Welcome to the nonprofits.
Our second story this week takes us up to New Hampshire where some Christians are about to be put on Santa's naughty List. We have our man Kelly Laughlin here to tell us all about it.
Kelly well Scott.
The Satanic Temple, in keeping with their time honored holiday tradition, had been putting up boffamet displays on government properties that are also allowing Nativity setups.
Now.
One such presentation in Concord, New Hampshire's capital, was invited to be there by state Representative Helen Reid, who publicly calls herself an agnostic. Miss Reid, in constitutional fairness, wanted to make sure that Christianity was not the only religion represented, so she invited the Satanic Temple to set up theirs. But in an act of Christian peace and love, the arrangement was only up for two hours before being vandalized
and nearly destroyed. The city didn't release a statement prior to the statue being erected explaining its legal option delegations for allowing the display to be erected, and even made a note of saying that it would be unattended. The Satanic Temple representatives have they keep preparing the exhibit. It's been vandalized several times now, and though bruised and battered, it still stands guard over the establishment clause in the First Amendment, protecting our right to believe or not believe
in any religion. This story is from The Friendly Atheist by HEIMT. Metta, December eleventh, twenty twenty four.
So, could Kelly, I want to stick with you for a second here, could you expand on this a little bit? Is do you think this kind of inner group violence is a healthy way of interacting with other people?
No, I totally don't.
No shock of all shocks.
Yeah, yeah, I don't. And again, this is like, this is coming from people who are supposed to be spreading a message of love and peace, you know, So I don't. I don't know how anybody could think that the are going to be doing that and still commit violent acts at the same time. But we see this with THEIS quite often. It's it's like they believe that the ends
justify the means. I personally don't believe that. I think if you're gonna do something that stoops you down to the level of the people, that you're finding against you've already lost. So yeah, I don't think I don't think this is the way to express your feelings about this.
Let's jump over to Steven for a second. So what do these tell us about the Christian mindset then? I mean Kelly was talking about how you know they're they're they're acting in ways that don't seem to be in alignment with their professed.
Beliefs and philosophies.
Do you think do you think that they're just defending their their beliefs. Do you think they're just defending their faith or is this just basically a temper tantrum.
Well, like to be fair though, like this is nothing compared to global genocide, and that's the model that's been set for them, So you know, maybe maybe they're actually being actually really gentle compared to what their God does. Yeah, Like like for me, I when I tried to understand something like this, an attack like this, I tried to see, Okay, what was it fear? Was it ignorance or was it
privilege that that brought this about? Like if the person, I think the first person, any of the people who have been vandalizing this display actually understood what the statue represented. Would they have still committed this crime or were they just so triggered by what they assumed was an evil satanic worshiper looking to get a cloven hoove into society that they just needed to take a righteous stand. Like what did was did their brain just like click off
because they didn't understand? And like, I get it. I used to be there, Like I remember clearly feeling compelled that I needed to set my friend's Ouiji board on fire because I just knew. I was convinced that this was satanic, this was demonic. No no, no, no, no no. And she didn't let me set it on fire, thank god.
But I can, I can I remember that mindset. Right on the other hand, like maybe this is just a shitty display of privilege where the month of December can only be about one thing, and that is the non consensual impregnation of Israelit teenagers by authority figures, Like maybe that is the only thing that we're supposed to be celebrating this month.
I mean, isn't that what December means? Isn't that what there is? That what the December translates into.
And I don't know, I don't know from Latin or Hebrew or whatever.
Interesting.
Interesting, Let's let's jump over to Jonathan here for a second. Jonathan to me, you know, I hear what what you guys are saying, and I just think hypocrisy.
Right.
We hear mentions just like Kelly was mentioning about Christian love, right, and it's it's said sarcastically because it's used in reference to these acts of violence. Although, as Stephen pointed out, this has scaled quite a bit back, like from things that we've seen when the in the Old Testament and so on. But is that what we're what we're here? Is this just a backfiring Christian love or what's what's the deal with this?
Well, you know they're doing it out of love for us, because they don't want us to go in a direction that might lead us to away from God and therefore, you know, go to help so uh and you know, so this way, if they keep us from going to Hell where we would have fun with all our friends, then and now we're going to have to hang out
with them, which to me is more like hell. You know, it's just you know, they think they're acting in our best interests, and that's what they're doing, and it's hypocritical because they don't even know what's in our bed. They have no way of knowing what's in our best interests. This is all made up stuff in their book being yeah, being soldiers of Christ. Christ wasn't a soldier, you know, so you know, it's like they come up with all these weird, twisted views of itinerant rabbi back in the
two thousand years ago. But it's it's really interesting to me, not just the hypocrisy, but the hypocrisy of you know, sparing the graven images of the Nativity scene, which they're not supposed to make ten commandments people, and only attacking the graven image of Baphomet, and they left freedom from freedom, uh, freedom from really uh freedom from Religion Foundation. The f fr F display of the Bill Wrights was left alone as well, So why only TSTs Well, it's a graven image.
But I guess that wasn't the reason. I'm pretty sure it wasn't.
They were just I'm pretty sure it was because he was offering an apple.
That's it. It's a temptation apple. There. It is still I think they're trying to do.
Six years later, they're still pissed off about thee and.
It probably wasn't even an apple because apples didn't grow in that area, so it's like, okay, whatever, that's what makes it probably a pomegranate. Actually, it's just what the people in Rome decided it was when they were writing this shit down. So you know, it's just a sad, sad situation, you know. But these people just generally, they I think they justify it in their minds, in their man child or woman child minds, that is that they're helping us by destroying graven images and blah blah blah.
But what they're really doing is just showing that they're juvenile.
Well, I agree.
It's also that idea of like it was like, look at Abraham, right, if he knew that sacrificing Isaac was wrong, but God told him to do it, well, then he doesn't have a choice now because of this authoritarian mindset, it is right for him to kill his child. And that's that's what you need religion to do. You need religion to give you permission to do evil, wicked, wrong things, because then you get to you know, distance your I would say, well, man is God who wants it?
It's not me so and that way I get to I get to do harm to people I don't like because God wants it that way.
It's funny how that works out, Steven. I want to stick with you here. I want you to expand a little bit on what you were talking there. Let's let's look under the hood a little bit here and look into the mind of these Christians. And so, what do you think that this this need? Because because we've seen these type of things happening more and more often, this type of violence in the name of love and you know, torture in the name of togetherness, and you know, you know,
stuff like that. What do you think that tells us not only just about about the Christian mindset, but about the human mindset? Does this can we can we generalize this at all to humanity? Or what do you think is motivating this, uh, this ease with which these people are jumping to violence?
I think I think we're in a time of shifting. I think we're in a time of change and things have been Well know, anybody who was alive in the nineties and is able to look at now and look at then we know that the world is changing, and it is changing faster than it has ever changed in
the past. And I think for especially for those people who have a very well developed i want to say amygdala, the ones who are really motivated by fear like having so much change, such drastic change, and especially for older generations who aren't able to adapt to change as easily, this can be a really scary time and they've got to cling onto something and what is that going to be?
And yeah, if we can for them, if we can get back to the good old days and to a time that is less fraught with change, time that is a bit more familiar, and if we can feel righteous while we're doing it, then yeah, absolutely, of course that's going to have appeal. But I think that that's one of the big batteries in that engine is just this need define stability again, because now we've got AI and the Internet and mask mandates and just trans people and
suddenly like there's just so much more information. And if you find that scary, then it makes sense that you'll want to cling to something that is not scary and even fight for something that is less scary.
So do you think that we need to watch out for this type of reaction to make sure that we don't kind of go down the same route.
Yeah, absolutely, Like we're fally if we think that we are somehow immune to the stupid traps that other people fall into, right, we always need to be cognizant of that possibility. But luckily for some people who have that wherewithal to be able to break free of that authoritarian mindset where no, we don't need to just do what
we're told, we can actually think this through. Hopefully we're also able to put that introspective lens flipped around and say, Okay, well, if I'm not doing this because I'm being told to do this, why am I doing this? And what is motivating me?
Right? Yeah? Well said? And well said. I like, I agree with you.
I think that being able to engage in self reflection, I think that's the sign of a more mature mind. And and but you know, I might be you know, I have a biased opinion, of course, but but yeah, I think that's a that's.
A sign of progress.
If you can if you can turn that mirror safely onto yourself and and look at what and look at yourself as you are, I think it's you know, I think that's definitely a sign of progress.
And but you know, but we're still human, right, We're not. We're not. Evolution doesn't move that fast. You know.
We're still the same basically the same uh you know, walking apes that that we were, you know, ten thousand years ago, and we still have those same kind of urges and those same kind of.
Tendencies.
There's one one exception to that though, lactose intolerance has gone away. We did make that mutation within the last ten thousand years.
All right, So so lactose good, We got that covered. Violence.
That's next, right, I want to have I want to see the violence and tolerant people.
You know.
Yeah, I was one more thing. Remember Alvin Toffler's Future Shock, the book from the nineteen seventies. A lot of what he talked about in that book is what we're experiencing now.
That was pretty prophetic book. Actually, yeah, I thought it was fun because this story was kind of fun in a way because we got well we didn't, but the Satanic temple got enough peep Christians upset over a freaking mannequin. It was a mannequin, right that they committed sins in the eyes of their own God.
You know.
That, That's what I think is fun about this, And I think this is what you were talking about, Scott, is what causes you know, a human being to go against everything that they've been taught, everything that they built, that they've been that they actually believe in. I'm supposed to be good to people, right, and to do an act of violence, to commit a crime, and I don't
know what would cause somebody to do that. It really blows me away that somebody would stoop to that idea, And it makes me wonder, like, what would have happened if this wasn't the Christian God? What if it was a god like men Hit, the Egyptian lionhitded war goddess who wanted us to go out and massacre people. Can you imagine the reaction that this would have gone would have brought about if we went against men Hit, who was worshiped by everybody, you know, none of us would
even be alive today. So it's kind of scary in a way that people will throw away all their morals to go for a better, bigger religious good, you know, or what they think is a better, bigger one.
So, Kelly, then, do you think that the Satanic Temple was being intentionally provocative?
With this.
You know, we talk about things like taking the high road or when they go hot low, we're going to go Hi. Do you think they were taking the high road when or do you think they were being petty and intentionally provocative and maybe even maybe even hoping for this type of violence because it would get them in the news.
Well, you know, that's an interesting question. I don't think that they were trying to be petty. I do think that they were trying to be provocative, and I think they were trying to be provocative to show that, Look, the government, the constitution says we're not the government is not supposed to choose a religion. So when you let these nativity scenes up and you're just letting them up, you are choosing a religion. And that's maybe not a provocative message. And maybe it didn't have to be such
a provocative way to get that message across. I'm kind of glad it was, because, as you said, it got them into the media. It got them the attention that they needed, that this issue needs and deserves for people to read about it, to see it in the papers, to see it on TV, and to make people think about it and maybe show those people who aren't hardcore Christians that our ideals might be in danger by violent Christians.
Well, I mean it is pretty effective as far as being being a tool for exposing that kind of violent tendency, because, like you said, it's a mannequin, right, And they seemed like they got that thing fixed really fast, So I think they I think they were expecting it. Definitely they did from history from.
The first time it was from another organization. I think it's Freethinkers of what was it, Freethinkers of Ohio or something like that, that came in and fixed it the first time, but it's been several times. I think they
just have some money to do that. The interesting thing to Another interesting thing to me though, was that we might, well not interesting, we might want to turn this into a positive by making this an annual tradition to make a display like this and then ritually that ritually vandalize it to remember the old days when Christians were assholes, you know. So I mean, you know, we could turn this into a satanic ritual, you know, and make it more popular that way.
Kelly, did you have anything more to say on that?
Yeah, I just wanted to mention because John mentioned the money that was. It costs money to set this up. It costs money to repair it every time. I know it was vandalized at least three times, right, so every time it took money to read to fix it back up. And I just want to give a shout out and kudos to the people who put up that money and and the time to go out there and fix it. And it just goes to show you you just can't keep a good man nickin down.
All right, I'm just kidding, Steven.
I want to hear a little bit more from you.
I want to do you think that, I mean, what would be the ideal outcome with this? Would is the is the goal of the Satanic Temple too to have them ban all you know, types of of these types of displays, because that has happened in some places. Or is it their goal to have you know, true equality and uh you know had and open it up to to everyone.
You know what? What? What do you what do you think the ultimate goal is with this?
What do I think their ultimate goal is? And what do I think the ultimate goal should be? Might be two different things.
Let's hear a little bit of both.
I like a little bit from column a a little bit from Coluin B from Steven Today.
Like I know that I like, I I feel like there that I think it's wonderful if people I'm glad that people have the freedom to display things that are important to them. And if churches want to set.
Up these little scenes and.
Hey, then go right ahead. But if our government is a religious if if our government does not support any one religion, and and for very very specific reasons, then I don't think that any of our public money should be used to to celebrate, to promote any any religion at all, and especially especially such a toxic, problematic religions such as Christianity, like like like I I cannot personally divorce the Nativity story from sexual assault like that, that's
that is what this story is about. And it kills me, guys. It kills me that every year churches get the kids from their congregation and say, here we go, we're going to put on this, We're going to use these kids to glorify this story that is centered around the non consensual impregnation of a teenage girl. And they're like, why, why why do we have to be so oblivious to this? And and for our governments and for for just cultural in general to be like, yeah, this is cool, this
is fine, we want to celebrate this. Like, no, if you want to do that, you go ahead, but let's draw the line. Leave my money out of this. I'd much rather my money be used on I don't know, feeding people, keeping people warm.
It's crazy, right, crazy?
So but whatever. I'm a big fan of professional sports either. Why are we spending all our money on that?
Good question? And you know what gets me is high school and college sports. Why are we sending spending so much money on that?
I just recently understood, Like what high school football means to you? People?
You're crazy? What are you doing?
So?
What did the donkeys say to the sheep? There's a baby in my salad?
Boy, Kelly, you're hot tonight. You're hot tonight.
We got red hot Kelly Laughlin here tonight, Ladies and gentlemen, that's awesome.
The investigator the evabalism, though, the representative got the police to start looking into it.
So we'll tell somebody, Well, we'll see, we'll see what happens there.
I just have one quick question, and whoever whoever has an opinion on this can jump in here.
But we saw that the like.
We mentioned earlier that the statement the City of the Conquered issued this statement that was kind of a you know, a not apology kind of thing. Right, Hey, we got to do it. We're being forced to do it. It would be a shame if something were to happen to this year. Do you think that that attitude from the government.
I mean, the government's supposed to represent the people, right, But do we think that that is an indicator that local governments are becoming more and more brazen and more willing to take risks because the because maybe the atmosphere of that kind of thing is changing. Anybody have an opinion on that? Do we Is this a sign that things are getting worse, that maybe inclusiveness as an ideal is on its way out.
I think that's true. I don't know that this is a sign of that. Go ahead, John, you looked like you had something really important to say, so.
I was just going to say something that Kelly and I have discussed before is that this is sort of the last gasp of a dying philosophy, and they managed to stir up people's They use serious rhetorical and propaganda techniques and marketing techniques to get all these people all riled up, and if they start losing people's emotional attachments
to things, then they find another one. You know, you can look at what happened over the last five ten years, and you can see every time whatever they were saying was bad started not being so bad, they had to come up with another one or another group of people to assault, you know, and that way they can keep their power because it's bleeding away from the churches are emptying out.
You know, there's nothing more dangerous than a cornered animal.
So yeah, right, good analogy, And there's nothing more dangerous than a cornered nonprofit its fan