Changing Your Relationship with Alcohol with Angela Mascenik

Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. Today I have the Overdrinking coach, Angela Miss Sinek. And I have actually, Angela, I have followed you for years. I wanna say when your podcast stop Over Drinking, start Living, when it was like in the single digits I started to listen to. Mm-hmm. And I just looked recently you are on episode 2 25. I have just like blew my mind so. You know, timewise, it does fly.

And we've actually even had the privilege of meeting in person at a Corin Crabtree event. And so it's just been absolutely so great to be able to hear all your stuff. And I don't know if I've ever shared this with you, but I, for years now, whenever I have a patient where I. I know that they don't have alcoholism, but they just wanna change a little bit their relationship with alcohol.

You are the person where I pull out a pad and I say, listen to this podcast, and the look up people's face when they know that there's some help and that they're not being diagnosed with something, or that this is a massive thing, that there's a different way. They just have this look of relief. I know that probably a bunch of people that are listening are going to have found you years ago through this and kind of through the years, so, Anyway, I just wanna welcome you.

Thank you for coming on the podcast, and can you just let our listeners know a little bit about who you are and how did you get into doing this kind of work? Yeah. Well thank you so much for having me. It's always a joy. So how did I get into this work? So I was somebody who over drink for two decades plus and overate, and struggled with my weight too, like simultaneously. Alcohol probably felt more painful just because I would have bad hangovers and things.

But I had tried all the things, throughout my life and, you know, I, my parents put me on a diet when I was like eight years old. So I was full on, like either on a diet or off a diet pretty much my whole life, except when I was pregnant. But

after I had, I have three kids and after I had those kids, you know, they were very close in age and there was a lot of anxiety. I had postpartum depression. I would, I noticed then that like there was a shift to, from alcohol to before it was like partying and stuff and I definitely used it to relax and deal with stress, but, After the kids, it just amplified that area of it, like the stress and the anxiety and the overwhelm.

And I definitely noticed a shift when I was like using it to take the edge off. And, especially around after my third child was born, I had postpartum depression and. You know, like you fill out that little survey when you go to your six week checkup and I hit all the marks. They're like, you, you need to, you have this and you need to come in and see somebody. And as I have all these kids in tow, I'm like, how? Oh, right, right, right. I was like, how, how? Like, how am I gonna do that? Right.

It was so bad that I couldn't figure out how I was gonna do that. Like me just packing up the three kids and putting them in the car was too much. I didn't do it for like 11 weeks after the last one was born. Thankfully that went down on its own. But I did use alcohol a lot during that time and, and so it, it sort of amplified the issue because I was using it as an emotional tool. And so, the kids got a little bit older.

I went back to work full-time and it just kept getting more and more and more. So I actually found life coaching, probably similarly to you, and I learned about my feelings, about anxiety, about overwhelm and how I could manage that by looking at what I was thinking and not.

Dramatizing everything in my brain and, changing the way I thought about, you know, who's taking the garbage out and who's doing what, and taking ownership of my own shit and learned how to feel my feelings and all the things that you teach, right? Yeah. And I, you know, looked, I evaluated my relationship with alcohol and food and. Did a big long break from alcohol and realized how much better my life was, and then here I am.

I decided to become a coach who helps people, helps women specifically address their underlying issues with alcohol. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that with us. I always feel that the best people, and this is probably why I resonate so much with sending so many people to you because. When someone has gone through it themselves, you just get it on a whole new level. You're able to, yeah. Right. Like you got it, you can spot it. Is that a saying, right?

Yes. Yes. I mean, I've, I totally understand it, right? What's interesting is I feel that everyone's always trying to do the best they can. Right? And I know you've said before in a previous interview when I've had with you where, our brain is normal. It wants those dopamine hits. I mean, it's just, it's really actually functioning how it should. We're just in a different society nowadays where there's different things out there.

I find this a lot with, with the patients that I work with, with food, you know, same thing. They're, they're using it in a similar manner. And also I, I see alcohol show up a lot. If people have had bariatric surgery afterwards, there can sometimes be something called transfer addiction where they, now that they don't have food as a coping skill, they don't know how to feel their emotions or process do anything. And so now it's like, well, I need something else.

I can't physically go to those same things. And so this is actually really not spoken about a lot, but people need tools for kind of how to reevaluate. Their, relationship with alcohol. I wanna be super clear when we're talking here, cause I know you always say this all the time, we are not talking about alcoholism, right? If someone is diagnosed with alcoholism or has those challenges, please make sure to talk to your medical team. Tell me who are the people that seek you out.

Like, who is the best person that should be listening to you and can kind of, get help from you. Yeah, so definitely somebody who's functioning, who can go to work, take care of their shit, you know, manage their family life. You know, like they're not needing alcohol to function throughout the day. They can feel comfortable taking a few days off without worrying about, serious withdrawals cuz, heavy drinkers and you all of a sudden quit. There is a risk of.

Serious side effects and health conditions. So you wouldn't, the people here wouldn't worry about that, right? Like, they would be like, oh, I can take a few days off. It's no problem. But they find that they just can't move the needle, like they feel really stuck with it. They say they are gonna make some changes or not drink in the week and they just keep coming back to this, those same old patterns.

And it feels challenging or they feel, they might feel scared that if they change their relationship with alcohol or, or share that they need some support with it, that they're gonna be labeled or judged or they're not gonna have fun anymore. So those are the people and usually people who have been struggling with it for a while, you know, like, you know, 5, 10, 15, 20 years. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It's like, it's, I always, I use, I use this term like it's declared itself.

It's not news, right? It's not like it just popped out last week. Right. Where do you start with those clients? So they know this, okay, I struggle with this. They feel like they, they're finally ready to want, cuz you have to want to do something different, it doesn't, it's not helpful for someone else. Like if people come into me, And they're not bringing it up.

I can sometimes on history kind of get it out, but if they're not wanting to do something, it's very challenging for me to be like, let's work on processing your emotions and doing things like that. When they're at that place, where do you start with them? Well, I think awareness is the biggest thing.

And I just wanna say before we get into sort of like tactical stuff, I just wanna say to your audience who's listening to you that it's so important to tell the truth to your doctor, especially to somebody like you because you are definitely not judging them. And. I know that that's a big fear in medical and with a lot of different stuff, not just alcohol, but like, we wanna be honest about this with somebody that you trust.

And I think you are a really good person for that because obviously you've done this backend work of

it and. But I'm so glad that you bring that up because I think that, and this is, I think with other physicians as well, we, we don't care at all how you're living your life, what you're doing. We just want to help you, whatever that means. And if you're not giving us Yeah, all the truth, we, it's like literally medications might be prescribed wrong. It has real implications, but it really does. Yeah. No one's gotta sit there and, it's like we really just wanna help.

I love that you bring that up cuz I, I forget to say that that was such a good point. Yeah, and I know that a lot of my clients have shared it with their physicians or other medical providers and have been met with judgment.

And you know, if that happens to you, I just wanna say, you should go talk to somebody else, get a, get another doctor, get another medical professional most of you, most of them aren't trained on the underlying conditions and stuff like that, so they're gonna go to their straight, you gotta quit. You just gotta cut back. Yeah. And like that's their only advice, right? Yes. So anyway. Little tangent on that, but Well, that was so good. So, okay, so they, I gonna say they're telling the truth.

You were talking about kind of gaining some awareness. How do they start to kind of get awareness? Yeah, so, so being aware is, I think is being very honest with yourself. About what you're doing with alcohol, like, really looking at how much you're drinking every week. How, why are you drinking? Start being aware and conscious of how you're using alcohol. You know, are you using it? These are just great questions asked. Are you using it after a long day to help you relax?

Are you re, are you using it to have more fun in your social engagements? Are you losing, are you using it to detach? From yourself and just to quiet your mind and just feel that imbibe feeling of just like not having to think about anything. Those are just some really good questions to start with so you can see your patterns more clearly. We can't really change things unless we see our patterns. Let's to start. So that's the first part is awareness. I love that you bring this up.

Yeah. You know, a long, relaxing, detaching quiet mind. Yeah. It's so interesting. I think everyone always wants to skip that first step, cuz I find this with everything, right? People just wanna go like, what do you, what do you want me to do? Let's take, let's go take action. It's like, we don't even know what's there. We can take zero action. So, so sort of this mm-hmm. Step. Mm-hmm. Do you see people needing to stay in this a while?

Like kind of really like get curious for a while before they're able to, to do other things. I would say, you know, give it a couple weeks and just kind of observe yourself. Keep a journal, and kind of write down, like if you, or a notebook or a piece of paper on the fridge, whatever is easy for you. So like, it's so automatic. Sometimes we just wanna be like, okay, my goals this week is just to observe myself wanting alcohol and trying to get some understanding of it. Right.

So like maybe a notebook, notepad, notes, app on your phone, something that's easier for you to kind of just jot down some notes? Yeah. Without judgment either. We're just kind of. Being aware right now, it's funny that you bring this up because again, I, for me, the bigger challenge has always been food. And that's what I did for months before ever changing anything. Before doing anything, I was just like, okay, I'm in bed. I have a bag of Doritos. I'm not hungry. I like the taste. I'm tired.

And I really got to know, okay, that's a trigger for me when you're tired nights are a trigger. You wanting, thinking that things need to always taste good. I got so much information outta those first three months before ever changing anything. And I think people think that standing spill with this period that you're talking about, but I don't know I would've ever made any progress or ever be in a different spot if I hadn't gone through that period.

I just wanna highlight how massive this is what you're saying. And I, and I also think that people want quick fixes, right? Like that's also natural condition of us. We want what we want now, right? Like, I wanna change this right now. I wanna lose 20 pounds in two weeks. And like, you just have to remember that doesn't work, if you can look into your past and notice all the times you've tried to make your changes.

The, the quick fixes don't work, so just pump the brakes, be patient, get some awareness going, give yourself two weeks to look at it. Doesn't need to be a long time. You know, you're in one week. You're gonna get a lot of awareness if you look at what you're doing every day, you know? Yeah. When that light comes out, there's a lot there. I like, I like when you said pump the brakes. We need like a bumper s sticker for that for everyone.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, pump the brakes, be patient and don't judge yourself. This is ingrained patterns that you have and there's like, like you were saying earlier, there's nothing wrong with you. Our brain is programmed to seek pleasure and avoid pain and save energy, so it's gonna wanna do it. Same old patterns. If you do forget one time, it's okay. But awareness is a first step and I think a lot of times people just. Have told themselves a story that it's gonna be hard to change.

Yeah. And I think this awareness up is really key cuz, once you become conscious of what you're doing, you could just be like, oh, I don't really need to do that right now. What if I didn't? What if I just tried not to drink this one time? You know? And they, they realize it's actually doesn't have to be that hard to make changes. That's, that's really nice. This the story of it doesn't, yeah. It doesn't have to be that hard. Mm-hmm. Yeah, cuz I was gonna ask mm-hmm.

I think a lot of the time what, what I get is, is there's this social aspect to it. So, like, we're heading in a summer here. Right. And we'll have this coming out hopefully by then. Mm-hmm. And a lot of what I hear is, well, we're gonna go to the lake and everybody's drinking when we do that. And it's almost like I. Not that it's a free pass, but it's almost like, it's just assumed that because it's gone that way in the past, it can never go a different way now. Right.

So how do people start to, I know you just said, okay, you could try once, you know, can I adjust at this time? I, love that. Are there any other ways that you help people to kind of break, these patterns where it's like it doesn't need to always happen in the same way? Yeah. First of all, it's like imagining it in a positive way without alcohol. So visualizations are great.

Instead of picturing the old scene where you're drinking with all your friends and like playing that out in your mind over and over and over again, we wanna practice like visualizing a different scene. Like a different movie playing out in your mind. So a good exercise for that is just like writing it out. Like what if it was a movie and you wanted to have a different outcome and drink less? Like what would it look like?

And like get detailed about it in your journal or in your mind and practice thinking that way

and, and seeing that happen. And then the next thing is, be intentional. So I make, I make my clients write out drink plans. So they're deciding ahead of time how much they're gonna drink and what kind of drink they're gonna have outside of a 24 hour period. Because when we're in sort of the same day decision making, We don't make the best decisions for ourselves cuz we're kind of in response to that pleasure cycle, that quick hit type thing that our brain is doing.

So I recommend that they make a, at least an advanced drink plan of at least 24 hours. And then if you're in my program, I have a weekly drink plan that I make them think about it. You know, we get ahead of time and so they're really being intentional and they're thinking through their social events and they're giving that some space and time to consider.

Yeah. It's so interesting when you like the different part of our brain that's activated with more than 24 hours ahead of time versus that urge driven right in the moment. Mm-hmm. Totally different You, different part of the brain, different motivation. All of it is so different. Yeah. And I like, so, and I'm assuming like when they do like a week plan or things like that, that they're thinking through, there's different days they're gonna have different expectations of yourself. Right?

So it's not maybe needing you this rigid thing of how you do it. Yes, yes, definitely. You gotta let go of the rigidity. We, you know, I'm sure you talk about diet mentality, right? It's the same thing here. We don't wanna just like going back to like the quick fix. Like I want, I need to stop this.

And a lot of times I. When we start to work on a relationship with alcohol or food, it's because we feel so frustrated with ourselves and we feel sick or like we're making those decisions out of kind of like a desperation, which is fine. Sometimes that's good to decide that you need to make some changes, but often that comes with extreme type thinking. You know, like we gotta be really, we gotta do this right

now and be really strict and all that. And as we know, that doesn't usually work out too much. So be again, pump the brakes, go slow. Meet yourself where you are. It's really important to hear. I really like that you highlight that. You're right. I always say it's this kind of like flogging yourself a submission and you can maybe start there, but it will not motivate you long-term. People always think if I'm not hard on myself, I will not get to the finish line. That's the opposite of truth.

Absolutely. Most of the time it's really a love and compassion that will long-term feel it. Yes. But how do you Yes. Switch that, that lever. Right. Like and that's I think a real, that's where the real growth happens. And that's not easy. That's not like overnight where you go for, as your coaching can really help you. Yeah. Having a coach help you see this stuff, see your pattern, see how you're thinking about your approach to your goals is so, so important. Totally.

Yeah. I mean, you, and again, I, I come back just cuz I re-listened to it cause it was such a good one and I'm gonna link it in the show notes. Everybody. When we talked to Angela, this was, a year or two ago, I forget how long ago. You mentioned how, in your group program, people will share ideas. Okay, I'm gonna go to this event, but I don't wanna drink. And, and you had said, okay, well what if you leave, after an hour in, or what if you do this? What if you do that?

And they were all things where before you said

it, I had not thought of it and it just made me realize. We, we do. If you're sitting there thinking the same things all the time, you need other ideas. Sometimes that's gonna open up. Yeah. The possibility to you, and you might not know it exists. You might know you wanna change, but not know how you're gonna access that change. And so that's why I think programs like yours and what I'm doing, it's like people need that, those things opened up to them. Otherwise they don't even know.

I mean, that's how I learned stuff. I didn't create it on my own, you know? Right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And it just, it's a safe place to explore without judgment. You know, of course you've gotta resonate with your coach and find somebody who you know you want to work with, but it is super, super helpful and, you know, yeah, you can't see your own shit sometimes.

And so having somebody to bounce that off of and verbalize and explain it to, they can help redirect you and, and open your mind to think of. About things differently. Yeah, totally. I say we could never see our own brain. I say it's a blind spot. You need two brains to see it. So I know. What do you offer, what do you offer to people that, that with drinking, then they sabotage their eating effort.

So let's say they're really trying to, you know, maybe they're only planning a drink or two, and maybe that actually does feel good for them and that's okay, but then they notice that kind of food is changing. Where do you offer that? They kind of troubleshoot that. Well, it's really the same process, you know? So like, you gotta understand why you're wanting to snack more. I find the same thing with people who are, um, cutting back on drinking.

Sometimes it gets switched to food because they're just, they're not dealing with the underlying shit, right? They're just like, okay, well I'm not gonna drink. It's okay if I go raid the pantry. Right? And it's absolutely okay. But we want, if you wanna actually make permanent changes and you wanna solve this stuff, we have to be willing to kind of sit there and see what feelings and what's going on in your mind and what

other needs you might, are, are not meeting, right? So like a lot of times it is just tired, exhaustion, stress, you know, that kind of thing. And it's like, okay, well what else could be better? Like, what else could we do? And we wanna introduce some other tools besides of sort of the buffering with. Food, which is again, it's just a quick and easy hit, but it's not helpful, obviously. Yeah, definitely.

Isn't this this so interesting how when one thing goes down, another will emerge If you're not addressing it? I mean, I will see it even, without alcohol, but let's say the diet drinks, right. Which again, I'm not here to villainize it. I, you know, it's just I will, some of my patients will. Come to me drinking over 10 diet drinks per day. And it's, it again, it doesn't work, is it? What do you mean? Like diet Coke, like diet Dr. Pepper, things like that.

And so it's like, oh, is that necessarily helping them? And a lot of the times it's cuz like they still want to get that sugary taste. They still wanna feel good from it. So they're still looking to food. Mm-hmm. To kind of provide some emotional blanket for them. And so with time we kind of see, are you ready to let some of that go? But it has to be with other supports in place. Otherwise, I think there's no point in changing anything really. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You have to, you have to address the full body, really like your mind, nutrition, all of that stuff, right? Mm-hmm. And if you just, it's just like alcohol. Like say someone you know, you're gonna take away your Diet Coke or your diet Dr. Pepper, you're like, ah, you're left with your shit. Yeah. Right? And so you wanna make sure you have support and you are thinking ahead of that. So like, how do you feel at the end of the day? Right. Are you tired? Do you need to put your feet up?

Do you need to go wash your face and like give yourself some attention? Close your eyes for 15 minutes. Like sometimes those little things are, is all that you need. But if you just jump to want to, like eating or to alcohol, you know, depending on what you're working on, you miss an opportunity to learn about what you actually need in that moment. So it's probably not food and alcohol. You know, unless you haven't eaten all day, which is another thing, but Right. Totally.

And I think it takes time to actually be nice to yourself and see what you need. Mm-hmm. And I think also people think that it's these really grand gestures that have to happen, right? Like, I, I'm gonna need two hours at night, but reality check, you've got kids and you don't have those two hours and you've worked and you have to make dinner.

And it's like, Okay, so what can we do in a 10 minute period or once the kids are down, or you know, it's like really working within reality, but still needing some of your needs. I really definitely think it's possible. It just takes time to think. I, I saw someone online the other day and she said, I. Y'all, give me ideas. I

wanna work on self-care, but I can't think of things. And one thing I put there, I said, don't respond to emails immediately. I said, it sounds small, but task it, batch it up. You only go in twice a day or whatever it was. And she said, oh my God, this is amazing. She know. So like, I was like, this is something that I do for self-care. It's to not be constantly bombarded by, messages and social and things like that. Yes. And that was work. It was work. Right.

Yeah. I mean, I have to do that with text messages right now, if text messages, I had to tell my husband, I was like, listen, if it's a text and it's like a once, once back and forth, it's fine. But if it requires more than a one time response, I cannot do it. I'm sorry. Like it's too much like having. All these things coming, we're not meant for that. It's not healthy for us. Right. To be activated constantly and and triggered really of like needing something. Especially as women, right?

Like yeah, we're constantly being asked for things and we have to have boundaries in place for that, and it's up to us to do it. Unfortunately, nobody's gonna be like, Hey, I'm gonna stop texting you all day, or I'm gonna not email you after five and. You know, I won't respond to this thing. That's not ever gonna happen, unfortunately. I like how you say we, we have to make the boundaries. Right. And sometimes it's not so comfortable.

People around us don't enjoy if we're changing and, and kind of making sure we're taking care of us, but they get used to it. Yeah. Really quickly. Usually I see is when you just kind of, and it's usually from a place of love, right? You're not requiring them to change at all, but you're just kind of making it known. And in fact, the more you can say it, usually the better because then it's super clear to them. They're not offended if you're not answering, but.

Yeah. I find this context switching all day long, at least for me, is very challenging. I need to have things blocked. I can't be in social and then hop over here and hop over there. It just really doesn't work for me. Right? And so I had like to speak up with that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think self-care is learning. Learning how to pay attention to yourself is so important. You can't just follow a diet plan. You can't just say, I'm not gonna drink, or I'm gonna try to cut back.

You have to actually take good care of yourself. That means taking breaks, drinking water, moving your body, getting good sleep. It's a total body situation and I don't. Mean to say that it needs to be super overwhelming or like, I gotta change all this shit and add boundaries. Like just little things. Little things. It happens. It happened over time. Right? Like I like saying this total body, I like what you're saying. Everything said breaks, water, sleep. So it's, mm-hmm.

I have found over the years, I've slowly built out a lot of these things. Like now I do more, telework and it is not human to sit in a chair for multiple hours. And so I've had to break up my day and intentionally. Be like, because I would literally, after my son, I literally have back pain if I don't move and do things. So I've had to literally be like, we're gonna do this for 20 minutes, then we're gonna do the walk in the middle of the day.

Then we're gonna, I mean, I had to, and it feels like you're quote unquote not productive during those times. But I had to rewire my brain and say, This is part of you being able to do this though, to be able to really help people and be clear when you're with them is if you make sure that you are, you know, eating meals that you've prepped, that you're walking, that you're doing these things. And I think that that happens over time.

So I don't want people to hear and they're thinking, oh my gosh, I have to change everything. 1% upgrades. Right. I don't know, I don't know if you're obsessed with James Clear Atomic Habits, but I talk about it all the time. Yes. It's like 1% people. What today is 1%. That's where we start. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, my, my, what I do now does not look like what I did when I first started my work to stop over drinking.

And what I did when I first started was really just to journal self coach myself, learn how to feel my feelings and manage my mind. That's all I did, you know? And then like it's evolved over time to now I know

how to set boundaries. It's not gonna happen overnight. And just give yourself more time and patience to figure it out, like what feels doable today. And do it. Yeah. You know? And then tomorrow, it's another day and do that. Yeah. Yeah. I like that you bring that up. So it's almost like a layered approach.

You know, there can be some, some simple basics for starting, and then with time it'll get more and more complex, quote unquote, in the sense that you will be able to interact with other people with. Still maintaining your boundaries, things like that. I, those are all life skills. I think that can develop with time and we might not even know that there're boundaries that we're missing. We, we find this out by doing this work, I think. Yeah. Yes, absolutely.

Well, this has been an amazing conversation. I know I have learned so much. How can people find out more about you, your podcast? Just absolutely everything. Hmm. Well, thank you. I have a, an amazing podcast. It's called Stop Over Drinking and Start Living. It's on my website, angela masonic.com. It's on all the iTunes and the Spotifys and all the places. And then if you wanna check out my Stop Over Drinking membership, it's angela maek.com/live af and I love that name because it's like a live.

Live alcohol free or live A as f whatever you wanna have it in your mind, but it really is like it digs in more into. You know, feeling more alive. So you don't need to number escape with things. And that's what we have to do if we wanna make changes, we have to make it fun. We have to make it interesting for ourselves and to keep ourselves motivated and engaged with it. So it's like we're adding more pleasure, we're paying attention to ourselves. We're noticing things that make us feel good.

That's the fun work that, and it doesn't have to be this big old project, and this is gonna take years of my life and daunting tasks. And also I have a subscription box. It's a quarterly subscription box, which kind of helps you have tactical things that you can touch and. Drink and remind yourself that you're working on this. So in the Box there's an awesome book that I've read and recommended a journal, really fun, bougie, non-alcoholic drinks, self-care products, and it's super, super fun.

It's also called a live af, and I'm sure you'll link that up too, but that's a really awesome sort of a self-care kit I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I saw that recently of yours and I was like, I wanna get that because you know, a lot of the drinks that are not, I. Can Actually, let me ask you a question real quick. There are tons of drinks that they're, I feel like the market for non-alcoholic drinks has really exploded, but they're marketing people that like alcohol.

Is that, does that make sense? I know there's a name for it, but do you have opinions on any of those drinks? Like are any brands great? Like would you recommend any of them? Yeah. So, I general, I, I try some things on a regular basis and if you wanna see that, it's usually on Instagram. But there are some, there's, so there's categories. There's like, just like bougie seltzer waters, there's, liquor, you know, liquor replacements that are made to taste just like liquor.

And then there's things like with adaptogens and yeah, things that kinda calm you down. Things with caffeine and stuff in it too. I've tried a lot of it. I actually went to a sober. Sort of retail convention where they had all these different, different drinks to try and stuff. And it was really cool cause I'm, I'm researching for my box. Yeah. And what I have found is that when you're trying to cut back, if you just go to the things that taste like alcohol, It's, I would still plan for those.

Just, just some advice. Like I would still put those on your plan because your brain doesn't know immediately that it doesn't have alcohol in it. And it can instill, kind of like, it can increase your desire for it. So I tasted this rum that was like, whoa. And I haven't had any hard liquor in five years plus, you know? And so I tasted this non-alcoholic rum and I'm like, like it was crazy similar. It made me kind of like just put a little red flag up. It's like just. Just be careful with it.

You know? It can, it might increase your desires for it, but other things like, some of the adaptogens, I think. They're okay. You know, they're very expensive. I tend to go for more like cans of like bougie teas or sparkling waters that have like sophisticated taste. There are some really good, non-alcoholic like rose champagne that we'll do on like special occasions, but honestly for that I almost just like the Welp sparkling grape juice. So Good. Yeah. I'm a fan.

You know, so yeah, I think just, just, just tread lightly and explore some things, but plan it, you know, put it on your drink plan. So that was a long answer, but love that. Thank you for sharing this. We're gonna make sure to link everything down below cause I think people are gonna be so excited for all these different things that you talked about. And thank you for spending this time with us today. Thank you so much for having me.