In a revelation that's part belief, part bias, and a dash of unexpected irony. New research peaks behind the curtain of Christian nationalism and its curious relationship with the attitudes toward atheists in the United States. While atheists face persistent prejudice, the study uncovers a surprising twist. Black Americans in states steeped in Christian
nationalism appear less prejudice against atheists than their white counterpart. Black Americans are giving Christian or Black Americans in Christian nationalist states are giving prejudice the side eye. The study unravels a nuanced dance between identity defiance and unintended alliances and an era
of growing division. The results not only illuminate the intricate dynamics of belief systems, but also raise broader questions that reach beyond the realm of eight This story is from siposts by Eric W. Dollan on December third, twenty twenty three. Phoebe, I'm excited to hear what you have to say on this, I mean, the psychology of Christian nationalism and their distrust of atheist othertimes given now we've got actual, actual data on this I mean, that's quite impressive.
But it is fascinating that African Americans in high Christian nationalist areas, according to the article, did not share the same mess as their Caucasian which I found to be quite an interesting thing. Technical yeah, yeah, you know, because it just doesn't quite mesh doesn't quite doesn't quite mesh doesn't quite meld with what you would expect you would expect. As Christian nationalism increases, a broad swathe across the board would say, hang on a minute, we distrust
atheism. It's like, for example, in high Muslim majority countries, you would expect a greater level of trust or other Muslims. You wouldn't expect it to be well, okay, well Muslims from this area actually trust other Muslims less. It's not something you'd actually expect to see. But having the side of big paper to actually back this up with actually really interesting because it doesn't really surprise me. Because what it does show is that in these areas people
don't all voters one mind. There's no hive mind here, which is actually really lovely to see. And when you actually break it down, to start breaking this down by race and to go well, hang on, a minute, this race of this race don't all speak as one. And I've now got you know, data on that, and that's actually quite nice to actually
confirm that people actually do have individuality and these things. But when you start digging into this, you would expect Christian nationalists, the crystal fascists of this world to absolutely hate the four of us on this screen and everything that we stand for, because we are the unsavable people. Myself in particular because I'm, according to them, I'm an aposta because I've left a religion left too, and how old am I? God, I'm the worst of the world.
But to actually see other people going, oh well, it's not the person actually really nice to see. I mean, I'm not, you know, a heteronormative individual. A lot of the people aren't particularly heteronormative. When it unfortunately comes to the African American community. There are high rates of single mothers, high rates of lone parents, high rates of absolute fathers, and in white communities that much lower. And I think that that may have something
to do with as well. Which is something to bear in mind is that whilst Christian nationalism is something that distrusts atheism, it also distrusts lack of heteronormative conformity. So the two point four children, nuclear family, mother, father, children, going to school, academically, extracurricular activities, dog house with two rooms upstairs, two rooms downstairs, front garden, backgarden, et cetera.
It's not something you're going to find in a lot of my local African American communities ran because they've got high poverty, right, and high poverty rates don't generally tend to lead to the dog, the car, the house, et cetera. And I think that looking at this from an economic lens as well is quite interesting because it shows that Christian nationalism is just like society itself. It is diverging, and it is produced against itself in these matters.
So, Infidel, what shall take? Well? First, I hope that everyone has their official copy of the Great Atheist Mass planned close, because I was going to reach out and talk about it. You know, I'd hate to be discriminated against the group that's not prepared for Okay, okay, oh wait, I thought it was the recipe book. I forgot. I wasn't supposed to talk about that in public. I'm so so so sorry, Scott, but you know, seriously. You know, I hate to call us
a religious group. We're not a religious group. I mean, we're the lack of religious group, but we are the one of the fastest growing. And I understand why the Christian nationalists are so anti And it's not just the fact that we disagree. Are we stand for over something different than what they
believe. It also goes down to what they're told time and again you sit and listening to what you know, people standing behind a piece of wood or screaming at their people and telling them about people like us and people that are not like them, whatever them is. And that's always a new term, depending depending on who's saying it. But you know, this negativity makes sense,
and you mentioned the common ground. You know, I think that what we're seeing is the convergence of whites becoming a plurality and no longer a majority in this country, along with Christianity lose the control, and these people are feeling concern and anger from both sides. And yes, they're taking it out on other people, and it's out of fear. It's out of fear changed and something different. They're getting older. Church population continues to decline, so
their choices are as they yell louder or chain. You know, we are seeing even in like more moderate and I hate to say moderate with them, but you know the Pope saying, well, you know, maybe gay people are okay if we squint and do this and we can pretend this is okay. They can do that, but the Christian Nationalists, they're trying to hold a line. And that line that they're trying to hold is inevitably going to move, and that that's the good part. You know. Right now they're
whining to anyone who's willing to listen. You know, perhaps we should. You know, last Pride month they even lost cracker Barrel and the woke. So you know, for me personally, they can have cracker Barrel back. You know, I got a cracker barrel. I'm sorry, Phoebe. I do apologize, but I'm willing to sacrifice it for the team. And because the truth is, uh, they're just getting louder and they're getting smaller. And for that, I say, they they're going to feel the way they
feel and they're going to become less relevant as that continue. Scott, where are you at? You know, I have to right, yeah, yep, that's that's next on the agenda here. Now, I just need to say, as the math teacher on the panel here, it just warms my heart that we're getting so much interpretation and so much interest, and and and so many different takes on what is basically just a big math problem. Right, they gathered all of this data, they came to all these conclusions.
It was really cool the way that they did it. So excuse me for geeking out for a little bit. That's a compliment in my house, NERD. But so they also gathered all this different demographic data with their sample, and so that allowed them to make all these you know, very nuanced comparisons.
And we've talked about some of these already, the first one, of course, being that increased Christian nationalism indicated increased prejudice against atheists on a personal level, but not at a state level, okay, And so so what that would imply is that, you know, there's different aspects to a person's identity. Some people might consider their religion part of their identity. Some people might consider their nation as part of their identity. You know, there's all
these different things that we can attach to our identity. And so since there's a difference in these two measurements. What we're what they're saying is that these Christian nationalists consider themselves more Christian than national right and so and so it's it's more of a personal, small community kind of of kind of impetus to to toe of this particular line and to hold this line. It's not so much at a larger scale like at a state level. And so, you know,
a person's religion is a lot more reflective of that person. It's derived from their like I said, their immediate person, their personality, their identity, and so on. The author if I read through geeking out right, I read through the actual report and so in the discussion area, they were talking about their own perceived flaws in the in the study and so, which is always a good sign if you see a research or criticizing their own results.
Uh, that that's kind of a sign of integrity and authenticity. They went on to add they wanted to add a county level comparisons as well, and they thought that that might shed a little light on that discrepancy between the
individual levels and at the at the state level. The second interesting find that they are interesting thing that they found, and we've talked about this already as well, is that in the states where UH Christian nationalism was a little higher on the scale, black individuals were actually less likely to show president pre prejudice against atheists. And and of course that shouldn't be surprising. I mean,
why would black Americans have any mistrust for you know, for authority. I mean, you know, crazy, right, you know, they're they're quite familiar with the business end of bigotry, right right, bigotry duck, Yeah, and so you know, so I can't imagine why that would be an issue. But but there's actually a hidden layer in there, if you if
you peel away those layers. We said before that states with with higher Christian nationalism went along with increased UH prejudice against atheists, but it was not at
the state level, but at this but there was that racial aspect. And so if states with high and I'm getting a little too complicated here, but states that have higher levels of Christian nationalism, if the black residents of that state actually we're lower on the prejudice scale, that means that the white community must have been higher, and that that discrepancy kind of masked the difference. And so white individuals that were in states that at higher you know, I'm
just going to stop. I think I'm out mathed everybody, and so math fatigue, right, So I just wanted to point out those equation exactly exactly. But I just I thought the study was a gold mine. I thought they had a large, diverse sample, they had interesting and interlinked results, and they had a few curveballs thrown in there. You know what more could I ask? Ask Eli? What's your take on that? Yeah, So as the undergraduate science student on the panel, I'm happy to nerd out with
you. I just don't have the expertise. Welcome, Welcome, we have a big tent. We have a big tent. So I also I was excited that I was like, oh, I have access to like scholarly libraries through my school. So I pulled up the study as well, and I wanted to look at it, and I found very interesting, speaking specifically about the summary, the comparative summary of the variable, I'm sure you looked at as well. It's interesting that it is strictly in evangelical Christians where this prejudice
against atheists is so high. If you look at Jewish or Muslim participant in the survey. There and I don't have it in front of me now, but there they're prejudice. Their score of prejudice against atheists was point zero three point zero eight, where with the Evangelical Christians it was in the thirties, you know, on the left side of the or the decimals. So that was a really interesting at first. I really thought when I read the title
of the article, I thought this was kind of a no brainer. Christian nationalists would advocate for a Christian theocracy and an atheist would inherently oppose that idea. There maybe some one off, you know, circumstances, but I think by and large, most people who don't believe in a god and the Christian God would be the enemy of Aquin Nash. So that was what I first
thought was a no brainer. But I did find it interesting. Of course, like we've all said already, that black America seem to show less prejudice, and I, of course I'm speaking about an experience that I don't have, But what I've learned from people of color that are sharing their experiences me is that they tend to, at least those that I've spoke, tend to pay attention to how people treat them individual not how groups treat them, but
how individual them and make their judgment of that first character or their their social proximity to that person based on how the individual treats them, because they are so used seeing that prejudice that perhaps like maybe minor sometimes perhaps microaggressions, or or sometimes true art and horrible like discrimination and racism, and they're so used
to seeing that. And I think that anybody with who is capable of empathy is going to who experiences something horrible all the time, is not going to want others to experience that as well, and would therefore be more trusting of And I think you'll see that most of us in the atheist community. Again, there are one off examples, but by and large most that I've spoke with that i'm aware of, that I see on you know, shows like this, are very open, very accepting towards all lifestyles, all types of
people. Just if you're a kind person, I will be kind to you. It doesn't matter how you live your life, as long as you're harm to others. And so I think that's where sort of these particular Black Christian nationalists and the atheists that I am familiar with, I think that's what they have in common and why they they don't why there's not quite that prejudice those
that were pulled by the service. That's great, that's great, and that's interesting what you were what you were just talking about, because it implies that what I was saying before about how their personal identity, their religious identity, their local their small community identity kind of trumps their their national commitment. But but what you're saying is maybe personal experience can trump that that that small group identities. So that's so that's a good thing. That's a good thing.
As you know, we know that, you know, as people get to know people in these out groups, they become less outgroup. Right And I'm sorry, go ahead, Nope, So I believe professor nee is how you pronounce it. The author of the study. Their interpretation was that it was a sort of coming together, like the black Christian nationalists and the atheists that are both victims of bigotry and oppression coming together as a no, we'll fight against it. I don't think it's quite that. I don't think it's an
intentional union. I think it's just as I described, it's just a natural result of being the victim of that prejudice by Christian nationalists And would you say that, strange Bedfellow? Sure one might, could one could I have a question for the group for the panel here again this is from the discussion section. You know, they were reflecting in ways that they could improve their their study. Uh, the author wondered, quote, does individual Christian nationalism cause
prejudice against atheists? Or does an anti atheist attitude strengthen one's beliefs in Christian nationalism? So this is the causation versus correlation thing. So they saw that there was a correlation, but they pondered of what could be the cause? Is the Christian causing the nationalism or is the nationalism causing the Christian or you know, the other way around? Infidel? What's your thoughts? Oh,
without a doubt, the Christianity aspect is drived Bove. They want Christian nationalism, but to get that you have to have Christianity as the ultimate law bringer, law giver, and that's what they want. They really do want a Theoic. I really do believe that when it comes down to it, the more extremist people on this end are looking for something that is totally incompatible with what we see as a government. You know, we talk about this is
unconstitutional or constitutional protection. We have people like the Speaker of the House right who wants to have a constitution mention. So when you have people like this governor crab system, what these Christian nationalists want is something completely incompatible with the form of government that we're talking about. What we understand, something completely difficult. Eli. I tend to agree with you. I think it is overwhelmingly
the Christian nationalism uh leading toward the anti eighth At. I wouldn't say there
is an insignificant amount of it being the other way though. I think people who may not have leaned toward Christian nationalism may have been maybe I'm conservative and I'm a Christian, and then maybe have encounters with atheists or have hear stories or there's they're they're being taught about atheists or atheist and by their church or their pastors or their unreligious community, and they're getting ideas based on that and
then leaning more towards the Christian nationalist standpoint because that makes it feel united against you know, the sick horribly. So you're saying they're identifying as Christians first, and then they're saying, well, I guess I better hate atheists, know, and so then they do that as a result, and then the whole thing kind of jels together in one big nasty uh whatever. Yeah, I think I think more not like a decision to hate just for the sake
of hating necessarily in all cases, probably not maybe subconsciously. Then yeah, just starts starting to like, oh, well, I'm a Christian and atheists are not Christian, and atheists hate God because of course that's that's the reason we're atheists. We're just mad at God. So what they hear behind the pullpit whatxact time and time again, the dehumanization of a sorry, And I think that's what leads to there, Phoebe, what do you think will give
you the last take on this? Is the Christian nationalism causing the prejudice against atheists or is other way around? Well, you can't have this kind of prejudice against atheism unless you've learned it somewhere, because you can't walk down the street and have a sign about your head saying atheist theist. It just doesn't
work like that. It must have come from somewhere, and it seems blindingly obvious that this has come from Christian because Christian nationalism, at its fundamental heart is a belief system, and they view atheism as a lack of a belief system, and that breaks the metric that they run by. They don't hold these prejudices against other religious groups to the strength that they hold them against atheists, in my opinion, because they see those groups as having a belief system
that they can tap into and change. And the people that they dislike the most are the ones that they considered the apostates that are now the atheists, and they only focus you are abandoned God, blah blah blah blah blah, that's an atheist. What they will never say is this person never had a belief in a deity to start with, which is also a valid form of atheism. Not everybody is born with a religion, and anybody who says you are born with a religion can go and take that attitude and shove it up
there, because nobody is born with a religion. Religion is taught in the same way prejudice is taught. This prejudice comes hook line and sinker from the religion that is taught and the nationalistic dogma. In this extreme interpretation of Christianity that does nothing but on a fundamental level, push prejudice. True enough said, enough said, I think I can't. I think we're all in agreement on that. And on that note, I want to thank Infidel sixty four,
Phoeb Rose and Eli for joining me on nonprofits today. I really wish this conversation could keep on going