Hi there, this is James Tynan IV. And this is Christian Ward. And we are the creative team behind the haunted distillery series Spectrograph. And you are listening to the Oblivion Bar Podcast. Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host Chris Hacker and Aaron Knowles. Hello everyone, welcome to episode 153 of the Oblivion Bar podcast, the official podcast of the Fancy Shop in St. Charles, Missouri.
I am your Lovecraftian Dark Creature of the Night from Gotham Below, Chris Hacker, and joining me this week is the man who owns the absolute nicest house on the lake, my co -host and BFF, Aaron Knowles. Just me and my ghost guts hanging out and quote unquote living the good life. I got to put the living part in quotations, right?
Because this is a spoopy episode because this week on the show we have the creative team of the upcoming distillery horror book spectrograph from James Tynan and Christian Ward. Now, Aaron, we talked about it a little bit at the end of episode one fifty two, but we're going to reiterate here in case people weren't there for that conversation with Jason Aaron. Go back and listen to that if you have not. But what I said there was that James for a long time would often do.
creator interviews on different podcasts and YouTube channels and such. But I don't know if people know this or not. He might be the busiest person in comic books right now, you know, between the 30 titles that he's writing plus Tiny Onion. He just doesn't have time. So the fact that he was able to join us this week with our good friend and one of, in my opinion, one of the best creators and one of the nicest folks in the comic industry. The nicest human beings on the planet.
100 % Christian Ward. is also here to talk about, again, their upcoming horror book through the story Spectrograph. And Aaron, to kind of speak on this just a little bit, you know, we spoke to Scott Snyder a couple of weeks ago and he was on to talk about his story, horror series, White Boat, which you'll hear that conversation here in a couple of weeks. But I want to refer to what he had said, which is and you'll actually hear it in this conversation.
He was talking more about Spectrograph than he was talking about White Boat in that conversation. Right. I think he's just honestly, I think he's just like like again. We said this so many times. He's just like a nice fucking dude, but also he's happy for his people. Like he's happy for the comic industry. He's happy for this good content, this good literature to come out. And he's super happy about the stories and distillery in general. Yeah, absolutely.
And of course, you know, we'll talk about it during this conversation, but James was actually a student of Scott's. I'm guessing that Scott's center was a professor there for a bit talking about maybe script writing or comics in general. But regardless, That was kind of my first exposure to James and his work. You know, when he first came out, he of course started writing American vampire, maybe one of the side stories.
And then he got quickly over into the DC universe, started writing, you know, a lot of the dark night metal stuff. He also did justice league dark, which I'm a big fan of Batman, of course. And then I think it was right around the time where something was killing something is killing the children. And Batman is where overnight it felt like James Tynan stock just ballooned and. crashed through the top of the chart, like truly took off. And now he's a two time Eisner winner for best writer.
And I know we've been talking a lot about James here, Christian, again, as we said a moment ago, the nicest person in the world, he is killing it with spectrograph. Number one, we had a chance to read that first issue and it is incredible. It is typical Christian ward greatness. Very excited for people to eventually get to read spectrograph. It comes out here, comes out April 24th. So I think it comes out.
The week that we put out this conversation, you will be able to go to your local comic book shop and buy spectrograph number one. What really truly Aaron, what bums me out about this conversation, of course, is the great conversation. But the one part of it that bums me out is that we didn't get to talk a ton about city of madness as much as I wanted to. I had a pretty in -depth question there at the end of the conversation.
But we, and we said it during our last episode, fastest 45 minutes of all time, like in the history of the oblivion bar, right? Yeah, it went by. Oh, quicker than you could even imagine. Like we're just talking all of a sudden. It's like we're like you just you have to start like glancing at the clock even though you don't want to. But again, it's the it's it's part of business, you know. Oh, yeah. You know, James has got places to be. And we knew that going in. That's why we kept to a tight 45.
Also, Christian being in the UK, he's got places to be. He's got to take care of his kids and his family and get back to work. Absolutely. And it was 10 p .m. when we started the conversation in the UK. So he was later than we are. It was like 4 p .m. for us. Over here on like the East and Eastern time over at his time, it was like basically nighttime. And then he even stayed after the conversation and talked to us for a bit, which is insane.
I will say just briefly before we get into the supplemental stuff, before we get in the conversation, one of the best things to come out of this show, undoubtedly is the friendship that we have. We have obtained from Christian, like the fact that not only have we had him on the show now four times, so he has supplanted Tom King as the most visited guest on the oblivion bar, but. For some reason, short tie. Exactly.
Just two, just two of the best creators in comics going back and forth on who's going to join us the most. But for some reason, Christian just keeps wanting to hang out with us and listen, Aaron and I, we are, we, it is not beyond us that that is an incredible deal. We love it. We love hanging out with him. We love having him on the show and we're going to keep riding this train for as long as he wants to keep talking to us. So. It's a good deal. My sweet British boy. That's right.
And before we get in this conversation, why don't you tell the folks how they can support the Oblivion Bar podcast? Money, please. No, money, daddy, money, money, please. No, that sounds so fucking terrible. You can help get it. They understand at this point. Yeah, we're right now. No, no self deprecating. No self deprecating, okay? You can help support the show by visiting us at patreon .com forward slash oblivion bar pod. And I'm joking. None of the money comes out.
It all goes back into the show. Whenever you see anything getting better in this show, whether it's graphics, music, art, equipment, you guys are helping us make the show better. And that's all you, that's all we, we can only thank you for that. Obviously we put our time, sweat, money, blood, tears, you know, stool samples, all that stuff into the show. Other liquids. Yes. But we have you to thank for supporting what we do.
And for your support, you get access to our weekly grid episode, which is kind of our our free form, free flowing, you know, just just off the cuff episode each week that's Patreon exclusive. You get access to episode transcripts before the shows come out. So you can see what we're going to be talking about. Our links, our clicks, all that stuff. Early access to normal episodes, a special shout out at the end of each Oblivion Bar episode as well.
Depending on the tier, you get additional free stuff. We love giving out free stuff. It's just honestly the best way to support the show, not us, the show. So make sure you guys go check out patreon .com forward slash Oblivion Bar Pod. We just recently redid all the different tiers and you know, we make it more accessible to everybody. So go over again, once again, patreon .com forward slash. Oblivion bar pot and check those out. Absolutely. One more piece of news here.
We have a panel, Aaron, at the end of this month. We have a panel at C2E2. What? What are you saying? Why are you saying what's weird? What way? On Friday, April 26 at 1115, we are going to be joining the first issue club and the short box podcast at C2E2 for a epic crossover live recording. We call it a panel, but truthfully, it's just a recording of an episode that we're going to face. Greg, we're looking at you. He's tall, though. So you have to you're going to kick it.
You have to get like Van Damme. You got a high kick. The guy will like flip upside down. I'll give you a boost. You'll run at me. I'll throw you in the air. What's it called the move where where like Colossus like or Hulk throws? No, it's Colossus throws war. Yeah, the fastball. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Join us in room S four oh five dash B to hear a live recording of our three shows getting together and talking about comics, talking about podcasting, talking about spinning high kicks, all the things about me will have C2E2 exclusive stickers, shirts, posters. As Aaron said, we like to give out free stuff. We'll be doing it at our panel. They they've all been curated and made by our good friend and fellow patron of the show, Elliot Dixon.
It's a homage to Wolverine number eight from 1989 by Chris Claremont and John Breschema. So it's incredible. I mean, we've posted all over our social media. So give that a look. It's going to be incredible. And also we'll have, as Aaron, you said this in our last episode and thank you for reminding me, we're actually going to have a panel exclusive holographic sticker. So you can, there's only going to be 10 of them in existence.
And if you come to that panel, you have the chance to get one of them. So visit the link in our show notes for more details on that. Very excited to hang out with Bader from the short box, Andy and Greg from the first issue club. And of course, us two knuckleheads hanging out with everybody just talking, talking, podcasting a couple of knuckleheads. So without further ado, we've been rambling long enough. Let's get into our conversation with James Tynan, the fourth and Christian Ward.
Hey, Aaron, how do you like to read your comic books digitally? Chris, it's funny that you should say that. I just started buying and reading my comics on Omnibus. Oh, interesting. I actually heard from a little birdie. It's actually backed by some of the top publishers in the medium. It also hosts an extensive back catalog from Image Comics, Boom Studios, Dark Horse, Ahoy Comics, Titan, Vault, and many more. And most importantly, Omnibus supports in -app purchases.
That little birdie is called X now, but also Omnibus has officially been made reading and buying comics digitally the easiest it's ever been. Wow, that's incredible. And you know what I'm going to do, Aaron? I'm actually going to go right now to my iPad iOS device and download Omnibus. And also right after that, I'm going to go follow them over on social media. at the Omnibus app. Omnibus for fans by fans. This week's special guest.
Joining us this week on the show is the creative team behind the highly anticipated prestige formatted for issue haunted ghost story at distillery publishing spectrograph. One is an Eisner award winning and New York times bestselling author of titles like something is killing the children, nice house on the lake, blue book, department of truth, house of slaughter, world tree and the deviant.
They also recently just started a production company, tiny onion, which plans to develop a number of those successful series we just listed and adapt them for both. television and film. The other is the three time Eisner winning comic book creator behind titles like Aquaman Andromeda, Odyssey, Invisible Kingdom, Black Bolt, Bloodstained Teeth and Batman City of Madness. This is also his fourth time on the show making him the most visited guest of all time.
It is our honor to welcome both James Tynden the fourth and Christian Ward onto the Oblivion Bar podcast. Yeah. Fuck you, Tom King. Fuck you, Tom King. Chris, what did I say? Chris, what did I say? I said that was coming out of your mouth. We started a turn for Tom King. This is an ambush. I didn't know he was going to say that. I promise.
So, James, just so you kind of know what's going on here, we had Tom King on the show only a couple of weeks ago, and we told him that Christian has been on the show more times than him. And he started to, I mean, Christian. truthfully, he was badmouthing you, right? Like he was coming at you. Yeah. I'm like, we're mortal enemies now. Like, I mean, I'm glad he's not got any military training because you know, I don't have to worry. I'm bringing those inflatable like boxing gloves.
I don't know if you have them like these soccer boppers. I'm bringing them to NYCC. So when you come, you guys can just. settle it out. Yeah, absolutely. I can bring my real boxing gloves. No, no, no. This is getting dangerously close to me getting bruised. This is like ego or physically. Yeah, I'm like a peach. You don't touch this. Well, thank you both so much for being here.
Let's go ahead and start off by talking about the series that you are both currently working on over at Distillery, as we just said, Spectrograph. The first issue comes out on April 24th. And this four issue series has been described as an exotic and terrifying take on the occult and the paranormal. Now I have a little clip here. I actually have a couple of clips planned throughout this conversation. So here's our first one. Christian, this might sound familiar to you.
Me and James have been circling each other for years. We've been, you know, I'm such a huge fan of his and you know, I'd like to think he feels the same way. Inverse and we first talked about spectrograph. I think it was two years ago. This is an idea that he kind of came up with. He sent me the story, the actual the beats of what will happen. And I was like, oh, that's so fucking cool. I was just like, I want to read that.
And the thing that I loved when he sent it to me was I was like, I'm going to be the first person that's going to read it. How cool is that? Like, I'll have read it before anyone else. And I can't wait. So James, yeah, let's, let's go ahead and start with that. Let's talk about that a little bit. So as you just heard, it sounds like you and Christian have been trying to work together on a series for a while now. So what was it about?
Not only this story, but distillery that brought you two together finally. So, I mean, we had started talking about this kind of in, uh, you know, without out really talking about what publisher it would land at. This would have been in the lead up to the first time we collaborated together on. a Swamp Thing short story. And so it's like, which I think would have been like the Halloween right after the launch of, I think it would have come out fall like October, 2020.
Like that seems about right. So we would have started talking after something is killing the children and like around the launch of Department of Truth. And then it was just sort of like us. Uh, you know, basically saying we both really, really like each other's work. We would love to find something down the road. We both had a very full dance card. Uh, but there was, you know, there were sort of two things that were in the back of my mind.
One, like the first of which was like, you know, Hey, like let's work on this one thing thing that that was great. And then, you know, I was about to take over. the main, the pilot seat of the Batmobile over in the Gotham line. And it was like, let's find like an issue that we can do somewhere in here to play around in Gotham city. And then from there, it's just like, then we'll start working on Spectograph.
But really in that, those first sort of conversations, you know, I had started laying out.
You know, with Department of Truth, I had kind of realized that I loved working from things that I could do some research on and tap into my deep... like interests and, uh, you know, all sorts of weirdness and, you know, the one area like department of truth sometimes touches into the occult, but it doesn't really go super far into that, you know, and what it really doesn't go into is like the entire history of like spiritualism and everything, uh, like that in American history.
And that's like a whole leg of, you know, a strange history of the United States is like all exists on that kind of, on that wavelength. And so that was something I really wanted to tap into.
But it was just it all came down to a simple pitch and I don't mind spoiling it because it's the first few pages of the first issue Which is basically you have the this man who has been a key member of this occult organization who spent the first half of his life spending his tremendous fortune trying to prove that ghosts exist and then he comes to a like firm decision they don't Like, he has proved that they don't exist, that everything they've been talking about
in this occult group is wrong, and then he spends the second half of his life using the rest of his fortune to make ghosts exist. And that is the kind of, like, central concept of spectrograph. And spectrograph refers to the machine that he spent the rest of his life building, which is embedded into this big, beautiful mansion. Christian, what's your viewpoint from this? When James came to you for this story, what was your initial reaction? Well, I kind of said it in that little clip you played.
I mean, what James has just said to us right now, that's literally word for word, his selling of his pitch to me. And it was just immediate. It was just such a cool idea. I mean, I think the other thing that James said was that he really wanted to see what my ghost looked like. You know, and that was the thing for me, it was just like, what do my ghosts look like? You know, what would that kind of, that's something I'd never really done.
I've never really done kind of like a supernatural, although this is a very kind of left field take on supernatural kind of like horror, but I've never done it. So it was, it was really kind of, that was playing to my kind of wheelhouse of like, you know, very kind of nebulous kind of art and kind of like something that's kind of not that as tangible. as like, as a traditional pen and ink art might be.
So yeah, it was just excitement, but like, and then it was just, we would check in with each other literally every year and just be like, you know, how's it, sometimes James would check in with me. And then sometimes I'd check in with him. It was just, and it was finding that kind of space.
And it was when Distillery kind of set up that kind of allowed us that opportunity that we were like, that we just, just decided to grab it because they just allowed just such a broader canvas than a lot of other kind of, you know, create our own publishers, lots of amazing creative publishers that we've both worked for, you know, in, you know, the industry that do great books.
But it was such a specific kind of vision of Distillery, this idea of like, you know, a coffee table art book, you know, really big, oversized. I kind of view it as like IMAX comic books. You know, they're really, really big. And it was, it was just too much of a tantalizing opportunity for us to pass up. And we both had like this very small window that we were like, okay, we can, you know, and it was just like, I think we can do that. We can aim for that window.
And we've just gone for it, you know, and it's been really cool. Yeah. But I mean, like part of it was also like when I finally had, cause it all lined up really, really nicely where it was actually like at a, I was at Thought Bubble. And I had the conversation with Chip Mosher and David Steinberger kind of laying out, like, okay, I wanted to understand what were the broad strokes of what we'd be talking about if I were to sign up with them.
And literally, Christian was there at the show, and so it was just like, I found him right afterwards, and it was just like, they're doing black label -sized creator -owned books. And I had just come from an end of a whirlwind tour where I had hit up like, I had gone Italy, Spain, and France, and then the UK. And so I had just seen the full breadth of European comics in all of the different size formats, and I'm so deeply, powerfully jealous.
And I've wanted to work at, like, create our own books at a larger format for a long time. When I first started talking about Nice House on the Lake over at DC Black Label, I thought I was gonna get a Black Label sized book. And it's like, you know, that was like part of the, oh, hey, like this is gonna be really fun, like playing with a house in that format. But then, you know, we talked about it and it ended up in the standard format.
But it was just like, I really, really wanted to try to like, you know, build, create our own books that are these kind of like, these are the prestige art books. These are gonna be like, big, beautiful art artifacts. And it's just like, it feels like Europe gets away with that a lot more than we do in our comics market. And I am very, very happy to see that there does seem to be some hunger for it.
And, you know, the fact that these distillery books are actually, like, you know, there's a real excitement around them. You know, we know our initial orders. They're very strong. Like, this is, you know, there are people who want to buy these books. And that's really exciting.
That's what I love about what I've seen, you know, distillery from, from its inception, the announcements to every, every time something is announced, the excitement just purely for not just the stories and the art that's going into it, but it's just, it's, it feels like something I don't want to say like new and shiny because that just gives it kind of like a superficial feel, but this is something that's elevated. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the right word. It feels special.
And I, and I'm so excited to see, you know, as, again, as a newer person, the comic community to see that kind of inception to fruition is really inspiring. And the fact that it's creator owned, you guys are doing something special. And then also the fact that you get to kind of highlight those different formats in the, in the IMAX, a comic book kind of idea. It's, it's so amazing to see. And every single time something is announced, a new story is announced.
The anticipation is so like, people are excited, palpable. It's palpable. Absolutely. No, and that's more than anything, that's what, you know, that's the biggest reason that I signed on board to do a bunch of books at Distillery because, you know, like I do a bunch of comics at every publisher, it seems like, these days.
But it is the like right now, like one of the big things for a while, whenever someone like reached out to me, it's like, why, you know, what could I do with this publisher that I couldn't do with one of my publishing partners that I already have? And this site, this format is the thing. And it's just like the format and the support they're giving to like really do like try something and put them out in like such high quality. Like the print quality of these books is incredible.
Like the, you know, we have spot gloss on the covers. Like they're just gorgeous. The books are absolutely gorgeous. And it's really exciting to be a part of that. I'll say Chris is definitely one of the people that I know for a fact saw the worth in it, the beauty in it before I did.
Because I remember at which convention was it at Chris where I took the book around and I got everybody during the interview I was working Sanio Comic Con is when the devil's cut came out and I had Aaron go around to all of the creators I couldn't get to and have them sign it I got the the gold foil version and I have it in the room actually but but yeah Thank you Aaron for that and you know, it is like you guys have said it's it presents incredibly well
It's it's just like this showcase of what? the comic medium can be and, you know, in a very different way. So, yeah. And it reinvigorates something. It catches the eye more than just a standard book. So, but Christian, you said on the show previously, horror is kind of like this infection that reflects the twists and the certain elements from our modern world and like society in terms of spectrograph and what you and James are creating here.
What elements of modern culture are you excited to showcase and kind of twist within this story? I mean, I'll say a little bit because obviously me and James have kind of spoken of what this is about. I mean, obviously, you know, any kind of like ghost stories at its heart kind of about life and death and, you know, kind of the regrets of life and death. I mean, ghosts are the kind of the regrets that just sort of linger. You know, that's how I kind of perceive ghosts.
But there's definitely, I mean, I think me and James share a kind of... You know, this is kind of like very much a dig at kind of like, you know, kind of like a high society capitalism kind of in a similar way that kind of I looked at with kind of bloodstained teeth. So there's there's definitely that element.
And there's there's, you know, you we're going to meet characters that kind of I would say and James jump in because like I don't want to kind of muddy the waters, but there's definitely kind of like two characters from kind of two different kind of what. financial worlds, we've got like, kind of like, you know, the high financial world of the cultists, and then we've got like, kind of like an everyday person that kind of finds themselves in it.
So there's definitely an idea of kind of high society and muddling by, shall we say. But I'll let James kind of expand more because, you know. He knows what he's talking about. I'm just rambling. No, no, no. But you're rambling in the right direction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, I mean, right at the heart of this whole story is, you know, like I in the lead up to actually writing series itself, you know, I sort of went back and I revisited so many of like the seminal haunted house stories and and and films and just sort of like absorbed all of it and specifically trying to absorb like Like, what are the stories that kind of play against it? But it all deals with that kind of the guilt of the past. And it's all about a kind of, and it's about a fear of death.
And at the center of this story is, is meant to be a kind of inversion of that. There is a fear of life at the center of this story. And that is, that's really what our characters are reaching towards or running away from. And it's just like, and what the ghosts represent in conjunction to that is like really one of the central mysteries of the story and the way in which, you know, the way in which haunting works in this is going to, it's going to play in a few different directions.
And I'm just really, really excited for people to see where we go with it because it's like. You know, there were lots of like complicated ideas that we're playing with in here, but the heart of the story is a very human story. And it is not a, you know, like, this is not like something that I try to bring to all of my work is I want the characters to read very vibrant and alive and of the moment.
Like I want them to feel like characters that live and breathe in the world that we all live and breathe in. And that's something that's like right at right at the heart of this story. Like there are heightened characters all around them, but it's just like, you know, the two women at the center of this story, Janie and Vesper are like very, you know, like they're just very, very human and what they want is very, very human. And I think people are going to relate tremendously to them.
And then we're going to see what haunts them and what they're afraid of. Well, you're already nailing it with everything that Janie's got going on, cause Janie's a horrible mom. Not even like, I feel like, you know, and this is just my idea of like, you know, a good like horror element of a horror story, which, you know, we're reading here is there's always that, that kind of standard level of anxiety that you get of, you know, you're anxious because of something that element that's there.
And you just introduced it within the first couple of pages. And, you know, I'm just going to say it's a baby, but like, it's just like, you're now stuck at this base level of anxiety. because it's always there. And I think it's interesting because you're saying that this is a world where this guy has discovered that there are no ghosts, but she's clearly haunted by something. And so we're all haunted by it now.
But the question that I kind of wanted to ask real quick, and I'm gonna interject it here, is just that the house kind of reminds me of 13 ghosts. I'm a huge fan of, and I had to ask because I'm curious about, you know, cause, It's an entire mechanism that kind of surrounds this one purpose. Was that kind of a piece of inspiration?
As well as you said, the ghosts in this book that we will see all kind of represent something, which all the ghosts in 13 Ghosts represented, they were all kind of like different sins and different issues. Do you have anything to say kind of like to... I mean, like first and foremost, like, yes, it is a tremendous influence. And on top of it, it's just like the, especially the remake on... Like with Matthew Lillard and all of that.
Like that is, it is just one of the most fun horror movies from the like, you know, turn of the millennium. Like it is just a really, really good fun movie. It's campy in the right ways. It's scary in the right ways. Each of the ghosts are like interesting and dynamic. Like what we're doing with ghosts is very different than what exists at the heart of that. The purpose of the machine is very different, but the idea of like a house ghost machine, like.
You know, it is something that, like, tapping a little bit into that, to my love of that story. But I mean, it's just like, obviously that is an occult machine. Like, and it just builds into its own, like, fictional mythology, which is part of what's the fun of it. All of the ghosts there were collected outside and all that. Like, what the ghosts represent here is very fundamentally different, and how the ghosts manifest is very fundamentally different.
Like, we, you know, this is where we're going to see... you know, these ghosts are somehow like very human and very inhuman. Like these are scary. Like this is, I think Christian and I are both tapping into some, you know, Clive Barker lanes over here. So it's just like, this is like, it all manifests very differently, but I've never been shy of letting, you know, wearing my influences on my sleeve and you've just pointed to a big. I've never actually seen it.
And James has been my thing for me to watch it. So I like this point. Maybe like what you're done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Put together like a list of like like ghost ship 13 ghosts. What's another of those? There was like, was it haunting on a house? Yeah. There's like the list of these that all over like made in that same time frame. You know, they suddenly they had some new technology and that's also right in the era that they figured out how to like dice someone like in a horror movie.
So it's like a lot of the first times that you can actually see like it's somebody cut in half in a way like like either vertically or sideways. Isn't that the entire intro of Ghost Ship? Yeah, yeah. They'll get from that wire off the sound percent and someone is like bisected like vertically in. in 13 ghosts. It's just like, yeah, the technology suddenly existed to do that. And every horror director within three, we got to use this man. It's like bullet time. Everybody's got to use bullet time.
Yeah. Okay. So without spoiling anything, those last final, those final pages of that first issue are, in my opinion, worth the price of admission alone. Like those last like three pages are incredible. Speaking of ghosts, we got to look at ghost guts. So Christian, any explanation on who this ghost got? Ghost guts is our slimer. That's why I said yeah. Very topical. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was funny because like kind of like it was a really strange the kind of the whole ghost gut thing kind of happened almost kind of accidentally. And it was just so perfect. Like so we were doing the kind of we were working on the Devil's Cup and I was just like, you know, we were talking about like, you know, what what our ghost could have looked like. And. We were sort of like talking, you know, are they going to be like interfering?
So are they going to kind of like, you know, is it going to be a deal? And there was a one point I was talking about that I was going to paint the ghosts. So they were a completely different medium to the rest of the comic. But then as I was drawing them, I was just like, I just had this this thing. Well, if they're see -through, why can't we see their innards? And it was just that in the minute I drew it and I sent it to James, James was like, like, scrap everything else. That's it.
It's it's the actual email was just in all caps That was the only response Yeah, it was it was one of those really kind of like and then you know and it's I can't talk about it and there's that I'm gonna kind of spoil stuff but there was there was something James put in like the scripts and when we were sort of talking about kind of like the spectrograph that it was just it just it was Perfect, then you'll find this out as you read it It'll become more and more
apparent what we're actually doing with the ghost But I can promise you you have never read a ghost story like this. You have never seen ghosts like this These are really they're unlike anything you've seen and they're really fucking cool and they're really fucking Yeah, issue two is when we kick it we kick the you know now now we've set the stage now we can just scare you for a while like That's our goal.
Yeah. Well, let's stick with this topic of horror, because both of you are obviously two of the premier voices in the world of horror within comics. Christian, you just finished up your Black Label book, Batman's City of Madness at DC Comics. And James, it seems like every series you write outside of Wynn has some horror element to it. Something is Killing the Children, The Deviant, which was amazing. I mean, they're all amazing, but Nice House on the Lake and now Spectrograph.
James, let's start with you. Can you think back to when your love of horror like really first like that spark for horror really kicked in? I mean, a huge part of it is I thought that I hated horror when I was growing up. It was a like, you know, I always like things with a spooky aesthetic. I like drawing skeletons. I love Nightmare Before Christmas.
Like it, you know, but then like once I actually came, came of age and my friends started watching scary movies, it was just like, this is too scary for me. I don't want to have nightmares. Because I had bad nightmares, like, fairly often. And, you know, and then a few things started happening, like, kind of simultaneously. Like, in late middle school, early high school, I realized that I really liked telling my nightmares to my friends, like, at sleepovers and stuff.
I just, like, I like - Something that's killing the children. Oh, yeah, the opening of Something That's Killing the Children is, like - fully take, I mean down to the fact that the kid's named James. And has classes. Yeah, and has classes. Like there's always a James in my books. I'm not, like, you know, I'm not too shy about that. But there is a, there's an element of, you know, there was an element of storytelling that I really, really started to appreciate and I started to really love.
But at that moment, I would still cancel on a group hangout if I found out that they were watching a horror movie. And I would like go down the aisle at Blockbuster and I wouldn't make eye contact with the VHS cases because I was like, if I looked them like straight in the eye, then I would have terrible nightmares about what I assumed the movies were about.
But then like I find in late high school, I started reading Stephen King and then I started making caveats to the - Like where it was just like, I enjoyed reading horror, but I didn't like seeing horror. And then I went into college and I started writing horror. And then I, and my minor was in film studies and I just like finally decided to pull off the band aid.
And you know, at Sarah Lawrence college, you basically have to write a like a full thesis paper every semester for, you know, for the courses you're in.
And I like three semesters in a row, I just wrote, my theses on horror and over the course of like a year I watched about you know 250 different horror movies and it's like and then I started like understanding the different pieces of them and understanding the fact that we're never like the the stories that were in my head were much scarier often than the movies and then when the movies were actually scarier I found that really interesting and exciting and I wanted to understand why and how.
And then, you know, once I connected with Scott Snyder and the two of us started writing together, both of us start from a base of horror. And it's like, and it means that it's just like, we're almost the central question that we're always asking ourselves. And when we build the new characters, what are they afraid of? And then how do you literalize their fear into something that they have to overcome over the course of the story?
And it's just like, that is at the heart of every Scott Snyder story. And it's at the heart of every James Tynan story. Like we're both horror writers at our hearts. And that's how that bond was forged. And then we both brought that into superhero comics. And then I finally got around to just writing straight up horror. Christian, how about you? I know we've had you on the show now four times. How have we not talked about where your origin of horror started? I can't follow that.
I just like horror. I like horror. I like monsters. Blood, blood, blood. I mean, I think kind of like... Yeah, I mean, I mean, things for me is like I like scary stuff, but I never I don't like go like girls like any horror that's like really good. I'm like, no, thank you. But I think kind of why I gravitate to those sort of stories is the kind of I think when you bring in an element of unreality to a story, there's that that's a bit more unpredictable. You don't know what's going to happen.
And I find that exciting in stories like what is gonna happen? And I think kind of I gravitate towards stories where I can't predict it as easily because we are in a realm of non -reality. As far as kind of like writing goes though, I think I don't see myself as, I'm a very newbie writer. I don't really see myself as a horror writer. I kind of like. When I'm writing a story, I like to kind of think, well, what's this story about? And react to kind of things that I'm scared of or interested in.
And they tend to be frightening things, you know, in the world that surround us or things that make me angry. And I think when you have something that makes you angry or that frightens you, it just naturally translates to kind of a horror because those are the emotions that you're trying to kind of deal with. And those are the kind of the conversation you're trying to have. It's about scary things. It just gravitates towards that genre. But I can look at VHS tech.
Like, no problem. That's Stephen King. That's when you were younger, Christian. Well, the ghoulies. I mean, this is really old school. You guys might be a bit too young for this. There was a video. There was a horror called the ghoulies. And it's about these creatures that live in the toilet.
And I always remember there was like a video shop that we used to go to, there was like a cardboard stand and it was a toilet with this thing coming out of the toilet and it used to scare, it was just like, and that used to scare the shit out of me. I was just like, I don't want to have that thing bite my bum. So yeah, the ghoulies was the exception to the rule. I didn't like that.
Well, we actually just spoke about this gentleman a moment ago, but I have another clip that I want to play before we get into our next question here. So here we go. Every book has been great. Spectrograph is gonna blow your mind too, from James and Christian. I can't say enough good things about him. If you haven't picked up Spectrograph or you missed the order cut off, go get it. I'm sure it'll sell out. It's amazing, like everything he does.
He's the best writer in comics and one of the best human beings on the planet. So I'm like not anything but praise for him on every level. I met him, he was my student when he was an undergrad and I was like a adjunct teacher. I was in my like, I don't know. my mid -20s and he was like, we've known each other forever. He was a child.
To have your, I've said it many times, but to have your student become somebody who you learn from, who's a good teacher to you is a great feeling and he's just the best. So yeah, James, as Scott just said there, we just had, again, we had him on the show just a couple of weeks ago, but.
On top of all the series that you're working on currently, some of which we didn't even list in the intro because there are just so many, you are also a founding creator of Distillery Publishing and recently started Tiny Onions Productions. You seem to be leading the pack with not only being one of the premier writers of the medium, but also among one of the savviest in terms of business when it comes to the comic industry.
So my question for you is, where does that vigor come from when it comes to building your brand and your production? Well, I talk about my therapist, talk about that with my therapist like every couple of weeks. It's like, I am, I'm a workaholic. I have a, I don't know how to do less. I think I would go a little bit insane if I was only working on one project at a time. Working at, on a bunch of different titles all at once allows me to stretch all of these different muscles creatively.
And then on top of that, like one of the heart. Like, one of the biggest reasons I'm in comics is how much I love comic book art. If you, like, walk around my apartment, the walls are covered in comic book art. I have, like, you know, two, three, I have three portfolios worth of, like, original art that I picked up. I am, like, like, this is, this is my deep passion, and I'm not an artist.
Like, you know, I'm gonna go to a friend's figure drawing later, later today, and I'm going to draw the worst, like, sketch of my friend. that like, you know, you could possibly imagine and no one will see it because I don't even like, it's not even like jokingly, oh, it's cute how not good it is. It's like, no, no, no, this is just a, like, it looks like when I tried doing this when I was 17, cause that's when I stopped doing it. And, but I like, I love art and I love working.
And then on top of that, I like solving problems. Like I went for years, I was working in and around superhero comics and there was an entire aspect of that job that was just dealing with the internal politics, like week in and week out, trying to get stories through and all of that. And the second I was kind of freed of that ecosystem and I was just able to like, just work on all of the things that I wanna work on, I was able to really tap into all of this.
And then on top of that, it's just like, I have, you know, like I think you might be able to... like look at it as like issues with authority figures. So I don't like having a boss. So I very much like being like being in this role where I can effectively operate as an independent production studio, not just in, you know, not out like, like in film and TV, but also in the comic space.
It's like, you know, and that's how I keep sort of describing us is that like, we, we developed a lot of these projects in -house similar to how like Christian and I like, talked about this book for years before, like, oh, this is the perfect publisher for it. Now, because I have relationships with all of these different publishers, I can sort of build the idea, like, find the right creative partner for it, and then bring it to the publisher that we think it will do the best at.
And like, that is really, really great. And I love all of my publishing partners most of the time. And it is a, like, You know, and it's a fun game to play, and I enjoy doing it, and then beyond that, there's also just a very selfish element of it, which is I see how I think comics should work, and I'm gonna try it out.
A lot of it is just me leaning into the sorts of stories that I love telling, and then finding other creators who lean into the same type of storytellers, and then how to, like... I need, like I work on so many different projects. I needed to build an entire infrastructure just to manage my own work. And the second it was built, you know, that's when it's just like, okay, now other people should be able to benefit from this ecosystem that I've built.
And, you know, we should be able to like use all of our titles to sort of support each other. Like Tiny Onion has lots of ambitious moves that we're going to be doing over the, and you know, the benefit of like having a little cash in the bank means that like we can start. talking about ideas that I won't be able to say out loud to on a public facing podcast for three years. Which in comics is not normally the sort of, you normally don't get to think in that kind of long term planning.
And it's just like, it is such a relief to be able to do that. And then on top of that, getting to start having these conversations in the Hollywood space and that we get to drive. And it's like, the new position of Tiny Onion, I was just telling Christian earlier this week, we were talking to someone very, very cool about Spectrograph and sort of pitching the entire concept.
And it was just like, these are the opportunities that are now on our plate rather than just sort of handing all of the base rights off to somebody else and kind of hoping that they are gonna be proper custodians for it. At least if I'm a bad custodian to my own work, it's like, I can't blame anyone but myself. Well, kind of we kind of had like two specific questions for each of you and Christian for you. You know, we mentioned this earlier.
You recently just finished up your dream project over with Batman, City of Madness. And this is maybe a slight spoiler for issue three and the series. So if you haven't read the finale of City of Madness, proceed with caution. But in the end, and this is kind of my interpretation is that we discover that the story is ultimately about the sins of our fathers and the trauma that it passes down to us as the sons, you know.
And in spite of the purest intentions, the creation of Arkham Asylum drives Amadeus and his son Arthur mad. Specifically, it influences Arkham to torture his patients and summon dark magic to relieve his son's depression. That, of course, backfires on Ammon notes to Amadeus. This makes Arthur into an easy target for the darkness to create the Batman below.
And with that, there's a parallel of Bruce with Alfred and how he subconsciously or otherwise trained and pushed and encouraged Bruce to eventually become the Dark Knight. so that he too could enact vengeance and seek closure for the loss of Martha and Thomas. So that's my long winded way of saying. It's really good. It's awesome. All the Eisners. But I will say that from what I've seen from the masses, the only complaint that I've seen is people say they want more. There hasn't been enough.
Right. So my question for you is, in a very broad way, how do you feel about the series now that it's done and finished? I mean, you know, like, I mean, Arkham Asylum, Cirrus House, Cirrus Surf is the reason why I'm a comic book artist. That book changed me. And so to do a book that is a spiritual sequel, a love letter to that book, as I've said, Black County, I'm podcasting with you guys before, it was a huge privilege and just like one that I was very grateful for.
And I have more, there's more of that world and there's more story to tell. If the fans want it and DC want it, I would love to return to it. Obviously at the end of the story, there is a bit of a twist at the end that we could explore. But if that's it, if that's all I do, I will be very happy and very grateful. I couldn't be prouder of it. Well, we got one final question before you guys get, you know, we don't want to take all your time, but we appreciate the time you spent with us.
It pertains to the Dark Knight himself. As we've said, you both wrote successful runs on Batman and we think it's safe to say that the fans would love to see a continuation of both your stories in some form or another. Can we expect either of you to write the caped crusader again at some point in the future? I mean, I'll say this. There is something there is another Batman thing. Oh, there it is. Nailed it. I'm leading cool. The beat. Yeah, yeah. So it'll be a while before you you know about it.
But yeah, and like I would love to do more city of brandness, but that's that's up to the gods I mean if the hardcover sells really well, you know, I'm sure DC will be up for it. Mm -hmm. Yeah, and on my end I I've spent ten years in Gotham City. I've written like over 200 Batman issues. I Don't see myself going back to Gotham in the immediate future, but it occupies an incredibly powerful part piece of my heart.
And you know, like I literally I have, you know, the bat crashing through the window tattooed on my arm. When I left Detective Comics, I said I wasn't gonna go back to Gotham City. And then I was there two years later. Like it's something that there's sometimes the bat signal goes up. Like, you know, I'm never gonna say never those characters I love tremendously.
But right now, I think it's more likely that if there are little aspects of the Batman mythology that I have deep fascinations with, I wouldn't be surprised if you saw me sort of twist and bend them and find a way to express them in a creator -owned series. I think you found the right guy right now to bring it to artistic life. That's right. That's right. Well... James Christian, like we said, it was just an absolute pleasure to have you both here at the same time.
Just got a spectrograph and Batman and all the things. Once again, that first issue of spectrograph hit shelves on April 24th. So make sure you call up your LCS and have them added to your pool. And James, I'm going to speak to you here. We are obviously both both Aaron and I huge fans of your work and we just can't wait to see what you continue to work on both in comics and with tiny onion and everything in between. And Christian. Obviously we love you too.
And we, you know that anytime that you or either one of you actually want to come on the back on the show to talk about whatever, please, like we would absolutely, we would love it. I'll be back next week. We'll pass the baton off to each one of you one more time. Is there anything you want to plug any socials, anything you want to highlight before we go? Uh, Christian, we'll start with you. Yeah, no, I'm good. It's all about, it's all about spectrograph for the moment.
Yeah. I'll come back in a bit. We have more stuff, I'm sure. Yeah, like on top of Spectrograph, which you should go pick up, like Department of Truth's coming back this summer, some of my other big series that people have that have been sort of dormant for a second. You might hear some news about in the next few weeks. So keep your ears to the ground.
The other thing that I, you know, after such a lovely message from my good friend and mentor, Scott Snyder, everyone should also put in their orders for White Boat.
By him and Francesco Frankavia if you like horror like once again like you know Scott is the one who like taught me how to do a horror comic good and if you haven't honestly if you haven't been reading some of his creator on horror over the last few years I think they like deserve they like a huge audience like those books are just so like wickedly smart and so well put together and you know and then Like Frank, if he is fucking amazing and you should pick up the you should pick up white book.
I completely agree. I will echo all that. And we just want to say once again, thank you both. Christian and James for joining us. Can't wait for people to get spectrograph in their hands. And we'd love to again have you back on the show and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you for having us. Sounds good. Have a good one. OK, there's that conversation with James and Christian. Such an honor to have both them on. Very excited for them and for the release of spectrograph.
I think people are going to flock. to their local comic book shop for this first issue. Why'd you laugh at that? Why'd you laugh at my flock? I don't know. I don't know. What the, what the flock, Aaron? Yeah. Uh, but it is, it's great, Aaron. I don't, you didn't really get to talk about it much at the beginning of the show. You've got, you had a chance to respect your graph. Number one, is this something that you're going to continue on after, you know, this first issue? Absolutely. Absolutely.
I am very quickly. And again, we talk about it in the episode, how like you were just. from the beginning, from the get -go, as soon as you heard about what Distillery was doing, you were an automatic supporter. I was kind of like, ah, I was a little bit hesitant, but now that I see all the stuff they're doing, also the fact that my girl, Mica Andalfo is over there doing some - She's a founding member. She's a founding member, Blasphemous is looking, you know, like I love it.
So Spectrograph - You like it, it's spice. I like it, it's spice. Spectrograph, we read it, it's so good. You can hear it during the conversation, like I am - in love with this book and I cannot wait to read more. And also I don't know if I can take what's going to happen to this book because it's so like my anxiety just thinking about the book every time I think about it is like peaked.
And we need to give you a huge kudos as well because you made a great connection between 13 ghosts and James admit you just heard it. He admitted that that was a major influence for him in this story, which Aaron, I got to give you kudos when it happened that I didn't make that connection. I've obviously seen 13 ghosts and I like it, but. It didn't dawn on me as I was reading Spectrograph number one that that was a big influence for James.
Yeah, if there's one thing you can count on me, it's a movie references and pleasuring yourself and pleasuring myself. But yeah, and like I said before, we unfortunately did not get to talk to Christian a ton about City of Madness. Don't you worry, we will have Christian back on the show. I have no doubt about that. And if you want to listen to Christian and your, you know, handsome hosts here talk about. Batman's City of Madness.
I mean, go back to our recent episode where we actually talked to Christian about Batman City of Madness. And, you know, we kind of run it all down there and then we'll have him back once the I believe once the trade comes out, I'm sure we'll have him back because God, he's talking about hard covers. Oh, you're getting hard off hard cover. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's hard cover comes out. Yeah, it's a good looking book, man. It's the hard cover comes out in October.
So we'll actually be at we'll be at New York Comic Con. And we're trying everybody. Please send us your spirit energy like Dragon Ball Z. Send us all of your energy because we are trying to get Christian at New York Comic Con and it'll be a it'll be a big deal. So oh, he oh, he coming. He coming for sure. He coming. I got to fly over there, pick his ass up, bring him back. He come. Yeah, that's right. And then also like to kind of speak up what you're saying there.
And we've had Christian on the show now four times and we've talked to him about Batman, City of Madness all four times. So it's like we can't not talk about at least once, but. I will say, I think the first time we had him on, the city of madness was not a real thing. It was just an image that he was posting on Twitter. The second time it had just been announced and it was with Patrick Reynolds, right? That's when they were doing bloodstained teeth.
And then the third time was during our New York city interview, a thon or kiss face. And that entire conversation was just Batman's city of madness issue number one. And he was at New York that week as well. It was weird hanging out with him and then also releasing an episode with him that we had recorded like a month prior. And it's episode 132 in case anybody's wondering. And then, of course, this episode here, we got one question in and we were hurrying.
I'm sure you probably heard it in our voice was like, Father issues, problems. What were your thoughts? Like it was hard to get everything out. Love. Yeah. So great conversation. I'm excited how this I'm very excited by how this conversation turned out. I'm glad that we were everyone was here and it's just it's awesome. So thank you all so much for being here for episode one fifty three. Aaron, next week on the show.
We are going to take a quick pause from the interview train and we're going to get, um, actually I don't have a good, I don't have a good pun for this, but you might, uh, we're going to the Sonic universe, uh, over at Paramount plus we're going to be reviewing the entire series of knuckles. Knuckles. Knuckles. Now I think it probably goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway here live on the show. If it were up to me, we wouldn't be talking about the series at all.
But my good friend, Aaron Knowles is a pretty big Sonic fan. Wait, did I? No, uh -uh. I don't think I picked. Did I pick this? No, you did not. I'm just trying to anticipate your needs. I love you. OK. Yeah. Did you want to talk about it? You know, I think it's I'm as an aegis, Elvis Stan. Let's do it. OK, good. We can switch it up if you want. I mean, it's it's only six episodes. It looks good. Like the trailer has already come out. It looks it looks silly. Well, yeah, I mean, Sonic is silly.
Sonic, you know, I'm going to eat chili dogs the entire time. What is remind me? What is what is Knuckles? Is he a kid? No, a kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I pulled that from the recesses of my my dark nerd brain. I went down to the archives. I mean, you can't lie. And anybody I want to hear anybody's arguments to tell me that the Sonic movies are not good. Yeah, they're yeah, they're really fun. Like they're they remember. So let's just kind of go back because we've actually reviewed.
both Sonic movies on the show. I think the first Sonic was maybe one of our first 25 episodes. And then we reviewed the second one, of course. And I remember thinking as we were doing, I'm like, yeah, I mean, we're covering because, you know, you're the big video game fan and, you know, we're trying to we're trying to cover all of our bases here with movies and video games and comics and everything.
So going into it, we had that big backlash, you know, the the CGI of Sonic, the first look, everyone lost their fucking minds and they changed it. And it's been Rosie and. Sprinkles and skipping ever since it's been great. The movies have been fun.
Jim Carrey is killing it And from my understanding Aaron, I don't know if you've heard this or not But it sounds like Jim Carrey is gonna be back for the the initial or the eventual third one with shadow Yeah, I think cuz didn't yeah, there was a there was like a When it was we didn't see a body and you know the rule you don't see a body. You don't see a body Just like fucking what's her name Scarlet Witch that bitch ain't dead All right, we're getting off on a tangent here.
Anyway, we're gonna be talking about knuckles And actually, I think Aaron, that'll be the week that we go to C2E2. So we're gonna have, that could possibly be an in -person review. So be on the lookout for that one. Might be naked. You'll never know. And the thing is, as you're listening, you'll have no idea. You'll have no idea. I'm just gonna hear this. And then we'll let you guess what that was. And then you'll know.
All right, we're gonna get out of episode 153 Aaron take us out of here I love this show Subscribe to our podcast Apple podcast Spotify YouTube audible. I heart radio wherever you listen your favorite podcast Thank you to our pay Thank you to our picks by the way, just everyone's aware just to clear the air Oh, it's getting rowdy. Uh, thank you to our haters. Alex, Alice, Aaron, simmer down. Aaron, bought it from short box. Brad B, Cassidy, Chris, from the bottom of the pod.
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Last but not least, do not forget to tip your bartender 20 % or more. All right. I don't know. I don't know if that on that's going to be an ongoing thing on the show. It should not. But yeah. All right, everybody. Thank you so much. See, this is what happens when we get so wound tight for these big interviews like with James Tynan, who is the biggest.
Writer in comics and Christian Ward our good friend and also incredibly talented and one of the best artists in the industry himself The moment we get done with it. We're like All right, buddy that'll do it for episode 153. Thank you so much for listening. We will see you next week for episode 154