SERIES REVIEW: The Penguin

Hey, this is Tyler Crook, the co-creator of Harrow County and the creator of The Lonesome Hunters, and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast. Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 173 of the Oblivion Bar podcast. I'm your city counselor slash drophead Chris Hacker and joining me is the dark creature of the night with some serious mommy and daddy issues. My co-host and BFF Aaron Oles.

I'm going to run this goddamn city Vic. It's me and you against the whole damn world kid. It's pretty good Aaron. You've been working on that or is that is that just manufactured right here for the show? That's that's like my normal like New York accent. Is that what he has? Is it like just like a Brooklyn accent essentially? I feel like it's either like because here's the thing in this show. Gotham City is in New Jersey every time.

you keep noticing it every time they show somebody's driver's license or ID, it says Gotham like New Jersey. that's interesting. Yeah. I was always wondering where because they always say like Gotham is a mixture of like Chicago, New York and you know, maybe parts of like the the bank side of New Jersey. I don't know. I don't remember where it was, but I remember in like Batman v Superman because, know, like from Lex Luthor's tower, they could literally look across the river and see Gotham.

Like there was that rivalry. So it would be like New York versus New Jersey, which to me is like, that's never been like the correct geography. So it's weird that that is the way it is. You're so right. It's funny. I've watched this. One of the many problems with the Sachs Schneider DCU, DC EU, I guess is what it was called, was how close two of the major cities in the US were right next to each other, which doesn't make sense because Metropolis is in like the Midwest. and Chicago, right?

Yeah. And then you have Gotham, which is on the East Coast, which is New York, New York. So anyway, point being everybody, we're talking about the Penguin this week. It fucking matter. It doesn't fucking. That's another universe, Aaron. We're talking about this world, Episode 173, we're talking about the Penguin. Of course, Aaron, we had to delay the discussion of this episode, show, because Aaron was on vacation last week, everybody. was a vacation. OK, it was a retreat.

What's the difference between a retreat and a vacation? One is more needed than the other. What is like necessary for my? Yes. Yes. One is one is like is very like you should go on a vacation every once in Take care of mental health. A retreat is something that is kind of necessary for your mental health. All right. Well, less than 30 words. How was that retreat? Phenomenal. That was one word. All right. That's all you need. One word. was amazing. was phenomenal.

Honestly, honestly, it was it was really eye opening. And just I don't I don't really have the I could probably do if we if we talk about on the grid I could probably talk about more in depth on the grid But just give folks people who are listening this episode really quick. Just what did you do over the last week? So actually last weekend I flew to I want to say it was South Carolina I'm really bad with the cities in the Carolinas speaking of geography.

I exactly do I'm not two things I'm terrible at geography and math and a lot of other things but went to South Carolina and basically spoke to a group of one-wheel riders about shred the stress and hung out with a really good friend of mine, Bart Miller, who is one of the most influential and phenomenal people, like just positive spirits in the one-wheel community.

like, if you ever look up like one-wheel crash, Bart Miller is the guy that you'll see going like 30 miles an hour on one of the earliest iterations of a one-wheel board with the bud light in his hand and no protective gear.

So he went from that guy being kind of like that was his what he was known for to now just being one of the most like positive spirits because he learned he learned that when you have that kind of presence in a community you have to be a voice in a platform for good and that's all that he does now is he takes care of people like mind body spirit within the community and he just wants to put the community up on this pedestal and you know like

and cultivate the goodness of it because that's what it is to a lot of people it creates us that's why I started shred the stress because it just brings positivity into people's worlds. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, like I said, everybody will talk about that more on the grid. If you want to hear Aaron talk about his entire retreat, may just spend the entire episode talking about that, because I'm curious.

I haven't talked to you in over like it's basically been like 10 days since we've had like a full conversation. Yeah. I mean, it's weird because I missed it because like I was like, I haven't texted Chris in so long and I was like, I miss my boy. I miss my boy.

And honestly, like, I think if there's ever a chance that you could go along with it, like, I think that you would do great with I know you're not really like all touchy feely like talk about your feelings in a circle, but like I don't know if you've ever meditated or you've ever considered it like yoga, meditation, like I did some crazy shit. I did some fun shit. I did some weird shit.

I did some stuff that I never expected, but I left this week and it was literally got back yesterday and I feel like I'm in a new body, but like with the old pain a little bit. like I'm just very, I'm very present in my body from everything that I went through. And it's definitely something that I think a lot of veterans need. Well, they say that, you know, you don't ever get over trauma. You don't get rid of trauma. You basically just find new ways to adapt to it.

It sounds like you're on the right track for that. And it's nice to have those kind of situations where you can go off with people who have either similar or, you know, a different type of trauma. You guys can sort of compare and contrast. And also, I resent the fact that you said that don't talk about my feelings. I am sensitive and fragile. No, no, I don't mean it like that. Like, I don't. You're not like somebody who like who I would imagine that goes into like a sharing circle.

You know, I'm not saying that that's what I did, like I'm an oversharer, but like in like an inappropriate way. Yeah. Yeah. But I will say this, if anybody's curious about it, make sure you guys go look up mission flexible. That was the name of the retreat and the place where the tree retreat was, was up in like, it was up in like the Berkshires, which is in Massachusetts, I believe, but pretty much like 30 minutes away from Albany, New York.

And the, the location of the retreat was a, was a yoga. It actually used to be like a monastery. It's called Kripalu, K-R-I-P-A-L-U, and the place is phenomenal. It's like a whole different world. It's beautiful up there. I'll tell you what, we'll go ahead and put a link in the show notes for everybody. If you're listening right now and this seems interesting to you, if you're a veteran or what have you, just take a look in the show notes and we'll have some links in there for you.

But let's move on to the show here. got, if you want to support this Tom Foolery that we have here on the Oblivion Bar podcast, there's one very easy way, Aaron, and that's over on Patreon. That's patreon.com. forward slash oblivion bar pod for your support. You can gain access to our weekly bonus episode called the grid, which is basically stream of consciousness. Just letting our freak flag fly over there on the grid. You hang out with us and the programs.

You know, we named all the people that are over on Patreon, but we've never actually named ourselves. Are we like the flames? Is that what we are? What are we in the grid? they'll have to they'll have to go join the grid to find that out. We should discuss that. Yeah, not only do get the grid over on Patreon, you also get a look at episode transcripts. You could earn some merch. We give out free. We send out free packages of comics and stickers and all types of stuff that we do over on Patreon.

So once again, patreon.com forward slash oblivion bar pod. You can give it a seven day free trial. So if you want to check it out for free and then decide whether you want to join us over there, we hope that you do go check it out. And we're going to get that newsletter kick back off. I got to take care of that. So that's on me. That's my bad. That's on me. Aaron, we'll start it with the newsletter here probably in the next month or so. And yeah.

All right, everybody, let's go ahead and get into our News and Notes.

and notes. Alrighty, starting us off here with our News and Notes, have George R.R. Martin is teasing a new project with Maisie Williams. So while updating fans on the progress of the next installment in the Game of Thrones series, Winds of Winter, Aaron, that book will never come out. Just it's just not going to happen, guys. What was the update on the book? I don't know if he had an update on the book, but he had an update on some more television, which is that twist.

Yeah. Everybody wins a winner. Still happening. Still right on. Anyway, here's other things. Martin Ruessley shared on his blog that he got together with Maisie Williams for pizza and pasta and they talked about dot dot dot. Well, no, better not get into that. Don't want to jinx it, but it could be much fun is what he says there. So it's not like he was speaking directly to his fans like vocally. He didn't have to write that.

That's my biggest gripe with this first bit of news is like he could have just not included it if he was just going to say, I was hanging out with Maisie Williams for a secret project, but I'm not going to tell you anything about it. And I can't say anything about it, right? Like, doesn't that seem a little, a little weird. I just give them the people a little app a teaser. He knows his audience.

I don't know if you're tracking what George RR Martin is often doing over on his blog, but he's just, just putting himself in hot water often. Like he, I apparently he went out and critiqued or I should say criticized the game of Thrones. Well, house, the dragon show runners, for the season two mix up that doesn't exactly follow the book of fire and blood. And he had to immediately delete that. But the internet is forever. So people, of course, screen-shotted it.

now I'm assuming whatever things he's planning with Maisie Williams here, if it's not for sure concrete, it's probably on the rocks because they know that George R.R. Martin is often going to critique what they do with his properties. Why doesn't he just go with George R.R. Yeah, I don't know what the two R.R. are. What are the two R's, Aaron? Rescue Ranger? you Could be George rescue ranger Martin. Why two of them? I'm just George R squared Martin. It's more pros. It's more novelistic.

Neither one of those adapt what I just said there, but it's okay. Anyway, moving on. Obviously this is not any, you know, specific shout out to a game of Thrones spinoff. This could be anything. But as we know, Aaron, I don't know if you've ever, did you ever get back to the final episode of Game of Thrones? Like I know you famously. You famously have watched the entire series of Game of Thrones minus the last episode. So you haven't gone back then. I totally forgot about it. All right.

Well, I'm going to spoil or something for you really quick, Aaron. OK. Basically, at the end of the series, Arya Stark decides not to stick around in Westeros and decides to instead hop on a boat and travel west. Now, famously that I see that. Yeah. And she kind of wants to go. She's a person who kind of goes to the beat of her own drum. She's not someone to follow the way of the other characters like she does in the series. She's often.

on her own somewhere else, either in Westeros or in Essos or where have you. And fans of Game of Thrones will tell you that when you look at a map of the Fire and Ice world, I don't know if there's an actual world name to it, but basically the map ends at the Sunset Sea, which is the west of Westeros, right out where the Ironborn are. So this could lead to some interesting new Game of Thrones material that's not even been seen in the books because again, book readers will tell you.

Anytime that George talks about the West of Westros, he doesn't really give a definitive answer. And all the characters that have gone West have never come back. again, being someone who I think has a passing interest of Game of Thrones, but hasn't watched House of the Dragon, hasn't watched the finale of Game of Thrones, what is your thoughts on this? Would you be interested in this at all?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. If it's not going to follow any kind of like book story line, I could see some interest in it because now I don't have to worry about people going, well, actually, there's nothing wrong with Well, actually, guys, actually pushing the glasses up. no, mean, it could be cool. I've always liked, you know, it's shows that are like, you know, exploring like that's I mean, to be honest, that's kind of the one thing that I really enjoyed about what's it called? How to train your dragon.

Sure. Yeah. You know, the whole idea of hiccup. taking his dragon and just kind of exploring different islands and going beyond and pushing the borders of his world.

I think that that's a really fun concept to add to any universe that has lot of unknowns to it because especially with, again, Game of Thrones, you have different characters, have different religions, you have different belief structures, have different, hell, have different mythological creatures like, know, wyverns and lizards and dragons and all this stuff. Who knows what else is out there? I'm sure they've...

I'm sure they've revealed some creatures in probably house of the dragon that we didn't even that we never saw in game of Thrones. And so I mean, it could be cool. Yeah, they've mentioned Georgia sort of this has never come out in the books, but George has mentioned that like could be that some people that travel west run into like a Kraken or they have like sea dragons. Apparently there's there's different type of dragons depending on which terrain you're in. They're like Pokemon.

They sort of change their attributes based on where they're at. Avatar, you know. yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of traveling, speaking of Game of Thrones, we have Sophie Turner is set to play Laura Croft in the live action Tomb Raider series. Now, for the upcoming Phoebe Waller Bridge adaptation of PlayStation, the PlayStation classic, Deadpool and Wolverine star Emma Corrin and Speak No Evil's Mackenzie Davis were both in consideration. But the Game of Thrones star won out in the end.

Now, Aaron, you recently just I know you you've watched both of these movies, Deadpool, Wolverine and Speak No Evil. Between. Sophie Turner, Emma Corrine and Mackenzie Davis. Is Sophie the lead there for you as well? Not really. I don't really like her. You don't like Sophie Turner. Is it because of Sansa in the show? That might be kind of that might be it. I really like Emma Corrine as you know, because she kind of has this very different presence.

Yeah. I don't think from from looking at I mean, again, maybe maybe Sophie Turner will surprise me, but I've always seen. Lara Croft is having this kind of, not like a classiness to her, but like, yeah, like a grit that can, much like James Bond and I don't, maybe not James Bond, but she has like, Lara Croft always had this ability kind of go between being very luxurious, very model, like very graceful, very beautiful.

And then also like really just fucking shit up, you know, in her green tank top and shorts and exploring the jungle. which is not really practical at all because of the bugs. But I just feel like Sophie Turner. And again, maybe she'll surprise me really nicely in this. And I just don't see her being able to kind of like bridge that gap. Sure. It is an interesting pick. I will say that same for me a little bit. I honestly, out of these three, I would have maybe picked Mackenzie Davis.

If you remember, she was also in that Terminator movie from a couple of years ago that no one really saw or liked. But I will say that I think Sophie Turner is a good. actor overall, you know, it's funny that we're talking about both Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner. You could honestly throw Richard Madden. You could throw, you know, Kit Harrington, even Amelia Clark. All of these characters, all of these actors who were once on Game of Thrones have not really done super well.

Like you're talking about Maisie Williams. I haven't seen her in anything besides Doctor Who. And, and, you know, maybe I'm miss speaking here, but most people will tell you that the later Doctor Who's have not been incredible. Sophie Turner has showed up as an X-Men. was Jean Grey. Not great. People didn't love that adaptation. Otherwise, haven't seen her in anything else. Kit Harrington. He's obviously the Black Knight in The Eternals. Haven't seen anything from The Eternals since then.

You've got Amelia Clarke, Secret Invasion, Need I Say More. Not great. She was good in The Pod Generation though, I will say that. Small indie film with, I'm forgetting the name of the studio now, but she was good in that. And then- I Amelia Clarke- not too long ago released her own comics like series. It was called like Mother or Mama or something like that. know she so and that seemed to do I mean pretty well from the amount of times I saw that kind of like selling out on shelves.

So I don't I don't I mean I see I could see her absolutely doing like a like a Lara Croft because didn't wasn't there another like a show Lara Croft that was that not her? So Tomb Raider there was obviously the newer games, but I don't think there's been a TV series at all. No, it was hold on There was a movie. I'm Alicia Vikander. Yeah, she was in Ex Machina. She's been a lot of things obviously.

Yeah, Alicia Vikander I think is like perfect casting I wish they could continue to do something with that with her interpretation But of course, you know when something bombs in Hollywood often that's how that's your loss. Yeah, like you you've lost your chance on trying anymore but You know, when previously teasing the project, Waller-Bridge said there's not, and it's funny that she says what I'm about to read her quote here, because you mentioned this with James Bond.

She's directly referring James Bond as an inspiration here. So again, when previously teasing the project, Waller-Bridge said, there's only so much I can incorporate. mean, the character of Lara Croft was inspired by Indiana Jones and James Bond. So I think you were right, Aaron. think that James Bond, Indiana Jones, you could even say what's that PlayStation series that people really liked for And what is it called? We are losing our words today. We cannot know anything. It's un.

Uncharted, uncharted, as close. Unfucking chartable. Was that Tom Holland? He fucking nailed that Tom Holland. Mark Wahlberg, I actually really enjoyed that one. I didn't like it at all. You don't have to. You don't have to. I loved it. It's like my sense of humor. You don't have to laugh. As long as I laugh, I'm fucking funny.

Not my uncharitable, unfucking charitable Tomb Raider general manager Dallas Dixon and the game producers from the 2008 shadow of the Tomb Raider are set to be involved with the series. This of course is being produced by Amazon Studios in conjunction with MGM and will produce a film along with this series as well. At some point. A lot of investment. That was about to say you're so right. That seems a little premature everybody, but That seems to be what Amazon is doing.

They're just throwing money at the wall and hoping that franchises stick. I mean, if they continue to do the same quality they did with Fallout and, you know, from and some of these other shows that I about rings of fire. Is that is that one good? Is that rings of fire? Is that the is that the that's the are you talking about the Lord of the Rings? I have not. I've not watched a people fucking love it, man. You get black hour. think it's called actually. Yeah. Rings of power.

If you if you I've never seen a black elf before, you know. It's a new day in age, It is. is. All right. Well, anyway, take us into our last of the news here. Lego lost contact with my father, you know. I really hate my father. Here's a quick question before we move on to the next bit of news and notes. How did you feel? And I know you don't fucking lie to me. How did you feel about Tomb Raider movies with Angelina Jolie?

I think that when I was a kid, I thought they were silly and stupid, but as I've gotten older, I've grown to appreciate them on a whole new level. I think they're actually really fun action films. They're like, I'm starting to not like the idea of turn your brain off that like thought of like, turn your brain off and have fun because that implies that like the people that made these movies had to turn their brain off to create them. I'm not a big fan of that.

I will say they're just sort of leisurely action films that are sexy and just sort of like action packed. Absolutely. I mean, I think that I can enjoy them for the same reason I enjoyed them when I was an adolescent. Yeah. And also between those lines, if you want to everybody. Yes. I mean, they are. They're fun romps. They're basically like video games that you don't have to play. They're silly. They're crazy. almost unbelievable and unrealistic at times. I mean, so is so many other things.

So is mission impossible, you know, and we love those series. So it's like it is what it is, man. You know, don't I get it. I agree. Don't necessarily turn your brain off, because when you turn your brain off, that means that implies that you don't have to enjoy it like your brains there to enjoy things and interpret things that you want to like remember and enjoy and think are silly and crazy. I pick apart movies all the time. It doesn't mean I don't like them.

You know, mean, I don't think about them. actually here's one thing I try and do some movies that are terrible. I try and make it work in my brain. I try and figure out how to fill those plot holes sometimes. And I and I enjoy that. Same. Yeah. I mean, there are plenty of dumb movies out there that we love. mean, I think the classic example that we often go to is like Starship Troopers that a lot for a long time people thought was like a very silly sort of throw away action film.

But there's like a lot of subtext in that movie that is purposely campy because they're poking fun. at a lot of industries, not only in the US, but in the world that are terrible, right? You know, like nationalism and our militarization of everything and how we sort of provoke our youth to join the military, to fight the good, you know, and all that stuff. Like only a good bug is a dead bug. It's literally speaking on like the war on terrorism. yeah, anyway, I totally agree.

I'm sort of done with the idea of like turn your brain off and have fun stuff because... while you can think about it less. Not everything has to be so thought provoking and and dour like I'm past my age 24 phase, Aaron. I'm ready to like I want to see colors and lights. All right. Hundred. Hundred ten percent. Hundred ten percent. So next next up is the Green Lantern. You know, one of the Green Lanterns, John Stewart has received his own bronze statue in Burbank, California.

Can you believe that? I believe it. So back in 2020 Warner Brothers for me, our life size Batman statue in Burbank last year, Wonder Woman received her own seven and a half foot tall. Yes, mommy bronze statue. Yes, mommy. I will go there and I will leave my mark. My studio tour Hollywood. So you're have to leave. You're going to step away from the bronze statue. Put your pants on and step away from one. One would assume the man of steel would be next to complete the DC Trinity.

But that's not the case, as already explained. DC's Green Lantern Corps member, John Stewart, stands as a symbol of willpower and keeper of the law and order for visitors and residents of Burbank as a seven and a half foot tall bronze statue. And it was unveiled recently at a ceremony at Empire Center's Hangar 28, which is weird because that's my favorite number in Burbank. So John Stewart represents an important milestone in DC history as our first modern black costume superhero.

Debuting in Green Lantern, 87, published October of 71, said DC chief creative officer Jim Lee. Love that guy who hates me. For writer Dennis O'Neill, and artist Neil Adams to create a character like Jon Stewart was nothing short of visionary as it broke a lot of the usual conventions when it came to the superheroes, or two superheroes, excuse me, including his being one of the few to not wear a mask in his role as Green Lantern to hide who he is. He's Jon Stewart, period.

That's that's actually really interesting, Aaron. I'm just hearing Jim Lee talk about that really quickly. He is the only Green Lantern doesn't have an eye cowl, right? Like how Jordan has one. I guess Guy Gardner doesn't have one in the in like the newer series, but he did at one point. And yeah, it's interesting, you know, and we sort of talked about this a couple of weeks ago about how we had Rebel Ridges starring actor Aaron. Tell me his name again. Aaron Pierce, think was Aaron Pierce.

Aaron Pierce has recently been cast as Jon Stewart and James Gunn and Peter Saffron's DCU and people had some issues with it. Again, we won't really rehash that because it's sort of silly from Aaron and I's perspective. But no, I think that's super cool. think it's honestly I think it was probably a bold and intentional choice not to just, you know, put Superman up there next. So I'm glad because I mean, to be honest, not a lot of superheroes have their own towns.

Metropolis, is I think is Illinois. want to say. Yep. And so in there. Yep. And so just an interesting, interesting thought there. But again, the statue looks amazing. I'm excited for it. And yeah. Did you see the unveiling? Did you see how Jim Lee struggled to get the curtain off of the statue itself? It was really funny. No comment. Jim Lee is a short man, everybody, but he's also a very talented man. So. All right, I'll do it for our news and notes everybody.

Let's go ahead and get into our main topic, which of course is reviewing the penguin. Let's go and get over there right now.

Alrighty, here we are talking about the penguin again. Spoilers ahead. We're going to talk about this entire series front to back, side to side, the whole business. Aaron, initial thoughts on the penguin. They're to tell stories about us one day, kid. We're going to roll the whole damn city, Vic. I am still in awe of everything that occurred during this show. goddamn Colin Farrell, man.

Colin like it's Colin Farrell in this Colin Farrell like it's honestly every like so many people in this show just Crushed every scene that they were in and it's so good I am so like I am this this might be my favorite show of the year of I don't know the last few years It's so good. It's so good. Yeah, this is a prime example everybody of when Aaron and I you hear us ranting terribly about how bad something is on the show, specifically superhero related material.

We're often mad because this is the benchmark right here. This show represents the best version of what this genre, if you want to call it that, this sub genre of film, television, what have you. The Penguin is like elevated superhero-isms. know, like this show just adds context to a character that was already super interesting in the Batman. Go back, Aaron, try to remember you and I, went to go see the Batman together. I came and visited you in Tennessee. We had a great time with it.

Remember whenever we first saw the Batmobile, was euphoric. We both came at the same time. And remember, at least I was thinking this. I think you were thinking this at the same time. The penguin, anytime you showed up on screen, just, Colin Farrell just took it over. Right? He's like, you're right, sweetheart. Am I the only person here that knows between law and hell?

Like this, this guy, again, like you just sort of mentioned a moment ago, he just sort of melts into this new person when he becomes Oswald Cobblepot or Oz, Oz Cobb, as he's shown in this movie or show, excuse me. It's, incredible. As Aaron said, I absolutely love it. think again, as you said, one of my favorite shows of the year, it's honestly between this house, the dragon season two, ironically, another HBO series. They've been absolutely killing it.

We've got dune prophecy right around the corner too. Could be another incredible show from them. Talk about a studio that is often in flux and often stepping its own way on its own tail and just consistently putting out banger after banger. How do they do it? It's been honestly, it's been a long time since they've had so many like they were relying for for quite a while on these like on these certain IPs that were just, you know, you know, I guess universally renowned.

I mean, like your sex in the cities and things like that. And it was just like. They had a lead on them and it had been a long time and now they're doing some phenomenal work, some really phenomenal. They got some great teams here and I'm so excited for what, you know, like HBO for a while. It was like, do I really need this? Do I really need the streaming app? And now it's like, fucking want it, man. I think, I think Max might be my favorite streaming service.

And I've been someone, Aaron, I famously have sort of purged a lot of my streaming services. I got rid of Netflix. I got rid of Amazon Prime. I got rid of Hulu, course, Disney Plus is on the chopping block, to be honest. But Max has been one. It's like Max and Peacock are two that I have honestly not once thought of getting rid of, because I think they just consistently put out hits. Peacock is the home of the office and parks and rec, so I have to keep it.

But Max is often putting out not only good television series like The Penguin, House the Dragon, the franchise, which is really good as well. They also have like a good catalog of movies as well. So I'm curious really quick, though. How did you watch this? Did you watch it weekly? Did you purge it all at once? What was sort of your way of going about this? I watched a few episodes at a time. I didn't purge it all at once or binge it. Excuse me.

For instance, you know, I got back yesterday and I'd only watched up to season four or episode, excuse me, episode four. And so I think we watched like three episodes last night. And then this morning we watched the final one and it was, yeah, I'm glad I kind of left. like episode seven to kind of stew and then wake up to watch episode eight and yeah, I'm, I'm still unpacking. I'm still unpacking episode eight cause that was a wild ride, but there's, and we'll get, we'll get into that why.

And maybe you can help me kind of sift through the, the, the, the wreckage of, I'm not, know, not to give too many spoilers, the records of episode seven. we're going to spoil it. let's unpack it all. That's right. Well, I will say just sort of before we get into everything here, the Penguin is one of those series that I could definitely see a season two for. I think at some point this character is too interesting to not get like a second season.

I really not to spoil like our rating going forward, but I think hopefully we see something more from this character. I would like a season two, but at the same time, even if they just like focused like refocus on a different villain or character and then had and then like started bringing them in and almost start almost doing like a rogue's gallery.

Yeah, build up, you know, like kind of what we've wanted to see in some of these like Spider-Man from the Sinister six and some of these other universes kind of really giving us what we wanted. But the Rose Gallery of the Gotham, you know, underbelly. I actually like that idea a lot more. I think you're so right.

Like what if an after every Batman movie we focus on one sub character of that previous movie and sort of deep dive into why they're important to the overall story and to Gotham as a whole. Yeah. All right. Well, here's the synopsis for the Penguin, of course.

If you're listening to this, probably have already watched the series, but in November of twenty twenty two, one week after the assassination of Carmine Falcone and the destruction of Gotham City's seawall, the Penguin picks up as Oswald Oz Cobb attempts to take over the crime underworld of Gotham City. Now, the Batman director, Matt Reeves and executive producer Dylan Clark are also executive producers on this series.

HBO and Warner Brothers initially began development on another spinoff series focused on Gotham City's police department, otherwise known as the G.C.P.D. But by early March, twenty, twenty two, when HBO was bought by Discovery, the series had been put on indefinite hold. So I think certain elements of that series that was also being developed by Matt Reeves was sort of incorporated into this series as well. I think there's certain parts of the series that make that pretty evident.

And then speaking of Reeves, he had the penguins name. And I sort of touched on this earlier as a name changed from Oswald Cobblepot from the comics to Oswald or Oz Cobb to make the character seem more grounded and realistic. Do you like that change, Aaron? Not really. Me neither. To be honest, I don't think that that was a necessary change because I mean, whether people called him Oz or Cobb for short, think it was like Cobblepot, which is it's just a name.

know, it's sort of synonymous with the character too. It also, mean, yeah, but also doesn't have any impact on who he is in this universe. Like it doesn't have any, it doesn't hold weight. Like if you know anything about the, know, any other... Batman franchise world, you know that the Cobble pots were like another infamous, like wealthy family in Gotham and in its history, like leading back a long time. But honestly, like that's just something that that you'd have to dig into.

And I didn't think it was a necessary change. Yeah, I think sometimes these small changes don't really mean much for the story or it maybe even enhances the story. Like, for instance, his lean has walked in the series. What a great fucking explanation for why he leans when he'd walk. He looks like a penguin, everybody. It looks awesome. He walks exactly. It was so it really reminded me. And this is one of the small redeeming factors of the first of the actual the Suicide Squad. Mm hmm.

Where you're talking about James Gunn's Suicide Squad. No, the it was that so suit was it's the Suicide Squad was James Gunn's Suicide Squad was David Error. Yeah. Is David. Yeah. So Suicide Squad with Killer Croc and him having that like sway, that crocodilian sway, you know? Like it was one of the many, not many, one of the few redeeming moments where it just was so well done. I love that about that killer croc in that show, because he just had that sway to him.

The same way like a crocodile, if you ever watch a crocodile swim in the swamp, it just kind of like curves its way through the water. That was the same way that Colin Farrell did this walk, and it was just so fucking... Well done. Right. And I actually went back and watched the Batman here recently and you don't really, it's weird. It's weird to say this, everybody. You don't really see Oz walk in that show very much, if at all.

Like I think at one point he walked out of Carmine Falcone's like pool room, but you don't really get to see his movement. So it was a cool touch. And I think to see them sort of integrate that into future Batman installments, whether that be movies or series, I think again, it just, it's a small thing that explains his like, Penguin esque moves like why do they call him the penguin? Right? Well, I would imagine it's probably that walk.

I will the walk also and the way that I looked at him and one thing we didn't get an explanation of at all during the show was like his scars on his face because if you look at his face, his nose is almost beak like but also if you look at the way that his the scarring was on his face, it kind of went almost like in a beak quality also kind of so sure. all that together gave him almost this like beak like quality to his face with everything.

So he did, he had the walk and he had the scars and his nose. So it all kind of again, formed this like penguin-esque like mannerism. Yeah. Especially when he smiles, he definitely looks like a bird. Yeah. Aaron, why don't you get into the next phase of the DC, I would say the DC universe, the DC studios part of this world, essentially what this world is eventually going to sort of go on to.

Yeah. So after James Gunn and Peter Safran became the co-CEOs of DC studios in 2022 November future project for Reeves the Batman shared universe were set to be overseen by that same studio. So when announcing the first projects the DC universe or DCU in January of 2023 Gunn said any project that did not fit into the DCU shared universe would be labeled as DC else worlds, which I actually really like moving forward. So Reeves Batman shared universe is set to be a part of this else world labels.

Now, from what I understand. Even the Joker movies are else world. Yeah, and I would be surprised if they're still in the same Same else world like maybe it's just a different maybe there's multiple else worlds And this is you know, because I don't see a connection between those but even though some people have kind of like Like kind of created their own like fan connections.

Yeah, so yeah They definitely don't take place in the same world because the Joker takes place in like this world with this weird 1970s Gotham whereas The Gotham that we're seeing in modern day, like especially if you watch the Batman and even just like I said in the synopsis, it's said in the synopsis of the show. This takes place in November of twenty twenty two. I like the idea of sort of mashing them together and seeing the similarities. But in reality, these are two very different worlds.

And to be honest, after watching the new Joker, I'm so glad that they are. Yeah. Well, the thought was like that this was like the Joker is almost a prequel. sure. OK. So like, again, yeah. If you've seen the end of the Joker, you know that Joaquin Phoenix's Joker is not the Joker. He is. like maybe an inspiration for the eventual Joker. Sorry, spoilers for everybody. If you haven't seen Folly, I do. It is terrible. Okay. It's not good. Don't watch it. Just let me spoil it for you.

We got a show runner here. Lauren Lefrock, Lefrak. Is that how say that? Aaron Lefrank, Lefrank, Lefrank, Lauren Lefrank. She was the writer and the show runner for Chuck and agents of shield. Aaron, you're a fan of agents of shield, correct? Yeah. I'm a fan of both of those, which this is this show is. a true evolution and like from that it's sure I would not have I would never have I would never have expected this show to come from the same person who was the showrunner for those. Yeah, never.

You know, I've only seen small bits of ages of the shield and I have not seen any of Chuck. But as you said, the series is I say this respectfully and I don't want to denigrate Lauren's and you know, her running of this series because this is totally her baby. But it just feels like it's so. easily integrates into Matt Reeves vision of what this Batman world is, right?

Like, obviously he was an executive producer, but like we've seen, you know, different interpretations of the same universe and they looked wildly different. I feel like this just so seamlessly. And I think that's part of the charm too, is that this series is so believably in that same universe of 2022's Matt Reeves Batman. honestly feels like just a genuine continuation of the Batman. minus him not being in the series. mean, we'll talk about it. Let's go over the cast real quick.

Yeah. Colin Farrell as Oswald, Oz Cobb, not Cobblepot Cobb, the Penguin. right. Kristen Miliotti as Sophia Gigante or Falcone. That was so silly. Anyways, Renzi Feliz as Victor, Vic Aguilar, Deirdre O'Connell as Francis Cobb, Clancy Brown. Okay, we got to talk about this once I'm finished with the rest of the cast. The whole Salvatore, no, I'm sorry, not Salvatore Moroni, the Carmine Falcone. So Clancy Brown is Salvatore Moroni, getting ahead of myself. Theo Rossi as Dr. Julian Rush.

Michael Kellyanne as Johnny Viti. Johnny Viti! Mark Strong as Carmine Falcone and Michael Ziegen as Alberto Falcone. We'll talk about this. I'm just going to read this and then we can go into the little bit of notes that's here. But Peter McDonald reprises his role from the Batman as the GCPD. Detective William Kenzie. His voice. It's something man. Like I thought it when we watched the Batman. He's like, I can't even like I can't even redo it. You got a lot of nerve.

You got a lot of nerve coming in here. It's a bit suspicious. Everyone dying. You're going to tie yourself to the psychopath Gordon. Have you seen my have you seen my inhaler? He's a very welcome addition to the series, but it's just interesting. And I think it really ties into the sort of gritty and dark Batman world. Yeah, it does. So here's here's where I was. that you had a problem with. Yeah. Well, I didn't necessarily have a problem with it.

just it was such the one thing that like pulled me out of the universe. Sure. And it back into my body was John Turturro could not reprise his role as Carmine Falcone due to scheduling conflicts. So Mark Strong replaced him. It's just not the same. Agreed. God, rewatching the Batman like, I mean, John Turturro is so great. You know, nobody folks with the Jesus, right? And he is so great. is so great as Carmine Falcon.

And to see Mark Strong, is, who has been in many DC projects, we'll talk about here in just a moment. It was like, man, why is Sinestro here? Like we had, we had a good one. in the previous movie. I don't know. And he's in such a small part of the series that I just don't know how they couldn't have made it work. And of course, I'm speaking very ignorantly as someone who doesn't know what it's like to produce like a high production television series, but it couldn't get him on set for a day.

Like he's in this show for one episode. Yeah. I don't know. That seems wild to me. Like phone it in, man. Just phone it in. Get him on a Zoom call or something. Goddamn fucking some tips from Gal Gadot. Yeah, okay, cuz you know, she just does she'll just like film a scene in her backyard and then they'll exactly she's got her own Green room like just green screens all over the place. Yeah, that was again. That was the one thing cuz I always think of John Turturro from Transformers.

yeah, his pants are always off. I don't know. They're always not wearing pants But I did I didn't even I didn't even think about nobody fucks did Jesus yeah, they live in pickle baski. Yeah, I didn't even think about that one, but So, Colin Farrell fought hard to have his version of the Penguin smoke tobacco in the Batman was overruled for his own series. However, the character is depicted as an occasional tobacco user with a preference for cigars.

The series marks the live-action debut of Summer Gleason. The character was introduced in Batman the Animated Series and was created as a stand-in for Batman's love interest, Vicky Vale. We also get our third live-action adaptation of Magpie in episode four. You familiar with Magpie, Aaron? I am not at all. knew it was like an important thing, but I honestly had no like really like no real understanding. Yeah, she's been getting a lot of play recently. She's been in Gotham.

She was in a Birds of Prey series. Like a lot of times she's like a really easy. Let's put a deep cut character here, right? Yeah. And Magpie essentially it's just doesn't really have any superpowers, at least not in the interpretations that I've seen her in where she's just basically like. Catwoman that puts a magpie statue when she still stuff. It's like pretty basic cable stuff and she's just a little crazy as she is in the TV series.

And I thought it was a cool addition to just throw in like a kind of a small deal. Sort of like a C list respectfully, I say C list Batman villain in there with with Sophia in prison. So let's see here. We've got this is Mark Strong's third DC role. He was playing again, as we said earlier, he has played Sinestro in 2011's Green Lantern. a true benchmark in live action superhero movies. loved him as Sinestro and he is like the tease at the end.

Green Lantern is such a fucking weird movie because I feel like there are certain parts of that movie that make so much sense, are so accurate. They look great. Like they could have easily moved on and done something else with this. and then like in very much bigger obvious ways is absolutely terrible. Doesn't work is like a total Frankenstein of a movie because of studio involvement and what have you. But Mark Strong was like a true highlight of that movie.

And to see him get his yellow ring at the end of that in the post credit scene was like, damn it. This is what they took from us. Like we could have had this. Not just that, but. Well, he's also Dr. Savant in the David F. Sandberg Shazam films. Now, sort of a dumb villain in the first one. I don't know why they chose Savant as the first villain. pretty much a nothing burger in the second one. I think he's he's in the post credit scene. That's about it. Like he's he's really barely used.

And yeah, just really terrible. To be honest, I liked him in that role. I like him all the time in his roles. He's such sure he's one of those guys that just has this presence that can take any scene and like really just like steal the whole thing. I think he he must be married to someone within Warner Brothers because he's about to show up in the Doom Prophecy series as well. So we're to see him again here soon. All right. That's right. All right. So here we go. This is Clancy Brown's 19th.

Aaron, 19th DC Comics role in the history of his career. Yes. Yeah. And I'm going to list them all here for you. Don't worry. I'm going to I have them all here for you right now. Do it. So he was Lex Luthor in multiple DC animated series, movies and video games. I think that's what he's most known for. He's pretty widely known. he was also, Lex Luthor in Superman, last son of Krypton in 1996 and in Lego DC super villains in 2018. He was sheriff Morgan in the Zeta project.

He was Wally West slash the slash the flash flash slash vice president slash guardian of Oa in justice league unlimited. So he played multiple roles in just like limited. He was Mr. Freeze and the Batman. This is an animated movie in 2004. He was raw tool slash a mugger slash per Degaton in Batman, the brave and the bold 2008. You ever watched Brave and the Bold? Still have not. Pretty good. Pretty good. Pretty good. Not great. Aaron, did you ever watch Beware the Batman?

Beware the Batman. Beware the Batman. Short lived, like 3D animated. We're talking like what was that 3D animated show from like the late 90s where they're like in a computer reboot? Looks like that, but better. Is that the Batman? yeah. Yeah. Magpie also shows up in that show as well. It's good. I like it a lot more than Brave and the Bold, but Brave and the Bold is good. I don't like what they did with the Joker. looks he's like a weird monkey man.

Anyway, we've got King Fadara Fadare slash fire breather and just young justice. Excuse me. Young Justice. Also a great series. Parallax. Speaking of Green Lantern in 2011, he was parallax. Terrible. Fucking terrible, everybody. He's hard talk in Green Lantern, the animated series. He was negative man slash General Immortus and Dr. Excuse me, in Doom Patrol. He was a gorilla, a gorilla rod in Robot Chicken DC.

comic special number two villains in paradise or 2014 and he was general Wade Elling Elling and Eiling in the flash. So a lot. He's done a lot of everybody. Jesus. You know, he I don't understand why he never voiced killer croc. Well, he's got that voice. He could really honestly do a lot in the DC universe or just in comics in general. And I have a question for you really quick before we move on to the next one here. I'm not taking questions at the moment, but I will make an exception for you.

thank you. Thank you. Where is Batman in this series? no, no, no. I you didn't think I was going that way. I did. It was nice to switch up. Well, according to show developer Lauren LeFranc, I understand why people's desire would be to have Batman or to think that unless Batman's in a show or a film, then it doesn't have the same punch. To me, I think it packs a different punch.

Matt's films are through the lens of Batman, so when you're high up looking down on the city, it's a different perspective. With Oz, you're in the city streets. You're in the grit and the muck and the grime. He's looking up, wanting to claw his way to the top. Matt Reeves reportedly adamant about keeping Robert Pattinson's Batman at a distance from the series in hopes that it would give people a chance to get to know Oz without the inclusion of the caped crusader, which I both love. and hate.

No, let me take that back. Let me. I love that. I don't hate it. I there's always this I think and I think and I kind of hate when studios give us like they give us everything we think we want all the time. Sure. Because we may want to see Batman because we fucking love. I loved Robert Pattinson as the Batman. Sure. I really did. He's an amazing Batman. But we didn't need him in this. This show stands on its own. Two little bird legs, you know, a half feet, one and a half feet.

You know, you call me up. Don't call me for you. Call me. Don't call me that. You know, it's like it does so well on its own. And I really truly appreciate it actually not having them like shoehorn any kind of. You know, unnecessary characters into this, no unnecessary love story into this, no unnecessary bullshit. was really good. Yeah, I tend to agree. I think it's sort of our lizard brain.

want to see Robert Pattinson at some point, if it is just maybe like him showing up at like a jail cell or something like if he had like visited Sophia in prison or if he had like swooped through the city at the very end or something, I don't know. Like, yeah, sure. Like you asked me and I'll probably tell you that it would have been nice to see Robert Pattinson's Batman. But I tend to agree with you that I'm glad that they didn't do that.

And, know, in the end of all this, because this was the show is about Oz and about like him as as Lauren has said here. his sort of rise to the top. And with Batman there, I think it just, takes the character of Oz down a peg or two, because even in re-watching the Batman, anytime that Robert Patton says Batman and Colin Farrell's the Penguin, it is just so not a match physically.

Like they are just so far and away on different, like at one point in the club when in the iceberg lounge, Batman very casually just throws Oz into this like, Sheet glass, you know, and then like obviously the chase down in the Batmobile like Batman is so far and away physically Like on top of the penguin, but this is showing you what Oz can do from the inside He's gonna fester from the end through the veins of Gotham But I

love also that they gave him such strength as well Because he wasn't just like this like whenever you see the penguin you see him as this kind of like meek kind of small like, you small statured character. Sort of round and he's round. He's pudgy. He's like short. He's not very fast. Whereas like in this, like the dead bodies, he's picking up his mom. He's picking up dead bodies. He's like, you know, he's holding his own and in these gun battles.

Yeah. And I, I, and I think that again, introduced it. So here's, here's kind of like where my mind went to in this comparison, HBO, I want to say the max they had the, halo series, right? No, that was paramount. Paramount Plus had the Halo series. And the cool thing about the Master Chief is that he is a character that is not defined necessarily by his physical presence as a human. Because his physical presence is so much more than he's like eight feet tall without his suit.

He's massive, he's got a presence, and a lot of people don't even think that he's human. And he doesn't need an identity. of a human face to really make him a believable character. His presence alone is what makes him that hero. And in the Paramount Plus show, like multiple times, he's like barely in his suit, he's always walking around with no helmet on. And that's one of the things that was horrible about the show.

And I feel like putting the Batman in the penguin is like, it's taking off his helmet and having to like put something else in there. just to justify this character and make him seem like more than what he is because that character cannot stand on his own without that aspect of that universe. Not true. So good without having to rely on the presence of this one staple character in this city that that hold that kind of holds it all together because we didn't need to hold it together.

We needed to see the struggle of what Oz in the city was going through. Yeah. Oz is a living, breathing power in this world or I guess in the city specifically and Gotham is in the best Batman stories is a living breathing character within itself. And in order to flesh out Gotham as a living breathing entity, you have to populate it with interesting characters.

And if the only interesting characters in this city, this giant metropolitan city that's supposed to be on the same level as like a New York, if the only three interesting characters are Gordon, Selena Kyle, and Batman, then this is not an interesting world. So you got to. make people like the Riddler. You gotta make people like Oz. And not even just Oz.

We haven't really even talked about Sophia, who is also maybe one of the better villains in superhero history on her own, just based on her complexity and what she had to go through to get to where she is. Let's go ahead and get into, again, let's talk about Sophia here. We're getting a little long-winded, huh? Yeah. I mean, we sort of naturally progressed here, but at the end of this series, we'll talk about sort of the ending here. Unless, Aaron, is there anything?

Are there any particular episodes? Is there any particular parts that you want to talk about with this series that we haven't covered yet that you want to speak on before we sort of get into the more defining parts of the finale and like the end part of the series? I think, you know, there's only eight episodes. And so like I just want to go through, like you said, like a couple of them really quickly and just kind of like honestly, like the first one, the first one I knew by the end of it.

The opening scene is incredible. The opening scene is incredible. the just the show itself, like the entire first episode has you hooked. And that's like right at the end, there's this moment between Vic and Oz where they're just sitting there and they're talking about this, what was it? a burrito? And he's just like, it's not fucking good. That's fucking great. And it's like these small moments that he has.

And it's crazy because throughout the show, there's just these moments like there's these simple fucking moments where like, Like Oz is this guy that wants to hold the power of the city in his hands, but at the same time he can sit there and talk one-on-one about like, like I said, extra pickles. They gave me two pickles. You know, what is, what's normal for pickles?

One, you know, it's like he's small like moments that like he is able to kind of, again, what's the word he's able to kind of like go from just being this guy who lives in the moment to just dreaming of conquering the world. Oz is, the prototypical Webster dictionary version of a glad hand.

He can come down to anyone's level, whether you're Vic or you're Salvatore Moroni, and he can like meet you where you're at and just take like a half step, not to make a pun on his legs, like a half step ahead of you and like, meet you on like, he can analyze you and know what you want and what your biggest fear is in like a set and like a 30 second conversation. I mean, he knows how to manipulate people really well.

And I think what's maybe one of the more interesting highlights of this series, because I think it's really interesting and sort of easy for when a character gets a series of their own, especially when it comes like superhero series is to paint the main character as sort of like an antagonist, someone that we can root for. And I think this series goes against the grain in that by the fact that he is willing to do whatever, literally whatever to get on top. He will fuck over his mom.

He will kill his siblings. He will fuck over every crime boss in the city. He will kill Vic. Maybe we don't know if he's dead or not, but like he will. He'll He'll fucking dead. He will screw over whoever to get to the top. And that and I think I can't. I think it was maybe Matt Reeves is doing an interview. He's like, if you root for Oz at the end of the series, you're not paying attention. This guy is a bad dude. Right. There's no one to root for in this series.

Nobody. Not Sophia, not Oz, not anybody. You kind of, kind of wanted to root for Vic. I was excited. Like he was kind of like finding his way. but that was another thing. Like, and you said it yourself, like, yes, I'm going to point it out. Like there's that moment in the end of the first episode where Oz and Vic are having this moment just over this small meal.

And then the final episode that, you know, I'll talk about that in a second, like where, Oz, you know, kills Vic, but are we sure that he's dead though? I mean, we see the body laying there. I guess the old adage of like, isn't there not dead unless you see a body, but He did just choke him out. Like I feel like if I was like choke you out, I don't think he would die. I'm just going to say because it's symbolic that he killed him.

Sure. I mean, they could easily bring him back, but they could also say that he killed him. Like it's one of those very ambiguous things. Yes. But in episode three, which is titled Bliss, which is when they start selling bliss in the club. And there's this moment where like Vic is trying to decide and he's trying to tell Oz. He's like, I want to go leave with my girlfriend. who I really care about and have this new life and not be like, I'm not this person, this is not my life.

And Oz and Vic have this like moment in the stall or in the bathroom at the club, not the stall, but the bathroom itself. And Oz is, it's just like you said, he's able to like sum up somebody in a split second and tell them exactly what they need to be on his side and to be in his corner.

And he does this just that, but he does it in such a powerful way that he's almost... pouring his soul into this moment so genuinely, at least you think it's genuine, to inspire them to follow him to the ends of fucking earth. And to him, to inspire that is what, you know, motivates him to go even further and farther and faster and harder.

like, again, to pour that much into a person and then just days later, Realized that he's gotten too close to you and he's become a liability to just murder him right there even though and that's the thing He did it out of love.

Yeah, he literally murdered murders him because he realized yes I fucking love you you are my family But I can't have any more family because that's just that is a week that is a weakness you and me That's all that's left I Don't believe in kismet or nothing Good to be met. Yeah? Yeah. You see me at my lowest or I shoot my mom. You been there. By my side every step. Listen, kid. I, I can't bring you with me this time. What do mean? I mean, that's the thing about family. Oz? It's your strength.

Oz, what are you... I mean, it drives you. Fuck, if it don't make you weak, too. I can't have that no more. I can't have that shit. It's too much. Too fucking much! I'm You're good man, Vic. You got a good heart. And it's like, holy fuck, holy shit.

then let's, mean, we haven't even talked about Sofia, who is Sofia Falcone, who becomes, who goes to Arkham for what was supposed to be six months by the Falcone family, gets out 10 years later, is completely fucked in the head because she just basically had to accept this world that she was gonna be stuck in for however long. She just is like skipping through the house and she's wearing this gas mask having killed her entire family.

was, reminded me very much of the, the scene from the original, Batman film where, or Batman, you know, the film where, you know, Joker's like going through the, the, museum and after he's gassed everybody in there. Yeah, to print. yeah. Can we, can we say that Carmine Falcone may be the best jeans in Gotham? I mean, between helping create not only Sophia, but also Selena Kyle. Yeah. My goodness. What's up with this guy? Like too bad he's dead. He can't make more incredibly beautiful people.

Somebody call somebody call a fucking Victor freeze. Cause we needed to freeze some eggs or some, some sperm. I want to, I want to kind of go back a little bit because I think there's a pretty interesting correlation between Sophia and Oz and the fact that they are both master manipulators. And I think The greatest way to manipulate someone is to inspire them. As you said a moment ago, an inspiration is to sort of get people to believe what you want them to believe.

And Sophia and Oz do that both in very similar ways, but in like a different approach. I think when people are inspired by Oz, it's to gain something. They've seen the Oz, this person who for all intents and purposes should have been dead years ago based on the amount of shit that he's gotten into. is still alive kicking. People see that and go, well, if this guy is still able to be in power, clearly I need to side with him.

And then knowing that he's probably gonna double cross you at some point. Like people know going into these situations that Oz is going to betray them at some point and they still do it. Like that's the type of power you can't buy. have to, like that type of manipulation cannot be taught, right? And then Sophia, similar way. Like they side with her because they see that she's been mistreated by her family her entire life. She's obviously beautiful as well.

I'm sure that doesn't hurt, but she has this way about her that she will tell you what you need to hear in the moment. She's like a ultimate strategist. Throughout this series, see multiple times she like sets someone up for one thing and then the last second flips it and does the opposite and like gains the power that way. See, I disagree. No. Okay. I disagree. And I say that because I feel like the story here for, they're almost a parallel story with different outcomes.

Because you have two people that grew up with different like knees on their neck. Whether it was society or whether it was the weight of the family on their neck, the responsibility. And both were put in situations where life was so fucking hard that they're just damaged and they're broken and it really gave them each a choice. You had one that could really accept the world around them and move through it in a way that would lift them up or one that would just like, not like Sophia.

Like Oz accepted it. He accepted his situation, his circumstances and realized that that was his true power. Sophia could not accept it. It broke her and she came in and thought that the only way to fix this was with power. Yeah, destroy it. To destroy it. So Oz wanted to build something with, you know, and to develop something that he never had. Sophia came from power, lost it, was like was struggling under the weight of everything, came in and just like had to take the power.

But honestly, didn't really want it. Didn't really need it. She like in order to gain power, she had to like destroy the previous power. Exactly. She came in with with this desire to to to break down everything that had already been previously built. when she realized that it was just not like she was already back and she was just again, repeating the cycle of what other families had done. She realized that these are my circumstances. I can't handle it.

So I'm going to destroy it and leave where Oz is like, these are my circumstances. I'm going to accept it and I'm going to fucking rule. Yeah. Well, you know, again, we sort of were talking about this a minute ago. I want to get back to it here. While in Arkham, Sophia receives a letter from Selena Kyle claiming to be her half sister. at what point in the series did you make that connection? Did you make it right there in that moment in that scene?

Or did you remember that Carmine Falcone, of course, was the father of Selena Kyle, of course, Sophia? Like, I don't know why that didn't compute in my head until that scene, but I didn't realize it until the very end. I think, again, it speaks to the world building. You know, we were so ingrained into what was going on in the screen right in front of us. and how it was just so amazingly built that we didn't really think about the external events that had already happened.

And I think that speaks very well to the showrunner and to the team, the creative team behind this is, now we're like, holy fuck, now it really is bigger than this. It's going to continue to grow. And I think that that's amazing. Because to be honest, again, they could have done some simple dumb shit and thrown in, like we could have seen. Honestly, I was thinking that when... she was walking through Arkham, I thought we were going to see maybe the Joker.

I thought maybe we'd see somebody in there that we recognize, but we didn't. I mean, yeah, you saw the magpie, but that's all. And it's like, okay, cool. Like maybe a must opportunity, but no, no, it was good because it was still a world. You know, I'll say this, the Dr. Rush, not a fan of him in this show. I'm so happy that you brought him up. Can I? ask you something here that I've been seeing a lot on social media.

And I don't know if I necessarily love this fan theory, but it sort of has a little bit, has some legs to it. I'll say that. Apparently in the last, one of the last scenes of the series, we see, of course, Theo Rossi's Julian Rush. see his office and you know, throughout the series, he's playing with these red lights to sort of hypnotize folks. And on his office desk, you see what looks like the scarecrow's masks, his mask and the claw like the claws that he often will wear.

So people are theorizing that Julian Rush could eventually become the scarecrow in this universe. Basically manufacturing his scare toxins with the blit the new bliss because they often have I guess they have similar attributes. What are your thoughts on that? Would that add any context to Julian Rush's character in this series? Because I thought like you said, kind of a nothing burger in this series. Yeah, I kept the only thing I kept seeing from him was I kept seeing shades from Luke Cage.

I just kept thinking of him. He's such a pussy and sons of anarchy. So I was like, I don't like this guy. Yeah, I did. But to be honest, thought I was kind of thinking there's a scene where Sophia and him, I'm assuming they had sex because he's like almost naked. She's looking for that. Yeah. He's got some scratches on his chest. I was almost thinking that he might like eventually turn into like Zaz.

like Victor's ass because he had like, you know, she scratched him enough and maybe that was his like body count. Like she was like doing to him and kind of marking him up because that she, know, that maybe that was something that he gleaned from her from loving her or even like maybe his, his name wasn't actually rush and he was going to be like Dr. Strange or something from sorry. You mean Hugo Strange? Yeah. Hugo Strange. He's Dr. Strange.

He is technically Dr. Strange, but it's confusing Aaron to call it Dr. Strange. Sorry. Sorry. Dr. Hugo Strange of Arkham, not doctors, you know, That's strange. It's doctor, doctor. That's yeah. Anyways. so that's, you know, I, I, I wasn't necessarily the happiest with him in this role, but like I said, I mean, if there's something to it, cool. I mean, I could see that. I mean, there's obviously a lot going on in Arkham.

I was kind of, yeah, there's just, mean, it would be a cool, it would be a cool zig where we're like, we're all expecting a cool zig where there was a Zazz. But yeah, and you know, speaking on sort of the again, the ever present, which which rogue are we going to see next? Aaron, why don't you go into what I think this fan theory, I noticed it during the finale. I know we talked a little bit before the recording here.

Not something that you notice immediately, but talk about where we might be heading in this universe. OK, so Oz's last minute master plan defeats of Sophia Gigante. Gigante. Gigante. Gigante, posse. In the series, finale involves finale involves his improvised connection to a Gotham politician, Councilman Sebastian Haiti, whom Oz previously manipulated to restore Crown points electricity. That was a total win.

When Oz enters Gotham town hall to talk with Haiti, the curtains hung along the chambers in the courtroom created create a clear owl shape. And it's totally I didn't even notice that at first because to me, I thought it was a kitty cat. The image of multiple owl silhouettes, silhouettes scattered.

around the courtroom seems like a subtle but crystal clear hint at the Court of Owls introduction in a future Batman film series, which I could absolutely see and love in this kind of like darker underbelly undertone. Yeah, they totally set up in the first movie too, right? Like the entire plan of the Riddler is the fact that there was this small, there was this underground coup of multiple high powered people within Gotham to get Thomas Wayne in power.

And then when it didn't work and when Martha sort of went off the rails, Thomas had one of the news people killed and that's what eventually, well, they theorize that that's what eventually got Thomas killed. Thomas and Martha, I guess, together. Of course, in Crime Alley, we all know the story. Everybody has been played out in every movie and television series that Batman's been involved in. Clutch your pearls. Clutch those gosh darn pearls.

So in the comics, the Court of Owls created by a good friend of the show, Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo have influence and also, I'm just gonna say this, one of Chris's favorite I'll talk about why this story arc is so important to me after we get on with this part. know, the court of owls have influenced Gotham's politics from the shadows for ages and they have played a key role in almost all significant events in the city's history.

Instead of a single criminal with a plan to destroy Gotham, Batman has to deal with countless faceless enemies who cannot be defeated by sheer force. Yeah. So I think long time listeners of the show will know this. I'll just reiterate it here in case this is your first time listening for whatever reason.

But the court of owls is extremely important to me as a not only as a entity within comics, but also just an entity within my love of the medium back in, I would say like 2012, 2011, when I started getting into comics the way that I am now, because of course I've always loved superheroes. Like I was a fan of X-Men, the animated series and Spider-Man, the animated series.

And I read comics here and there when I was a kid, but I didn't begin reading comics and collecting comics the way that I do now until about right after high school. And the series that really got me into comics at that time was Greg Capullo and Scott Snyder's Court of Owls. That was the first book that I ever put on a quote unquote pull list. was the only, it was the book that got me into the comic shop every month.

Eventually that became, you know, the Nightwing series from the new 52 and so on and so forth. So the Court of Owls showing up in this universe is extremely exciting from my point of view. But I also think it, again, as we just spoke on it a moment ago, makes too much sense. Like we've never seen them in live action. At least I don't think we have. Have we seen them? Were they like they show up in like Gotham or something? I don't even really. yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think they might have honestly. But honestly, that doesn't really doesn't count in my book. That's all I say because Gotham. never watched it. I don't care to watch it. I'm contradicting myself a little bit here because I think any series that doesn't have Batman in it that is centered around Batman characters is sort of silly. I think Batman is directly involved with a lot of the creation of these villains and just characters in general.

That being said, course, Penguin, just talked about how much we love it and Batman doesn't show up once. So what am I talking about? But anyway, point being is that the Court of Owls, they are these like this festering group of folks who have just since the beginning of Gotham, like Aaron, have you ever read the Capullo, Snyder, Court of Owls, all that run? I have not. have.

I, I, the only thing I've really read with the Court of Owls in it, to be honest, is good friend of the show, Christian Ward's City of Madness, which incorporates, you know, this Talon and all those. Yeah. Talon and the court and you know, it's really interesting. So yeah. My brother, you have to eventually read it because it is awesome. So yeah, no, I highly recommend it. Aaron, you need to check it out. I have it in just I have in like four forms.

So if you ever want to just borrow it, I can definitely just give you one. But anyway, let's close out our conversation here about the Penguin. I think we've talked about this thing pretty in depth. Aaron, what are your final thoughts on the first spinoff of the Matt Reeves and Robert Pattinson, a Batman universe?

This was just something that really is welcome at a time like this, when a lot of shows, especially the ones that we've counted on for so long to be good, I am very much speaking to the MCU. they are not offering what we want, we have to find it somewhere else. And the DCU, if this is how they need to proceed with success in the DC universe, like this is where we got to go. And this is a perfect explanation example of what can be done amazingly.

What if Aaron in the next 10 years we see a resurgence, they always talk about superhero fatigue, which I don't believe in. think it's silly. think we have a quality fatigue. I think there are certain parts of the MCU that have sort of dipped in quality, unfortunately. And we're speaking of, you know, speaking with two people who love the MCU still, think to this day, both of us are going to go see the newest MCU film on day nine, on day one.

And we're going to watch the TV series eventually at some point, but What if in the next 10 years, the DC universe, cause we're to have Superman next year. Like what if DC is the next thing? What if that's what we sort of hitch our wagon to instead of, cause you know, during the MCU, that was terrible. Like the DC universe was in my opinion, pretty bad overall. There were a couple of decent entries, but overall it was mostly Marvel. Marvel was killing it. That's totally fine with me.

I mean, there's been several years where it's been nothing but Batman, Batman, the returns Batman forever, Batman or Robin. And, and I mean, it's all cyclical. You know, they're going to be great. They're going to hit some some road bumps. They're going to have to. Because again, that's a natural thing that that occurs in Hollywood. You know, they make a shit ton of money off of something that went really well. They dump a whole bunch of money into other ideas like that.

They end up like making too much money off of it. And then we wind up with land before time. Fourteen. One last question before we get out of this review. Are you excited about the James Gunn, Peter Safran, DCU? You're a fool if not. And I do have confidence because James Gunn.

Is he's a fan, you know, he he brings in the creators who actually give a shit about these titles and there and and and that right there is the difference between you know, the Hollywood, you know elites taking over and and and changing what's going in there and then you have Again, we just have these people in the industry who are who are crossing You know these boundaries into different mediums and affecting the quality of what's coming out. I guess my final thoughts are very similar to yours.

I think this is an incredible show. It's one of my favorites of the year. I think this is pretty much exactly what I wanted from a show like this. don't, I don't, have little to no complaints about it overall. I think we talked about a lot of them here on the show. All right. Sorry. Yeah. During this episode, I guess I'll say, but overall really loved it.

think anybody, if for some reason you listened to this before you watched it, I don't know why you would, but if you did go watch it for yourself, we didn't even talk about half of what we could have, honestly. So Go check this out if you haven't. I think this would be a fun thing to revisit. You know, a lot of times when we watch these shows, I don't really feel a need to go back and watch the I haven't watched many of the MCU TV series again. Right.

This would actually be a fun thing to go back to right before Batman Part Two comes out here in a couple of years. So, yeah, really loved it. Aaron, let's go and raise this bad boy out of five David A. Weiner's as we do, Aaron, David A. Weiner, documentary and filmmaker. Just talk to him a couple of weeks ago here on the show. about In Search of Darkness 93, 94. Dude. Great. Great guy. What are going to give the Penguin out of five David Weiner's Aaron? I'm going to give it a four point five.

me too. Air five. Wow. Four point five for the Penguin from both Aaron and I deservedly. So I think this is an incredible show, everybody. We don't need to tell you that everybody. If you've seen it, you know how good it is. That's a rarity for us to be exactly like the same. Usually it's like a point five difference. Yeah. Like one way or the other. Yeah. Yeah. Was there any part of you that thought? This is like at what point in the show did you decide it was a 4.5?

Did you ever think at one point it was going to be a five? I think it was a five until the final episode. And then it kind of went off a little bit of the rails on like, you know, with some of the stuff. I'm just like, yeah, I think there was just just again, very, very small things that brought me down that point five. But other than that, it was phenomenal. was exactly it was a palate cleanser from all the bullshit that we've gotten recently.

And definitely would watch it again, but definitely want to go back and watch the Batman before I go back and watch this again. Sure. All right. Everybody, that'll do it for our review of the Penguin. Let's get into my favorite segment here on the show. And that, course, is Aaron's Arcade.

It's time for Aaron's Arcade. Welcome to Aaron's Arcade. My few moments where I get to talk about the things that I and only I care about. Well, this is a little bit different this week because I got back from my trip and lo and behold, I had a gift waiting for me from some friends that we've recently made over at Comic Capsule. And if you haven't heard of Comic Capsule, Comic Capsule is a company that is making these really amazing... I'm going to call them like almost... What do you them?

Drop? They're like a showcase bag and board, right? Like what do call those when you drop the what do they call the sleeves like the big really thick sleeves that you drop your books into once they're in a sleeve, you drop them into remember like cards? Cards like a like a top loader. Top. Thank you. I couldn't think of as a drop loader. Top loader. Yeah. So these are basically like imagine a top loader that is meant to display beautifully. I put a bag and board in the capsule itself?

you absolutely OK, so you don't have to like take the comic out of the bag and board? Cool. Nope. you so you basically I'll just let you see this right here. There's a blue thing at the top. So some of them come clear. I ordered before I left. I ordered a whole set of clear ones and they're like, hey, you know, we know you love this product. So why don't we send you some of our new stuff that's coming out?

So they sent me two brand new versions of their comic capsules, which are they have a blue like blue backing, which is really pretty. And then they have a red version, which is really pretty as well. And again, you just kind of like push this back. kind of like ply, it's pliable. it like, you bend it back, you slide your book in there, bag, board, comic, everything included. It goes right in there and it just displays beautifully.

These two particular ones that they sent me are for Silver Age, which to be honest, I don't really have. many silver age so I need to go find something that I want to display these because I fucking love displaying my stuff in these comic castles and I find it to be the perfect I'm gonna say the perfect alternative to getting your stuff graded.

you want to keep it if you want to display it and it has a little hook in the back so you can hang it if you want to hang it up on the wall because again they come they come with black backing they come with clear backing they come with blue and red now which is brand new and they're just Like there's I'm just going to tell you I'm going to read the whole thing. Anti-UV resin, easy snap cover to keep comic books intact and accessible.

There's a label area, back hanger, stackable and just I don't know they're durable. You can drop them. They don't scratch very easily. But the other thing that they just sent me was kind of a brand new thing they just released. And here's the thing. I love buying wraparound covers. yeah. And what's really hard to find is clear backboards. And they just create, they just release their own version of they're called comic capes.

So you have your comic capsules and you have now you have your comic capes that they have. They have modern size now they have a Silver Age size now. So I'm just going to start using this stuff, man, because I have so many books that I just constantly want to display and take photos of and share on the internet. And this to me is a perfect way. And I love it. It's just a great product. Again, they sent me some a while back. And I was like, I got to support these guys.

If you're military, they have a military discount through GovX. they do, they're doing like a sale right now on for, for Black Friday. They did like a Veterans Day sale. They're amazing. So I'm going show you this right now. I just ordered Jim Lee's Virgin Covers and a Captain America one. Jim Lee's versions of the Absolute Superman and Absolute Wonder Woman. I'm going to slide in here and they're the foil version. So I love them.

And I'm going to put those in my comic capsules, grab some photos, maybe display those for a little while. But take some photos. We'll put them on our social media. Shout out to the comic capsule guys. Absolutely. It is just and Chris, I'll send you a couple as well. These are just like they're phenomenal, man. I highly I highly encourage supporting this company because they are very again, they support veterans with military discount, Veterans Day sales, all this. And they're just good dudes.

They even wrote me this like little this letter to go along with it saying, hey, we know we appreciate you. buying from us and appreciating our project or our product. You know, we know that you're a fan of it. So here test out some new stuff that we got going on and let us know what you think. love, we love all feedback. And I was like, that's just a genuine cool thing to do. Yeah, that's really cool. And you've actually, you've been bragging about them for far longer than this episode.

Like you've been talking about them for a bit. I'm happy to see that they recognize that. And again, like you said, we love supporting small businesses, especially when it has not only, not only when it's ran by really cool people. but also when it's dealing with like comics and things that we love already. Yeah. Hashtag not a sponsor. Question mark. Winky face. with that, I'm going to say, let's get into my favorite part of the show, which, know, I don't get, I don't, I've missed it.

I've missed you. I've missed your smell. Let's get into Chris's corner. It's time for Chris's Corner. All right. This week for Chris's Corner, we're talking about a movie again this week. We're talking about a real pain, which is written and directed by Jesse Eisenberg and stars Jesse Eisenberg and Kieran Culkin.

Now, a lot of people who been in the movies over the last couple of weeks probably have seen trailers for this movie. This is a pretty low budget searchlight film again, pretty much all on the back of Jesse Eisenberg. And I think Emma Stone was a producer on this. But a real pain follows mismatched cousins David and Benji, who reunite for a tour through Poland to honor their beloved grandmother.

The adventure takes a turn when the odd couples old tensions resurface against the backdrop of their family's history. Now, this movie is one of my favorites of the year for sure. It's in my top five. I'll go over my top five here in just a moment. But I will say that the reason why I love this movie so much is I think it, I said this on social media and I'll reiterate it here. I think we all know someone in our life who is sort of just like chronically inappropriate all the time.

Like they just cannot help but make moments that should. like civility should take over, but yet they just can't have a normal moment. And a lot of times it's annoying in the moment for sure. And you're like, God, why can't this person just be normal? And you're like, I love this person. I know how good they can be, but why can't they just like figure it out and be like a person? But this movie, but I think it does really well.

Karen Culkin, think will deservedly definitely get a nomination and possibly even win best supporting actor this year at the Oscars. I think it sort of highlights the idea that like a lot of this inappropriateness comes from a place of they've just they've had an onslaught of terribleness happen to them over their lifetime. And the sort of veil of normalcy is unimportant to them. They sort of like live in these two worlds where it's like charm, but also like hyper aggression.

It's discussing a lot of things in the movie. And I don't want to spoil really too much. I want everyone that's listening to this, go out and watch it for yourself. It's an incredible film. I got an early press screening to it I got to meet some of the people that work for searchlight. And just top to bottom loved it. And Aaron, do you have any interest in this movie? Are you at any point going to go see it maybe or? I'll watch it maybe when it comes out on streaming, like a streaming service.

Sure. It's not one that I would probably go out and just like look for. Sure. OK. Well, you know, as I said a moment ago, it's my third favorite movie of year. Here are my top five over on Letterboxd. I rank all of my favorite films of the year. I've got Doom Part Two and Sing Sing. That's tied for number one. You've got a real pain at number three because I don't really have a number two. The bike riders at number four and then a Nora at number five.

So those are some of my favorite movies of the year. We're getting towards the end of year. We've got a couple of big ones still coming out with like Nosferatu. I think there's like another one that I'm missing. I think the Brutalist is coming out in December. So there's a couple of movies that I'm excited to see still, but a real pain. It earns my highest recommendation. I cannot implore people enough to go check this movie out. So good to know.

Yeah. All right, everybody, that'll do it for episode 173 of the Oblivion Bar podcast. We have done it again, Aaron. We've we've taken over the city, Vic. It's out. It's fucking out. It's fucking out. You're a weakness. You're a fucking weakness. I love you too much. You're fucking dead. You're fucking dead. I got a stutter. Go to sleep. Go to sleep. All right. Next week, we don't have like, we don't necessarily have a topic at the moment. We'll just have to get back to you guys.

We'll tune in next week if you want to know what we're talking about here on the podcast. But until then, Aaron, take us out of here. All right. Subscribe to our podcast, Apple's podcast, Spotify, YouTube, Audible, iHeartRadio, wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. will be there. Fuck Twitter. Brand new official merch for the show is on our website, www.oblivionbarpodcast.com. Thank you KXD for all of our oblivion bar art. He's at KXD graphics on Instagram.

Thank you Dream Kid for all of our musical themes. Thank you DJ Skyback for our grid theme. Don't forget to tip your bartender 20 % or more or I'll come. I'll fucking come over. Jesus, I'll fucking find you. Fucking I'll fucking find you. Ma, ma, Mimilo. The me. All right, buddy. That'll do it for the Abilene more podcasts. We appreciate you guys all checking us out here. We will see you next week for episode 174.