Is it a Crime? - podcast episode cover

Is it a Crime?

Nov 16, 202417 minSeason 23Ep. 4503
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Episode description

A Woman Died After Being Told It Would Be a “Crime” to Intervene in Her Miscarriage at a Texas Hospital

ProPublica, By Cassandra Jaramillo and Kavitha Surana, on Oct 30, 2024

https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1Y0lGG-_K1AGP4xUGx4t80AgCOcvOFoRx1J59MSnGzO-_PCnysmJjk0xs_aem_LI_D0xI9zQdkz2MDkku8PQ 


In a moving discussion, the panel delves into the tragic death of a young mother in Houston, Texas, who succumbed to sepsis after delayed miscarriage care due to strict abortion laws. This story, detailed by ProPublica, highlights the devastating consequences of restrictive policies that prevent doctors from intervening until fetal viability has ceased, leaving patients vulnerable to severe health risks. Emotions run high as panelists discuss the disregard for women's health by lawmakers who will never face these consequences themselves. They critique the dangerous power of ideological beliefs over essential healthcare, which places doctors in legally compromising positions and deprives women of necessary, life-saving treatment.

Panelists argue that such laws disproportionately harm marginalized communities, particularly people of color and those in low-income areas who lack access to comprehensive healthcare. Additionally, they highlight the broader irony that the "pro-life" stance often disregards the health and autonomy of individuals once they are born. The panel underscores the troubling intersection of religious dogma with law, where certain groups impose their beliefs in ways that dangerously affect others' lives. This reality, they note, strips away personal and medical autonomy, often in situations where the pregnancy was desired.

The discussion concludes with a condemnation of laws that criminalize doctors for prioritizing patient care and a call for empathy and change, emphasizing that real medical knowledge and humanity should guide healthcare decisions—not outdated ideologies.

The Non-Prophets, Episode 23.45.3 featuring Phoebe Rose, AJ, Cynthia and Jonathan Roudabush


Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-non-prophets--3254964/support.

Transcript

Speaker 1

Death becomes her not just the television show or the movie, but the reality of abortion law in the United States.

Speaker 2

AJ Today, we're diving into a heartbreaking and complex story that is very close to home here in Houston, Texas. It's about a young mother who died from sepsis after her miscarrious care was delayed. Joselle Barnicai's doctors couldn't intervene until her videos no longer had a heartbeat due to

Texas strict abortion laws. This left her vulnerable to a fatal infection, and this case is a start example of how the laws intended to prevent abortion can also create deadly barriers to essential medical care, putting doctors in impossible situations and ultimately costing lives. Republic investigated other cases where restrictions have left doctors hesitant to act in emergency situations

because they you know, they're a phrase of persecution. This story is from Pro Publica by Cassandra Jamarolo and Cavite Serena on October thirtyth twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1

As an Irish woman, as a trans woman, as a woman, as a human being, and as somebody with humanity, this is close to my heart. Nothing says absolute assholders than people who make decisions that will never affect them. The men and yes men who impose these restrictions will never experience the consequences of these decisions. The men will never die in a hospital bed from a bacterial infection leading to sepsis because they couldn't get the healthcare they require.

Men will never scream in agony and beg a doctor to save their life because the doctor is scared that the doctor will be prosecuted if they save life. And the men who pass this go magically quiet when the consequences are thrown in their faces. And it is the women and other pregnant people who suffer because men who can't give up control decide beyond a reasonable doubt that their ego and their demand to impose upon others their point of view trumps somebody's life. As an Irish woman,

I can tell you this. My country was disgusted and changed its constitution. Somebody who lives in America, I saw a country get disgusted and re elect the people who put it in place.

Speaker 3

You know, I don't really have any words for this type of travesy and this type of brutal brutality towards a half fifty one percent of your population or fifty two percent. I just have no words for it. And I don't you know, I am one of those people who do not have a uterus, therefore not affect me directly, except for the fact that I have a sister, and I have nieces and grand nieces that will be affected

by this. You can very well be affected this, and I had a mother, and that's just it's just not something that men need to put their little dirty fingers in. Let people make health care decisions with their licensed physician and keep your keep your snotty hands out of it. It's none of your damn business. Mind your own freaking business. They made this. This issue was a made up issue, used as a political wedge. They got people all excited

about it by a misreading of their Holy Book. The misreading was that they had it right a long time ago, because in their Holy Book it says life doesn't really start until the first inspiration of breath at birth. But they took that and they've twisted pretzeled themselves around fund all sorts of passages in the Bible and other books to try and make it so that it starts at conception,

which is ridiculous. Conceived ova that have been fertilized eggs only lodge in the uterus approximately thirty percent of the time.

So if that's an actual human life that's being flushed out with the monthly menstrual cycle, then aren't they really murdering a lot of babies every month without even knowing it because they don't even know they're pregnant and the fertilized egg just passes right out, never even lodges in the uterine wall, or it lodges in the fallopian tubes, which is fatal if it's allowed to come to term.

Why do we mess with things we know nothing about for some stupid emotional reason that because some stupid two thousand year old freaking mythology has been perverted into freaking making people die unnecessarily.

Speaker 2

Ultimately, the yeah, ultimately they have to put this one holy book above, don't. I don't know what the contexts millions of science books that talk about all of these topics related to you know, pregnancy, to abortion, to reproduction, to biological sex, all of the all of these books by experts, people who deeply understand the topic. No, no, forget out of them, just burn them out. Just the Bible is the one, the one that has the true.

Speaker 1

Oh yes, but which version of the Bible?

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, there's one hundred English.

Speaker 1

New version, the original Aramaic version, the Greek version, version.

Speaker 3

Of the World version, there's a New World Bible.

Speaker 2

There's actually over four hundred just English versions, English alone.

Speaker 1

So we have these situation where we have a requirement for some reason that healthcare is denied simply because how is that acceptable in this dayana?

Speaker 2

It's hard for me to grasp because healthcare should be just a basic, like one of the most basic human rights that anyone can ask for, Like it literally keeps you alive, right, Like the type of health that you have, it's going to determine whether you're going to live a long life or not. So how is that not basic human right? And reading this story was just absolutely devastating for me. As I mentioned, this one is really close to home. It's happened right here in Houston where I live.

And jose Ellie went to the HCA Houston Healthcare or Northwest, which is a hospital that I have been to several times. So I am just frightened to think that this could ever happen to me.

Speaker 1

Do you on the panel here view these losses as racist?

Speaker 3

Yes, yes, and misogynistic as well. You know that's obvious. But they're they're racist.

Speaker 1

Why racist? Why do you consider them racist?

Speaker 3

Because the overwhelming amount of people who end up getting caught up in this are people of color who don't have access like privileged people to medical care and certain medical care, and don't have the ability to travel to to take care of things like this. You know, I don't think that people are aware. I think they're deliberately unaware of of the privileges that they have as if they are, if they're like me, right, extremely white.

Speaker 1

So the other thing to bear in mind here is that obgu I n care in areas with high levels of abortion restrictions are non existent. Idaho is an g way in desert and it has one of the most restrictive abortion care statutes in America. North Dakota is similar, Texas is similar, Florida is on its way to being

very similar. And to prosecute a doctor for saving the life of a patient is no different than prosecuting Samuel Mudd for setting John Wilkes's booth or Legg he was a doctor and he treated the patient in front of him. And no doctor, no matter who they are, ever should have to decide between their own freedom and their medical license and the best consist to their patient. How is that where we have got to?

Speaker 2

Agent? I don't know how we even got here, but to me, it seems like Texas, you know, states like Texas as you mentioned also Florida, that they expect every woman to have, you know, never make a mistake or you know, for contraception to never fail, and for every pregnancy to go without complication, for every woman to deliver, hug the baby to a healthy mom. And this is completely unrealistic. These are unrealistic expectations. I have several health

this is that would put my life at risk. Okay, if I got pregnant, I have one child that I kind of risk my life a little bit to have, and so I do my best to prevent the pregnancy. But no contraception is one hundred percent fail proof, and if I was to get pregnant by accident, it seems that I will have no choice but to risk my own death. So I also wonder, like, how did we even get here to this point where my body autonomy is taken away, like I no longer have control over

my body like it is. Their control is not even my doctor, not even under my doctor's control. It's just somebody in a way out there in the white house somewhere. You know, it's absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 3

And not to mention that you probably won't have conscious uptives here for a long either.

Speaker 1

Right Connecticut, that's looking like it's on the trucking block. But the thing to bear in mind when it comes toward of this is that what purpose does it actually serve here? What is the purpose of these bans, these restrictions and the medical myth that comes with it, the abortions cause all these dangers in this and that and the other. It's all a lot of bollocks, an absolute load of.

Speaker 3

Blocks, because it's driven by a religion, not by actual fact or medical uh or medical knowledge. It's driven by somebody's religious false religious beliefs that even their own book doesn't say that. And you know, it's like it's really sad, you know that. Yeah, Okay, I can see where you know, religions want to have as many butts in the pews as possible, considering that they're bleeding them. Every every year there's less and less parishioners, which means they're their gravy

train is drying up. To quote somebody I know, somebody I know's father actually, I think, said that the grazy train to an easy life, right, So that's yeah, yeah, it's so sad, But it's not sad. It's disgusting that we are even at this place that they can't see that saving the life of the mother isn't even biologically saving the life of the child over the mother is

not biologically maintainable. If you want that mother to have more kids, if the child's lost, she can still have children, if she has medical care, and so, you know, losing or miscarrying a child, it's not her fault. But if she can save the mechanism by which she can get pregnant, and she wants to get pregnant, a lot of these women, like the woman we're talking about in this article, wanted that child desperately, that child. It was an intentional pregnancy.

Speaker 1

It seems it's like, why.

Speaker 3

The hell would you would you hurt her on that or kill.

Speaker 1

On this show, we have discussed the number of very bizarre issues when it comes to this. For example, we discussed the banning of IDF effectively in Alabama, which was weird because it was more children. And we're now discussing banning of abortions because you're going to I just don't understand it. Help me out, AJ.

Speaker 2

The irony here for me is that all of these people pushing for abortion bands are pro life, okay, but they only care about their life when it's inside somebody else. As soon as that life comes out, like oh forget it. Yeah, women don't matter, children don't matter, transgender people don't matter.

It's all about defeatos okay. And here in tech says, we have what's called the Heartbeat Bill, and it prevents doctors from ending the heartbeat of a fetus, regardless of the risk be imposed to the mother or whether the miscarriage is on their way, even if they even if it was the case of a wanted pregnancy, as John pointed out in this case that we were watting in this article, that was a oneted pregnancy, like she was

not requesting an abortion. And there is no distinction in all of these legislations between abortion, miscarrious or termination due to the health risk to the mother. It's just absolutely incredibly ridiculous. Okay, because doctors are not allowed to people.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and we know who these people are. And you know, the people who pass these kinds of laws should be subject to a accessory to murder charges whenever a woman dies for this.

Speaker 1

So have I overplayed their hand these people because we keep seeing our initiative are for ballot initiative that said abortion is fine, Kansas, Arizona, Michigan, all over America, people going abortions fine. How is it that we got to the position where as public thirty one percent of people are dictating to the sixty nine percent of people. How how did we allow this to occur?

Speaker 3

Because people became complacent and the other people became allowed and started protesting and started shooting doctors who were running abortion clinics, they called them. They're really just things like plant.

Speaker 1

Out of it.

Speaker 3

Yeah. And that's just the thing, is that a minority, very vocal and emotional group who were crying murder whenever an embryo is you know, frozen for somebody to have a baby later. Guys, I think you're kind of like being a little irrational here.

Speaker 1

You know, here's the iron of doctor Tiller. He was murdered in his own church. It just doesn't make any sense to me, doesn't make any sense to people.

Speaker 3

Are they're they're not after they're not after logical reasons. This is all an emotional issue for them, and it shouldn't be because it's none of their damn business what happens with other people's bodies.

Speaker 1

So where does this end? Where does this end?

Speaker 2

I don't know. I mean, because you even have all of these elected leaderships that are not even keeping quiet about it. Okay, if anything is the opposite, especially here in Texas, many of our elected officials have been really out spoken about their stance and abortion. You have the famous tech crews happily advocated for the fall of Robbie Wade, and he said that pregnancy is not a life threadning illness. So I guess you don't deserve any type of medical

occur if it's not an emergency. Greg Abbott, or governor, said earlier this year he promised that they won't protect the life of every child with a heartbeat, and they did. Every child will harp it like they call a viidos a child human already, and the Attorney General, Kem Paxton, he's been fighting abortions. You know, ever since he's been in office, and the latest thing that he wanted to

do is access to out of state medical records. So he wants to go outside of Yea exactly like Goldfish for all these medical records of women that travel to get abortion care. He wants to prosecute people who drive someone outside of the state, and prosecute anyone that uses a highway, a state highway to go and get an abortion. Is absolutely insane.

Speaker 1

So I think we have found the end point of all of this.

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