In Florida, the Satanic Temple is stepping up to fill Google council roles after a new law sign by Governor n DeSantis allow religious chaplains to a public school. Yes, you heard that right. It seems the devil is in
the details, quite literal. Lucian Greeves, Co's founder of the Satanic Temple, argues that excluding them defy the First Amendment, while DeSantis insists Satanism isn't a religious So grab your popcorn and suspend your belief as we explore this unexpected twist in the ongoing debate over religious freedom of public let's get into it. The story is from the Hill
by lexilonis published July eighth, twenty twenty. So, parent, I want to ask you, when we're considering constitutional rights and religious freedom, what are the implications of allowing religious chaplains, including those from non Christian faithed like Sactany, in the public school setting.
Well, you know, children are very susceptible. They're like little sponges. They believe leave what they are told and by trusted adults. There's a reason miners have there's laws around miners and age of consent and things like that because it's really really easy to take advantage of kids, whether you intend to or not. And so it's what we teach our kids is really important because whatever you teach them, it is indoctrination because they are not old enough to know
if they're being indoctrinate or not. They haven't their brains aren't developed yet. So we have to be really, really careful. And so if we start introducing chaplains in schools, children are going to see that as oh, this religion is right, this person's religion is correct, and I should follow that religion. And that's not something we want to indoctrinate our kids with.
Indoctrinate our kids with. We want to indoctrinate our kids with the ability to think critically, to think skeptically, to understand human biases and how to use the scientificific method to get around our biases, and to understand the way the world works rather than the way our brains think it works. Those are the things that we should be teaching our kids, how to find jobs and all that good stuff. But we should not have religious people in schools.
It's just that's not the right place for it. If you want to doctor your kids with religion, do it on your own time, do it on Sunday, do it in church, but don't do it in school. We're paying for school as taxpayers, and having religion in school it favors one religion over another. And what if I'm not your religion. I don't want my money going towards those kinds of services. Even though in this case there's no money being spent because the chaplains have to be volunteers,
they can't be paid. But I think my point still stands.
That's fair, that's fair. And I want to ask you, Tao. I think that you talked about a little bit about your experience with especially like since we're talking about the possibility of having Satani's clergy in public school, you want to tell you a little bit more.
I have an interesting story about those guys. Actually, the first time that I read about them, I really this slight the idea because I saw them as a counterpart to religion, which they actually are. But I was checking that they have their own tenants, they have their own leaders or stuff like that, and I was like, dude, did you really leave your religion to join another paramiter scheme?
But now actually they just do this one to mock religion and to because they having all of that, they can legally be a religion despite them being all or most of them atheists. I work with some with many Satanists nowadays. Some of them are cool people, others are assholes,
So it depends on the person. But I called them a tacles of religion because they dress themselves as religious people just to fight against religion, which I think is amazing and it is something that is actually needed because they show their religious people why there should be no
religion with special privileges. I mean, you think it would be enough telling them, hey, look what is happening in the middle is over there, there are religions that have the power, but apparently know they see not and they want that but with the religion version, with the Christian version instead over here. So when you have the sudden ext temple that they dress as Satanic people, that they
go with their prayers. I remember when they were fighting to have their own prayers instead of the Christian ones at the beginning of what was it do when you have judges and all of that, Well those things Christians were screaming and they were very anxious because I know they are using real words, they are cursing us because they believe that the religion is kind of true and
all the magical stuff is real. So having those groups telling people, ay, you cannot go and put your monuments wherever you want, because in that case we can do the same, and we have bafflement that is something that you hate and name them, realize, yeah, maybe we do need a separation so that these evil people that we don't like don't do whatever they want in the same way that we do it. And I think that what they are doing is something necessary and good for them.
Good for them, I hear that. I hear that.
So, Kiera, I was curious to get your thoughts. Governor DeSantis describes Satan as not and excluded its members from participating in the Chapin program. So how should governments navigate the inclusion of diverse religious practice in publicans it's while ensuring fairness and constitutional compliant.
Well, that's a great question. I think I'll answer the second part of your question. First. I think the best way to navigate that is to not make attempts to implement or favor one religious belief or group over another. The further that government organizations and policies can stay away from religion the better. That is my understanding of the
law in most cases. But as far as being able to say, well, this is a religion and that is not a religion, that that is a legal question that has come up, there is legal precedent that it's a
little bit murky. I think one of the ways that it's been defined is something as a religion if it functions as a religion to the person who is practicing it, So, you know, by by that definition, I think certainly Satanism and the Satanic Temple would would obviously fall under that definition, and and I think under most others that are commonly used when we're talking about you know, sincerely held beliefs about issues of ultimate concern, people's beliefs about you know,
questions of meaning of life, death and so on. And there is absolutely no precedent for suggesting that something is not religious because it is not theistic. That is certainly not the case. There are plenty of non theistic religions besides the Satanic Temple, Buddhism, Taoism, that that is not an excluding factor. So I think it is actually fairly an absurd claim to dismiss out of hand the Satanic
Temple as not a religious group. I think that anyone making that claim is going to have a difficult road
ahead of them. And the problem with that is that it I think it reveals the motivation here, which is not to introduce a program where children can have access to chaplains who represent them or are going to be reflecting their beliefs, but rather, I think this is intentionally trying to institute a program where certain religious beliefs and representatives of certain religious faiths are going to be allowed
in and not others. That that has been explicitly stated by these remarks, and you know, the problem with that is that that is illegal. Did that answer your question?
It did?
It did, And I kind of just wanted to just interject that the only entities definition of that matter about what is considered a really regions IRA reason being is because the IRS, through like legal tax code, has there's laws in place basically on how you're supposed to treat religious organizations, specifically in the United States, and according to the IRS, what constitutes as a religion is a religious
organization may be properly characterized as a church. The service considers whether the organization has the following characteristic a distinct legal existence, a recognized creed and form of worship, and a definite and distinct ecclesiastical tenet. And if you really look at the Satanic Temple, they have all of those things. So who's to say that they are not a religion? Now, whether if you agree with the existence the tenants the practices of religion is one thing, but that's very subject.
If there are specific definition that will constitute a religion organization a church person in order for this organization to exist and be able to live under that particular tax code is not up to you. It's not up to I, and it's not up to the same It's up to Dirra and those laws have our replaced. So Eric, I want to know from you what are the potential benefit and drawbacks of introducing chaplains from various religious backgrounds into
public schools. I know you talked about indoctrination and kids not necessarily having the wherewithal too even tell if they've been in doctor or I. So, do you happen to see a drawback from this? Do you see a benefit from this and why or why not?
I think I don't really see a benefit here. I think this is a way of sneaking religion into schools. The people that are when you do you get to be a volunteer. You don't get paid. So there are certain rules. If you look at the of the house built Housbald nine thirty one, it requires these volunteers to pass the background check. Students have to have written permission from their parents to engage with the chaplain. The school has to publish a list of the chaplains and the
religious affiliations to the school's website. And that's probably just to make sure that you're sending your kid to the right to the right Christian chaplain. And each district has to have a prescribed way that chaplains will be used to support for support services or programs. They have to define how chaplains are going to be used. But even giving all those you know on the services all that's fine. You know, there seems to be some kind of restrictions. But bs, this is just a way of getting of
getting religion in schools. This is just a way of getting people to preach Jesus, preach to Abraham of God at schools. If somebody wanted to send an Islamic preacher to the schools. Yeah, that's not probably not going to happen. This is definitely a Christian thing. And like I said earlier, what if people really want if they're trying to solve a problem, like, let's let's let's let's strong man their reason why we need kids need help in school? Right,
kids need chaplain, they need guidance. Well, then why don't you give them money so they can hire counselors. Right, that's that's solving the problem in a non religious, in a secular way. Let's solve the real problem. And why don't you fund schools. Why don't you give teachers, pay teachers better? Why don't you give teachers better budgets so they can have better lessons and have better equipment and reduce class sizes and all that stuff. This is on
the service. It seems like, oh, we're trying to help students, but they're not. Really, they're not doing anything that would actually help in any measure way students in any way. If they really wanted to help students, they would get licensed therapists, licensed counselors into schools that nobody would have any problem with kids engaging. And you wouldn't need parent signatures.
You know, Aarin, you almost talk like people who are making this stuff up have sense. But Kara, I want to know from you. The Satanic Temple itself actually claims that Florida law is allowing connect them. Right, you're saying like, if you're going to have like chaplains insides that you have to inclose all organizations that have to exist, them being one of them. So how should states balance the rights of religious minority with public sentiment and legal precedent regarding the establishment.
Well, I think there's a really easy way to do that, and that is to not introduce programs like these into schools. Just don't do it.
You said, what, right?
I mean, that's almost too simple. If you don't want to have to compete with other religious beliefs that contradict your own, don't try and introduce your own. Then you won't have a problem. You know, people can practice whatever they want to at home, people can practice whatever they
want to in public. But when you start introducing it as part of the public schools system or some other government run event, now you're sanctioning one set of beliefs that may be directly in conflict with someone else's And that's the reason for the problem. It's not just that, oh, I want to have the right to express my beliefs,
will you do? What you don't have the right to do is express your beliefs over and above and on top of everyone else's and condemn and forbid other people from having their other beliefs, which is what this kind of thing functionally does. So yeah, the really easy way to avoid that problem is to not do it again.
Like Aaron Kara, you act like the people who are introducing these things have sense. But TAYO want to know from you what states actually increasingly considering legislation to introduce religious teachings like the Bible. I believe that Ryan Walters wanted to make the Bible in Oklahoma's public heart of
the lesson plans like you have to do. And then also too, we have the case in Louisiana with the Ten Commandments, have been having to go into every public school class stating from the governor that if you want to talk about the law, you must first give credence to the lawgiver.
And don't forget Texas, Yes, and there curriculum that comes from the Bible based curriculum that they're paying school districts to roll out.
M you know, you can never not talk about Texas, especially on this shows. Don't mess with Texas. But you know, I'm curious to oh, you know, I know that you are in Latin America, but how should states actually balance the rights of religious minorities with public with the public and make sure that they're actually, you know, being more inclusive when it comes to you know, those who happen to have a religious background and those who don't have a religious backgage.
Yeah, I was going to say, you're asking the Latin guy to talk about the USA. I think that what you're asking is in general, how this could be sold, because this could help all countries all over the world. And actually there is a very simple solution. Get atheists to teach this, Get anyone who doesn't have a specific
religion teaching about all religions in the same way. And I think that, yeah, it would be great to have every single child learning about all religions in the same way that they should learn as myths that some people believe to be true. And you should get somebody who is clearly not going to say and this is the
only real religion. No, an atheist, we believe that all religions are fairy tale, so we're going to be fair to all of them, and we're going to say, yeah, I must believe that Allah is the only God that has no children. But Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God. So therefore that is a contradiction. But they are both based on the same God from the
Abrahamic religion. And then you can talk about Abraham and the stuff that they believe back then, about Babylon, Babylon and you know, all those myths that have been dragging until nowadays. And yeah, that's how you get people who know about religion and who realizes that a So, what my parents believe is not the only thing that people believe out there. There are other things other that makes more sense or even less sense, and that would be great for every teenager out there, according to me.
Yeah you know, I so, guys, I just did like a quick ask of my residential AI specifically, what in the world are the responsibilities of a school chap like, what specifically are they to do? Even though this is a voluntary position according to the law that we should sign into and sign by the santas.
Like what why why?
Like what are the wise behind the chaplains?
Right?
And according to my AI, it said that the school chaplain's responsibilities can vary depending on this, but they generally support the social, emotional, mental, and spiritual well built being of students and the school community. And one of the things that I wanted to read specifically the portions that it talked about for religious pastoral care and also student advice. So according to this, it says that chaplains can provide counseling and engaged students and structured programs to help with
self esteem, build confident, and develop skills in relationships. And they can also help students deal with issues like family conflict, anxiety, anger, bullying, grief, and law. And then another one I found very interesting when it comes to student advising, said that chaplains can meet with individual students and run small group programs on topics like resilience, friendship, and anger. Oh and one more
thing is said too it has other responsibilities. It says that chaplains may also coach land retreat and be visible safe adult during break time. So my question to all of and and and you know this this a quick response I'm going to start from Kara, than Tail, than Aaron. Does this really mean that a chaplain in this case, when we're looking at their responsibilities in their in the things that they are expect and their expectation, does this have to be a religious position?
Kara oh, I don't think it does. That description certainly doesn't have to be religious. Really, there wasn't much religious about that description. I think this is a way to smuggle religion in and create a situation where you can have chaplains who come from If all of the chaplains come from a very particular spiritual belief system, that may
seep into these other services that they're providing. But if, on the other hand, chaplains are coming from all different backgrounds and belief systems secular, Humanist, Satanist, a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, whatever else, then children could go to whicheverone suited them. But I think the main difference is that it's whether or not you create a situation where a certain spiritual worldview is sneaking in or not.
What about you, Tevy, what do you think?
Yeah, what you mentioned is a consulor that's not our religious position. If you have somebody there you actually want somebody who is a secure as possible, because trust me, there is nothing worse than telling somebody I have a lot of problems. H do you pray? No, I don't believe in any guy. Don't worry. We'll pray for you. That's the shittiest answer that you can get, and subtly is the most common one that you're going to get.
And if you have a chaplain that is going to be there for you to answer your your questions, you're not going to get real help. You're just going to get a religious propagandan. That's it.
I agree, and we're given the last word to Aaron.
What say you?
Yeah, there's a reason you can't get a license to be a therapist or council just just because you're Christian or Jewish or Islamic. They just don't do it. You have to go and get training. When you're reading off that list of you know what chaplains do? In my head, I'm thinking a Christian chaplain doing that.
I knows it.
You know Christianity. I grew up Christian and they teach you that you're a sinner. You know that you're by default that you're broken, and that you're awful and that you need Jesus, and they use you know, many people point out it's kind of abusive language, like you're only good if Jesus is in your life, and chaplains that's that's what they're if you let them in a school when they help people, that's what they're going to do
because that's what they know. They're going to teach you about Jesus and that you're awful and that you need Jesus.
And and that's not what we need. What we need is evidence based help for kids to help them manage their emotion, to manage their problems, manage their home lives if they need it, manage stress, all those things, and there are healthy ways of doing that, and that's why we need people that are licensed, that have been trained and understand how them human brain and emotions work that can help kids out