So now we're heading to Michigan to where a commissioner wants to prevent Satanist from giving an invocation. Jonathan tell us a little bit more about the story. Certainly, on April twenty third, a minister from the Satanic Temple of West Michigan will be delivering the invocation at a monthly meeting of the Ottawa County Board of Commissioners in Michigan. The Satanic Temple applied as required by the procedures and
regulations established by the Board for delivering the invocation. They were subsequently given the invocation for April twenty third, So the procedures were established by the board in response to a twenty twenty three lawsuit by the local episcopal He filed the suit claiming religious discrimination against non evangelical churches. This after he had asked to do
the invocation several times and was refused back then. At that time, the board chairman, a evangelical Christian, picked the speakers from a group of evangelical churches that he particularly liked and disregarded all other churches and all other applicant. The lawsuit is still in the courts, but it did push the board to
pass a new invocation policy. Now anyone who wanted to speak had to make a formal request in writing to their local commissioner, and then a staffer would then schedule their speakers, and so the Satanic Temple got their date and invocation. Of course, this did not sit well with one of the six extremists
on the board elected in twenty twenty two. They had an extremist takeo and who claims it's against the Christian values of the county, whatever those are, and in a lengthy diatribe online he seemed very determined to keep Satan out of the county, even though that's not what's happened. The Satanic Temple straw man that he's building to deny access, it's just awaiting somebody's match this after they
past the resolution that the county was a constitutional county or whatever thatpens. Yeah, well, it seems like that a lot of times when we're having when we're actually talking about these particular stories, like people bring up the Constitution so much, but they just happened to gloss over that whole thing about the establishment clause and Thomas Jefferson's whole thing about separation, the wall between us, the
state and also religion. But oh, we digress. So I know that the whole thing was mentioned about this rotating roster, and I know, Eli you talked a little bit about that in your notes well, about Ottawa County's rotating roster of leaders in the community to deliver the invocation. But even as Jonathan talked about the county board chair, Joe Moss has his favorite can we
talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, So it seems like just kind of like Jonathan really summed up good or sum it up well, I should say the there was just a handful of local religious leaders that Joe Moss was the board chair, the county board chair, he was hand selecting these
leaders. He wouldn't allow the opportunity to a local Episcopal leader who sued the board in twenty twenty three, and although the lawsuit is still in court, it did prompt a new policy to where anyone who wants to deliver an invocation. This is the policy John talked about that TST followed in this case, anybody who wants to deliver an invocation at a county board meeting can submit a
written request and be scheduled. Minister of Satan Reverend Lewis Cipher applied and was scheduled attentatively, as John said, for April twenty third, And that's when Commissioner Jacob Benema challenged TST with all the authority of a Facebook post rambling about his objections to TST, to Reverend Cipher speaking at the NK or giving the invocation. Now we already know how much authority Facebook post have eli so you
know, don't don't jump down history too too much. You know, we're talking about the most popular medium for flat earth and beer and mid conspiracies and so yeah, that's scary, that's very scary. But I'm coming to you, Helen, to talk about more scary things because you are a resident member of TST, and I'm pretty sure that you have some pretty interesting thoughts,
specifically about Commissioner Banema from Attawa, from the Ottawa County Board. Please please be please, Okay, it's start off Hall Satan by the way, my wonderful nonprofits viewers out there, and to my fellow panelists. So this like
these mofos I am over. I know I say this a lot, but because it just seems to be a running thing when we talk about the TSD that they're like, hey, we want to participate in public stuff too, but you know, if you if you are allowing religious groups to have space and you know, public forms and in front of the city commission, Wow, we want to participate too. And they're like, Nope, because you're scary, and I think the devil's real, and because I have the beliefs
of a five year old, so I'm scared. So Nope, I don't like it because it makes me uncomfortable. And I'm like, okay, I'm like, I'm sorry that you know you're you're suffering from a booo. But let's have a conversation. So Commissioner Bonima, I think that's why I pronounced it, wants to pretend it isn't what he thinks it is and trying to pretend that he's trying to repress, not repress somebody's freedom to have the religious
expression. And he just says, like, the TSD is all theatrics now, Granton, Yes, but the reason why is because of this exact thing. We're trolling you man, And the reason why we're trolling you is because you haven't read the Constitution and don't believe in the establishment. Clause and that's a problem as an elected official. So you know, I think you, I think you need to like just sit down and read the document that you
promised to uphold. You know, I think it's so interesting. I think it's so interesting when I listened to like Christians who happen to be especially like evangelical Christians and being one back in the day, even before when I was an Episcopalian back in the day that they talk about the Satanic Temple being so
theatrical. But I mean, have you sat through your services? I mean, like if anybody can be can actually claim Viata, it's definitely a Christian church, whether if you like my Catholic upbringing right, like the Catholics like all the bells and smells and kneeling and standing and also doing your chanting right, and and don't go to a Pentecostal church because you might see somebody do
a Simone Biles on you. You know. But going back to a more serious topic, you know, in the article Commissioner Bonima Banima, I promise you, audience that we're going to have all types of pronunciations for this commissioner's name before the end of the whole you dig. But one of the things that he claimed is that Satanists shouldn't be allowed to deliver the invocation because it violated the supposed Christian values as our panelists have said of the community. Whatever
that means, I don't I don't know, I mean like whatever. Plus he added that the Satanists are just engaging in cheap theatrics, as Helen has pointed out, and pulling a publicity stunt. Yes, I know that word publicity hooked on findings work for me. So Jonathan, I want to come to you because you also quoted him as saying I advocate for maintaining peace within our community. So when you read that, what were your thoughts? How
this ingenuous? That was the first thing. His pages long argument basically declares that the Satanic Temple is not a religion, which it is under US law, and it's just doing a publicity stunt and should be refused. That's not a grounds, that's a typical judgmental, intolerant, ignorant Christian hate to be so it is not even good pr So whoever's doing their marketing needs to be fired, nor a valid argument either. So, because there's no subject obtor
and It's not the least hypocritical, is it. So let's go to what he actually said. I advocate for maintaining peace within our community. I urge our board leadership to recognize the situation for what it truly is, a mockery and a publicity stunt. I implore them to rescind the invitation and to put an and then to this senseless charade. So denying members of your constituency equality with other churches is maintaining peace. Who's p your church's peace? That's what
got you into the first lawsuit. You just want to start another one. How peaceful is that? You want to end the Satanist invocation? Here is a clue. Just do away with all religious crap at your county meetings altogether. How about that You think that might work? That's my opinion on it. No, No, not end any or invite any person to do an invocation or not actually doing an invocation at all at the beginning of a county
board meeting. That has to do with government with elected officials. What Jonathan, you are an anarchist? Hey? Our government secular? Get over it, your Americans and ought to support the government exactly for who is not telling you what to believe and how to run things. A government who is not telling maybe you want to support that, particularly in your capacity as a representative
of that. The other thing I have to just have to say this, and I might get a lot of push ahead, but there is a majority sect of Christianity that might gain control if you make this a Christian country and you ain't it. Scotus has six of them and none of you. There are more than a few in Congress too. Are you sure you want a Christian country? The guy you might be bowing a need to might run around
in a white stole and cass just give that some thought. No, that's a that's a good segue as far as like going back to this whole Commissioner Bonima Bonima Barana rama when he actually wrote his Facebook post authoritarianism, as Eli so aptly put it. But you know, we're talking about Christian principles, Christian values. We even talked about that earlier in this week, about how others are trying to imbue this particular edict on the rest of the country.
And I know that Eli, you talked about that as well in your notes, about these Christian principles that Bonama was so aptly wanting to put towards to Ottawa County Board. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah, so Jakie Bones is just he has another claim here about Christian values,
right, and it's I have really the same response. So we go to his official public relations memo, I mean his Facebook post in which he says, the foundation of our community on these Christian principles has contributed to its appeal and attractiveness. God's hand has guided the development of our community. And I paraphrase, I did do dot that a little bit, so I took some
out, but nothing that changes the meaning. And I struggle so fucking hard, just like I said on the last segment, to understand what people mean when they say Christian principles. Do you mean not killing, not being an asshole, empathy, sympathy? Is there a single good moral value that can be uniquely attributed to Christianity and nothing and to nothing else. We have observed morally unambiguous behavior in rats in nineteen fifty nine, nineteen sixty two, twice
in nineteen sixty nine and in twenty eleven. In twenty fifteen, we saw it in pigeons in nineteen eighty six, and in several primate species, twice in nineteen sixty four, in two thousand and six, twice in seven, in eight, ten, eleven, and seventeen, and in countless other times in other species and in the same it's not even close to half from the studies that have been done that have observed behavior that we attribute to morality in
non human animals. And I would and do and will argue that animals are decidedly non Christians. So if Christianity is the basis for these principles and these values, why are we observing them in non Christian non human animals. What is the disconnect name for me, a single Christian principle that I can't explain with just like, yeah, well, we're social animals and there was a
social benefit to behave this way and not being an asshole. So we all started behaving this way because when you don't, people think you're a dick and they don't want to help you, and now you're on your own and you die. Well, you know I have to push back on you. Eli. I see my dog bowing down and singing how great thou art every night when she wants yes, yes, it's more like, how great thou dog
food because I'm hungry. But regardless of that, Helen, I know, I can really imagine your indignation when you're reading this story, and especially when you are covering yet another time elected officials using their Christian principles, as Eli talked about and Jonathan's well to basically practice religious bigotry. So, you know, I would like to get more of your thoughts, especially on the Satanic
Temple's response of the behavior of Bonima Bonama Baranorama fau Fembo. So I really do like the fact that the TSD was like, yeah, we're not really going to back down because like you said that we could and just and again like just because Banana rama Man was like, well I don't really like this, and we're like okay, And their response was to make sure that okay, if you're going to discriminate, then you're going to get a lawsuit.
You can't do that. And I think this is a very good way to say, at president, not only for the TSD, but like, what of a Islamic group wanted to do a religious ceremony, you know, at the at this at the county commissioners counting commissioners building holding most I can talk or any other any other group that is recognized to have a religion in the United States, Like if you're Pagan, Muslim, Jewish, you know, whatever it is. If you are, you're meant to be protected under the
Constitution. And I do want to quote Bender bones An Un Dame Minister of the Satanic Temple of West Michigan. I want to thank the County Board and the Ottawa Impact Organation for their declaration of attempt to uphold the valids enshrined in our constitution. She told the board. It may our constitutional rights are most
churched assets as United States citizens, and even more so as Satanists. The First Amendment states that Congress shall make no law respecting the established establishment of religion, nor restrict the free exercises thereof. Now, I think these are all words that are very very important living in democracy, and we should take those things to heart. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you get to restrict the light rights of other human beings when we're protected under the lah.
I am so sorry, Banana ramon Man that this is upsetting you, But grow up. You're not five years old, and just deal with it because we all have to deal with all the Christian shit that we have to deal with. Deal with something that's making you uncomfortable for half an hour, my goodness, and that's it. That's my that is my sane as rant. Well, it's a good rant, and I appreciate it, but you know,
my thoughts are just like this, guys. If the commissioners actually succumb to the pressure of Bottomah to exclude the Satanic Temple from delivering the invocation, as we all mentioned, they are facing a lawsuit, point blank, period, and the Tatana Temple can should be able to deliver the invocation if it's
something that's being offered for that particular government body. And the thing that we're all really screaming is that we are seeing these lines blurred between separation or church and state, and they need to be clarified so that the boundaries of religious freedom in public forums can actually be held up the way that the founders intended
it to be held up. And in essence, the situation actually underscores the importance of upholding constitutional principles of religious neutrality in government proceedings WOW and the need to protect the rights of all individuals to express their beliefs without discrimination or censorship. Q bigotry, duck here. Oh David's not here today. Huh that's unfortunate. Quack quack, Yeah, yeah, don't worry about it, quack quack