Fridaze! Vol. 28 - w/guest Philip Zozzaro

You see something's going to happen.

What's gonna happen?

What?

Aladi? Folks, your host double J back here for another Fridays. Uh, welcome back. We got a uh royal barnburner here on deck tonight, of course as always, and UH got uh returning guest here and before I introduced myself or I'm sorry, my co host Nick once again, that's j J. Vance, host of Operation g c D and perhaps more notably not the vice president. Nick. Welcome to Fridays. Hey doing sir?

All right?

I think I'm doing okay. It's a little bit better than it was earlier.

That's a plus.

We're both on a park today. Huh.

Yo.

I woke up like I woke up like and like just coughed up something, and I was like, I'm going to say to myself what the fuck was that? And nothing was coming out of it. I was like, Yo, what the fuck's wrong with my throat? I'm like talking to myself in the bathrooms, like and here, how fucked up it is?

Like it just.

The uh allergy?

I'm blaming about the allergies.

Yeah, yeah, I was actually wondering about that because I know it was fucking up headless yesterday when I was.

On the show coming in hot with some allergions. We had a real barn burner earlier today before we get started. What else is going on the Occult Rejects besides the barn burner we had today with a yeah.

Yeah, people don't catch definitely go catch that show that we just did earlier. That was fucking like almost it was like three hours, I think, like on the dot almost.

Yeah, a lot of you don't even feel like it right because like I was like, oh shit, they we heard three hours.

When it went to two hours, I was like, holy shit, it's been that long. And then I was like, all right, maybe it's like two twenty five to thirty hours.

We're wrapping it up. And I saw like three hours. I was like, hop yeah, dude, did I feel like that long at all?

Great convo?

Yeah, but uh yeah, besides that, I mean, what did I have? Did anything drop this week?

They were, oh, we had the time slips actually dropped today if people haven't checked it out on audio the Ocult Rejects and video on my end as well.

And you were in that with uh Rye right.

Yes, sir, it's an excellent conversation with a guest Former guests here of Fridays In and Occult Rejects Rye from Codegus Codex of Curiosities. That's a lot of words, but it's a great show.

Yes, yes, yeah, we had that.

Then we got ah this weekend we have the High Strangeness at Dudley Town with the Cult of Conspiracy.

We both did too. Do you remember that one?

That was a really out I'm not gonna lie to you, like I say, these are real barnbers, but that was a real outstanding show with those gents. They're yeah, Conspiracy. I didn't I wasn't familiar with their work, but I like their style.

Mm hmm. No.

They when they cover topics, they do a pretty thorough So that's why, because I knew it was going to be, you know, solid work if they came on.

So good call, because I listened to one of their shows in preparation just to see what they're like, you know, get a little flavor of their show. I mean, I enjoyed it, but you know what I'm saying, Like they came in hot with some good stuff there.

Me and Teresa have covered a few topics on their show before, as well, and it's always gone well, Like even if I'm bringing up something that they don't even know, somehow they even have stuff to add to it.

It's it's just wolves works out fun.

Julia does a lot of work over there on Saturdays here.

Yep, yep, she's got a she's got like a day on their rotation. I'm not exactly. I think they do like a show it to every day. I think she is like one of those spots or something like that.

Yeah, I think she said Saturdays Julia from Cosmic Peach, who was also with us this afternoon for the Austin Waite Percarticulet Reject Show.

Yes, but uh, anything else, I think, let me see what I have coming up next week.

Anything that we did.

Oh, Scientology and Battlefield Earth with rack Andy Krops next.

Week coming in hot. That's a great one. I really enjoyed that one too.

That was good too.

Yeah yeah, yeah, that and that and then we have been Symbolism the symbolic studies.

You weren't there for that. That was like the occult stuff.

I listened to that one. Now, that was a good one. I enjoyed that one.

Yeah, yeah, but we got that coming up.

Was that with the one with rot No one that's not Rob you said, symbolic studies. Oh, I actually I keep on missing his shows that he was on there recently, one of the Occult Reject shows. You know, we always Joe Joe. We were joking because we're always kind of seeing each other in passing and whatnot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he shows up in a lot of the lives. We're actually scheduling a Nazi symbolism with him.

Oh yeah, that one's there.

Oh yeah, yeah, sure Nazis.

Now you're talking my language.

Yea.

When he he suggested it, and then I was like, yo, say no more.

And sadly you won't be able to make it for this one coming up on Operation GCD Live The Occult Rejects End of month review. On Operation GCD Live, we're doing uh and occult Esoteric review of So I married an axe murderer on the twenty fifth. But you'll uh, you'll be there Wednesday, right.

I may not even be home next week because well the twenty and through the twenty fourth, for sure, I'm gonna be at the summit. But then I may actually have to film something a day or two more after that. But yeah, that's something I could have too. That would be going to Mount Pilot's summit next week to film the UFO alien fucking thing going on over there. Question for you technically, technically it could be possible this time next week.

I could have met Randall Colson at this point.

Yeah. What's that called?

Eh?

This album?

I don't even know the name of it.

Something I looked forward before. I'll look forward again. Here. Where do you find it?

You should have somebody send me a link.

You'll put it up if you find it.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, so you'll miss that one because of your your Mount Pilot escapades of the UFO conference. That that sounds exciting, man.

Yeah, yeah, should help at least meet people with my filming equipment shout to.

Say, it sounds it sounds like an exciting, you know, opportunity to get get some your equipment out and operational.

Yeah, forth to that one.

And then I also got a quick a couple of quick plugs before we go to our guests here this evening. Those are the next two Operation GCD Lives and I got this is coming up on Sunday for Sundays Operation GCD Patreon the links in the description here on the link tree. This is Meet Nathaniel bar Jonah, Operation GCD Sunday's volume three. Oh shoot, it is three, almost said two. The legend of I wish it was to I wish

Yeah, So of course it's always great.

We have we have some conversations. Again, like today, I'm a big fan of Austin Waypercard. He's a you know, at his age, I certainly wasn't coming up with the ideas or having the interest of the of the subjects he's he's interested in today. So I like to see the the youth of today. You know, he's not you know, obviously, he's a he's a man. He's an adult, but I'm saying, like, you know, much younger than man one myself. So and I certainly wasn't into that stuff at his age.

So you wonder about that if we had the technology at our finger tips at that age, we'll be doing the same stuff.

Anyway.

Yeah, I've actually thought the same thing myself, because you know, I try to. You know, I try to. And I'm not saying I'm mentor folks, but I try to. You know, I'm happy to answer questions and whatnot. I have a number of folks of you know, ranging from twenty five,

Oh yeah, and then what's that you got a lot up in there?

He retains a lot, dude. I like it. I like it so last plug here before we get to our guests, and I apologize for the any long winded delays here. I got Operation GCD Thursday's Patreon coming up this Thursday

So speaking of Satanic Panic, I do have Stephen Flowers coming on my show this Sunday from the Tumblow set.

Guys, you want to get you a fellow of Satan Panic. Definitely checked that out.

Yeah, he's gonna tell you all about it.

Yes, he's got it's a panic though, right see, I asked him to come on to talk about.

You know what I mean. Yeah, Well, I just you know, it was interesting. I was already writing this series when when Gina Black, which I thoroughly enjoyed her positions on opinions on everything. You know, I don't want the world to agree with me, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I mean the check was off for cemeteries. And I don't think she's like a conspiracy.

Yeah, but she was coming at you know, she was she seemed like she was interested to hear more about the Westmos already, and it wasn't right.

I think anything else and what the news told her. I just wouldn't have expected that, you know what I'm.

Saying, Oh, for sure, But you know, I just think that's part of you know, that conversation. In my opinion, commoncapsulate where my motivations in that series. You know, there's very reasonable, intelligent folks in this day and age that they think it was a Satanic panic. And you don't have to be a member of the Temple of Set to have that opinion.

Mhm.

It's because they've subscribed, you know. And I don't fault folks for falling for the magic show. But it is a magic show. And speaking of magic shows, there's an expert tonight here on magic shows of a Hollywood Bob Cocaine variety. How you doing sir, good, how's it going? Excellent? Phil, Phil Gazara, welcome back for some fridays here. Now. You were with us a few weeks back, and I couldn't could have enjoyed it more. A lot of fun.

Thank you for having me.

Well, an any man, any man knowledgeable in the life and times of Bob Cocaine Evans is somebody I want to talk to. And you, uh, you have a lot of details.

Always I know, I know a little about the man. I mean, definitely, I mean for breakfast, just I mean an interesting figure. I mean between you know, his long his long career in show business, between being like at one point he was a voice actor in New York for like radio shows, and then you know, then you know, there was kind of like that period when he was working for his brother with the clothing company.

And Charles, Charles is an interesting character for himself, right yep.

Yeah, And well Charles is the one who figures into his the Cocaine bust.

Right well, Charles, they do everything in life. And it's Charles and Charles Junior that fund and produced Johnny Depp's first directorial debut.

Wow, well it's weird enough. So I was just looking. So I just finished The Fat Lady Saying, which was the sequel to the Kid Stays in the Picture, and I'm looking at the picture. Yeah, yeah, because it's it's based off of Evans after he has his stroke, like three strokes that almost killed him back in ninety eight.

Yep.

Yeah. And then I'm looking at the picture of his son, Josh, his son with Ally McGrath, and I'm like, I've seen this guy, like I know I've seen him, and I'm like, all of a sudden, I could decide to look up the movie Ricochet with Denzel Washington and John Loftkow, good nineties movie, and he plays John Liftko is like right hand guy in it. And he also played Tom Cruise's brother and born on the fourth of July.

I knew that one. I didn't realize he was in the Ricochet though, but it is interesting he plays a long Cruise in an Oliver Stone film. I find that epicenter of Xavity with the Evans family kind of odd, kind of odd.

Yeah, well then you think of I mean, uh, Oliver Stones relationship with arnand Milchah on the Israeli Spy, you know, with who produced JFK. And a few other movies. I mean he just got you know, got around and knowledge.

Weird to have a center of these product these producers out there, isn't it, you know? I mean, obviously Cocaine Bob is a central figure. But when you look at Milkrone, how do you pronounce his name? Again?

It was Milchown am I L C h A n A first name.

These names will tell you phil I need new names. But you know Himlet you know, folks like Khoi. He's a scientologist, you know what I mean. He's doing a lot of the financing around this area. I mean, the only one. But they're all a little bit suspect.

I think Dodi al Fayette, I think the Princess dies whatver? I think was a movie producer. Another good example. Now correct me if I'm wrong. Is he part of the ben Load not the ben Loden family. Is he part of the House of Sad Fayette I think was related to Koshogi.

Yeah, they're both part of the House of Sad, right along with the ben Loads, A part of the House of od I believe.

Yeah, I think I think you're right on that.

Yeah. A lot of Saudi influence, a lot of influence.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, Milchohn I got a book I think for Christmas that was about him and his uh, his his career and uh not only Hollywood, but being like an Israeli elligence asset, and I believe he was involved with. I want to say it might have been might have been the that's relevant to today. I think might have been the theft of nuclear material that helped to do helped set up the Demona power plant, the one that may or may not have been bombed today by Iran.

Well, I'm gonna have to once again, sir, I'm going to make an accusation that you are a special agent of the Dewey decimal system in the main of a lot, not only as the books. You have obviously knowledge of current events, and I definitely respect that. I have no idea what you're talking about. That you're gonna have to.

Help you what with today's events are Yeah.

I didn't miss all I missed all that. Yeah, I'm gonna need some This sounds interesting though.

Well, just with so Israel bombing Iran I think late last night into today, and then Iran responding. I believe Israel supposedly killed like a few of the high up Iranian military, and it might have even killed the negotiator, you know, for the you know, like for I guess whatever a cord they were going to try to come to to. Maybe the whole thing that Israel's been maintaining is that Iran is building nuclear weapons or is trying to start a program, the same program that supposedly is

Know, That's what I was going to say. Isn't this just a narrative they keep rehashing. I feel like we're just doing the sequel to this.

Yeah, pretty much. I mean and at one point, I mean, I think back in was it. I think when it was Obama's administration, you had the stuck snet, that whole virus thing that was part two, I think, unleashed by Israel to kind of to kind of incapacitate Iran's you know, networks and whatnot. And then they had killed Masade, had killed a bunch of their scientists, which apparently again Massad was in Iran again. Yeah, it's I mean, it's not

You know, in the what's his golf bndicap? Maybe he needs those mulligans.

I don't know.

I don't know his golf game. I know, I know he probably pads the numbers. I mean, I heard he's a good golfer, but who knows. It could be like mister Burns and the Simpsons constantly cheating.

I'm impressed by his ability to consume the volume of fast food he does and achieve the physical performance of walking around a golf course. Is still swinging that club? Yeah that there is a monumental effort. Yeah, that it sounds it sounds like this is not good. Uh, you know, these are not good things that are occurring your phil.

No, it seems like it's going to be, you know, just kind of like a free for all soon, depending on who's going to back Iran. You know, they said Iran has you know, hit areas of Tel Aviv that they hit. I think they might have hit Israeli. I don't think the massade, but I think they might have hit the I d F headquarters. I mean net Ya

To Huh this fella who this net in the I Fela? Is that the guy from Pennsylvania?

Uh? Net Yeah, who is? I've heard he's from Poland?

Didn't he go didn't he go to high school in Philadelphia? Am I getting that wrong? He might? I might be making that up. Pill I might be made the next looking to be like, don't ask me, you might be making that up. I agree, I might be making that. So where did he flee?

All?

Sorry?

He took he took a plane to Greece. According to what I saw that was shown on social media, they attract this plane. He bolted. He's barely hanging on by a thread for power, like they just I think the government just they voted not to vote them out. I think there was like a referendum or something some vote in Israel. But he's been battling corruption charges for a little more like over five years, I think, going back to at least twenty nineteen. Like the last time he

But I don't think I've seen that.

I do.

I do often, you know, coming and we see each other on Twitter. So maybe the algorithms are shutting that one down.

Oh, I had to. I sent it to people DM after a while and even that wasn't working. I had to email it to some people.

Well, I assume it's because this man's deep embedded into something here in America. Between nineteen fifty six and fifty eight and again between sixty three and sixty seven, his family lived in the United States in a suburb of Philadelphia where he attended high school and college.

Yeah, and Pennsylvania is where that nuclear material was stolen.

Inspiring.

Yeah, And like I said, there's the Milk shaw On connection. They are connected.

What nuclear material are we talking here? What is this?

Uh?

I think the acronym was n unc new mec. I think it was like the late sixties, early seventies. Milk shown was I know was involved, if not with the theft, but the variation of it. And I think like one of the Israeli's like key intelligence assets, was involved in it. It's been talked about a few times. And then you had the fact that when what Demona was capable of, there's a guy named Mordecai Venunu who was I believe like a scientist, exposed it and they basically kidnapped him.

All this sounds like business as usual. Bill. It sounds like I ran contra and never stopped and we're back to it. What is this night in eighty or twenty twenty five? What year is this.

Twenty twenty five? But you wouldn't know it sometimes. I mean I feel like it's the same cast of characters. It's the uh, you know, the you know the secret team that Fletcher Proudy wrote about sort of types, and you know the ones that Daniel Shehan mentioned with the Christic Institute. Like, it's all these guys. There's always these

Well, I was gonna say, what wouldn't you classify him in this whole category of this Material Assistance Command crew that was the Operation forty kind of crew, the the you know, the the folks that were training the anti cast Cubans. These are all like an element of these agencies and operations that they recruit from. They they and from my opinion, they comprise these things within things like Bill Colby's Material Assistants Command, you know, Bill Colby, the

Yeah, that's that's crazy. I wasn't a fan of that documentary that he did about his dad, the man Nobody.

Yeah, I thought that was that was real dumb.

Yeah, I mean I remember reading about Colby's dad years ago. I was only in high school at the time, but I was like, I just remember the name, and I was like, former CIA director, you can't find him. And then eventually when you find his body, it's a place you already like dredged in the water. And it made no sense. I mean, and at Colby. So one of the other things Colby was he was also legal counsel for the Newganhan Bank in Australia.

Yes, sir, it was illegal council. He was on that board, yep.

And I mean then later on considered to be you know, on the Franklin you know, the Franklin Credit Union, the whole the scandal.

With that point, when I first started looking at you, I would like to hear your thoughts in next because you know, I know he's gone on the subject. What was your thoughts when you first discovered Bill Colby is in league with a former Green Beret from the same Material Assistance Command Phoenix program, John de Camp and they're the ones uncovering the Franklin scandal. Get the fuck out of here. That was my reaction.

Yeah, with so I I read The Franklin Scandal probably like twenty is that is that the Camp Franklin Franklin Scandal's Nick.

Bryant, Nick Brian, there we go. I like that book, but yeah, they love the book. Yeah, I actually did.

And again, it was just one of those things on Twitter a couple of years ago St Patrick, who does Garrison, the magazine that does like a lot of like investigative stuff from like people like an r so, the the non mainstream alternative media type, and uh, he asked me to like basically compare the two books. So I wound up doing like reading the Franklins uh cover up again and comparing that to The Franklin Scandal and just kind of there was a lot of differences.

I mean, yeah, no, I agree, but I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on these differences.

I mean, I respected the camp, but I think he trusted cold. I mean it appeared like as the way the book was is like, oh, he really gave a lot of credence to Bill Colby. And then again it's like, okay, is it because he, you know, had an association with him that went so far back. I mean at the copy of the book I read, which was after like Oklahoma City and all these other things, gets in how to the camp I think represented the Montana Freeman at one point one of those militia groups.

Yeah, yeah, he said that he's got some suspect activities, Phill, He's got some real suspect activities. Yeah.

At one point he says Colby had told him something not to go meet with one of the journalists who was looking into the Clinton scandals, this guy named Ambrose Evans Pritchard, who actually wrote on the Clinton books.

I read and please repeat that name, Ambrose Evans Pritchard, Pritchard.

Yep, you got it. And he wrote it was called like the Secret Life of Bill Clinton. It was they called it like that instead of like Whitewaters, like the Blackwater scandals. So they mentioned Oklahoma City.

God, was this funded by the Melons?

I don't.

I don't know what Pritchard was. I think they tried to associate him with it, but he mentioned Oklahoma City. He talks about Kevin Ives and Don Henry, the Boys on the Tracks. He talks about Terry Reid, who is the Contra, the guy training the Contras out of Mina. And it was a good book. I mean, but he gets I think even mentioned Colby too.

But this legit economists journalist right on an economy pieces. Huh, what's what's this guy doing? Yeah? I think you got Yeah, let me bring it up. He's he's over in Brussels in nineteen ninety one. And we were talking about Brussels in the early nineties today, weren't we, Nick Yes, with the Dutrow stuff and the Solar temple stuff.

Right, Well, if I'm not mistaken, Brussels is where the massade took out. Gerald Bull, the guy who was I think he was a SCIGNI. He was a weapons guy and he was going to build Iraq's doomsday gun. Yep, that's him.

Yeah. He joined the Telegraph in ninety one, serving as Washington correspondent. Later European correspondent Russell's I'd like to see what date he got there.

Yeah, he was a kind of one of those one of those journalists who was the bane of like the Clinton white ass back in the nineties when when spin really kind of got you know, it's its modern kind of existence. Was the press secretary's during Clinton's time. But yep, they had a sacred life of Bill Clinton. So Colby said, do not trust him, Prichard and that Clinton We're gonna he's useful to us. That's how he said it to the camp, which I was kind of surprised about, you know, like,

You highly recommend this one, Hope, Phil. This is the Secret Life of Bill Clinton. I have not read this book. I have to check out.

I think it's a good book. I think it's a good it's a good jumping off point. But you know what, to me, I've read books that have been positive about Bill Clinton, and I've read ones that say, hey, there's a lot of dirt there, and you know, sometimes you have to you know, and again you talk about something like the Mina Mina drum running. There was a great sight.

And you know he got de Cocas was the one and shit right, yeah, well he was the guy to fail, right, you know what I mean. So yeah, I gotta ask you. I gotta ask you about the Oklahoma City theory out of this book. But before that, you mentioned Mina and Clinton. So yeah, you know, Barry Seal is infamously this guy who's flying in the Median you know, the coke for the Mina Arkansas stuff as part of those operations. Right, He's not the only one. He's the one that's known

You know.

He later goes on to do all these other things with the drug running everything else, like that he's doing a lot of these things through the twentiest Special Forces Group. We see that same National Guard Special Forces Group pop up in around Waco, Oklahoma City, all the operation Pack Hunt stuff. So that's that's interesting, right, But relative to all the drug running stuff, you know, I started looking at, you know, some of the genealogies of these folks. How

Yeah, I mean, that's that's the first time I've heard of that, but and it's probably something we won't hear about. Ken Burns is next. H that's hilarious series.

That's hilarious because Hed let's send me a message earlier he said we got to start stalking ken Burns to force him to do a mini series Cincinnati.

Yeah, I mean, let's say, I mean, I've seen some of the Civil War, I haven't seen really much of anything else of ken Burns, but I feel like he's that, you know, one of those guys, one of those pedlers of the narrative, kind of like.

He's the go to guy for your you know, your hardcore kind of deep dive into historical subjects like the Civil War, and I think he's on baseball and small or shit like that.

Well, like we were talking about, I mean, maybe even how Howard Blum and the true crime and history stuff with his books. Or Lawrence Wright, who I've mentioned before in his books and said I think.

That Lawrence right, Oh, definitely.

They Prime Day just released the book I think within the past six months, the Manchurian journalist that's supposed to be about rights work, and you know, I mean he's a guy. I mean I've read a handful of his books, Remembering Satan, which was about Satanic panic and it was in the Northwest, and it was these two girls who one accuses of dad, who's a cop. Actually no, they

Thing, to James Woods.

James Woods, Yeah, and.

The hero mm hmm ye saved us from nine to eleven right there.

Yeah, yeah, no with I remember watching that and then reading so many different books where I'm like, no, no, And even with the book I read a handful of years ago, We Believed the Children. It was one of the review books I read, and I was like, yeah, the guy just says, nope, all these kids they were manipulated by psychiatrists, didn't happen. And it's like all it would take just is one to poison the well, just to say you could say nine out of ted didn't happen,

I got a lot of words about what he did in like too. But the the for the mc martin stuff, it was the objective evidence of sexually transmit diseases that sold it for me.

Yeah, how can kids make that up that many? Yeah, in an area that was pretty affluent, like Manhattan Beach was money, you know, like that's yeah, you think these kids, I mean they're gonna have poor hygiene, you know, Like, I mean, you can't do that, Like STDs don't just pop up out of nowhere for sure.

Before we circle back to the Oklahoma Seady stuff and Timothy McVay because I'm deeply interested in pat On stuff these days and how all this stuff connects to Idaho and the white nationals up there, But one I skipped every Nick. I want to get your thoughts on when did you discover the Franklin scandal and what were your thoughts on the authors who have conveyed these stories to us.

Uh, that one dude who was like kind of like the kid with Bonacci.

Yeah, that's just if I'm even saying his name, right, Who was that one?

Paul Bonacci?

Yes, sir, Yeah, who is who's the guy who? That might have been the who's the thing you mentioned earlier?

John DeCamp or Nick Bryant.

Not Nick Bride. John de Camp was that him that was in that was like making videos about it and everything and like kind of making.

It a spectacle and showing himself going to court and like trying to get likes.

That's him. Yeah, he was the Silence documentary, right.

I think that was early version. That was an early version of a fucking piece of shit. Alex Jones.

There you go, and from a and from a guy. I just I just want to point this out because again, I just so many I think so much stuff gets over looked when we consider things such as that. And you know, John de Camp knew this man right here, I mean the non muppetized version, but they knew. Yeah yeah, Michael Quina. You know, so we're talking about these magic

I think they're actually two different police, the Temple of Set and O t O, two different beliefs.

That's an offshoot. It's a I'm saying they had they.

I couldn't say that really, Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm just being totally honest with you. I do not think they did know they I don't agree with us the croy shits on how it's emotional.

None of them do, right, That's why they start their own thing, right. So, but I'm saying they incorporate practices that they learned through the through the through the well.

Those clemic practices started before A lost the Crowley. It's a good thing.

Almost every order that fucks with magic, you're gonna have the same basic practices.

I understand. I just think there's an ode to it within these organizations, especially when you see them celebrate Croley Moss. Croly Moss has birthday October twelfth.

Oh, I don't know who you're saying celebrates that, the ot O those.

That's what I'm saying. These salamic organizations seem to you know, seem to venerate that as like almost a Saints day, you know what I mean?

Why does the other order do that.

What's that?

What are you saying? The other one does too? And I'm not sure what his birthday had to do with it, That's what it means.

No, I'm saying, these thelemic organizations, even if these practices go from before Curley, which I ideally understand. Is what I'm saying, is they still pay homage to Crowley despite the you know he's not the inventor of these practices, is what I'm saying. I realize that I'm saying they pay homage to him, is if he's a saint within the system.

No, I don't of them think that.

Actually, well, man, I don't know that's an accurate depiction. That's the way. That's certainly the way my perspective and understanding of what I've seen and read. I don't know they're gonna say that what I'm saying, I'm not. I'm not saying I don't think there's a.

Therese ones that are actually open and the guy is wrong.

No, I understand that. I understand that aspect. They have their own views. I've understand everyone has their own views on how these things need to be done. That's why we see so many offshoots and organizations Mormons too. Again, it's the ceremonial magic aspect that everyone has their own perspective of it. Seems well, they.

Don't even think he crossed the Abyssal people so that he has nothing to say.

Well, you know what I'm saying, son.

At the temple of people that were is that the key comes of people actually believe that too, because I've read the one book I have read on a keynote that he wrote. He seems to like Curly, he seems to like Croley.

I'm just saying, there's people that are not believe that I actually did anything that he said he did.

I'm fine a lot. I'm just not I think a Keno's I would I put him in the curly department in my opinion.

Oh, I don't know. I don't know about him.

But I'm just telling you there's people that do not believe that guy uh is everything.

Well, I have no doubt we saw that one with that whole war he had right with it formed the the one what's the tiphony and folks.

Right, Yeah, I don't know why that exactly.

For, but I understand they had a beef. Right, they had an offshoot beef because him and that leader were you know, they were going at it, right, I have no idea what was it that Kenneth Grant? Is that his name? Yes, Oh, there's him from the tales of these things. That's what I'm saying. I get, I get the fact Curly is not liked by all. I'm just saying the practices and homage or to me seem seemed

You know me, Well, I could tell you.

I can tell you Oto is going to use the Knox formula, and I can tell you other organizations aren't. Because that's his own formula. So if you want to start getting into specifics and magical formulas like you're saying, I can actually tell you're wrong.

You wouldn't know because you haven't been in one of these places.

I'm not trying to be addictd but I'm just I'm just telling you the truth.

I'm just in a place.

You know anything about magic and formulas and rituals. Everybody has.

I'm just commenting on what I read in the Aquinot book that he wrote. That's all I can That's all I can comment on. That's a sample. I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it.

And like a lot of people get lumped up into this same thing when it's not the same thing.

Well, yeah, I just the only thing I'm commenting on is, you know, staments. Folks make their own accord, right.

Most of them don't know what they're talking about when they do make those statements. Well, it's like at a lot of times, like I can see what's going on inside of these buildings.

Hear well, I know, I hear you. I see what folks say about Mormon temples. I've been in Mormon temple, so I understand what you're saying.

Ignorance.

And that's why I'm saying I only I'm only stating things up folks with their own accord My statements of for example, Levey and relationship with Tuesday Welder, only statements that LaVey makes himself. So you know what I mean?

Yeah, that makes sense.

I will be the first to say I don't understand their magic, nor do I care to, right, you know what I mean, It's not my my thing? Right?

So could I make two quick points? Absolutely, Jimmy Page, we loved Alaster Crowley.

That's what I'm saying. These people tell tell us they do, right, That's what I'm saying. Like, that's the I focused on the people that are willing to tell me, like I like to do some Crowley. I like Crowley stuff to to have those imaginations of the Crowley stuff. We're gonna I don't know you necessarily right, but I'm willing to take their words for it.

Didn't I mean, they said what was the rumor with what's the name John Bonham's death that they said that Jimmy Page was performing some sort of ritual that yeah, that bottom that bottom died from alcohol poisoning or choking. The death on his own bombit something like that they said that my.

Uncle's friend actually was literally in that dude's house and he said the guy had the fucking ship all on the floor and everything, and he had the fucking stuff thrown on the floor, like the was no joke into the ship.

M And then I just finished I think it was last week. Uh, based off of one of your shows, Uh, the you Call to Elvis.

Yeah, with Miguill's Connor.

Well, yeah, So I got to the review company that I've been with the longest. They sent out like a list and they let me choose and it was on the list, and I was like, oh, I'm putting in. I'm putting in. And I got it and I read it and it was like one of the best parts of it is the one religion that Elvis I thought was bullshit scientology, which of course his wife and his daughter Paul Joy.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So I kind of brought that up to Miguil because there's an infamous story of where Elvis had it out with l Ron. I don't know there's validity to it, but again, it seems to be somewhat of alid because you know, Elvis did seem to have some early relations with scientology along with Priscilla, right, so, and she was a lifelong scientologist.

Yep, yeah, I mean that didn't like it book, No, he didn't. He thought it was just, I mean, just a lot of bullshit.

There's there's you all go ahead. No, no, no, Well, here's what that concerns me, because you know, this whole off shoot of the scientology, this processed church situation. Right, He's way too close to that circumstance for me to you know. For I'm just saying like he's got a lot of friends that have that same, like at least forward attitude towards scientology at the time because he's his spiritual guide. Elvis a spiritual guide and and would travel

One of the stories I read about him, because I haven't seen much with him. I've saw Doctor Strange Love, which is brilliant, Panther and I saw I've never seen the Pink Panther movies.

Oh they're massively terrible, but I mean I've seen too.

And I saw being there, the one that was written by Polanski's buddy Jersey Kazinski, because I know Dane has spoken about him before.

Oh, yes, that's an interesting topic, is it not?

Oh?

God?

Yeah.

And then the fact that Sellers in the sixties had I think they said six heart attacks off amio nitrate.

No ship, Well there you go. That's those Phil Those are the videos you know, once again you know exactly what I'm talking about. So those are the videos that they didn't want out right, yep amal nitrates obviously, Uh what they's prominent within the community. I believe they call it poppers? Is it poppers?

Yeah? They actually initially when AIDS first came out, they thought it was something related to able nitrate poppers.

I'm not, Well, here's the deal. I'm not convinced that that's not playing a role in destroying folks immune system. I mean, you're huffing this weird chemical stuff. You mean to tell me that's not going to have long term effects. I'm not saying it's the direct cause. I'm saying, you mean to tell me something to have long term effects?

Right, yeah, definitely would.

I mean, but that again, it sounds like Peter Zeller's it did, right. You said, how many strokes you have?

Six heart attacks?

Or how many the six heart attacks? Holy shit?

There? In what instance.

Reminds me of Chris Farley's character from The The Bears. There in the Saturday Night Line, and it was always getting a heart attack, right.

Yep, yeah, yeah, it's uh, I mean that's insane or like I mean, like I said, Bob Evans had the three strokes that and then is ninety eight and crazy enough his right, I think a couple of rooms over right next to his room Cedar Sinai in California was Frank Sinatra. Sinatra died right next to Robert Up. He didn't even know until him and his son were watching the Seinfeld finale in his hospital room and the news broke in and say, Frank Sinatra died.

And Cocaine's drug.

Yeah, Cocain's a hell of a drug, Rick J.

So what do you know about this Galler fellow? What's what's his deal? Soy like, because he first meets Elvis in sixty four and then they become fast friends, he becomes a spiritual god and mentor they start traveling. He starts traveling with Elvis, So what's the deal he?

You know, they bond over like theological and you know, esoteric religion, you know, religious discussions. But I knew at some point, I mean I know, at some point I should say, based off Miguel's great research, that at some point the Memphis Mafia, you know, the good buddies of Elvis and Priscilla and the Colonel did not like this guy. First of all. They also didn't like the fact that Elvis could get so, you know, pensive on religion and all these topics. And at some point they.

Kind of like he's kind of influential, right, so you kind of like, there's gonna be certain folks that want to dictate what he's saying to folks, right, So what you're saying makes a lot of sense of thinking that regardless if I may interject there, sir.

Yeah, no, no, no, absolutely, I think you know. And this is one of the things when I was as I was kind of like with every book I do that I do a review on, I take notes, and all I could think of is, like Elvis, all he wanted was like peace of mind. He wanted like that, you know, mental just kind of like break and well, everybody wants a piece of them, whether it be the Colonel, who basically I heard was a degenerate, degenerate gambler and died broke to whatever time Priscilla wanted.

From him and his father, Colonel Tom Barber YEP, Colonel Tom Partner was he Ananzi.

I don't know what he was. I know he wasn't American.

No one does, right, that's not no one knows what it was now nobody else.

And they say Tom Hanks's accent in the movie was horrific.

But he kept Elvis' career going. You know, Elvis recorded a bunch of albams where he went the army, and he kept his career going. And this is the dude who was behind Elvis this entire musical career, at least right he was, I.

Mean a big part of it. And then towards the tail end, one of the big influences was a producer named Jerry Wintrop, who later on produced some of Sinatra shows. And at one point, there's one of the stories because I read Wintrop's on a biography which is called You'll Know. I think it is You'll Know I'm dead when I stopped talking something along those lines.

And well, it's funny, it's funny you mentioned Sinatra, because it is allegedly Sinatra who gives Helvis the green light to be back in the biz, if you will, when he once he gets back from his army service. Because a lot of folks were apparently threatened that he was a bit of a wild card, right, so you know, you know you'll see him come back and do this

And then now here's another you know, connection is the fact that Sea Bring serves as the inspiration for Warren Batty's character in the movie Shampoo. Yes, sir, and Warren Beatty is good friends with Bob Evans. Bob made his career, you are correct. And also I believe the guy who wrote the screenplay for Shampoo was Robert Town who uh wrote Chinatown.

You started batting three for three? Not in it? Right? Chinatown?

He was?

He was Bob Evans, you know, old Cocaine, Bob's go to script doctor too, right, Like he was the guy he always wanted to work with him, right, he always wanted to work with Robert town and Polanski. These were you know, he was these was trusted circle, right, Jack Nicholson, Marlon Brando, you know, these are his trusted circle of folks. You know there's a you know, he's got a number of he's got a stable of actors that he that he promoted directors as well, Coppola. It's weird to me.

Yeah, I mean Roger Corman was a little Choppa Horrors and you know, just a lot of those cheesy early sixties movies.

Yeah.

Rus Meyer was here's the one I think he did, what was it? Trying to remember the one second beyond the Valley of the Dolls he did the movies with like The Big Breast of Women was well, that was Seinfeld. That was a Seinfeld thing at one point, too, all.

Right, they both did right because Corman did the Nurses movies too, right.

Well, there was a thing at one point where certain directors getting their start had to do either like a slasher movie or did a cheesy like softcore porn movie like I've been rightman who did Ghostbusters did? I think it's called Cannibal Girls or something like that.

That's precisely what I'm talking about. So I see this epicenter of activity surrounding Cocaine Bob, surrounding his buddy Corman, who still I believe is alive and very powerful within the industry or had been in recent years still, And they're the ones give them to start to all these folks, right, And the financing for I think a lot of Korman's movies, much like Cocaine Bobs, are coming from folks like the Columbo crime family.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least, not at all. And speaking of the Columbos, it just came up. There is bidding war going on for the Texas Chainsaw Massacre franchise.

Precisely one of the ones I'm talking about right there, as you can see, that's one of the ones that it's well documented they finance right.

Oh yeah, nobody may made a dollar from that in terms of the actual like actors and directors until I think New Line bought the New Line Cinema bought the rights in the eighties because they had to fight for it. And Brian's I think it was Brianston Pictures of whatever it's called. The distribution company run by the Perino brothers who also did Deep Throat, had stolen money and yeah, took Tobey Hooper and all those guys well over a decade to finally collect money. And I don't even think

Gilligan. Gilligan never made a dime from Gilligan's Island. Did you know that that sounds that was?

That was Sherwood Sherwood Schwartz who did the Brady Bunch, the Brady Kids never got a dime like in residuals.

And that producer was he's one fat cat wright And none of them actors ever got any royalties.

Yo, one of those people.

Just imagine how many times those shows would played Gilligan's Island and Brady Childhood.

It was so it's insane, and by then it was already like a classic.

Years old by then, right years old.

By that point that parents are looking at was watching that shit young.

But that's why you got to like look into some of these things, like it's I remember reading this.

This was so weird.

I remember reading so one of my one of my favorite bands was like an obscure band from Memphis, Big Star, and they did the song in the Street that became the theme song to that seventies show. Now get back to college aspect of things, and I'll give you another

Was it the cocaine?

Oh, he didn't grow.

You need a sample?

And uh he Actually there's a story. There's a great book called every I think it's called Everybody Loves You when You're Dead, and it's about this guy, Neil Strauss, and it was like these assorted tales and like music and everything like that, and one talks about Alex Chilton going up and basically bringing groceries to Dennis Wilson's house and it was when the Mansons were there.

I'm glad you robbed the Wilson's. I say it was saving them for last. But Brian Wilson died this week obviously, so I wanted to get into a little bit of that. Yeah, a couple of days ago, right, Uh yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, well you.

Guy didn't What was that sly Stone from sly in the Family Stone?

Oh yeah, is this Semester salandad? No, sly Stone the everyday people dance to the music, you know, totally totally unrelated from Sylvester Saloon. Is what you're saying, not a stillone still, I think so. I mean, I mean guy had a good head of hair too. They said he had just finished. He just finished to him like the screenplay of his life, and he passed away from uh.

I don't think it was cancer. I think it was another long disease.

I don't know if I showed you this last time. You hear Phield? But whose son? Do you think that isn't the right?

Well, that's stage stallone, but that again all allegedly.

Looks a lot like John Travolta. So with Gay, well, I think that's with this whole group of these cultures especially. I just don't think there's sexuality is a thing with him right, Like it's more of a fluid thing.

I think, yeah, he might just be anything that moves.

Yeah, who's sticking one to wear? Is this that's an afterthought? I don't care.

I think the woman who it was a woman who got him into scientology when he did her Plastic Bubble. I think it was his co star in that.

And she was in the Devil's Brain with Old Anton Levey as a technical advisor, starring none of them Bill Shantner, Bill Shatner, well, Billy shats So when speaking of all the scientology of seventies films and Roger Corman. Have you seen the film.

Just You're You're Back?

Have you?

Have you seen the film Get Shorty?

I loved that movie a long time ago.

Oh, great movie, Dudel.

Sony, so many great performances in that.

So not only is this one of the films on my list of the reasons why I think Gene Hackman was a sign intologists, because you can only act opposite a sign another scientologist so many times from on that list, you know, Will Smith, Tom Cruise, Johnstrable to the list goes on. So I do love the film on the list, but the the character he plays in there, in my opinion is Roger is a party of Roger Corman, right,

Yeah, that was I mean, that was a that was a great movie.

And I think them, oh it's great, it's real great. Yeah, I mean it's I think we're seeing a peek into the action, right, Like that's kind you know with Cocaine Bob. Right, that's kind of the environment Cocaine Bob was operating, and right when he's trying to finance the Cotton Club movies, we see the same kind of situation. I mean, I'm not saying there was a travolt guy in the mix of that. I'm just saying, like the narrative, the overall

Yeah, well, I think what's name? So that was get shut. It was based off an Elmore Leonard book, and I think Elmore Leonard, you know, Detroit guy. But I think he was he was tuned into the corruption in Hollywood.

He was locked in. Huh.

He went from writing westerns because he did three ten to Yuma, the one that they redid with him the l and Russell Crowe.

That was pretty good for a Russell Crowe film. That was pretty good.

Yeah, but then you know he had done somebody else, I mean, Get Shorty. And then he did the sequel, which was be Cool.

I never saw that one, but it did helssing. You're not Phil, You're not missing anything. Be Cool is I mean, as far as sequels go, it's one of the worst.

Yeah.

He also did that one, Justified. That was the one that the Rock was in, right, I think rock.

What was the name of it again?

Be Cool?

Be Cool?

There's there's I'll just leave it at this. There's a lot of new Obbians in that film, Nick, with a lot of scientologists.

Oh you should cover we should go it's.

I mean it would be funny at least, right, Yeah.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It might not just be into dating. Yeah no, no, I never saw that.

I Uh.

I remember when I came out.

I was just like the city, like they did a bad job at even sequels. I mean, just like the This is Terrible, Yeah, It's not good.

Which which was the backstory I think to be cool is that it's after Chili Palmer, you know, tribolpous character decides to do a sequel to the movie that they show with the end of the movie and it bombs, and then he gets involved in a whole record thing, and you got Vince Fallen who plays some sort of like half assed gangster. And I think the Rock plays. I think the Rock almost plays like another version of James Gandalfini's character from the first one.

Hey, they were trying to do that, right, but aren't they kind of giving us a kind of a little look behind the scenes of Oh disregard. I think I just mashed together two films. I mashed together the plot line of that film in a Hollywood homicide in my brain hole, because maybe I'm wrong. They one of them. It seems like it's death Row Records, right, but I think that's.

That might have been the one with Harrison Ford and Josh Hartnett.

Yeah, and Dwight Yoakum. Actually, Dwight Yoakam plays a pretty in Your Dirty Cops.

In panic room. I remember that, and I think it was a sling blade. See my frozen You're good now, good now.

And I frozen, solling prophecy. There we go, you're back. I'm back, yeah, yes.

Yeah, I've between these interruptions, I forgot where we at? Can we circle back to Elvis?

Yes, let's go back to Elvis.

I didn't know what we're at? Where else we're at? There again, I'm i'm my brain hole is going in out with my interweb's connection here. Apparently, so you.

Said scientology, scientology freezes.

It's the magic word. And you can't say that Xenia will. Xenia will smite us all phil Xenia will. So there's a fellow who's involved. I know he's Boyd Rice is underling. I think Boyd Rice is Church of Satan now, so I think this is the Church of Satan. Guys, Michael moynihan, you know he threatened your Bush number one when he was the President's Secret Service, did investigation, No big deal. Boyd Rice did the same thing when he delivered a pig's head to the wife of Gerald Carter when when

Human you should do like a spin off of that, but kind of like look at it in a different way.

I don't disagree, sir, I don't go after that sounds like a future recult reaching.

Non biased look at Elvis. I think it would be really fucking interesting.

I think Julia has some good insights too. She brings a lot to the table on this subject as well. Yeah, she looked at this subject a long time.

She's fantastic.

Dude. Anytime someone brings some new Charles Manson stuff to my face here in my brain hole, which that's what happened here with Miguel Connor, because it hit me in the face like a brick wall. Dude, I was like, what's going on right now? Did you say Elvis Presley and Charles Manson the same sentence? I was like, what happened?

I was like, Yo, that don't sound good at all.

Now, sure, ship, it's a thing.

It's a thing like yelly, a way to contact each other.

Well, it doesn't seem like they should be in the same circle. But checked out this quote from Manson here, right, so he you know they're doing this interview with mooyn in a hand It says that you actually hang out with him? Sure, why not? I hang out with all of them people. That's my neighborhood. I lived in Elvis Presley's house. Man, he ran me out of the yard. I don't know why I started talking like what I presumed Charles Manson. This sounded like I lived in Elvis

Yo, did he eventually did he eventually go to the Manson Murdo? Did he eventually go to that mar Yeah? That was right?

Yeah, is it again within days that long ago?

Yeah, yeah, I was like, Yo.

If I would have been asked that ship, that would have been like, Yo, we gotta spread this out a little bit.

Fa because it's gonna look real. Suspect show up a few days later, nobody's gonna.

Be like what the fuck exactly, it's a two months You gotta put your you gotta put your feet in those you know, those blue sweat shoes. What was Elvis doing there and what was his concern? What was his motivations?

Fast to right?

But let's also like just think though, back in the nineteen sixties, I'm pretty sure the l a p D Was not that keen on keeping crime scene. Like I'm pretty sure those crime scenes were almost like a fucking picnic, you know, like just to bring people for it. Wasn't that sort of we gotta.

Do that that, you know, the whole phil when Philip Van Adams on the job, you know, they were.

Phil that when you took When I heard your show on that, I was like, holy shit, is that all right?

Richard Wally was also there. He was the first guy on see it at the Tate Polanski House. He's the first officer On scene at Nicole Brown Simpson.

You know, if you think about it, regardless the bodies being moved rid of it.

But like I would even say the Idaho four case and that that case, it's almost like the same deal with the fuckery off people just walking around ship, people.

Being there for a while before anything was really gone.

Dude. I actually was very close I think to when I was doing that analysis their day and writing for a future show, comparing the actual crime scenes of the forensic just a pure forensic of both all these scenes. You hit it, You hit it right on the head. There's or that is exactly the same thing we see in the Manson scene, the oj S, the Orental James Simpson scene, or Nicole Brown Simpson and Wrong Golden scene

Yeah, it's almost like a script you can see being replayed, I think almost.

And when you how they do this, I think, yes, sir. And when you got cocaine, Bob's buddy on the job for running the propaganda, Old Graydon Carter and airmail and ploying Howard Bloom. Then then you know you got yourself a nice uh, you got yourself a nice cover up going on here.

I mean just from things that I've I've looked at and then things I've heard you talk about. It's just like I just thought, this just seems stretching.

Dude. It's dude. It's identical to the way the Island one calls go down. Dude. So let if I made this real quick on that comparison, because you do bring up a great point there, Nick, So the Oldel James Simpson case at ten thirty two pm from ten forty two pm, a quarter of the state of California. Yeah, I'm gonna geek out for a moment. Caine's ins over a Kane Be's the Purge. He's instituted a geek meter, geek geek off meter for me, so you know, he tries to bring me down a couple of notches. My

Right.

So, and again we see them responding to the scene, not for a murder. Despite this is almost two hours after the murder occurred, and almost, I would argue, precisely almost two hours after the murder occurred. They're on the Bundie residence of Nicole Brown Simpson. They go there for a robbery in progress. No, there's no noises being made anymore, there's no robbery in progress. They go there and they find Nicole Brown Simpson's neighbor holding her dog over her

That's crazy?

Well, another I'm thinking in terms of weird graphic crime scene where there was like total trampling of evidence would be the Jeffrey McDonald's case. He read my mind with

And let me let me add a little bit of let me add little sprinkles on the Sunday you just made their built. So we were talking about Gunderson earlier, and I find it very question. The first thing Gunderson

Should Yeah, it's it's tough to tell where Gunderson truly lays it in a lot of these things. Was he someone who was trying to get answers or was he someone who's like a double agent of things. I mean, he was a guy who was like I think ran the La LA office of the FBI. I mean, he was like someone high up in the FBI. And then you know, becomes a guy who talks about satanic ritual abuse and gets I think even consultant in terms of

Sure, well, if I may add to that point, would you believe I'm sure you since you followed Dana Dudo and Ronnie Jules TwixT account over there. Specifically in her work, she recently uncovered a document from June fifteenth, nineteen sixty seven, at the Straight Theater in the Hayden, Nashbury that puts the Grateful Dead that is their manager's son at the manager at the time and president of their music publishing company was a fellow by the name of Alan trist

Yeah, that's I mean, that's after a while, it's like, Okay, when is it no longer a coincidence?

And yeah, so for sure, but when is it? Like because Gunderson's like, oh, the Satanics, I've never heard of it. Let me let me learn about these things. Really ted, it sounds like you're going back to the late sixties deep Intoto studying the Satanic cold activity.

Right, Yeah, he might have been, Yeah, he might have been blowing smoke.

And it's how does the hire of the processed Church's attorney for Jeffer McDonald, how does that go down? Yeah? No idea is he is he? Is he fooled? Because if he's fulled, he's not a very good detective. Phil. Yeah, I'm not trying. I'm not trying to minisure anyone else's opinion of gunners. And I'm just saying, as it's a former private detective myself, I'm like, it's not a very good detective. If he didn't you know, you know, he

Yeah, And then they said he saw an Esquire magazine article that was on his coffee table that was talking about the Manson murders, and you know, so he wrote pig or something on you know, on the wall. Even though the wound he had could have killed him. But they're like, no, no, no, he put it to a

Correct me if I'm wrong, sir.

He do this man too, right, Aquina, it's the eyebrows gotta bills.

They were all. I'm all I'm saying is Jeffer McDonald was a Special Forces Green Bray doctors signed to Fort Bragg at the very same time that a Kino is down there at the Fort Bragg jfk uh Special Forces Warfare Center. I try to get him better, dude. That's the best. That's the best. Like, dude, I worked on the eyebrows for a minute. I was trying to get him.

Really even trying to get.

It wasn't easy.

You're like this, this is good.

That's the best. Like, I get it. I mean, it's they're kind of croaked. They're not. I didn't achieve the a Kinno crooked nature of his eyebrows. But you should have represented with the eyebrows. Oh that's that's funny, dude. I can just paste them over these that's even better. I like that idea.

He's got some crazy.

Here's the thing. Here's the thing. If you look back at his like high school yearbook, did he had them wild eyebrows back.

I'm not like hope for guys, you want to get this ship done. But yeah, you should have went yeah.

I mean I think he leaned into a little bit. But they weren't straight back then. They were little bit. They were definitely that they that it's like a callous, dude, he has like a callous in his eyebrow or something, you know, what I mean, like a thing.

His eyebrows. His eyebrows looked like they could have been like I mean, they could have compared to like Fred Goldman's mustache.

You ever see Fred Goldman's got a legendary mustache. Dude, that's up to that's legendary, dude anytime. That's what's the deal with Fred Goldman? What's he into?

Goldman? I don't know. All I just remember was I mean, because again I believed in the you know, I really was. I believed OJ was innocent, and then then I believe that he was guilty. Then I believe the ad help. And now now after listening to one of your your last shows with that, I'm like, yeah, I never thought he acted alone if he did it, But I'm like, now I'm kind of convinced, you know, he didn't do it.

But yeah, I don't know if I may, if I may add a detail to my last o J Simpson the Orenthal J Simpson the Great OJ Debate, which was actually, you know, Julia causing Pete suggested that I'm glad you did because that was a great show. I enjoyed it. I did forget, you know, in my in my attempt to maintain a narrative of my brain hole and have the conversation and you know, pull up things. You know,

I remember. The one guy who I remember because later on he would come up talking about issues with the FBI crime lab was Frederick Whitehurst. I remember that he testified the OJ case, but I don't remember if it was about d t A or not.

Well, I think they had a different guy from the FBI that the prosecution had. Again we're talking about different offices I think within the FBI. So like the prosecution witness just didn't show up nearly. Now, we're just not going to come into that because obviously there's E. T. E. D. T and an. You bastards did that, you.

Know, I mean between what was it van at Er walking around with the violet blood?

You had you all not just not just oriental J. Simpson. He had the victims files too, it later came to find out.

And then you had basically what was it like the two you had Dennis Fung who was like the guy later on the thing shook the defense team's hand after he test fled and after they just like totally torched him on the stand. And I think his assistant was like it was her first week. She was like a rookie. I mean it was you know, you couldn't have written at You're described better.

What you're describing, well, I think they did. I think that is a scripture. I think what you're describing is the machinations of something that was intended to fail from the beginning. So why is Firman there in the first place? You know, he basically gets assigned to the robbery homicide. I think it's three months four months prior. It's not long prior. Yeah, he's doing traffic most of his career.

He was a guy who tried to get a psyche discharge within his first two years and tried to get disability for it, you know.

Yeah, And he's the guy that everyone knew, including the Prosecutor's office, was having an affair withh Nicole Brown Simpson in the court into an internal affairs investigation report in numerous members of both the LAPD and the OSCARS office were aware of comments and statements or witnessed things that exhibited that he was indeed having an affair with the Cole Brown Simpsons.

That wouldn't surprise me in the least.

It was ignored because now I wanted That's what I'm saying. The whole thing was blown up from the beginning, and he was he blew up both the case for both the prosecution and the defense, because by the time he hits the stand and for the prosecution in March, the defense has already laid out a lot of this questionable evidences we're already discussing here, right, Yeah, I mean, the.

Whole thing was they were trying to build I mean, talk about scripted the confrontation between him and I think at one point they wanted a flee Bailey to go against him.

And you know Bailey, is that the guy that was running that I ran contrabank out of Miami back in ninety three, the year prior to the Oarenthal J. Simpson case, that that athlete Bailey.

Yeah, but probably before he got this marred, because I know that happened.

It's why all these connections of the same damn shit, right, I mean again, it's the fact that Bill Colby's son is the chief witness for the prosecution against Thornthal. J. Simpson should tell it tells me this that when so Oj gets him and Nicole separate, I think it's ninety one,

Meanwhile, Nicole Denise is dating Fiata.

There you go, sir, there you go, a known hitman, right, unknown hitman who's later dragged in by the defense in the case.

It's crazy, I mean a lot of crazy interlocking connections. I mean, and then what is it?

I mean?

I always found it interesting that both Cato and Paula Barbieri both wound up doing like basically saftcore porn movies.

After the fact, Well the deal, you make a deal with the devil, sir, you got to pay off that debt, and that devil is Bob Cocaine Evans.

Well, yeah, he's lost up on his career, kind of went the ship.

Kata is lucky he didn't. He didn't, you know, have to get the old Bob poop h you know, slide campaign going on there. Legend has it Bob built an intro good two stories slide system in his vedroom where he could stand at the top and shipp in the hooker's mouse at the bottom of the slide. Yeah, Cato is lucky he didn't get that treatment, you know what I mean, very true, you may have. I'm not sure. I'm just saying that Cocaine Bob's even this mixed him.

Well, I think, I mean, if anything else, Cocaine and Hollywood go together from the beginning I mean just I know.

You're gonna say cocaine and Bob Evans go together like peanut butter.

Well, he tried playing down like in the two books I read, he kind of plays down his cocaine usage. You know that it was all for his his you know, his back or whatever it was, and you know this and that, and I said, it's part of It's like I think, you know, I think you're just trying to make it working like an opiate. Yeah, like that he wasn't possibly like one of the yeah, like, he wasn't one of the people that George Young was referring to in the movie Blow.

You know, like when it's funny you say that, because I think one of the fellas in the movie Blow, the guy that essentially is part of the team that you know, turn turncoats against George Young. There who Nick Nick knows George Young. He's met him before in prison. Really yeah.

Yeah, when I got there right before he left, was there for maybe a year year and a half before he left.

I think that's when he was he Brew probation and got put back in there, is when you saw him.

I think, I think, Yeah, I think you're right, because after that. I think he basically kind of disappeared.

Well, yeah, there's.

That.

Did they get him again? I don't know, but yeah, he might have been there, like you're saying.

Well, know what, I know, I looked at I looked at when he when this happened. So he broke probation by going back out to California when he got out the first time, he went out to California and had a birthday party with his old hair salon drug dealing buddy, so pee wee. Herman's character in the film is based upon these two brothers, and they're still alive and well

Isn't it weird that to himself and everything that guy did.

He really he's living on high class then, huh. I guess you're running the Median coke for the Iran concrat stuff for many years. They're gonna they're gonna show you some gratitude, I suppose, right.

Yeah, he was like in a building where where all the new people come in and then they get like kind of uh, they get determined where they're gonna go with whip building and everything.

It's almost like.

And like to get a like to even get a job in that building for some reason, and to get like a kid kids like if you're a porter, or you'll get your own room too, or you might just share it with one other guy. That's like a big like holy fuck, how did you pull out off? If that sounds crazy, but this is you know, how it

I feel like that's what the mob gets, right is that kind of like what you see in the Mob movies, Like uh, they get that special, like that same kind of special. Fell Yeah, good Fellas well.

They so here's the thing they used to or the story guys that they they put a stop to that. But like in Goodfellas, what Henry Hill had with Paulie and Johnny Dio and those guys was, yeah, they would kick kick money to the guards who were getting paid you know dog shit.

Yeah, I don't know if I'm buying that film no offense or because they put what that one crime boss me cam Buttoner, North Carolina. They put him in with Bernie Madoff. They were they were sale mates together, were Sell's wasn't it a who was it?

Was it?

Persico was the Columbo crime family boss always ship you're right start, So I imagine those two fellas were living high on the hog right.

Well at Persico got transferred there was so he winds up getting convicted in the commission case. He's in uh Lompunk and there's a huge article written I think it was the Daily News breaking about how the fact it was Persico one of the guys from the Westies, and I think it was a couple of guys from Roy de MEO's crew in the Gambinos. We're all kind of hanging out the plant in a rock band. Persico's g

It's right outside VanderBurg Air Force Base. I know exactly what you're talking about.

So that led to eventually they're like, we got a transfer, like this doesn't look good. But I mean they had issues where I think, like New York answers, there's one guy who I think I think smuggled his boys out his sperm maut to impregnate his girlfriend and they're like okay, and then because he's bribing a guard and they're like, yep, we got to put a stop to that. Not saying it doesn't still happen, but I think it's a little less obvious, like when a place would become fed, you know, like he.

Took it down a couple of notches. Huh, Phil, you are you are, indeed and man with a lot of details, because I forgot which mob boss that was, and you, as always were corrects are with the When it comes to your mob knowledge, it's extensive. It's made off closest prison Chum Columbo, crime boss, Family of Family, crime Boss, car Mine Persecuka, the Snake.

The Snake, Yeah, he's the one who lived the longest out of anyone who got got the one hundred years sentenced. A lot of those other guys were dead within a handful of years.

Some match made in hell right, made off of that guy made.

Off who never said a bad word about the Mets owners the will Palms, even though he screwed us for over a decade.

Oh that's a story I'm have to hear some some timer in the future. That sounds interesting, Phil.

Did you know Vincent battle Lamente? You know who he is? Have you ever heard anything?

Wasn't he?

It sounds like a guy who was at in the Bananos maybe And when that name sounds familiar to me.

I was left up with that dude too. Oh wow, Brooklyn, I.

Wonder if he was related to the Sicilian boss. There was a guy Gaetano about the alimente.

He can y'all help a dumb an Palachian man out when it comes to spelling these names?

What what?

How do you can we spell that for me?

Yeah? I just found the Here we go.

So this is a Banano guy because the they're you know, Bananos. That's as far as these families go. Columbos and Bananas are my favorites as far as interest in things that their activities.

Good answer, Sorry, Donnie Brasco, I was, you know, thinking about I mean because they got kicked on the mission. They got kicked up the commission for that, you know, almost making an FBI agent.

And that ties in I don't want to go, well you will go. Since we were already talking about Elvis, that ties into Operation Fountain Pen, the undercover operation Elvis was involved in with the FBI. There. So he dies and the Operation Fountain Pen mobsters get busted the next day.

Right, August sixteenth, nineteen seventy seven.

Yeah, the next day that the syndicate I believe was they were calling themselves, they get busted by the FBI. So this operation they called Operation Fountain Pen then continues on and involves into the largest multi jurisdiction, the longest running investigation in FBI history, out of the FBI's Indianapolis Field Office and one of the things that spawns is Operation ab Scam, right, And another thing that spawns is

Right.

So I just think that's interesting that started with Elvis. I think it's still going today and I have that's a story for a different day. But I did whenever that little bit the other day with Troublemaker Joanah must show there in Operation pat Gun and Idaho Nazis.

So how did that go?

Oh dude, that was a fantastic conversation. Do I got so much more ship to read about from.

That, because I know, I know he's another one with a photographic memory.

I'm I'm I'm actually afraid to invite Phil and Joanah in the same conversation because I might, I might, my old brain on might blow up. Dude.

You probably just sit back and just like chill out and see nothing.

I know, but the amount of new information I had tabs on. Dude, here's here's one from there night that I thought was kind of odd. You fellas might enjoy you all familiar with the actress Melissa jo and Hart Sabrina the teenage.

Witch was her swimming coach.

No ship, Okay, I did not know that.

All right, llys out there, what is it, mister Crowley, my man teacher?

Come on, Oh, that's right, that's what you said first about Alistair Curley from that guy right the Osbourne songs. Yeah, apparently she's remember that Nashville trans apocalypse shooter at the Christian school two years you maybe three years ago.

The one that were sitting on the manifest.

There you go, sir Aubrey maybe something?

Yeah, I think Aubrey I forgot.

Would you believe Melissa john Hart was unseen saving the children from that school. Oh Jeffreeze in my back.

No, no, you you got.

Okay, I'm glad. I'm glad that broke your gents brain holes as much as you are you talking about Dan. I was like, no, yah, I had so many tabs from that conversation that it was a great conversation. Folks to check it out. But I joked at the end, it's like, I got I got seven, I got seven tabs open that are on Melissa Joan Hart. Really then I got seven Melissa jo and heart related tabs open. So it was that was that shocking of a revelation to me, Like, why is she like, of all people, dude,

I'm actually wondering if maybe these.

Would you like to see a video? I'll bring up a video.

If you'd like go for it. Yeah I saw it too, Yeah, yeah, go.

Ahead, I'll bring the video. White white shirt.

I just wonder if it's like you know, when people are like, uh, when you.

Hear Lady Gaga a bitch about like this interview that was years ago, everybody thought like, oh, she's so cool, she doesn't want to have to sell perfume what she's doing now anyway, you know, bitching about saying that, like the industry makes.

You do things you don't want to have to do.

I actually have wondered as being like b B B people are extras and syops actually part of their job as well sometimes, which is kind of what you're saying now.

These people are showing.

Up being actual price paying gig.

Yeah.

Yeah, and you know you're being a scumbag doing that ship.

Yeah, it's a paying gig.

Right, Yeah, it's just part of the contract. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm.

Not saying it. I'm not saying it's sag session. I'm what I'm saying is it's yeah.

Well maybe like James, Let's that's exactly.

What when I say, these folks look like from Central Casting. Right there you go, sir, that's a great example. He could have saved us all, Phil if it wasn't for James. You know, James Woods tried, he could have saved us all and that and that what he kind of claims, right yeah, Mark Wahlberg too, Right, He's like, if I was there, I would have fought all those guys.

Mark Wahlberg, Seth MacFarlane who managed to miss his flight. You know, maybe he could have told him jokes. Who knows, you know, you think of all those guys who just managed just to miss that flight, get it. That is Peter gripping a personation a little.

So what so what you're what we're saying that that? I mean, this sells the concepts of the whole narrative, right, these guys are these stars and whatnot. They're like you know, obviously you know there's stories or preposteros, but it helps sell the general narrative, right, Like I feel like it's part of the show.

Want to see Zelensky?

Yeah right, Like what's that about?

Well, just like, well, you're the one we got for.

This, Sean Sean Penn.

Available. And then later like now Josh Brolin's down in Mexico filming in the whatever movie, you know whatever. He's into these you know what I mean, they probably have a whole list, Like now he's on the assignment over here, he's on set here. We can squeeze in Matthew McConaughey, but just for the weekend.

Yeah, we can get him into this shooter, this shooter that we got going.

Yeah, you know, Charrels Harrelson, the assassin's son. Matthew McConaughey can get him into. But he's got he's only got forty hours available, so it's got to be.

Yeah. I couldn't believe that shit.

I'm like, Yo, this dude walks around with people have guns on them and he's like fucking talking about you know, guns and ship.

Right, shut up.

Clearly not a text and clearly not a text.

Kind of like you know, I hate to like like start like to be one of those people that's like, now I don't like some of this stuff because.

Us that move. But that really did ar. That was like, dude, just shut up, to sit the fuck down, don't so don't become one of these animals.

Well maybe that's like another Maybe that's like another way, you know, like they talk about the whole thing with certain actors, the whole the buck buck broken thing. Maybe that's another way of it. You know, like it's you like you think of someone like I mentioned in seth MacFarland supposedly being hungover and his agent told him the wrong time, so he misses the flight out of Boston

And uh, you know that's kind of a sat tire on Wahlberg's life, right Entourage, Right, yeah, yeah, those are real the people, the characters in there, they're all events and Chase his friends and whatnot. Those are all based on Wahlberg's crew.

Yep, because I think the guy, the real Turtle died years ago.

I know that.

I mean, I think I watched like one episode of the show, but he was still a slash.

Yeah.

The only thing, I mean, there's only so much Jeremy Piven, you know, scrimming like a jackass. I can listen to an.

Entire Yeah, go around, I don't I don't falt you there, Sir is trying to look up that pilot's name from the from Blow, the film Blow. So just before I forget that the film Blow, there's a pilot that comes in throughout the film, you know, when they're doing all the dealings. Him and Diego who's Carlos later the mediend guy. Right, So they bring in that white dude, that pilot from Florida that, in my opinion, is Larry Greenberger, the husband

He's the base for what was the guy named Jack Stevens? I think was the name of that I.

Always, sir, I swear, I swear, Phil, you were a man with many details. I could not I was googling it. I'm like, what's the pilot's name, George George Jones on the pilot?

What is?

Why is it? Why is giggle stupid? Yeah, Jack Stevens. There we go. So Jack Stevens, you know my opinion that is Larrnberger. Yes, sir, it's crazy.

I mean, uh yeah.

When when it comes to I mean when you think of the the interlocking connections with these with well with the drug world, but you know, you think of whenever they started really going in the importing into the country with the contras, I said, I you know, they had different, different you know operations. I mean, I think they had him going from you know, Mediyan through you know, Miami.

There was.

I don't know if you guys have ever heard of there's a guy named Bill Tyree, who I believe is still alive, is currently rotting in a prison in Massachusetts for the murder of his wife. And he was Special Forces out of Fort Devons And how do you spill it Devons or Tyree?

Is it t y r ee?

Yep? Yeah, his wife, his wife Elaine, and so Bill Tyree had allegedly taken part in some operations. Yeah, I was watched. How was the name of the covert op? And because a few of the people who were I think his superior officers who tried to blow the whistle on it died suspicious deaths. And yeah, Tyree I think has tried to appeal. I think he's yeah, nineteen sevent nine, We're talking like forty five years, almost forty six years.

I think, well, yeah, so is this relative to Iran Contra, the four Brag operations or the twenty Special Forces what we'll be talking here?

Well, this, this actually involves this was before I ran contract, but this involves uh noriega. I also believe in.

Uh yeahs elements and elements that we would later know to be Iran contrac if I may and also make correct my statement, yep.

And also an Israeli named Michael Harrari who would pop up.

The number elements of this case seem to be chilling at echoes of the Jeffrey McDonald case. Huh yep. I reviewed this Yeah, you also reviewed this book. Oh excellent. Okay, so you you know this book then? Okay? Nice?

Yeah, the goal because now I first come across Tyree's name, I believe in it was a book called Defrauding America, which is about this guy who was he was I think he was an FAA safety inspector who saw corruption in the airline industry and then eventually the government went after him. And then later on he got introduced to a lot of other people and you know, covert ops, guys who kind of got you know, were the victims

Yeah, listening, how on the nose? Is that phil.

Listening devices being planted in prosecutor.

Did they call it Project Big Brother? Also? Was that like a sub project?

Yeah?

Yeah, I mean let's say, said what we're doing, then they could they could be on the nose, you know, but they supposedly I think bug ted Kennedy's office. I think they said, even religious officials, like whatever it was to keep this operation secret. And I actually so years ago, it's like two thousand and three. I could pretty much pinpoint the year they used to have the A and E show Investigative Reports. It was what's the name Bill Curtis? Bill Curtis.

That great, That was a good show. Man. I enjoyed some of that ad program back then. Criminal Confidential that was a good one.

That and American Justice. American Justice is one.

Of my other friends that he did. Maybe the City Confidential. They did weird City Confidential.

City Confidential that was where I saw. They did Biloxi with the murder of Vince Sherry and his wife Margaret, and it was a judge and his wife and uh that wound up connecting to the Dixie mafia and got the mayor of the mayor of Biloxi indicted. But with with the Tyree case, they had an episode called Murder at Fort Devons. It aired. In terms of me seeing it once, never saw it, and because at one point of.

This bill, this is the first I'm hearing of these things. So I'm glad, I'm glad you're airing it.

Well, it's interesting enough, so when they referenced some of the stuff that Tyree was talking about, you know, in terms of why his wife was murdered to you know, keep watchtower shut up. They show like a document and I see two names, Edwin Wilson and Frank Turple, and I'm like, oh shit, because I you know, already come across those names. Ed Wilson was like they called him the death Merchant. He was the guy who was set, you know, convicted of selling arms to Libya with Kadafi.

And uh, I think he ran a foul of man. May Put might have put a pause there for a Task Force four five seven out of the Navy.

Yeah, and I think I mentioned where Wilson was from, Idaho.

Oh that's how this is the dude I was going to ask you about, Thank you, sir, Yes, yes, yes, okay. So that's what I was saying. This is the pro that's what I was getting out with the proto machinations of Iran Contran. This is the guy that the connects it right, yep.

Yeah, so Wilson he was a guy. So he winds up getting sentenced to I think it was life because between the selling weapons, and they said at one point he put a hit out on the prosecutor and also his own wife.

It's never a good idea. I don't care how bad.

And well hit the prosecutor who'd be involved in his case?

What was it?

Lawrence Barcela was wound up being involved, I think involved in the October Surprise investigation. So that guy's kind of suspect as hell.

And you mean to tell me this guy was both CI. It's people like this guy that I find very fascinating because he's both CIA, but he's an O and I guy assigned to CIA. And I don't think those two organizations like you very much, Phil, yep.

And I think sacrifice. He was sacrificed because he'd be involved in that company was called EATS COO, which is like Egypt Arms Transportation, with the guy named Richard Secord who would pop up in Iran contra because he was Air Force general, and a guy named Albert Hakeem, a guy named Thomas Kleins who was CIA Cleins would would wind up being sentenced in Iran contray. I think for I've been perjury and Shackley Ted Shackley.

Old Ted, that's a dark character right there. Yeah.

Ed Wilson was connecting with a lot of guys, a guy named Rafael Chichi Quintero, who I believe might have been Operation for Uh. You know, I like that quhen Tero came up in the book I finished, uh TJ. English's last book. I believe it was the corporation about uh, these guys who were cocaine cowboys out of out of Miami, but they were former Cube you know, Cuban exiles.

But before I go back here, so this was the for Divers case there, I'm sorry for Devon's case there. So it says this case provoked suspicions of judicial misconduct, government cover up, clandestine black ops by the military, and various conspiracy theories, ultimately implicating deep state involvement. I mean,

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to connected. I mean, especially when you have Noriega's in there and Michael Horrari who as an israel The intelligence asset pops up in a lot of things kind of like uh, this one who was a Raphael Rafi e Tom. You know, you start seeing these guys pop up over and over and over and over again, and right right, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they're connected or if like as one kind of like when we talk about I mentioned, uh, newgan Hand.

It's always the CIA at the top of these boards. And typically seems like at least with b CCI, the Vatican Bank involved as well.

Yeah, I mean, uh, you know they said, what was it? I think that was just coming across. I got Posner's book, which I started reading. I said, which I don't know considering the fact that it's Posner and he's another one of those mainstream, you know, narrative guys from JFK to Martin Luther King. I mean, the Vatican Bank is like, I don't give into conspiracies, is.

Like, all right, right, very convenient. They're posing are very convenient. So when it comes to all these characters, Phil, why is it always coming back to the whole as Tricky Dick put it in the Watergate tapes, that whole bay of pigs thing. I think, I mean, they look right here with add Wilson, right, he's even colluding with Cuban exiles part of that same as you were in describing

I think it's an offshoot at like what you'd call like the old Boys Network. Now, when Danny Cassilara was trying to was trying to trace the origins of the octopus, he puts it all the way back to a failed CIA operation and I think it was, I want to say Albania. It had something to do with one that Kim Philby gave up the infamous six meter spy for the Russians, and that out of that came what would be the octopus, and that you know in his book he names them. And I know ed Wilson is someone

Kind of.

Yeah, they proved the fact that the c I a lie that Wilson was working for them when he was selling arms to Kadafi. You know, I think, like I said, I think he was just sacrificed because he was too high profile. He was he was spending you know, I think he had like multiple houses. He was just living too high on the on the hog for people like you know, will uh Ce, Cord and Shackley, who would have preferred he kept a low profile.

You know what I mean, You're you make some reasonable points there, like where your head's up for sure? What are your thoughts on, speaking of these matters with Castile and gag, what are your thoughts on why is Michael riccona Shoodo still alive today? Or easy?

I think, I mean he's still alive because so Actually I was just reading today and I was it was on Facebook originally that Netflix.

Michael Riconas on Facebook. That'd be to do.

Now, someone someone who knows certain elements of the story who looked into it. This whose father was actually killed in the Indio case, the Cavson, the Cabson Indians that the murders.

Old girl whose dad was murdered by by uh Was it one of the Nichols fellas I always get the Nichols was mixed.

Up there, possibly on the orders of John Nichols and by a guy named Jimmy Hughes. Jimmy Hughes is the guy who was indicted for it and then was supposedly converted became like a minister like in.

Uh contracts hitman for the CIA though correct.

Yeah, I believe so. I think even self admitted said that he was an assassin, and I think might have been connected with the Gambinos, possibly like Robert Booth.

Nichols was uh what I was gonna say. These Nickel boys seem to be connected to the Mouth families, right.

Yeah, and well Nicholas was also uh to the Yakuza. But with with this Facebook post Rachel Begley, whose father was I think alth Boger was the guy's name. She was responding to allegations Racanda Shooto made to Covert Action magazine, which had published like a further takedown of the American conspiracy the Octopus Murders documentary, which got nomination. Yeah it was, it was good, but they what she was counteracting was attacks on Sherry Seymour, who wrote the Last Circle about

And is this the guy that got arrested for murder or convicted of murder? The uh who?

Going on Twitter?

Yeah, his name was Joy and Cleebold.

No, no, no, no, this is another Booth. He goes like, okay, see okay, see facts, and I guess Wendy Painting might have something.

And now you know there was some guys seen that other guy. Yeah, okay, I've seen you. I want to make sure I wasn't thinking of the same guy. Okay, thank you.

Yeah, Booth has been going like off on a tear and apparently what's there?

What's their beef? Now? What's it? Ever?

I think him and Wendy Painting used to be like close, like they used to kind of bounce ideas off each other, give each other research, and then I guess something happened where she said he was like, I guess being overly friendly. And then then it felt like after a while, I kind of like got quashed. And then recently it started up again. They got Terry Yeekey's widow involved and like

Thirty years.

Yeah, so I guess trying to do And another guy, Ken Silva, who does great research, told Boot to tone it down and he basically said, fuck these guys, done with them, And yeah, he's like, I am the King, I'm this. I'm like, is this guy like fucking drugs or something like? I mean he went scorts with because even even Dana said Dana had tweeted said, what do you you know, what do you hope to get out of this? Like what's your what's your buddy? But yeah,

I like your style, sir. It's best not to get involved in these right. Yeah. It's uh, those of these matters though that seem to get pretty contentious. These folks get a real butter.

Yeah. The only one I like watching is when Dana goes after Manny Manny Grossman, because Manny Grossman just seems like a guy who loves alienating everybody in his research.

I not only love that statement. But I also have no idea what you're talking about, sir. But you were mentioning that that Clinton book earlier, So what was the theory there on the Oklahoma City stuff.

It was one of the first time I ever saw the name Andrea Strasmeir and Lhem City and what was it, Bob Malar and Carol Howe and it kind of talks about that whole thing I never knew. I mean, that was like the first for me because I had, you know, questions. I was only you know, fourteen when Oklahoma City happened, but certain things didn't seem right. We went from the news that first day saying they thought it was like

Loves almost beat you to it, sir, almost got you. You've barely gotten me, Phil I got. I thought I had a book title before you. For a second, Dewey decimal system wins again, sir, I think I have to check out that book. That sounds very fascinating. If I may circle this back to Jay Simpson and uh Cocaine, Bob Evanson gang right, So yes, what was sir? What was the name of that book? Again? Your Secret Life? I forgot a book market The Secret Life of Dell Clinton.

Shit.

He would later claim that he would later claim, well, me and Roman are friends now so he can go f I mean, in death, he can go fuck himself. The uh, it's strange. I went deep on van Attur recently. I didn't realize he was one of those van Atters.

For Full House, Jeff Franklin.

Jeff Franklin, Yes, sir, he would then purchase or he would build a monstrous home in the property, after destroying the original home where the murders occurred, and after kicking Trent residor Marilyn Manson out of the property, because that's he was residing there at the time they were renting. And you know, Marilyn Manson lives there today again, strangely enough, and in the basement of that property owned by the executive producer of Full House Land Manson lives again, is

In nineteen sixty nine, when Charles Manson kills Sharon Tate and all those people have said and remember, scared him to dead.

He armed every one of us. That's when it became very paranoid.

And then we get the death threat in Las Vegas and he has this picture of Manson in that courtroom, and he's picturing someone like that sitting in a courtroom that their claim to fame was they had shot and killed Elvis Presley, and he took Jerry and Red and myself who were doing the security mainly at that time, and said tearfully, if it happens, I want you to get to him first.

I don't deserve to be cut shot killed by anybody. And then he told him told.

Us what he wanted us to do to him. You know, kind of weird, kind of weird, right for these works. If they didn't know each other, why is he gearing up so much? He was about something, right.

Yeah, Well they were talking about again in that relationship with his ahead, and I would.

Say, like, in the wake of the tape murders just had like you know, Hollywood, all of a sudden, they were like, yep, we gotta start arming, we gotta start getting guard dogs, you know, this and that, and you know it's like, well.

It wasn't but the forefront of that, right, I'm cind now, go ahead. I was just saying, look, I'm making those statements, right, steph McQueen Peter yep, yep. Yeah, you mean the guy that was clearly in some weird sexual relations with cocaine Bob and his wife Ally mcgrall. That's Stephen queen, yep.

And that at one point there was consideration of having McQueen killed.

I have no doubt. You know what's funny he also hails from the same region in West Virginia as Philip van Atter and right across the river from Charles Manson. Strangely enough, that's for those I know that because I also got McQueen's of my family. In fact, i'm i'm we call herself my second grid grandmother dropped the mic and just went with Queen. But it's the same family there, and they all held from that region of Appalachia. That's

Yeah, Stamos drum for them too, Like he was in there.

You mean the one you mean the video of the song written by Terry Melcher friend, he was co writer of co Coming along with the Wilson Boys. You know, Charles Manson's friends. You know that's crazy. You know the guy that lived at the Yellow Drive, right, you know? And then and then I see all these fellows with Cocaine Bob over the years. He's really chumming, like hugging around that Full House cast a lot. I'll tell you this much that's crazy. There he is with these Here

Jody Sweeten used to have a hell of a drug habit too. I think she was like youth, Yeah, big meth addict.

I think something like that. Yeah, don't you get a whole new teeth and stuff and everything? Right, she got a whole new grill. Right, that's how bad it got. Right.

And two of the things, I still think saget step is very very weird.

And uh, I think Saget's life is very weird.

Sir well, yeah, and then what was it Franklin? Franklin got me tooed off? The Fuller House off? The spinoff?

Is that?

Is that a power move within the cult system? Possibly?

I mean they said inappropriate behavior, which is a very wide spectrum. Are we talking Harvey Weinstein inappropriate? We're talking Joss Whedon or are we talking like Jeffrey tamboor what like what exactly the special about Are you just an asshole or are you just someone who like has inappropriate contact?

I said, that's, you know, whatever, whatever happened to Dave Coolier.

Cancer cancer. I know that he knows he's alive, but if we're talking inappropriate type about when did he start seeing alanas more many?

He's Canadian? Has too many baron calls, lodges right here, you know, like Chris Farley, didn't.

She she wrote, she wrote the the song you ought to Know that's about Dave Coolier no ship because he he was so a wealth of KnowledgeR. I had no idea that Nickelodeon. So Nickelodeon Dave Coolier had a show. Alanis Morrissett was on you can't do that on television for like about a year.

Well yeah, she's like, how disgusting is that show? In hindsight of I may uh.

The Nickelodeon legacy. I mean people think it started their dan.

They're dropping, they're dropping you over all these kids town. Dude, it's like bou cocky festive sorts.

See if you go back and look at some of that ship and you're like, yo, yeah, yep, it's uh.

I'm creeping out, thin crypt out thinking about it, you know, I mean.

Well, and that's what like I just watched what was it? It was only through another podcast, uh like video the quiet on the set when they were talking about Dan Schneider, and it was like, yeah, no, I guarantee he wasn't the only one. But I said, yeah, it don't look good. I mean, you see the areonic grande stop.

I had already read all them kids are a mess. Right, here's my problem with the Dan Schneider tale. I meant, he's obviously a full blown creepster. But that whole narrative relative to Amanda Mindes deters everybody from a very very important factor than the downturn and disaster that became Amanda Binds life. And that is for many years she was very close friends, many photographs, tabloids, et cetera, with a fellow by the name of J. J. Bryan. They were

Right, Well, you know what there was just to at a point there there's something with certain these kid kid actors. And then there was one, uh, there was an actor Andrew Keegan, who was in Ten Things I Hate About You.

He was in I think talking about that weird cold he made out there for Santa Monica. Yep, oh shit, please do I love this story.

I mean, I forget what the cult's name was, but I just remember seeing him. I'm like, yeah, that's right, but that's a great example.

He was like like an A lister, but he was his main like kind of heart prob character of Ten Things I Hate About You. He did some other stuff, right, He was in a.

Like a modern art He was in another movie with Julia Stiles and was called oh and it was like a fellow modern day a fellow and what's the name Makai Piffer Josh.

I totally forgot about this, dude. I'm glad you brought this up. I like this story. Andrew Keagan, right, yep, yeah, you'll recognize his face. Nick you may you mean, like his name is not notable, but he was in enough ship. You're like, oh that dude.

Yep.

I was about to say, he's got to have a Wikipedia, the source of all information on the interwece.

He does sounds familiar thing.

Yeah, I can't think of the other movies he was. He definitely did some of those nineties teen films, right, he was a nineties teen guy. This guy, I mean, now it looks like shit, but yeah, I mean you see, cocane's a hell of a drug. Films a drug. So is Jesus. Apparently this guy's got his own Like again, when I say Jesus, I mean he's got his own version of I think he's Jesus, kind of like Jared Leto's Jesus, you know what I mean, that kind of

Yeah.

I see Seventh Heaven on there, and that had a camp nowhere. That's what I was thinking of Camp nowhere. Christopher Lloyd, Yeah, John Jonathan Jackson, Jessica Alba. Right, we got a lot of stars in this one. They were early stars, right, anyway, So he's cult. That was very interesting. So after Hollywood right, which was early two thousands, I think he leaves right. Oh ship he was a Sabrina the Teenage Witch Show. Dude, Get out of Time, Joan Hart. Dude, he did a full House episode Holy Smokes.

Love Love in Christopher Jodie Sweeten's character.

Dude, he was an Independence Day dude. I don't know which one that was, Bill Paxton or Bill Pullman, whichever one was. They did a great job.

Hey, Spaceballs Too is coming out. That's all I gotta say.

Dude, moranaz is coming out of retirement.

Yep, Rick Moranis is coming out of retirement.

Yeah, who's making the movie?

Yeah? John Candy is surprising as role as Bar. I am making that up. B it's like that to three D hologram. No, I mean, I mean it's gonna not gonna be quite the same without Bar. But I mean, you know, don't be surprised they want to put Mike. I mean I just saw I think what's his name is involved. I think Josh gadd is involved with that. Well, I just I just got a little I got a

Because he's not gonna act, I wouldn't be surprised if he wants a bad in.

That's what I'm pretty surprised. That's what I'm afraid of. The I you know, strangely enough, here, Wikipedia, the source of all information on the interwebs, does not list Andrew Keegan's cult. So let me look that up from us here. Oh well, that's why because it's not a cult, it says right here, Phil, it's not a cult. It says it's community center. So that's when my that's where I aired, right,

Starring Roll, you don't have to worry about being titlecast anymore.

Yeah, look, dude, royalties of this it's gonna be endless for you. But we're just gonna keep cutting your check.

I mean, you got to check for five dollars every week for ten things I had about you. Eventually it's gonna dry up.

Yeah, yeah, no one, No one likes that ship anymore. Heath Ledgerd don't even wantch it. None even knows the name of Heath Ledgerd anymore. Sadly, But see what, I didn't like him. He's a good actor, but you know what I mean. But like, there's no way they're they're really playing that ship. There's so much there's not much

Some some or that it was working at the supermarket.

There you go, he started working at Trader Joe's. But so you know, these things happen. I don't disrespect him man for him to do that. What I'm saying is, you know, the royalties right up, because suddenly everyone's like, well we can't do Aaron Nobil raper shows, so we you know, we got to get fund a job. But so there is an element to these these actors and lack of royalties. They may they may find that they're

Almost have to be like a united front on certain of these things, like what was it friends used to negotiate together for everything? And then Seinfeld when when the when Julia, Louis Dreyfus, Jason Alexander, Michael Richards heard about the deal that Larry David and Seinfeld cut for residuals and also DVD sales, They're like, we're getting a cut or we're never doing anything further for the show right now.

It's a strong move. It's a power move. I like it. I respect that. Do you remember this film? I love the film. When I was a teenager, heard of it, never seen it. Oh man, it's a mind it's a mind fuck. Well and it may have been as a result of this fucking movie. Dude. I'm not making that up. Dude, this is a mind fuck. I mean, what's for you? Do you remember this? Oh man? I don't want I don't want to ruin your l's evening or cause any

Man.

Let me just read a synopsis for you, because I'm obviously not doing it any justice. But what what what? What caused this coming? I like the comment, I'm just curious what caused this.

It was?

I don't know. Let me let me read this for you. After a car accident killed his mother and permanently his leg, teenager Michael Brower Edward prolong lives an isolated existence in his absent father's house. He spends his spare time watching his neighbor and crush Kimberly so that you know the kind of that, you know, the rear window situation, almost like a Hitchcock wave situation, right, so you know, not directly, but it's you know, they're paying homage to that aspect.

Well yeah, he kind of like Axl Rose to a Yeah.

Yeah, are they twins because cocaine's a hell of a drug apparently.

Well have you seen the picture of like someone was like when did Axl Rose turn into Mama for Telly from the Goonies?

Yeah, Mickey Rourke and Axle Rose.

Yeah, they're rough Man Mickey Rourck holy Ship.

Yeah. Have you seen that photo with those two together. They look like an old lesbian couple.

Yeah, they definitely do. You know.

They have a couple of cats. They knit and they knit some spiders together on the porch, you know, you know that's what they look like, you know what I mean.

Yeah, they showed a picture. I think it was like a horror convention and it was like, uh, people from Terminators like Robert Patrick, you know T two from the second the T one thousand from T.

Two kind of the height of his career, right, Yeah, I don't know, he's he's he's.

Been in a lot of I mean, he was in Sons of Anarchy and like he's been, he's been around.

That was my nice way I'm saying he's a terrible I've seen around.

Yes, Uh.

And his brother was in the group Filter that he was the lead singer Filter.

That's right, and but right who was it wasn't that their their single filter? Hey Man Knight shot.

Shot Yep, yep, that was that? Because Richard Patrick, the brother was also I think in nine inch Nails. I think at one point or at least I know he was connected with Trent Reznor.

But yeah, we did not know that. I did not know that. That's interesting.

There's a picture he was Edward for a long. Lance Hendrickson, who was in the First Terminator. It was also when Aliens and tons of other ship, who's like eighty something years old now, Michael bim who was uh Kyle Reese from.

Dude, he was a big star like that. He had a lot of hopes for him. He was an alien too, right, Yep, he.

Was an alien. He was an Aliens with Lance Henderson and uh.

He was in uh Tombstone, you know he was. He was like, I'm not gonna be your huckleberry.

Yeah. And uh he's the one who said later on about Valcolmer is like, like I wish I'd worked with him. I knew Doc Holliday, you know, like I guess Valcolmer was in totally Ship. Oh yeah, holy shit.

I mean they look so they're just a couple. They're just an old age and lesbian couples. Big well, look how look at the cocaine does to these fellows. I mean that's a fucking hell of a drug.

Oh gosh, yeah, rough, Well, another Cocaine Bob connection, who was one of the good buddies.

Slash, you ain't kidding the next door neighbors. You ain't kidding, sider. They were real tight.

And he put in Kid Notorious, the Comedy Central show that got bounced after a season.

Now, there's lots of photos with him. Like if I was to give you an analysis of all the photographs I've looked at, and I looked at a lot of Cocaine Bob, you know, from various events and whatnot. I'll tell you two things. Him and Slash are real tight. And he liked to kiss Brett Rattner. Him and Brett Ratner liked to smooch. They smooched a lot, and boys were smooching everywhere another another me too, guy, Brett Ratner. Well, he's also the partner long term business partner in production.

Said, even dead, he's still at it.

Even in death. He's still even in death. He's got his minions, Graydon Carter or Barry Diller. You know these these characters, they're out there doing the building. And I would argue of old Cocaine Bob. Yeah, great partner. Is that Vanity Fair? Uh he came from Vanity Fair. Yes, sir, he's the one who's founded airmail and and and uh employees. Howard bloom In regards to the Outaho for business.

Well, Vanity Fair had a guy I think it was Ron Rosenbaum who wound up writing a book, a book wrote an article about Danny Castelaro, trying to say that, you know, he got obsessed with the case and then killed himself. No shoot, yeah, he went back and then said that he did the slashes on the wrist to represent the octopus. It was a real reach, but not a.

Surprise real reach. It was a real reach. Yeah you're back, Oh my back, my back back again.

Well that's may be a good time to call it in your folks, bring us in for lane and focus on your webs and gents. I appreciate your time. Phil I'm obviously gonna tell you I'm gonna need to go ahead and get a you know, after the show, you know, in the near future. Get get get our calendars together for a future appearance back here on Fridays, because I'm not gonna lie you here again. I got nothing but notes and details, and I enjoy every minute of these conversations.

I appreciate it.

Did you freeze again? It's definitely, It's definitely time the rabbit.

Oh boy, gna hold silly old silly, my back, my back, all right, get back, get back. If I if i'm if, I may offer you some closing statements sacred you know, by all means as many statements as you need to anything you want to wrap up tonight, or any statements you like to make their Philkas a hell of the drug.

I'm always I'm always reading something. But you know, right now I think my next conspiracy anything book that I'm doing, I was reading the book about Howard Hughes and I know that's a big topic.

I know, Heidi, I know, I love it.

Yeah, And actually it just told her about a book I was doing for a review. It's called The Mormon the Mormon Mafia in Me about a guy who's suing uh the LDS Church in regards to stealing his family's fortune and disinheriting him out of two hundred and fifty million dollars. What.

Well, what I'm hearing you say, sir, is the next time you're here, HEDI will be here, will be discussing some Mormon business as well.

Sounds good to me.

I'm excited. You're welcome to the time. But I don't know that story. And I'm a form former. I'm an x me myself, so this all sounds very intriguing to me. And so are you doing a review on this on your blog?

And is that is that the I actually reviewed it for one of the review companies, and it's it's an interesting case. Uh. Eliason is the guy's last name. His name is Brett Brett Eliason E L I A s O N. I did. I did reach out to Heidi and let her now. She wasn't familiar with it either. But the guy's not only suing the ld S church and the law firm that represented his family. Uh, he also is brought in. I think he's sued the Justice Department too, Like he's I mean, the accusations.

And everybody, everybody. Can you spell this name for me?

Is it?

H L I A S O N.

Yep, you got it.

He's not a former member of Pearl Jam, is he? No, there's a former member Parl Jam by that precise same name spelling, which.

Would be news to me because I know, I know all the guys, the only only members of Pearl Jam that's ever changed with the drummer.

The studio guy. Maybe that'd probably look yeah, well I'll look in to see what the same It might be weird of the same guy, right, that'd be really weird. Right he was, Uh, I don't know. He he he had some some maybe it was a studio, maybe it was a you know, he had he had some product, maybe a production aspect to it. He was connected a long time, you know, associated Pearl Jam with a guy by that name. So okay, yeah, he was in the

No. And I don't know if they published it yet, you know, but one of the yeah, one of the review companies because a lot of times like I'll have to go look it up and see if they've done it yet or whatnot, and what they've edited or whatnot. But it's what it's us book review. It's they're one that kind of they're good. I've been with them for like three years and uh, yep, that's it. And yeah, the book is basically presents like it's a legal case and you know, it kind of just he's like the

Well, I don't know much about the curtain McConkie law from. Rather than McConkie's are a former you know, that's the hierarchy of the Upper echeland, the Mormon Church right there. So I'm not sure sure they're the wisest people to take a battle against too. So this is an interesting tale, it sounds like, and it sounds like one with a lot of Mormon power behind it.

Yeah, I mean it's uh, it's it's one of those I mean definitely like the David and Goliath.

Sort of thing, like were ship right right.

I don't know if he's going to get anything out of it, but yeah, I mean it's broken him from the rest of his family, and you know, I mean he levy some you know, some very serious charges against his own sister.

You know, does this have anything to do with the who were the fellows there we were talking about before Nick the leave its.

I've heard of those guys. I think those are the guys that uh.

Yeah, well one of them was the governor. The one the one that was not the governor was the brother that was the Utah County prosecutor that was had the had the press conference like, Hey, my wife and I don't eat kids. We're like, no one asks you you get kids, buddy? Why you hold a conference?

Yeah, he told himself. And then they looked into him like, Yo, why are you even saying that.

What a weird thing to say, sir, Why are you telling you this.

It's just such weird things inside that I mean in that church, I mean just in terms of the scandals are always insane. I still got to watch the was It under the Banner of Heaven?

And one that they see in the one on Mark Hoffmann.

I saw the Netflix on I think on Hoffman, Yeah, there's a lot of that. I remember hearing about what was it with the hand with breaking his hand or whatever it was that he couldn't write anymore, couldn't do forgeries or whatnot. But I was watching that FX mini series Under the Banner of Heaven about the what was it? The the wife and child that were killed and it was like they think it was like the brothers in law I think wound up being involved or something like that.

I think it was in the eightiesventies, you know, folks, A lot of I like to point figures of the Catholics in the Vatican with they're you know, the mothership as I call them. In Salt Lake. They got a lot of scandals themselves, right, Yeah, definitely interesting. We can talk about some Mormon stuff in the future. I'm always

No, you're not gonna want that especially, Uh no, no, nothing really.

Uh.

A lot of stuff again, Phil, whenever you come on, it's just tons and tons of shit.

I always appreciate it. A good time, the chat, that's what's up. Oh yeah, I just pluged the ocult rejects. Uh, you know all major podcasts, bit you rumble all that stuff.

Yeah, there you go. Yes, well, I appreciate your gents time and discourse conversation here from other outstanding Fridays and folks of the interwebs. Same to you, appreciate the chat and the UH folks here. UH hopefully we found this as entertaining as I did, because I definitely enjoyed the conversation and had a great time there were both To the gents and UH Operation GCD Sundays may or may not have eaten human beatburgers come find out Eastern Times.