Hey, they're friends. Remember when spiritual but not religious was all the rage. Well it's back like that nineties fashion you hope would stay in the past. A recent gallup Paul says that thirty three percent of Americans identify this way, and it's got me rethinking my skepticism. Turns out politics plays a role. Republicans are more religious, Democrats lean more spiritual, and independence are somewhere in between. So is this label just about political vibes or is there something
deeper going on? Maybe it's time to give the spiritual but not religious crew a second look. The story is from Deseret News via Yahoo, published on September twenty sixth, twenty twenty twenty three. And before I pass it off to Kelly here, I have a limerick here that's going to explain to us. It's going to put to rest. What does spiritual but religious mean?
I asked this of chat GPT. I said, give me a lyric about what it means to be spiritual but not religious, And he says, a spirit that's free, not confined, no doctrines or creeds intertwined, and seeking truth on their own in silence. They've grown spiritual not religious. They find they're away, Kelly, that was awesome. I'm still not sure what people mean when they say they're spiritual. I ask a lot of people who used
the word. Most of them can't explain it either. It just seems to be a buzzword for something tangible that most people don't really seem to understand. What are the good definitions? I've heard, though, was being cognizant of the connectedness of all people and the world that we live in, And if that's what it means, that's a pretty good definition. But I'm not sure that we can agree what the idea of interconnectedness is, so it becomes a
little nebulous on that end too. But I think it's a good working definition to begin with and explore through conversations with people claiming to be spiritual. It does seem to be a way station along the road to atheism, though. I've noticed that as the amount of nuns, the people not affiliated with any religion in the United States seems to grow, the amount of spiritual people seems to grow as well. And I'm not so sure that that's people diving into
atheism or agnosticism. I think a lot of that is people who are tired of churches organized churches. They still believe in God, they still believe in Jesus, but they're really just sick of organized church. So they don't go on Sunday, they don't practice their religion, but they'll still pray to Jesus when something bad happens to them. And I think that's where a lot of these people who are saying they're spiritual are at inside their head, at least
within my own experience. I don't have any research to back this up or anything. It's obviously just my own experience, but that seems to be where most people are at. I still believe in God, I still believe in Jesus. I still pray when I need to, but I don't need to go to any church. So Cynthia, what is your what's been your experience
with this? Well, you know, when I first accepted the title and nomenclature is HEYTHEUS, I ran across a joke that said that black people who say that they are spiritual are really atheists, but they don't want their mother to know. You know, guys, I struggled with this whole thing about spiritualism versus religiosity, and especially being an extra Christian that was in a holiness church that came out of a of Zuza Pentecostal background that liked to actually utilize
terminology like it's about relationship not religion. I think that some of us ex fundis have heard at a time or two, and I remember even being on like you know, call in shows like Talking than a couple of times and even truth wanted where that came up, and I would ask, Okay, so I can point and say that I have a relationship with my mother and I can give you her name, I can tell you where she lives,
and if you want, I can actually show that she exists. So I have a tangible right, right, that's a tangible relationship that can be observed and that you know, people will be able to say that, hey,
guess what, this actual relate, this relation ship actually exists. And I believe Cynthia when she says that she has a relationship with her mother, because she produced the person and she's a relationship with Now going back to this whole thing about spirituality, and uh, Kelly, could you please repeat the definition that you found. That's sure spirituality, thank you. Sure it is being
cognizant of the connectedness of all people in the world we live in. Okay, So that just to me, if I were to hear that definition, that just means that I'm conscious that other people exist, and I have a potential, I have potential relationships with people who happen to exist, you know, they're the whole spirit lost. It seems a bit vague, right, Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's lost in that. So even if I listen to that particular definition, I'm like, okay, so where's the spirituality?
Right? Is that not just being in a world with other people? Yeah? Yeah, Like how is that not just being like, you know, I'm in relationship with Infidel and Scott and Kelly because we happen to all be members of the the atheist community of Austin, and we all happen to be participants of the nonprofits. And I think it's more about having an interconnectedness with everybody though, even the people that we don't know or have an actual physical connection to, do you know what I mean? Well, okay,
but here's the thing. When we say that, you know, what what can be considered physical or intangible? I mean, like I struggle with that too, only because if we were to say that, like I'm conscious of other people existence. I'm conscious that are other people in the world, and I be able to have relationship with them, and I am aware of their exist since even though I may not know them personally. But the thing about it is is that there are physical means to actually connect us to others.
There are cell phones, there is the Internet, there is email, There is getting on a flight and flying to a different country and learning and meeting other people. And I know that there are other people who may even exist outside of this particular realm. It is because there's already been things that demonstrated
that people exist. But again, where is the spirituality? And I think that another issue that I have specifically with this whole terminology is because Kelly, this is the first time that I'm hearing that definition is on our panel. That's the first time when you are talking to as Cynthia Man. Jeez man, there's a whole world out there, Cynthia, you just got to go out there and talk to these spiritual people. That's my problem. That's the
problem. That's the problem. I'm not aware, but you know, but regardless of that, guys, you know, in all seriousness, like when you are talking to people who happen to have this nomenclature or identity of spiritual, and you ask him what does that mean. You are going to get different responses. Some may come with you with the Kelly's definition. One person told me spirituality is breath. I said, well, can't you just say
breath? You know? I mean, like, I remember when I was a thinner person of more flexibility, and I practiced yoga, and they would talk about breath and it was prana and and I guess like that was like Hindu for spirit and and I guess like there's like some connectivity with other religions, including like Christianity do a jail Christian things about you know, the breath
of lifel blah. The word spirit has its root that means breath. Mm hmm yeah, okay, respiration right, respiration has spirit right embedded right in it. So I mean that's high schools. That's not too much of a stretch, sure. And I mean, like, and if you want to equivocate, you know that I am spiritual, So I believe in breathing.
I'm fine with that, man. But the problem is is that you have other loaded ideologies when it comes to saying that you are spiritual, and it normally has to do with being a person that believes and even maybe practicing something that has to do with, you know, it's the supernatural, which we can't even say with full confidence exists because we don't have any type of method to prove the supernatural exist. But I want to know what Infidel says exist.
This is for you. Meet you, meet you, I want to know that what exists, this is for you, Cynthia, Well, you know, thank you. When I was a believer, I'd admit that I was dismissive of that whole spiritual's concept. So I'm probably the wrong person to ask on what all of that means, because I felt it was a rather tepid position that intended to exist between two viewpoints. Now, one thing that Cynthia you did mention was, you know, coming out as an as an
atheist and realizing that, you know, that's an adjustment. I know for me, I I spent a while telling myself I was agnostic, not really understanding that that really isn't a middle road between atheists and theists. But I feel that's somewhat what we get with oftentimes with people who call themselves spiritual. You know, they they want to say, okay, they want to tell the religious people that, you know, I'm spiritual, so you know, I'm not one of those atheists. I'm not one of those people. I'm
close to what you are without really committing to anything. And of course with secular people, it's well, you know, I'm I'm spiritual, but I'm not really like those religious people. Those you know, those people who you know are out of their minds or whatever you think about them. I've got my own version of feel good WU. But as dismissive as I am towards them, they do point out one thing very clearly. Christianity is dying.
What we're seeing is both Christianity and Islam in the throes of their own demise. You know, I was mentioned earlier about the nuns. You know, people have been leaving organized religion for decades. Every metric shows it. The church membership, the nuns, and Christianity is running scared. And the truth is they should be. You know, just bronze age myths just don't have the same relevance today, and people are looking for something to fill that void.
They feel that maybe in their life and this spiritual catch off phrase has become an open slate for whatever sounds good at the moment, and that's what scares me. You know, most of them are coming out of Christianity. You know, the pump's already primed to accept bad beliefs without serious examination.
And my concern is is that as they learn to grow out of these spiritual beliefs, you know, they're just going to replace these with something just as bad and unhealthy for not only them, but for us as a society. That's what I know. Now I'm glad, Yeah, now I am glad to see people casting off the chains of religion. But one set of bad ideas down, one more to go, you know. And this is one thing that I think. It's a reminder of why it's so important what we
do. You know, it's helping people understand that you don't need to replace religion with something else. It's all a lie. Just just put it to bed, just like you did religion, Cynthia. You mentioned being from a Nazeusa Street Pentecostal background. Man, you rung a bell there, because you know I'm from UPCI United Pentecostal Church and you know, so it was the same concept and getting out of those things and deconstructing from that. You know,
it's it's a loss of community. It's a loss of so many things that you were so familiar with and so comfortable with. And I get why people do it. I just don't think they have good reasons for it. But that's why, as I said, I think it's important that we encourage people to explore those to ask those questions, as more than one of us has mentioned, of asking what does it mean to be spiritual? To put those ideas in front of them so they can self reflect. It's not a
matter of confrontation. It's a matter of them thinking, do I really have a good reason for feeling the way I do? Do I really have a good reason to believe what I do? You know? But the truth is, for me, it's kind of a situation. And I admit I'm a little bit of an extremist time to time. I know that may come as a shock to all of you. I'm glad you're all sitting down, But for me, it's pick a side. Either you believe made up shit or you don't. And with that, Scott, what do you have to add?
I will add, well, first of all, I would like to add I'm calling bullshit and not on what you were saying. I agree with what you were just talking about, but I'll come back to the bullshit what you You and Cynthia too, we're both talking about how or Cynthia, you mentioned that some you know, some people are accusing of these people maybe accusing is not the right word, but accusing them of being really atheists, but
they're just not, you know, don't want to admit it. And then Infidel you were talking about people that have the flip side, right, the people it's it's uh, people that are religious that are distancing themselves from religion.
And we saw this, this idea in in the segment earlier this week when we were talking about Christian organization wanting to petition TBN to not broadcast my cuckabee because he's you know, talking about bullets and ship, right, and so so we have so the idea that they're uh, here, we're seeing this fracturing of of this block. And so it's me, I just need for you to say one more time, bullets and ship, bullets and ship.
But yeah, so anyway, so there's this distancing, there's this arm's length, uh, saying, you know, yes, we're Christians too, but we're pushing you know, there's there's some distancing going on. So now back to the bullshit here, And I want to illustrate my thought here on this whole here. Here's how I can sum up my perspective on the spiritual but not religious crew. And so I'm I'm gonna recite a few lines from
the movie Mystery Men. And this is a scene where the Shoveler and mister Furious are talking about another superhero, Captain Amazing, and why they just can't get as much press as Captain Amazing is getting. So the shoveler says, well, if we had a billionaire like Lance Hunt is our benefactor, and the mister Furious interrupt says, that's because Lance Hunt is Captain Amazing, and the Shovel's like, no, don't start that again. Lance Hunt wears glasses.
Captain Amazing doesn't wear glasses, and mister Furious is like, yeah, because he just takes him off when he changes. And so that's what's happening here. We're seeing, Yeah, we're onto you, Okay, just because you take the glasses off of religion doesn't mean that it's not Lance Hunt still standing there in front of us, right, it's still the same stuff, and it's not I appreciate I and sorry I'm getting a little worked up here.
I appreciate the distancing. I appreciate that you recognize that religion does harm and that you don't want to be associated with that kind of thinking, that you don't want to be associated with that kind of acting, You don't want to be associated with that kind of philosophy and ideology. And I think that's good. But I'll give you another analogy here. I prefer Russian Roulette players
that survive over Russian Roulette players that don't survive. Now, of course it's better and it's great when if people survive that ordeal or as opposed to not surviving it. But that's not the problem, right, You're not addressing the problem. The problem is the game, right. The problem is the actual action of doing the Russian Roulette, and neither of those positions affect it. And so if it's not, Yes, there are things that come out of
religion that are harmful. Subjugation of women, the mistreatment of children, sexual mistreatment of children, fraud, all kinds of things, and so we know that that happens, but just saying, well, I'm still you know, I still want to believe in something bigger than my you know, I still want to think that there's a power out there. I'm just not one of them. Well, you know that's the issue. It's the irrational beliefs that are the problem. They're the source, right. The other things are are
horrible, but they're symptoms. There are symptoms of this virus, and the virus is the irrational beliefs. And so if you that's just my opinion obviously, And so I think the spiritual but not religious crowd is just putting a band aid on this cancer and it's not going to it's not going to heal it. It might stop your bleeding, it might stop you know, the you know pain or whatever, but it's not going to fix the problem. And I think that until we can, and I'm happy that we're moving in
that direction. You know, this isn't all a bad thing. But what I'm saying is that until we address that root cause, the source, right, until we admit to ourselves that damn it, Lance Hunt is captain amazing. Okay, they're the same thing. You got to treat them the same way, and I've been hogging the mic enough, Kelly, why don't you tell me what's on your mind here? First off, kudos to you for bringing up Mystery Men, because it is hands down my favorite, my very
favorite superhero movie. A Kelly when Yeah, but you're absolutely right, it does. This is more. It's still a symptom of bad thinking. A lot of these people who are spiritual, they're not giving up this irrational belief in super in the supernatural. A lot of them still believe in ghosts, a lot of them still believe in alien abductions, a lot of them still believe in kryptids. This is it's not the end of bad thinking. And I think that we need to maybe show these people that it's okay to give
up these irrational beliefs. You don't have to pretend that you're still spiritual. It's okay to be an atheist. It's okay to not believe in spirits, it's okay to not believe in ghosts, it's okay to be a rational thinking person. I think that's very, very important that we set an example to people for that and to let people know that they could join us. So I mean, I don't have much else to add than that. So Cynthia, you want to take it, sure, I'll take it and run it
on home. So one of the things that this particular article also highlighted, because it was really about this Gallup hole that talked about in June of twenty I'm sorry, July of twenty twenty three, it basically revealed that the landscape of the United States is changing. Nearly half Americans forty seven percent identify as religious, while thirty three percent consider themselves spiritual not religious, and only two
percent claim both. And also the data has shifted over the years, as the proportion of Americans identifying as religious has declined by seven percentage points since nineteen ninety nine. And we will include the gallupole for all of you guys who happen to be curious that it also shows how those particular numbers will show up when it comes to how you identify in politics and and how you may even like you know, utilize that in other groups that you know are important to
you when it comes to the idea. But I think that one of the things that this particular article actually revealed that the findings in the Gallup Pole suggests that while religioniosity is on the decline in the United States, the majority of Americans still maintain some form of religious or spiritual connection. And the rise of spirituality and the increase in those identifying as neither religious nor spiritual indicate ongoing shifts
in the country's religious landscape. So it's going along with the trends that we actually seen and reported on this show. And Scott, I think that you said that you I feel because I feel the spirit feelings. Yeah. I just wanted to add one little bit at the end here. You said that the poll was showing that the landscape was changing in America, and I think that I think that this is a change for the better, right, I think this is what we're seeing here is our country maturing and and it reminded.
And I know that this is a I know this is the nonprofits. But I want to share my favorite Bible verse. And my favorite Bible verse is from First Corinthians thirteen eleven. You might know the what I'm talking about. Yes, Oh, we got to say, everybody in your Bible, go to right follow along if you like. It's when I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, and I thought, as a child became a man, I put away childish things.
And so when I see this kind of thing happening here, Yes, we're putting away childish things. Oh I shay, shay, I know that's right. And you know, just just to piggyback on what you just said, Scott, because that, really, you know, spoke to my spirit.
I will say it again. I've said it before and I'm going to say it again that with more knowledge of our environment and our universe, the need to use religion as an explanation will come to not and to me, this indication of spiritual is more of a wanting to have one's cake and eat it too. And I'm not going to balk at one if they want to claim spiritual. But through more inquiry and more use of the Socratic method, my
favorite spiritual becomes, in my opinion, more inconsequential. But what's not inconsequential, dear viewer, listener, It's more for the nonprofits. So click here