Hello, this is Patrick Horvath, the creator behind Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees, and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast. Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles. Joining us this week on the show is the creator behind the smash hit IDW series, Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees, which tells the story of an anthropomorphic brown bear named Samantha Strong.
Sam has built a cozy life and a thriving business in a community surrounded by friendly fellow animal folk. But she does have one small secret. She's a serial killer. It is our pleasure to welcome Patrick Horvath onto the Oblivion Bar podcast. Hello. Thank you so much for having me on. Oh, yes. So good to see you, Patrick. Thank you so much for being here on the show.
You know, a little inside baseball before we get into the actual conversation, I'm just going to let the listeners know and kind of give them a peek behind the curtain. We had a clip of Teddy Bear Picnic waiting and ready to go. Aaron and I listened to it at least three times before you hopped on here. But the trees where nobody sees. Yeah. You know, the Henry Hall 1932 version. And since we can't play it unless I just add it in post here.
Sure, we'd love to just kind of get your thoughts on when you listen to teddy bear picnic What what did that bring out of you for beneath the trees was it? Did you just hear the line and go?
Okay, I'm gonna create a story about an anthropomorphic bear that kills people so So it I I think the first time I'd heard it was not the Henry Hill version it was a Modern version that was part of like a kids tunes compilation album from like the mid 90s and like probably played I don't know when I Just, you know, some commercial break on TV. I was a big TV kid growing up. And so when I'd heard it, it definitely had that part of the, it was like the second course.
And it was beneath the trees where nobody sees, they hide and seek as long as they please. Cause that's the way the teddy bears have their picnic. And I was just like, what? For some reason it just like, and you heard it enough. And I guess the way my mind worked, I was just like, what are they doing that nobody can see? Like, what is it that the teddy bears are doing?
I just thought it was funny to give it a sinister bend because it was it just seemed silly to do that with such an obviously not sinister thing and so That had always been in my head. So since the mid 90s basically and I didn't tie it to anything but then around 2000 about seven years ago, so like around 2007 17 almost 2016 maybe It was around then I was I mean I'd been drawing daily in the mornings.
Ah just for like first thing I did waking up, like having a cup of coffee and a draw, just as a daily practice. And whatever the drawings would be, like if you ever check out my Instagram, like, and you go back far enough, you can see them all. They just have like over thousands of just like whatever, just every day I would just draw something.
And one of them was this anthropomorphic bear who was wearing like a pair of like coveralls and like had like a bloody axe and was walking through the woods. And I was like, um, And I didn't know. And a lot of these things, I never, as I'm drawing them, I don't have any like preconceived notion of where the drawing is going. It just kind of happens, you know. And but they tend to feel like they're snapshots of, you know, there was a before and there was an after.
It's just the way my brain works and kind of how I put pictures together. So it and I don't necessarily know what that would be. But in that case, I was like, well, it would be kind of funny if you had, you know, somebody I immediately was thinking of like Richard scary stuff when I was looking at it. and busy town and all the anthropomorphic sort of folks that live in there.
And I was like, it'd be funny if you had a serial killer that lived amongst them, who everyone just thought was hiding in plain sight, basically. And then you ended up like, but they were thriving. And like, wouldn't that be funny? And so that kind of turned into my head like a pitch of just kind of in my pocket. If I ever had the opportunity to pitch, that would be one of them.
And so that's that's kind of how the and I immediately Would be like it would be called beneath the trees where nobody sees like that was immediate And so in that moment like back in whatever 2017 or 16, whatever I'm pretty sure the drawings on my Instagram if you go back far enough That's kind of where it all kind of came together slightly terrifying but also super entertaining that beautifully kind of transitioned us into kind of like our true first question,
which, you know, you had mentioned Richard scary and I, and I know that, you know, I've listened to many interviews that you've done over the last few months. You're like a true, like triathlon athlete when it comes to podcasts, you've done so many over the last six months. And it is like, it's very amiable to see how much you give to your readers and fans and such.
And we're, and again, we're happy to be among those folks that you've sat down with and you know, Another comparison that you get along with that Richard scary is the Dexter comparison. Obviously it's even part of like the, you know, kind of like the, what would you call it? The pitch that you even see on like the IDW website and all that. And mean, yeah, that was the pitch when we, I mean, when we were, when I was pitching IDW was basically just like it was, it's the cultural touchdown.
Right. And you know, I have all the conversations I've listened to. I want to kind of really focus on Dexter.
And I know you've said, Previously that you've only really seen the first episode so it's not really a big right like a giant influence It was more of like the idea of Dexter and I was but for me I was a dedicated Dexter fan back in the 2010s and I love the idea of both Sam and Dexter Morgan kind of being like these like neat monsters and You know as many know I hope at this point we're gonna spoil a show that came out in 2013 Dexter didn't get out of that with that neat ending that he wanted
So my question for you is, do you think Sam deserves a similar fate? Yeah, well, without spoiling anything too much, I mean, part of the story drama is that it's chaos coming into our life, right? It's like being blindsided by the sort of hubris that she has and thinking that she's a couple steps ahead of everybody and that she has this very perfectly ordered life and that she's sort of the smartest person in town. So she thinks, right?
And it basically allows this thing to show up in her own backyard that really derails her. And so, I mean, yeah, possibly. Like there's it's definitely for this chapter. And and I mean, fingers crossed, like I hope I get to do more because they definitely have a lot more that I'd like to do with this if possible. And so, I mean, the fates are sort of up in the air in terms of what's going to happen with Sam. I'm going to take a wild guess, Aaron, back me up here.
I have a weird feeling that the fans and I would even say IDW are probably going to be very excited about more Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees. I think if you're willing to do it, people are going to want it in droves. Absolutely. Oh, man. I hope I get the chance to do that for sure. Yeah, I see a whole I was going to say I see a whole world, you know, a whole, you know, like scary town.
Like there's there's so many different stories that you could tell with this town and every kind of oh, yes. Yeah, Woodbrook. And it's. It's not, and right, you know, like Chris was saying, we're only seeing it from Sam's perspective right now. There's just so many facets to this community that we still have no idea about. And that's the allure of it. Just like we're talking about, we're going to talk about more in this conversation. We, we, the familiarity is not the known.
The familiarity is just, it's just a facade to the unknown. And what's behind that facade is absolutely terrifying. And that's what to me, that's what makes this book. absolutely addicting. And I'm just I'm just impressed that it's, you again, with issue one, you can see it issue one, you are hooked. And that is quality writing right there. And you wrote and drew all of this, right? Yeah. Mm hmm.
Yep. And it takes you about I've heard before, you can correct me if I'm wrong, about 18 hours to do one page. Is that correct? Yeah, it's somewhere between like 40. Honestly, like on average, it's probably more like 14 hours. Sure. And if I, yeah, it just depends where I could find that time. We also have like a 17 month old child at home. Oh, it's been an interesting prospect with this whole last year. Oh, my God. Can you feed her, please? I have to draw a bear killing someone.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take care of it really quick. It's pretty funny how twisted a lot of the sort of Jackson positions of my life are in terms of what I'm drawing and what I'm doing. But the. But yeah, I mean, it's pretty time intensive and I do prefer to do it all traditional. So it's all like ink and gouache that I put it together. And, you know, but it's still like would be a lot faster than if I were to do it myself digitally.
But I very much, you know, enjoy the fact that I get to write it and draw it. That was huge for me and have a background in movies as well in writing and directing that. And it is there's just a lot more people involved. So the the the threading the needle of actually getting as close to a realization of what you were aiming for for the final product is a lot harder with movies. And one of the things I've really been enjoying is just having a lot more control over that with comics.
It's been incredible. I mean, I've really been enjoying it. Yeah. You know, we had a good friend of the show we have here on quite a bit, Christian Ward. Oh, sure. Comic creator. He has often told Aaron and I when he comes on. and it shows in his work. And I think you do it really well here with Beneath the Trees as well, that the defining feature of an incredible first issue is having the reader go, oh, this is what the story is about. And then at the end go, nope, just kidding.
It's actually about this. And you do that perfectly with issue one of Beneath the Trees. And I think that's also why so many people love it is because, you know, of course there are, upon rereading, there are the seeds of what we think the story is going to be about. but then seeing it is an experience all on its own. Well, I mean, I really appreciate that. Thank you very much.
It definitely, I mean, it's funny too, because like the main hook of the whole series is that twist at the end of number one. And so for anyone who did read any solicits, I mean, that was in there. And so, but you kind of need that, but at the same time, like it's such a fun, if you didn't read that, it's such a fun ride because it definitely, is interesting to me to just kind of follow the day in day out of a serial killer, just without the anthropomorphic part.
And then you put that layer on and that's fun as well. But then to turn it into a sort of a spy versus spy, like the only way you can catch a killer is with a killer, you know, a la Dexter was very, very like that's very, very fun. And felt like a very like, you you start rubbing your hands for more getting ready at the end of issue one. When I pitched this originally, I thought it was going to be a graphic novel.
And I didn't know what, I mean, that's kind of how, when I spoke with Mark Doyle about it, that's kind of like, you know, we're looking for, you know, see if we got any ideas for graphic novels. And then once they saw the pitch, they were like, oh, we assumed this was gonna be singles because it's broken up super well for chapters. Like this issue one's gonna be great. And we're like, oh, so I mean, they definitely were very excited about it when I gave them the outlines.
And it has been really fun. But Aaron, to also, touch back on what you were talking about for, it was like a big roundabout. You mentioned the idea of the facade of the familiar and getting at what's lying underneath. And another thing that always kind of crossed my mind about this was like blue velvet, was like David Lynch's blue velvet of having what seems like an ideal white picket fence community and just beneath is like the sort of really unseemly stuff.
And. I mean, that for sure was a big, that's kind of what I wanted to do with this, right? Getting at the, I mean, it's all about interiors. Like this whole book's all about interiors, about Sam's interior life. You get into issue three and it's scratching that surface, kind of also what you're talking about in terms of the world of Woodbrook and what else could be in there. I mean, there's a ton, obviously, that I could do with it.
And it is, you know, that issue three does sort of scratch the surface of like Sam kind of seeing beneath into somebody else's life, right? And it's and it's so strange and possibly sinister that she keys in on it, right? But I mean, the punchline is that like that's probably like there's lots of this probably all going on and that we, you know, we just haven't seen it yet. And that's why I find like, again, truly kind of addictive about this story is that.
Just like you mentioned in issue three, we see Sam, you know, go into melodies. Well, we won't spoil it too much. We see Sam uncover a truth. Sure, sure. But it's not necessarily a dangerous truth, but it's still an unknown truth that still holds weight in this community. And there's so many more characters that we're gonna find, I'm sure we're gonna find while this story continues, that have different layers of secrets.
Does that show right there that... really the main villain of the story is the unknown because once it's gone, once it's not even gone, once it's out there, the, the, the, what do you call this? The norm is shattered. I sure. I mean, I mean, I would go along with that idea of the, the unknown being the main villain. I mean, it's definitely the, it's what twists this town up and knots once the illusion of safety, et cetera, has been shattered, right?
And then you're slowly watching the town kind of just kind of, you know, come to a standstill because they really don't really understand how to operate within it. With that idea that like murders can happen now or like that, you know, whatever they thought was like anybody in town now could be a suspect and that it's so violent and there's just like a total lack of violence. And it's funny because like there's so much that you can lean on because it is this kind of story about community.
you're like, I mean, and I mentioned too, an issue too, that like a murder hasn't really happened in town for like over decades. And so it's just the idea that like not even a murder, but like a homicide, either intentional or unintentional. But it's just, yeah, it's definitely an element to it that like, they don't know who it is, but they know it could be anybody.
And then also, The just whatever is playing in their mind, I feel like is their biggest like an issue too, as well with like the character of Cherry Gherkins, who is sort of voicing like, you know, something maybe we've seen. But the the idea that like it's I mean, she's basically playing on that fear is anger thing. And it's and it's very much, you know, the unknown for sure. Well, so I have to kind of like do a sidestep of this unknown. like topic here.
And the thing that kind of like stood out to me that's unknown to me is there's this moment where Sam is in the woods and she's just finished doing things in the woods with, you know, I'll just say with a victim. And there's this bear, a non -anthropomorphic bear that kind of idles by. And there's like this moment, this meeting of the eyes moment. And it kind of got me to wonder, like, what's the difference between, you know, the anthropomorphic animals and the non -anthropomorphic animals?
Like, how does that kind of play into this? The total inspiration came from Richard Scarry's books and that he literally would have the animal people walking like dogs and stuff. And then also there is this there's a cover for one of the Busytown books where it's like a pig who's a butcher and has like sausage links and, you know, And you're just like, how does that work? How can that be? And I love the idea of this.
Why I lean so hard into it for issue three was it was just the concept of it all is like, are they questioning like what they're eating? Is this not a you know, but at the same time in the animal kingdom, like you have people, you know, there are not people, but like literally animals eating each other to survive. And then.
To sort of go further with that, the idea of like the cold bloodedness of nature, you know, also kind of working with the random cold bloodedness of Samantha and how she operates had this strange sort of parallel that I liked. And it very much sort of fed into all that stuff. Like having I loved the how it was very much like a goofy Pluto paradox, but at the same time played really well into unpacking, not unpacking, but like.
Creating these scenarios for readers to sort of chew on and stick have stick with them I'm a huge fan of any time you can in storytelling on any medium have Moments that stick with people and that aren't quite like easily digestible or just maybe even raise more questions Even if they aren't literal questions about a narrative, but just sort of philosophical ones Like that was my main goal with all of that and it felt like such a great mechanism to do that that I leaned into it.
And it comes back for sure. Like an issue five in particular, like there's a pretty heavy duty element of it. And so so, yeah, I mean, that was in a nutshell like what what I was what I was trying to do with it. There's no I mean, like, who knows, like, biologically why why this would happen or whatever. But I mean, like, I'm totally willing to entertain anything. Somebody has a theory about that. But but yeah, I mean, it just seems such like such a great opportunity.
I had to I had to lean into it. It is interesting, our like kind of our relationship with, you know, I guess like the animal kingdom in general, you know, like clearly we're at the top of the food chain, but how did we decide which animals we were going to domesticate and which animals were we going to? And it's cultural and all those things, right? Oh, yeah.
And then also, I mean, like another element to it is that it's so unnatural, like our day to day existence, how we like mass produce meat, how we get that into supermarkets and stuff like that. And like the. the connection to it is so strange at this point that it's like my my interaction with the animals that I eat is just in a package that you get at the grocery store. Right. And so I mean, personally, like I don't eat that many animals anymore.
And so like it's it's definitely like been a thing in my mind of like what you know what animals I do eat. And like personally, I felt I felt like it would be interesting to just eat the ones that I would consider like seeing in killing and then cooking. And then I was like, OK, that's my list of animals that I'll eat. And like, but I have a tough time, like looking at a cow and patting it on the head and then be like, I'm going to eat you.
And so but by the same token, like I also have friends that have hunt, you know, they hunt and et cetera. And I and I and that's cool with me. And they they're very much like, oh, yeah, you string them up. And I mean, that's like the gimbal thing that she uses in the woods is very much for deer. Yeah. And that's what you string their hooves up on and then and then sort of. drain them and gut them and et cetera. And so, and that just came from growing up in Iowa and whatever.
So anyway, but yeah, I mean, it's great stuff for, you know, sort of chewing on mentally and, and, and, and, you know, diving into and figuratively and figuratively. And I'm so happy that you brought up that scene because that scene with, you know, we, we, as we see Sam's, uh, I guess first victims that the reader see.
That scene was the one that just really just it's it's so hard to avoid what's almost what almost feels like a physical like two hands to your face saying look at this page you know or she she like just you know the the just the the the way that that scene plays out in the panels was so well done it's so like just visceral there are several scenes and i talk about like the the the meeting of the eyes between sam and the bear and this one with her victims. It just, it, I don't know.
It just sticks with you. And I'm, I'm like kind of obsessed with it. So I'll, I'll, I'll move on from there. But just. You're into one of our questions here in just a moment, actually. Aaron, why don't you go into the next question? Cause this is covering exactly that idea. Which is not me. This is not me. This what's what I'm.
So the, the follow up question is like, you know, like currently and actually for the last few years thinking about it, uh, the U S has kind of been obsessed with serial killers, you know, the nightly news documentaries, podcasts, our entertainment has been dominated by cold blooded murderers. It's really like the nineties. Where do you think this curiosity like comes from? And did that kind of help develop this for you? Or was it like a timing thing? Like how does that kind of all play in?
I mean, if I'm definitely somebody who's very, you know, obsessed with true crime serial killer. drama stuff. I feel like it's compelling in terms of me, would I be able to see myself being pegged as a victim? Like would I be able to see the signs and avoid being a victim? Which is why, I mean I mentioned before, but like when she grabs the duck student, like that's very much like me. I would be the duck student. thinking that I could help someone out.
And it's definitely like a Ted Bundy move of like, you know, just sort of the really friendly person in distress. And then, you know, just totally preying on the good Samaritan. And I feel like, especially if I could tell like, oh, yeah, I can get you up and running in like five minutes. Like, no big deal. And then I would get chloroform or whatever. The couch looks heavy. Yeah, exactly. So, but I feel like... That's part of it.
And then also, I think there's just a fascination with what this totally, you know, sort of amoral mindset is capable of, the way it operates. Like, I feel like all that stuff is very fascinating to me. This definitely isn't like the first time I've had somebody who's sort of a psychopath as a main character. And so like with other films and stuff I've worked on. So... the, you know, it's something I keep coming back to.
To me, it's also interesting to lean on all that and then have them be the main character. I felt like that would just be a really fun challenge. And so that was a big part of it, too, of like, you know, it's like, yes, like, you know, I mean, same thing with with Dexter, very specifically, like it's like that's such a challenge. I feel like that it would be so fun to dive into. So that's kind of why I did it. Did you need to do any kind of research or anything to kind of build?
Like I did a lot of serial killer research and I don't recommend it. It's very depressing. Patrick boyeristic at the stage of his life. Just looking up serial killers. I mean, it's mostly it was just like there was like I read through some compendiums of just like going over different serial killers through modern times and what they operate, how they operate, different psychological profiles of them. And I kind of sort of pieced together.
different elements for Samantha that I thought would make sense. And it's, you know, that the idea of control over sort of a chaotic world was a big part of it. And the idea of like sort of neutralizing somebody, turning them into parts instead of a person, you know, that was another scene. Yeah. The D the dehumanizing of elements of it all. Yeah, exactly. That's really important for her to be like, it's almost clinical. Right. And the way she kind of breaks down her victims and then kind of.
submerges them into this white pain or whatever. God, I'd love to see your search history. It's horrible. I feel like I feel like the NSA has be flagged and it's like is like, you know, is this a writer? Like, what's in there? Somebody put Patrick Horvath under questionable. I'm totally on a watch list. But I mean, I feel like a lot. There's probably a ton of writers like anybody, whoever like. I mean, you can find yourself Googling like the worst stuff.
And on top of that, too, I'm looking up a lot of like anatomical reference stuff for like interiors of bodies and stuff like that. And so it's just it's bad. But yeah. Well, and, you know, I think that we this kind of ties into again what Aaron was speaking on earlier, the era we grew up in. And I think there's like a lot of emphasis on the cute but scary from back in the day. You know, we're younger.
We had shows like You know, what was it like Goosebumps and Gremlins and Are You Afraid of the Dark? And like, it seemed like a lot of our entertainment was kind of like inherently, I almost said like fucked up, but there's a better way to put it. I think there's like even like the imagery, like I think of like Avril monsters and like things like that where like the imagery was purposefully against the norm. And it's almost like molded our, our creativity in today's world.
Like as adults, it's kind of molded us in that way. I mean, I'm definitely a big proponent of showing, you know, in children's entertainment, having darker stuff, only because that's how I grew up. And like all the stuff you just referenced, including like the never ending story. I mean, there's a lot of like weird messed up moments. I remember in movies that were like, that was messed up or even just like Willy Wonka and like the going through the tunnel scene in Willy Wonka.
And you were like, was that a chicken head getting caught on a bloody plane? I mean, it was so messed up and and just upsetting. But it's kind of it's definitely, you know, personally speaking, like molded me into the person that I am. And I see other stuff, though, coming out now where it's like, you know, like Coraline or Paranorman or, you know, there's a bunch of like really fun peripheral kind of creepy stuff that's still.
you know, children friendly, but is fun and getting getting closer and closer to sort of like more darker stuff to that. I feel like it's a tradition that's going to keep going. But I mean, you can dial it back further, like grim fairy tales like a lot further. And those are messed up. I mean, like I feel like all that sort of dark, spicy stuff was has been around forever. And the way that we process it is probably very I mean, maybe it's not for the best. But it's fun.
I feel like when the stuff that we told in a specific way to process as children, like especially like, you know, people my age and even older, you know, like because like fair, not fair, nursery rhymes, like a lot of nursery rhymes are sung about very dark things in history, ring around the rosy and, you know, like all these things that were meant to shield us. from the dark and the dreary. And I think that as, you know, like you said, Patrick, it's going to continue to change.
It's going to continue to kind of lean towards that darker side because we're starting to, I think as like a society, we're starting to understand that these like darker, not necessarily inhibitions, but these darker like feelings are not always bad. Like it's okay. It's okay to be kind of like a little bit darker, a little bit more emo, a little bit of a goth, you know? It's it's okay. It's cool. It's part, you know, but it's like, yeah, how far is it gonna go?
Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's definitely yeah, there's always too much. But I feel like I'm more I'm always inclined to sort of lean into it. And again, though, like I had a huge appetite for that stuff. Like, I loved it. And I think I love the idea of seeing how far I could go with it before I got creeped out and had to turn back. And there was something about it that was just really compelling to me, though.
Again, probably why I listened to the song Teddy Bear's Picnic and immediately thought it was like, oh, how sinister. Like, what are they doing? I feel like you relate to this statement, though. Like one thing that I've always kind of thought about and I think I've talked to you about this, Chris, in the past is there are these movies out there that just like like you said, like push the limits that push these boundaries of what we see at certain times in society as.
acceptably scary or acceptably obscene or acceptably violent, you know, and then you have the things that push that envelope to the break or push that line that, you pass the envelope, whatever, whatever cliche you want to call it. Things like human centipede, things like hostile, things like these movies like saw like things that like. And so for me, I've always kind of had this weird idea in my brain. It's something I've always thought about when these movies come up in conversation is.
as a quote unquote normal person is what we think is like a social norm. We say like, there are things that I will not talk about that I've thought of. There are things that have passed through my mind that I will not talk about because I guarantee you society, my friends, my circles, wherever, will not see it as sane, okay? Quote unquote sane.
What are these people who are creating these torture porn or like, psychotic movies, you know, human centipede, what do they think about that's too far for them to share with their circles? Like, that's kind of like where I wonder where, you know, like where this line is going. And I'm not saying anything about you, Patrick, I swear. But you talk about you talk about pushing that line.
And it's like, do you think we're going to get to that point where there's no longer a line and we're just sharing everything? Or I mean, obviously, there's already places for it, I'm sure. Yeah, well, there are. I mean, I'm sure there are. I don't even know. I mean, like for me, there's definitely stuff I'm not necessarily into, like transgressive cinema, say, where it's just like it feels like it's very much just exercise in how realistic we can make this violence.
And if there's nothing behind it other than that pursuit. or that exercise, like that's not necessarily appealing to me. But if you take something like Martyrs, which I don't know if you've ever seen Martyrs, that's a real hard watch. And at the same time, there's a philosophy behind it and I totally can appreciate what they're doing. Like the message of the movie works for me, right? And I feel like that, I've seen it once, I don't need to see it again. But that said.
Like I appreciate that movie for what it's doing in terms of like, you know pushing those boundaries I feel like really interesting transgressive media has some element to it that allows you know, the audience to sort of chew on that and then kind of illuminate like a larger profound concept And to me that that's totally like a valid thing But I feel like if it's yeah, I mean, I feel like there, you know, there's definitely boundaries or not really boundaries, but so much as like there's
it's all context. And so like if the context doesn't include some other larger discussion or whatever, and it's literally just the the icky thing, then I don't know. Like, I don't know what that is. Good word. You know, yeah, a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's exactly. Let's get back to Beneath the Tree. No, no, no, no, no. I see. I love this. This is totally awesome interview so far. Like I'm very much enjoying this conversation. So I mean, any other digressions by all means, please.
Well, you know what? Aaron knowing me, he's going to think, oh, Chris is going to tie it right back into what we're going to be talking about initially. And that's what I'm going to do right now. We're going to get back to Beneath the Trees because, you know, comics aren't just a fun medium. They're also a booming business. And the business is good right now for. Beneath the Trees, because it is critically and commercially hitting good, right? And as of this recording, yeah, very successful.
As of this recording, the first printing of issue one is going anywhere between 60 to $80 on the aftermarket. And I think I just saw a CGC 9 .8 just sold for $249 on February 11th. So my question for you, Patrick, is as the creator of this series, why do you think Beneath the Trees has the spec market going so crazy? Yeah, that is an excellent question. If we could figure out exactly what happened here and to replicate that, that would be wonderful.
I mean, like, listen, guys, I'm like supremely grateful for how well this has all been received. Like I had no expectations at all, because like I mentioned, I mean, I just don't. This is very new to me. This is my first book that's been all mine. So it's like it's it's not. There's no I have no experience in terms of like going through this. That said, I mean, I've heard someone had reached out to me on Instagram who I actually remember his handle right now.
But we worked that he works at a comic shop in Winnipeg, and he's a really nice guy. And he mentioned this. That's awesome theory that I've kind of been basically running with in my head in terms of how this has been going. Is that like because I am an unknown, it wasn't a huge. retail order, right? I mean, nobody nobody knew what the book is going to be like. Nobody's really read any of my stuff. I haven't even had that much stuff to read. You know what I mean?
And so when it did go out, like, thankfully had a, you know, these coattails to ride from like stray dogs from Tony Fleece, right. And which was very big on the speculator market. And I feel like thanks to honestly the work that that book did, people sort of put this. book, put beneath the trees into that sort of same kind of category. And I feel like that sort of speculator interest started driving up the sales.
And then once that happened, like because it wasn't like a huge printer order, we sold out issue one, like pretty fast. And so then and then issue two. And now we're on the third printing, which is incredible. And then also the success of issues have also enjoyed like selling out. So I mean, It's one of those things where it's like, I feel like it thanks to that interest and then also thanks to the critical praise that it's been getting so far, which I'm super thankful for.
And also just, I mean, just anybody reading it that's reached out to me has, you know, been really favorable and the things they have to say about it. And it's just been really, you know, I think a lot of that stuff kind of just kind of piled together. And like I said, I'm sort of. you know, still pinching myself because this has been incredible so far. I mean, I hope it keeps continuing. But, you know, it's you know, at the same time, I don't have any I'm not taking anything for granted.
I'd love to walk you through my experience of of picking up this book. If you don't mind. This is me on my phone and I'm scrolling and it's my weekly FOC from my comic shop. And I'm like, OK, cool, cool. Don't want that. Oh. beneath the trees, okay, it's a bear dragging a bloody bag. The fuck is this? Looks good. And then I got it and I was hooked, you know? And like from there, like I had no idea, just from the cover alone, I was like, this is crazy looking and I need to read this.
And I think that that's I'm glad to hear that. I, again, Chris will tell you, I'm like, I'm the newer of us in the group to comic reading. I've only been doing it a couple of years and mostly I collect for the art, but - This one just caught my attention immediately. And again, like I'll tell you from issue one, it's like it is who everybody that's listening right now, if you are on the fence at all, you have to pick. They're not going to be able to. You won't.
There's no way they can pick it up. Yeah. I mean, issue one, issue one, issue one, third printing should be hitting, hitting shops very soon. I was smart enough to get a lucky enough, not smart enough. I was smart enough. I was smart enough. You're welcome. So I know next time I see Patrick or first time I see Patrick in person, I'm getting that bitch signed and graded. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Patrick, I want to, I want to, I'm so glad that you said to that word of mouth.
I was going to challenge you slightly based on the, the, uh, the Tony fleece, uh, stray dogs, kind of like, uh, writing of coattails, cause that could be true possibly. But I truly think it is word of mouth. I have not seen anyone not just absolutely sing its praises. And I'm not just saying this because you're right here in front of us right now, you know, in circles, you know, looking at people's top, you know, top comics list, you're on our top, you know, top 23 comic lists.
And that is so across the board. I know you're you're like a very humble person and we appreciate that. It truly is, I think, just the like the true word of mouth. People like getting excited about this and then. Of course, some people in the spec market going, why is that book selling out so well? We need to grab all the ones we can get. And, you know, that probably played into it as well. It definitely I mean, I appreciate all that.
And I think that it yeah, I mean, it's and I mentioned Tony Fleece and Straight Dogs only because it it was that that was kind of what primed the pump, so to speak.
And and then and then the book did what it did, which, as you mentioned, like, I mean, I've enjoyed a very strong word of mouth from all the people that not all that I mean, like a lot of the people that have read it and which is also just like, you know, I mean, like, man, nothing warms your heart better than to come up with something and then put it out in the world and have folks, you know, really latch onto it only because to it's like, I mean, I'm not gonna say all artists and creators are
like this, but I definitely am very much like, is this any good? I don't know. Like, I don't know. Here it is. And then you just sort of put it out is the best you can do. I mean, and I would say all artists are like that. And I feel like that's just what that is. I feel like I myself, I'm always going to feel that way. I mean, I should also preface all that with like I have an editorial team and they are excellent. I lean on them a ton to help steer me in the right way.
And and it's worked out splendidly. Right. And they're very much all the time like this is great. This is yes. Awesome. This art looks incredible. They're very complimentary. And I also feel, though, that it's like, as a good editor, it's also kind of like you're a therapist. And so I feel like it's, you know, that's part of the job. So I'm like, yes, it's kind of like mom saying, you know, good job and putting your stuff on the refrigerator. And so, which is great.
But it keeps you going to the next page, right? But like, yeah, it's you never know until you put it out in the wild. And it's been overwhelming. It's been really overwhelming, like the best way that kind of ties into what is essentially Patrick, our last question for you. And, you know, we kind of talked about a little bit before, but I need you to put that humbleness to the side just for a moment.
And I need you to explain why, in your honest opinion, you think readers have responded so strongly to Sam and her tail. But, you this tail behind her, her murderous secret. Sure. I mean, I feel like I mean, the I mean, the. The strategy behind the whole thing was to, and I sort of alluded to this earlier when you're talking about how you're going to get people to care about a serial killer, is to make it as universal as possible.
And the best way I could do that is just to have an existential threat, which is honestly the thing I keep coming back to in everything I've ever written. It's just like, how do I take the thing that everybody sort of defines themselves by and then turn it on its head? And then now we're watching them squirm. And so that's exactly what that was, which I feel like coming out of the pandemic, everybody in the whole planet just had happened.
And so, you know, that I think that's why it's compelling. But I would say this, too, there's something fun about rooting for a bad guy. And so if you can have like a bad guy and like a worse bad guy or something like that, then you know, to me, that's like so I'm like. pulling up my chair, eating the popcorn. Like, I can't wait to see how the one, what the bad guy is going to do to the other bad guy. Is he going to be how bad I am? I don't know. And so that, and like the gloves are off.
And so it's just kind of a fun, I think that's part of it, you know? And then also kind of to Aaron's point earlier too, and the idea of like, you know, bedroom drama, right? Of like, what is not literally bedrooms, but I mean, like what's going on behind closed doors and people's homes. And the idea that like everybody's weird. All of us, me, you, everybody here. We're all weird.
And there's something to that, that sort of essentially like acknowledging that in this story is another compelling element to it that I think is making people sort of, you know, very interested in it. I mean, that said, too, I had these like when I set out to make this, I wanted to make it, first of all, like fun. I wanted it to be fun. I also wanted it to be. like really upsetting, like in terms of like the violence, right?
I didn't want the violence to be necessarily like - and upsetting, you know, that'll just not - Mission accomplished. I wanted the violence to be as grounded as I could make it to help offset how cute everything was. And then the cute part was like another thing that I was really aiming for. So it was like fun, upsetting and cute. And then also I really wanted to make it sad, like as sad as I could when it needed to be.
And just like really lean in and so like grounded violence very fun Really cute and also really sad and I think that I mean because that's what I would want to watch I respond super well to any sort of storytelling where it It's being earnest when it needs to be and then also is having a lot of fun when you have the chance to do that And especially in like really even sad sort of bleak stuff if you can put any levity in that It just works so well.
Like, anyway, so that I've been very focused on trying to balance those those elements. And and I mean, I mean, hopefully that's what's kind of working for everybody. You actually just described Aaron and like what he puts on his resume. Cute, fun and sad. That's that's him. People people bring him in for interviews like, so I see here you're cute, fun. Oh, and you're sad. Perfect. You're the perfect guy for the job. I feel attacked exposing Aaron here on the podcast.
No, I actually I have one more question. I got to I got to throw this out there. Was the was the and people have obviously had the chance to read issue one. So this isn't we've talked about it also. It's not a spoiler. Is there any chance that the murder of the first duck was kind of a middle finger to Disney? Oh, no, not really. OK, why did I pick the duck? I don't. I mean, a giant mouth. I'm not going to say I'm not going to say it wasn't like subconsciously. I mean, maybe.
But I mean, it's it's a there's something wholesome about like an orange billed white duck. And maybe that's because of Donald Duck. So I mean, like. Maybe, but it wasn't intentional, definitely wasn't intentional, totally subconscious if it was. It just felt like such a horrible thing to do. And plus having the bloody all over the white feathers and stuff just felt. thing to do.
Yeah, I gotta say like that is, you know, we keep going back to the these these shocking moments that like stick with you in this book. And I know we've already mentioned it, but it's like you said, that part where she is just where Sam is just meticulously and methodically, you know, taking apart this duck. And it's just like it's a cartoon duck. And then part of its brain is just exposed. And it just has this it just has it's this this panel is just so.
I don't, it's so hard to explain because it's just like this cartoon duck and then it's just like such a realistic. Like you looked at diagrams you said of like this portion of its brain and you're just like. I tried to make it as anatomically correct as I could. It was such, it was so phenomenal though.
And I don't mean to keep like, you know, bolstering you up, but I'm just saying that you have these panels that are just like, if you, when you read this book, when people read this book are just going to stick with them.
And I could tell why it's gonna continue to be successful, because you've obviously done your homework and you're obviously putting in like realism and this like cartoonish like world and like smashing it together and kind of destroying what people are, like their expectations of what a storybook town can be. And it's phenomenally done. So like, I just gotta say, well done on that, you know? I really appreciate all that. Thank you so much. It's definitely, yeah, that's the.
That's the cute, fun, sad, disturbing thing I was aiming for. You know what, Patrick? I thought it was just fine. I thought it was just a fine comic. It wasn't good, not bad, just fine. Totally middle of the road. It was fine. No, I'm kidding. Wow. Does anybody want to buy a first issue of Beneath the Tree? Beneath the Tree is what nobody sees. Anyways, Patrick, we've taken up enough of your time. Thank you so much for being here.
We definitely want to have you back when, you know, in the future, talk about future issues or even when the trade releases and then we can actually talk full spoilers, talk about the story in full. It would be such an honor to have you back on here, especially future projects as well. So is there anything that you want to talk about before you go, before we end this? I mean, we had a bunch of stuff that I have not talked before about, and it's been a pleasure.
I mean, yeah, I just wanted to say thank you again. for having me on every opportunity I get to talk about it is is wonderful. And also, I mean, I've been listening to you guys for a while, so it's it's fun to actually be joining on and and to be able to tell you that in person. So, you know, excellent work to you, too. We'll never get used to that, by the way. We'll never ever get used to that. Anytime somebody says they listen to the show, I'm like, wow, really?
Because I thought I just edited it. I mean, I'll tell you what, it's definitely. Excellent.
Like these interviews with creators have been invaluable to me as a creator, because it any opportunity you can listen to somebody just talking about like what the what what the process is, what the you know what the intention is, how the you know, working through stuff in terms of story, how you're breaking that down, how it's working, how it's being received like all those elements to it are just a giant.
question mark and like having stuff like this where you hear creators talk about it is just so great. It was actually a double edged sword. It's a double edged sword because Chris and I are both writers. Chris is working on his own comic as well. So a lot of this is honestly like as much as we love talking to creators, it's also to it's a selfish, you know, it's a very selfish trip and journey because we're doing research for our own futures in creating stuff.
So, but again, it's also also The other aspect of it is just getting to talk to like awesome people, not just creators, but you're a person before you're a creator and to hear like what you've gone through and what you're going, what's going on in your life and how you're kind of reacting to this, you know, successful, uh, you know, journey that you're on, like all of that, just it, it feeds us. It makes us feel good because we can, we can tell you and give you more praise and build you up.
So we love, we love all that. Well, it's much appreciated. All right, Patrick, before Aaron keeps going rogue, I'm going let you get out here. Thank you so much for being here. We will see you the next time we have you on the show, which hopefully is, you know, very, very soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would love to. I would 100 percent love to, especially if we can talk after the trade or whatever. That would be great. Perfect. All right. We'll see you soon.