Decoding Hidden Meanings in Cemeteries with Gina Black

You see, something's going to happen. What what's going to happen?

I think.

What I going up to help Welcome to the Occult Rejects this episode. I got a few of us with us tonight, and I was looking forward to this. And I know last time when she was on, she had mentioned that she had a book coming, so I was very very much looking forward to getting her back on to talk about that. You know, it was left having people on with books. And I will say this one

But before we get to her, we will.

Let everybody else plug their shows first, Ethan Indigo, let everybody know what is going on where they can find all the amazing stuff.

Please, well, thank you so much Snick for involvement, and thanks to everyone for being here, always stoke to communicate with everyone. Gina, I know this is gonna be awesome exploration of symbolism. I am a writer, author, and the usual suspects trying to promote stuff and share interesting things Ethan Indigo Smith exoteric and esoteric writing, so I always appreciate communication.

Yeah, thank you very much, sir. And Lisa the occult rejectmated scientist. What is going on?

How's it going? I'm very excited to be here. I finally get to be on the same screen as Broke and Gina. Because I heard the last one and it was a lot of fun. I kind of felt a little jelly because I was But anyway, I am excited to hear about this topic. And the only thing I want to plug is a cult research Institute dot org.

Yes, thank you very much. And Brooke, please let everybody know what your deal is and where they can find all your amazing work as well.

Well.

I'm also very excited to be here and share the stage with you guys tonight and hear more about your experiences. Gina, I'm really excited to dive into that. You can find me on Instagram at Dark Florida Podcast, I have a show we talk about all things crazy from Florida and beyond. So this is right up my alley.

Thank you very much for joining us, Brooke, and last but not least, Jjvance, not the Vice President.

Good evening, sir, Nick Greedy, Sir, appreciate the invite as always fellow fellow rejects. Always enjoy conversation with you all. So looking forward to it. And Gina, nice to meet you, ma'am. JJ Vance, host of Operation GCD and more notably not

Oh yeah, thank you very much, sir. And finally we got Gina Black the book that she has. I didn't plug the name of that yet. It is etched in Stone and in his decoding Hidden Meetings and Cemeteries, which now people may understand why I liked it so much. I'm really huge into architecture, and who doesn't like graveyards and senies. So I mean, for me as an occultist, how I look at a lot of art and architecture

Gina, thank you so much for coming on. That is what's up?

Can you please let everybody know what your deal is and where they can find all your amazing stuff.

Yes, Hi, my name is Gina, and I recently wrote the book that we're talking about tonight.

Thank you so much for having me, and I'm so happy to be here with all of you guys.

And so I am a paranormal investigator, photographer, and author living in South Florida. I am close to Fort Lauderdale, Miami area, and in addition to the book about cemeteries, I'm also an investigator. I co founded a Paranormal team, and I enjoy experimenting and also helping some local locations close to where I live, as far as fundraising and getting people in to learn about the paranormal by investigating through fundraisers.

So I love all things spooky.

I love a good mystery, which is why I got into this, the whole topic of writing this book, and I'm just really excited to talk about it with you guys.

Thank you having me no, thank you very much. I know you probably got into this in the first episode, but unfortunately we're going to go back to it again. I guess what was it that made you write this book, besides the fact that you love, you know, graveyards of semitories.

Well, you know, it started around the pandemic when I was kind of, you know, along with everybody else, you know, going through the isolation of all of that, and feeling a little cooped up and a little in need of

A lot of repetitive art.

And as somebody who I have an art background and photography is just one of the things I do in the art field, I really started looking into it more and more, and hence that's how I kind of found myself down the rabbit hole with cemeteries and the beautiful artwork that is inside of them.

And I know I.

Would I travel a lot, so I started to go on tours, historical tours. I started talking to people, and it's one of those topics that if you find yourself in a cemetery and you happen to come across somebody who's a volunteer there or someone who's a docent, or someone who whatever the story is, why they're there, a lot of times people are very passionate about sharing the

But lo and behold, it kind of launched my page.

I really started getting a lot of followers after I started talking about this, So it was a pretty neat experience to kind of make that connection with a lot of people.

That is great. Uh, you know, it was interesting around the time I think I had, you know, came across your work. I you know, I had been filming it. I had went to Yale a few times and filmed, and I did the cemetery over there. I can't remember the name of the cemetery, New Haven, I think it is or whatever.

And then like I had, uh, for.

Some reason, just thought about going to like the cemetery at Huntington, Oh Bay where I was. I knew there was some like old old people there, and that's when I had started noticing, I'm like, wait, I still like that same artwork and design on a different tombstone over and yell. And then I sort of realizing, I'm like, oh,

You know, it's just it's very elaborate.

But uh, I guess is there if somebody did ask in the chat, and I'm pretty sure that, I mean, it's probably multiple places. I don't think I just went to one place. Somebody's asking which city is represented in the book. I'm assuming you went to a bunch of different places. I don't know, if you want to get into that, places that you've been to, maybe where you started to notice that type.

Of Absolutely, you know, just a couple of notable locations that you'll see photography my photography in the book. One of my favorites in Paris is Pierre la Chase, and that is one of the largest cemeteries and one of the most visited cemeteries in the world, and most notably a lot of people know it because it is the home of Jim Morrison's grave, and.

That was one of my favorites.

That's actually the cover of the book is one of the mausoleums from that from that cemetery.

I also have been to most of the cemeteries in.

Orleans, but the one that inspired me as far as the photography and kind of getting me into it, it was actually in Fort Lauderdale, and so that that would be the Greenwood Cemetery in Fort Lauderdale, and that one is home to Leslie Nielsen, which is a kind of I was looking up celebrities in my area and I found out he was there along with a couple of other local pioneer families. So that's the cemetery that really kind of got me into the photography end of it.

And another one that I talk a lot about is a few of the.

London cemeteries, most notably the Highgate Cemetery and Brompton, So there's a bunch of different cemeteries from all over the world in the in the book.

Now, did you notice, obviously, so you were one that you went out of the country, did you notice some things from there that you're like, oh, I noticed that same type of art from ones that you've seen here, or anything like that.

Yeah, you know, I.

Think in the UK we have a lot of parallels with our American cemeteries of the Victorian era, specifically from the UK to the US. But I think a lot of other countries will have their own flavor, if you will, And you know, I would say Greece when I was recently in Athens and the surrounds, there were some very notable, notable aspects to their cemeteries that we don't have here. And in Japan they look very different than what we have here. In Mexico, They're very different. So I think

Yeah, I had noticed there were certain like over in Yale, I noticed the same type of skull and design on the top of certain tombstones that are noticed in Huntington, and then when I sort of looking into it, I realized that that was kind of like specific to like German, So it was kind of like German.

That is, and a lot of German immigrants in the United States.

You'll see that in New England.

And there was a shift between the time of the Puritans coming in and everybody, you know, as time went on.

When they first arrived.

You see a lot of very dark, very grim artwork on tombstone.

You'll see the skull, You'll see the skull and crossbones.

You'll see skulls with bat wings, and eventually they become softened, and you'll see a transition that happens where these same motifs get softer and softer, and instead of skulls, they turn into cherubs, and they'll turn into angels, and they'll turn into ladies' faces. So, because over time, death became not so much something that should be feared, but something that people wanted to celebrate and kind of look more upon in a romanticized way. So this shift is pretty interesting.

Thank you.

Uh. One thing I wanted to get into like I know, uh, I really don't know.

Where to start. I mean it was like like maybe I shoul look at the questions I was Tony, I was going to ask you about one thing I thought was interesting was the whole thing with the gates. I never had realized, like you know, you had said, I think the whole cemetery gate thing kind of came from like a Turkish Turkey.

Yes, so I like to the way I sort of targeted the symbolism in the book is I wanted to find the origin, the beginning of the symbol. And if you look back through history, the first, the oldest sources of iron gates actually came from the area of Turkey, and it was the Hittites people and they built them around the perimeter of their of their kingdom, you know, their their villages, and eventually that design made its way around Europe and it became very popular during the Middle Ages.

So by putting.

Iron gates around the entire property, you were preventing spirits from following you home. If you go inside the cemetery and then you see a family plot that's also surrounded with iron and a little door that was something that you had to keep shut when you walked in and you visited your family members and you mourned when you left, you closed the gate, and it was considered bad luck for anybody to keep the gates open because they were concerned with these energies following them home.

So it was a superstitious factor as well.

Yeah, No, I thought that was really interesting, And how would you say the word was again too, it goes back like I think goes back to like the word I forgot how what word.

It was, like Biton.

Written, Yeah, it's it's that's the original word.

It's like mouldable.

It means like pliable something like that.

You said viable. Yeah, so you can bend it.

You bend it with fire and you can you can mold the design. So it was I think it was something that really was awe inspiring during that time because everybody was working with with stones and with you know, things along that, and that was something very different and had a really unique look to it, and it was something that could be artistically adjusted for each you know,

You probably want to ask anything before I keep going steel bead that I'm going to keep asking questions.

I was going to ask if, and maybe you're going to get into this later, if you saw like a progression from the years like centuries or whatever, like the eighteen hundreds, whatever, whatever, and then now the nineteen hundred, did you see a progression of symbolism or even material used as a headstone itself.

Yes, that's a really good question.

So I think that marble has always been something that has been used in the wealthy and the elite classes. That was something a little bit more expensive back then, and it's still something that's more expensive now. It is beautiful and it doesn't get as dirty looking, it doesn't need quite as much attention and maintenance. So that's that's a material that has kind of withstand, you know, the

We're seeing more of.

The flat style plaques and we're seeing very simple headstones. And I think a lot of that is because the death industry has gone so expensive that so many people, you know, I know, at least myself, having Facebook and other you know, social media apps. If somebody passes away suddenly, a lot of times you see GoFundMe because maybe a family cannot afford the cost of a funeral, or it was such a sudden thing that maybe didn't plan for it.

Say, not as unique.

So that's really the most the trends that I've seen, and that really is something that I think, as.

Far as time wise goes, maybe.

After the nineteen fifties the nineteen sixties, just from the cemeteries I've seen, there is a little bit of decline in the artistic designs of the headstones.

I think he nailed it with the industry that it seems like there's probably more emphasis or more money being spent on the casket and the service and then come the headstone. It's not really as much. But yeah, I would agree with that.

Brook you want it as something great.

I did. Do you go into the symbolism that you discussed in your book with the skull and the wings or do you have any section on symbolism in there?

Yes, I do talk about it.

Now as far as the sections of the book are

Just you know, you had to.

Live under God's roof, and you know, if you did not follow God's way, you were going to die. And this was the you know, the fear that was imposed on everyone. But slowly over time, and especially once you get into the eighteen hundreds, and I would say, in its peak the Victorian era, which is the mid eighteen hundreds to the early nineteen hundreds, there's much more of

The age of the person who was buried there.

You know, you will see lambs for babies, You'll see more flowers for the females, and I think that was a way for them to visit those sites and really feel good about connecting with their feelings and their their mourning. So it's an interesting shift in society. And also around the same time of the Victorians, we didn't really have in the United States, specifically, we didn't really have a public's parks program, so a lot of cemeteries were really

Well, and when you speak about the Victorian era, spiritualism really was on the rise during that time. A lot of seances and those cemeteries, like you're saying, did have those morning chairs for people to sit in, and you're right, they would have picnics and talk to their loved ones or friends who had passed on. You know, this is post Civil War era. And I'm sure have you investigated Cassadega, Yeah, I figured, okay, So for Nick and the rest of

You know. I visited there actually not long ago. I was there. I want to say it was June of twenty twenty four, and I.

Was on an investigation in town and my team and I, you know, kind of spent some time at the cemetery and I just I think it's a really fun local legend, but I don't think there's anything to it.

I think what it is is that we.

Have a very paranormal charged town, you know, Casadega, Like you said, it was a very much a center for people that were drawn to the paranormal, that were drawn to seances. And then you have this very ominous looking chair in a cemetery, and I think as time went on, and you know, time passed, and you have all these people that are probably coming into the town visiting because it essentially did become a little bit.

Of a tourist attraction for our state.

And nobody knows why the chair is there, and it looks very ominous, and if you get up close to the chair, and this is something that's very small, so I don't know if everybody's seen it as been, but if you look on the left side of the chair, there's a little tiny wooden cross that has kind of adhered to the chair. And I don't know if that was part of the original design or somebody added that, maybe because they thought that they were wording off any evil, but.

I think it was what it was.

It was a morning chair for the family at that particular plot, because it is a large family plot to sit and spend time and enjoy the space. And I think it just became the subject of spooky legends. You know.

Everybody has their local you know.

I know there's always going to be the story of a guy with a hook, or there's going to be the story of a girl that's hitch hiking on prom night that disappears in the car. Everybody has their little local ghost story.

And I think it's a fun one, but I don't.

I don't think there's any way that someone's going to disappear on a chair in the cemetery.

But it's maybe fun to try. You're brave.

I bet you Nick would sit right in it and do whatever happens.

You should, Nick. It's a cool area. You go to Disney, you know, and.

Then I want I want to really want to I really want to go over to Uhl Castle.

I really want to go there.

Yeah, that's that's by me. That's actually the furthest South, that's right.

Yeah, I know.

I looked at it like compared to other things.

I was like, oh, I could go to Florida for that, and I'm like, how close is it to Coral Castle? My god, it's another fucking four or five.

Well, if you really want to do that, I can give you some areas around there to make it worth it.

Yeah, area, there's not.

Really much going on there, and depending on your vibe of vacation, I know, for me, sometimes I want a vacation where I'm not around people, and then sometimes I put myself in the thick of it.

But that area is very cool.

There's a lot of spooky stuff around around Coral Castle.

I did want to show real quick.

This was even something Brooke reminded me of it when she asked about Sure, no, I guess skulls with wings. These aren't bat wings, but these were the things that I had noticed that were in the Huntington and Yale and there were both skulls that had just different variations

Interesting.

Yeah, Jini, you'd mentioned earlier something about the ancient Hitside folks inventing this iron gate situations? Is this the only trend that we adapted into you know, burial, you know ceremonies or rituals.

So if you will from the hitside folk.

That I'm not.

I didn't do a deep dive in deep dive into the hit type folks, But I just researched the origins of gates.

Where was the first he ever found?

And they were credited with creating the first you know what we would considered an iron gate, and they used it to keep people away from their you know, like their villages, their you know it.

It was meant to as a defense.

And as time went on and trading and you know everything kind of you know became what it became, more and more people started borrowing that idea and then it kind of morphed into what we have today.

But they were the first to create it.

So it's more of a cultural trend, not a burial trend then, right, right.

But when I when I in the book, when I talk about a symbol, I start at the beginning and I talk about the origins of that symbol, and then

So it's it's just.

An interesting thing to look into when you start going down the rabbit hole and you can see the progression.

It's just kind of an interesting path to take.

That's very interesting.

And when you said Hittite, I just I'm very familiar with those folks and relative to you know, cemeteries here in Ohio, there's been ancient Hittite tablets found inside of ancient you know, architecture, the ancient mounds of America that for whatever reason, folks like the International Word of Oddfellows and Freemason groups built cemeteries here in Ohio around these mounds, right, So they have iron gates around the cemetery and then inside that cemeteries focus on a mound and that mound

That's very interesting.

And the Freemasons have a lot of interesting secrets and symbolism.

So yeah, and I think you do actually get into a little bit of that right in the book.

I think I touch upon it because there are certain fraternal orders, especially in the United States. You know that there are so many commonalities across our country where you're going to see a headstone that has a Freemason symbol, or you're going to see the daughters of the American Revolution or the Women of the World. You're going to see these fraternal orders, the the the Praternal Order.

Of the Elks. There's there's so many of them.

And what was was kind of interesting is being a member of those fraternal orders was so important to that person that they chose to put that on their final resting place as a prominent symbol.

So it's important to note.

Because there are so many of them, and I actually have been asked a lot of what they mean. So I did a little research into just the basic you know, what what each logo means and why they use the symbols that they use. But I kind of left it for surface value on that because the book really wasn't about the fraternal orders. It was more about the symbols.

So yeah, that's uh that that's kind of a way. JJ's done it himself too. I've done it. Uh, when we've researched before. You can go and check someone's gravestone and sometimes you might find things out just from the stuff that's on there that you can't find anywhere else. And yeah, and all of a sudden like well, one point, I didn't know he's a freemasonbody has the fucking thing he graved on his tombstone, so obviously he was.

Now, you know, that's a great point.

That guy found that out just the other day when I was, uh, you know, recently when I was looking at uh, Robert the doll, the guy that the onset of that cursed damn doll there in Florida.

The guy who gave it to his grandson was doctor Joseph A.

Otto, who was a little prominent freemason and doctor there in Key West. And you know, real big on the top of his gravestone is the you know, the compass and squares so you can't miss it.

I investigated that doll, and it is. It's such an interesting thing in Florida to do. If you're ever in the keys it's it's very cool.

Beware, that's my only forewarning is don't go, oh it's go to Key West. You know what I'm saying, don't go take a picture of that damn doll because they don't.

Want they actually this is.

This is a hot topic, hot topic, and hot take on this, but it's true.

I was there in.

November of twenty twenty four and I did the night investigation where you know, you get to have the space the museum to you know, investigate, and they told us specifically, don't ask permission.

That they had.

Someone come in and some psychic or medium or whoever, somebody that they trusted, told them that was the wrong thing to do because somehow, by doing that, you're inviting the spirit in.

Because you're communicating with it, you're opening yourself up to it.

So they actually have a policy that's changed, and they said, please, don't ask permission.

Didn't and I, well, I put this sounds sounds.

People went off on me. You can call and ask them. That's help me.

I'm saying, I don't doubt you, man, I'm just saying this rule seems flagrant, dangerous, just like it was when I wandered in there one day with no knowledge of a curse doll. I didn't ask permission. I said, damn your curse. I'll take a picture anyway. And uh, thirteen years later, I tell you that's that thing's no good.

Maybe a lot of pictures I ask it I took a lot of pictures, a lot of video, and you know what I got. I got some evidence of Robert. I got on one of my devices. It said Robert and I have a recording. I'm happy to share it with Nick. It is a device that's kind of like a spirit box. And I was asking questions and I was, you know, I wasn't getting any responses. So I said something along the lines of I was with my husband. I said, you know, my husband doesn't think you're real,

Okay, I had nothing.

Nothing, and then I got giggling to that comment. So I just think, if this is the thing, if you go in there and you act poorly, then you it's kind of like, you know, you mess around, you find out. And I think that's that's what happens to a lot of people, is they tried to taunt the doll. And I think there's no difference between that though, and just the.

Law of attraction.

If you are going to be a jerk, you're going to get that karma back. And some people I think that taunt the doll and treat it badly I'm not saying you did that, but I did.

Say maybe it was already pissed off and he took it out on you.

J I was complimentary and I told him how much I liked him, because it's true.

I think he's.

When you said about inviting the doll in. I just did some research into Annabel and that's one of the things that Edam Lorraine Warren talked about with her was that that is where the original owners messed up, is when they had the seance and they gave the permission to that spirit to stay. That is when the attacks escalated, and then they had a full on infestation at that

I mean the owner actually made a video, so it's a welcome video when you go there and you're on this investigation, before you start, you have to watch this video that the owner of the museum has made and he.

Explicitly says not to ask for permission.

So that's interesting him.

I don't know.

I've visited there a long time ago, August to twenty twelve.

But the and again, there was no I was a mill of day.

It was no warnings. They were just like, hey, I was there to see an old civil war for it, it was built on a mound. Yeah, it turns out. I think a lot of weird shit happens on mounds. And Robert, you know one of those examples, what's the spirit?

And Robert, what are your thoughts on that?

So I am not totally sure what is inhabiting that doll. I'm not saying that there isn't anything inhabiting a doll, but I don't think it is quite as evil as everybody says that it is. I think a lot of the stories that you hear about the doll are okay. So, for example, the doll was running around the house, and people saw the doll running around the house.

I don't think the doll was running around the house.

It was also story of a woman supposedly the last owner of the doll, which was not part of the family. No one knows how this woman got possession of the doll. But she had possession of the doll in the nineteen nineties and she gave the doll to the museum. Just showed up one day and said, hey, do you want this? And she told then the doll locked her in a closet. I also don't believe that, but I'm not saying that there's not something there.

Right, I don't believe that either.

Right personally, don't believe a doll can lock someone in a closet because I live in on play Earth.

But he can die. We except for donating that doll right after dinner.

She was an older lady, So are we going to look at it?

I'm just saying, like, I don't know. It seemed like she has a lot of circumstances to begin with. But I agree with you and not run around and stuff.

I think a lot of it is over hyping and it all goes back to having an urban legend and it's a great story. And I'm not saying it's not haunted. I do think that there's something paranormal.

About that all. But I do things cursed.

I don't think if you if you are kind and you are not, you are not being aggressive, and you are not antagonizing it.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. I wanted to planet the.

Whole idea behind having a gate is to not have the proverbial Robert follow us home right and and the same thing with the burial itself has an aspect of that too. With the whole Hittite ritual is to put them in the ground. You stay there, go do your soul's journey, don't come back and be my Robert, so to speak. So even even Barry has this ritual gate ritual kind of reasoning similar. Anyway, I wanted to ask if there was you mentioned that the skull was related

Well, I think there are some that I find personally interesting that I think one of the top ones that I found out about when my last trip to London was the symbol of the pelican. And so you might walk right by this pelican, and you might not think anything of it, but if you look a little closer, it was heavy metal. Okay, it is a pelican, all right, and she is and all her babies are eating her flesh.

Okay.

Now the pelican is it's it can be maternal or paternal, but it's usually maternal, so it's usually the mother and it's it symbolizes a strong mother and someone who would die for their children. And you know, it's just one of those things that self sacrifice. You know, a mother does so much for her children. You know, the children are the center of her universe. But to choose that symbol,

You know, basically she sacrificed herself.

For her path and it's just interesting to me to choose the pelican for that. So I thought that was kind of neat, And once I saw one, then I started seeing more and more because it was on my radar. Another one that I really like, and I think you guys might think this is cool too, is the thistle flower. So a thistle flower is kind of like I've seen it pink or purple, right, and it's kind of spiky and it looks almost fluffy, and the stem and the

So they were sleeping in the middle of this field.

This was a tactic because the Norse didn't know about the spiky nature of the flower, so they knew that this was their best defense. So as they slept, they slept without a care in the world, and of course the Norse found them and started surrounding them. But to give an element of surprise, the Norse took off their boots and they started walking through the field of thistle, and as they cried out in pain. The Scottish had an advantage and they took the Norse army and they

So it's kind of.

An interesting thing that once you know, you know, and I love those stories.

I love finding out about.

Why you know, yeah some do.

It was just like because it was probably a common thing. We know, what, you take off your shoes to sneak up on the motherfuckers. So the pibble like, yeah, let's see a motherfucker take off their shoes now and sneak up on us. That's like I was going through someone's head. That's as about like that whole story came to me. One thing I did want to mention real quick before I wanted to kind of go into something else. I did it kind of still with the I guess more

And that's it.

Like you're gonna wear a symbol on you that even when you supposedly invoke them, this symbol is already rendering them under your control. There is no permission. You're telling the motherfucker this is why you hear, and this is what you're doing. So I do kind of understand they once you give him permission, though, what the fuck you know why You're not supposed to do anything unless I tell you to.

Like we were saying, especially with demons in the Gatia, because I think Robert the Doll was something was actually made to invoke some sort of spirit into it, could be a tulpa.

Well that was he was. He was a unique doll.

He was made by the lady who invented the teddy Bear, specifically allegedly.

By her, and she was that's true.

I think that's debunked.

I think the doll is actually from overseas somewhere, and they were able to show where it came from.

That's the staying spot. It's the it's the lady in Germany. And they even have it's this unique tag on the ear that they tracked it down with. I mean, they went to some great details in their in their studies there apparently.

I don't think hand made by the housemaid. There was a there was a lot of that going around that the nandy or whatever made the doll, and that was debunked.

Correct, This is a German lady who invented the teddy bear.

Oh oh okay, yeah, yeah.

So she was still alive at the time. She may have in fact hand crafted Robert herself. So and and again you know, speaking of these kind of nickers and the demons, the Guatia, this kind of Germanic lore of things, and I think where I where I also assert Mickey Mouse comes from in a deman demonic form as well. From this some ancient demon creatures of that era of

This was a time when when you know, Robert, you know, not every kid was after a doll.

When you know this this ranking freemason and Key West brought his grandson back this doll from Germany, as the story goes. But I would say that as far as the curses go and this thing being invoked, you know, made on purpose like that.

Like I know, a lot of it explained on the nanny because they're.

From you know, the Bahamas or whatever there, and there's some hoodoo or Voodi references. But I would put more fingers on putting more fingers towards uh, doctor Joseph Auto and the Auto family whatnot. So they're freemasons, Uh Robert Eugenoto, the owner of the doll, who you know, receives it from his grandfather, his father, you know, he's a in the kind of the same you know, medicine and freemasonry

General occult practices already.

So I know a lot it's blamed on the nanny, but I look more towards those families, whatever they were into.

I don't believe the nanny theory because I think that Nanny was very close to Robert, and if she was close to anybody in that family, it was probably the child. And reason why to put something evil on a toy that you who.

Wants to deal with that if you go to take care of the kid, get heat off the parents.

I think that the whole thing is a little is a little suspicious, and I just personally don't I don't think that nanny had anything to do with it, but I'm not saying that there wasn't anything paranormal about the doll.

I think the doll thing is strange.

I think that there's too many when there's too much smoke, there's some fire, you know, and there's too many stories about that doll for there not to be something strange. But I don't think it's quite the magnitude, as some people reported as being I just don't all right.

Uh, to get back to the semi thories.

I did want to ask if you know, uh, you had mentioned stuff, and I find this interesting for a lot of occult reasons, even kind of when it comes to the Abermelon, you're supposed to face the you know, your house should be facing to the east in a

Yes, So it's very common for Christians to be facing the east because that is where the sun rises, and the sun represents the son of a son of God, Jesus, and it is thought that when the resurrection comes, that's where Jesus will rise. So the graves are typically facing in that way, if you are religious, and many, many, many headstones in the United States, especially the older cemeteries, you will see that as evidence of Christian graves. Then

And then there is the western facing graves.

So that's the interesting one that I find is a lot of western facing graves in older cemeteries. So this doesn't apply to newer cemeteries. This is you know, we're talking eighteen hundreds here that in Victorian properties, when you saw a grave that face the west, this might have been someone that was ostracized in their town as being a witch, or someone that they thought was unholy, or someone that just wanted to give the middle finger to the town and the people that believed in God. Maybe

And there's a really good example of that in Florida.

So in Tallahassee, you can look up as a very famous story, really sad story of Elizabeth bud Graham and she has a beautiful headstone, but basically she was a gorgeous woman and of course she attracted lots of male suitors, but the one that she chose was the one that everybody wanted. And you know, he was a successful man in town, and there became a bunch of rumors that she charmed him with witchcraft because maybe she wasn't the most wealthy high society woman, and why did he want

Was a witch.

And when she died kind of suddenly, the town actually

Respect for an injustice.

And that is one of the graves that we have in our state, where people come from all around and leave her presence. But it's just an interesting thing because it's in the older cemeteries. It's very they ostracize them so much in life and they continue to do it in death that you know, it's kind of a sad situation.

But nowadays graves face any old way. It just depends on the plot.

It depends on you know, how much you want to spend and it you know, there's really it's all arbitrar right now. But it's an interesting to look at, an interesting thing to look at, and you can typically even if someone's grave doesn't tell you what their religion is, you can kind of figure it out based on that.

It's listen, look, you want to ask something I do.

So with your work in cemeteries, I know you said you've done some paranormal investigation when it comes to Robert the Dahl, have you conducted any other paranormal research while in some cemeteries and found some more let's say, charged than others.

So that's a really good question, and it's one of those things in the paranormal field that is a hot topic.

Are cemeteries haunted?

And I think some of them really truly are, but I would say most aren't. And I think for me, usually when I'm in a cemetery, I'm taking pictures. You know, I'm there for the art, but sometimes I'll bring a spear, a box or you know, something like that with me, and I have gotten some interesting evidence in cemeteries before I.

Would say the most.

There's a couple notable ones, but one was in the Daytona Cemetery. I don't know if you've ever been to Daytona Brook, you know, are you familiar with that area.

I've not been to the cemetery, but Daytona yes, Okay.

So in Daytona there's a strip which is very populated with a lot of biker bars.

Okay.

I was there on an investigation for a biker bar. So I was there to investigate the saloon. The saloon, known as the Boothill Saloon now the Boothill Saloon, before it became a saloon, was a mortuary that serviced the cemetery across the street. Then over time it became purchased and turned into a bar. So the bars haunted.

That's why I was.

I was there, but I also wanted to check out the cemetery while I was in town. So while I had done a little research before I got there, and I knew of one specific story which is really spooky, and it was in the nineteen nineties. There was a group of teenage boys and what they were doing is they were breaking into mausoleums.

And they had a midnight club. So they would get together.

They would hold these meetings in a mausoleum. But somewhere along the line, they started going through the graves and maybe robbing the you know, the coffins and stuff like that.

And when they were.

Caught one of the graves that they had been messing around with, the skull was missing. So a lot of people felt at that time that certain paranormal activity that was starting to ramp up in the area was because these kids stole a skull. Now, when I went to this property, I happened to be walking around, and as I always do, I oftentimes meet people that earn enthusiasts. You know, maybe they see me taking pictures and they

From the mausoleums.

So I'm up there and I'm asking questions about the skull and I heard the words gate, and I said, did someone steal parts of your gate?

And it said yes.

And then I asked more questions because I think I'm talking to something intelligent, and I said, did this happen recently? And it said yes, and I was it was really interesting. And then I was going around.

I found some.

Graves that were toppled, and I got what sounded like a woman asking for help, and then a man immediately said help her, and I said, I can't pick up this grave, ma'am. You know, I'm sorry, but you know

I think Protestant.

I'm not sure who else, but it wasn't you know, there was a Christian spot and then there was this spot. Now, the Huguenots Cemetery was the site of a mass grave after the yellow fever epidemic, So there was all these people dying of yellow fever and the bodies were piling up. People didn't want to claim their bodies of their family members because if they said, yes, my husband had yellow fever, guess what.

They're going to do.

They're going to come to your house. And they burned the houses down because they didn't understand how to quarantine or how to you know, fix the problem.

So they figured, oh, the disease.

Must be in your house, so let's just burn it down. So all these people were not claiming their loved ones, so all their loved ones were eventually put into a large mass grave and they've confirmed on the property there's at least two that they know about this on the Huguenots side. So I was there randomly because I go all the time. I was there on a ghost tour. I was just walking around, just taking pictures, not thinking

I don't know.

Is that how he's saying, no, no, I just love it.

And then there's a woman that's right next to him. She's a little less clear, and it looks like she's wearing a bonnet and kind of like a fluffy kind of you know material I don't know, like an old timey looking.

Dress, and it is wild. And I took three pictures back to back.

So I always tell you in paranormal investigations, take a burst and you can see them manifesting in one, you can see them full body in the second one, and then in the last one you don't see anything. They're gone and it's the same spot and they're live photos, so you can actually see them in the photos on

Gina. I was going to say, you mentioned the robbery of a human school, and the first thing that pained in my head was the show that we did about the Colton Mexico Polo Miambi was the religion that they practiced and one of the requirements of a human school and their cauldron, and it was to invoke the ancients or the spirits to get them to do their will

I think that that whole story is horrific that that happened, and I think that the act of doing that definitely left some negative energy on that property. I don't know if those kids were intelligent enough to be doing anything, you know, ac cult related, or if they just saw a movie and they wanted to have a secret society and they thought it was cool.

I don't know, but I do know that they were I know they were.

High school aged, so it's possible. But you know, it's a shame for a couple of reasons. It's a shame because obviously they desecraated a grave. Two, they might have

It's funny how you mentioned even like that type of situation. I can say not for me doing it, but from people I was with and witnessed. It was even there, Like I lived it over in Ronkonkoma when we lived on Lake ron knk you know, right near Lake Ronkonkoma, and you can walk along it, and there was like a lot of like interesting things like even like brick wolves. They're just like things like left over that are there and places you can tag or spray paint and this

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Right?

No, if I'm just saying, like I even know, that's.

To telling folks that dungeons the dragons with Satan, John Todd's and an ocultist who's did did ears for rape and all sorts of other stuff. So you know, there was a lot of what I'm saying is there was there was a satanic panic. There was also satanic human sacrifices going on, and then they there was a mixture of convincing folks. It's anyone who listens to Slayer or has long hair and wears a black T shirt, it's suddenly you know of Satan, right, Yeah, Well, are.

You guys familiar with the Memphis three he is and that whole trial of three teenagers who were literally only guilty of listening to Metallica, and.

He he'll disagree with you on that one.

I say, I'm gonna have to disagree with you.

Man.

There's a lot of friends of Evin and saying their own admissions. They're big Krowleyites, and they admitted so under oath even in the hearing echoes.

That is well, that's a more in depth.

But there's also a lot of things that were stretched in that situation, including a man that had a mail order law degree that claimed that he was a specialist in Satanic everything, which was hilarious to me that he was even called to be a specialist in that case.

So oh yeah, well, I will say that that guy was kind of joke. Yeah, I'll agree with that.

Yeah, I'll claiming that fixes in on both sides. But if you listen to the original detective's work, those fellas on the ground and their reports, they did a great job and they again even got some great admissions from

By it's very nature is a play of guilt.

I'm I'm aware of what plea they use. But you know, there was specifically the kid who was the one who admitted guilt was who had the mental capacity of a nine year old and he was yes, And he was interrogated without his parents' permission. And all of those recordings are available online and they are absolutely absolutely coerced in every way sense of the word.

And are you familiar with the statements of Damien Eckles probation officer.

No, I'm not, off the top of my head, they don't.

They don't.

They don't bed well for Damien. I understand Jesse miss kellying again that things were I don't disagree.

I don't. I'm not signing off on the event.

The full fledged nature of all those activities went on in that investigation and proceedings in court, but a lot of it became a circus.

If you asked me.

But I'm saying that the initial investigation and the guys on the ground, there's initial detectives.

I give them two THO is.

Up for their for their for their police work, because they did some great, some great stuff there. And I'm not saying that again they didn't possibly uh, you know, want to get more evidence from all parties. But again, the evidence they got from folks like the probation officer of Eccles et cetera, where he had statements that what you would call an investigation would be you know, statements that are they are reserved to the investigators, and they call them polygraph keys.

For an example, would be one one reference.

And it's something that when you're questioning your your your suspects, or just any kind of investing in your investigation, that if folks know those details, then they know then you know, they know something about the intimate details of the crime. So Eckles had numerous of those flags with this probation officer and under questioning.

All right, well again and back to the cemeteries.

Uh, yes, I apologize for for geeking out on the rustal human sacrifice murders.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's I understand it, But it is cemeteries on the on this topic. Yeah, yes, I did want to start asking you about symbolism that were on these things. You also did mention I think beehives, correct, Yeah, could you maybe get into that, like some of the things you noticed, So a little.

Bit about that is kind of the idea of community and of you know, working for the greater good. So it's you know, one of those things where the bee is by itself. It can't accomplish much, but together it can accomplish many great things, which is an interesting, I think, an interesting symbol to be found.

I haven't seen any.

Myself, but I know that they exist a lot in the Midwest, and there are some ties. I want to say, there's some ties to certain fraternal orders that may also have that the beehive on there as well.

Yeah, I know Mormons and Mason's huge with that basically the same thing. I also know you did mention I think in their roosters, correct, What was the situation that was something that you would notice? I guess on specific the rooster.

I actually have to look that one up one off the top of my head.

Is the rooster specifically or is it the chicken foot?

No, it's the rooster, Okay.

Yeah, I know that could be a symbol for mercury or.

Like kurme sometimes, so I'm sorry, what I.

Know it can be like a symbol for like Mercury type of gods sometimes the.

Rooster, faith, victory over death, strength, fidelity, spiritual protection, and power. As far as the areas, you're going to see a lot of that in uh, there are a lot of areas around South Florida that you're going to find roosters, because roosters are common in Cuba, and they're common in Key West, and they're also common in Tampa, believe it or not, because a lot of the Cuban population moved to Tampa, so you see a lot of those there.

And that's cool. You bring up that they're spiritual protectors because the chicken foot, I brought that up. That's a sign for protection and warding off bad spirits. And then depending sometimes you'll see the nails painted different colors. I believe purple is more for spiritual and red is for any just general negativity. I actually have a chicken foot tattoo.

That's cool.

Yeah, so that's I was curious. I got my chicken foot nice.

I love that.

Was there any other like we've gone on a bit already, I mean, but is there any other type of symbolism that you think you can like maybe mention or that you noticed that you would like to talk about, like or like certain kind of like either symbols of art or whatever.

I guess, okay, So there's one that I really like. As someone who likes to read. There are a lot of books that you're going to see on headstones and mausoleums. Now, an open book usually means that a person's life was cut short, as in they didn't finish reading the chapter, they didn't get to the last chapter. Sometimes if you see the book closed, that can indicate that someone made it to their last chapter and that they had a

So the shells were a nod to that too, which was interesting.

And yeah, there's I mean, there's quite a few different symbols in the book.

I do talk about just about every flower.

And what's neat about when I work with this publisher was that I don't have pictures of every single flower of the in the world on a headstone. But what we did was we made some AI images so that way, if someone is in a cemetery and they do find a flower carved into a grave, you can, you know, you'll have a guide to kind of look and try to match the flower, because sometimes I found in my wanderings, you know, you might see something that looks like a daffodil,

Did you notice a lot of daisies.

I do see a lot of daisies, And that was one that came up as purity I think is the main, the main symbolism to that one, and you see it a lot on younger people's graves. And one thing that came up over and over again was daisies kind of reminded people of just joy and happiness and the light of someone's life.

And that was something that came up a lot.

Is somebody who was the light in a family was often given daisies.

Do you ever notice daisies and seashells together? I have not, Yeah, the reason even as daisies, because when you mentioned seashells, I do believe they're actually cult symbolism. I think they're both used for the same thing.

Also, I mean if you see seashells carved into the graves but not physical, if you see seashells carved a lot of times, that it's a Christian symbolism.

And it had something to do with opties.

So I know we talked a little bit about scallops last time, the scallop shells, but because you said that you were talking about the venus and there being eyes

That's interesting. It's interesting how you mentioned that. I love how you mentioned the pouring of the water because this is like one of the reasons why I think the seashell u and I a would even you know seashell The daisy in two uh kind of like represents the

I do. I do. When you went to the gravestones in Mexico, did you see a lot of simple so chill. I think that's how you pronounce the not one the marygold, the Mexican marigold.

Yes, yes, that is a very common flower to see on late at grave sites. And that's also a very common flower to see carved into headstones of people that have Mexican lineage, and it is I think it's a really pretty flower. And I you know, when you when you go there and you see the color is such a beautiful contrast to that cold stone, you know, backdropped and then you have this beautiful, beautiful pops of color. I've actually really would like to go during the Dia

Beautiful.

Yes, I've seen so many pictures of it, but you can. It's definitely when you when you see the properties. That is a very common flower to see left a head at the headstones, and I think people do go pretty often. It's one thing I noticed about Mexico is people go pretty often to refresh the flowers. You see a lot of fresh flowers when you go. And another country that I noticed that happens a lot is in Greece, and I think it's something about and also in Japan is families.

It's normal to go and to.

Refresh and it's I think that's really sweet and I wish, you know, we had a little bit more of that in our country.

It was it was always on all holidays, birthdays, anniversaries or anything like that. You go when you refresh the flowers, and you also leave a jar of water m hm.

And that's also common, very very common in Japan. And I actually have a really cool video. I'd love to share it with you. I was in the I was a little north of Tokyo and I was at a shrine and just past the shrine there was a cemetery and I was just walking.

It was very quiet, there was hardly anybody there and in.

Front of these so Japanese headstones are a little different than ours. They're usually a large block with a slightly smaller block, and then they're behind the large block there's like a it's almost like a vase. And they have these long boards that are printed with different prayers and also family members information, and these boards can be interchanged and moved, and usually right in the front they put

So the crow flies over, it sits, it looks up at the grave. It's looking around.

It comes closer to the cup and it starts drinking from the cup, and then it looks up and it keeps its mouth open, and it looked like it was trying to look at the grave. It is the freakiest thing I have ever seen. And it's there for a while, and it really felt like some sort of spiritual thing. It really did, because the bird was there for a good ten minutes. And I have most of this on video of just sitting very still looking up at the grave as if it's reading it and taking SIPs out of the tee.

Just it was wild. But that was another place that you find a lot of offerings like that.

Did anybody want to ask anything else?

Did you come across any number symbolism and or were there any more like other rather secreted kind of things you mentioned, like the Freemasons, if they did something significant.

Yeah, well, I haven't really noticed anything with number symbolism, but I would say there's some interesting kind of you know, some kind of more secretive symbols. You know, might include trying to think off the top of my head, like something warm, a cob, chains, broken chains. You'll see that

I didn't report it.

In the book, but it is something that came up in a few personal blogs and things. I really didn't come across too many things that were nefarious or you know, negative necessarily, But if you dig into any sort of you know, occult symbolism, you might find and that there might be certain placements of fruit that might mean something. There could be you know, in paintings, there are certain symbolisms that have a darker meaning. So I guess it

Fascinating stuff.

Thank you, well, thank you very much. Yeah, I appreciate it, had a great time. I would like you, uh yeah, hopefully maybe actually get you on for some of your investigations. So I would love that, Yeah, because I have seen some impressive stuff that you've boasted on that as well. So uh, I guess we'll go back around the ruin. Let everybody like their shows again. Sorry with you, Ethan. Please let everybody know where they can find all your amazing work and all your books.

That was awesome, Gana, thank you so much for sharing those great Ethan Indigo Smith on all the usual social media. More articles to come on a Cult Reject Institute Research Institute.

Thank you and thanks you guys. Hell yeah, well, thank you Eave and mister J. J. Vanski's the vice president. What's going on, sir.

Nick, Thanks again, sir, appreciate the conversation. Genia.

Was great to meet you, ma'am fellow rejects. Always a fun time. Yeah, Operation GCD, uh wed's they talking what's today?

Tuesday Tomorrow, I'm talking robin Hood and nights Templar Tale and some comparative analysis of the story of Robinhood the Magna Carta in the US Constitution.

And then Friday, we actually have ething coming on Nick on Fridays this week here at nine pm Eastern Standard times. And then Operation GCD Sundays on Patreon, I'm talking Buffalo Jared Visa, one of my one of my favorite topics, my old former almost PR reps slash stalker termed apparently mind controlled multi state homicidal transpocalypse assassin.

So that'll be a fun filled barn burner tail right there.

So don't forget.

I appreciate time. Good go ahead, now thanks again.

Yeah, no problem the role and don't forget remember this guy, Jared, he was a licensed hypnotherapist.

Was oh he's yeah dude from a prominent family. They broke the curse of speaking of curses, they broke the curse of the goat. The family business did the Revisa sports hypnotist business. The Chicago Cubs credit them Ken Revisa as the reason why they won the World series. Finally, it was almost predicted by Back to the Future too. Back to Future two predicted it in twenty fifteen. It occurred in twenty sixteen, So that's a that's a weird kind of you know, because we just said the Back

If people are listening catching this or the replay before tomorrow night, I highly suggest to go check out that show tomorrow. You already know it's going to be a banger. I'm actually going to check it out. I'd really like to see what he's got to say on this. And Brooke from Dark Florida please let everybody know where they can find your amazing show.

Yeah, you can find me on Instagram and wherever you get your podcasts at Dark Florida Podcasts. And thank you for having me on again. Love joining the fellow rejects. And it was so nice to get to talk to you. Gina. You've given me much to think about, especially because a lot I know, somebody dropped in the chat about cemeteries and cryptids, and they do overlap a lot. So I'm anxious to get a copy of your book so I can start seeing some more about it.

Thank you, and I'd love to talk with you about some cryptid stories of my own. I know that wasn't really the aim tonight, but it's definitely live in a fun state for that, so we certainly do.

And last but not Lisa, Lisa, what is going on you called reject science?

Yes, Gina, thank you so much for that. Yet, like Brooke said, so much, like I wrote down so many notes of things I look into, and I appreciate all the work, the research that you did going to all these different cemeteries. That's that's a big deal, I think, and I look forward to looking into listening to your investigations on some of this other stuff because I think

Awesome, no, thank you. And finally, Gina, please let everybody know where they can find your work and where they can find your book.

Please, Well, thank.

You so much for having me.

I really enjoyed our conversation tonight and I am so happy to meet all of you guys, Ethan, JJ, Brooke, and it was nice to see you again, Lisa and Nick. And if anybody is interested in checking out my work, you can visit she haunts dot com and there are links to my book. You can get it on Kindle. It's also available on paperback via Amazon right now, and it will soon be available on Barnes.

Andnoble dot com.

And on my Instagram account you can check out paranormal There's all kinds of little cemetery hidden meaning videos. I do just do tidbits, little bite sized portions, so you can learn a little fun fact here and there if you'd like.

There's also I do.

A lot of paranormal research locally and also around the country, so there's some videos on that.

And I'm just open to, you know.

Meeting new people, new like minded, you know, paranormal enthusiasts, cemetery lovers, so please come by and say hi. I try to interact with everybody and get to know everybody on there, and I.

Just want to say thank you again for having me and letting me talk.

About my book, and that is called etchedIn Stone Decoding Hidden Meetings and Cemeteries. And I really appreciate every you know, everybody's input in questions and getting to know you guys.

It was a lot of fun.

I love I love being able to come on and talk with like minded folks.

Yeah, no, thank you very much. I really appreciate it for people listening, you know, I know, obviously, believe it or not, most of the people that listen to this show are probably into the occult or occultists. I just you know, for me, I think if you're into the occult, you're definitely gonna like this book.

So check it out.

You're gonna find a lot of like just random information things that you'll be like, oh that is interesting. You'll find yourself someting to run jamtra and shit, that's what I was doing. So so definitely check it out if you're into the occult. I think there's some actually good gems in here that she doesn't even realize for an ocultist. So thank you again, Gina. And like I said, well,

It's a nice guy.

Yeah, he just works.

Some interesting he's got some interesting perspectives. I'm sure that would be a good conversation. I didn't know he's joining you all. That's that is a surprise.

Yeah, I invited you on it.

I told you, you know, I know, I forgot you know, because I again I didn't think it was really gonna happen.

No, no, no, I've confirmed to him a few times already.

This I found it in the department of This is probably no, I know.

I think it's actually gonna happen, which is pretty wild.

Uh.

It will definitely be making uh making waves, gossip and you know whatever, making history in the conspiracy community in some way. So come check it out. If it happens tomorrow. Uh yeah, and that is it and until the next one, everybody'd be well Later