Hey, this is Philip Kennedy Johnson, writer of Superman and Alien, and you're listening to the Oblivion Bar podcast. Welcome to the Oblivion Bar podcast with your host, Chris Hacker and Aaron Norris. us this week on the Oblivion Bar podcast for our landmark 25th episode. We have a gentleman here who has written for both DC Marvel. He's written for Boom Studios, IDW, Aftershock, Scout Comics, I'm sure many more.
He's the heir apparent to the DC flagship Superman title and Marvel's brand new alien title. Eisner nominated writer and current United States Army member, Philip K. Johnson. Hey guys, thanks for having me. I don't know if you can hear it already, but there is an audible shutter, a quiver. in Chris's voice. I'm sweating. have two fans on me actually down here below.
That's the reason I don't know if you guys can see it, but yeah, we really, we appreciate you so much for being on here on the Oblivion bar. And no, of course, man, especially with you guys being like veterans. That's absolutely man. You read my mind. That's exactly what I was about to say. It's, know, it, made sense. The fact that you were, you know, dipping your toe into the big two, which we'll talk about here in a minute.
And the fact that you were, you know, currently in the military, obviously Aaron and I had met. while we were in the army down at Fort Stewart. So it made sense. So let's just go ahead and get right into it. Sounds good.
As someone who loves the medium of comics like Aaron and I, I think you've probably got this question a hundred times now, but just for our sake, how did you get started in the industry and what was kind of your first steps and your strategy to be recognized by these, you know, giant publishers? When I first started writing for comics, wasn't actually with the, I didn't really expect to. to break in in a meaningful way. was kind of doing it to help my brother get his foot in the door.
The way that all came about is like, mean, I had loved comics as a kid. grew up, I mean, I learned how to read off in comics, loved them. But when I finished high school and went to college, I, you know, I didn't do much reading for fun for a while. I kind of fell out of it. I wanted to be a comic artist myself as a kid, but I had, kind of gave up on that and pursued music as a career instead. And I had a younger brother who also did music and comics and drew a lot.
And he ended up going the other way. He wanted to be an artist. But didn't really know how to get started. Didn't know anything about the industry. He just liked comics and drew really well. And that's kind of all he had. And he just kind of lost as far as what to do next. And so I was like, well, dude. And I was already in the army by then. I was in one of the military bands in DC. I was a Trump player. That's my day gig even now.
I was like, well, dude, I'm in the army and they've got a job and they've got like 200 jobs. They've got this gig called multimedia illustrator where you can literally just draw and take photos and make stuff online for the military. Yeah, exactly. 25 Mike. That's right. he, uh, for those who, those are not in the biz in the online, that's inside baseball here. say, right. That's, uh, that's the, the code for that particular job. That's his MOS. So. He wanted to do it.
So he, I told him like, just come move in with me. Like we'll just, go to conventions. We'll read books about how to make comics. We'll just kind of educate ourselves together. I'll write stuff for you. Cause I love creative writing and hadn't done it in forever. Cause he didn't have any scripts. I mean, he didn't have any like pages of sequential art. He just had like pinups, you know, like a one sheet of like Wolverine looking cool or whatever, but he didn't have any like pages.
So I just started writing for him and just kind of figured out how the, how the industry works. Started going to cons and. It was just, it just really fun, man. So that worked out. ended up joining the army. did six years. Like he just, moved in with me. We just worked out every day, got jacked for, and he just had to get ready for, for basics somewhat, lose some weight and all that. And he did all that.
And he got ready for the ASVAB because there's like a, you know, it like a score you need to get 25 Mike. So he did all that, did six years and he just finished up at SCAD. He just did, he did a degree at Savannah College of Art and Design in comic art. Now we're about to make some books. And that folk is what we call an origin story. That's right. That's my origin story. I wrote stories for him to draw. Just a couple of short stories. We made a story for our sister as a gift.
And then we did just another, a bit, basically a poem for him to illustrate. Well, black and white short. And then he got in the army and started getting really busy. And I started looking for other artists to work with. And that eventually turned into The Last Sons of America, which is now Boomb Studios. That was my first printed book. Yeah. And that the book led to the next and then it sort of worked out. What an entryway into the medium too.
We're going to talk about that here in a bit, but Last Sons of America is a really great creator on book for sure. And thanks man. Scad, congratulations to your brother because that is the origin for a lot of great comic book writers and artists. mean, Donny Cates, Sean Gordon Murphy, Trad Moore, Jeff Shaw, you know that. that branch of Marvel and obviously Sean Gordon Murphy, those guys all started off in Savannah.
So he's set up for, you know, a great learning experience to hopefully get into to get into comics. So, yeah, I agree. He's doing great work now. I'm excited to see what he does next. Chris, how wild is it that we as a as a friendship, as a duo started off in Savannah, Georgia, man? Yeah, we walk those streets every, you know, every weekend, just every open containers, the whole business and. We were surrounded by some of those talent people in the medium. I'm sure that's awesome.
What years were you guys there? We were there from I was there from 2010 to 2014. OK, not long ago. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, because both Chris and I, we are together. We served Fort Stewart and we just like I owned it or I rented a house out in in Georgetown South Side. And so that's where he would he would just leave the barracks and come chill at my place over the weekend. And that's how we kind of. brew and became long term friends.
Yeah. Which is funny because like, it's weird how you just come across people that you have, like such similarities to like even you and I, we I played brass, I played trumpet for about seven years. my dad was a brass player. So that's how I got my my gig into it. And I'm currently serving I just today is actually my 17 year 17 year anniversary in the army. Dude, you're like right there. Congrats. Yeah. I didn't know that. That's awesome. Congratulations, Aaron. Yeah, thank you.
I'm, it's, it's a, it's a good feeling. What I wanted, if you don't mind, I wanted to ask, like, what are some of the challenges that come, obviously being a full-time soldier, you know, full-time service member that has its own hurdles, its own obstacles, but like, what challenges do you, do you come across, you know, being a full-time scribe for the comic book world and, and how, I don't know there's an opportunity for it, but how does your military training, how does any of that kind of.
fit into the comic book industry for you? It's I mean, as you guys know, the big thing that the army pushes constantly, but especially at the beginning is the notion of teamwork, right? Like there's now you lose your individuality and just like the biggest slam they can hit you with and basically is calling an individual. Right. Right. Or a hero. They used to use the hero like a blue falcon. Hey, hero. Exactly.
Yeah. So that that concept of just everything you do being for the good of the team is something that they push in you from the very beginning. And honestly, that's kind of not in the same way, not as aggressively, but there's a similar kind of thing in music, too, where you have to constantly just have your ears way open and be aware of everything of everything around you that's happening. It's aware of everything that's.
All the sounds coming out from everyone's horn around you, you need to be aware of all that and be reacting to everyone else's contributions constantly just to make a, you know, the one unified product. Right. And, when I got into the army, that was very, very similar. get some mindset I just fell right into. So yeah, the concept of, of team is really a valuable one. I mean, in any kind of creative pursuit, really any kind of collaboration, but in a, in small group in a, in a comic team.
creative team that it's exactly the same thing. It's like small group jazz, right? Where you've got the pencil or ink or colorist, writer, letterer, post-production and editors as well. And everyone has to be just reacting to everyone else's work. The difference between live jazz and for any kind of mission that you do as a team. And then the comic thing is that in comics, your contributions happen one at a time, but you can kind of get around that by reacting to their work.
So I turn in a script. That script is not done. I mean, it says it's done. I send it in and then it goes to the artist and then they draw. I'll get back the thumbnails, right? Like the sketches. Like here's what I had in mind and then I'll make changes based on what I'm seeing. Okay, well here's what I want to do to play to their strengths more. Like these pages kick ass. These ones need something. And I think we can make them pop a lot more if I just make these changes.
That's really interesting. Yeah, I feel like you have to. If you just send it and never see it again, I feel like you're not really collaborating. Yeah. Well, I did my job and now it's on to the next thing. Those typically do not turn out to be the best books, in my opinion. Not a collaborative effort like that. Yeah. Like you said, you have to have all facets working to make a comic work.
a lot of times, I'm glad you said that earlier, that it's the writer and artist a lot of time getting most of the bulk of the praise from the people reading it and that like. But honestly, like you said, it's Inker, Penciler, writer, editor, publicist, the whole business that make a comic. I like it because it's definitely a good metaphor for like what you said with the small group of jazz, the small jazz band. whenever I've watched some really good, I love music.
So whenever I've seen a really good small, whether it's a quartet or a little jazz band, they feed off of each other. So it's like emotion. It's what you feel off of it. So it's like one guy can change a note in a moment. And then the guys who, know, got the melody or the tempo, everything can change in just a second. So it's just based on how everybody feels. That's awesome to hear that comic writing and artistry and all that stuff kind of, you know, is the same flow, ebb and flow.
It should be. Yeah. I definitely know creators who don't feel that way and they hate getting notes. They hate getting feedback. They're like, you know, screw you. I did my job. This is perfect. But It's it's not not the people that you really look forward to working with, you know, like people that you really want to work with, those people who want to hear what you have to say that give you something reactive that you, you know, whenever.
OK, so, for example, on The Last God that I am doing at DC Black Label, that artist for Carter Fiderici is amazing, just amazing. Amazing. He's just one of the best artists working in comics ever. And he would sometimes. often stray from the scripts kind of a lot. But almost would always come back stronger. so I would, I give him the script. first I kind of expected, I'll just give him looser scripts that leave a lot of room for interpretation.
But in the end, the workflow that we settled on, because he also does not speak English as a first language, he does speak English and we can communicate. Every now and then there's detail that slips through. So instead of just giving him very vague scripts to let him fill in the details, we kind of figured out that the best way, the way they got the best product was to give him very detailed scripts with the understanding that he would just kind of do what he wanted with it.
Like basically I'm telling him a very detailed story so that he can tell the story. Yeah. And so I'd give him the script, tons of detail. It would come back, lots of changes. And then I would give him another script with those changes incorporated and maybe more change on top of that. we'll have, you know, find us either find something like a middle path or a completely different path that really changes the story that comes forward.
An example of that would be in the very first issue where, you know, the back of every issue has four pages of back matter where they would, they me just put additional stuff in the back that didn't have Ricardo's art with it. And the reason that was is because there's so much world building that they were like, we can't believe how much work you're doing. You want to some of this in the back? And that's what we ended up doing.
So we have all these like songs and ancient poems and journal entries and religious texts and stuff like in foreign languages that the reader can't even read in some cases. And, you know, so we had room for all that. At the end of the first issue, you see this palace on fire and Ricardo drew this woman in armor with a shield and I think a spear. And It just looked badass. I didn't ask for that in the script.
He just put it in there and it looked awesome, but it kind of didn't make sense because the culture that, the culture of this, it's like this ancient Rome version of this world that is very patriarchal. there's no, there's not, like women are not badasses in their mindset, you know, the way they, like it's all about the men and that culture. And it didn't make sense that they would celebrate this woman like that. If it was an Elvin woman, that would make a lot more sense.
Because in the, the Elven culture, mean, women are like, they're all equal, but that's not how humans were in this particular place. I was like, well, okay. So how we, what do do now? I didn't want to ask them to take it away because it looked awesome. And so I started this idea of, um, this bad-ass human woman from the river lands, the North, the northerners who kind of ran away from home kind of took place.
anyway, I kind of developed this whole mythology around this woman called Cule, Queen of rivers. And that became a big centerpiece of all the, not all the back matter, lot of back matter of many issues that followed. This human woman who kind of took this Joan of Arc kind of place in their culture, someone who didn't really have the standing to become a warrior, but did anyway, became a slave of the Elva and then a great war priest of the Elva, actually fought the humans herself.
And then like centuries later, she's claimed as a great hero by both cultures. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. And they both have very different stories about how she came to be this amazing person and who she really was. You know. So anyway, it just helped flesh out the story a lot. I could have just been like, no, that's not right. You know, this doesn't work. You should take it out or, you know, make it a dude. But I feel like reacting to what he did instead made it a much richer story.
Kind of draws that creativity out a little bit. Yeah, exactly. And there's even like in issue three, there's this thing where you see spoilers in the first issue, you see the king as this monster thing. He's been transformed. And I was going to show him again in issue three and the monster that Ricardo drew instead was completely different and way more badass. It was just, it looked incredible and it looked too good not to use.
so I changed, like that affected everything that came later, like the whole. arc of the story changed completely. That's a good problem to have. Yeah, it's an important, I think it's an important thing to do. guess really you need to, you need to respect your artists and let them do their, know, let them be your collaborator, not your, they don't work for you just because their step comes later doesn't mean they work for you, but you work together.
Yeah. That reminds me, I was reading the back of Saga Book One. They talked about how Fiona created the character Ghost, the little otter character. Brian K. Vaughan had absolutely no, he had no plans for Gus at all. was just supposed to be like a background character that Fiona included. And when he saw that character, he's like, this is going to be an important character going forward from now on. And he is from there on.
So you love to hear those stories of artists really, like you said, being creative. And then you can figure out a way to be adjustable and put them in the story somehow. Yeah, that's important. So to quickly go back to talk about Last Sons of America, it's such a unique and really interesting story. This is the very first work that I ever read by you. And I'm just curious, where does something like that come from?
And then also with that, is there any truth to the Peter Dinklage as Julian rumors with Matt Reese producing a Netflix film? Have you heard these rumors or is this confirmed? Yeah, that's well, Netflix. OK. Yeah, I mean, I mean, Dinklage is going to be in it if it gets made for sure. and Matt Reeves company is making it, which is pretty rad. Yeah, that's amazing. Netflix did option it. OK. I mean, that's not a rumor. That's like that's out there. They did. And eventually they did pass on it.
So now it's out there, but there are still plans to develop it and there are still big people attached. So that movie could still very, very much happen. And I'm pretty optimistic about his chances in the long run.
Sure. So where does that where does that idea come from this you know this future where you have to essentially you know kids cannot be born anymore in America so basically you have these two brothers who are down in I think they're in South America correct and they're yeah they're essentially trying to buy these kids to ship them back to America for these wealthy white families essentially.
Yeah yeah so at the time okay I had the idea for that book probably around 2010 I it was 2010 because that's that's when these Um, this massive earthquake hit Haiti around that time. And, um, at that time, my wife and I were trying to get pregnant. It looks like it looked at the time, like it was not going to happen. Um, and so infertility was kind of just already on my mind kind of, and then this thing in Haiti happened. became this big humanitarian crisis.
Um, so I heard this radio piece about this group of. Americans, like an American church sent a mission group down there to ostensibly rescue kids who had been orphaned to help find them homes. But they end up grabbing a bunch of kids that still had families and trying to get them out of the country. And like, like literally trying to smuggle children out of Haiti during in the middle of all this crap that's happening. And The problem down there is that they didn't have the one problem.
mean, one of many things that made it more complicated was that they didn't have the infrastructure that we would have here. Like if there was a big earthquake here, like in my hometown, and there were kids running around, like their homes are destroyed or whatever, you know, people have phones, people have addresses, there's cops everywhere, there's emergency services, there are things in place that will help reunite the survivors, right?
Right. There were places in Haiti where that was not happening. So it was becoming very difficult for some people to find each other down there and then in the wake of all this destruction. So it's kind of gray about how it went down after that. If they, if they did it on purpose, like everyone's kind of saying different things, but it was super, super shady. And that kind of, around the same time I was also doing a lot of anti-human trafficking work in Baltimore.
Wow. And that was a huge thing in my mind constantly. and this thing in Haiti, it got me reading about the for-profit adoption industry and a lot of problems with it and ways in which it is unethical. How there are kids overseas who are, in some cases, just sold by their parents to orphanages because they just can't afford to have them. And so they make, you know, like a little like just chump change from a local orphanage.
And those orphanages will in turn sell those kids like retailers to to adoption agencies here or wherever in places where there's money, you know? So you've got, and sometimes they have these sob stories where, yeah, this poor child, their parents died from whatever, like displaced by this civil war, you know, it's not always true. Very often that kid still has a family back home that just gave them up. And, you know, it's just a different scene that I didn't know anything about.
And then that sort of consumed me too. So now I've got all these kind of disparate ideas in my head of, you know, infertility and human trafficking and adoption and, you know, third world countries. And they all kind of coalesced around this idea of a world in which Americans couldn't have kids anymore. What was it? What if it was us? And then human trafficking became legit. And then that's just the way that we make families after that.
What if buying these kids the way that we really do in real life? What if that became the only way that we could have families? Yeah. And that became the the beginning of last sons of America. Wow. Did that happen to at all kind of help you get over some of those feelings that you had? Like was, was writing this story kind of almost therapeutic for you or I mean? Yeah, sure. No, it definitely was. mean, honestly, these days I don't do as much human trafficking work as I did.
And it's like, I feel kind of bad about it, but you know, I'm just trying to keep up with my current workload. I need to find a way to do more again, but it's, mean, there was a time when I had to just distance myself from it because it was just like killing me. Yeah. Just completely consuming me. And I had like no joy in my life because I was just. so enraged all the time, you know? Yeah. So there was a time when I had to take distance from it.
But that aside, and yeah, this book was very helpful in just getting that stuff out, just putting out messages that I care about a lot, kind of dressing it up in the comic booky way and making it kind of so it's not just an emotional beating, or you can just read it and have fun reading it. I wanted the banter between the brothers to be, you know, kind of upbeat and just fun to read and cool to read and not just you know, just wall or in the bleakness of it.
Yeah. It's packaging, you know, it's patching packaging, something not so pretty, but still informing people about what's going on and also kind of using real world experiences to not only help you get over what you've experienced, but helping people learn about what's actually going on. Because, I mean, that's that's crazy. Like, I mean, I, you know, we all know that in the military, we get a lot of human trafficking education and things like that.
But there's certain things like this that they just You learn like this is this this is human trafficking. You're like, I've never even, you know, considered that that's that's insane. So it's different to hear it and see it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And what for sure. What I think the benefit I think of of writing and you know, that's probably better than anyone and especially in comics is that it's a power fantasy all the time.
So you have this ability, like in your story with, you know, Jackie and Julian, where you can essentially they not sorry spoilers for The Last Sons of America, but they They end up saving the girl from the overlord there in South America. So yeah. Do you have a you know, sorry not to break it into something not you know, from what we're just talking about. But do you have a fan cast for Jackie since we have as we have Julian? That's actually been cast to. really? By who? Yeah. I can't tell you.
I shouldn't say it. Okay. Even I mean the information you guys already have was out there because it got leaked. okay. So I don't want to be that guy that leaks more. there is a cast and it's perfect. man. That's exciting. Speaking of more information on something that you may or may not be able to talk about, this is something that I'm kind of like personally invested in. I got to ask. I'm a huge aliens fan. my God. Me too. I have like I have just books.
I've been reading the novels, everything from Alien vs. Predator to Predator to just aliens. The books, everything. So I have to ask, what was your like major inspiration for taking it on? Because I mean, come on, we all know that this is this is a heavy, heavy workload. It's heavy, heavy lore. And then what's your what's your favorite aliens run? And then if you have any info you can give us about the comics, because I know I'm to be definitely invested in that one. Oh, thanks, dude.
I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. Well, I mean, me too. I found out that I mean, you've heard my other You said you heard my other show with word balloon. So you probably know some of this, but I, I found out with everyone else that Marvel had gotten the license for that. And I was just like, just like flipping the table. Like, yes, it's going to be awesome. And I reached out to my editor, like, give me this book. You know, like I'm, you don't know anyone who loves it like I do.
And, and they fucking did it, man. I was, I was so stoked about that. I, I was like, oh man, I don't even know what, even now I'm so just like energized. If OK, if we're talking about my favorite Dark Horse runs, I really liked Alien Salvation that Gibbons and Mignola did. yeah. That book. Yeah, it was really beautifully done. One of the more iconic. Yeah, it's a great one. James Tocco won Dead Orbit and also was also really fun. It's like it's so stylish, like visually is just just works.
know, I was the first one that I read and I, Dead Orbit was just so intense and beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I love the art for it. I love the contrast, visual contrast of the Giger alien. For listeners who don't know, H.R. Giger being the artist who designed the concept look of the Xenomorph. That and then with the super busy, almost Jeff Darrow approach to the, to our ships. You know, like the way that our structures look so busy and blocky and just very different in contrast.
It's always really fun for me to see that. That was something from the original film that I really liked. And when the second film to actually where you see the, you know, that, then a stroma was so not aesthetically pretty. It's like this blocky, ugly thing. And, you got these, you know, construction workers working on it. It's just a workplace. It's nothing, it's nothing pretty at all.
Yeah. And then you see the derelict that is like, suddenly you see the derelict ship and it's this crazy, almost organic looking thing. And then you see, Giger's work superimposed with. this ugly chunky thing. And that's how Stakoe did that book. I thought it was really great to see that same kind of contrast. He just did a kickass job with that book. I admit it's the visuals that really strike me in that one and the storytelling in the Dave Gibbons one. yeah, I love both of those books.
There's so many, though. There's so many great runs that they did. It's almost hard to keep them all straight. So I got a recommendation for you, though. If you ever get a chance, I actually just came here. I was stationed over in Germany and I took a trip to Switzerland and there's actually a Giger museum.
I know I I'm dying to get over there and then and then right next door to it in this because it's it's basically a small little mountain town and there's the museum there and then right next door to it is an alien themed bar restaurant. Yeah, I've seen it. You seen it. Yeah. All the food is alien themed like the like the some of the shots are like green like it's blood, it's beautiful. Oh, I got to go see it. I will. I definitely will. It's on the list.
Even the chairs are like the same as the as the pilot from. know. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen it. I've seen every photo there is. I can't wait to get over there. So is your alien run? Is that that going to be is that going to be ongoing or do you have a set amount of issues that you're planning on doing? The series is ongoing. OK. Now the but this first arc. OK, so we I was mostly inspired by the first two films. for this particular arc.
think there's things from the other subsequent movies that are also really great, but those first two movies are like the shit, right? Like everyone knows about those first two movies. Yeah. And they're very different. I love how different they are, but also how great they are on their own. There's aspects of both that I really had to have in this run. I love the claustrophobia, the first one, the idea of the like just the blue collar workers trapped with this thing.
This is one thing that's hunting them. I think that's just so it's like this perfect horror film, which was the biggest inspiration for my first book, like the Lost Boys of the U-Boat Bremen. It's this webcomic that is still on my site. Ended up getting printed with IDW's Full Bleed anthology as well. But that was all about, like the elevator pitch for that was Ridley Scott's Alien meets Lord of the Flies on a U-Boat. That Ridley Scott film was just so a part of me. So I had to have that.
But then The second movie, the James Cameron Aliens cast such a long shadow. I mean, everyone just loves that movie. When I was a kid, I was on TV every day. Seemed like, you know, away from her, you bitch. Yeah. Yeah. And this is so it's so quotable. The whole movie. mean, Bill Paxton is fire that. yeah. All right. You get the morbid. Yeah. It's so so I mean, I couldn't not acknowledge that movie, too. So this.
This arc was meant to take my favorite pieces of both of those runs and make this one thing that felt like it belongs on the shelf with those films. The one failing that I feel like the Dark Horse books had as a whole, if you were to have the entire compendium of all the alien stuff they ever did, I feel like you wouldn't read those and necessarily think of the films.
It got so far from the source material, got so creative, which is awesome, but also didn't feel like the same thing at a certain point. So you're saying you didn't like resurrection. That's what I'm saying. I also put a resurrection in that same pile. This stuff that didn't make sense to me as far as belonging in the same can everything else. It just felt like it's hard, hard left turn into stuff. To me, seemed kind of silly. So I was always a huge fan of the the novels.
Like I said, they a lot of them take place on Earth. You know, there's a lot of high alien hides, a lot of alien queens that have taken hold of Earth. The colonial Marines are trying to get into the hives and nuke them out. One of my favorites is about the alien queen's jelly. It's actually like a narcotic. jelly, yeah.
Royal jelly, which is awesome because there's like a scene in one of the books where this Olympic runner is like juicing with the alien juice, whatever, and just basically runs straight into a wall and disintegrates. It's intense. I love the book. I just love the whole lore. Yeah, I'm excited to see what you do with it. I got high hopes for you, man. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's I am. It's mostly inspired by the first two movies.
So there's a lot of stuff that you've seen in Dark Horse books and the novels and all that that will not appear here. Because honestly, I feel like at some point they're going to do what they did with Star Wars, where there's going to be because, you know, the aliens are that's like their Disney princess now. It's all Disney.
Yeah. So I feel like at some point there's going to be like alien legends where there's going to all this stuff that is like subtext for bullshit and then it doesn't count anymore. And just take all the things that work from the legend and bring it into canon. Exactly. I don't want that to happen here. So and even though I really like the third film, I feel like that is that one is ripe for retconning because of the way they got rid of Hicks and Newt. Yeah, right. Right. Died off screen.
Yeah. I mean, that kind of sucks, right? I thought the movie was really good, but it sucks to lose those characters for nothing. And I feel like that James Franco and and covenant. Yeah. Yeah, that was weird. I did like covenant lot though. I like the prequels more than most people to the one. The one I can't stand by resurrection. I love all the others. I'm sure like he refuses to claim resurrection.
He's like after that movie, I will never ever let a production company tell me what to do with my film. He did three, right? I'm sorry. Yes. Yeah. Not resurrection. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. I get it. I get it. I understand why he feels that way. I know that he's got jerk around a lot on that on that production. But Honestly, I liked it. liked the ass.
Well, the things I liked about it most were the ceiling and seeing the quadruped alien, like seeing it come from something that wasn't human was really rad. Seeing the different, like seeing the off world, like a little more world building, see another, not without seeing earth, you get to see another culture of humans, which is really rad. I like the religious aspect of it. I thought it was a perfect ending for Ripley. That's where I should have ended for her in my opinion.
So there things I really liked, but the first two films are the ones that inspired this book. And for people who love those two films, they're going to be well-served with this run. So that's the first arc I'm talking about. do want to, if I get to stay around and write more Alien, which I would love to do, there are other arcs in mind that are going to start to develop those themes and keep going down the road.
We're inspired by the films also, and that each one is its own special thing that belong as alone. And then they're also tied to the others through like little like through lines and subplots and all that, like the androids and the seeing like visually seeing the aliens get more interesting as you go.
It's like this baby steps like aliens and then the queen and then the dog one or the ox one, whichever one you've So we're going to keep building on that, too, as if as if this is the third movie, basically. Yeah. Is there any involvement with Predators. Not in my first, not in this arc. No. Okay. And I know you maybe in the future. Yeah. I don't want to say never, but yeah. Not again. I'm trying to start simple and like give people like another pure another power alien film, you know?
Yeah. And that's, and that's what, yeah, I think that was the beauty of the first and the second one because the third one obviously took it to, it was like you said, it was good, but it took it to a place that we could have done without. Yeah. So good. The first and the second one took an entire new universe that introduced this alien species and it took their entire sense of reality by storm. Right. Which, know, the third one and onward didn't really do that.
It didn't really take away anything because their realities were not what, you know, what they were used to in the first place. Yeah. I definitely look forward to it. Oh, thanks. So transitioning to your next big title in 2021, we're going to talk about Superman here. And I wanted to speak kind of broadly here. So in recent years, Superman, I feel like it's kind of gotten a little bit harder to appeal to mainstream audiences outside of people like us, the comic book community.
And obviously, as someone who loves Superman, myself included, I personally think that we probably need him more now than ever with the way the world is currently. with the surging popularity of anti-heroes and the Batmans of the world, what do you think the challenges are? that you're going to be facing going forward with your run of Superman, approaching the man of tomorrow. Essentially, I was going to try to think of a funny nickname for him.
And then do you have a go-to favorite Superman run that you really enjoy? Yeah, man. I I hate to favorites because there's been a lot of great writers over the years and I don't want to crap on anyone who's not in my top three. But I do really like Mark Waid's take on the character. I liked the way he depicted him in Kingdom Come. liked how he, shoot, what's the one, Birthright was really great. Jeff Loeb's version on Superman for All Seasons was really good.
Grant Morrison did an amazing job on All-Star Superman. That's kind of, if I had to, I'm sorry, what did you hold up just I was holding up my All Four Seasons. was going to show you. Come on, nice. I have All Four Seasons, Jeff Johns, The Men of Tomorrow, and then I have my most recent favorite. Superman smashes the clan. These are top three favorite Superman stories of all time. No, I am embarrassed to admit I've not picked that one up yet. Yeah, you got it. You got to do it.
Yeah. No, everyone's freaking out about it. his address, Chris. Send it to him. Media mail. Yep. I got it. it. He gets comms from DC. I'm not sending him anything. Yeah, exactly. I'll get on it. Let's see. Yeah, Grant Morrison's All-Star is if I had to pick just one, it's so well done. Just sums up everything he's ever been in one. You know, right. I love it. I love it. I love his voice in that in that book. yeah, those are great. As far as we said about antiheroes, I yeah, it's gone.
I mean, it's so obvious right now that the world needs it, right? I mean, this has been such a dark time. And I feel like doing a dark, gritty take on Superman is not doing anyone any favors. I Superman is supposed to be the one character that's more than any other character that's above that. Even more than cap, you know, it's more than anyone that she should be should be the the one incorruptible You know pure voice of hope and light. So that's how I see him.
I've The feeling that I get the feeling that I want from reading Superman is a feeling that I got watching the original films like the first two films when I was a little kid and Just seeing him on stage and hearing the trumpet sale when he comes out and seeing just that just literally just seeing the costume, seeing the S-Shield on screen or in the opening credits. And when the music kicks in and you're just, it just makes you want to be so much more than you are.
And that's the feeling that that aspirational, like I'm literally getting those tingles right now, just thinking about those moments. Like just, I want that, that sensation of, you know, we're going to do this thing and making us want to fly and want to save everyone. That's the feeling that we need, man. We need it right now. That's what I was feeling. I want from the stuff that I'm watching and reading. That's the feeling I want to give to people.
I've really tried to capture it in my future state issues that are coming out. Cause at the time, as far as I knew that was all, that was the only superman I was going to get to do. like this, these superman future state issues are kind of my mission statement on what Superman is. So, I mean, you're asking about influences. I've been, been flashing this on a lot of my podcasts because I just had it. on hand here, but this is Superman 400. That was a very important issue to me as a kid. wow.
didn't get that many. I didn't get that many comics that were like new back then. Most of my comics came from these boxes and ripped up books that came from like garage sales and flea markets and stuff, which were still great. I loved them. And I just, didn't have any, I didn't have a lot of stuff that was new off the shelf. And this is one that was new issue at the time. And the list of people who worked on this is an anthology book.
And the people who did the art are like, I'm seeing Ray Bradbury, John Byrne, Howard Shaken, Steve Ditko, Will Eisner, Jack Kirby, Frank Miller, Mobius. gosh. It's insane. That is an all star cast right there for real. Bernie Wrightson, Steranko. man. Walter Simonson. I mean, I'm skipping like Bills and Cabots. It just it never ends. What's the name of that try there? Or the issue? This is Superman 400. It said at the top, says anniversary issue 400. Gotcha. OK. And in there, there's stories.
Not every one of those artists did a story. Some of them are just pinups. you'll see stuff in here. Look, Steve Ditko doing Superman. How often have you seen that? Yeah, no kidding. Wow. There's an image of of Mobius. There's a pinup that he did that looks. Right out of. God, the Ridley Scott produced show recently raised. Raised by Wolves. Yeah, Raised by Wolves. I'm watching that currently. Yeah. It's great, dude. And Ridley Scott openly says that he was hugely influenced by Mobius.
And there's this image that looks straight up like a Mobius. I mean, that looks like something right on that show. Let me find it. But yeah, this is... Here it is. Yeah. Yeah. I yeah. I just read Parable not too long ago and Mobius is one of a kind. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that book, to quote Bendis, he would describe, he actually talked about that book recently too on the interview.
So this is his first time seeing Superman as art, experiencing Superman as art and like capital A, like fine art, you know? Yeah. And that's kind of how I see that book too. It's just, it's a, theme of the book was Superman in the future. Like, what's he going to be like in the future? What is he going to mean to us in the future? What's he going to, where's he going to be? What's he going be doing? That was the theme that kind of tied the whole book together.
And, um, that and future state, that's what that is. And that book meant so much to me as a kid, I really wanted to kind of pay homage to that, that book. So the first issue of future state, worlds of war is basically, um, humanity's take on Superman, like how he, how we remember him after he's gone. And then the next issue is his take on us. That's good. I like that concept. Thank you. And it's still it's a two issue arc.
I one story, but it's from two different perspectives that I'm extremely proud of. And Mikhail Haneen did the art and he just obliterates it. I can't wait to able to read that story. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I'm really liking the future state stuff has all been good. Really good so far. I I really enjoyed the swamp thing one and then the son of Krypton. I'm forgetting the writer of it, but that was really great as well. so you made a Metropolis? I'm sorry. Yeah, Metropolis.
Yeah. Sean's great, man. He did a really had a really fun take on Jonathan. yeah. Yeah. Everything I've seen of all the future say stuff has been killer. And I love the I love listening to you and John talk on word balloon and your take on John. I'm sorry. Yeah, John. And how, you know, for a while we were really getting used to him, especially with Super Suns. Such a great run there with Peter Tomasi and Patrick Gleason. And then Bendis his runs.
I mean, it's been top notch from start to finish. And, I think the only thing that people are maybe not as happy with, if anything, is John being forced to grow up, essentially being out in space with his grand grandfather. So I know you've already said that you're not going to go back and, and, know, switch that up. And I'm curious to see if you do anything with the John. I know you said a lot of your Superman is going to be out in space, a lot of science fiction Superman for your run.
So I'm curious to see what you do with him, especially. Yeah. I wish I could tell you more, but it's. I mean, I know that people are super pissed about the John thing. I hear that all that. mean, I'm not I'm not doing any disservice by saying that. I hear about every single day. Yeah. I get like threats from people like you better not do this or do this other thing instead. I'm not going to buy your book if you don't make John 10 again.
And it's the thing is, man, like, I don't know what show I said this on, but at some point I was telling somebody it's it's kind of like I'm in the middle of like I'm about to take over the second chapter of a Star Wars trilogy. Right. You are Ryan Johnson. Yeah. I mean, nobody can fault either J.J. or Ryan Johnson as directors. Obviously, they're both incredible directors and storytellers. And I feel like a trilogy by either one of those guys would have been killer.
But when they when they kept doing this 180 back and forth, it just kind of ruined the whole thing, in my opinion. So I'm not interested in doing that, I guess. I don't want to just take over and be like, well, now we're going to find a magic wormhole and everything's different. And now everyone, you know, I'm not going to do like a one more day thing, Spider-Man thing where now suddenly, you know, no one remembers who Spider-Man, I don't know. I erase everything that Bendez did.
Yeah. You don't want to do that. It's super. Well, for one thing, it's incredibly disrespectful to do that. Like Bendez is one of my industry heroes who's done some of most important stuff ever. It amazing. Created Miles Morales. Maybe the Avengers, one of the best books on shelves. He he's the man. And I have a great deal of respect for him. I'm not going to just I'm not going to crap on anything he did that way. It's just so disrespectful.
Plus, I mean, these are the cards that we've been done. And this is where Superman is now. And I don't have a problem with most of the stuff he did anyway. I mean, I totally I honestly I do miss John as a kid. I really do. That run with P. Tomasi was great. Super Sons was great. But it did give us opportunities to do some really cool storytelling stuff. I mean, seeing him in Legion in the future has been great. need to read that. It's great. Bendis is doing really well.
He really nails John's voice and the voice of the other characters as well in Legion. He's so well suited to like team books. And especially when the characters are youngish, he gets that that banter so well. just love the way he writes teams. So that, Legion is really well suited to Bendis. And yeah, so we have these opportunities to tell stories with John. And the thing is comics are all about the illusion of change anyway.
And I think there's not going to be, there's nothing that says we can't see John Young again someday. It's too soon to do that right now. would love to see John as a kid later on. Maybe they'll have an opportunity to tell a story myself, or if not, I'd love to see someone else do it. But for now.
This is where John is, and we have opportunities to tell really cool stories with him at this age, like things that like what does this mean for him as a character to just not tell that aspect of his character and just undo it all would be insane. Well, we don't have to get into it too much, but real quick before we move on, were you a fan of The Last Jedi? And just know that your your current career is on the line depending on your answer.
There is a mob currently waiting outside your house for whatever you decide. Go. I'm scared. Mob already came and went. work in DC. Oh, that's right. Yeah, you are in DC. Let's see. There were things about Last Jedi I liked a lot. There were things that I did not like as much. I thought it was really, it's awesome seeing Luke again, of course. It makes sense to me that he would be in self-imposed exile. That's kind of the Jedi play, right? So that's what they do.
I mean, they mess up and they just kind of go off in exile. Yeah, mean, Yoda's on Dagobah, Obi-Wan's hanging out and just watching the baby sitting on Tatooine. And now Luke is off by himself at the Jedi Temple. It makes sense to me. And I liked his voice. I like where he's at as a character. There things about that made sense. I you can't just start out with Luke being like, you've come to find me and now I'm ready to take up my mantle and blah, blah.
It makes sense that he would have to start from a different kind of place to get back to where he's a hero again. Yeah. Might be a little jaded. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. And I thought the final battle was really cool. I do wish he was really there. But the way he kind of punks the whole empire is the first order was really clever. I thought very well done. Visually, the whole thing is perfect. I love the like all the that, you know, that desert.
The race and that when you step on it, you see red. Yeah, really just so striking. And it also and then you realize that Luke hasn't been making any footprints, which is also really cool. Such a cool, you know, small detail that you it's a way to go back and look at it and notice that Ryan didn't put any of those footsteps in such a cool moment. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the things that I love the whole thing with the whole mission to the casino thing. didn't make any sense.
Toy didn't need to be there. Yeah. And then they fail anyway. And I'm like, I don't know what's happening. Yeah. The subtlety is not anywhere to be seen. Yeah. Yeah, there there were mistakes. Mistakes were made. Yeah. But I feel the same way about the JJ stuff, I mean, I feel like Finn was by far the most underserved character in the series. Absolutely. That character is super lame. Yeah. And he didn't have to be. He should be the best character in the series. He built up.
much until he was even able to handedly a lightsaber and then. Yeah, just yells Ray the next two movies. Well, you know, all did. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. He should have been the best character in the series and he could have been. He was this this kid who was stolen as he was trafficked himself by the empire to be a goddamn stormtrooper. And then like he's and he he takes off later. He makes a decision to leave. Yeah. What must he.
You know, I'm the guy that loves to do world building as we've established. Yeah. And think about you have a character who has raised his entire life to be a stormtrooper and then ran away. What would he be like? He wouldn't be all like Jokey and I don't know, like his whole the whole portrayal of him. Like he should be a different kind of character, in my opinion. Like he's a rifleman soldier. You ever saw that? No, actually. All right. I'm actually a Scott film as well.
And I think they've actually said it's tied into the whole, you know, Blade Runner aliens for like same universe. So soldier with Kurt Russell, I think it came out, I want to say late nineties. God. Okay. Basically, it's, you know, children, children construct or constricted constricted into us into, you know, being in the military. And they're basically brainwashed to be like just selfishly serve or selflessly serving their government. Well, that sounds I'm embarrassed. I don't know about that.
I'm making an amazing film. All right. I'll check it out. Yeah. But yeah, I want to I want to see somebody who's a little more fucked up. You know, I want to see somebody who's been brainwashed his whole life and is trying to turn that around. But instead, he's like, woohoo, I'm free. He's like super happy and kind of without any real skills that matter. Right. Yeah. I'm like, they could have made him so bad ass and so different than the other characters.
And he's like, he's even for sensitive, apparently. Mm hmm. Explore that like that could and had a great actor to play him. Yeah. That's that. And he said he was a janitor. He's literally a janitor. Then why was he on a death squad? Right. Well, I mean, soldier first, I guess. Right. Yeah, exactly. You know, cooks, cooks, here in a village and murdering everybody. Yeah. I mean, apparently I was like his actual first time seeing death. He's like. I'm out. And he didn't even run away.
be like, it wasn't like screw the empire. It was like, I'm a coward. Yeah. Yeah. So it's that that character, just the concept of that character is so great. And then the execution was so poor. So that's that's probably my biggest problem with the whole series is like Finn was completely underserved. It should have been should have been the crowning jewel of the whole thing.
So with you having we'll get back on our interview topics, but with you finally being able to dip your toes into the big two. Is there a character from each publisher that you'd love to get your hands on eventually? And then do you have any more creator owned projects you're currently working on that you can tell us about? Let's see, big two. Yeah, I've got a I've got a Batman story. I've gotten the chance to write Batman a couple of times and I read your story. Your green arrow one.
I read that one. Thank you. With the cape. It was awesome. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. And I got to write him in the Tales Dark Multiverse, which is super fun to see like an alternate reality version of him, which was great. I'd love to do like a long form story with Batman. And I have a murder mystery that I want to do with him that I got an idea, specific idea that I want to do, kind like my my version of Long Halloween, you know.
Nice. But I mean, even in other contexts, I'd love to write Batman, Batman, Superman, one of my big heroes growing up. They both represent such different power fantasies. Yeah. I love the idea of the guy that just made himself into this thing and can do anything based on his will. So I'd love to do that. Aside from him, I would say Constantine all day. yeah. I love Constantine and I, I said, got the opportunity to pitch for him once and I gave him like a dozen pitches.
And like I, and some of them were already in the back of my head. And I, at the time, like then there was this big switch. There was a big, changeover and then the editor I was pitching was no longer doing Constantine. So I had to actually eventually became my Aquaman annual instead. But, anyway, those are my two big ones at DC, but I also love Jason Todd. I have a very specific idea of who Jason's supposed to be. Yeah. And it's now we've seen in the books most recently.
And I there's a version of Jason Todd. I want to show everyone. So I would love to do that. And Marvel of him. I cosplayed Jason Todd. He's like one of my number one like costumes. That's awesome. His look is so great, especially like when he first came out of the gate, you know, the Matt Wagner design that he gave the Red Hood when they brought Jason back is just iconic. It was instantly iconic. Yeah. Yeah. For Marvel. I love Moon Knight, but everyone does.
He's like this wish list character for a lot of writers. And apparently the book typically does not sell well. They did Moon Knight with Bendis and Alex Malief. That's a good one. When Bendis was at the height of his powers at Marvel, he was crushing everything he was doing. I love that book. And apparently like that. then after that, you see Jeff Lemire doing it and Max Bemis. There's all these great people. Warnel's one's really good too. Which one? Warren Ellis. Yes, exactly.
Yeah, it's like a four. Yeah. Yeah, I've got it. Yeah. I love Moon Knight. And there's been a lot of things. I've been so many kind of recreations of Moon Knight and you can kind of get away with it because he's so crazy. He's like as crazy as Batman probably should be. Right. Right. And I love that. So he's he's read. I'd love to write Doctor Strange. I'd love to write more cap. I've done a cap thing. I'd love to do more. I love Bucky. Yeah. And not even just.
Not just Winter Soldier, but like Bucky. Like I want to see like like a teenage psycho Bucky. Well, they kind of did that recently with Kyle Higgins run. Have you read that one? The Kyle Higgins recent core issue where he had like the sidekick. Yeah. And the sidekick is kind of a crazy guy that the Winter Soldier kind of converts over to the good side. Yeah. Yeah. I think Winter Soldier is a great character too. And I kind of have this fantasy of writing like a, a Kill Squad book.
World War Two era kill squad with cool like Wolverine Bucky like when he's still a kid and I can I can different version of Ghost Rider. You could do like your Mike Nick Fury could be in there perhaps. Yeah, exactly. You know, yeah. Yeah, like that'd rad as hell. That would be super. I would be that would be pretty dope. So anyway. And then do you do you create your own stuff that you potentially want to do that you are working on? I do really feel I do.
I'm doing a different kind of fantasy book right now. It's not revealed yet. can't say anything about it. And honestly, we don't have a publisher yet. So it's still extremely early. But the art is insanely good. And it's very different from Last God. It's not the same kind of thing, but it's also a high fantasy. I'm very proud of it. I hope it finds a home soon and I can't wait to talk about it. I'm also doing a kid's book called The Moon Dragon, called Arlo the Moon Dragon.
that I'm doing for my, some I'm making for my son with a friend of mine named Dustin Malik. He's the colorist that was on Smoketown at Scout Comics. And he's a very talented illustrator himself. So he and I are doing a kid's together right now and that's been really fun too. Oh cool. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. Then I have another, I have another big two book coming together too and I can't talk about yet, that's that'll be out later this year. Secrets. Can you say for which of the two?
I probably shouldn't. Okay. It's pretty early. Just trying to, just trying to, you know, just get you for everything. Does rhyme with Carvel? Anyway, plead the fifth moving on. Well, actually, I mean, concludes pretty much what we have for you. We honestly we cannot thank you enough for being here with us today. It's such a pleasure. Such an honor to talk to you. And it was, you know, like I said, we've heard you talk to John on word balloon and other interviews and such.
But honestly, it's just great to sit here and kind of go back and forth, talk about things that. Equally we all love and kind of pick your brain on what you have coming in 2021. Cause you know, I think I speak for everyone. I say this is going to be a big year for you and we're really looking forward to following your career and maybe even at some point, hopefully having you back here on the above in bar. Thank you, man. I'd love that. Thank you guys for your service and for having me on.
Yeah, thank you for being an inspiration to, pretty much, you know, like I said, you brought a soldier under your wing and helped him kind of, you know, enter the new world of the army for him. And you know, you're, are what I would like to share to my soldiers as a, as an example of what somebody can truly do, you know, with what they've learned or what they know with the military and turn it into something that's even bigger, you know, not just hobby, but sheer love of something.
thank you, man. Thanks for saying that. I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. It's, definitely, it's a, it is a standard that, that I believe everybody should be able to, you know, look up to. I, so thank you for that. Yeah, man. My pleasure. Thank you. And honestly, if you guys would like to follow Philip in his career, we'd recommend that you do. He's on Twitter at Philip K. Johnson on Twitter and Instagram, correct? Yeah. Instagram is Philip underscore Kennedy underscore Johnson. OK.
Yeah. And then Twitter was Philip K. Johnson. And then his website is Philip Kennedy Johnson dot com. And yeah, thanks so much, Phil. We appreciate it. Thank you guys.