Today, we're diving into a powerful story of resilience and self discovery. Jared Walker grew up in a world consumed by fear. An eight year old child convinced that the end of the days were right around the corner. Raised in the Worldwide Church of God, a white supremacist doomsday cult, Walker's childhood was dominated by apocalyptic prophecies and disturbing doctrines. Yet despite his church's racial prejudices, Walker's black family believed
they were chosen for salvation. But when the promised dooms day didn't arrive in nineteen seventy two, his family, like many others, faced a reckoning. How do you rebuild a life when your beliefs have been shattered? Today, we'll explore Walker's journey from a childhood defined by control and fear to finding his own path free from the shadows of fantasism.
This story forces us to reflect on how institutions can manipulate the vulnerable, and how reclaiming one's autonomy requires immense courage. Stay tuned as we unpack Gerald Walker's transformation from a child trapped in a cult to a writer who reclaimed his life. This story is from the Guardian by Steve Rose, published on September tenth, twenty twenty four. So, aj, I'm coming to you what role does fear play in maintaining
control within doomsday cults? And why do some individuals remain loyal even after predictions fail.
I think that it always comes down to childhood, to how you're raised. If you see in many of these very extreme religious cults, or even Christianity Catholicism, you find that kids erase to believe things are the same level of factulness. Right. You teach kids something like we need water to survive, or Jesus perform miracles, or you're going to go to hell if you don't do X, y Z, and all of these things become exactly the same. They become just as true as the other. So you grow
up believing all these things. You grow up believing that your soul is going to go to hell if you don't do as you're told. And generally this is being taught by people in a position of high authority, leaders of the church, even parents. Unfortunately, parents don't really have that choice of becoming that because they grew up exactly
the same way. And I think this is how people go from childhood to adulthood, thinking that they have to stay within these structures, within these cults, no matter how harmful they become.
I was thinking about how psychological factors can also make one susceptible to this. Did you want to possibly touch on that, Scott, Like, what factors make people susceptible to joining or staying in harmful organizations that Aj just alluded to, like the world where Church of God despite clear, like crystal clear contradiction.
Right.
Well, I mean we're social, social species, right, and so we're influenced a lot by our society, by our people that we see as peers, people that we want to be like, that we want to be around, that we rely on to help us, that they rely on us. That gives us a sense of purpose and a sense of belonging. And so being part of a group is just a massively huge influence on an individual of any age.
But as Aj pointed out, children have the additional I shouldn't really call it a drawback because we evolved to develop this way. But children really just believe whatever their parents say. You know, they they start out, they'll believe whatever they say. They'll do whatever you tell them to do, and they'll stick with it. And and so that at
that early age. I think it was Aristotle that said, you know that famous quote, give me a man by age seven, or no, give me a child, but before age seven, and I'll give you the man, meaning that if you can, if you can implant, implant, if you can encourage particular beliefs at that young age, then they will last throughout their lifetime. But even once we you know, we see adults joining these groups and staying in these groups, and you know, why can't they just decide to leave
the group after the fact. Well, because there's lots of social support in those groups, there's lots of uh, it's frowned upon to question the beliefs of the organization and especially to question the you know, the leaders of those organizations. In the In the previous section segment that we talked about this week, we brought up the idea of authoritarianism and so that that you know, very much central to
the to many religions. You know, many religions have a god at the at the at the head, and who dictates what what should be done and what you should not be doing, and that kind of thing. And so from the very beginning from day one, from page one, even it's a it's a very authoritarian approach and so and once somebody gets in with a group like that, it's very tough to shake those feelings because you feel like you're rejecting your identity, you feel like you're rejecting
your friends and family. And so, you know, we have very evolved, strong emotions that try to keep us tied to that group, even at the expense of our own well being and and truth to be honest, and so so psychology definitely has a major impact on that. And that's what makes it so, that's why that this kind of phenomena is so persistent, is because it's our nature to kind of go along with it and to and
to stay with it. You know, we've seen so many of these, uh you know, these ends of the world group professing to know when the world we're in and obviously they've been wrong so far every time, every time you would think it would sink in and it's not. So there's got to be something happening behind the scenes.
And I think it's that, you know, you know, our evolved psychology, which happens to have a side effect of you know, promoting this type of blind belief, and it can be frustrating, but it's human nature and it's probably not going to change anytime soon.
You know, Scott, you brought up something that I kind of want to touch on because of the struction of this particular church worldwide church being not only a doomsday cult,
but a white supremacist doomsday cult. And you can even imagine Gerald Walker's family being part of this organization, being a black family in the sixties, seventies, in the sixties and the seventies, listening to their rhetoric, being who they are because you can't change your race, and still having to believe or being taught that they have to believe the things that's being talked to them over the pulpit.
I kind of want you both to kind of, you know, glance on this, because I believe both of you are brought it up in your own research. But Ag I'm coming to you first. How can the intersection of race and religion complicates one's identity, especially in environments where white supremacy is normalized.
You know, I think a lot of these doomstaate Coats and other extremely nationalistic type of Christianity. It wasn't very extreme. They use that type of philosophy that makes it where the rules have to be exactly this, and then you have to follow these rules. So to me, like the most surprising aspect of the specific story of Walker was the cognitive dissonance that was sorry to justify participating in
a group that actively segregated its members. So Walker mentioned that black members had their own separate church and they were not allowed inside the white church, and it made me wonder whether the rules were even the same, given that you know, even heavenly rules were different. For example, the church founder made it very clear by preaching that white people were made in the image of God and black people were put on earth to be white people's servants,
and that heaven would also be segregated. So even though black people were going to be saved and were allowed in the church, it would not be with white people. So Walker stated that the church founder Armstrong used a scripture from the Bible to excuse that racism, which actually helped the black members accept the idea that they were inferior to white people because it came straight from the Bible.
And as I mentioned earlier, these are words that you are meant to take literally and strictly and these are these are the rules. So this, unfortunately is far too similar to like the horrific practices of slave Bibles that were used to indoctrinate slaves right to keep them obedient to their white masters and preserve the system of oppression of African slaves. And I feel like they were using a very similar concept here.
That's what I thought of as soon as I read that part, is like, this is the same type of techniques that were used in the Antebello South during slavery. The Slave Bible specifically omitted passages that alluded to anything that had to do with freedom, emancipation, being able to
even you know, see yourselves as like your counterpart. Because I believe that passage, I want to say, I'm not sure if it's in Nophesians or if it's I know it's like one of Paul's books where it says there's neither male nor female, Greek, nor Greek, nor Jew, bond nor free. We are all one in Jesus Christ. So that would be a passage that would have been completely
taken out. Matter of fact, I believe that the majority of exodus in the Slave Bible was completely omitted because that is a story specifically talking about, right about how God freed the children of Israel because He was their chosen people and they were bonded to too long in Egypt. So it's interesting how a lot of times and I think about this and you guys, just forgive me. I just gotta I gotta get this out for a moment, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is kind of the thing that I talk about
a lot. But it's interesting how one can use the Bible specifically just by cherry picking certain ports in order to fit a narrative that you're trying to basically propagate. Right, So this whole notion of white people are superior to black people, that this is the reason why we have to keep you separate and have you regulated to certain positions in the church. You cannot be a church leader or you can only be an underling. So far because
you are black, you are not white. And God has a specific area that white people are supposed to occupy and a specific area that black people are supposed to occupy, and that is to be white people's servants. It's the same thing that was also written in mind Come by Hitler.
He said the exact same thing. He even though he is said basically very anti Semitic things against Jewish Jewish people, but when he got to other groups of people, especially black people, he said, well, you're not evil per se, but Jay that smarten either. So the only thing that you really can do is this be servants to the arians, i e.
White people, the perfect white people.
Right.
So it's it's it's interesting, like how I keep saying interesting because like you know, I'm trying to I'm trying to be objection I'm trying to be objective here, guys. But it's it's, uh, yeah, I should actually say it's dumbfounding that these this particular rhetoric exists, and how it has been recycled in generation after generation, and how and how superbly effective it is in order to actually keep
a certain group of people subjugated. But I'm sorry, Scott, I was taken away from my question that I was asking you, because I know you alluded to that particularly that same thing as well in your research, So please talk.
Well, I mean, it's it's going back to the to the racial issue.
Right.
If I remember correctly from the article, this particular group preached that black people were lower than than white people. But then they also said that the black people that participated in their group were a notch above black people that were not part of the group. And so I think perhaps what we can see here. I'm not not an expert on this, and I'm certainly not all that knowledgeable on what it's like to be a black person going to church.
But we'll talk after this.
Yeah, Okay, you're right, you give me the give me the inside scoop on that.
Sure.
But but we see this kind of thing with like
conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists. Psychologists say that they're attracted to these kind of things because they feel like they're special, like they they're in on some kind of special information, they know something that the rest of the population will know, or in this case, they're they're part of a group that's going to survive at you know, when humanity gets wiped out in that kind of thing, or they're going to be sitting at the at the head of the table,
or at least, you know, maybe serving the head of the table, but at least being part of that process. And so it's it's hard to imagine that that kind of impetus would be powerful enough to to encourage a family that we're stuck in a situation where they were being looked down upon. They and they would look forward to it. They would they would lap it up and say please, can I have some more? And it was just very It's very it was very frustrating to read.
For one thing.
It was very I could feel my chest tightening, and I could feel my stomach getting all riled up. And it was just a very unfortunate situation. But I think we see it quite a bit. And and and it's not just racial issues too. You you wonder why a black family would be to this church group. But at the same hand, we can we can wonder why women
flock to Christian churches. I mean, women are not uh you know, they don't have an exalted spot in the Bible, and uh you know or LGBTQ people, right, why why do they continue to support their Christian you know, their pope, even their pope who says that, you know, you can't be gay if you want to if you want to
get into heaven. And so it's from that from the outside, we might boggle our minds and think, how could somebody fall for this stick right, but you know, it's it's it's got there's got to be some part of human uh, the human condition that urges us to go into that way. And I think the the being part of the special group, being in on the on that uh, this secret knowledge and that kind of thing being part of the in group can be very very powerful motivator.
And clearly, uh, it happens here.
The second thing I would bring up, though, is that just religion in general, I think is very powerful. We you know, we talk endlessly about how people are taught not to quite in their religious beliefs. So so slaves in the Antebellum South of the United States were we were taught that this was the way it was supposed to be by your your slaves, obey your masters, even the parole ones and and so uh. It literally says that word for word in the Bible, and so so
so they're taught to it. It's a side effect of or maybe even a feature, not a bug, but of just religion religious thinking in general.
We talk about where's the harm.
This is a big piece of the harm, right there, is that if you if you buy in, if you take that first step into irrational belief, even even if you are in the quote unquote friendly religion or liberal, you know, Christian or that kind of thing. Just taking that step across that threshold makes everybody on that side of the threshold stronger. And so by by moving in that direction, you're more likely to fall for these kinds of statements, for these proclamations that different people are on
different tiers and society. And you know, if you want a question that you'd be questioning your identity, you'd be questioning the entire group.
And so it's there's just it.
If you think about it from that perspective, it's amazing that not more people are caught up in it, and you know, it seems like it's just an overwhelming force and it's it's very frustrating. So I think that makes it all the more important that there's people like us that want to talk about it.
Is quite a bit of people.
Yeah, and yeah, exactly, like you know, it's in Christianity, like the biggest religion in the entire world. Yeah, well, you know, I know that we were talking about, like, you know, the whole thing about people being stuck in this belief system, right, but you know, one of the reasons why we are talking about this story specifically is
that Walt Walker found himself out right. So, ah, I'm gonna come to you first reading the article, if you can just think about why do you believe that maybe some individuals, why Walker, succeed in escaping the cycle of reduction self destruction while others like his brother did not.
You know, I think it has a lot to do with with also how you are, how you are raised, right, like all of your your environment and your upbringing. You may even be raised in the same house, but your experiences the way that you're perceiving them are going to be a little bit different. And I think a lot of people who actually go into religion are taught not to question, as we mentioned earlier, and not to not to put too much thought on what these wolves are
telling them. Right, So there is a lot of focus on this eternal life, and there are making so many sacrifices on this earth to achieve that goal, and part of that is attempting to I'm sorry to we're just cut that off and even answer the question. Yeah, okay, I'll start right there. So I think the reason that some people are unable to come out of that is because they just completely refuse to use that method of critical thinking, right, and there are people who are who
are actually exposed to two new ideas. One of the things that I always find most fascinating is that people who start reading or who got to college are some of the ones who are more likely to convert from religion. And as you mentioned Walker, he became a writer, and I believe that that was you know that and his passion. He more than likely was somebody that that began reading a whole lot. And I think that that information sort of was the difference that it made between him and
his brother. You know that the access knowledge and it's just that's just to information.
Maybe access to information is very important. I really believe that when people are able to get different thoughts from what has been put to them previously, and different ideas and just a difference of even opinion can definitely interrupt some aspects of indoctrination. And one of the things that you know we are a part of is the atheist community of Austin. And one of the things that is the I believe the most important portion of that name
is community. And I'm wondering what is our responsibility. I want both of you all to just you know, just kind of give like a minute response to this if you can. What is the responsibility of communities like us to have supporting people who are leaving harmful religions and helping them integrate back into normalcy in society. Uh a J I want you to go first, and then Scott be around us up.
All right, Well, I want to go into something for a second that I thought something that was really important in this in this specific case, as I disabled person, myself being legally blind and death, I couldn't help but sympathize with his parents. You know, both of his parents had lost their vision due to some traumatic accidents in childhood. And I can recognize that religion and codes of them pray on and take advantage vulnerable people who are going
through experiences that are very traumatic like that. So Walker said that his parents were promised that their bodies won't be whole and that they won't regain vision when Chris Christ returned, and he believed and I agreed, that his parents' blindness played role in why they were so willing to participate in this court. That was you know, in turn,
extremely harmful to his full family. So to answer, to go back to your question, I think that this is something that we as the secular community can do more
for to help people who are more vulnerable. Right Like in their case, there were blind people and both of their parents were blind, and I think that the community as a whole could have done so much more to give them the support that they truly needed to succeed, so that they didn't turn to such a controlling environment that eventually, you know, took advantage of them and took their money, and took their happiness and took you know, Walker's life basically was was completely entangled in that.
Yeah, I think that's uh. I think that's very important.
And we also need to take into consideration speaking of the responsibilities of communities like ours. We talked about information already, So first of all, providing information. It's it's it's important that people like both of you are saying that people hear a variety of perspectives, that hear a variety of opinions,
that hear a variety of approaches to thinking. Uh, And so that in itself can give an individual, can empower them to make changes in their own life, can it can empower them to think about things in a slightly different way to quote unquote rely on their worldly thing, you know, their worldly reasoning and that kind of stuff. But I think it's also important that communities like ours
and AJ was talking about this do provide support. I mean, it can be traumatic to leave a situation like that, to leave a situation where your family is supported, where you're where you feel loved, where you feel have friendships, where you identify with the group. And these these small cult groups are I mean, they could be very tight, and so their their identity is very closely tied into that group.
And so when you leave that group.
You're leaving everybody you know, and you're leaving everything you ever had, and you're leaving everything you've ever known. And so being able to not only have information that there are communities like that are different out there, but also then when the rubber meets the road, is the support
going to be there? Are are there going to be people that can pick up the slack as far as the social the loving requirement, the friendship requirement, maybe even helping each other with you know, financial issues or finding a job or finding a new place to live, and you know, things like that. And so I think you know, the combination of information and support after the fact, I
think that can be that can be very helpful. And you know, religious groups aren't going to provide that, and so it's up to us to get that stuff done.
It's up to us.
Yep.
Well, Walker's experience highlights the dangers of dogma and the ways in which it can warp family bonds and personal potential. Despite the indoctrination that led him to feel chosen yet inferior, he ultimately broke free of those constraints. His story is a reminder of the importance of questioning narratives and polls on us seeking our truths, and the transformational power of
education and mentorship. And I just have a personal side. Boy, what could Gerald Walker's life been have been may have been like if him and his family were familiar with black non believers. I'm just saying, I'm just saying.