Hey, this is Zach Quainance, the writer of the Death of Comics bookcase, and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast. Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles. Joining us this week on the show is someone many may already know as a well -regarded comic book journalist for popular sites like The Beat and Comics Bookcase.
Well, add Comic Book Scribe to his resume because The Death of Comics Bookcase Volume 1 is his recent crowdfunded anthology that, as of this recording, has well over 200 backers and just surpassed $10 ,000. It is my pleasure to welcome Zach Quaintance onto the Oblivion Bar podcast. Hey, how's it going, Chris? Thanks for that intro. I like hearing where the project's at. feels good when people say it. So they think that's the first time I've heard someone say it out loud. So that's right.
Which I mean, it only happened what a couple of days ago. Yeah, it's been, I mean, it feels like weeks for me because every day is so packed, but yeah, it's, it's only been like 10 days or whatever. Sure. Well, Zach, so thank you so much for coming onto the show. I appreciate you coming on to talk about the death of book, excuse me, the death of comics bookcase.
And I wanted to start off the conversation kind of talking about getting, you know, our listeners familiar with not only the death of comics bookcase, but also highlight. you know, your storied relationship with the medium and with the comics industry. So in whatever link that you want to give to our listeners, could you give us a rundown of your career in comics and what you were doing before deciding to take on writing?
So I've been like seriously involved with comics as an industry since about late 2017, early 2018, which is when I launched my, my now defunct blog, a comics bookcase. And before that, I've always been a writer. I was a journalist by trade. I still have a journalist day job and also a lifelong comic book fan. So I decided I kind of wanted to combine the two things and kind of give back to the industry and the medium a little bit. And so I launched a blog in 2018.
And then later that same summer, Heidi McDonald, who's run the beat for 20 years now, this is the Beats 20th anniversary this year, put out an all call on Twitter looking for journalists to help cover San Diego Comic -Con that summer. And I said, you know, I have a comics blog, I'm a journalist, I'd love to do this. She got me a pass, I went, I covered it for the Beat and I kept contributing to the Beat ever since.
That went on for a few years, the blog grew, like I think at our peak, we were doing pretty well, we were updating. four or five times a day, reviewing comics, interviewing creators. And then in 2022, I decided, you know, running your own blog is pretty tiresome. So I'm going to - Creating in general is super tiresome, right? Yeah, yeah.
And it was honestly, it was a matter of like, I feel like to do it right, it's like what you all do, like the podcasting and like, you got to be on every platform and everything. And I was just like, man, I don't know those tricks. Like, I just kind of want to write. And so I talked to Heidi and I went full time. more so at the beat.
And at the same time that cleared my schedule massively and I was finally able to like really hone a lot of the ideas I've been working on and start creating my own comics with my new free time after kind of putting my blog on pause. And now I'm killing that blog. And that's the story we have here in front of us. Now I'm curious.
So again, you just mentioned a moment ago that you kind of created the comics bookcase as a way to celebrate the medium and such just kind of broadly before we get into the death of it. Do you miss doing comics bookcase at all now? Sometimes. I don't miss the like grind of it. I miss the people I was working with over there. So like I was working with some really great, great people on that blog, like Lisa Gullickson from comic books, couples counseling contributed.
And we had a lot of writers that would contribute a few pieces and go on to write for the comics journal and comics XF and all these. So I got to meet a lot of really cool people who cared a lot about comics and knew about comics I didn't know about. And I missed that part of it a lot. Thankfully, social media and everything exists and I'm able to keep in touch with most everyone I worked with. Not quite as frequently as I'd like, but more or less.
Yeah. You know, it's funny about comics, Twitter, comics, fandoms online in general. I mean, comics Twitter was really fun and I'm sure you would agree maybe. what, 10 years ago, it was really, really fun. And it's kind of, I mean, it's still fun. Obviously if you're on, if you're on social media for comics, you can still find pockets of fellowship and camaraderie and you can celebrate things that you love.
And to be honest, I think that's actually how we met initially was not only through social media, but also through Lisa, you know, speaking of Lisa Gullickson, she was one who introduced us through, you know, through the beat. So I'm very thankful for her for that. And it obviously exposed me.
I was already familiar with comics bookcase, but I, you know, and I've heard you say this in other conversations that a lot of people reference to you or knew you as comics bookcase or they called you Mr. Bookcase, right? Like that was kind of your moniker. Yeah. People, people would make jokes like, Oh, that's a great take for a piece of furniture. And I'd be like, come on, that's not, Oh, come on. Take written by a piece of furniture. I'm a person.
But yeah, I was like a character on comics Twitter a little bit because I did. I ran the Twitter account for Comics Bookcase. I'd use the first person and it was about my relationship with comics. It was always a thing of I was trying to do it to promote the blog, but I would get a lot of engagement through people who would never dream of clicking on one of the blog links, but they loved to reply to the tweets and knew me that way. But yeah, I made a lot of friends on there.
Yeah, it was a good time. This is relevant to a similar way as... the comics bookcase and the oblivion bar just podcasting in general is that you can have these followings on social media. You can have online friends or what have you, but to get people to actually check out the thing that you're creating behind that account is, and I'm telling everyone listening right now, just so I'm sure most people know this, listening to this right now, that is one of the most difficult things to do.
So hard to get people to just click the link and check it out. Yeah. And it's like, it's especially odd to me. Like if you're, if you're known to a person because you're talking about comics on social media and then you're like, Hey, I did a whole hour conversation on this podcast about comics. You want to listen to it? And they're like, no, no, that's not for me. I just want to read these incremental takes. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's the same thing. Like it's the same thing.
Like just give it a shot. You know, not a lot to ask. It's free also. That's, I guess that's one of the true downfalls of social media is that folks will also often just like either look at the replies, look at the headline and then make a snap decision. based on that or someone else's other informed, uninformed opinion. And that's, you know, that's, that feels like a whole nother conversation that we could get into.
And we don't have to today because I want to spend the majority of our time together talking about the death of comics bookcase. And I have a synopsis here. If you don't mind, I'm going to read that for the, for the listener here. This is the synopsis for volume one. After their camping trip was hit by a thunderstorm, a group of teens wander into a creepy old house, which turns out to be the comics bookcase HQ inside. They come face to face with the living speaking.
and truly awful comics bookcase. He claims he wants to tell everyone, tell them stories, but can they trust him? So truthfully, my favorite part about reading this first volume of the death of comics bookcase, it becomes apparent very quickly that we are in the hands of someone who knows and truly understands the medium.
You play around with the inside baseball and the shorthand of reading comics in a way that doesn't alienate those that don't catch those small jokes, but it does give those that do like us. the warm and fuzzies that we've come to know and love from the medium. Yeah, I think there's layers to it.
Like I think, I think, yeah, like you said, and I appreciate you saying that, like if you don't, if you're not a person who spends all your time thinking about comics or maybe you're just kind of a casual reader, I think it's a lot of fun with just the story concepts, but I think there's another layer then for people who know comics as a medium really well. There's like nods to certain classic comics and, um, constructs like the old EC horror hosts.
And then there's a third layer even deeper past that of jokes for people like us who do their own sites and podcasts and no comics Twitter. So yeah, I think there's like several different layers to engage in. You can go as deep as you want, or you can just read it for the stories. I think it works. I hope it works for all those different groups. Oh, 100 % of us. And I'm curious, just kind of your temperature check across the board for followers or just.
friends or whomever you've had read the Death of Comics bookcase, what seems to be kind of the more prevailing popular entry in that anthology? Oh, the werewolf priest is the breakout star. I would say out of all the stories, that's the one I hear about the most or the people want to talk about the most. It's the lead story too. So you would hope that that's the one that grabs people and gets them to say like, yeah, I'm in for the whole ride after they read that one.
But yeah, like that's the conversation starter. And I'm glad, I'm glad that one is, cause that one's kind of constructed to be a series eventually, like a full, we have plans to build it into a full series. So, but yeah, that's, that's the star so far of the, of the couple dozen people who read the book as of now. I mean, when you have Anna Redman on the book, it's, I mean, it makes sense, right? And just kind of based on that and, you know, the story itself, did you anticipate that one?
And that is that why you chose that as the first entry in the anthology? Yeah. You know, it was weird. Like I kind of late did. The stories read in the anthology in the order I made them. So there's very chronological into how, like I just made one after the other and arranged them that way. I never thought twice about like, maybe I should move this one or that one.
But that, if it wasn't for the idea for that story and Anna being willing to work with me on that story, like the rest of them wouldn't exist. It's like that simple. Cause that was the first idea. That was the first one we went all in on doing as a pitch with a backup plan to like. Like we didn't want it to be one of those pitches that you hear about where people are, we had this great pitch, but no one's ever going to see it because it didn't for any one of a hundred reasons, it didn't go.
Uh, so we built this backup plan around it while working on that pitch that like, we were going to put it in this anthology. Um, and I talked to a few editors to make sure like, Hey, if this shows up in an anthology, like that disqualify it from being a pitch you'd look at. And they all said, no. So took off from there. Isn't that what Hellboy wasn't Hellboy in an anthology before he eventually like Malibu son or something like that. I can't remember exactly.
Yeah, it was either that or it was like a short comic they passed out at San Diego, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I shared a thing on Twitter earlier today. Everyone were for everyone listening. And now we're brand new back on Twitter. We were on for a long time. We hopped off for obvious reasons. And then now we're back. But there was a panel I really love. And I won't spoil anything for anybody that hasn't read it yet. But it's kind of a play on a panel you had earlier in the story.
where it's like Cox News, which is obviously a play on Fox News and they're doing their normal performative hyper bowl. And as our, I will say our titular villain is attacking, the people that he's attacking says something like, must be a migrant on fentanyl, probably trying to vote. I'm glad you caught that one. Yeah. Cause that's a, that I was really proud of that joke where there maybe shouldn't be a joke cause it's a horror story, but like.
But yeah, I couldn't resist kind of doing a call back to the first, the very first page. It's like a call back. Um, yeah, I'm glad you liked that one. I saw that panel and I was like, hell yeah, somebody got it. Yeah. And I don't know if I already said this or not, but it is my favorite story in the anthology as well of the, you know, what is one, two, three, four, five that we have here in this story.
Uh, the werewolf priest is I think the one that I am most intrigued by and of the couple of conversations that I've listened to you talk about this, it seems like that in, you already said it too, seems to be the one that people are excited about. And you have active pitches for this. And is it the gold mask as well? Gold mask. Yeah, gold mask is so the difference between them. The Werewolf Priest is the first eight pages of a number one issue. Like we have I've scripted the rest of it.
Like that's basically act one of what would be number one of it has a different series name because it's kind of a monster of the week concept. It's not always going to be aware of priests. But yeah, and then gold mask, which is a fantasy comic, is more of a proof of concept, but just kind of an introduction of the character. but there's also like an outline and hope among the entire creative team to eventually pitch that as a series and build that into a fantasy mini series.
I really love that character. I love writing that character and I love the, the character design that Luke Horseman did for that. It just doesn't get better. It always makes me laugh. I love it too.
Gold mass was definitely up there and I don't have a question around this, but I do want to say just briefly that as I was reading this for the first time, The Web of Priests obviously, like I said, was my favorite, but I felt like as I kept going and you know how anthologies go, sometimes you'll read the first one and it's really good and then you'll kind of like just nothing peaks after that.
Respectfully, of course, I felt like as I kept reading, I found something I liked about every single one. You know, the responsibility, a responsibility. I think it's how you say it is basically, you know, kind of a riff on, you know, amazing fantasy and early Spider -Man and kind of, but also dealing with like modern AI issues and things like that.
The gold mask, which is like you just talked about briefly was a smart mouth, dark mage gold mask who finally has infiltrated the tower of Zacchadus. Is that how you say that? Zadakus. Zadakus. Thank you. And then, you know, it tries to steal a fabled dark artifact. The next door to which is actually a continuation of another comic that you had done before. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. It's next door was a one shot that I did in 20. It came out in 2021 and also crowdfunded.
And this is like a first 10 pages of. what would be next door number two. Yeah. And you know, as someone who has not, you know, regrettably has not read next door quite yet. I still think that I found a lot of enjoyment in that, that second part. And if nothing else, it made me more intrigued to want it to eventually check out next door number one. Oh, I appreciate that. Yeah. It was built to standalone.
Um, there's like a, uh, half a page kind of like where they talk about the events of the first one, but I feel like you can read, write, pass on and just get into the story from, from the, from the word go. But yeah, that. And that's one we want to do more of as well, obviously. Yeah. And then the final story is Apes versus Sharks, the Omega Brain 4.
Yeah. Which if everyone listening right now, if that sounds insane, it's I think kind of the funny premises behind the story is that the Apes versus Sharks is not entirely the central part of this story. Am I fair to say that? I think that's fair. Yeah. It definitely started as like... That one had a long journey. Like it took me a long time to write that one. And it started as something and became something else. But yeah, it starts with apes versus sharks.
And it starts with the idea of like, I was making a 48 page comic and I thought to myself, like, there's just no way I'm going to make a 48 page comic and not have some apes in it. I've passed the threshold for, for how many stories I've done without apes. So it's time. That's right. But yeah, it ended up being really personal, like surprisingly, even to me as I worked on it and I was like, Oh man, what am I doing with this?
Uh, and I, it's probably the one I'm like most nervous for people to read out of all of them. Hmm. Well, it's interesting because I think that, uh, there are a couple, I would say the responsibility, teen gold mask, I would say parts of next door, number two and apes versus sharks.
What I really appreciate about all of them and what I think readers will find really interesting as well is that your voice and each of those, I feel like you're able to tell what sort of, uh, you know, I wouldn't say political thoughts you're trying to put out to the reader, but. I would say like your moral compass is evident in these stories and it's, but it's not something that I think is a overbearing.
Uh, you know, I don't really believe that that you're always going to put parts of yourself in your work, but like it feels there's this perfect levy of just a good cohesive story. And then there's that slight undertone of, uh, you know, here's like a, here's a sub subliminal sort of view as well. I'm sorry. I'm just sort of spinning my wheels trying to describe it, but I just really appreciated it. Yeah, I think you're right.
There's not a single one of these stories that I set out to make any kind of point. Not one of them is built like, I believe this about that and I want to get that across. But what happened with a lot of them is they would start with the high concept, like the really pulpy, like I love pulp comics. I love comics that are fun and kind of wank and they're just like a good time.
And so the concepts for all of them started that way, whether it was a werewolf priest, a dark mage with a smart mouth, apes fighting sharks. or making a new superhero. They all started with the idea of, let's do something that I personally like about comics. I want to make that kind of comic. And then as I worked on it more and more, I wanted it to be unique to me. What can I add here to these things I love?
How can I make it my version of a superhero, my version of a horror story, all these different things? And the more personal became these sort of like, I don't think there's really, like you said, you're right, it's not. political, but like it's what I'm feeling about what's happening in the world around me is in all these stories. And like moral compass, like I think gold mass kind of that story more than anything speaks to my personal moral compass.
Like, like, like gold mass sort of doesn't set out to do the right thing. And like, we can like talk about why that makes me shitty or whatever, but he ends up doing it. And then he ends up complaining about it the whole time. And that's how I feel as a person in the world. So that was like, its way into my fantasy story. And I think they all have like, like there's one about my relationship to AI and the werewolf priest.
I was a journalist in South Texas and that kind of that character found its way into that story also. So they all have, they all have a little bit, if you know me, you'll probably be tired of me by the end of the reading this book. I disagree. I was intrigued personally. I'll tell everyone as a first time reader of Zach's work, this is something that I, I I'm definitely, and I know that, you know, the death of comics bookcase volume two is already in production, right? Like it's already.
If not production, it's already been like planned, correct? Yeah, like I have I know every story. I know every story that would be in it. I've outlined it. I have loose notes. When the campaign's done, I'll start scripting. I have artists in mind and like some of the same characters will come back like I'm not entirely like it like a little bit of it is up to like if the gold mass pitch or the werewolf priest pitch turn into anything like but definitely. I have a title for it.
Like, yeah, it's, it's happening. And the, like, the better the campaign does, the faster it'll happen. Cause I like to, I like to get the comics made ahead of time. I don't want any of the artists to have to work under some promise that like, we're going to split the Kickstarter or whatever. Cause that's no fun to have that uncertainty. So yeah, like the better this does, the faster they'll go right into production and we'll get it out there.
Now with the success that we've highlighted there at the beginning of the introduction. you know, over 200 backers just surpassed $10 ,000 in terms of like overall support, which is incredible. I mean, but I'm curious specifically, is that support for a Kickstarter campaign, specifically a comic book? Is that huge? You know, can you, can you kind of contextualize that for everybody? I'm not walking away with a ton of money because it's like making indie comics is expensive.
And like, I, like I aimed high with the artists and had colorists and all these things. Um, but it is, uh, really great. to get that kind of support. And basically at this point, a print run is paid for. I have a little bit of money to start making the next one. And it's like, I just want more backers because I'm really, really proud of this book. And I want it to be the start of something. I want this to be one of those campaigns that people follow through all three planned volumes.
And it kind of builds and brings in more people. And there's word of mouth and everything. And that was part of the reason, too, I wanted to make the whole book ahead of the campaign so that we could get it right to the printer as soon as like. as soon as the money clears, essentially, because my last experience with Kickstarter, I just felt like we interest in the book sort of peaks when you're promoting it daily and then you're exhausted.
And then it takes a year or whatever it might take to make it. And then people like get it in the mail and they're like, what is this? Like I had one guy on Twitter, like I had these comics bookcase stickers that I were a stretch goal and went out with every issue in next door. And some guy like tagged me on Twitter and was like, I don't know where I got this or what it is, but it's kind of cool. And I'm like, That was what the comic I really cared about. Like, thanks for remembering that.
Also, you put your credit card down for this, just so you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You paid money for that. So like, but yeah, that kind of stung and stuck with me. And I was like, well, next time they'll remember where they got that sticker. That's right. Well, you kind of alluded to this a moment ago, but it feels sort of like this first volume is, you know, a love letter that's written with a poison tip pen. And what I mean by when I say that is that you obviously love the medium.
And as we said earlier, you've been a leading force in terms of analyzing critiquing it. for some time now, but at the same time, you know, you've been high, you highlight and you poke fun at certain parts of, you know, the typical cliches that comic books are known for in a way that says like, you know, isn't this silly? You know, like we're all, this is, we all know that this is super silly, right?
Uh, and my question for you though is how much of that is holding up a mirror to the medium and embracing its silliness or, uh, and you know, how much of that is you just highlighting the many different tones you think a comic book can juggle at the same time? I think it's more of the latter. Like, I think one of the things I love about comics is the versatility and how it can be something serious like a graphic memoir about trauma with no humor whatsoever.
And it can be really, really fun and all humor. And it can be that my favorite comics tend to be this amazing intersection of the two. I think Grant Morrison is a writer that does that really well, that appreciates comics for it being a lighter medium. very accessible and capable of being irreverent, but also can be used to make a serious point and really get at something honest about yourself you can't say in any way. Grant Morrison and Frank Quietly's Flex Mentallo does that incredibly well.
And I'd say that's one of the main inspirations, particularly for the ape shark story, where it takes the medium seriously. And obviously you can't... make comics of that quality without absolutely loving comics, but it also kind of pokes a little bit of fun at it and the history of it and just like how unique and singular the medium is. And that's what I was kind of, that's what I found myself doing, like as I kind of got deeper and deeper into this, just having fun with it.
But yeah, it's my take on comics, right? Like I would never tell anyone who like, like there's people who will refer to a comic as the text and I've always kind of like. I respect that enough, but I would never refer to a comic as the text. My version is a little lighter.
That implies, I think, and I agree with you 100%, I think that implies that the text, the continuity is ever important and that we should stick to it and that we shouldn't use the flexibility of continuity, but we should stick to it as like a Bible in a way, right? Yeah. It's just so permanent and serious sounding, like an academic paper or like a religious document. I don't know.
Yeah, I just it's never felt like quite right to me to like take comics that seriously but I respect people who do and I and like and I know like Some people think like oh well We'll never be taken that seriously as a medium if we don't like really kind of buy into like But I think there's room for everything like and like I said That's the versatility of it in the way it can cover that whole spectrum is the thing I really love about comics in particular and the way like Some
of my favorite creators who make the most serious kind of high -minded comics I'll see them on social media reading just total goofy stuff and loving it. You know, like, and I love when that happens. Yeah. You got Tom King posting pictures of him reading, you know, the peanuts or whatever, you know? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I love what you said there a moment ago and I agree 100%.
I can't remember who said this exactly, but I think it went something to the effect of like most mediums, you know, it will say like prose novels or what have you are written in permanent marker, but comics are written in dry erase. So. in a way that, and I think what they meant by that is that there's a flexibility to the medium that a lot of others don't, right? Like if you read a Batman story from Grant Morrison and a Batman story from Tom King, they're probably wildly different, right?
And that also speaks to the flexibility of the character of Batman, but also you can do that with a lot of different characters, you know? I mean, yeah, I just think, yeah, there's just something inherent to the way, like making comics is really labor intensive and takes a long time.
And like, I think as they're being made, like you, new ideas can occur to you in a way that, Other storytelling mediums where like you kind of finalize a script for a television show, it goes into production and it's locked in. Don't like you can like, I mean, you're rewriting, you're doing lettering passes. Like some of the jokes in the framing sequence were 100 % at it after colors came back.
Like, and I was reading it for the, looking through these pages for the eighth time and like new things were still popping and occurring to me just because of the process being that long. it doesn't strain the credibility of a story that was already about a talking bookcase that had one more joke in there. Which of these entries do you think has been the most like, I wouldn't say grueling, but the one that's been the most challenging, I guess you would say.
The two that were like for me as a creator, the two that were hardest to write were the Responsibility and Apes versus Sharks. Those ones really were labor intensive for me. They're both, they're more, they both have a little bit of meta fiction. And I think there was a bit of like, walking in big, big footsteps at play there. Like those are probably the two I'm most nervous about as well for people to read. But yeah, those ones took a lot of work.
And I was also really nervous about bringing both of those artists on to make sure that they were kind of like in sync with the way we were playing with some of the ideas there. So yeah, those two were, were the ones that really took the biggest toll on me as a writer. Definitely. Sure. Yeah. And just for everyone that's aware, is everyone listening right now? The robots, the responsibility, teen art and letters and colors by Nick Cagnetti. Is that correct there?
And then was it the apes versus sharks was artists PJ Holden, who maybe a lot of people might know from a Judd Strett. So, and both are great too. And it's, it's interesting that you say those two, two of your most challenging because I feel like as I look at the five entries of the death of comics bookcase, those two stand out to me as maybe the most impressive. Oh, thank you. I'm glad to hear you say that. Yeah, 100%.
I mean, again, I already said that the Werewolf Priest is my favorite, but I think that alludes more to my taste in comics. I love sort of the Noire detective horror type of storyline, you know, but I will say that the responsibility, I won't say that like people who have never read comics can enjoy this. They absolutely can. But I think if you are familiar with the medium and you speak that language, you're going to get a kick, like a true kick out of this responsibility.
And I know at one point you even have a moment where you point at the at the writer, you're talking like almost to yourself. And that meta, like you were saying a moment ago, is cycling through as you're reading it. So and then, of course, like I said, the apes versus sharks, the apes and the sharks are sort of a foreground, you know, setting like they're like not really the true pillar of the story. It's more so the character that has control of the omega brain.
And I don't want you to have to try to explain the story to me. You know, obviously that's part of the journey of reading it and also creating it. But like my view of the story was that any time that. our main character needed to escape from reality. He would go, he would use the Omega brain and it would take him directly back into this wild world of apes versus sharks. But they also wanted something from him as well, you know?
And I think that speaks to how like, uh, when you become a comic fan, uh, and I'm gonna speak broadly here, this obviously isn't ever the case of everyone, but I think from the folks that I know, there aren't people who just kind of read comics. You know what I mean? Like they read, they're a Wednesday warrior. They read comics, they listen to comic book podcasts. They go to see every single MCU film. They have a pull list maybe at one or two places. It's all of that, right? Definitely, 100%.
It's for people like that. And for me, I also think that not only are you in that deep, but it tends to be a thing that you can't shake. You might come out of it a little bit, but it always sort of pulls you back. Especially for those of us, I feel like, who kind of got into it as kids and have really positive. Young memories of it.
I think that there's just always a part of you that's kind of locked in to comics like at least the way I engaged with it as a kid like like I During college or right after college like maybe didn't have as much money to read comics or time or just like other things I was involved in and would step away a little bit But it was always there with me and I was always wondering what was going on and always coming back So like yeah that that was that was a big part of it is just kind of
like saying like this has been my relationship to comics and then I The other side of that coin is like, plus I really love apes and comics. As we've said, as we, as we've highlighted earlier in the conversation, there's one thing I've established here on the show. It's my love of comic comic book apes. Did you see that DC did some kind of like eight month or eight? I read it. I can't remember what it was. It was April. April. There was just an anthology of ape stories. What's going on?
Did you put in a pitch for that or no? No, no. Maybe next year. Maybe next year. I'm sure it'll be a huge hit and they'll do it every year now. Right. Well, I wanted to kind of briefly go back just a moment where we were just talking about there in terms of like what I find so interesting. And I think the reason why or part of the reason why I love the medium so much is that you can hand someone you can hand you have two folks in front of you.
You have a six year old and a six year old and you can hand them Spider -Man Blue, you know, by Jeff Lowe and Tim Sale. Oh, yeah. And I guarantee you. they're both going to take out wildly different things from that book. That sort of speaks to the flexibility of the medium. Like as we were just talking about a moment ago and how as a kid you can read Spider -Man and go, man, I love, you know, his suits. I love his powers. I love his villains. That's all great. He's funny. Exactly.
Yeah. All the, all the like, and you can like power fantasy, like sort of power fantasy your way into the POV of Peter in those stories. As an adult, what I think makes Spider -Man so compelling is that he can't be happy. If he is happy for more than 10 minutes, something will happen. Aunt May will die. MJ will break out with him. Something will happen. Or yeah, he gets fired from the Daily Bugle, something like that.
And I think that speaks to the power of comics is that you remember as an adult that adults are making this. They're putting themselves into these stories and yeah, they're accessible for all ages. But again, I love the fact that you can do all that with one medium. You can't hand a 12 year old. Game of Thrones, most of them, you can't hold, you can't hand most of them. Yeah, you absolutely should not.
But you know, you could hand, you know, a 12 year old, you know, for instance, like, I don't know if this is really appropriate. I don't really know what I think is appropriate for young people anymore because they have the entire world of violence and anger in their hands at all times. But you can hand them, you know, you can hand them Watchmen and I guarantee you, and that's a book that I read, I see on your shelf right behind you.
That's a book I read every couple of years and pick up something new every time I read it. Yeah. It's like listening to The Beatles in a way. You read Watchmen when you're 12 and you like different parts of it. You read it when you're 18 and you like different parts of it. You read it when you're 25 and you like still different parts of it. Yeah, and that's a really great point.
One of the books I was reading as I was working on these comics was Astro City by Kurt Busiek and Brent Anderson, which were comics that I had read as a kid and had liked. I was like, I just want to see different versions of superheroes that seem kind of familiar to me. That's great. And then I was re -reading them last year, last summer, into the fall and just like really appreciating the complexity of the human characters, the like smaller people in it.
And I think that speaks right to that point. That's like comics has this ability to offer different things to different generations and to have that rereadability to a lot of it as you kind of grow and take new things away from some of these stories. 100%. Well, Zach, I have one final question for you here and it has to do with sort of making the leap into the world of writing.
And obviously you've been doing the writing for a while, but I guess I'm speaking specifically about the world of writing comics, you know? Sure. And many of us, you know, suffer from imposter syndrome and either don't know or can't make that emotional leap to at least attempt to write a script or reaching out to potential collaborators. So asking for a friend who, may or may not possibly be in this recording studio currently.
What was your very first step in that process of creating stories and then putting in the back end work to make them real and then eventually having the courage to share them out into the world? It's hard. It's a great question because it is hard. The very first step was during the pandemic, a friend of mine, Pat Scott, who's an artist, reached out to me and was like, hey, I'm home on quarantine. Do you want to write a five page comic? And I was like, Yeah, let's do it.
Sorry, my schedule's busy. I don't have a lot of time, but sure. Right, right. And that's sort of how Nextdoor had started. But the only reason he reached out to do that was because I'd been tweeting, I was working on scripts for other things. So I'd already taken that first step to just set aside 30 minutes to an hour a night after work to just play with scripting comics and to read. And it's a book I saw on your shelf earlier, The D***. Hardcover the vision. Oh sure.
Yeah, and if you look in the back of that there's script pages side -by -side with finished art and so you can kind of see how the script led to the art and so I had that book and I had a couple others that had that kind of Script material in it So I was just reading those and I was just spending that 30 30 minutes to an hour every night like Discipline like something like like you would if you were working out, you know Just making myself sit down to do this and try to have fun with it and
it wasn't fun at first like his It's hard, it's hard work. And then kind of sticking with it. But then there's different levels. So I made that first comic and after that happened, it took me a while to kind of figure out what my next move was. And it just, I think if you really want to do this, it'll keep coming back and keep coming back and you'll just feel incomplete. Like you have to do this, you're not going to be happy.
And so yeah, I guess my advice around that is start writing, find an artist or a friend. try to do something small. Like you'll see people who come on Kickstarter with their first project and be 150 page graphic novel, the first to five. And it's like, I don't recommend that. That's not a good idea. Yeah, that's ambitious. Sure. But save that, save that after you've made some short comics. And Brian Bendis will talk about this a lot, like just make a comic. You can do it with stick figures.
You can do it learning to draw very crudely. You can do it with a friend, whatever, like just. try your hand at it and get going. Yeah. Do you ever feel any of that type of, I'm sure you have, but just out of curiosity, feeling that imposter syndrome and what was kind of like your way of jumping over that in some way? I know it's kind of a broad question, but - No, I did, a hundred percent. You know what really helped? Getting off social media, taking a social media break.
While I was working on Wear With Priest, I was - barely on social media. And it's kind of hurt me with marketing this campaign, to be totally honest with you, because I feel like there's people who back my first campaign. We were like Twitter buddies, and I disappeared on them in a way. And I get that, and so they're not as excited about this project. But I had to do it.
There was that imposter syndrome, because you'll see people on there every day working on really cool stuff, impossibly cool stuff. Here's a new cover, here's new art, here's what I'm pitching. And it's just like... it all becomes a little intimidating after a while, this deluge of all this cool stuff that everybody seems to be working on and Kickstarters are rolling out and you don't know how you're gonna get to that point. Things happened on Twitter, you guys left, you know what was going on.
It made it much easier to step away, I was gonna probably step away anyway. But that really helped, not being on social media to overcome imposter syndrome and just kind of working on things in a vacuum. And having a few very close friends, like my buddy, Harrison Stor and Easton DiVerno who are both comic creators.
I was in touch with them the whole time while I was working on this stuff, running ideas by them, like having that kind of a close circle of people rooting you on and being like, yeah, this is cool. Maybe reconsider this. Like that was the other thing that really helped me kind of overcome any kind of imposter syndrome or like just being intimidated by the task, you know? Yeah. I don't know why. And again, I'm speaking from a friend here that's in the room with us right now. It's not me.
It's definitely not me. It's somebody that's with us right now. I don't know why, but when I think, oh, I'm sorry, when they think that you got to write a script for a comic, like you got to like be Alan Moore for some reason, like you got to be this like seven layer deep subtext of just all these different elements. You're talking about God and the, and the universe. And, and you're also writing a compelling swamp thing story all at the same time. And you don't have to do that.
You know, I have to keep telling this person that I know that's in the room with us, that that's not what you, not what you're supposed to do. Well, tell your friend, like, one thing that helped me with that was I tried to do one cool thing every other page, like to have one really cool thing, whether it was like in Nextdoor, there's a sequence of where time passes through three panels and they're like, it's a character on the phone and she's having the same progressive conversation.
So the first panel, it's clearly summer. The next panel, it's fall. The next panel, it's winter, you know? And I was like, this is a cool thing you can only do with comics. Like, so rather than try to like, sum up God, that's what I did. I tried to every other page or so or like every so often I'd be like, you know what, even if this story is not working, people don't like it. At least I have this cool thing like that I'm kind of proud of. And I think is a little bit clever.
Tell your friend that. Although no. Well, Zach, thank you so much for joining me here today on the Oblivion Bar podcast. The campaign ends on May 2nd. Is that correct for? That's right. Yeah. Midnight on May 2nd. Midnight on May 2nd, the death of comic book case volume one. Everyone make sure If you're listening right now, please check out the link in our show notes to back this incredible anthology. I honestly cannot implore people to do that enough.
And Zach, I'll speak to you here personally, you and what your artists have done here with the Death of Comic bookcase is something that many of us, as we've talked about, we've all dreamed of it, you know, and you're doing it. You're freaking doing it right now. And just giant congratulations from Aaron and I for the wild success that is not only this campaign, but also the book because it is excellent. Thank you. No, I really appreciate that. I hope.
people who love the medium as much as you all clearly do with your show and how, how great of a job you do with it. Like if I inspire any of you to make comics, man, what a great, what a great legacy that would be for this project. 100%. Well, Zach, I'm going to pass the baton off to you one last time. Is there anything that you want to plug out? I mean, it could be death of comic book case or it could not be anything you want to plug any socials to highlight before we let you go.
You can find me on all. on blueskies .com, I'm probably a little more active on there than anywhere else. Comics Bookcase on Twitter is always keep that around to promote whatever my next project is. And then if you really want to make sure you don't miss when I'm up to, if you go to comicsbookcase .com, you can still sign up for the newsletter there. And I use that sort of now to update people very sporadically on what I'm writing and when I have new projects.
But other than that, please back the project. Last thing I'd like to say is all these artists are absolutely amazing. Like, would be no book without them. And them being willing to work with me on this is an incredible honor. So shout out to each and every one of them. What you've done over the last, I'd say, you know, two weeks or so in terms of promoting this book is incredible.
You know, you have been tenacious, I guess is maybe the best word to say in terms of the way you post about it, which is incredible. I'm an amateur. The master is David Pepos. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's the guru. Like he's the one if you want to know how to promote a comic book, look at David Pepos. Like he's an inspiration. And actually before I started, he was the first one I knew who did comics press, who went into making comics. And so like he's been an incredible resource and incredible help.
Like I've asked him so many questions and I've asked him like, Hey, is it harder to get taken seriously as a creator if you've done press? And he's just been great. Like it has been rigorous, um, all the promotion and it never stops, but like, That guy, that guy, man, like that guy's everywhere promoting space goes right now, like twice as hard as I'm promoting this. But yeah, that's where I learned that.
I know we're kind of winding down the conversation, but it sort of feels like we're all just trying to add our sort of our love letter into the medium. We're trying to like highlight what's great about the medium in some way or another. And it sort of feels like the modern, or at least it seems more, it seems more apparent or more apt to happen now. The natural progression. as like a podcaster, a journalist, someone who loves comics and that's where you start.
And eventually if you either find yourself with the know -how or the right person or just the ability, you will make your way into actually writing the physical comics themselves. Yeah, I mean, two things. I think comics is a, it demands your participation at a certain point. Like there's a long history of like people who start in fan press and like just want to do it themselves. And the barrier to entry is not as high as something like.
writing an entire novel or making a whole, certainly making a whole movie. And then, yeah, like now I think it's harder than ever to like break in or to like, like a lot of the traditional channels for like pitching to a publisher, getting on at a publisher. It's like the market's in a bit of a downswing. It's just hard. It's, it's really difficult to kind of break in the way we've, you traditionally think of it, but it's easier than ever to have a web comic or crowd fund.
So like, I think that's another thing that's like really opened up the path to go from like. And if you have the DIY spirit of doing your own podcast or blog, it's a very similar skill set to promoting your own crowd funder or webcomic. So it kind of opens doors for you that way that you've done this. I wouldn't know you, I wouldn't know Lisa, I wouldn't know half the people who I've talked to without having done Comics Press. Well, friend in the room listening right now, you hear that?
You can do it. So everyone listening right now to this conversation, you can do it as well. If you like what Zach has done here with the Death of Comics bookcase, just know that he's been where we are. So make sure that if he can do it and do it as well as he has thus far, that gives everyone a little bit of a little bit more confidence in themselves.
So Zach, once again, I want to thank you for coming on the Oblivion Bar podcast and down the road at some point, I'd love to have you back on for the Death of the Common Book, or excuse me, the Death of Common Bookcase volume two or just whatever you're working on at that time. Yeah, anytime, man. This was a blast. I'd love to come back. Awesome. Well, thank you, Zach. Thank you.