Greg Kaminsky from Occult of Personality

know who he is. Today we got Greg Kaminski and he is the host and producer of a cult of personality. That is a long running interview show that has been digging into the occult and esoteric since about two thousand and six, So correct, and it's with a real deal emphasis on authenticity, accuracy, and high quality conversations with practitioners

and scholars from all over the world. Greg is not just an interviewer, he's also a practitioner with a long arc through Western ESO terrorism initiatory traditions, including Freemasonry, and in most recent years he's spoken openly about his very hona Buddhist practices, so you know, he's got a little

bit of hands on work as well. So today I guess, you know, I kind of wanted to talk to the guy and go kind of a little bit behind the scenes what it means like to practice seriously, what changes you and like how the podcast and everything else went along with that and his I guess, you know, journey

through podcasting and the occult and one. It's just amazing to even have this guy on because I remember years ago I was listening to his show, like it's just weird, like in some ways I hate to use this, I guess as a way to compare it, but like for people with the conspiracy world, everybody looks up at tenfoil Hat, it was like, oh my god, that's the show for me, and the cult community Cult of Personality was like just

like that to me. So it's you know, it's insane that I'm having this guy on the show right now. So it's really cool for me, and I hope everybody else enjoys this. But Greg, enough out of me. Please let everybody know what your deal is and where they can find all your amazing work, sir, Thanks so much.

my YouTube channel, Call to Personality a little bit. Also, uh so watch that space because I got the podcast all organized finally on there, and I'm going to be adding a lot of extra content onto YouTube. It is not part of the regular podcast, so watch for it.

So thank you Nick, of course. But yeah, so if you want to check me out Threshold Saints at Threshold Saints on ig and also ex Twitter, or you can follow me at Wukong Reborn to b U k O and g Reborn. And we will be having a Gray Lodge on the twenty six, which is Boxing Day, which will be a Friday night Nasig Mass. It'll be like a year in review for all all the work that we've been doing.

of your life. Was it like something that or did it just kind of happen or was there a moment? How did that happen for me?

money I made. It wasn't really going to do anything in terms of satisfaction or finding any kind of real meaning in my life. So I was getting a little bit frustrated. And this went on for a long time. And then at some point I got really interested in shamanism and I started reading about shamanism, and I I was checking out different different sacred substances, I guess you could say, and I stumbled upon salvia divinorum.

this thing, I'll somehow get what I'm looking for. I'll find some direction in my life, something that's going to tell me like what I should be doing, where I should go. So then I smoked a salvia and had like I don't know if it was a completely out of body experience or a semi out of body experience, but it was that with like some crazy Kundalini kind of situation happening, hearing like voices and visions, and it

only lasted maybe I don't know, twenty thirty seconds. It's hard to say really honestly, but I knew something had happened because it felt like i'd like kind of shot out of my head and like hit the ceiling kind of situation.

that took a while. And then I finally, after asking people and not really getting any kind of positive response that was productive in any way, I kind of self diagnosed it as a Kundalini experience induced by the salvia. I'm not saying salvia does this or would do this for anyone else, but that's what happened for me. And I'm not saying it happened other times. I did it, because there were other times and it didn't happen like

that at all. But I mean, if we're looking seriously at trying to diagnose the cause of it, I would say it was more the intention and the prayer and the meditation and the sense of like meaninglessness and desperation and like longing for some kind of clue. That was more the culprit than the salvia itself. You know, I mentioned I mentioned that, like so yeah once, sorry, no, no go ahead.

wouldn't maybe otherwise be possible. So anyway, with understanding it is a Cundalini experience, then that just really led to trying to understand like what that is and how to somehow make use of it. So I started like delving into the occult, esoteric, paranormal, conspiracy, all of this kind

of stuff. And I feel like, again like this is all in my book Entangled in Sunlight, So there's no reason not to share it with you here either, part of this whole awakening process, because that's really ultimately what it is, or at least the beginnings of it. I had a memory that i'd suppressed that kind of like came back suddenly, and it was a memory that there was no physical danger or problem or anything of that sort.

But like mentally and emotionally, I was like completely I don't want to use the word traumatized, because I feel like that's an overused word, but I was shocked beyond being this altogether. So this memory like involved She's I can see even now, like trying to talk about it, I'm like a little So I'm in college. It's nineteen

ninety nineteen ninety one, somewhere around there. It's January. I had come back to university from Christmas break a little bit early because I just wanted to get settled and see my friends again before everything started. So I'm pretty sure it was a full moon that night. So again this is like mid to late January. So we went

to a party. There weren't that many people on campus at this point, but there was a party and we went and one of my friends who I went to the party with got pretty hammered and they were just not able to socialize anymore. So I was like, I'm going to take you back to the dorm and you can sleep it off, and because that's what i'd want somebody to do for me in that situation. So we walked back to the dorm and as we're sort of approaching the rear of the dorm, this is like a

six story dormitory. I don't know how many people it would house. Maybe thousand, couple thousand, I don't know. So we're sort of approaching it, and again I think it was a full moon. We're very close to it, so it's bright out dim. So I stop and I like look up, and I notice above us, really like right above the top of the dorm, there is a massive black triangle materializing out of nowhere.

of that sort of size. I guess it was massive, and it didn't make any noise at all, and it didn't really it was very like stable in the floating there or appearing there, and all along the bottom of this thing, because it wasn't that far above us, you could see there were all these lights moving all around the bottom of this thing in like a very complex

what looked like a circuit board sort of pattern. And I was completely frozen, like I remember, like I couldn't move a muscle and my jaw was just like hanging open. I couldn't even close my mouth. I'm not even sure I was breathing, if I'm honest, Like I like, Greg was just gone at that point, but whatever was happening, like I could there was still seeing. I was still seeing something, something was being seen. And then all of

a sudden, it's gone. And I look over my right sh shoulder at the horizon and there's this blue streak like moving silently as fast as I mean, as fast as you could possibly imagine, that's at the horizon. And then it's gone. And then I turned to my friend who's right next to me, and I say, what was that? And they look at me dead and eye and they're like,

what was what? And at that point, something like in my brain kind of broke again, like like cause it's it had just broken already, and then it broke again. And then and then we went inside the dorm and I can't I'm completely like, I can't stop thinking about what had just happened, and I'm like, I got to tell somebody, because holy fuck, this is insane. So we go in and I know, you know, there's not many people on campus, it's really before classes began, but like,

I couldn't find a single person in that building. I couldn't find another human being. I tried, I couldn't find anybody. And then I laid down because it was late, and I kept thinking, I really need to tell someone. I really need to tell someone. And then before, right before I fell asleep, I remember thinking, you can't tell anybody, because it's like, don't be ridiculous, like that's just crazy.

You can't tell anybody. And then I fell asleep, and then I forgot about it for I don't know, ten or fifteen years until I had this salvia experience and started investigating all this stuff and meditating, and and then it just came right back, which again is a little weird. I don't know, you can make whatever connections you feel are necessary about that.

non being ness like he referred to. So I had ever gotten there per se, but I think I had touched on it, and so it kind of led me into this anti spiritualist, anti supernaturalist approach that I take more now. Not that I don't believe in you know, phenomena. I just think it mostly is of the mind. But

I think those are two co creative things. I think that having the experiences and then also the experience as a mind led me to that conclusion, rather than it wasn't like I saw a spirit and then was like, oh I must worship it or I must you know, I must like I mustn't inherently believe that this whole supernatural cosmology exists. Like sure, I'm okay with that, but I also like I understand that how they appear is a reflection of my own consciousness.

you won't totally freak out, but I did. I don't know whatever it was, but then you know, then you kind of come to like more what you would say, substantial kind of understandings about reality. And so yeah, like I think Gene alluded to like all appearance is mind, So at least that's a way to contextualize it in such a way that I don't have to actually know any specifics other than that.

that point. But turns out it wasn't as fruitful a direction of investigation as I thought, at least for me personally, but that's kind of where it started, and it led into like more I guess hermeticabala and exploring those ideas really much more in depth, like especially the work of like Paul Foster Case and his sort of like major Arcana.

I remember studying that a lot, so I'd say that was kind of like the basis of it, but then it kind of went into sort of like wound back into the spiritual alchemy, Like I remember studying cases Esotere Keys of Alchemy book really in depth, and then going into David Goddard's Tower of Alchemy book and doing the practices in there, and that was I found that was probably one of the most profound things that I did,

was those meditations. And it was interesting because at the time I had no way of knowing ahead of time. But like his explanations of the inner alchemy process and Vadriana and the symbols of Buddhism, and like all the ways these things were like trying to express a similar I don't want to say truth, but a similar method of practice and way of understanding.

word is not well defined, so it's it's problematic. From that, It's maybe a skillful word for people who get it, but not everyone gets it. But I do think that there is I think that these systems Hermetic kabbala, Jewish kabbala even like yes, of course, like I obviously we were talking about this, and Greg and I have spoken about this extensively, and obviously we did a.

my way. But the experiences were so similar I was able to then understand at least to a degree more fundamentally what came later, like my my, what it was confirmed for me in text, which is very similar to the way that I practice tntra and also many other people practice mantra as the text is like a sort of referential guide for the experiential wisdom. So I know

that wasn't a proper question. I apologize I aggressed a little, but I just want to say that I agree with that, and it is very difficult to find what kind of common use word to describe like that. Yes, there is something there is something about Jacobs latter you if you want to call that, there's like a way to climb up and experience the non being miss or whatever you want to call it. So yeah, But then also so Greg, I know that I was surprised to learn that you

did study Talima. I think it's really interesting because even though I maybe started out my podcasting careers a little bit of a Talima nag, we'll say, I actually have come to appreciate certain facets of it, especially its ability to be very American and very syncratic, which I think is cool. Actually I used to be more critical of it, but now I think actually they're trying at least they're trying to do something.

And the couple books of his that I've read have been tremendous because they're based on his experience and not on theory or some notion of practice that's not I think like born out in the success that seems evident that you know what I mean, in his life really I mean, I don't know him personally, but just from what I can observe, so I feel like that's He's one person that I definitely feel is super interesting. Craig Williams.

He's been on the show more than any other single person as a guest, so obviously I feel his work has been really inspiring because he has this ability to go really deep and to kind of like with his language and descriptions to I take the reader with him like two very very deep places, which is I think a really unique gift that a lot of writers and

teachers don't at all have. Who else I mean Greenfield I mentioned I think his work has been super interesting just because it's it bridges worlds that you know, often don't get connected, but probably I think we all understand there, like either there's wholeness or there's not, And I say

there is, So I think that's interesting. I don't know, I feel like a lot of the interviews I've done recently have been super interesting to me, like the Alan Chapman interview, the Acci Cederberg interview, and really I felt like this most recent interview I did with Martin Fox

was fucking awesome. Again, I think, you know, because it comes back to this sort of inner alchemy and inner TNTRA practice where I don't know, I'm just tremendously fascinated and interested in the whole process, how it workeds the practice, like what is involved, what's how, what's happening, what's not happening? Uh, and and the way it kind of forces me to confront all sorts of aspects about myself that I'd rather not even see and then have to deal with it's so challenging and it's so good.

quote unquote inner temple people. I don't know if I'm inner temple, but I like to larp as I am.

of things. So that's why, in particular I was curious for you, like where you see the sparks the most. So thank you so much for answering that, Greg, I appreciate it.

when it comes out. It's so out of my control in many ways, in so many ways that a lot of times I don't feel like I'm the one like driving. It's just like I'm there to do the work. But whatever's happening and whatever I'm getting out of it and whatever other people are getting out of it is like there's some other process at work there. I hope it's

positive for other people for me. For me, it led me to a spiritual path and it led me to like serious spiritual practice, and I feel like that's positive and I become a better human being. As a result, I'm more kind and generous and patient and caring than I ever was before, so I feel like that's positive. I'm also more much more aware of insensitive to my shortcomings and flaws and faults and all the infractions of thought and word and deed that I enact on almost

constant basis. Yet I still am like working at it, so I don't know, I feel like the entire process is just like one giant like grinding stone, where you're like grinding out all the wrong ideas about yourself and the world and all of it. And it wouldn't be so unpleasant if those wrong ideas weren't who I am, but that's all part of it. So but anyway, that's like I feel like that's kind of the magic of it.

And then as a result, I get to like meet cool people and have interesting conversations and great stories and really weird experiences. But overall, like it's been a wild ride.

it's something maybe bigger than me. I don't know, like you were saying, like, it just seems like things are just falling into place. I'm just going with the flow at this point, just see where this takes me. I'm having a great time. I'm meeting great people and it's awesome, you know, and I feel like I'm actually doing like something positive for humanity my opinion. And you know, a lot of the stuff that you were talking about, you're

looking at yourself and all this and that. You know, for people that are in the conspiracy community, I think they're a little bit confused about what this TARM means. But would you even say that's part of the great work? Is that actually doing that in depth look at yourself?

There's also that too, and a lot of like devotion and a lot of like serious like inquiry and even yogic practice all of it, but like a lot of it is like dealing with all like all the ways that we block ourselves because like I don't know, I feel like real like wisdom, what people would call like realization or enlightenment, is not withheld from us by anyone but ourselves, and whatever that liberation is, it's not. It's never of the person from suffering. It's always from the person,

because that's what suffering is. So it's very I don't know what you'd call it, non intuitive, I guess, so like when you really like confront what's actually happening on a fundamental level, Like it's hard because I don't know, I don't even know how to explain it except to like go back to the examples my teacher uses with me with like, you know, you think the hand is suffering and you're the can and it's just got a hold of you and it does not want to let

it go. But the truth is the other way around, that can is the suffering and I don't want to let it go, and I can't let it go because it's fundamentally who and what I am, And if I could let it go, that it'd all be done, and it wouldn't it wouldn't even be difficult. But you know that there's all kinds of crap and wrapped up in that, right, So yeah, it's it's it is a great work, and I feel like it's it is It is a lot of work, and it is a great effort required over

a significant amount of time. It doesn't necessarily have to be that way, but that's my experience of it. So yeah, I feel like when I think of the great work, I feel like that's part of why it's even called that.

agree with you. Podcasting is very revelatory in a way and trying to even be a quote unquote, I'll just call it like an newpasaka, like how I normally would like if you are like on the mark on the path, it is very difficult people come into your life that you absolutely love and absolutely loathe. That's at least in my experience so for me, it's been very revelatory of like how I perceive, react, and internalize all of these things, come back, as you said, into practice and reconcile all

of that. So it's very I think someone used the unfolding like a like a lotus or like a rose or whatever metaphor that you want to use, I agree, or upaula flower maybe, Yes, that's that's exactly my experience. It's very difficult, but very rewarding, and it breaks a lot of klipas because you do and Sconda's because you do see sort of the negative aggregates of yourself very clearly when you're put in relationship to people. So all

that being said, I'm sorry, Greg, so why Vadriana? And like if you I don't want you to necessarily have to sell it because that's like very that was putting a lot of pressure on But what would you say that it offers people that aren't have Western esoteric backgrounds? And why would you say that it attracts a lot of them?

Not the Kabalast stuff, of course, but more the nondual realization stuff, the non ratification stuff, as he puts it. And he always told me for the longest time, like, my teacher is not public, he doesn't take students, You're not welcome to know who he is, and I'm not going to talk about him. So I was like, fine, I respect that, and like, no, it's all good, no problem, but secretly I was pissed and like super jealous and really angry about it. Secretly, I don't know how secret

it was, but I was really angry about this. I felt like it was so unfair, you know, regardless, and at some point I got like lime disease and got like really sick and just was depressed and like not doing well at all. And I was thinking about, like, I think I'm just going to like wrap up the podcast and like life's just going to become like taking it easy and trying not to feel miserable. And I remember talking to David about it at this point, and then he was like, you know, I think it's time

for you to meet my teacher. And I was like what. He's like, yeah, I think I think you're ready now, and I'm like, so, you know, being half dead is what it takes, and he's like, I guess so. And so that's when I met his teacher, who is now my teacher. And when I met him, I was really going there with the intention of becoming a Buddhist or practicing vadrighana. I was like, I just want to meet Dave's teacher and like, I feel like this guy's got the answers to the questions that I've got that have

like really fundamental questions, you know. And it was clear not that he was going to answer those questions for me in that meeting or that week that I was there, but it was clear that he knew ways to learn how to become the response to the questions that I had. And the fact that he could explain that much to

me that quickly I understood, like very fast. I was like, oh, okay, this is this is pretty much the only place I'm going to encounter somebody who's gonna actually like help me try to learn and do what I need instead of like what I think I do in the moment, or you know what I mean, like what's actually going to benefit rather than what I think I want. And it was just obvious, like and he taught Varihanna. It was like it wasn't like I was like looking for Varihana

and went to him. It was like I was looking for I was looking for wisdom really, which means and I didn't even really understand that at the time, which means like you really you're looking for divinity. And and I didn't even underst stand what looking for divinity meant. At that point, I just knew I needed to do it because this is again going back to your question about the great work, because it's like, well, what does

it mean to look for divinity? Well, if it means you're looking for divinity, that means like, if you find it, you're going to have to change your whole life, right, you can't find divinity and then be like cool, all right, I'll see you later, like that was nice, Like no, that like if it's actually what you think and what you're looking for and that seems to be it, then you're in trouble because it's then becomes like a really dangerous situation because the Guru is there to destroy your

whole world and your hopes and dreams along with it. And that can be a beautiful thing or it and it can be an extremely painful thing, and those can be the same thing. But I mean it's a fundamental understanding of like that you know, we think we're a human being and he knows that we're not, and he's like, if you want what I have, this is how it goes.

That's how it goes. So that's how I ended up with Vadrihana because I met a being who so thoroughly convinced me, not only through his words and actions and presence, that there was no well, there was no choice in the matter. But I also like to put a fine more point, more fine point upon it. He always says like, I don't want your money. He's like, it's that's insulting. You know, people think I want their money, like this is some kind of cult. He's like, I don't want

your money. He's like, that's a that's so insulting. He's like, the price is so much higher, so much higher than money. He's like, I want your life. That's what I want. That's the price. So I don't mean like, you know, he's going to kill you physically, but he's going to kill all the wrong ideas that you have about yourself and the world. And yeah, so that that's the price, and it is steep, but it's also necessary if that's

what you want. So I guess for why other people might want that, I guess if you want if you want truth and not the facade of what we call life, then that's why you might want to investigate Vadriana. But I've never practiced or had any other teacher, guru or so. I don't know what other people's experience is like, but I know that the precision of understanding and articulation of the system and the tradition is way, way, way beyond

anything I'd ever encountered prior. Like it is, it is exquisitely, sublimely precise and beautiful. But and it's so well laid out, and none of that I don't think actually matters if you don't have a lineage holder who can empower you to do the practices. But if you do have that, then you know, it seems like nothing I've ever done it compares at all. So I do'm not let's just try to sell it, but and I don't think that's really selling it.

very systemic, very historical. It's not like reconstructionists. It's like it's all there, but you have to really put in the work and really make it happen, and you do need if you choose to go down that road for that, Marga, you you do need to have you know, empower mens and you know the blessing of your teacher.

with his work. But I guess it makes sense now hearing your story, and I've never heard the full sort of recounting of that, So thank you so much for sharing that.

some interest and whatever. I didn't know anything, and so I just figured, well, why not, I can just get some people who've written some books, or some experts on the show and be super interesting and so just kind of like started that way, and it wasn't long before I'd met some really interesting people. And one person who comes to mind from that period is Controverse see Kent

Daniel Benkowski. I don't know if anybody remembers him. He passed away, I think back in like two thousand and seven, but he was like super into conspiracy and he would be so so happy today if he could like see how much more aware people are of the nonsense that goes on around them, as yeah, I think we all know so. And it was basically I figured, like, well, I can learn a bunch of stuff and it will help like serve some other people too, at least they'll

have something interesting to listen to. And then it quickly turned into like just a wild information gathering process of trying to learn and understand and get more get more out of the whole process because you can like read a book and you can do a practice and those are good to like learn this stuff. But I found also I don't know if like I feel like saying this is it's gonna sound odd, and I think you too will probably know what I'm talking about, but I

don't know if anybody else will. Like you can do the read the book, do the practice, but there's something about if you can talk to the person who's like written the book and done the practice and like almost like breathe in and retain some sense of their being this about it, like you get I don't know, there's not like a nonverbal thing that you sort of can retain of the essence of what they're doing, what they're writing about, what they're expressing in a way that is

impossible otherwise. And I don't know if this is something that you know other people are familiar with, but like if you if you're learning from someone and if you're or if you're working with someone in some way, especially if it's like magically, you can sort of like breed in and retain like the essence of the thing from the person if they're like better at it or like more skilled at it or more focused at it, and you can like look at that specific quality and kind

of like try and just absorb it as you listen to them, as you like cultivate the understanding of their words. So I don't know, I feel like then that started to become like kind of what was going on. And then I think once I started practicing Vadriana, I was really unclear about why I was still doing the podcast for a while, and my teacher told me to keep doing it. And I'm not still not clear on why that is either specifically, but I still have a lot

of interest in it. But mostly my interest is not like typical magical stuff. It's more about like practices that are gonna end suffering or lead to some sort of spiritual realization that's beyond the delusion that I currently inhabit. And I feel like there's still ways to kind of explore that through the podcast, and it seems unlikely almost, but yet I'm still trying to do that in certain ways.

you after and very profound for me personally. And that's why I always like to flex that I, you know, got you so early on in my podcast career, because it was a big deal to me just personally, more than even a flex.

like receive everything online. That's completely possible, of course, and to have like all your relationships mediated by either social media or even direct communication. But I do think that there is something about proximity that is very important. And I think it is, as you're saying, like profound to hear sort of direct instruction, direct and in the presence of right, because I mean that's the same I don't want to get too non dual or two like into it, Greg.

But it's not it's not that I don't understand that. Yeah, it's very profound, like when you're doing the puja and the you know, the master is there.

responsibility for sure. Sometimes I'm very ignorant. So it's all about mediating relationships, right.

is really the only thing that works. And fundamentally, the Guru is really like a reflection of your mind.

And is it worth it? Is what you've written down, like really worth your life and like devoting your life to you know, because I feel like that's that's really where you should start if you want, if you want to really do it, because otherwise you go into it like not fully understanding like what I'm getting involved with. Like I can dabble, I can like treat spirituality like a s'morgus board and take a little of this and

do a little of that, but that never works. So if you really want to do it, you should do it, Like, don't half asset, just do it. And if you want to do it, I feel like that's a really good way to begin, is like write it out. What are you trying to do? What do you want to accomplish? What is the point and are you ready to like give up everything everything? Like the Robert de Niro and heat are what are you ready got to drop everything

in your life? In thirty seconds? When you feel the heat coming around the corner, it's like that, what are you going to give up? Can you give up everything? I'm not saying you have to necessarily actually give up everything or anything in your life really, but ultimately everything needs to be less important and that you're not gonna

like grasp at everything. Relationships like activities, you know, ideas, you know, all of those things are gonna eventually have to be seen as what they truly are, which is the same as everything else, which is nothing. And then you know then it's so yeah, I feel like that's one way to really like begin It's like, how am I going to do this? Like? What am I going to? Like? What am I trying to do? Is it worth it?

Is it really worth it? I can tell you so so many times I've looked back and been like, I'm not sure I would have done this if I had known. I'm really not one hundred percent if I had known. There's so many moments when I've said that to myself. I cannot even tell you. And I don't feel bad because my teacher said plenty of times I've heard him say, like, you don't have a real teacher and a real spiritual path if you haven't thought about running away. Like, yeah,

that's true. That's been my experience. So yeah, I think if you want to like undertake the great work, like you really get to like take some time, not not a few minutes or a few hours, but like take take a few weeks or a few months, right, really think about it, Like better to not start than to you know, quit midway. I don't know. That's just how

I feel at this point. There's not like it because you get to a certain point, like you burned out so much, like there's like where do you go back to, Like there's there's nothing to go back to.

to even begin to understand. It's like all that's perceived is the wisdom mandola of the deity. Perceiving is the deity, and the mind that perceives is shunyata is emptiness. That's

some thinly norbu rimpichet I think from white sale. But so like trying to understand emptiness from is from the perspective of the Heart Sutra, and like all of these teachings, and and how that relates to like the actual function of the mind and reality itself, and how it relates to like the other fundamental Buddhist teachings about like you know, all appearance is mind is nothing but mind, and so you know, then you get to understand better how appear

and an emptiness or can be the same thing, And then you can try to understand the luminosity of it, where the awareness and the appearance and the emptiness are all the same thing, like there is there's no separation or distinction even though there certainly seems like there is anyway I think I've gone a little overboard there.

is caned. Even the tontric elements are also contained, maybe in a twilight way, but they're still there in those sutras. So they are like the inner, outer and secret layer of all Buddhism. So I think it's really profound that you specifically cited that one and that one, which is so well known, so recited, and of course, like the three of us live in North America, Amutaba is the Buddha of the Western Paradise, And I just I just feel like it's very aonic and it fits for me.

So I just I wanted to really commend you on that, Greg, and don't be so humble. I know that you it's good practice. I'm not trying to say be agic or anything like that. I just I thought it was very skillful. So thank you so much.

But I do have one last, one last question, and I promise you'll be really quick with it. Is that Greg, you went back to university and you did very I'll let you explain what you what you studied and all

of that. But I think it's inspiration for like a lot of people, a lot like a lot of millennial men like me and like my co host soul Are, Like we were kind of on academic tracks and you know, we had a lot of derailments, a lot of like impediments, a lot of obstacles, and but it is inspirational to see that you went back and you did something that was non or me, that was very much aligned with at least a historical sort of accounting of the occult

of cabala of all, like the Western traditions. So and as many of your cohorts have done. So I just if you want to just say something for the high IQ but perhaps low functioning autists out there, just kidding, uh, but yeah, to say something for us, Greg and clear pill us and give us some hope.

the podcast. I'm regularly going to this monthly I think it was a monthly study group Western mystery study group at the Theosophical Society outside of Boston, and I would occasionally get emails I don't know, from all kinds of people all over the world, and they were really quite interesting. But one time I got an email from a guy who was at Boston College, father John Brown. I hope

that's not a problem that I've said that. Anyway, he wrote to me he had some questions about some esoteric stuff, and I answered him, and then we would write back and forth like once every year or so, maybe a little maybe a couple of years, and then I remember one time he was like, I'd love to get like lunch with you some him, and so we met up once. I think it was like a Sunday afternoon or whatever. We went to lunch and it was wild, like talking to this guy who's he's not even a priest yet,

but he's a Jesuit studying to be a priest. And the level of discourse that he absolutely held about esoteric subjects, Western magical subjects, symbolism, it was outrageous and I knew within probably like fifteen minutes, I was like, Fuck, I'm like, I'm gonna have to go back to school, Like I really don't want to, Like I don't want to do this, but I can't even have a conversation with this guy because it was like I was so outmatched intellectually, and

I'm like, I just I submit to your expertise or like you are like clearly have a better grasp, a more well thought out consideration of all of this stuff than I have, and I feel embarrassed and I need to rectify the situation. So I went back to school.

I ended up going back to Harvard Extension School, which was like a huge blessing because I just happened to be in the right place at the right time where I could go and take Harvard University classes at night for a tenth of the cost, because otherwise there's been no way I could ever do this right. And additionally,

this was like it was like a match made in heaven. Really, I don't know who they must have known I was coming, Like the entrance requirements at this school or like, you don't need to take an exam, you don't need just take some classes. If you do well enough, you're in. You can apply to the degree program and that's it. That's all you need to do. So I took a few classes, I did well, I applied and did the

Medieval Studies degree, which they discontinued before I graduated. So like they let me finish it because I'd already gotten most of the courses done, but they wouldn't let anybody else start, and I did. I focused like most of my research and writing on like mystical, esoteric magical subjects like Rosicrucians in colonial America, like symbolism and origin of Pan and the horned god there was, and then of course my thesis which became the Celestial Intelligence's book about

Pico and his angelology and all of that. So, like, the whole experience was just I don't know how to describe it. Maybe this would be a good sort of illustration. I remember at one point standing around with a group of classmates. We were like on a break and I was like, I really love this Harvard thing, Like it's so awesome. You just kind of show up and turn in your assignments and you get an A. It's like it's the best thing ever. And they're like, what the

fuck are you talking about? They were angry. I was like, it's easy. What are you talking about, Like you hardly have to even work at it. It's just so easy. And they're like, you asshole, Like we're killing ourselves trying to do this. We're not getting a's, Like, what the fuck are you even talking about. They would like stormed off after that and really didn't want to talk to me much anymore. I didn't realize I don't think the

like how easy it came. And I feel like this is a lot of because number one, working on the podcast, like there was a lot of reading and research and thinking about what was being said and done in a way that was more analytical and less passive. I was working at Fidelity, so I was like used to like being disciplined and like applying myself like seriously, and I had such intense interest in the subject that it just didn't seem like work at all, Especially after reading books

for the podcast. It was like this is just I don't know. It was just fun and interesting and and plus it was Harvard, so like at in some way, I was like, I mean you can imagine like I'd already been like felt this super competitive urge like from this Jesuit guy, and I'm like, I cannot let him be smarter than me, or more knowledgeable than me, or

more articulate than me. Like I can't have that. And so it was kind of the same there, Like I had that same kind of like get out of my way kind of mentality where I'm like, I'm doing this thing and you're not going to stop me. And it was kind of the same with the thesis. I just like I wanted to write something about the Western tradition, and the way it unfolded was just magic. It was like meant to be. And I think, to Gin to your point, like I think this was like twenty seventeen

or twenty eighteen. I mean, this is like the hype of wokeism. And I submit my thesis about a dead white guy who's a philosopher who's talking about like Kabbala for Christians, and some by some miracle they award me the like top thesis in the humanities that year. I mean it was like, how the fuck did that happen? Like there's clearly like higher forces at work there, clearly.

I mean, this was just it's hard they want to like give that award on to that paper to me, Like yeah, I mean it was to the point where, like I can remember at one point, like I was like I got that award and I'm like, wow, maybe I can like turn this into some kind of career. And I went to like the career services office and the woman literally laughed me out of her office. She was like, you can't even get a job as like an adjunct professor here like or anywhere for that matter.

believe that it is. And if we just like relax a little bit, like take a breath of two or three and kind of like just allow for the possibility that they're like whatever you think is going on is not it, and then that it can be different. And then I don't know, maybe we have to make it different. Maybe we have to just understand that it already is different like something. But it's certainly not static, thankfully, or else we'd be fucked.

ideas of self serenity. So I just want to say that, thank you, Greg, I appreciate you.

a constant danger. But I also know that there's probably some things I said that were accurate about spirituality, probably and most of those, if they were correct and helpful, are not really self originated in any way, shape or form, and you should all understand that as well.

really appreciate this this episode. You really knocked it out of the park with the this is what I was trying to get at and the questions I asked rather deep show. And I'm really happy that my listener's got to hear your experience with magic and everything. I think it was I think, thank you great for people to hear.

that would be super helpful. I also want to say a Cult of Personality podcast available where you get your podcasts. We also have extra content if you want even more, there's Chamber of Reflection dot com or our Patreon, And I also want to mention a Cult of Personality Telegram channel for anybody who's on telegram, Like we have a Telegram channel. I feel like, if I'm honest, like that's really the spot, because I don't know, social media in general is kind of rough and like it's just I'm

I gotta be honest with you. I'm lazy and I just don't really want to work it. All the algorithms and you got to put in a lot of time, and you know, I'm just lazy. So I love Telegram. If you're on Telegram, come on over please and hang out at a cult to personality and check it out.

more in the book. Uh, it's it's it can be difficult to read at times because I feel like a lot of the stuff that I talk about in there is is just it's it's not easy to like integrate because I feel like, you know, spiritualities, like we all want to be like you know, or a lot of people are interested in this, like we want to be like the great magician or the great yogi, right, or the great teacher or the person that knows all the stuff and everybody looks up to or whatever it is.

And that's I'm not saying that's anything wrong with that, I know, but that like it's not going to work out for us. So a lot of the book deals with like coming to understanding of that by like telling a lot of stories about myself and my life and

like trying to express that. Like we start with grand notions and if we go really deep and far enough, we end with the understanding that only the divine can actually allow us to become what we're meant to be, which is just basically like servants of divinity arising in appearance, you know, to benefit beings. And if we can do that, then it's all good, awesome. Thank you very much, Thank you guys.

Michaos magic roots. It's drawing, it's kind of bringing the lineage of the text, at least bringing the words and I like to think of it as concrete poetry. It has no meaning except for the perceiver, and I'm not putting a meaning in. You have to figure it out. So in a way, I'm miss sort of saying what Greg said, but maybe in a more ambiguous monkey king way.

or anything like that, but I do think it. I do bring a certain energy to the like what we all do, and I would hope that if people find it edifying or at least plans a spark, that's all I really care about. If you can, if you can maybe take a I thing. The guest says, pluck of that spark of splendor, that colonel, if you will that empty space between the pomegranate and to carry it with you and then maybe bloom it in your own garden. That's what I would, That's what I would. My intention

would be a higher intention. But do as you will. And so thank you so much, thank you Nick, mister ninety three of course boss, and just shout out to all the upcoming episodes. Greg's episode will be episode eighty one. I usually don't say what episode's coming out because I like to keep the numbers magic and chronopoetic. But yeah, Greg already knows, so he's totally cool. I like that,

and so there will be a couple before him. But yeah, it will come out probably the first week or second week of January.

you're new, you need to scroll back too far. This guy's tons and tons of stuff to go listen to, go check out his show if you're into it. So thank you again. That was an amazing episode. Uh some deep stuff and I'm really really happy that my listener's got to hear it. And thank you everybody that was in the chat. There was a lot of people there from the beginning to the end, and that's what's up. That's why I go live. There's a lot of great stuff being said in the chat as well, and again,

Jin thank you for joining. And that's the end of another recult to rejects and until the next one, everybody be well later.