Any fans of this show. The nonprofits know by now that Oklahoma is no stranger to allowing Jesus into their classrooms, But are they also allowing satan in as well? Eli, You're here to break it down for us what's going on in Oklahoma? So Oklahoma House Bill fourteen twenty five is going to require public schools to excuse up to three class period absences per student per week to
attend class in religious or moral instructions. The classes will take place off campus, but they do not require a set curriculum or to be even taught by qualified teachers, but they count as elective credits. The Satanic Temple has established the Hellian Academy of Independent Learning or HAIL in other states where release time classes already exist, but Oklahoma would be the first state in which HALE can offer
academic credit for the courses that they teach. Since this article was first published, it has been updated twice to include that's state Governor Stitt has indeed signed the bill into law. So this is law in Oklahoma now. And it includes a message as well from state Superintendent Ryan Walters making it clear that he does not intend to allow Satanists to participate in the program. These articles by Hemet Meta at The Friendly Atheist last updated on June sixth, twenty twenty four.
Yeah, the wonderful Hemet Meta. I always love reading his stuff. Eli, why do we have to release kids from school? Can't these people teach their kids religion at home? You know? That is exactly what I thought when we talked about life Wise Academy around a month ago. And life Wise Academy has mentioned in this so this is based in Ohio, and they've been going in and bussing, taking a bus to the school to take kids off campus for this. The reason they have to do this, of course,
is because you can't teach about religion in publicly funded schools. I think that the parents are the ones that like, if you want to teach your kid's things that are not true, you have to do that, and you have to be able to justify why you believe that, because if you can't justify why you believe something to your child, then you can't justify it to yourself either, and you shouldn't even be believing it. I don't understand why
they need it to be taught in school so badly. I don't know why they can't, like it's when I was a kid, it was just like I went to church as a kid once a Sunday. Sometimes Sunday nights we'd do like the King's Kids musical thing and we would just go like whatever. But it was just once a week, and there was never this whole idea of like we I didn't even think about it in school, Like it was never something that we thought about having taught at school. I always it was
just separate. I never. I don't see why this push to get Jesus into the schools as has taken such an increase in intensity lately. Yeah, but Sidney, it's only three classes a week. I mean, what is the big deal. The big deal is that Oklahoma has ranked forty ninth out of fifty in education and they can't afford to miss any school no matter what it's for. That's it. That's the whole thing is Like I will listen to you talk about the benefits of skipping school to learn whatever else you want.
When you bare Minimum Bare Minimum aren't in the bottom ten. When you're like, if you if you make it to number thirty out of fifty in terms of educational quality content, then we can talk about skipping school to learn other stuff. And also I looked into it and I could not find a single writing program at any university that did not offer fiction. So they've got
a chance to learn that anyway in the future. It's fine. They don't need to do it in high school when they're already in the bottom two. It's like, look it up. Anybody who's offended by that, probably from Oklahoma. Look it up. Like you know, like my mom would always say things when I was a kid, like, hey, get like, we can't even talk about this until you get this done. You know, like, we can't even talk about what you're gonna do then until you got
you get the first step score. You know what. I'll make it easier be in the top forty seven, and then we can talk about what you're allowed to skip school for. But until then, I don't want to hear it. Yeah, I don't know if they're going to get that far. If we consider the policies that the state superintendent of public educator or what's his title, it's like the superintendent of public Education, I think for Oklahoma, Ryan Walters. In any case, if we keep seeing the policies that he
is supporting and trying to drive home. They're probably going to stay where they're at, right. I think the problem is I think the problem is that Oklahoma didn't ban the Bluest Eye from their library, and it was all just downhill from there. Yeah. Yeah, So when it comes to book banning, Oklahoma is no stranger to that. But you know, when it comes to being unconstitutional, well, they're also no stranger. And Ryan Walter says
eli that there's going to be no Satanists. And let's not forget that the Satanists do want an equal part of this to be constitutional, of course, but Ryan Walter says, there will be no Satanists in this program. As the state superintendent of education, that's it. Does he have any authority and can he get his way? I mean, he absolutely has authority. I hope that he doesn't get his way because I think it would be well,
does he have the authority to prevent I don't know that he does. I think it would be unconstitutional for him to prevent the Satanic Temple from participating because I think it's blatant discrimination of a protected status, and as an elected official, he just is not allowed to do that. That is what the First
Amendment is intended for directly. It seems like he doesn't understand the position that he holds or like what he's responsible for the video, Like his his statement to the Satanists, it was it just seemed kind of like, I don't know what it was. Like, I know, you guys like Fladay and say that, yeah it was. It was really performative. Yeah, but it just like really kind of it was. It was an attack sort of.
It wasn't just like, hey, like this is the case, Like I don't think the Satanism is a religion, so I'm not going to allow that. It was like Sudanism is not a religion. You know, you're you're always gonna lie and say that it is. But I'm like, you're, like you hold office man like that. It seems like just an unbecoming way to kind of conduct himself. And it's unconstitutional as well, So it just looks bad all around on Yeah, and you know what's funny to me,
satan belongs to the Christians. I mean, that's their guy. That's their guy. They should recognize that this is part of the dogma. This is very much part of the religion, right, It's almost centered on the religion if you think about it. I mean, a major premise is that we're fighting against Satan, right, so how could this not be religious at its core? But it just goes to show his ignorance because you know, Satanism is actually a very humanist organization, right, and they actually do a
lot of good. I remember something like this taking place in oh Man, It's been a while, but I think it was like Minnesota where we talked about this about a year ago on the nonprofits. But you know, there was a school that wanted to do a similar or an act a similar policy like this, so or excuse me, it was like a town council and somebody waited online to you know, vote in favor of it and say thank you. And he gave a speech, thank you for allowing me to bring
my Satan's Little Devils after school program into the public school. And that was it. He was brilliantly created it after school program called Satan's Little Devils. Anyway, I digress a little bit, but it's really fun when people can People could come up with Sydney, go ahead. You had a comment,
So listen, you guys are thinking about this all the wrong way. This man is a genius, and I'm going to tell you why, because even even though he's in leadership in Oklahoma, I imagine he still knows his job. And so state state laws super cannot override national laws. So, for example, if you are given a right based on the Constitution, no matter what laws that state comes up with, it can't. It cannot negate your constitutional rights. So this man knows that he knows that there are certain things
he can't do and are not allowed and are unconstitutional. But what he can do is he can secure his reelection by making sure everyone knows he ain't gonna have no Satanist in his school. So when the polls come around, whether or not the Satanists ever show up. But I don't think they're going to show up. I think Satanists do not care about this man's town. But when the next election comes up and people are trying to figure out who they're
going to vote for, you know who they're going to vote for. That man who stood up and said out loud in today's America that he does not support Satanism. He stood in a time when the liberals want everyone to worship satan and he said that he wasn't going to allow the devil in his school, and he's gonna win. Yeah, And this speaks to religion's relationship with
education, if you will. I mean, this is a lot of material to miss out on let's face it, taking kids out of school for three different classes a week to learn learn what basically a destructive and ancient mythology instead of actually earning their education. And I think it would actually serve him well to keep people stupid, you know, so that they do they do vote for him, and of course that that's kind of a grand scale kind of
thing. But you know, Eli, what does it say about religion's relationship to education when people are okay with just not championing education and instead sticking their kids in church and and and you know, covering them with religion. I fuel, well, they they don't think that they are They don't think that
putting their kids in churches is contrary to education. They think that spiritual and religious education is a part of the the whole you know, education experience, and that if you're you're not learning scripture and you're not learning you know, Jesus, then you're not really learning what's true. The idea that I don't believe I accept that that religion prevents scientific progress or prevents academic progress progress in
general. I've said a number of times that like any good thing we get from religion, we can get from a secular source, and like do it just as well or better and the and that includes education. Absolutely, the things that there are a good reason to believe are true are the things we should be learning during the school day. Those are the things we want to
teach our society. And it comes to personal beliefs about metaphysical or origins of the universe that don't fit with with data that we have collected over centuries, like those are things that you just don't teach to people as if they are true, because they probably aren't. And that's the religion's mo so to speak, is just to stick to this one thing, regardless of the information they get that contradicts it, like, Nope, this is what's true. You
are lying, you're wrong, your conspiracy, you'ar them. It's the idea is to keep people in there, like you've said, and as long as they continue to believe that, as long as they continue to believe the dogma, then you can control them. Well, Sidney, you brought up the election aspect of this, and you know, when it comes to education, wouldn't Walters be better off saying, hey, look, I took us from forty nine to forty six or forty nine to thirty nine, and isn't this
counterproductive? I mean, what are your thoughts on that? So I think one he says I'm not going to allow Satanists in school, and everybody goes, yeah, that's right, and then it gets knocked down by the Supreme Court and he can say, uugh, I did my best, you guys, but you know, the the d words in office blocked everything that I tried, and everybody's going to go you know who else tried really hard to save everyone and was persecuted Jesus right, So you're doing the It's okay,
we forgive you. You tried, but the government blocked you, big bad government. So they're like, he doesn't have to do anything. He just has to say this is what we're doing. And also, I do think it's counterproductive. I think it's incredibly counterproductive. I think it will be nothing but harmful. I also think we'll see that the people who choose to take the opportunity to leave class we're going to see a pattern in the classes they
choose to leave. And I wouldn't be surprised if you look into this deeper, if you spend like a day deep diving into this. This probably actually started because there was a lot of arguments between parents in terms of what their
kids were learning during science class, what they were learning during history. And the only way that they could pacify these parents is by being like, here's a legal way that you can pull your kid out of US history, and you can pull your kid out of science, and they're still learning because they're reading about history, but it's biblical history, and so in my life, yeah, yeah exactly, and so yes, do I think it's detrimental, Yes, we'll do only bad things. Yes. Is it doing exactly he
wants it to do? Yes, Yes it is. Yes, is all across the board. And the only people that will be negatively impacted by this are the students. Eli. There are some I'm gonna put this in air quotes secular safeguards, right they in the school or the state champions this idea that well, we're going to keep it secular because we have these safeguards in place. Do you want to talk about that at all. Yeah, so they Some of the stipulations of the bill include that, like, the school
cannot fund this in any way. It all has to be funded externally. It must be taught by an outside organization that's leading to classes. The parents must opt into the program, so it's not a default. Your kid is going to go unless you tell us no. And there are certain classes that they can't skip. And I went and I double checked it when you were talking about like this, like which classes they were looking at, because the
only ones mentioned in the article are English in math. I haven't looked any further into it, but I'm curious to see if science science classes are classes that are eligible to be skipped for the purpose of attending this this off campus class. I really want to figure that out, but I'll have to do another time. Are I would imagine. So, so, these are things I think definitely make it I put it as more constitutional before, but I don't know if that's like, I don't know if that's not your way to
describe it. I think things that definitely make it sit a little better with me, Like it would be worse if those things weren't in place. But I don't think that necessarily helps in any way. It's still very clearly like a poorly disguised attempt to like push Christian nationalism in Oklahoma. And I mean, yeah, I don't know if I have much more to expand on that. I just it. I those safeguards I think are just for show. I think it's like just to it's a way, it's a way to justify
or or to fight back and say no, this is not unconstitutional. And I think we're in a bit of a dichotomy here, or or there's an ambiguity to why this is so bad. Right. There's there's the education portion, which, by the way, I just have to say English math taking away a children, a child's ability to read and to handle their finances. That's going to keep them dependent on the state and dependent on you know, the church for what it's worth. But then we've also got this other aspect
of constitutionality. And you know what is really the goal here? I mean, what are we really upset about? If you will, would we be happier if other religions, Satanist groups were able to take part equally? I mean, will this will this make us go yeah, okay, it's constitutional? Or would it still be just as bad because we're taking kids out of school city. What do you think? So if let's just say Oklahoma tomorrow was like, you know what, we're going to open this to Muslims,
We're going to open this to people who are Jewish. Great. I would love to see the percentage of the population that is impacted by either of those
belief systems, right. Just like it's easy to claim that you're political stance is something that you know eventually is going to get blocked by higher powers than you and you're like, oh no, it's also easy to be welcoming and inclusive in an area where you don't have to worry about this people actually showing up, Like I would love to know how many Satanists actually live in Oklahoma?
Right. There are certain people, certain people in this country who I think their number one way of thinking and behaving is based on problems they've invented in their mind and are now defending against problems that they invented in their brain. Like what if Satanist show up? What if a bunch of people who are Muslim show up? Okay, maybe cross that bridge when you come to it. Maybe, But in the same way that it's useless for him to
say no Satanists allowed, because you just can't do that. It's also useless too, and it's performative, and it's a tactic to include people that you know so you won't actually have show up to stuff. And it's easy to say, fine, will allow everybody when you know the only people that'll show up are Christians and non Christians, and both of those can be true.
So if somebody who was non Christian came out, and maybe they live in like southern Louisiana and they said, you know what, I'm going to make an afterschool atheist program, statistically, I feel like that's performative and it wouldn't actually be doing anything. But they're pandering toward an audience that's going to go, wow, good for you, even though nobody shows up. And you know something, you raise an interesting point because the group, the Satanist group
that actually showed interest in this is based out of Massachusetts. I mean exactly. They're all the way up in the northeast. Right. There's nobody in Oklahoma that is subscribing to a Satanist theory. And you know, we covered this on the or I shouldn't say Satanist theory, Satanist practices, if you
will. But we covered a similar issue on the nonprofits a couple of weeks ago when we talked about Ron DeSantis, the governor of Flowari, who invented this this conspiracy, the conspiracy about how Democrats are planning on world domination and they're going to achieve that by feeding people artificial beef. What well, go figure that the largest beef producing population in the country is in Florida, right, so we've got to create Yeah, we've got to create a boogeyman.
So so you know, making these comparisons, you know, I want to draw upon the point that Eli made in his notes preparing for tonight's show. You made a comparison to the group life wise, and I was I wanted to know if you could expand on that. Yeah, So, like I mean earlier, they are based out of I think Greenville, Ohio. I could be wrong. They're in Ohio and they're doing the same thing already.
Basically, they take they have this really rad like big red school bus that they take to the school and like all the kids that are going to go, they get these red shirts and they put on they go to the to some church or somewhere off campus for a free period, like a library period or something, and they apparently are teaching like over thirty five thousand students across
the country and like fifty I think fifty three school districts. They go and they take these kids at a place where they're learning like real true things and teach them about like magic and how to hate things the right way. And that is where I think, like you asked a little bit earlier, like does you know including Satanists or including all religions make it, you know, more constitutional? Sure? Does it make me happier about it? No?
Because I still don't like religion. I still don't think religion should be taught to kids, especially in school. And that's sort of just where I land on it. And I think Greenville really or sorry, life wise really sort of as far as I can tell, it seems like they sort of opened the door ands and when they started getting so successful, now it's it's starting to take root in other places. Yeah, yeah, thank you for that comparison, Sydney. I'm going to give you the closing remarks and we will
head out. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I don't think any religion should be taught in school, and I don't think Oklahoma can afford to pull kids out of school right now. Like again, if they like, if they prove to me in the next four years that they can start passing tests with higher grades, that their literacy levels will improve at this and that and the other, that it means so much to them that they're willing to pull
their grades up by the bootstraps and change their educational stance. Then we can talk about making changes, which I still don't think should involve any religion whatsoever. But this idea that the the state that is struggling second to last in education in this country is like, you know what'll help less school? Yeah, religion may very well have a place in school, but it's certainly not in place of English, math or any other category. In fact, it
should be taught alongside the other mythologies. I read the book I read. I read the work of Odysseus the Iliad in eighth grade, and you know that would be a perfect place to introduce there, Yeah, mythological thinking