like we knew right where to go. First story knocked on. She was literally praying for someone to come help her. And it was even crazier because where she was moving to she packed up all of her stuff to go back and move back with her family, and where she was moving to was in back to North Carolina, which was

where my brother was on his mission. So I was actually able to get permission to call my brother. So I helped her pack her stuff up and helped her move, and then she ended up getting help unpacking and moving into her house with my brother in North Carolina. Like, the odds of it were just crazy to me, like how that all happened, But we definitely like we connected to something like to her, to me, the map, the the intentions to try and help someone that needed help

that day, there was really something magical to that. I don't think it had anything necessarily to do with being a missionary or a member of the church, but it definitely put us in our consciousness in that right formula to where it happened, you know, where that that really took place. Yeah, that was one of those cool ones, very cool.

of what keep you in. But the whole trick is, like I said, even after you get out of the church and you leave it, you realize you can do the same thing. Like I'll I'm not religious and don't go to church at all, but like on Sunday or whatever, just like you would go to church, I might sit here and do a meditation at home where I just go clear and I meditate and I'm very present and

connect with the universe. And then I might feel like I want to go hike and look for petroglyphs and have a whole spiritual experience exactly the same way, you know, just like when I was a member of the church, and you kind of realize really quick that belonging to the organization had nothing to do with those spiritual experiences. It just happened to be the case that you were a member of the organization when it happened, you know. But if you're a good person and you're still trying

to do that stuff. Like if I sat here right now and really focused my consciousness, like who in my neighborhood needs help right now? And I went outside and started walking around following my intuition, I guarantee you i'd find somebody. You know, you'd run into somebody that was looking for help, like and uh, I think the church just kind of church is just kind of like they know that, and so good people, good people get the confirmation they're looking for in those in those moments.

to the church. In Mormonism, they you know, it's clearly they teach you that it's your ability to work in the priesthood so as a man, like when you're first a deacon at twelve years old and you start to pass the bread and the water, they give you what they call the ironic priestood, like the initial basic beginner priestoo, and that's like your authority to participate in the ordinances of the church or the rituals and actually conduct them, or to say the prayers and to be an officiator

in those rituals. So you start off in these lower level priesthood authorities and then ultimately as you go up through the priesthood, you're also the jobs that you get in the church they call them callings or like the jobs that they ask you to do, get higher and

higher up and more important, you know. But basically you're afraid that if you're not like reading the scriptures, if you're not faithful, if you're not going to church every Sunday and going to the meetings doing what you're supposed to, that your connection to that priestood authority separates, like you're falling away and you're pulling away, just like your contact and closeness to the power of God is slipping through

your fingers. So it's like you literally are supposed to get up in the morning and you put the garments on, like the underwear that you get in the temple, and you do your n downment. So every day and all

day and all night. While you're sleeping, you're wearing the garments that have the symbols, the Masonic symbols, and you're saying your prayers, and even when you're at your job all day, in the back of your mind, you know that like you're a member of the church, that you have the priesthood, that you have the power of the

Holy ghosts and all that. So, like if you go home at night and you watch some rated movie or whatever, and you fall into sin, or you do something wrong, or drink alcohol or even drink coffee or whatever, even think a bad thought in your head, and basically it's like you're sinning and you become dirty, and you lose that connection to God and you lose your priests. So the church teaches you that the only way to keep that is by going back, Like you've got to go

back and take the sacrament. You got to go back and confess your sins of the bishop, and you've got to keep attending and going to the meetings, and you got to stay on the hampster your wheel. Otherwise you're just going to fall away and become filthy and become part of the world. You know, and so that's what my family thinks I did, Like I left the church. I've got tattoos, I do meditation, I'm interested in aliens. So like, I'm like this heathen that's falling away from

the church and what they call an apostate. You know, I have apostasized.

like a falling away guy. And the fact that I'm like divorced or any if anything goes wrong in my in my life, everybody that knows me looks at that like confirmation, Like ah see.

whole life was falling apart. But fast forward and I've lost like one hundred and seventy five pounds now like I've got You could say I got divorced, but I actually got out of a bad marriage, Like I got out of a bad religion and out of a cult that I didn't belong in. And like since then, I've had like I'm more in touch with myself and my genuine authentic, just my own thoughts in my head and knowing who I am when I think my own thoughts and my own emotions and being clear about that to

me is so valuable now. And I as a member of the church, I never had that, you know. I never had peace of mind or piece of emotion, of any kind of peace at all in my life. It was always like, got to do more. I got to go back to church, I got to read my scriptures. I didn't say my prayers this morning. It's like all these things that you feel like you've got to live up to, you know, and when all that goes away,

you feel like it's going to be devastating. In some ways, it is, but it's also like finally coming up for air and like finally being able to understand your own mind and your own emotions and your own spirituality without

all of that shoved in there. And it's crazy because there's songs that will come on the radio, or I'll see just something on the shelf at the grocery store or whatever, and it will trigger a memory of like a song of when I was in primary school, when I was like nine years old, and I was like a sunbeam at church, like and they were teaching me these songs. You know, Jesus wants me for a sun being too shiny for me, and like these songs like

are baked into my head. I'm like forty six years old, and I'll catch myself still like yeah, in the back of my head, I'll have these phrases that come up that were totally from the church or out of the Book of Mormon. I'm like, get out of there, dude, Like, who even am I without all that stuff in there? It's weird.

Come on, you could do it. And you're like, and I wonder sometimes I'm like, how much of that is because I was taught so much to pray? Or is that like a normal thing that normal people do? If your car is not starting, do you talk to it too?

Like there's there's so many weird things about yourself that suddenly you wonder is that like a normal thing or does that come from like growing up in a cult where I like literally talk to myself in my own head all day like I have like it's like a form of counterfeit schizophrenia almost where you're raised a member of the Mormon Church, and it's like you have the Holy Ghost that's listening to you, you have the Light

of Christ, You've got Heavenly Father. There's all your dead relatives, there's all the spirits of Satan and the evil demons that are trying to tempt you and everything. These are all like voices and thoughts and emotions that are going on inside of you, and you're supposed to sort all that out and just listen to the gospel, or just listen to the truth and listen to the prophet. He's the only one that can keep you safe, you know, like going to church and listening to the leaders and

following them. They actually say stay in the boat, like don't get out of the boat, You'll drowned in the ocean. Like just stay a member of the church. Stay in the boat, don't get out. And they say like that, you know, and really what that is is like stay gullible, keep your head buried in the sand, stay in the cave, don't go look outside and realize there's a whole world out there. Just stay in the boat.

So you're suddenly instead of just being a kid going around just having your own thoughts to yourself, now all of a sudden, it's like there's God's watching, you know, and and the Holy ghost is there, and he's like a spirit that sees everything that you're doing, everything that

you're thinking. So as soon as you have like a bad thought where you're like that asshole or something like that in your back of your mind, you're like ooh, and it's like like the little angel on your shoulder going ah ah, you know, and that's built into you to immediately self correct like that, you know, and you're taught that's God speaking to you self correcting. But the problem with it is it's so unreliable because it's so subjective to an individual that you can get off on

these paths. And that's like that guy Chad daybel that murdered the kids and in the backyard or whatever he thought up to the moment when he did that and was burning those kids in the bonfire, that he was listening to that spirit, you know, he's sitting in prison right now up in Idaho, telling himself get down on his knees, probably saying his prayers to go to bed tonight right now in prison, and he believes that he was listening to the same spirit that other people have

listened to and had to make those hard decisions, just like Abraham being asked to sacrifice Isaac in the Bible. They call it like the Abrahamic tests, you know, like you do really have the faith to do that if God asks you to, and he's I guarantee you he's sitting in prison right now holding on to that and believes that he's still listening to the Holy Ghost, you know. So I mean, it's just completely unreliable. That's the problem.

It's just you. It's just you questioning yourself and giving yourself a bunch of internal split personality basically, you know, and you think that you're talking to God, and really you're just chasing your own internal thoughts around like a dog chasing his tail, that's all.

There's so many things like that. So there's there's only a couple of things that you feel like you don't have to feel guilty about, and that's if the doctor prescribes it, Like if they prescribe your hydro codon and you get hooked on opiates that way, then you can be like doctor said, it's okay, and the church doesn't say anything about that. And the other one is just food.

Like so a lot of Mormons are super overweight and out of shape because they get addicted to food because you can't drink, you can't smoke, you can't you can't even you're sitting there as a grown man and you're watching Disney movies. You know, you can't even watch RATEDAR movies, and pretty soon that's like a pressure cooker, you know what I mean. And so if the one thing that you can do is eat pizza, that's how you wind

up four hundred pounds like I was. He's just like, it's you just didn't can indulge in the one thing you don't feel guilty about, you know. Yeah, so it can be a bad formula for sure.

together like a puzzle. And so one of the more popular things that Joseph Smith's time was the Temperance movement and they had a belief that if you drink hot drinks that were like like hot coffee and tea, that it would actually like boil the inside of your stomach and kill the healthy parts of your gut and things, and that you should only drink liquids at room temperature and things. And it's just a myth, you know, that's been proven that it's not even true, but it was

part of the temperance movement. So when everybody started coming to Joseph Smith and they're like, well, what about tobacco and what about alcohol? And what about this? What about that? They had to come back with an answer, and so they came up with what's called the Doctrine Covenants, and it's considered scripture now, just like the Bible and the Book of Mormon they consider in the church, they consider

it part of the scriptures. And it's published printed right as a part of the scriptures too, in the same binding.

And it's basically there's a whole chapter in there that's the Lord's Law of health, and they call it the Word of Wisdom, and it's basically Joseph Smith just saying like, don't eat a lot of meat except for in times of famine or in times of winter, no coffee or tea, avoid hot drinks, and it just basically no tobacco, made up a whole bunch of health rules and stuff, you know, and the church members of the church don't even really follow it that well, except for like the way it

kind of has rattled down through the generations is basically, don't drink coffee or tea, don't drink alcohol, don't smoke or use tobacco products, and then anything that's like an addictive chemical they consider against the Word of wisdom, you know.

And when you go to talk to your bishop to try and get permission to go to the temple, they ask you if you live according to the Word of wisdom, like if you follow the Lord's lot of law of health, and if you're drinking coffee, like if you went to Starbucks that morning, then you can't go to the temple. They'll say, no, they won't give you the recommend so

you have to be following the law of health. But it's all super arbitrary because like, like I've sat in church where they've talked for a whole hour about the Word of Wisdom and the law of health and all that stuff, and right in there it says not to eat very much meat, like to just eat meat sparingly,

almost like a vegetarian, you know. And as soon as the meeting was over, they get done talking about it for a whole hour and then the High priestcript leader gets up and he's like, Hey, this Tuesday night, we're having a big steak fry. We're gonna be cooking a bunch of steaks in the fryer, and are you come over in my house? So let's you know what I mean. They talk about it and get up there and everybody acts like they're following it, and then they announced the

steak fry immediately after. So it's like some of that you're looking around, like if you really believe the church like I did, I would look around. I'm like, nobody's even really following this, Like what are we doing here? Those were some of those moments where I'm like, a steak fry, like we just got them talking about this, guys, Like.

there's tons of MLM things like that. And Mormons are big on like tons of people drinking energy drinks. Like around here instead of Starbucks, they have what's called swigs or like pops, and they're basically they're like drive through soda shops, so like you could pull through and be like, oh, I want a Big Joe or something like that, and it's literally like a diet coke with coconut cream and lime.

And they basically try to treat every soda and diet soda you can think of, like doctor Pepper or whatever. Like it's a bar, like it's a mixture drink bar. And so you in the summertime, you go look at the swigs here in Saint George Utah, and there is a line clear down the road, like of cars trying to go through the drive through because you can't drink coffee can like instead of getting up and going to Starbucks or whatever to get amocha, they all go get their swig.

every day, like what they call it happy juice. Yeah, And I was like, no, wonder it comes from Utah, Like now that makes so much sense.

But a lot of those start in Idaho and Utah and half of half of how Las Vegas and Nevada, and a lot of the secret military installations were contracts through the government and the state of Nevada and Utah and the Church, and a lot of people don't know that, but there was a lot of relationship back and forth. Like when the mafia was building Las Vegas, the Mormon Church moved in with all of their money and basically Mike bought up and controlled over half of the city

and then got the government involved. And that's a lot of how like Area fifty one and doug Way Airfield, NSA headquarters in Utah, and a bunch of that stuff got done. Part of why the church is one of the richest in the country now, if not the richest church in the country. But yeah, they make deals behind the curtain all the time.

it's all supervised. So before they send you out, like to the Philippines or Guatemala or something like that, or like I went to Arkansas, you have to go there. So like I only went for I think I went for six weeks, but some missionaries if you're learning a foreign language, you'll go for like three months and live there because you're like every day and all day you're like speaking Spanish or whatever to learn the new language.

And then at the end of the three months, they ship you out and they pair you up with somebody, and then you've got to do it, you know. But when you go into the NTC, you're like in the uniform all day and you're you're living with a bunch of people you don't know, and the that are just from all over the place that are all going through the same thing. It's just like going into army boot camp.

But the Church has gotten caught a few times where they've made deals where they've had CIA agents go in with fake identities, like fake passports and fake IDs, pretending to be a nineteen year old missionary, and then they go through the MTC just like they're one of the kids.

And then they the church assigns them like to go to Uruguay or somewhere, or down to Cuba or something, you know, and then next thing you know, there's two CIA assets pretending to be Mormon missionaries that are in Cuba together, and then the mission president gets the order to put these two missionaries together to work together in the community. And then you've basically the church has helped

the CIA smuggle two spies to do espionage. And then you've got two CIA assets living together pretending to be Mormon missionaries in a foreign country. And they even the church even paid to teach them the language, you know. And then they yeah, and they can go around all day in the daytime and put their hour in and just play the role and do the missionary thing on the surface. But then they're actually going out as CIA assets and getting intel doing their doing their real job.

But they've gotten caught. I mean, you can google it, look it up. The church has gotten caught a couple of times with the CIA assets embedded into the missionary training program pretending like they were nineteen year old missionaries. Yeah, it's a whole thing. Yeah, yeah, no one suspects you.

big government installations and things on the land. And so there's a ton of that that goes on too, because the church can go like imagine like up in Idaho or Utah, the church can see this this farmer out here, he's got all this acreage, he's got like five hundred acres that his great grandpa had that he inherited or whatever.

The Church can go out there and pressure them and guilt trip them and be like this is the work of the Lord, you know, and manipulate that guy to selling the land for almost nothing or even giving it donating it to the church like it's a test of his faith, you know. So the church will just take all that land and then they'll turn around and either build like a big shopping mall on it or a

big condo on it or whatever. They don't even build like a temple or anything religious on it, or they'll they'll establish the land and like build another NSA headquarters on on it or something and lease it back to the government. So that's why they're busy do it and why they're so wealthy. Yeah, it's like it's a really easy way to get away with it and the launder the money and to make it look like charities and just do whatever you want.

everything that you have to the church if required. That's literally almost word for word what they ask you. And you have to raise your arm in the air and then bow your head and say yes out loud and make those like you'll give all your time, talents, and all that you have. It says, even your life if necessary to the building up of the Church of Jesus

Christ and Latter day Saints and the Lord's Kingdom. And you put your arm in the air and you say yes, and you make so when you leave, it's like a big deal, you know, yeah, like.

it's like a whole big deal, like your baptism. So it's like a big thing everybody's been looking for, looking forward to you going through the temple, and then you get in there and you're they're like, you're what's your choice? Is? Like, what's your option? You either go through with it and follow along and just mimic what everybody else is doing and get through the whole thing. You're like, you've already gone through all these curtains, You've already gone through all

these different steps, and you're in so deep. Now you're in this whole room and everybody's chanting and you're like yes, yes, and you're all praying, you're doing all this weird shit. But you're looking around and there's your dad, there's your grandpa, your brothers, everybody's going along with it like it's like it's the right thing to do, like like it's just normal, you know, like they've and they're like, isn't this cool? You know, wow, isn't this such a special experience?

not supposed to tell you. It's like a whole bunch of handshakes, all that Masonic initiation stuff, you know, Like

it was so different than normal Sunday church. I was like wow, Like but to me, part of me was like, if this is real, then this is like how you learn real magic, Like this is really like you're telling me like like God or an angel can show up inside the temple and like I might see one in there, and so you just get like obsessed with it, like if it's true, you want to get really good at it. You know. I tried to memorize it all. I tried to I tried to be really good at it. I

went to the temple and did all the time. All the time. I went back and over and over and over again. And then you get out of the church and you look back and you go, well, that was a waste of time, you know, right, Yeah, it would have been better to go like help real people, like in a homeless place or something.

from the Salt Lake Temple. And to me, there's like, straight up, like you said, the story right in the Bible where Jesus goes to the temple and he sees the priests, the Pharisees and the Sadducees and stuff the priests of the temple and they're like working at the steps of the temple and right across the street, and they've turned it into a marketplace. So he gets mad and literally chases him off with a whip, you know,

for desecrating his house. And then the Mormon Church spends like forty million dollars and builds a giant outdoor shopping mall right across the street. And I'm like, instead of a homeless shelter or like something that actually helps people,

they built like a giant, multimillion dollars shopping mall. I'm like, it's just obvious that if Jesus actually comes back, like like they're counting on for doomsday, if he was going to toss the tables over back then in Jerusalem, what do you think is he's going to do to the city creek mall like that, Like, what do you really think is going to happen, like and they when you bring that stuff up, like when I try to bring it up with my brothers or anybody who's still a

member of the church, they just like they just say, well, the corporations of the church are different than the religious institutions of the church, and they just compartmentalize it all. And they also say, like when I talk about Chad Daybell murdering his kids in the backyard or whatever, they just say, well, the members of the church are individual

people with problems. They don't represent the gospel or the or the church as a whole, you know, And they just have a way to rationalize anything that happens, you know, like they look at the shopping mall, they look at all of that, and instead of they're putting it on their shelf and their shelf breaking, they just bottle all that up like a pressure cooker and they just stay faithful, you know, they just bury it and keep going. They don't even question it. They doubt their doubts as soon

as they start to think about that. As soon as they start to question it or start to feel like that's bad, that must be a temptation from the from the devil trying to get them to leave the church, and so you just shut it off, you know, go see your prayers and get back on to the rituals.

you know, like the original. And man, you go in there and it's like they have a room in the upper level, like you go up these spiral staircases, you go through all the different stuff, and then once you finish the endowment and you go through the veil, you're in what they call the Celestial Room, and it's like this big ornate room with all these stained glass and it's like vaulted ceilings and all this crazy stuff, all

ornately done. But off to the side, there's like this room that's like locked with these huge doors, and they've got these big like vases, like planters with plants in front of it, and there's like a person standing there all dressed in white, and they swear that that's the Holy of Holies, the exact same thing as what Moses had in the Tabernacle, where they kept the Arc of

the Covenant, where God or Jehovah would appear. You know, they would go through the different animal sacrifices out in the outer chamber of the Tabernacle and then go in and burn the incense and then go into the veil into the Holy of Holies, and then God would appear and tell the children of Israel what to do. And in the Salt Lake Temple, they believe that they have the real Holy of Holies and that it's there. Like I've gone up and like touched the doorknob and the door.

There was one time where the doors were open and I looked in the room. It's like all the walls and that there's these two mirrors on either side. So they like when you look in the mirror. They reflect each other, like the walls are both giant mirrors, and so like each mirror is like an infinity mirror. So when you look in one, it reflects all the way to the other for infinity in both directions. It's just

like two giant infinity mirrors. And then the whole room is done with like all these rubies and gems and jewels and like all this crazy ornate stuff and all or elaborate. But yeah, they swear that the Mormon prophet and the apostles or whatever go in there and they say their prayers or whatever, and then like like Jesus appears to them and tells them what to do. That's why they are members of the church. Are like okay

with whatever they do. If they build a shopping mall or whatever, if they hoard three hundred billion dollars, they don't care because they think, you know, the Holy of Holies like Gods is literally showing up in the slike temple and running the church. They believe. They believe that it is being run by Jesus, like the prophet is just a spokesperson. Like my brother flat out believes that Jesus appears and materializes in that room in the Holies in Salt Lake and tells Russell M. Nelson what to

do with the church. Every every time he goes in there. Wow, that's the belief.

that rock and they still have the hat. So he probably goes in there and tries to do that. Probably know, Oh my god.

or whatever, I cannot help myself. I like I have to find a weird looking rock and like take it and I bring it back and I feel like somehow deepen down like like this rock knows and wants to come home with me and I and I don't care, like I know that some of that comes from the Church and from Joseph Smith and the Seerstone thing, because like you're always like I wonder if there's a Searstone for me, you know, and so like like I have my desk right now, I've got rocks from Skinwalker ranching

all over the place and all over my house because I like, I can't help myself. It's like one of those one of those things probably from the Church and Joseph Smith and Seerstone. Where now I'm a little like a rock collector. When I go somewhere special, I'm like that rock's supposed to come home with me. That's a special one.