Hi, were you looking around in yournet for something interesting to launch? Well you found us, so you got lucky, and we are going to talk about a really interesting story that comes from Northern Ireland and Jonathan's going to take us there. So Jonathan take us from Ireland.
Yeah. Sure. Northern Ireland schools are not immune to the culture wars. Christian versus secular education is starting to clash a little bit, mainly issues like abortion and gender identity in their relationship and sexuality education, which is a course I guess they have. These are causing a lot of pearl clutching on the evangelical side. They represented of the Evangelical Alliance of Northern Ireland. Mister Smyth was discussing in the article that it seems the school system is teaching
inappropriate sexual information that includes quote unquote dangerous practices. He insists that does not want to start culture war and wants to find common ground. He also pointed out that some RSC materials also contain scientifically inaccurate content which confuses and conflates biological sex with gender identity whatever that means. The idea that coming out is a thing Christians do is notably a false narrative, a blatant attempt at co
optation of the coming out process and claiming victimhood. Essentially, they are not discriminated against. You can't be discriminated against if you're in the majority, So they do not come out as definitely, even if one's admitting religious religion was similar to coming out LGBTQ plus, it would be overshadowed by the difference that a severely oppressed group versus a majority socially accepted group. This is not a reasonable position.
There is no comparison. The comparison is ridiculous and even comical if we're not an obvious, devious and obvious ploy So this article is by Andre Kumar Christian Post Monday, November eleventh, twenty twenty four. And what does the panel think?
You know?
I was let's go to Cindy first. What was your main daughter takeaway from Smith's testimony?
Yeah, I just had one thought about this idea. Maybe maybe it has to do with the fact that one of the two groups oppresses all kinds of minorities in over the world, rapes children and then covers it. Tries to suppress any dissent in voice, whether it's scientifically or politically and does whatever it can to keep the ad epidemical live in Africa, while the other one is just some people trying to be accepted as they are. Maybe this has something to do with the reason why one
is more accepted than the other. Please christian please, I beg you, please stop with the fake victimization. Please, We're not the egest anymore. We we know, we know the reality. Uh And and the the article ends with with this question, is it secular blasphemy to believe that a man cannot biologically become a woman? So no, it's not. Actually it's not secular blasphemy because blasphemy is totally made up concepts. It is, however, transphobic to insinuate that trans women are
not women. Gender identity is not such a complex topic that it can be explained even to children. It just requires the constructing a lot of false idea appropriated by Christianity. Though yeah, I was.
I was trying to find what exactly toward the real problems that Smith had with these guideline, these new guidelines, and I I actually could not find any better story
than the one we had that had more details. I was able to find an article that he actually authored outlining the dangers of these new guidelines, and one of them was that this new regulation, I'm going to read it out to you because it's amazing that the new program will make age appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate education on sexual and reproductive health and rights, covering prevention of early pregnancy and access to abortion a compulsory component of
the curriculum for adolescents. Now, the Education Secretary is indicated that this should be done in a factual way that does not advocate nor oppose a particular view on the moral and ethical considerations of abortion or contraception. I mean, wow, how horrible is that? What kind of stand is that to take? Is that what the church is really opposing? Then who's in the wrong here? Because I aj I found the story shocking. What did you find shocking about it? Yeah?
I found this story shocking, but in a good way. Okay, in one of the aspects, because it seems like Ireland is doing such a good job at keeping things secular, you know, keeping religion and religious I got it.
I got to point out and I made the mistake earlier today about calling Northern Ireland Ireland Northern Ireland is great Britain, It's not Ireland. I want to say that to all my Irish fronts because they will take that to heart.
So yeah, I should probably make that correction as well. Yeah. So it seems that, you know, Northern Ireland is doing such a good job at keeping religion and religious groups out of public spaces that this has prompted mister Smike from the Evangelical Alliance to publicly share the displeasure with the fact that kids are having an easier time expressing their sexuality and coming out as LGBTQ, then they are
expressing their Christian faith. And if I'm being honest, the day that this happens in America will be a day to celebrate. It's the complete opposite issue of what we are seeing in the United States. And maybe the US needs to take a look at whatever Northern Ireland is doing, because whatever it is, they're doing the right thing by keeping science education in school and religious stop trends at home.
Yeah, I agree, I agree. I think the government, the British government itself, is doing a great job. I would expect some kind of like religious kickback from people in Ireland. I know it's gone to become more secular in the last couple of decades, but Ireland has traditionally been a very conservative religious country. John, did you get the idea that Smith was trying to push us religious views onto the school system and make the school system teach that stuff.
Yeah, what I kind of got the sense that common ground means their way or the highway. In other words, when the school doesn't need to change anything. They're doing it right now. You know what they want is they say that they're being not discriminated against, but they're being pushed out of the curriculum little by little, and they want to have a space for them to make sure that their views and their beliefs are maintained for not
just their students, but you know, everybody. So what they don't put together in their heads is that that is putting religion in the schools, which is not a good idea. Their space needs to be eliminated, not created. And so this is just another way of phrasing things in such a way that don't seem harmful to everybody. We're just trying to create our space so that we can have our beliefs and you know, treat everybody equally. You know, blah blah blah. It's excuse me, it's not equality. It
is trying to push your beliefs onto children. This happens in the United States all the time. They always word it in such a way that everybody is like, well, that can't be so bad until you start picking it apart and saying, yeah, it's bad. You know. You know, they're they're going with that, we're so oppressed. We're making our children learn the truth about sex. Oh my god, pearl clutching again, and teaching what is scientifically wrong conflating
biological sex and gender. Actually, no, they're probably teaching that gender is fluid and biological sex has more than two sexes, which is just a fact, you know. So it's like, I get really kind of just inflamed as the fact that people can deceive half truth and outright lie about things to try and get their way and try and get their their ideology or their thing thrown into a school. Now, I'm all for teaching the ideology and whatnot of Christianity
in the appropriate class comparative religion. If there is another philosophical point that might be in a philosophy class or a theology class, that's fine. That's where it belongs, does not belong in a generalized curriculum for all students. That is a little bit over the line. So that's all I have for that, boll.
That was quite a bit, And I hope that's not all you have because I'm going to call on you again. So I want to talk to Cindy, But before I do, I want to ask Aja one more question, because Cindy, I want you. I kind of want you to wrap this up because there was something in the last part of the story that got to me, and I know I think it got you as well, So I don't want to jump to the end of the story yet. But AJ, do you think the abortion question was the
main catalyst for Smith's testimony? It seemed like the headline was about Christians being Christian kids being more or harder for them to come out and gay kids. But I think that the abortion question was really what made him go testify. What do you think?
Oh?
Yeah, I agree. I think that one of the main things that may have set off mister Smike is the fact that the former Northern Ireland Secretary Chris Head and Harris had passed some new regulations in twenty twenty three that would make it mandatory for all post primary schools in Northern Ireland to teach about access to abortion and prevention of early pregnancy. And you know, this was set to start at the next school year, so I think
he was in a rush. You know, he has us concerns that the Christian perspective is becoming more and more excluded in school environments. He was quoted saying that there are some specific areas where the views of evangelical questions and many Catholics and Muslims are very distinctive, for example abortion. But I mean, since when are evangelical Christians considered about Muslims.
I don't know about that. That's a new one. But he claims that he wanted to make sure that the education about sensitive is just like abortion or sexual identity, did not subject students to what he calls ideological pressures. And this was really ironic because that's the definition of religious indoctrination. Ideological pressure.
Yeah, yeah, that is it. That is it. You know what, I am going to come back to Sydy. We'll get back to you again the third time. What what was What do you think was h I'm going to ask you the same thing. I asked, AJ, what do you think with smit, I'm going to call him Smith because in England they would call him Smith. What do you think was Smith's mame motivation for testimony for testimony testifying.
I don't know. I'm not in his head. But what what I notice is that uh, this culture war h L so it's called that's brewing in the in the US, it is spreading and in this what what the far right has been very effective at is to regroup all those issues abortion, a, gay rights, uh, trans uh trans rights even even healthcare sometimes and and all that is lumped into the far left ideology like it's it's the same thing when when uh someone in Congress proposes a
law to prevent one trans woman, uh who has been elected in in in Congress to use women's bathroom, one woman and they're going to try to pass a law to prevent her. So's it's it's just you know, when when we tend to say that trying to deconvert Christians is hard because sometimes you hit a wall and anything you say, they just push it back. It seems to be the same psychological and intellectual mechanism here. If you
start talking about abortion. Then they fight back for every other topics in this work agenda, as they call it. So I don't know how we can fight this other than education. The problem is, how do you educate people on the definition of gender identity? For example? You can only do it in a secular environment, but even then you're going to have people like him complaining that it's
you know, grooming the kids or something like that. So yeah, it's a little bit despairing, discouraging, but yeah, we're doing what we can here on the non profits. We're trying to explain things, and so that's what we do.
I think you're right though about like American trans bigotry spreading. It seems almost like we're exporting a lot of hate from this country and it's pretty sad. And another commentary on what you said, Nancy Mays, who's the representative who put in the bill to stop the Sarah McBride, the trans woman from using the same bathroom. This may end
up backfiring on her. I saw this happen in another place in the workplace, and they just created a third bathroom and the trans person ended up with their own private bathroom, So that'd be awesome. Sarah McBride ended up with their own private bathroom. That'd be great. So Jonathan, though, let's get back to you. What did you think Smith is really trying to protect children from You mentioned the truth earlier. Do you think that's what it is and he's just trying to keep people from the truth.
I think that what he's really trying to do is inject himself and his religion into the school. I think all of these things are dodges and created hysteria, you know, so that he can get his religion as ingrain in something in the school, even if it's subtly. So this is just I think he's feeling out the situation and seeing is this ever going to go any place? Can I push here? Am I going to get a lot of pushback? Or can I kind of like incrementally get in here and do something?
You know?
And it's all in order to it sounds a lot like we need to come together to protect the children from the truth. Unfortunately, but that's what the problem is because the secular side thinks, yes, protecting children's good, but they're saying they're protecting it from LGBTQ people and all this other stuff, which is not okay with secular people. So it's like using the words and leaving out the description is a way they deceive people and there thinking, yeah,
protecting the kids is a good thing. That's where in the United States we got to a lot of this bullshit is because they kept using nice language and people got wrapped up in it, wrapped up in it. Then it was used to demonize the opposition, and that's where we've rolled into this whole problem we got now. So they don't want common ground, they want the ground period,
you know. So this is just their way of saying, yeah, we're going to keep trying to do this until you get bored at looking at it and let us in. You know, don't do it. You know, you know, this whole thing about regarding the teaching of healthy relationships, for them, that's one man, one woman, uh cis heteronormative relationships. All the rest of us are just taken and thrown out the wind. That baby with the bath water, you know,
just throw us out. Consent and preventing violence against women and girls, that's the one thing Christianity is not very good at doing ever in the last five thousand years. So you know, from the Jews, forward notes there.
He does seem to genuinely think that there are no no morals unless you follow his strict religious views right exactly.
He doesn't think that anybody else has the right way of thinking. So that's one of the things that they use this language. But they really their intentions are not to just be tolerant, you know. They're they're of everybody, and then keep their positions in the line in people's eyes so that they can get somebody following them. That this is all about a very insidious kind of gradual takeover. You know, We're going to pick away at it until we get something large done that allows us to slide in,
you know. And that's exactly how they do this. They start with these let's save the children from this, let's do this, and then we want to ban this book, you know, that's the next thing you see, you know, And we want to make sure that there's no don't say gay, you know, so that the kids don't even know that gay people exist. They want them to learn all their sexuality from the streets, you know, and that's not a good place to learn about sexual health or relationships.
No, that's not true, John. They want them to learn about it in the church.
No, but that's not where kids pick it up from.
I understand, because that's not where I picked it up at it I'll tell you what. But yeah, I mean I agree with you, but that but where they want them to pick it up at is in the church, right, because that goes back to what I was saying before. Unless you have our strict religious morals, then you are just any moral piece of scum, right, And I think we see that through almost all theology is if you don't follow my idea of God, then you can't be
a moral person. And I've also often wondered why that idea came and you don't see it in all religions, Like I mean, Hindus are a little bit more tolerant, but you definitely see it in Christianity and Islam.
Right, yeah, we're unless you're in India.
Now she wants to say, I can see she's boiling over there.
No, yeah, yeah, I had something common to make that Jonathan made about Smith claiming that he wants to find common ground, and I'm like, I'm wondering, is it really common ground that he's after?
Al?
Does he want the church doctrine to prevail against what he calls scientifically inaccurate. And you know, I imagine that he would be okay with ben in any reference to biological sex and gender in order to erase the existence of trans people, just like what we're seeing here in the United States, right, And like, what would he consider a healthy relationship, My guess is abstinence, I know, sex before marriage, no contraception, since he's against his personal Catholic doctrine.
Like I don't think he wants common ground. I think he wants church in schools again.
Yeah, you know, he's saying that he's, uh, he's concerned about ensuring the teaching of things of sensitive issues such as it is almost a direct quote from such as abortion, differing sexual identities, allowing for space for students are not subjected to ideological pressures. And then what I see there is him saying that, hey, we don't want to be treated the same way we've been treating people for years.
Yeah. And his last plea in the group's views for being marginalized in schools setting and and and I say yes, and rightly so, just say no to religion in schools. That's it.
Yeah, And you know you know what he what he would respond to that, I don't want school in religion.
No, it's city that that last part of the story, that last line there kind of got to both of us. I think for the same reason, you want to share your ideas about secular blasphemy with us.
Yeah, I think it's just nonsense. Blasphemy is what insults against God, and so they cannot be secular blasphemy. So but by definition it's worthless. But I get what he's trying to say here. It's to say that secularism is a doctrine and therefore we have to accept it, and we are trying to force it on them, which is
not true. Secularism is not a doctrine. Is just keep your church and your beliefs at home, and we in this collective space that we're sharing, then everyone keeps their religion at home, and we do whatever we can to find a better way to live together. But the only way we can do that is so that everyone with their different religion and different beliefs and different way of lives, keep that to themselves.
Awesome