Welcome to the nonprofits. For our second segment.
This week, we go all the way to Utah, where the science seems to be slapping legislators in the face. AJ, what's going on down in the Beehive State?
Very true? Yes, So. Although Utah's Governor, Spencer Cox is a Republican, he has been very open about his support for transgender young people's rights. In twenty twenty three, he introduced a bill in order to get the Utah Health Department to conduct a review of medical evidence so that they could collect data regarding the effects of medical treatment for transgender kids. He hoped to get a deeper understanding
of the science in order to better serve them. However, legislators that supported transgender care bands hope to prove that this kind of medical care was harmful. But now that the review has arrived after two years, those that supported the ban and wanted the review you are not really happy about the results, and they've decided to do what they do best, ignore them, just like they do the entire Old Testament.
Easy, busy.
So this story is from mother Jones by Madison Paully on May twenty four, twenty twenty five.
All Right, AJ, let's just keep it going.
I want you to talk a little bit about these results. And so the headlines call them inconvenient. You know, we've said that, you know, it's kind of slapping them in the face.
What were some of those results? What did they find out?
Yeah, So the authors of this studies said that the consensus of the evidence supports that the treatments are effective in terms of mental health, psychosocial outcomes, and induction of body changes consistent with the affirmed gender in pediatric patients. So the evidence also supports that the treatments are safe in the terms of things like changes the bond density,
cardiovascular risk factors, metabolic changes, and cancer. So it's their expert opinion that policies to prevent access to the use of gender affirming hormone therapy for treatment of gender dysphoria and pediatric patients cannot be justified based on the quality or the quantity of the medical science findings or concerns about potential regard in the future. So they say that high quality guidelines are available to guide qualified providers in
treating pediatric patients who meet the diagnostic criteria. And here the keyword is experts in qualified providers. Okay, this is how it should be, Like, yeah, we trust the advice of these people that have studied, that have worked in the fields. And this is not blind trust. Again, it's not blind out theo he trust. Yeah, what we trust is that this science is proving itself over and over again, you know, based on repeated testing.
And then it couldn't be more obvious, it seems to me. I mean it was completely unambiguous against what, you know, what they were saying, or actually in favor of what the governor was going for. You know, the governor wanted support for these kind of programs. Opponents say, no, no, we can't do that. Let's see what the science has to say. And then the science comes back and it is totally in favor of those kids.
Well, I mean even more so. He wanted truth. So even if he wanted support, didn't want support. He funded like shit with some really good controls put in place, and like he just wanted to like settle it. Like and that's where I can appreciate somebody. It's like the dude like irrespective of you know, the team that he plays for, Like he's a decent guy. Like fuck, yeah, this dude, like Yeah, we need more of these guys for this guy.
Yeah, if you're doing good things, it doesn't to me, it doesn't really matter. Like there is a local representative in Texas that has been fighting against things like the same commandments and he's a Christian like that kind of things.
Yeah, bro.
Yeah, But then of course now they're backtracking right now now that the science has come through, you know, they have at least the the facade or the image of well, let's see what the science has to say, and then the science comes back and then they're like, oh, who cares what the science says, here's what we want to do. Anyway, it seems like it like they've just kind of whipped it out right there. I mean, it's like they're totally exposing their their their motivations. I don't know, agy what
do you think about that? What do you think about how does this affect, you know, the perception or at least the know. It seems like the facade is not even a good word, because it's like they almost don't even care what the what the optics look like, and it seems like it's just.
All about the goal, all about the end goal.
We need to end up we need to take whatever we need to say or do or ask or research any particular you know, whatever whatever is possible to get us to this predetermined outcome.
I don't know any anybody have any thoughts on that.
Oh man, Yeah, I really think that it doesn't really matter what the results were. Those that were in support of their healthcareman for transgender kids, weren't going to do whatever they wanted to do in the end, Like there were just that was the plan the entire time, to ignore the results and be like, hey, you know what, now we get to design what we already knew we
wanted to do. They just wasted out of that time, Like they don't even like they ignore the science that's eventually going to be guiding these qualified providers that we just talk about, like that's what's showed matter, Like, you do the research, then you give that information to the providers and let them and their patients make these decisions like doctor, surgeon, psychologists. They let them do their jobs and understanding of the treatments to the patients.
Dude, all those all those providers are they're representative of truth. I mean, what's the job that I do right now? It's I represent international codes that are like very strict. And when I go to these job sites and I do these inspections and we do these tests and these chemical tests and all this nerdy science shit, and I'm like, well, this obviously fucking failed. They're like, well, blah blah blah. I'm like, dude, look at look read my fucking code Bible.
You know this is this is what the Code Bible says. You can't argue with this. This is what you also agreed to and signed. So even if you say the code you too, you agreed to do this, and this isn't the thing you agreed to, So like, you just have to fucking do it. So you can cry at me all day if you want. But I'm just representing the truth at this point. So that's where the whole
experts are. All they are are people who have been vetted and trained to take things that are true and in the medical sense, and what I do as well make sure that the things that are happening do no harm. Right at that point, we're just doing quality control on humanity. And I don't know what the fucking problem is other than what aj in Scott, what you guys are saying is that they have a fucking ideological motivation. And I'm sure somebody's lining their fucking pockets because let's face it,
this is America. Somebody's making money on everybody, you know.
So this is an ideologically based exactly. So if you say you believe a fucking thing in an area where it's saturated with people who are purposely ignorant, and you have campaigned for their ignorance in that area and in theun data and inculcated them with your own version of shit, that makes you money, and then you all everybody gets a job because everybody who fucking knows each other, you know, I know you, you know me, We get each other a job. That's how it works everywhere in America. I
don't pretend like it doesn't. I mean, that's why Johnny Depp's fucking daughter gets that fancy ass role in that movie. I mean, come on, you know, so when you look at what's really happening and you admit what's really fucking happening in this world, somebody is being incentivized to be a piece of fucking shit and to treat people like shit. And that's it. There's no mystery behind it.
Right right, exactly. I do have some research I wanted to bring up. But before we do that, aj, I wanted to ask you, I know that you had a little bit about the scope of the research. I mean, it wasn't just a just a single paper that they were looking at. What tell us a little bit about the about what it was that they were looking at.
Yeah, I wanted to point out that what was published on the whole thing that happened throughout all of these two years wasn't a single study. It wasn't like a clinical trial type of results. Rather what's called medical evidence review. And so the Drug regi Review Center at the University of Utah spent those two years compiling all that data and the results of other studies and literature regarding the
effectiveness of gender affirming care for trans youth. So the authors, after they collected everything, they said that the conventional was domb among non experts has long been that there is limited data on gender affirming pediatric care. However, the results from our exhaustive literature have led us to the opposite conclusion. So basically, the federal government recently tried to do a similar review, right, and except that they didn't like three
months and do that. Unlike right, unlike the University of view that review the government papers cited fake experts and papers that never existed. So I mean you can decide here, Okay, which one would you trust more? An artificial intelligence review with fake sources or a University of review that took two years and the high proper citations.
Really, you can't get a stronger scientific statement than that a literature review of all available evidence compiled into a single report.
I mean, you can't get stronger evidence than that.
Cited cited, which is the most important.
Part cited with real citations at should point out, which is, you know, that's it's not just citation need. We need to add the you know, we need to change the you know, the common phrase citation needed, real citation needed.
We need to add to that, yeah, citing citations. I do want to throw out a little bit of research here because one of the main non religious arguments against gender affirming care and youth is that is that this type of care can make changes to the patient's bodies, which of course is the whole point and the intention that it can, But they say that it can be difficult or impossible to reverse, and so but again, not surprisingly, the actual real research shows that this is just not an issue.
Here is.
This is from a twenty twenty three study published in the Journal of American Medical Association Surgery. It says, quote evidence suggests that less than one percent of transgender people who undergo gender affirming surgery report regret. That proportion is even more striking when compared to the fact that fourteen point four percent of the broader population reports regrets after
similar surgeries. For example, studies have found that between five and fourteen percent of all women who receive mastectomies to reduce the risk of developing breast cancer say they regret to do so. However, less than one percent of transgender men who receive the same procedure report regret.
And so if we.
Compare the exact and so, they are making changes to their bodies. They're trying to, you know, make their outer self look like what they feel like their inner self is right. They want to make themselves whole, They want to make themselves complete. They want to they feel like it's their destiny. And I feel like I'm I'm going too far and what I'm saying here, so please rain me in if I am I don't want to. I
don't want to speak to anyone else's experience. But the evidence shows that the regret levels are just way way lower, and I don't know. It seems like it should undermine that argument. Obviously it doesn't. Some people don't listen to things like actual research and that kin kind of thing.
Sorry, Jason, go ahead, what were you going to say?
No? No, the look man even And I don't want to call it extreme because body modification. I mean, look at me, I'm covered. I don't give a fuck. You know, it's your body, dude, you are your body. Not even it's your body. You are your body. Do what the fuck you want. I don't care that said. Let's let's let's let's take out surgical, hormonal chemical. Let's let's get rid of that. If you look at transgender youth, let's say, ages thirteen to seventeen, what's amazing is then this is
consistent across the board. Is that just a we're talking a singular like primary socialite, primary agent, like a singular parent, like a singular person who shows unbridled support for their explorations, for their for their social transitions, for the name changes, for all the things that anybody who has a transgender or gender fluid kid understands speaking about this. Things like
again trigger warning, things like suicidality are drastically impact. What we see is for those who do not have a primary agent who is supporting you again one parent, one very like one very close family member, Like it's got to be like inner circle shit. Like if you're not supported, your suicidality risk goes up like across the board, like eight to nine hundred percent. Like we're talking it is ridiculous how much risk you are at as a trans and I mean, and it's very similar for just literally
for queer youth in general. As an umbrella statement, we're talking five six hundred percent on average suicidality, suicide attempt, suicidal ideation, Depression, I mean, we're talking depression. If you listen to Sebalski, is the number two killer in the world, like true depression. Depression. Depression is a physiological, physical illness
that just annihilates humanity. It's it's up there with heart disease and what it does you physically and physiologically and socially, what it does to your whole being is is just insidious. And it gets perpetuated by by fucking monsters like these people who are who are promoting this insidious, horrific goal that they're capitalizing on. So if people actually cared about things like truth, actual truth, like real things like I'm talking into a microphone talking to two people that I
really like. I got a bag of chips next to me that I can't wait to dive into in the next five minutes. And some apple juice I've been drinking that tastes great. That's the true shit. So true shit also is if you affirm these kids and you affirm adults, they keep on living. And what's really funny is queer people in general, whenever their lives are just as normal as everybody else is, actually report a higher quality of life than straight people, which is fucking hilarious to me.
So less suicidality, more joy in life, less, less death, anxiety less, I mean every thing, like more straight report, more hobbies, more and more advancements. I mean, yeah, so you know, maybe they're just scared. You know, maybe it's scared because they hate us. You know, you're gonna hate on us because we're so fucking awesome. So I don't know, those are my feelings.
That's really part of the asenine, the most asenine part of this whole thing is that all of the research you know, you mentioned all these different psychological outcomes, emotional outcomes, social outcomes, uh, physical outcomes.
It's across the board. It is it is uh.
Definitely significantly one sided and unambiguous that there is that there are benefits to to supporting call me crazy, supporting human beings for to be themselves. I mean, it seems it seems impossible to me that somebody could not appreciate that.
It's just I mean it. I would try to.
Get into the mind of that of that mindset if I if it didn't terrify.
Me, not that hard man, Why does that seem impossible to you?
I don't.
I don't I want to understand, but I want I'm worried about what is that? How is that going to smudge my Soul's simple?
It's cognitive dissonance.
Man.
If if you people people use that word all the time, that term cognitive dissonance. What they don't realize cognitive dissonance has to do with your self esteem, right, and it is one of the most well studied things in psychology. Your dissonance will push you to do horrendous things. And that's it. Anybody wants to look into it, feel free to look into if you care about how human beings think and why they act the way they do. Cognitive fucking dissonance, that's it.
Yes, ye, sorry, I want to make sure we get into AJ, but I want to direct you with a little question here first and okay, sorry, go ahead.
No, no, no, you go first to a.
Right because I wanted to make sure it because we're running out of time here, and I wanted to make sure that we touched on that. I wanted to make sure that we touched on the religious art against against this kind of thing, and so supposedly the argument is that this goes against the will and intention of God and we're changing God's perfect work. But I want I want to hear from you AJA comment on that in regard in the context of other types of body changing
treatments that seem to be okay. I mean, we have things that are simple and superficial, things like hair plugs, things like cosmetic surgeries and stuff like that, all the way up to you know, the more severe end of things like congenital heart defects and cleft palates and stuff like that. It seems that some kinds of body modification are acceptable and some of them are not. What are
what are your thoughts on that? Is this really just basic hypocrisy or is there some kind of significance that we're that we're missing.
I think it's a little bit of what Jason what was talking about? The cognitive dissonance? Okay, because there is no other way to explain it, really, how somebody cannot support Joinder affirming care for transgender people only because they supported in any other context. I you know a woman who has had both implants, and she's recently had a whole facial surgery with like neck stuff done, and like what they like pull your skin and they literally like
peel the outer layer of your skin. It's like the whole thing. She looks way different than she did before the surgeries. All right, So how are you not changing what God the way that God made you? How does how does that not change?
Right? Exactly?
Yeah? So, like I completely support her right to do that, Okay, but just the way we support that, we should be supporting transgender people's rights to do the same with their bodies and it can't even be more simple things like
not superficial things like that. If I am definitely right, I was one with pretty severe hearing loss and what was that twenty seventeen, I had a cochlear implant, and I was like a year ago I was talking to a Catholic family member and we were talking about drungender people and like the way that they, you know, they should be allowed to have whatever surgery they want to. And I was like, what about like something like my implant?
Should I not have heard that? And he's like, well, you should have really like been happy with the body that you would give.
Oh seriously, like somebody even say that. I think it's a good thing to say, fuck you there.
Way is exactly what Jason was talking about. That's the kind of thing that you get pushed into saying. That's the corner that you get painted into. Not this type of approach.
You yeah, because you have to, because if you don't support one, then you cannot logically support any kind of surgery, not even not even life say mean sogery.
It's fucking insane. That's how people can morally bankrupt. Dude, You're right, they can't support They have to keep fucking they have to keep fucking letting it go. And it's just fucking lies in the leveolence all the way down until they like sacrifice their own kids for their own fucking appearance. It's crazy. It's them.
I need to go out.
I think I need to go for a run or something after or I need to work out some of this some of this energy here. But uh, but excellent, excellent conversation. I really appreciate both of you sharing, uh, some very personal information too. I mean it's it's uh, I mean that just really kind of adds the exclamation point to the to the to the opinions that you know, with this kind of thing affects real.
People, and you know, it's easy, it's easier, I.
Should say, to to push things off if it's not it's if it's not in your backyard or not in your family, or not in you But you know, we we all know people that that this is affecting one not you know, directly, and so it's, uh, I don't know, it's it's you know, I thought people were supposed to care about each other. I thought people were supposed to help each other. I thought people were supposed to work together. I thought we were supposed to be a societal animal.
You know, maybe my expectations are just too high.
They are it's by design, man, There's no ethical consumption or interaction in a capitalistic state.
So excellent words to end on here. So thank you both again for participating, Thank all of you for listening. I really appreciate that. I hope that you get riled up about this this topic, just like like we did.