Just what is pure and authentic faith? What is the tale? Can you tell us me?
Sure of course I can tell you. So please everybody check this blood from Times of Israel dot com. H that gives me lots of trust. And it's going to be extremely funny when you try to see the excuses that apologiest gives and I can only laugh at them. Let me quote from the article. When the Bible says we were formed in God's image, it essentially talks about our god given ability to think independently of our bodies. Guys,
ability to think. Keep this in mind because whenever people say this, they kind of ignore the fact that, in the first place, the Bible is a combination of several stories in which humans were made in the physical image of the Creator, minus the understanding of good an evil. Read your Bible. That's why when humans ate the fruit of knowledge, they became like the Elohim, which are the council of gods that have created them. And thus they
got expert from the garden of Eden. That's why when they eat the fruit god quotation Mark says, oh, now they are like us, because now they understand the difference between good and evil. Therefore, whenever they say, oh yeah, the image of God is that they can think they are lying because they didn't have the ability to think, or at least to understand good and evil, which means they were not able to understand mistakes, and they were
not able to understand morality, amongst many other things. And try to understand that became the original scene. Why do I mention this because they don't even realize that they are contradicting themselves when they say, I'm quoting again from this article. And yet one of the fundamental principles of becoming godly and serving God is accepting His authority in complete and pure faith. Our connection with God is reflected
in the strength of our faith. So literally, they are saying that faith is not thinking, just asking them to obey and avoid thinking, the total opposite to what they said in the beginning with the oh yeah, God's image God giving ability to think independently. Don't you do this scenic contribution? What do you think for real? Am I am I gracing here?
Oh my God, I I have a I think faith is the most dangerous thing a person can have, because there is nothing that you cannot end up doing because of your faith. Because there's no because of when you have faith in something, there's no evidence to support you. And so if you think that God is giving you a message to go and do something, if you have faith, you're going to go and do it, no matter how
atrocious or horrible it is. Now, fortunately, most people that are that believe they do good things out of their faith, but there are also there it's easier to be destructive than it is to be to be good, and the destruction does more harm. And so when somebody decides to be destructive because God says so, it's really damaging.
Kelly, Yeah, it's it's it's it takes a lot less time to tear something down, and it just does to build it up, doesn't. That's for sure. Right, I'll definitely agree with you on that one. This this whole article started out on a bad note to me, And the first thing that I noticed was the same exact quote that Tao just mentioned. And what got to me was, how do we possibly think independently of our bodies? I mean, how do you do that? Isn't every thought you have
come from your brain, which is part of your body? Right? Is there any kind of thought of your own that is independent from your body. And then from that point on it just got nuttier. Right, The whole article just got nuttier and nuttier and nuttier.
To me.
He at one point he used to train for an analogy, and all I can think of was, Man, this guy is on the crazy train, right. And then later, as I got near the end, I realized, no, that this article was just a train wreck in and of itself.
Right.
God, I couldn't believe how horribly bad the logic was in this and to think that, and he keeps reiterating it throughout the whole thing, that faith is so much better than thinking things out, and I just appalled by it.
More.
You want to add, yeah, I've got that. When he says, oh, I'm trying to thought tail go ahead.
Sorry, that's how bad it was.
Just I wanted to say, you say logic, I'm not sure that that word means what they Okay, I was going to mention many things.
Oh yeah, they want to believe that there is that the mind and the brain and not the same thing, because obviously not thinking it's easier, and they if they can say that it's magic. Oh, there is the need of a gash. But okay, they say so many things, as you mentioned one that I want to I want to quote quotation Mark to be honest, I think in person will be fine relying on faith because even the
most rational person can reach this conclusion through reasoning. So as you see, they are saying that by faith you can be rational, when being Russian is what have brought most of us out of religion and made lose faith. I don't know when to say us talking about Killian, Aaron, but I'm talking about myself, and I met several Christians who ex Christians who have gone through these why right of understanding logic, understanding critical thinking, realizing how faith their
faith was. Aaron, I don't know if you want to take the take your train back before I continue, because I have many things to say.
No, I'm going to tack on what you said there that I could not understand what his argument for this was. His claim is that any rational person is going to come to faith, it's going to have faith. But he didn't make any arguments about to support that claim. He just kept making claim after claim about things that like the train, I just have no words. I just don't even know what the logic behind this article was. Essentially, I think his thought process was I don't understand this,
so it must be God. When we don't understand something, it must be God. And I don't agree with that logic at all.
Yeah, that's in there, right, I'm sorry, you go ahead.
No, I'm just saying the same of you. It's God because I don't know it.
Yeah, okay, it's either God or a bunch of tiny horses.
Right. Oh, yeah, that was the idea.
Yeah, we have to have an explanation for something, right, If we don't know, we have to have an explanation. Have to have an explanation. The answer can't ever be I don't know. So we've been talking about this pair of this analogy that it makes about the trains. The analogy was that a train comes to a farm farmland
for the first time. This is the first time these people have ever seen a train, so they have no idea how it works or anything like that, and so somebody comes up to and asks, let's go inspect this train to figure out how it works. And they're saying to themselves, well, it must be horses, right, because that's the only way you can get around that fast with horses, So they must have horses somewhere in this train. And they look and they look and they look, and they
obviously they can't find any horses. And so their conclusion is, well, we can't find any horses, so it must be a really mighty miniature horse that's running this train.
No, you don't have any evidence to support that.
The only conclusion is I don't know how the train runs. Let's continue to investigate.
Tell But you know, the big problem here is that they don't realize this. They destroy their own argument because they say, Okay, it's tiny horses, and we must have faith that is tiny horses in the same way that they must have faith in God. And they don't realize, Hey, if you go and educate those people in what an engine is and how it can make the train move, they will stop believing in tiny horses in the same way that people if you educate them properly, they will
still believing in silly stuff like God. And I have to say, whoever who wrote this stupid thing, I mean, this article, they don't think much about anything, they said. Quotation mark. A fifty year old professor can explain his fifty years of knowledge and experience to a two year old even though it's all relative. And I love this word relative because it makes me think of certain guy. Maybe you have heard of Ainstein. A lot of people
give him some quotes. I have no idea what I'm going to quote it is for him or not, but I found it on the internet, so it must be true. My favorite quote from Ainstein is if you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. This is to say a guy with fifty years of professor, a fifty year old professor whose job is to explain things, Yes, they can explain things to little children because they can
make it simple because they totally understand it. The fact that you, guy writing this stupid article don't understand something doesn't mean other people don't understand things either. It only means that you don't understand something. So yes, a fifty years of professor should be able to teach some of his topics. Obviously, he's not going to spank his whole life or hours and hours teaching boring to death to a little child. But he can explain some of the
stuff that he knows in a very simple way. So the whole train of thought, train of thought of this article is derailed awful. Yeah, Kelly, I see without job.
Yeah. I don't know if he even realized he was destroying his own argument with that train analogy. You know, Oh, you just gotta have faith, you know, because faith was really good. It can even lead you to tiny horses. I just it seems like a stupid argument to maker stupid analogy. So I'm not even sure the guy understood that he was like really tearing up his own argument
by using that. Right. And you mentioned the you know, not being able to say something to a two year old and if you can't explain it to a five year old. That is so true. And that's one of the things that one of my good for one of my good geologist friends, he's retired. He was getting bored and he didn't know what to do with himself. So he started teaching at the local elementary school, actually at
the Catholic school. He's not a Catholic, but he did anyway because they had an opening and he was teaching these little kids, and he actually brought them into our store because we have a huge, huge selection of rocks that he could use to demonstrate and teach them about. And I was able to teach the kids stuff, and you can talk to these kids in a way that they understand, and you can see the lights start to
shine in their eyes when they're getting it right. And it's one of the coolest things that I've ever done is teaching science children teach it, teaching these concepts that even some adults don't get and breaking it down and showing kids how it works. And they are a lot smarter than you can give them that most people give him credit for. So that really bothered me that he was like and and I mean to use a two year old was a little bit of kind of a stretch.
I think he went. He was like bringing it to the absurd there, But you can talk to a five year old, somebody that has already learned to reason and understand stuff. You can make break anything down for him so that they can understand it.
My thought was, who explains their life worth life work to two year old?
Right? I didn't even think that, Yes, if he's.
And if he's making it, I think he's making an analogy that God is the fifty year old and we're the two year olds Compared to God, God knows everything and we're just little two year olds that know nothing. Right, It sounds like God isn't quite as omnipotent as he says he is, because if God can't explain things to me as a two year old, then he's not omnipotent, is he?
Yes?
Right? So they it's all because yeah, if that's what they were trying to say. Now the next sentence that I have in here makes more sense. That says, in the same way, we must appreciate an accept that if God can create this vast and precise universe with seven billion people, it is impossible to ever understand his wisdom and mind. And this is literally the meme we cannot understand God. So let me tell you exactly got God what God thinks? All right? God once and also only
seven billion people. So I guess there is no life outside humans on all animals or they don't exist apparently.
I like the way he invoked Pharaoh too, because who is the biggest, baddest bad guy before Hitler? It was Pharaoh, right, I mean, that's it was so so I thought it was funny that he would invoke the oldest baddest man ever to highlighted that you have to be evil evil if you don't being God believe in God. You don't believe in God, while you're as bad as Pharaoh. Oh my horrible person, you right, And it just seemed like
this underhanded insult that anybody who ed an atheist to me? Right, and then right after that he goes into disparaging education. And I think we can all figure out why, right, because higher education is in fact the enemy of faith. Right. It reminds me of that old Steve Martin joke. And can you imagine dying and actually going to a cliche cliche heaven. You'd be standing there in front of the pearly gates and you're thinking, oh wow, man, in college,
they told me this was all bullshit. And I think that's the only part of this piece that actually really really pissed me off.
Right.
Essentially, he's saying, you don't need to be educated, you don't need to learn stuff. Faith is better. All you gotta do is have faith that you're right. How do you not get pissed when you hear stuff like that, Right, I don't really don't want me.
What you're saying is perfectly reflected. When that's a huge thing. The writer goes, unquote, who was it? Rabbi Menachim Mendel of cod Kids something like that, who said I do not want to have faith in a god that is understood literally is saying that he wants to be irrasianal. He doesn't want to understand. He just wants to have faith. And they even say faith as an inference of intellect
is not faith at all. It is intellect entirely limited by ones thinking, almost as if knowledge that saying that knowledge is limited was something bad when you need the flaws of that. But no, faith is infinite, so you can't believe whatever you want. All right, that's so awful, Aaron, I know that you can continue this line of thought. Yeah.
So I imagine this article came out because I don't know how how old this gentleman is. He as kids, but I imagine that either his child or his grandchild came up to him and was asking them all sorts of questions about his faith, about why this, why that? How come this? How come that?
And I can just see him, well, because we have to have faith more and.
Got all angry, and I've said about these plain and simple questions that a two year olds asking, and when I wrote this article as a rebuttal to all the tough quesquestions that people ask of religion, and and he does not succeed in making making this argument. It seems like his whole point is stop asking questions and just accept things on faith.
Why do you have to know how everything works?
Yeah, yeah, there were you know, there was one other thing and it got me angry too, just right near the end. It was the idea that if your life isn't good, it's okay, it's actually good anyway. All you need is that faith again, right, You just got to have faith in God and everything's fine, that's all. And it's just what a load of crap, What a load of crap does somebody who's suffering from depression. Oh, all you got to do is have faith in God and you'll be fine.
You know.
It's just it's it's infuriating to me. It's an infuriating that somebody who who supposedly is educated could spout this kind of crap to somebody, to other people.
Yeah, reinforces the notion that if you're if you're suffering, it is because you're not obedient enough, or you're not faithful enough, or you're not something enough, and so you just have to work harder it and that's that's just not the reality, right, That's not how our bodies work and our brains work.
And yeah, yeah, yeah, I was going to say, what can you expect from our religion that says that being sick is either a demon inside your body or got punishing you because you did not want God wanted.
So yeah, yeah, well we're gonna have to start wrapping it up here. We're getting there in the end. I had a great time with you guys, man, I tell you I always live hanging out with you and Aaron. It was wonderful meeting you, and we're going great to be here.
I had a lot of fun. Yeah.
I hope we get to do this again together. I had a blast everybody. If you enjoyed this and you want to have more conversation, get involved in more conversations like this. You can actually get involved in them by joining our fans social media outlets. You can find a lot of the nonprofit hosts that the Atheist community discord.
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With, Yeah, I love being here with you guys. Aaron, you are such an awesome dude. I'm happy that I got to meet you and Kelly. I always enjoy being with you, so thank you on Profits for allowing me to be here. I love you, I love the public, I love everything from here.
Aaron, Yeah, the same thing. It was a lot of fun talking with you, with you guys about about this. Tayo is great to meet you. Kelly is great to meet you. I hope I look forward to coming back on the show in the future.
Yeah, I look forward to it. I look forward to working with you again too. Eron, I had a bless with you today. That's about it. We're gonna wrap it up. I want to thank everybody for watching and listening, and I will see you next week.