Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Today I have something that frankly we should have talked about a really long time ago. I just needed to find the time to bring on Judith Gatton. I'm going to interview her today on Lots of different aspects of confidence and body image. She is an image consultant. She helps a lot of women to develop their style and really how they want to show up in the world. But here is the thing that I really want to stress.
When I... encounter patients that are either on a weight loss journey or have lost weight or want to lose weight, whatever it might be. There is this lack of being in touch with what you actually look like at the moment and then what you're looking like as you're going along this road.
And this is something that ends up showing up where I hear comments from patients and I bring this up in the interview, it breaks my heart with just sort of feeling that you've let yourself go so far or that you don't even know where to start. Or just comments where. You don't feel like your outside reflects how you feel on the inside. And a lot of this is body image work.
And it's not something, you know, we joke about this in the episode, but it's not something where you right away do hours and hours of mirror work where you look at yourself naked in the mirror. That's not the answer here.
And this work is very important because If you end up in a body that you're uncomfortable with, even if you lose weight, maybe you've never actually been at a lower weight, maybe you've never experienced the world in a different way, and this is actually really hard to navigate. I'm telling you, I daily talk to patients about this. So today, Judith Katon is going to come on. She is someone that if you have not followed me for a while, I myself have worked with her.
Multiple times over the past few years, I go yearly to her in person retreat. They are absolutely amazing. My clinic would not be existing today if it were not for a few people in my life. And she's one of them. I want to share a quick story. I forgot to talk about this in the interview with her, but last year I went to her retreat in October and she presented it as a style and glamour retreat. And here's the thing about me.
I don't care at all about how I dress or what I look like or makeup or any of it. But I went because it was a small group and I know that her coaching is just the most amazing thing in the world. So I go on this trip and over a year ago my business looked very different. It was very fragmented as far as on one side I was doing medicine and on the other side I was doing coaching.
And as I was Going forward, I really realized these two need to be fused, the patients need this, it needs to not be something bulky and disjointed where this is separated from that. I also realized there are unique recommendations and unique coaching that needs to happen for patients specifically. And I can't say those in groups that are not medical and vice versa. So I was going through a lot of these conflicts of kind of how do I want to change things, stuff like that.
And if any of you are business owners, you know that When you have things that are established and working years ago, I had a group coaching membership with a colleague of mine and we were successful. We were doing great. We loved it. We loved working with each other. We loved the women in our membership. Everything was good, but I wanted to go in a different direction.
And through going to that trip, it was four days of us sitting there every day coaching for hours and hours talking very small intimate group. Me and Judith one night. It was actually the last night before I went home. I can't believe I'm sharing all this. So, we're in this small kind of boutique hotel, and there's a pool right there. All the rooms kind of face inward toward this pool, and I'm someone that normally go, this is all going to come full circle.
I normally go to sleep, early, but I'm in Palm Springs. It's a gorgeous evening. The temperature is nice. The stars are out and there's a pool there and I say, why am I not going to go swimming one last time? I was living in Indianapolis, Indiana at the time. And I said, you know, get in that pool. So I didn't even know if anyone was up, but I got in my swimsuit. I go into the pool and Judith is up. She said, Hey, is it okay if I sit here and talk to you? And I was like, yeah, that's awesome.
I very much so, although I've, And I've hired her often as a coach and really follow her work and respect what she does. I definitely view her as a friend, a mentor and a colleague as well. And she's sitting there and talking to me and we're talking through things. I'm kind of talking about life and obviously, you know, she knows all the coaching I've been going through and she just says a line to me. She says, just start the clinic and it was that simple line.
I'm almost gonna get emotional talking about this. That was just what I needed to hear. had been, even since the summer, starting to prepare everything, there's lots of back end that goes into starting your own clinic. And just hearing that, I literally, from that day forward, started to put it out in the world, started to pre enroll patients, started to work on this vision.
And I want to say that sometimes You think when you're working with someone that you're signing up for, oh, I'm, going to be looking at how I'm dressing and how I'm presenting myself and how I think about myself. And what it ends up doing, when you do some of this work that Judith is going to talk about in this interview, when you do this work, you end up showing up differently in life. You end up creating things that you never thought were possible.
You end up having a dream life that you always wanted these things. But you never thought they would be for you. You never thought you'd be strong enough to do it. You never thought you'd be capable enough. You have so much imposter syndrome. Why me? Someone else can do it better. I can go on and on. You don't get the promotion. You don't even ask. You kind of hide away in your relationship.
You don't speak up for the thing you want, even if it's simple things you want that, you know, this other person would love to give you, but you don't even ask for any of these things. So we need to talk about this topic that we're going to dig into here because How you think and feel and dress and the way in which you are being mean to yourself all day long. All of these things need to be worked on. That's the bottom line. Please, without further ado, I'm going to have Judith come on here.
We're going to enjoy this episode, and I want you to take out of today what is the simplest place where you can start to work on this. She's not going to tell you to go do crazy things. It's literally 30 seconds of standing in front of the mirror and becoming acquainted with what you look like at this moment. She is going to share simple techniques to work on these things, really practical ways to start to work on this. This is an incredible episode.
I hope you love it and I really want to ask you if you are loving this episode, please leave a review wherever you are at right now because this is how we help more people to get this help so that they can feel some relief in their life of having acceptance of what you look like, what you're feeling, and all of those kind of things. Alright, let's get to the episode. Thank you so much Judith for coming on today.
Can you start by just telling us a little bit about who you are and how you help people? Yeah. I'm Judith Ketan. I am an image consultant, personal stylist, master certified life coach, former lawyer, podcaster, author. I mean, I could give you the whole rundown. It sounds very chic. But ultimately, I am a curvy, fluffy, plus sized gal who decided one day that I could not take it anymore.
I was in a too small bra and pants that didn't fit, staring at my belly in the mirror thinking, Oh shit, something's got to change. So, If you're any of those things, you're fluffy, amazing, curvy, sitting on the edge of your bed with your pants that are too small and you're listening to this right now, just know that Matea and I have got you. We've totally got you. Yes, I like how you bring that up.
If anyone's new listening to my podcast, maybe you found me at this point or you haven't heard the previous podcast that I've done with Judith. I shared how with our, within our time of coaching, how, when I used to date and things like that in the past, I thought I had to be really uncomfortable. I thought that this was required that somehow, like if the pants are tight enough and the shape wear cinches you, that somehow that makes it, I'm acceptable to myself, how I look.
I can't describe that. Like, what would you say that is where you kind of feel like you have to like keep shape shifting is the name I give it. Well, I mean, we're kind of taught when we're little, right, that we dress up by being uncomfortable.
So think of every little, important holiday event where you were forced into an outfit that was awful, dresses that felt itchy and uncomfortable, you know, little tights that are, squishing your little belly and, you know, for boys, shoes that were too tight and your hair was slicked and you're not allowed to get dirty and you have to be super uncomfortable and sit perfectly straight. And then that's when we're little, we're like, that's how you get dressed up.
So then as grownups were like, Oh, this is how we get dressed up. We were really uncomfortable clothing. We sit perfectly straight. We don't get dirty and we don't act like normal humans. Got it. Completely. And I think that where that starts to fall apart is as we grow up, we're just sick of being uncomfortable. We're sick of being in these positions. But like you said, because we've been socialized in this way, or we believe whatever we do about ourselves, it becomes really hard.
I find for my patients or coaching clients to have confidence and to have a good body image of themselves. Cause it's really, it is a lot about our thoughts. Everyone thinks that they need to reach this certain weight, but I really see that if they don't start doing the work day one, the work that you're talking about, it's a really tough road for them. One of the reasons I brought you on the podcast is a patient said these exact words. It broke my heart.
And I realized, we need to get you in here to have this conversation. She said to me that I, I feel I've fallen so far behind. I don't even know where to start. And first of all, literally saying those words, I feel like I want to cry right now. Like, just, I don't know. It just brings up so much emotion in me that someone, I don't know, like, I'm literally going to cry. So when someone says something like that, where they've had this realization, look, maybe they're working on their health.
Like this is the intersection of who comes to me. They're really working on things. They're showing up for themselves. They're taking walks. They're really starting to look at their nutrition. They're feeling better. In some senses, but in other ways, they just look at themselves in the mirror and they, they just don't even know where to start, how do you even approach that when someone is at that place?
I mean, that, when I heard her, that quote, there's just such a little, like, thread of hopelessness. That's heartbreaking. And if any of you are listening and you're in that position, we just, just let, we want you to know, we love you so much. We totally understand. And part of what, if we just like read back that quote again, is the idea that there's a starting point and a finish line. And those two thoughts are so poisonous.
Because if there's some finish line where there's perfection, where we're in our post pubescent body and there's no cellulite, there is no stretch marks, there are no scars, there are no little divots of flesh and part of being a gangly, creepy little human, like we have post pubescent perfection at the finish line.
You're literally asking yourself to time travel and some of you never experienced a thin body post pubescent, meaning in your twenties and your late teens, you actually never experienced a thin body. So this is like an aberrations, complete fantasy. So we're like, okay, that's what the finish line looks like. It's perfect. And then the starting point gets moved back.
You try something, you walk, you change your eating habits, you're starting with Dr. Matea and you're starting to see these changes and you're like, okay, but there's something really sexy about starting every Monday. And there's a hope and starting every Monday and starting every Monday and the next month, the beginning of next month, the first, the first of the month. So the starting date's always moving and the finish lines is perfectionist fantasy.
And we wonder why we feel so frustrated and so hopeless and so stuck. Because we're never can, we're very rarely consistent in the actions it takes to get healthier, whatever that means for each one of you. And it's going to be something totally different. And we're expecting that the finish line looks like something that's completely out of this world, not real. So part of it is, You started when you started and there's nothing magical about Monday or next month.
And the next time you eat is a perfect opportunity to try something different. The next time you have a coaching call with Dr. Matea is a perfect opportunity to do something different. And that could be on a Tuesday evening. Like that doesn't matter friends.
And then really dismantling this idea that the finish line is something that's perfect, that's something that is time machine, time traveling, like, not like, so out of the norm for your body, for your genes, for your lifestyle, like, if we dismantle what the finish line looks like as something not probably perfect, but better than where you might be right now in terms of how you feel about yourself, then we can start to work towards something that is realistic and feels good and is sustainable
over time in terms of how you see yourself when you look in the mirror. You know something that you said, Judith, when you were saying how maybe where you're trying to get to it's so foreign you've never even been there, and then we're making it a perfectionistic version even of that.
I'm thinking about, when I think about clothes and dressing in a way where I always use the term, like, I didn't want to feel frumpy dumpy, kind of a little bit more professional, like a little bit more of how I saw myself on the inside, having it reflected outside. When you were speaking, I thought it looked like I get the perfect wardrobe and then I don't again need to go shopping. I don't ever again need to worry about this. I don't enjoy it. But I thought, Oh, you just like arrive.
Like, I get Judith's help, it's done, and then I don't ever again need to do it, and then I'm like shocked that however many months later, it's like, oh, this takes maintenance, this takes looking at what actually still feels good or what I still want to wear. Now, my question to you though is, so, okay, people are realizing the finish line doesn't look perfect, but they want to start on this road.
How do they even start to work on this thing that I, I always feel from patients and clients, they think it's such a big thing to kind of step in the body image and how they feel about themselves and how they want to dress. Yeah, I think sometimes we spit out, like we bite off more than we're ready to chew when it comes to body image.
You're like, I'm going to do mirror work and I'm going to stare at myself in the mirror for a half hour a day, butt naked, which cool if you want to, but if you haven't looked at yourself butt naked in a while, that might be not the thing to start with my friends. I love you, but that that's not good advice. So for some of us, it's like, 30 seconds of just paying attention to ourselves.
And for some of you, and I'm just going to put a little disclaimer, if any of you suffer from body dysmorphia disorder, you really should not be doing your work and outside of the help of a therapist. Like, if you have body dysmorphia disorder, you really need to work with a doctor as you do any body image work, because things are going to be coming up for you that, um, folks who don't suffer from that won't be experiencing.
So I'm just going to put that little caveat in for what I'm going to say next. Most of my clients, when they first come to me are not paying attention to themselves at all. Like they're rushing around in the morning, they may be catching glimpses of themselves, make sure like hair isn't sticking up and then they roll like they're in front of the zoom room or they're in. at work, like they're just trying to get through the freaking day.
So part of it is like, you're not paying attention to yourself at all. So the easiest way, and if I give you a practical thing right now that you can do, if you're not paying attention to yourself is to start in 32nd increments. Literally, set a 30 second timer and you're just going to look at yourself in the mirror. This is what I currently look like. It doesn't have to be butt naked. We don't have to be dramatic.
Like it could just be looking at your own face and being like, Oh, this is what my face looks like currently. Now, why is that phrase and why that particular way? Because currently it's always going to be subject to change. You're, you're human. So my currently today, a week from now, I'm like really different. I'm really, if I'm stressed or overtired. My current face is going to look different than it did when I'm well rested. This is what I look like currently.
Now that opens us up to the possibility that perhaps if we wanted to, we could look different at some point in time if we want to, if we like our reasons for doing that. But it also opens us up to some contentment in terms of what currently is. Oftentimes we're trying to jump to body love when it comes to body image as opposed to body acknowledgement. This is what I look like, and then easing our way to maybe some appreciation for things that our body does.
Like, I can move, I can see, I can stand, I can get up out of a chair, I can walk to, you know, my car, I can fold laundry, like. We can get some appreciation, but first we have to do acknowledgement. And then maybe one day we can get to a better understanding of why we got to the place we got. And then maybe we can find a way to like it. And if you want to, maybe love is in the purview. But that's a journey, my friends. And it has to start with acknowledgement.
30 seconds of acknowledgement goes a long way. And it's a teeny tiny little practice you can do every day to start to familiarize yourself with how you look right now, so that as you lose the weight, every step of the way down, we're acknowledging this is my body currently. This is my body currently. So that when we get to 50 pounds down, 100 pounds down, for some of you it's going to be 200 pounds, 300 pounds down. Right? Dr. Matea right? We're, we have significant weight loss to do.
We want you to be so familiar with, this is the body I currently have, so you're not a surprise to yourself. 100 pounds from now, 200 pounds from now, or more. 10 pounds from now, 20 pounds from now, whatever it may be. Oh, so much of what you said is so good. When, whenever you say you're not a surprise to yourself, this is, this is the work, this, what you said, that's just, I like how you made it really doable as well, like this 30 second increment.
What do I look like currently and not being a shock to yourself? And the other thing that you said you blew past this so quickly, but. How we have to do the acknowledgement first, then maybe there's some appreciation and then there are different phases, maybe some understanding and last, last, last, maybe love comes, but maybe that doesn't need to be there. I think there's this big misconception that everything you need to accept and everything is going to be amazing.
And I don't know that everybody needs to get to that place to feel better, right, to not be in so much pain of where they started. And I think that's, that's really nice. Where, where you said that, you know, where people, we just need to start with, with taking a moment, you know, it almost reminds me of mindfulness, right? Where you are just slowing down for 30 seconds. Cause like you said, I know my morning routine. I don't even know if I look at myself in the mirror.
Like how is that possible? Well, a lot of smather, you smather like your SPF on maybe or moisturizer. If you do that. Put on some chapstick. Throw your hair in a bun. You need to see what it looks like. You just roll. And there's a beauty in that. Like, hey, I'm all for simplifying your morning routine, but did you bother to look at yourself today? Cause you are going to follow you around for the rest of your life. Might as well know what that face staring back in the mirror looks like.
Yeah, we love her. Yeah. And I like to and again, this is just because of who I'm who I'm helping all day long. There are the changes actually are so rapid week to week, you know, people are so obsessed with looking at the scale, which is something I try to help them to get away from, but they have no reality of what they're actually looking like. I think that's just quite powerful.
Like you said, if someone's ready for this to just start a few seconds, what do I actually look like in this moment? And then seeing what work comes after that. Let's say that someone is starting to do this work. They're starting to do that. They've, they've come to some type of an acceptance of where they're at, what they look like, and they feel ready, willing, and able. And I to start to work on changing some of the things they're wearing.
Maybe they realize it's a typical story I hear is it's all about comfort, but they actually want to sort of Jewish it up a little bit of their hand with their loved one, or they want to go to a party. They want to celebrate their success, and it's actually who they've always been, but they've never let it out. I think that's always the most interesting thing. When I talk to people, they say I'm actually someone that always wanted to go dancing. I wanted to go do those things.
I didn't feel I had the permission. But they feel like part of it is they also want physically like the clothes that they're wearing to reflect that. How can they start to make that transition? So my favorite clothing transition is to start with your underwear drawer. And here's the reason why I sometimes get flack for talking about undies a lot, which I think is. really humorous. It's such a low cost way to do something really amazing for yourself. It does a few things.
So when we start with working on our undies, foundation garments, there's a reason why they're called foundation garments. If you want the outer layer of clothing to lay, You know, appropriately on your body, we need the undergarments, the foundation garments, to fit you well.
Like, if we laid bricks lopsided on the foundation of a building and then lapped a building on top of it, the building was going to be kind of off, it looked sort of weird, it's probably not very safe, like, Those things, right? That's kind of a funny analogy, but same with foundation garments, right? So, what, male, female, whatever your gender specification is, underwear, friends. Underwear is where it's at. It gives you a way of getting to know what your body's currently looking like.
Or, or it's lumps and it's bumps, right? Shopping for underwear is super intimate, so nobody has to know you're doing it, which I think is part of the fun part. I think sometimes when we're on a weight loss journey, we think we have to make these grand pronouncements to everyone that like, oh, I'm on a diet, or I'm eating on protocol, or I have this plan I'm following, and we make this like really dramatic pronouncements.
Whereas with your underwear drawer, like, ain't nobody need to know you're buying new panties. Like that's between you and you, right? So there's this beautiful thing that this is going to be just a secret between you. We're getting to know what your body looks like, how it's laying, how your belly fat's distributed, all the different things. And it's a way to invest at a low threshold. Some of you are so not used to investing.
in yourself and you want to get a whole new wardrobe, but you're not used to spending money on clothing and clothing prices are different these days, friends, especially if you want something that's going to last you. So great way to get in, in terms of figuring this out with your budget is let's start with some really nice underwear, boxer briefs, whatever it may be, like you do you. But that's a great way to get started.
Get to know your body, get to know what its size and shape is currently, and then we can layer on a piece. Maybe we can find a really great top, and then we mix it in with something you already have. We find trousers because they're falling off of you, and then we mix it in with things you already have, and we build a wardrobe one item at a time. every single step of the way down.
So that way again, it's not a shock to the system when you've lost 50 and absolutely nothing fits you, your budget won't be prepared for that. You mentally won't be prepared for that. And guess what? When we upset status quo so much in our brains, our brains will bring us back to equilibrium. And a lot of regain happens when that happens because we haven't prepared every single step of the way Yeah, it's baby steps, right?
I, I like, I don't know why I've always had this stored away in my mind that working on what you wear or how you look needs to be this massive overhaul moment. I'm sure you hear that all the time, all the time, yeah, clothing items under the house. It's like the back to school phenomenon where I've never really understood this, but there's this like permission when school starts. For parents to go and buy a bunch of clothes for their kid when they really could have been doing it all year.
You know, but it's like back to school is when we spend all the money. I like that. And I know it makes sense what you're saying that if we don't have, the undies that really support us with the fabrics that work and, whatever type of support garments we need that nothing over that is ever going to be flattering. And, and I like what you said, how we don't need to start out spending a bunch and kind of getting used to the fact that.
Yeah. That I'm important, this matters, this is something I'm going to invest in. Because I think that theme of the investment comes into everything. Like sometimes in my clinic, people coming in, they don't know, well, am I going to need all this help and support? And I always tell them like, I don't run something where they have to like, commit to long term things. It's like literally month to month, you can decide what works for you.
But once they get in there, they say, Oh, like I didn't realize that I needed this level of help. Right. But letting the bar be low enough where you feel like you can access that. Okay. So they've finally, they've got the undies, they've got bras, like they have clothes that actually fit them. They're bringing in one item after another. I wonder if you have any tips. For I'm just gonna I want to focus on on plus size. Do you have any tips for going shopping?
So I want to give my history for a second. I always felt it was a very traumatic experience in the past in the sense that you'd go in the room. A lot of things don't fit. And now we're getting a lot better. I think the stores, but there used to be like a little section that was plus size. So do you have any tips for people that are physically going to store or that are purchasing things online to make finding clothes that fit you easier. Cause I think a lot of us have no idea what that means.
Yeah, I mean, and I'm going to say if you're living in a plus size body, chances are the store is not going to carry most of your size. I just want to acknowledge that that's a true fact in the world. And not be all like, Oh, there's so many options. Yes, there's so many options online.
I'm glad that you say that though, because I always felt like it was me like, Oh, well, there's something wrong with me that, you'll see a few things sitting there and you're thinking, Oh, they're always out of my size. And I was always like, what's this about? But now I'm realizing, yeah, they just don't cater, unfortunately, in stores as much. Yeah, and like, some brands I really love, like, I love J. Crew. J. Crew does not carry plus size in Lawton's store. You have to go shop online.
They carry up to a size 24, so they have some really nice size ranges, but good luck finding it in the store. So I just want to acknowledge that reality. So if any of you've been really frustrated and then somebody is like, well, just go shopping. It's just clothes. And you want to punch them in the throat. I feel you and fuck those people because it is really hard and it is super frustrating. And then add to that snarky salespeople add to that.
I mean the horror stories of clients y'all that I could share with you that just break my heart. It's just. It's horrifying sometimes. And that's not to say all sales people are bad. I know tons of retail people who are fabulous, who want to help, who wish they carried more sizes in stores so they could be a better service to their clients. So it, it makes sense. And then add to that, like you have to walk across the store to like the shame corner that's poorly lit.
And that's where they have the plus size clothing. And it's like, Oh, this is going to be a great experience. I say all that to say I recognize where you're coming from. Part of the problem is a lot of people don't go shopping with a list in mind. They go to browse and then browsing always is going to lead to disappointment because we didn't have somewhere to direct your brain where your brain was in control of the outcome. So here's what this looks like.
If I decide, because like I've been putting one item at a time and I recognize my next item is definitely going to be jeans. Like my jeans do not fit. They are probably horrible to begin with. I know I live in jeans and I want to wear the fuck out of my next pair. So it's important to me I find jeans. I'm going to have a very different shopping experience because I'm going to be much more discerning. Any jeans that come into my world have to perform. I like to call it like auditioning.
The clothing has to audition for you. So I'm going to be such a diva when I go find my jeans. I'm like no. Thank you. Next. Oh, you didn't pass the cut. Oh, you're a terrible, like I have such empowerment when I have that mindset. And then if I walk out of the store with nothing, shame on the store for not having what I needed. Uh, rude. It's on them. I haven't done anything wrong. I haven't failed. I'm not, you know, blaming myself for not being thin enough.
Like none of that enters my mind because I'm in diva mode where all the clothing's auditioning for me. Same when I shop online, the clothing comes in, I try it on, if it doesn't fit, I have a routine, it gets repackaged and right back out the door, it didn't pass the audition, but I know I'm only looking for jeans. Versus when you go browsing, you're only going to set yourself up for disappointment because then you have to settle for Whatever happens to be available. I don't really like it.
I hate this print. There's a reason why it's on the sales rack. But it's the only one of my size. Okay, it happens to fit me. I really didn't want to go shopping today. I have to come home with something brand new. And we do that little weird dance, and then we settle for something we didn't really like because we didn't go in empowered with a list, with a mission of what we were going to get. And we didn't audition the clothes, we started auditioning for the clothes.
We're like, oh, I don't really make the cut, but I guess this will do. It's just a very different mindset. So stop the browsing, number one. Go in armed with a list and start to practice this thought, all the clothing is auditioning for me. And a lot of clothing is not going to make the cut, but then that puts you in the power role as opposed to at the mercy of whatever the retailer happens to have on hand.
Okay, I feel so exposed because everything you said I've done, I go into the store and I'm just thinking, the right things will find me and I'm realizing that's not the best approach because 100% happens which is oh it fits but it's not really what I want so amazing we actually need to do a list we are auditioning things so it does not it's not like a morality thing when we don't find things right size And, and I have to say, you really helped me with the sort of buy and return process because
nowadays I almost plan on, if I don't even know exactly what size it's gonna be, I, I'll maybe order two or three. Like I am that person nowadays because I simply have the mindset, I don't wanna have to do this again. And I think I'm actually really gonna like that item and then, you know, when you return it, they don't have it in stock anymore. So I've just, I've changed my patterns to make life easier for me. I didn't know that that could be an easy process.
I think that to people here in a lot of places nowadays, I have found that their return policies are so easy. They already have it done. And those that don't, I think I stopped buying from them just because it became so inconvenient how to do it. Yeah. And that's important too. When you're shopping online, look at the return policies.
A lot of places, especially during COVID, were much more generous of their return policies, had a lot of free returns, free shipping, and now they're tightening a little bit. So you just want to make sure you read that policy, know what it is. Oftentimes if there is a restocking fee, it's like 7. But if you're buying like 1, 000 worth of clothing, you want to try a lot of different things on. Then we know like half of it's going to get sent back. Seven dollars might be worth the risk.
You didn't have to get in your car, haul your ass to a store, hope that they can send something to the store so that you don't have to have the return. Like it becomes a whole rigmarole and it might be worth a seven dollars for you. It's like a seven dollar convenience fee. Just something to factor in when you're buying clothes. And if I said a thousand dollars and some of you bulked right now. 500, 200, whatever it may be. Again, the 7 convenience fee might be like totally worth it to you.
One of the things I see, you know, I like that we've kind of talked about how to even get in touch with what you look like and where your body image is at and then how to even start to approach this And then I find that there are people that they have done some of this work. They're doing some of it. But then if something is not really intuitive to us, and for me, it's this like fashion area. I just, I don't like shopping. It's not something I feel like I stay on top of.
Do you have any tips for those people as far as when habits are not somehow sustaining themselves with us? Like we don't continue to check in on the mirror. We're not continuing to update the wardrobe. And we know that we like the outcome. Like I love when I do this stuff. But do you have any tips for as far as sustainability to keep in touch with ourselves and to keep this part mattering? Yeah, I actually have a moment that I'm going to share about Matea, like totally going to put her on.
No, at my retreat last year. She was gonna get her picture taken and she, I think you didn't want us to curl your hair. There was like, you wanted to do your own hair for a second and then you change your mind. And she's got gorgeous hair, by the way. It's like beautiful color. So they put these like loose curls in her hair and she's in the kitchen and she's doing like pictures. You remember the pictures from the kitchen? Yeah, yeah. This gorgeous hair, she's a mixing box.
She's like this huge smile on her face and this cute little top that has like little ruffles on the edges of the sleeve. And I was like, Oh my God, look at her. She's so fucking cute right now. Like she just looks beautiful and in her element and so happy.
And like, I just got to see like the little transformation that like a little curl in your hair and like you being in your happy place and you like turn it on for the camera, girl, I've seen you like ham it up, which is so fun to watch as your coach, like from afar. And I was like, look at her go. Oh my God. I'm. I'm so in love with this right now. I had one crazy headache that morning, but I was like watching you all from afar and I was like, Oh my God, look at them.
Like look how cute they are. Just fucking love them. And I just want to say sometimes y'all, we forget the magic of those little moments and just like a little tweak. Right? Would we give her a full glamour makeup and she was in a chair for three hours and then she didn't look like herself or recognize herself in the mirror? No, we threw some curl in her hair. Like, let's be real.
I remember that because I really, something that, and again, those of you that are listening know this, but I'm really about being genuine online. I'm not overly produced in videos. I don't have a bunch of makeup on. It's very just, you're with me in my home type of energy. And I didn't want to have this artificial photo shoot. Like I wanted to be in the kitchen doing, cutting some cucumbers, doing normal things that I would do.
And I was worried that if we did all that, that it wouldn't translate and you would help to show me, no, this is one little step in that direction. And then it helped me to feel better. But I like that. Of course I forget that all the time, what that feels like. Yeah, we forget like how good it is to moisturize our skin. I had a, this is so fun. This last round of my program style masterclass that we did, everyone has a minimum baseline.
So one teeny tiny thing that they're going to work on and they're getting ready routine. And this crowd was like into lotion, like body butters. And I was like, I don't know what y'all are doing on the side, but I love you. This is so fascinating. And it was like, became like the, the moisturizing crew and that was their minimum baseline until they got it down as a habit. And it took several weeks.
Like I think we were three weeks into the program before everybody was like, I'm lotion up, my skin is glowing. I'm drinking my water. And that tiny little thing, like, just like we think there's like these makeover overhauls that we are caught on TV and they're insane, like, that's not real life. Most of us just need to like put on some SPF and some ChapStick and we'd feel better.
So my friends, if you're one who like has these grand pronouncement cycles where you're like, makeover, and you start spending half hour getting ready every day and it feels really good. But then overwhelm in real life sets in, and then it sort of peters away. And you find yourself, like, three months from now, like, not getting ready at all, just sort of dashing out the door, putting on clothes, you're not naked, so you roll. And then you're like, oh my god, I've done it again.
Now I have to do a whole makeover again. Oh no, I'm a failure. And I just want to let you know, like, oh no, you're a normal human. All of us have habits that peter out over time. Because we forget like the initial deliciousness of doing something nice for ourselves. So we're always chasing like the big version of it and then it peters out. And then the big version of it and it peters out. And what I want to offer you all is maybe we don't do the big giant ass version. We do the teeny tiny one.
So our body knows, this doesn't actually take a lot of time. It does actually feel really good. And I'll just build some consistency around this teeny tiny thing, and when I'm ready for more, I can always layer things on. I have a client right now who started with ChapStick. She wants to wear bright, bold colors. And I'm like, let's do it. But what do you wear currently? Nothing. Well, let's start with some chapstick.
Cause you going to a bold red lip without having worn anything like that's going to be a little shock to the system. Right? So she started with chapstick and then she started with tinted chapstick. And then she started with lip gloss. And then I think it was like two, like a week ago, I saw her with like this bold fuchsia lip color. She's like, I'm experimenting. I haven't left the house. I love that so much. Like no one has to see you.
But she's trying this for herself just to see if she likes it. Now, she might decide she doesn't like that saturated of a color. She's going to go back to gloss. Totally fine. But she's created this habit with herself of putting something on her lips every day. And now this habit is cemented. So whatever the thing is that she puts on our lips, she totally gets agency to decide. But that habit, that act of just doing that little thing every day hasn't gone away. There was no huge makeup overhaul.
She didn't buy thousands of dollars worth of makeup never to wear it. Start with some chapstick. You all have the same ability, my friends, to start really, really small. I have clients who do nail polish. I have clients who just do mascara. I have clients who just wear SPF because they're like, fuck makeup. Like, you totally get to decide what that looks like for each of you. Oh, it's so good to hear you say this. You know what's so funny?
I always, it's the same intersection with any habit and anything we do, right? Like, I'm thinking... Sometimes if people want to bring more fruits and veggies into what they're doing again, the answer is not do it with every meal. If you never did, there can be gash, gaseous and bloating. It's not going to be good, but it's like small things always get you there. And you're just like, you remind me of that.
And we're human when we, I always use the term backslide, but I, I, I, I hate that term because I feel like it's not, that's not true. That's not what it really is. It's us, like you said, being human and just needing to kind of re remember and take those smaller steps. I have to say, I'm so glad that, that Judith is going to be coming later this month into my clinic to teach more on confidence and body image, more of a workshop style.
And, you know, hearing you talk today, I just realized how People actually need to apply the stuff in their life, right? So I'm wondering, for people that are listening, I've learned so much today and I already follow everything you do. How can people that are not my patients, how can they find out about you, what you're doing, how to be part of your world? Yeah. So chances are, if you're listening to this podcast, you like to listen to podcasts.
So I would recommend the first way to find me is to look up the podcast style masterclass. And my podcast is really short. So it's like 12 minute episodes. And I give you a mission to carry out at the end of the episode. So if you want to get started on this work and you're like, I don't know anything about the style stuff. This is my first foray. I'm kind of curious. And you want to keep the secret between you and me that you're working on this. Totally fine.
Go to listen to style masterclass podcast. Super actionable. Now, if you're like, Hey, I would like to actually dive in. I'm all, I'm all ready to do the style stuff and uplevel my style, get this wardrobe thing figured out. Then you would find my. program, which is also called Style Masterclass, by going to judithkatan. com.
And the cool thing about that program is it's eight weeks, which means we work fast to teach you all the style stuff that you probably didn't learn when you were little, and that's okay, and then send you on your way. But ultimately, I give you all the tools you need so that whatever you're doing all the way the pounds down, so whether you've lost 20 pounds and then 40 pounds, those tools will serve you every step of the way. Oh, so, so good. And I need to share Judith.
I did Judith's course two times, the style masterclass. And then in addition to other stuff you have, I just, obviously I think you're brilliant. And it truly took me from just clothes that were ratty tatty, just not matching who I felt inside. And by the end of it, I have to tell you, I think like so many of my friends afterwards signed up with you. Cause they were like, what did you do? Yes. What did you do to Matea? Matea crew came afterward. I was like, oh, oh, hi ladies. Hello.
So I cannot recommend enough. If any of you are out there and you're looking, I mean, I really consider Judith that it's more than style and images. I really think you help people find their identity again. And it's. It's who they actually feel like, but they're never actually able to express it or come to acceptance with it, whatever term you want to use. But I really think your work is brilliant and anyone that gets to work with you, I think is super lucky. Thank you. Thank you for that.
Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. We'll have the links to all of that down below and thank you everybody for listening. Thank you. And those of you who are going to be in the workshop live, I can't wait to hang out with you there and answer all of your questions.
If you have not joined Dr. Matea's clinic yet, you definitely want to do that so that we can answer your unique questions, because I'm sure they came up for you while you were listening in that live workshop that's going to be going down. So this is your chance to get in on that goodness and then catch us both live in the room together, running shenanigans, giggling and laughing, but also answering your questions.
Because everything we're going to do in there, I came to you only when I had heard from multiple patients what the actual struggles were. And so everything that I'm creating in the clinic, it's not just sort of me deciding on, every month we do one workshop in there. It's coming out of what is actually a struggle. What do we actually need to address so that people can really get to the next level with things? So thank you so much. This is going to be so great.
And I'm excited that we get to work more together. Bye, everyone.