Good evening, everybody, and welcome to this week's first episode of the Nonprofits And don't forget. Just below this video is a little donate button. If you love what we do and you want to help support us, please send your love. Whether it's a dollar, twenty dollars, whatever, I don't really care. But tonight our first article is going to start in Colorado, where the Supreme Court has agreed to hear a challenge to the state's ban on gender
conversion therapy four minors. The law House Bill nineteen Dash eleven twenty nine, which went into effect in twenty nineteen, is being challenged by a Christian counselor, Kayleie Chiles, who argues that the state's ban on conversion therapy violates her right to free speech. But is this not just a case of forced religious indoctrination being disguised as free speech? And what about the protections of the unwilling participants who
happen to be children? What rights do they have? This story is from Axios by Avery Lotts on March time and twenty twenty five, and here to discuss with me, the I are AJ and infidel sixty four AJ. I want to start with you.
Is there any.
Legitimacy to Child's claim that her free speech rights are being violated.
I don't think so. I don't see it as a violation of her free speech rights because if you think about it, she is welcome to discuss any type of topic that she feels she has to discuss with her clients. Right, if somebody comes to her and wants to discuss their their gender, their sexuality, there's sexual orientation, they're free to do. So what she's not free to do is force that person to convert to what she wants them to convert, because that's what conversion therapy is. They want to convert
somebody to what the therapist wants them to be. Right, Like, if you go and you're a gay person, then they want to turn you straight. If you're a trans person, they want to make sure that you, you know, go back, go back. I'm sorry to go these gender. So I don't feel in this specific instance that it has anything to do with free speech.
Okay, all right, Well, if fidel I want to ask you, then on that point that AJ says, well, you know, they don't have to force this kind of thing on children, right, or they can talk about anything but what about the parents that force the children into that situation?
Do it?
It's kind of like I don't know, getting a tattoo for example. You know, you need the parent's signature, right If the parents are bringing the kids to this conversion therapy, does the counselor have a right to push the religious agenda on that child?
Well, first, I want to delve into a little bit of what AJ was talking about, because it leads into exactly what you asked me, okay, And you know right now, though, you know, the whole idea of this being free speech is ridiculous because speech you can, as AJ touched on, You know, you can, you can say what you want
to say. A white supremacist can say whatever terrible things that they want to say, But that doesn't grant them to go out and you know Harvard pick up you know a few African Americans that bring them out and put them out in the field to start harvesting cotton. Because under the guys are helping them find their rightful
place in society. You know, someone can rant about how women's place is at home, but it doesn't mean you can go out and lock up women and dictate that they're what they can and can't do under the idea of traditional values. And so when it comes down to this, you know, parents have a right to believe in whatever pseudoscience they want to get what they believe is the best choice. And it does get tricky because I do believe that parents should have a fundamental first say in it.
But at the same time, like we've seen cases where people pray for their kids instead of bringing up to the hospital, you're causing harm. And in this situation as well, I don't think it's really debatable on whether parents doing that would be causing harm to their children. And so with that in mind, I am very hesitant to think that parents should have the right to do something that's just a fact that you would be causing harm.
Yeah, sure, and I agree medical malpractice is what I'm going to call. This should not be disguised as free speech. And I have a quote from the director of Law and Policy of the Trevor Project, and forgive me, I didn't jot down the name, but in any case, this person says, to be crystal clear, this challenge has nothing to do with free speech and everything to do with pushing dangerous, debunked practices that have not only proven to cause irreparable harm to LGBTQ plus young people all across
the country. So, you know, I think that you know, there is this idea that you can kind of claim constitutional violations whenever you're the religious person, right. I think that our society, especially the way that we're moving, is kind of conditioned people to say, oh, but it's God, it's God. With reality, we have to call it what it is, right, It's medical malpractice, it's abuse, it's harm
to children. Know the statistics on suicide and mental health being high among LGBTQ plus youth, and so aj I want to go back to you. I know that you had a point to make about the quote unquote erasing of LGBTQ people, and maybe that quote might lead into that thought you had there.
Yeah, you know, I was thinking that conversion therapy is banned in Colorado, right, and this is where this has happened. But there were so many other attempts in the past to challenge this band. It's hard to believe that even though it was already out loud, there's still I think, I want to say, over fifty maybe states that actually
have loopholes for allowing conversion therapy. I know that twenty of them have it completely banned, and you could correct me and that if I'm not correct on this, But just like you said, this is just like medical my practice. Okay. Every major medical and mental health organization in the United States has rejected and condemned the use of conversion therapy, including, for example, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics,
the American Medical Association. And yet in a report that came out in twenty twenty three, there were still over a thousand and three hundred active conversion therapists operating in the United States except for Vermont and Hawaii. But half of those are associated with a religious organization. So this has nothing to do, like you said, with freemous speech or anything. That it's just trying to convert people based on a religious belief.
And you raise a great point, and before I get to that, I want to kind of close out this free speech idea or get I have a question for infidel and then I want to come back to the idea of religion and and conversion therapy. But you know, if where is the line drawn between the psychiatrist's freedom and the patient's rights. In other words, at what point does therapy just become too much?
Oh? First, I think that when it comes down to therapist rights, I think they've already lost from my perspective, just arguing from that perspective, because while I'm giving willing to give certain latitude to the parent to adhere to policies and viewpoints that I find even reprehensible, when it comes down to be a professional, if you're going to present yourself as a professional, I think that there's a
whole different level of expectations. And I don't think you have any damn free speech rights or you know, we see these things bleed into things like people wanting to say, well, you know, I can't give you medicine, I can't give you birth control pills because I think it's wrong because you're an unmarried mother. This is the same thing. If you got a job to do, do your job and be a professional. It is not your job to to get up on a on a soapbox and tell people
what you think. The hell with your free speech? So I say that they they've already lost me when they first said free speech. Yeah.
Absolutely, And that's a point I haven't considered you know, when you agree to maybe help people with their problems, you know, the concern about your agenda should not be a concern at all. I mean, this is not about you, This is about the patient. And you know, we see
that in a lot of other sectors in society. You know, I've been to counseling before, and I just know from experience that, you know, my counselor, when we get too close to their own life, will pivot back and say, you know, let's stay focused.
That kind of thing.
Military chaplains, regardless of whatever denomination they represent, they're required to help other people of different denominations, and you know what, they take pride in it. So I don't understand why we can't see the same thing. And it's an interesting point you raised, aj, you know, just to clarify what you had said. So conversion therapy completely banned in twenty four states. There's a partial ban, in five there is a prohibit, and then on the flip side, bands are prohibited.
So you cannot ban it in four states, and that's Georgia, Florida, Alabama, and then Indiana. Interestingly enough, there's no ban in the remainder and so that's eighteen states. But in any case, I wanted to kind of speak to a point that you made. I have never seen a secular therapist with an alternative agenda. Right, The conversion therapists are always religious, and that might seem redundant, but you know, why is it.
Why is it that it's always this conversion out of your perceived gender into the gender that society wants you to be. Why does it always come from religious people?
I think the same reason why the hate comes from religious people, right, is all I will relate it, like in angles, back to the teachings that they put out in church and from your own from even in your own family, from childhood. Most religious peoples are already being in shape to believe that they you know, being gay is wrong, being transgender is wrong. And so these these people grow up to be adults and eventually they're gonna
they're gonna grow up with the same exact beliefs. And I think that's that's basically why you don't really find secular therapists that are trying to apply this conversion therapy. Honest, to be honest with you, I've never really heard men either, Like you said, there's there's just no, it's just not something that you hear about, like whenever you're saying exist.
I just don't know. I don't know if any.
I think that the point that I made earlier and some of the research that I did, where I say that thirteen hundred therapists, that half of them were associated with a religious organization. It was simply major organizations, okay, with like churches and Catholic hospitals and such. So I think that more than likely the other half are religious but not affiliated with a large organization that one could recognize us, you know, like oh.
Yeah, yeah.
And on that note, you know, infidel, I want to ask you, why is it that Christianity conflicts with another person's bodily autonomy? I mean, what are think it's so concerned about.
Oh, the very basis of religion in general, but specifically in this case Christianity. It's obedience. I mean, it's obedience without thought. I mean when when you look at the going back to Genesis, the first sin was seeking knowledge, to seek understanding, and that has not ever been something that Christianity or religion in general, tends to promote. It's always obedience, follow the rules, you know, do what we say, are whatever the hierarchy above you says you're supposed to do.
So I think that that's part of it. And I think that we've had, unfortunately many people latch on to certain things, like you know, there they are so gung ho to tell us about what the Bible says about LGBTQ people, but there's so many other things that the Bible mentions more frequently that this kind of cat goes by the wayside because it's something that they're that's close to them, so they don't talk about it. So I think it's a matter of projection of lack of obedience
to other people. And I think that that also comes from a position of superiority, which is something else that's hardwired in the religion.
Yeah. Absolutely, and I don't think that it's any surprise that Conservatives and Christians meld together. I mean, take a look at the wave that is that is happening in our country. I know I mentioned that same term earlier, but it is it's kind of a wave. I mean, it might be it might be kind of identity politics that have been suppressed for a long time that are
that are now becoming exposed. But in any case, we're seeing an increase, and it's among conservatives in this country that are that are acquiescing and just following blindly to people in power and basically taking whatever they say as gospel. And that happens in Christianity as well. Right, you follow the person with the book, you follow the person with the with the text your entire life, and you never question it. And we see that in conservative politics in
this country today. So again, no question why conservatives and Christians get along so well.
I will say this.
The conservative group Alliance Defending Freedom states that Colorado disagrees with Chile's excuse me, Colorado disagrees with Child's beliefs on gender and sexuality so much so that it puts itself in her counseling room. And I don't think this is a case of the state injecting itself into the counseling room. I think it's a case of the counselor injecting religion on unwilling participants. And so, ag I wanted to see what you had what you had to say about that.
Now, you know when I think that's interesting when you were talking about the conservatives, because it seems to me that the majority of people of religions that have issues with LGBTQ people are from conservative religions, not specifically Christianity obviously in Catholicism is part of Christianity, but you also
have Muslims and all of the Abrahamic religions. Like if you look at Bullhists, they don't care about algibetqple, Like, you don't see them advocating for conversion therapy and stuff like that. It's really interesting that it seems to be only the conservatives that are focused on that obsession with changing and erasing completely GIBTQ people.
Yeah.
Yeah, ifidel we have got when it comes to conservatives, obviously a conservative majority on the Supreme Court. What's the significance of that makeup to this fight over conversion therapy and gender and sexuality in society today.
Yeah. For me, it's a very concerning thing because I know that Supreme Court in the United States has owned previously a decline taking up cases like this. I know Kavanaugh, Alito, and Thomas have been in favor of it, and I think that that's a very dangerous thing for us to be gravely concerned about because we see it. I mean, Thomas has even been open enough to say that, you know, maybe with this whole same sex marriage thing and contraception
weren't resolved the way they should be. And with Alito, I mean he's even referred to lgbt Q as rights as Satanism. So when you start taking things into that consideration, you know, Gorsa, he's all backing, He's back business discrimination against LGBTQ people. Barrett. She's been linked to essentially what I would call re education groups, you know, conversion therapy to style type of behavior. So with this in mind, I am gravely concerned how this is going to play out.
Because I think that the Supreme Court is right for changing some things that we thought were safe as we've seen in recent years. I think that the LGBTQ rights is something else that very much could be on the chopping block byers.
I don't think they understand the harm that they're doing, Like how harmful this is for young people. There's studies that have shown that young LGBTQ individuals whose families don't support them are eight times more likely to have attempted suicide than those who had family support. And then you have the American Academy of Pediatrics that has publicly stated that these therapies directed specifically at trying to change somebody's
sexual orientation or their gender is not recommended. Okay, it can prove guild anxiety, and in fact, over half of tranksgendered you say that they have seriously considered suicide in the last year because of their discrimination the rejection that they face. Have so much conclusive scientific evidence, right, and consensus among mental health experts and scientists affirming that when you support an lgbtqu's child's identity, it protects their mental hope.
And the evidence shows that, you know, even trying to suppress this is just really really harmful. So yeah, conversion therapy should just not be practiced at all.
Yeah. Absolutely.
You know, on this show we have covered time and again the effects of banning gender affirming care and seeing that when that happens, not only our mental health CRIS is more prominent, but so is drug use. People that are self medicating, you know, people who have to seek their own treatment because they're the help that they're getting is being eliminated. It's it's the the drugs that like
antidepressants and anti anti anxiety medication. It's things like regular hormone treatments, and we start to see a rise in mental health issues for people when their identity, when their gender and their sexuality is not taken as a serious issue, and it's just bad for everybody, especially the children who religion seems to always come for first. And now I think conservatives have shown that they are willing to do
the same thing. So if you are interested in seeing more of these topics talked about by the nonprofits, make sure you click one of the links below, and don't forget to tune in in two days on Wednesday Night where we talk about Doge how it's cutting aid and keeping billionaire welfare.
Thanks