INTERVIEW: Matt Fraction & Michael Allred

Hey, this is Matt Fraction. We are the creative team of Marvel's FF. And the first issue of the Minor Threats spin-off, Welcome to Twilight. and you are listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast. Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 186 of the oblivion bar podcast. I am Chris hacker one of your co-hosts here this week I am alone.

No Aaron Knowles here this week, but that's okay because I basically I'm just here to quickly prompt you for this episode which I mean we're joined by two of I mean two bona fide legends in the comic book medium We were joined by Matt fraction and Michael already to discuss their first issue of welcome to Twilight over at Dark Horse This is in the minor threats universe created by Pat and Oswald Jordan Blum and Scott Hepburn

And what an absolute pleasure, what an absolute honor it was to have both both Matt and Michael on the show to discuss this first issue. Yeah, we talked about it in the conversation, but this is the first time that Matt and Michael have collaborated on a series together since 2012, that iconic FF run over there at Marvel. And it was such a pleasure to get them both here on the show to discuss this first issue of Welcome to Twilight.

What I love about the Minor Threats universe, what Patton and Jordan and Scott have sort of Curated over at the Dark Horse universe is that they have brought in some of the best talent across the entire medium some very unique and distinct voices not only with writing but also of course with the interiors and coloring Nate Picos is lettering this book Laura are red coloring this first issue of welcome to Twilight So it's an all-star team top to bottom.

But as many people know what you'll hear in this conversation Michael specifically is a kind of a bucket list guest for me here on the podcast. He of course was the artist of one of my all time favorite runs. We talked about it in this conversation of Silver Surfer with him and Dan Slott. And Michael, think is just easily one of the most interesting people in the comic book world. He's really big into Star Wars. He's really, he's a fan.

I mean, I was going to try to elaborate on kind of why he is so interesting, but if you were to just listen to him talk or follow him on social media or just know him as a creator, as a fan, he is one of us, one of us, one of us. That's Michael Allred. He is also besides that one of the most talented people in the medium. One of the most, again, one of the most singular voices in the medium's history.

I mean, you know, when you see a piece from Michael already, so such a pleasure to have him on the show. And then of course, Matt fraction, who again, we talked about it in the conversation, but Matt has sort of been away from the medium for a bit.

You know, he's been working over in Hollywood, both on Hawkeye and the legacy of monsters, Apple TV plus that's the monarch series over on Apple TV plus and I feel particularly very grateful to get Matt on the show because I know he doesn't do a ton of interviews either.

And, you know, there's been a lot of hoopla about Matt here recently, not only because of the Hawkeye TV series over on Disney plus from a couple of years ago, but also he was recently announced to be the next upcoming writer after chips at RCA on Batman coming up in September. And of course, me being who I am, I had to ask him about it. And he gives a really interesting response to my question about his upcoming Batman run because You know, this is we're still many months away.

Everybody were, you if you're listening to this in the future, we're recording this in March. His run with Jorge Jimenez doesn't even come out until September. So there's really not much that he can talk about. But when I sort of try to press him, his response is hilarious. It's one of my favorite interactions in the history of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

And to get both of these gentlemen on the show and I think I may even say in the conversation, but if I were to get one of them on the show, it would have been a benchmark in the show's history. But to get them both on at the same time. to discuss their careers, to discuss the minor threats universe, to discuss Silver Surfer, to discuss Batman, all the things. It's just a, it's a true highlight in the history of the Oblivion Bar podcast.

And along with that, at the end of this conversation, we premier a brand new segment that I think we're just going to do from now on with these interviews. It's a really fun sort of interaction. I don't want to spoil anything here. I'm just going to wait till you guys get to it, but I will say that it turned out really great with both Michael and Matt. So I want to continue it on going. into the future with other interviews. So tune in for that. I'll stop talking here.

Quick, shameless plug everybody. If you want to support the oblivion bar podcast, you can do that over at patreon.com forward slash oblivion bar pod. A lot of great tiers. You can try out the patron for seven days for free. See if you like it. Everything that you send us goes right back into the oblivion bar podcast. we're very transparent about everything that we do with the support of the podcast. So, and actually part of that fun new segment that we premier here with both Matt and Michael.

what you guys send us over on Patreon contributes to that. again, I keep teasing it. We'll get into it here, but yeah, anyway, patreon.com forward slash a billion bar pod. If you want to support the show in a freeway, wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, your favorite comic book podcasts on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you can review and share the show, follow all those things that helps five star reviews, written reviews, all those things.

You have no idea how much that helps the show and its reach both on those platforms. It's sort of annoying that we have to constantly ask you guys to rate and review the show. But unfortunately, that's how Apple podcasts and Spotify recommend their shows. So if you want to help support common podcast, any podcast, that's a great way to do it. So enough shameless plugs. Let's go ahead and get into this conversation with Matt Fraction and Michael already.

And now, this week's special guest. Joining me today on the Oblivion Bar podcast are the creative team of the new minor threats for issue anthology, or at least the first issue of the anthology, Welcome to Twilight. One is the Eisner and Harvey Award winning writer behind titles like Adventure Man, Odyssey, November, Sex Criminals, all over Image Comics.

You may also know his Marvel work with extended runs on The Invincible Iron Man, Mighty Thor, Hawkeye, The Immortal, Iron Fist, and the 2011 event Fear Itself. He was also one of the co-creators and writers of the recent Monsterverse television series, Monarch, Legacy of Monsters over at Apple TV Plus. And he is the upcoming writer of the new Batman Number One with artist Jorge Jimenez over at DC Comics.

The other is an Eisner winning creator behind titles like I, Zombie, Superman, Space Age, Batman, Dark Age, and the creator of the fan favorite, Madman. He is also one part of one of my personal favorite comic runs of all time. the 2014 to 2017 run on Silver Surfer with rider Dan Slott. It is my pleasure to welcome both Matt Fraction and Michael Allred onto the Oblivion Bar podcast. Hey everybody.

You guys can't see Mike right now, but he is basically laying on his stomach and doing it was like gymnastics. What was that there, An aerobics work, it's not work. Yeah. Also, the ambiance here is insane. All three of us have very particular. I think nobody gets. Well, I am going to split some of this up into like reels and possibly even put on YouTube. That's OK with you, But. Matt, you and I, we have a similar aesthetic here. We've got just a bunch of literature behind us.

But Mike, my gosh, man, you have an incredible audience. Yeah, you got a little bit of literature back there. Yeah, actually everywhere. But and the audience is right. It looks like it looks like the 70s disco floor is perfect. I love it so much. It's chef's kiss. And hey, and the Space Ghost shirt. Rest in peace, George. It was a bummer this morning. what happened this morning? George died the voice of space goes from space goes coast to coast passed away.

Give me a good excuse to watch some of my favorite space goes coast to coast this morning. Lips and episodes and following the ant for 10 minutes is I'm going to follow this ant killer. I'm going to find out where he lives and kill his family. And then he follows the ant for 10 minutes bent over.

And then giant ants come out and he runs away goes your son's a loser That voice is so synonymous with, and I'm going show my age here a little bit, is so synonymous with my childhood, sort of growing up during that age of Cartoon Network, where those were often in syndication, those old, you know, well, I guess the newer Space Coast, Coast to Coast and all that. So, wow, what a loss.

And, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to very terribly transition from that and go into my first question here, which very icebreaker-esque type of question. It's actually for both of you as well. And Mr. Albright, I'm going to start with you. What's it like being the second most talented comic creator in your home? Yeah, Laura is my not-so-secret weapon and it's choice. It's the best of all worlds.

All my motivation is to make her happy and because she's given me everything, know, our offspring. Yeah, I'm so, so grateful to have her talent back me up. Yeah. And obviously this is our first time meeting, just in all the conversations that I've heard through podcast or written interviews, what have you, you never miss an opportunity to shout out Laura. So 100%. Uh, Matt, how about you being of course, again, the second most talented person in your home as well. What's that like?

I would probably put it at third or fourth. It's humbling. It's nice to have goals and ambitions. Always keep reaching. They keep you grounded, right? They make sure that you always have something to strive for and I can appreciate that. Yeah, absolutely. Well, obviously that is a huge joke. Although I do think they're all very talented. You both are also bonafide giants in the medium and I'm so happy to have you here on the Oblivion Bar.

And I think the main reason why you're here today outside of the obvious is to talk about Welcome to Twilight, which is the first issue in a brand new anthology in the Minor Threats universe from writers Patton Oswalt, Jordan Blum and Scott Hepburn. Other creators in this Welcome to Twilight anthology include Brian Michael Bendez, Sue Lee, Gail Simone, Gene Ha, Jerry Dugan, Mark Torres.

And this first issue from YouTube Fine Gentlemen centers around Benjamin Brockowicz, a washed up winged, bird, I say bird winged actor who was never a superhero, but he once played one on television. And that was also a long time ago. And just as he's about to fade into obscurity and sort of give up on his normal life, someone pops into his life and reminds him that life is worth living. So after reading that first issue here, I got a advanced look, thankfully. Shout out to Dark Horse for that.

And while preparing for this conversation, I was burning on how to ask this question in more of a romantic way, and I just couldn't find it. So I'm just gonna put it bluntly, and Matt, I'm gonna start with you here. How did you get in touch with the Minor Threats team? How did they pitch this idea to get you guys, both you and Michael, on board? And when did Brock become that tangible idea that you guys were going to focus on in this first issue?

They got in touch with me but with the offer of like you and Mike want to do an issue and they had me at Mike right so that was just right you know I mean I I think minor threats is terrific and I really enjoyed it and I don't know that I would have said yes if it wasn't Mike just there's always that fear and feeling of like it's always a privilege to wreck one of your favorite things but but I would never ever turn down an opportunity to work with Mike again so

So that was kind of it right away. And it happened right as I left Monarch. So I was sort of like, had been in the world of TV and then suddenly was not. I was like, God, what am I gonna do with myself? And so like immediately had a thing to do, which was great. And the idea had been kicking around in my head for a little while. It's just something about the idea of a guy with giant wings that didn't work because he didn't have bone mass of a bird or muscle mass of a bird.

He was a 230 pound man with giant wings on his back. They were just kind of props, you know. And it's sort of something about, there's a little bit of it in Superman's Pal, Jim Eelson, where I had the idea of Hawkman on a Segway. And it just made me laugh. Like that was how he had to get around on a Segway or like in a pickup truck. Because like, how can you lay down? He has to sleep in a bathtub and can't roll over because you can crush yourself.

You can't sleep with anyone because you could smother them. You know, it just like it just all these this kind of idea of a guy with wings that didn't really work, had been around for a while and Hawkman on a Segway was this kind of the start of it and sort of then the idea of like, well, this would kind of fit in that minor threats world, what would their superhero, what is a superhero movie like in a world full of superheroes and on and on. And then it just kind of came together.

And I have a certain fondness for old police shows, like old cop shows for the seventies and the eighties. And it all just kind of, you know, the idea of someone that can't tell the difference between a guy who, between a detective and a guy who played a detective on TV. And I don't know, it all just kind of. There it was, you know, I sort of, said yes, I was like, shit, what have I done? I figure something out.

And had like one idea, I can't even remember, I can't remember what it was now, but I sort of like just pitched it as a sentence and they're like, that's kind of like a similar thing. Like, okay, I should pull out, I don't have anything. And then just there it was, like the whole thing, the whole story just fell into my lap. And knowing that I was writing for Mike made it easy. Yeah, seems like a pretty easy decision, right? When you have Michael already attached to. That was easiest decision.

Well, Michael, I'm going to pitch it over to you here. was it Dark Horse? Was it the Minor Threats team? Was it Matt? Who came to you in order to knock out this first issue of Welcome to Twilight? Well, Daniel Chabon has been my go-to guy at Dark Horse for quite a while now, and he always brings fun ideas. There's always a door wide open for that. He's just somebody that the answer is almost always yes. And so... When he began to ask me of my interest in this project, it was, yes, yes, yes.

One of my all time favorite projects I've ever worked on was FF. So many of my Marvel dreams came true because of Matt. And the opportunity to work with him again was a dream come true. And I've also been a huge fan of Patton Oswald from day one. I remember when Janine Garofalo introduced him on a comedy special. And I've just always been impacted by everything he's done ever since. But really, any of those three reasons would have been a yes for me.

But truly, sincerely, working with Matt again is the be all end all. Now, correct me if I'm wrong here. Is this the first time you guys have gotten back together since FF? Like, what was it? 2014? I think is when that that final issue was. Yeah, yeah, I that's incredible. And again, you guys have both been seeing the prizes of that second volume of FF.

And I think if you were to pull 10 pull list holders at your local comic shop right now, would imagine that most of those folks would have good to great things to say about that series as well. I will say that, Matt, when you were talking a moment ago about sort of the inspiration of like older cop shows and sort of how this idea sort of percolated in your head, I was getting a little bit of like a...

And you could tell me if I'm way off base here, but I was getting a little bit of, you know, big Lebowski, I'm just here for the ride type of vibe to this woman shouldn't be interested in me, but I'm not complaining type of vibe akin to like the hard goodbye from Sin City. And maybe even like a little bit of like, I don't know, dark humor from like the nice guys. Am I way off base here with some of these?

I think more of a case I was probably pulling from all the places those guys were pulling, you know, the same kind of thing of not really a cop, not really a detective. Why is this daemon to me? I mean, those are all kind of classic sort of setups. And the humor was just like so much of minor threats is that and to be able to do something and like to steer into the jokes and...

And also that it was just a one shot, like not a lot of time to be prosaic and ponderous and just sort of like, I suspect it was a case of parallel inspirations. I'm trying to remember if any like specific deliberate references or anything like that. That was my next question for you was like, were there any particular, you know, and I kind of hate that question, especially in these conversations. There's a there's a there was like a one. think it lasted one season.

There's like a Jack Palance detective show called Bronk, which is where the name came from. At least just the nickname. But him like changing it from Bronkowitz to Bronkman. That was probably a Kentucky Fried movie. You know what mean? Like like just Bronkowitz is probably. I don't know that it was deliberate, but like now that I think like, you know, but like the idea of changing it. for equity, which is that dumb shit, you know? That name reminded me of you.

I've been trying to figure out what that name at Kentucky Fried Movies. Samuel L. Bronkowitz presents. I think the real inspiration there was a real actor of a certain caliber of films with a manager very much like Swiftie and Bronk that were notorious on the convention circuit through the 90s and the 2000s. And I had done shows with them both when I was working retailer and then as a kind of nascent creator.

And just every time they were at a show, there were gonna be two or three stories about the crazy stuff they got up to. So that was in my head of like, I can do those stories here, you know? Well, I really tapped into the Miami Vice of things. know, the... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... The... was a Miami Vice reference. was the name of the guy who killed Tubbs' brother was called.

Yeah, I love the whole Hollywood aspect of it too and then him having to have the his own tram car to drive around. And of course the segue and but yeah, I love I love the whole coastal vibe in that and and then of course, you know, the surprise ending. I have an affinity for those creatures as well. And then there's the one main character, which I just laugh every time I hear Matt describe him. And so I'm not even gonna try, but I'm so thrilled that I got to put that on paper.

Now, real quick, because I know exactly what you're talking about here, Michael. Can I say it? I want to stay relatively spoiler free because this first issue does come out on March 12th. So I want people to be able to read this and enjoy. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be actually be out the week that we put this conversation out. We have our copies, so I assumed it was in the stores. No, yeah, it's officially out the Wednesday of this conversation. So I don't want to spoil anything big.

Well, and of course, Matt has his his physical copy there. Can I get permission here to say the person you're talking about here? so we have Manface, right? And he's the man. with the face of a man on his face. Hahaha It's perfect. It is like I read that line and listen, I've been a fan of the medium for the majority of my life and I find a lot of things pretty funny, but I'm one of those kind of people that like laughs inside. Right.

I legitimately chuckled to myself when I read the man with the face of a man on his face. Right. Like that is just the funniest thing ever. And then you have is it Manuel Manuel is the actual. Yeah, he's the little face on the. Yeah, well, big face, big face. Yeah, Sort of a Master Blaster relationship. Master was a part of Blaster. And Manuel just kind of like, yes, Manuel, yes. it kind of remind me of the little total recall. What's the the?

Quanto, yeah, Quanto from total recall a little bit of that. I will say that like. some young Frankenstein. sure. Yeah. I will say that like the oddball friendship between Bronc and Swifty is really endearing because you can tell that they've been through it and it's so, it's so well done based on just the dialogue alone. We only get about, what is it? 22 pages with these two, 26 pages with these two.

22. Yeah, 22. And it's insane because you, feel that love immediately between the two and how they definitely get on each other's nerves. undoubtedly. Right. Yeah. And there's definitely, yeah, there is like a little bit of I can't succeed unless you succeed and I'm going to sort of drain you until I can't anymore a little bit. But we've all had people like that in our lives where you sort of accept them for who they are and you still love them for it.

And I think you guys do that really well with these two characters in this first issue. It's also a treat, mean, just bonus tapping into the rest of the universe. We've got this little chunk that we're really proud of, but it echoes out and I'm discovering, mean, not just Patton's work, but everybody else that's involved in that whole Minor Threats universe. it's the gift that keeps on giving. 100%.

Yeah. And, know, when the minor threats universe first sort of kicked off, I know as a comic reader, I was a tad apprehensive because every once in a while, and I'm going to speak broadly here, every once in a while you get celebrities that want to come into comics and do a co-writing deal and you're like, no, what are they, you know, they're bored or exactly. Absolutely. Patton is the real deal. And we've had him on the show.

had both him and Jordan on the show to talk about that very first issue of minor threats back when it came out. And you could just tell when he talks about it. And Michael, just like you were saying earlier, and I'm assuming Matt as well, we're all giant fans of Patton and his work. think specifically of like the joke about having a Green Lantern ring and demanding it at the White House.

But just because you like something in a book doesn't mean you can have the thing you like in the book happen in real life. That's what crazy people want. I can't go to the White House with a bunch of Green Lantern comics and go, I want a Green Lantern ring. I it in a book I like! Make the thing in the book I like be here, now!

And was so refreshing to hear him talk about this series and now the execution with not only the first two volumes, but the multiple spin-offs with the alternates and then this of course, and then the brood like Barfly. also, know, I'm name dropping over here now, but we had Kyle Starks and Ryan Brown on the show as well to talk about Barfly. And my gosh, is this, this universe is just chock full of some of the best creators in the industry.

There was an Archie crossover which I got to draw a lot of those characters, including Barfly, with Archie Comics characters running at each other. So it's been a blast. Obviously, we're crazy busy. There's always so many things on our plate. it can be really difficult to... So saying yes can be hard. It can be a challenge, but... I'm so grateful that we were able to squeeze this in because it's just such a kick.

Well, Matt, we're going to sort of transition away from Welcome to Twilight because again, that first issue comes out on March 12th I don't want to get into too many spoilers because again, think folks- Check that out. Brian and Sue's issue is fantastic as well. That one, issue two is fabulous. And I've heard about Jerry's and I can't wait to read Jerry's. and look, it's a murderous row of folks. It'll all be great. I will second that 100%.

I heard you, Matt, I can't remember when I heard you talk about this, but you talked about how like certain comic writers, you'll read certain works and you sort of just vibe with their monologue and the way they write. And Brian is that for me, I think from a very early age, when I picked up Ultimate Spider-Man for the first time, I just knew immediately that BNB was going to be my guy going forward. And he has continued that trend into my 30s now.

And Sue Lee. Talk about an undiscovered genius in the medium. She is going to be huge, everybody. you're not tracking Sue Lee, again, good friend of the show, we've had her and Sweeney Boo on the show together. If you're not tracking Sue Lee and her work, get on it, because she is incredible. Not only as an artist, but also as a writer as well. So keep those both on your radar. And Matt, want to transition over to you really quick here.

It's no secret, obviously, that you've been away from the medium for a while. You were talking about it a little bit earlier. And as we said in the intro, you were busy with The Legacy of Monsters, you were a consultant on Hawkeye over on Disney Plus as well. Obviously that took huge inspiration from yours and David's run from back in the day. But now you're back here with comics.

And, of course it was announced a few weeks ago that in September you will be working with the annoyingly handsome Jorge Jimenez on the... It's, it's, yeah, like seriously, it's not even fair that we have two of you guys in this medium. One more and we'll just implode. think that's kind of the deal. I'm pretty sure. But you know, you guys will be the new creative team on Batman going forward. And this is my one and only annoyingly, our annoying Batman question for the entire conversation.

I'm just going to knock it out here. Along with this announcement, you guys have a new blue and gray suit. You've got a new bat Batmobile, fresh and new is sort of the thrown around saying throughout this. much as an 88 year old character can be fresh and new? Yes, absolutely. Right, exactly. So all that said, again, without spoilers, without any spoilers, I'm assuming you can't say anything anyway. And this is sort of a big question, so I apologize.

Are there any unchangeable staple qualities or challenges often faced that you believe are at the core of your Batman going into September? Are you at liberty to say. But I'm not gonna. I mean, I'm not interested in throwing out. There's a reason the character is 90 years old or whatever. I'm not interested in getting rid of the stuff that makes Batman Batman. Martha and Thomas Wayne aren't secretly alive or anything like that. That doesn't work.

Man's not going to bust out an Uzi and just start shooting people. That's not going to happen. Yeah, no, there's there's there's there's core. load-bearing parts of the mythos that like shouldn't be meddled with and it wouldn't be Batman if I wanted to do that I'd make something else up but now the challenge is writing Batman so yeah. Can I press you a little bit, just a tag here? can try.

Is there one defining thing that you really love about Batman that you feel like you want to sort of articulate in nonspecific ways in your run? No, I want to articulate them all in specific ways. It's the coolest super-he's the coolest superhero, period, full stop. it's Batman 316 was the first comic I ever remember reading, in fact. Go back to the bookcase. Get it right there. mean, like this, is literally the book that brought me in.

And I want to write a Batman comic that reminds everybody why Batman's the coolest. He's the coolest hero. He's got the coolest villains. He's got the coolest stuff. He's got the coolest sidekicks. He's got the coolest city, the coolest car. Like I'm, I'm very much interested in writing superhero Batman fighting super crime against super criminals and you know, like the blue and the gray says it more than anything, any words I can, like, that's it.

Like if you see it and you get it, like that's it. If you see it, you see the blue and the gray and like, oh, it's the blue and the gray. That's exactly what I'm trying to do. And like people love it or they'll hate it, I think. And we'll find out real fast. Right. Like, yeah. But it's it's definitely he's not been in the blue and the gray for a long time. So, you know, but that's that's that's it. I, you know, I want to build on everything that's.

come before but make a book that's about the best superhero there is, right? There's a reason why that character can sustain so many different takes and interpretations. Like, it's really, you can do a lot with him. He's the most flexible character in comics, in my opinion, right? Like he can live in so many different worlds. And elongated man, depending on where your mileage is. And Michael, you're actually you're doing Batman right now, too. You're with Mark Russell doing the Dark Age.

I finished it. We're on Wonder Woman Golden Age now. That is incredible. That we're doing the Trinity. I didn't know that you're also we're doing Wonder Woman. That's incredible. Yeah, mean, we're I mean, we officially have a trilogy, but I'm kind of hoping we'll be able to do Justice League New Age after this. So we'll see what happens. Mike, I would chop my left hand off to see you getting to do flash, especially with Mark. Like you and and Mark Russell doing a flash thing.

I would I would just eat with a spoon. I'll talk with DC and see if amputating your hand will offer any kind of value. a righty, so I think I'm already like seven scripts in on Batman, so I'm well ahead. I can recover. And I hear that Jorge is pretty quick too. And he's incredible. Obviously he's he's one of our, you know, our great young artists in the game today. And he's quick, which is insane, you know, and. He's like Salvador Larocca quick.

as somebody who did eight and a half years of Iron Man comics in four and a half years with Salva, yeah, no, I'm intensely aware of a very handsome Spaniard chasing me down. Isn't that that's sort of the key Robert Patrick running, you know. All of the most savvy comic creators always find them a Spaniard to partner with at some point in their career and they usually don't let them go. Like I think of like Tom King, he's got a couple under his belt.

I'm trying to think of who else off the top of my head. There's Josh Williamson, of course, he had Daniel for a bit. Daniel's been sort of, Daniel Sanpere has been sort of bouncing around. Tom Taylor's of course got, he has his Bruno Rendondo. Like you gotta get one, once you get one, you gotta stick with them if you want a couple of Eisners, I've heard. You it took me like a solid three or four months after leaving Iron Man for my Salva sense to stop tingling.

I just knew when he was going to need more pages and be like, oh, no, no, no, no, I'm done. I'm done. don't have to do it. The longest consecutive run of Iron Man. Yeah. I'm afraid I've misjudged how comfortable it would be laying on the floor for an hour. You This is the best posture that I've seen on the Oblivion Bar. In Oblivion Bar history, I've never once had someone lay on their stomach as we talk to them. And honestly, I think I'm going to start requiring it.

think people are going to, if you want to come onto the show, you have to just sort of lay on your stomach and relax a little bit. Don't make it so serious, right? I want to go back a little bit. Matt, you were talking about how you would give your appendage to see Mike do a flash with Mark Russell. Same, but with Green Lantern.

Honestly, I would love the Flash as well, but if we're gonna go somewhere next after Wonder Woman, which again, we're probably talking a couple years in the future now, Green Lantern would be my selection, if it means anything at all in this moment. You know, they're making a TV show, so that would probably make a little bit more sense than flash in the moment. But you know what? However you and Mark want to get to it, Mike, I'm here for. Absolutely. Yeah, I'll second that.

You know, Mike, I want to transition over to you here. So right before we hopped on the call here today, I got an email from Clover Press and they said that the design of the Marvel art of Michael already had just finished. So I don't know if you're you're privy to sort of the the pings they're putting out to all of us backers. But the design looks like it's almost done, which is really exciting.

And when I tell you that when that was announced, when the Marvel art of Michael Arvid was announced, I had to find myself from not just backing it at the highest tier. And I think that was somewhere in the three or $400 range, which would have been so worth it. But I want to ask you here, what was that process like for you working with Clover and Kickstarter with this absolute tome of all red goodness? Well, I'm covered with bruises from pinching myself. I still feel like a newbie.

I still feel like I'm trying to fight my way into the industry. then I rarely look back. And then with this, to be asked, I was thinking, well, do I have enough stuff to fill a book? And then they throw it at me. And it's... kind of crazy to revisit all this stuff and then to write out the pathway. And the first work I think I ever did was for a Marvel calendar.

So to just go back and look at that and remember what that was like and revisiting, or maybe not revisiting, but visiting my progress to really look at all the different things I've tried to do to grow over the years and finding these are my favorite pieces and these are, and this is why. Yeah, it's been kind of weird to kind of look at this history. You know, I'm usually more inspired by finding new work to energize me and be inspired by and... to look back at my stuff.

There's some cringy stuff where like, I wish I'd done that differently. You know, I wish I'd used a brush instead of a pen on that. Weird little things like that. But all in all, it's really humbling and exciting to just see this stuff laid out in this way and to be declared worthy of such a tome. Yeah, it's a treat. That's awesome. Yeah. And like we, you sort of tease it there a moment ago, Matt, you actually gave a introduction along with Dan Slott for the book, which is really nice.

And I will say that at the time of this recording, and I think it's officially done, but I think it's worth saying that the project was backed by over a thousand people and it had a goal of 10,000 and it eventually reached a grand total of 165,000. So Michael, you of course are very humble about all this and it's admirable, but Gosh, that is an incredible feat. Mike, I to borrow $90,000.

Matt has said some of the kindest things that any other human being has ever said about me in my life and it's truly meaningful. when you feel that you've impacted people that have impacted you in such monumental ways, it just makes life feel extra special. it makes me wanna, it energizes me and makes me wanna just make more cool stuff. And for me, that's really what it's all about, that something exists today that didn't exist yesterday.

And I love this club we all belong to, this comic book world. I just love it so much. And my entire career, I've been told, it's dying. You don't want to be a part of this industry. It's dying. And I'm so grateful that it continues on. in very heroic real world ways. And we need that. So I'm just thrilled to be a part of it. And my origin story is my earliest memory is waking up in a hospital bed covered with comic books because my brother had knocked me off a table and gave me a concussion.

I wouldn't even know what a comic book is if it wasn't for my brother Lee. like seeing that first book that... that Matt ever read, you know, and then my brother being able to tell me the comics that were blanketed on me and finding them. just another, my brain can just like a ping pong ball, but people have given me, like at comic book shows, showed up and given me comic books that I owned as a child because I wrote my name on the cover of Ballpoint.

Yeah. that, that, that's happened three times. And, so you kids out there in ballpoint pen, right. I recently just invested in an embosser, like one of those like press embossers. nice. Yeah. I've got roughly 1300 trades behind me here. more of a dirty trade whitter. I apologize everybody.

I know it's not super cool or anything, but I'm so excited to eventually go through all of these and emboss them in some way just that people know down the road whenever I'm dead and gone and someone picks up sex criminals from my collection or yours and Dan's Silver Surfer run in my collection, they'll know that I at one point owned that, right? think that's, there's something really special about that. You have never cared about the whole mint copy thing. For me, I want my comics well read.

But that's what the collections are for, right? So where you have something classy to put on your shelf, but also doesn't damage as easily when you read it. But yeah, I love, there used to be an award that, you might remember this, Matt, but it was... I think it was a wizard. was the trophy was of a kid reading a comic book and another comic book was curled up in his back pocket. Laura got one of those.

I won at least one major award of each of the awards, but Laura's just far left me in the dust as far as quantity. You know, with so many books being printed on demand now, I like the books have birthdays now. Like, know, like it'll tell you this was printed in Troutdale, Oregon on, you know, February 28th, 2025. Like I like the birthday's.

I like for all the shifting uncertainty and weirdness in the world and the book market right now, I like some of the things I like about print on demand books is like, oh, this book has a birthday. I really like that. I like knowing when a book's birthday is. We recently had, not recently, was about six months ago, we Brian K. on the show to discuss the return of Saga.

And he said something that was really powerful to me, because I've dabbled in the graded comic here or there when it's something really means a lot to me. he mentioned like comics are meant to be rolled up and put in your back pocket. And Michael, you saying that there about the wizard trophy, just like it reinvigorated that memory of him saying that. And it's so true, right? Like this medium.

We cherish it in a different way, other than, and I'm not saying that people who collect comics are wrong for how they collect comics, because you know, this medium has a lot of different facets, but I feel like their basic function, they should be rolled up and put in your back pocket and to be read later, right? Like that makes so much sense to me. And traded. That was always big. Sure. Yeah, I mean, I would never do the thing where they seal them forever in that thick plastic.

anybody that wants to do that, do it. I would never take away what somebody enjoys. But that's not my thing. I read my comics till they fall apart. And if it's something that really means something to me, then I seek out the collection. You know, I feel like this is such a great spot for us to sort of close, but before we close out the show and I sort of prompted you both before we started this conversation, I'm so grateful again for you guys both to be here.

And I was so grateful that I wanted to premiere a brand new segment here on the oblivion bar. We've been doing this for about five years in April and this little fun game sort of sprung into my brain. I thought you two, both Michael Allred and Matt Fraction, you guys would be perfect for this. this right here, we're to, again, premiering this brand new segment called Hey kids, it's true false time. And that name is pending, not a great name. We'll get to it. We'll rename that event.

Well, yeah, I need to get a focus group together and have them redo that name there. But for everyone at home and both for you, Michael and Matt here, this is a speed round true or false question game. These are facts that are catered to both of you. And the kicker to this is that there's really only two rules. You have to answer as quickly as possible. and you can only answer true or false. And there is a prize involved here.

If either of you get seven questions or more right during your speed round, I will donate our entire month's oblivion bar, Patreon money to the hero initiative. And the hero initiative will be linked in the show notes as well for everybody. In case you're not familiar with the hero initiative, you should, if you're not. So Matt, if you're confident in me springing this random segment on you, I think I'm gonna actually start with you if that's okay. Okay All right, here we go.

the time of this recording, the Amazing Spider-Man legacy number is 962. True. That is true. David Aha is 41 years old. false. He is 47 years old, The Joker, Hugo Strange, and Catwoman all show up as antagonists in Batman number one back in March of 1940. That is true. Let's see here. The state capital of Maine is Augusta. It is. That's actually true. David Lynch directed seven films. false. Correct. He directed 10 films. Selena. Yeah, we can debate it after the round.

Good night, it's Black Lodge. Selena Gomez is older than Cardi B, Matt. true. Yeah. Okay. That is true. I know it sounds weird, Kelly's Suitokonics first public work is 30 Days of Night, Elbin and Stella number one. of false but true. Yeah, it is false her first technically her first work is CSI Domino's number five from December of 2004 No, okay, we'll come back to it Marvel Comics was originally named timely comics well it was named that before, so true. Okay. There's also this comics.

Yep. Pat and Oswald's middle name is Peter. false. That's true, actually. His middle name is Peter. Jorge Jimenez is the sexiest man working in comics today. my gosh, Matt, are you kidding me? That's my exact answer that I have here. I know. Wow. It was your seventh. Wow. Good job. All right. Good job. All right. Seven out of ten there. That's incredible. So we will donate to the Hero Initiative. That's about 130 bucks to the Hero Initiative going out in March. don't have to try as hard.

But I would appreciate it if you did. And real quick, before we move on, you said Kelly Sue's first work was not actually CSI Dominoes number five. I don't, yeah, no, I mean, there was the thing, she actually did a text story before that might've been in this, I don't remember if that was in CSI, but like she had done journalism work. So her first comics work, but you said her first public work. She had done, yeah, her first comic, that's different. Yeah. Even then those were text stories.

I think even in Stella was the first comic comic she did, but she had done other things before that. And like I said, then there's a bunch of journalism. And then there was some debate on David Lynch and his seven films or 10 films, perhaps, Michael, you were saying somewhere debatable. Well, some people don't consider Inland Empire a legit Lynch feature. And also he did a theatrical version of Twin Peaks pilot with its own ending.

So you could technically say that was a whole other feature there too, but I'm an insane Lynch fan. RIP to the great. Yeah. Losing a lot of people here at the beginning of 2025. It's a bummer. OK, hard transition again. Terrible transition. Michael, are you ready for your speed round here? All right, here we go. Walt Disney sued the University of Oregon over copyright infringement because their mascot puddles resemble Donald Duck too closely. and they worked out a deal. Yeah, it was false.

They did work out a deal capitalizing on their friendship with Disney cartoonist Mike Royer and then Oregon athletic director Leo Harris met with Walt Disney and reach an informal handshake agreement. yeah, yeah, we'll count that as yeah as a a false. So Love and Rock is number one came out in 1981. True. My absolute touchstones. Yeah, I've heard both of you love Love and Rocket, so I had to throw in more. have one of their self-published ones that they didn't even staple. Man, I missed it.

There was a year at San Diego where he found a box of them, like Gilbert found a box and brought them and I missed, I didn't, I was so mad that I didn't get a chance to get And all three brothers signed most of mine. Wow. All right. Moving on here, we have we have the name of the live action iZombie theme song is called Stop I'm Already Dead. That is true. It's by Dead Boy and the Elephant Men. So you are currently that's three for three currently.

Canonically, Don Greenwood is taller than Nightcrawler. true. That is true. Kurt isn't 5'9", Don Greenwood is 5'10". So you're 4 for 4. The Monkey's first billboard hit was, take a giant step. False. That is false. That was the B-side to 1966 hit, the last train to Clarksville. So we're five for five. Sex criminals consist of 69 issues in its complete run. No, false. You We got some cheating here behind the scenes from Matt. Correct, false. was 31 issues.

There is a 69th issue that came out in 2020. good question. Yep. All right. So we're six for six currently. Number seven here we have was Jar Jar Binks directly and significantly involved in Emperor Palpatine's gaining power over the Empire. Yes, true. That is true. Junior representative Binks was duped into presenting the military creation act to Palpatine, which eventually led to the Clone Wars and the rise of the Galactic Empire.

Bastard. Number eight, have Frank Sinatra won an Oscar for his role as Private Angelo Mangione in the 1953 class. That is true. Best supporting actor in 1954. Number nine here. This is so right now we're A for eight. Number nine here. Diet Coke was invented in 1982. False. That is true. was was admitted in 1982 and number 10 dupe has canonically had some type of sexual entanglement with Madonna. true. That is true.

Brotherhood number nine from 2002 says that they had some kind of some kind of entanglement. We don't know. So great job both of you. I that's Elena Gomez question. Didn't you? Why? No, why? Why? I don't know. I know why Mike got all the Mike's questions. Really random, yeah, all right, all right. I thought you were a big Selena Gomez, man. Either Selena Gomez or Cardi B, one of the two, right? Well, you know, look, I celebrate both, but I just just keep.

Ha. You got the Cardi B question, he got the monkey's question. I think it's only fair. question. Yeah, Mike got the monkey. Mike, don't you have a monkey's tattoo? Yeah, right there. yeah. Your monkey's love is long documented, Mike. And I actually, I have a Daft Punk tattoo right here on the front end. And then I have a Silver Surfer Mobius right here on this arm. So we carry our loves on our arms here. That's for sure. I'm going First Tattoo, Silver Surfer.

What, which, who's the artist on that one? is it inspired? it's Kirby. Okay. Check this out. I got the space child and I've got Alex from Clockwork Orange in Dave Bowman's helmet. my. This is David Lynch. There's Dale Cooper, Agent Dale Cooper with Bed Head. Nice the you know, I just started watching Twin Peaks with Henry Leo just got to that episode Yes.

Now, I don't have any Kubrick or David Lynch tattoos, but I will say, Matt, you recently posted on your Tumblr, you mentioned Fence of Van Gogh at one point, and I'm sort of spacing what the reference was, but my entire right arm is basically three Van Gogh paintings into one. It's a Cafe Church of Night, Cypress Wheatfields, and of course Starry Night back there as well. So, man, we are just, we're wearing our love on us, you know, everybody, I love that. There's my Alex Toth space ghost.

When, when Gary Owens did the voice. Downtown Burbank. Well, gentlemen, it was such a pleasure having you here on the Oblivion Bar podcast. Once again, that first issue of Welcome to Twilight premieres on March 12th. That'll be out the week that this episode releases. And before we go, all jokes aside, we were sort of into there with the true or false questionnaire there as a joke, but you both are among two of my favorite comic creators.

And when Dark Horse approached me to have you both here on the Oblivion Bar podcast to talk about Welcome to Twilight, I honestly would have paid them for the opportunity. So thank you both so much for coming on and talking to us. Thank you. Of course. before I let you go, Michael, I'll start with you here. How can the listeners follow your work? Obviously, you know, social media, whatever that you have. I think it's all red MD on everything.

I don't interact that often, I'm pretty sure I'm on Blue Sky and threads and Twitter and Instagram is all red MD. I don't have a Facebook page, but Laura does. But my big plea is for people to please go to the comic book store and ask their comic shop owner when my next thing is coming out. That's the best way to keep up on what I'm doing and keeping those comic shops alive. Now, Matt, you are notoriously completely off social media and I envy you.

So how can folks follow your career going forward? You know, go into your comic shop asking Adventure Man with me and Terry Dodson and Rachel Dodson starts back up soon with a mini series called Family Tree. And yeah, Welcome to Twilight. One is out in a couple of weeks. And Batman is in September. Batman is going to promote itself. You don't really have to think about that. Yeah, we know we got by a long time without social media. We can figure out how to do it again. Way better.

Way better for your health. At least mine. It's way better for my health. Truly, truly. Well, before I let you two gentlemen go, have one more thing I want to share with you guys. I don't know if you guys saw, you probably don't keep up with all of this. So I'm just going to try to show it to you here. There was a recent leak of some Marvel concept art. Can you guys see that? And in the concept art, looks like, this is supposed to be for doomsday.

And it looks like we have Wong, Star-Lord, Kate Bishop in the photo here. We have Stature in the background. It looks like maybe Wiccan and Speed. Kamala Khan and then in the corner here ever so slightly, if you blink you miss them, we've got dupe here in the corner.

Yeah, that's what I'm, it's always weird to ask creators how they feel about their work being adapted into the MCU because you guys are, and I will say it for you, you don't have to say if you don't want terribly not involved with a lot of this stuff and I hate it and also not compensated correctly as well. So I thought this was really cool to have both of your guys' creations in one concept art and I hope we get to eventually see it in live action someday. Amen. Yeah, well, I all fairness.

didn't create Kate Bishop. It was Alan Jimmy. But I appreciated the I got to dance with her a little bit, but. yeah. I think I'll say that like a lot of the more important parts may have came from your brain, but that's just me speaking here. It's always cool when this stuff leaves your head and ends up on a screen somewhere. Sure. it's it's it just it remains a weird thrill, you know. Mm-hmm.

Duke started as a doodle while I was on the phone, my first phone call being asked to take over X-Force to bring on a whole new cast. And then Peter Milligan, my partner, he decided that Duke would be the most powerful character in the Marvel universe. You should be. So there's that. we've been, I mean, with Deadpool 2, we had our whole X-Force thing in there and Zeitgeist in there. And it's fun. It's big fun.

And it's one, I mean, we do work in this subculture that, you know, is almost like a cult, but it's really nice when you've done work, you know, you meet somebody and you can say, hey, have you heard of iZombie? You know, They're not gonna have heard of the comic book, unfortunately, but they've probably seen the show on Netflix, you know? And so it is nice to kind of pull people in in that sneaky Hollywood way. And yeah, it's just an extra layer of fun for what we do.

Yeah, I remember telling somebody to party that I wrote comics and was always writing Punisher and they had never heard of Punisher and they had never heard of Iron Fist or whatever. And then like I wrote Spider-Man. There was a guy with Spider-Man like, oh, Spider-Man. OK, great. But now you could say, you know, now, you know, last time I was at a Target, there is an end cap full of superhero movies on DVD that I hadn't seen.

Wow. Like an end cap, you know, like like twenty five, thirty superhero films. I had not seen. I was like, if you could go back until eighth grade me, one day there's going to be a whole end cap of 30 movies of superhero films based on comics that you haven't seen yet. I was like, what? How was that even possible? I don't believe. don't know which one of those I wouldn't believe more. Right. Yeah, and how we take it for granted.

mean, people are so hyper critical with the comic book films, yet you go back 10, 15 years and show them Red Hulk and Falcon on screen, they'd lose their minds. But now it's like, we got to be all nitpicky about everything. None. Great. myself on being a really good audience. I can take things in for what the creators intended or what the hard work that was put into it. you know, so I largely enjoy almost everything on first impact.

Then I can kind of go back and be a little hypercritical and whatnot. But I choose to enjoy things. I mean, Matt knows this. He worked with my all time favorite Kurt Russell has been in my life my entire life. From Jungle Boy on Gilligan's Island on, you know, and I just can't believe how awesome it is that Matt got to work with him. Just so freaking cool.

He complimented me on how I wrote for him is like, well, hey, look, I don't want to make this weird, but you've been in my head since I was eight. So. Well, you know, I think that's a, that's a good place to end on. And again, I thank you both so much for being here on the Oblivion Bar. And I hope at some point down the road, whether it be again together or, or separate, love to have you back here on the Oblivion Bar. But until then, thank you both so much and hopefully we'll talk to you soon.

Thank you. Alrighty, there's that conversation with Matt Fraction and Michael Allred. Once again, Matt, Michael, if either one of you guys are listening for some reason, I don't know why you would, but if you are, thank you so much for coming onto the show. I'm excited for everybody to check out Welcome to Twilight number one over at Dark Horse. Again, part of the Minor Threats universe. I think at the time of this recording, it should already be out.

I think it came out the week before this episode released. So make sure you guys go to your LCS and pick that up if you can. I will say when I went to my local comic book shop yesterday, there's only two issues left. So I think folks are really liking this. sort of seems like this first issue of the Welcome to Twilight series is sort of going overlooked, but I will say it's an incredible first issue. I really love it.

And I think the one that I'm most excited for after this will be the Brian Michael Bendis and Sue Lee, both good friends of the show here on the Oblivion Bar. They have an issue coming out through this Welcome to Twilight series. So make sure you guys go check that out. Once again, thank you both Matt Fraction and Michael Allred for coming onto the show. I really honestly hope. I get to get both of guys on the show either again together or separate down the road.

But next week on the show, we are inviting another good friend of the show, a previous guest, the writer and artist of the one shot over at Oni Press, Patrick Horvath will be joining us again on the show to discuss that free for all. This is an incredible first issue. It's a one shot. was originally over on Zoop, but they have went ahead and printed it over at Oni Press as a physical copy. So I'm very excited to have Patrick on the show.

If you guys want to listen to that first conversation with Patrick. from last year. I recommend it. talk about all things beneath the trees where nobody sees. It was a fun conversation and we can't wait to get him back on. So excited for that next episode. That'll do it for episode one, E6 of the Oblivion Bar podcast. Subscribe to the podcast, Apple podcast, Spotify, YouTube, Audible, iHeartRadio. Wherever you listen to your favorite podcast, that's where we are.

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