Today mammoth Biosciences announced their series CND at over a $1,000,000,000 valuation. Mammoth is a story that startup founders should be following because there is so much to learn from their experience. So today, Omri Drori, the head of NFX Bio, and I sit down to hear more from Trevor Martin, co founder, and CEO.
Ma'am has started almost 4 years ago now and spun out of Jennifer Doubden's lab at the University of California, Berkeley, and affects lead, mammoths, Pete seed, and their seed, and co led to Series A, and has now invested in every round, including today's Series D. We even Beller them name the company. Mammoth is the poster child for the NFX strategy of using network effects to build bio platforms.
An approach to building bio businesses that should allow them to get to ten times the size of normal bio companies. Mammoth is also a great example of how and affects supports scientist founders as they become great CEOs and managers after they leave the lab. So let's listen in to hear more about how Trevor and his co founder Janice Chen, Lucas Harrington and Jennifer Dowden have built mammoth into a company you're going to be hearing about for many years to come.
Okay. Beller, welcome this morning Trevor Martin, CEO of Man with Biosciences. We're so glad to have you here. Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's always exciting to chat with you. Yeah. So, you've got an announcement about a series definancing for Mammoth. And today, I'd love to have you tell the founders out there about sort of where bio is and your journey to inspire others and to let people understand, you know, what Mammoth is and where it's going. So it's what we'd like to cover this morning.
So tell us, where's mammoth today? Just to give everyone a sense of the scale and the size and what you guys are doing so people know mammoth biosciences. Sure. Yeah. So we're starting to almost 4 years ago now, I'm spun out of Jennifer Dalton's lab at the University of California in Berkeley. We're founded by myself and Jennifer and to the star graduate students from Jennifer's lab, Janice Chen, and Lucas Harrington.
And the company is really founded with this idea that by leveraging kind of the diversity of life and just all the different organisms that are on this planet, you could really Flint, characterize, and develop novel CRISPR systems that go beyond legacy ones like Cast 9, which are kind of the most famous ones in use right now. And that's a very kind of audacious goal, really develop these truly new tools.
And very beginning of the company, we already had 1 brand new product application that was enabled by some of these new proteins we were looking at. And that was CRISPR based diagnostics. So we you know, from day 1, we had invented this entirely new field of products that couldn't exist before. But we always knew that it wasn't going to stop there. Like, with these new proteins, they're be all sorts of new uses and, of course, in therapeutics as well.
So fast forwarding to today, the foundation of the company remains that CRISPR protein discovery and development pipeline. That's allowed us to build the largest toolbox of CRISPR proteins of any company on earth. And on top of that, we now build products on both diagnostics and in therapeutics well with new properties that are unlocked by these proteins on the therapeutic side. And we've grown a lot.
So we're now over a 110 Pete, and we have our own building down in the Brisbane, South South area, right, on 101. And I think there's maybe an interesting metaphor there as well as the old adoption of America headquarters so that kind of like biotech and software history is, you know, colliding in that space. Biosciences started, we had Cas9, right? Which was invented by Doudna and and Zang and whatnot.
And then from that, we've got editas and Intellia and Christopher Therapeutics from just that one Cas9 protein family. And now we've got you guys, mammoth Biosciences has Cas12, Cas13, Cas14, and Cas Pete, and this is now this toolbox, which allows you to do therapeutics, as well as diagnostics. So both. Yeah. No. I think it's really down to having the right tool for the right job So if you have just one forteens, like you've got a hammer, so everything has to look like a nail.
And that can be fine, but, like, you really gotta make sure it's James, and it's just not something that you think is a nail, it looks like nail or when you look at it in a certain direction. But when you have a toolbox, you have the hammer, you have the screwdriver, you have the power drill.
And I think that's really actually very powerful concept of saying like, okay, you're gonna use the most effective tool for the job, whether that's in diagnostics and you need something at the right temperature. And therapeutics, and you need something. We pioneer this space of ultra small proteins that really unlock a lot of delivery options. And I think that that is really how you build this next generation of CRISPR products broadly and really deliver on the promise of CRISPR Got it.
And so in the software world, we use the term, you know, platform. And so you guys have both the IP, the sort of wet IP as well as the software to partner with eventually hundreds of people who are developing new therapeutics, new diagnostics, new applications in agriculture at some point using this Is that the idea? Yeah. And I think one of the things that is special about Mammoth as well is that we are very committed to building product internally both in diagnostics and therapeutics.
And that's very unique for a biotech company to be kind of full stack in both of those areas. But that's enabled, like you said, by the platform and the fact that we have this toolbox of CRISPR proteins that can be used for these applications and beyond, right? Got it. And so you're 110 people now and in 2 years, you'll be, what, four hundred people? And I mean, we're growing very rapidly. So definitely be, you know, the 300 plus range.
And I think that that's one of the things that's really exciting about, you know, the company as we're going into this next phase of birth is that we continue to get to add really, really high quality, team members and kind of unlock these new areas development and clinical. And I think that it's there's very few things that are as rewarding and seeing a technology go from literally in the lab to getting closer and closer to actually having an impact on patients.
The people who are at the firm as you grow from 110 to 3, 4, 500, mostly scientists. Yeah? Yeah. There's very high percentage of PhD holders in the company. Yeah. Got it. And that of course is where it's come from. And so what you're announcing today is a series D, which is what, a 150,000,000. Yeah. And then also our series C was 45, so 195 total. Wow. That's fantastic. And so talk to us about the origins.
I mean, originally, Omry was at Twist Biosciences as their head of M And A And Bizdev, and he was over at Stanford and saw you present this idea called me up and said, Hey, you need to meet Trevor and you came by the garage at my house and we sat and we talked. Take us back to the beginning in 2017 you were just graduating with your PhD in computational biology from Stanford. Take us back to the beginning and then how has it gone from there?
Because I think founders would really love to hear the journey of you know, a scientist who is now the CEO of a unicorn and has a platform that could transform how things are done in the Yeah. No. It's definitely, I think, been an extremely rewarding and exciting journey. I think actually in some ways, interestingly, a PhD can prepare you for start up life in the sense that is she's all about doing things that haven't been done before and being able to deal with uncertainty and setbacks.
And there's no textbook, right? For either startups or PhD programs. So I think that actually was something that's really surprising that you can kind of immediately start applying. But, you know, of course, there are many things that you don't know when you start off. So I think that's where having really good, advisors and mentors early on, like yourself and Omri.
I think that's critical to having success as like a first time founder, especially coming from, you know, just not a business field whatsoever. And I think in general, one of the things that I'm really excited about is there to be more, scientist founders. And I think that a lot of people in, you know, master's programs and PhD programs kind of self select, oh, they can't possibly, you know, do that, or there's, you know, too many barriers or something.
I think that's where there's a huge amount of potential that could be unlocked if there were more advisors and mentors like yourselves who Pete out there really helping people understand this is a path. And I think once we start seeing more success stories. And hopefully Mammoth can be a big part of that. I think it's gonna unlock that more and more to the benefit of society. So both Mammoth and, Twists was funded by Sandy's founder in your case, all your co founders are scientist's founders.
What do you think are the things that translate Beller, being a scientist studying company, and where did you need help? Yeah. So I think one of the biggest advantages scientists founders can have is, again, dealing with uncertainty and just kind of that not knowing necessarily which direction today can be uncomfortable with that and, like, being open to exploring and really been excited to develop the journey.
I think in terms of areas where internship and advising has been really important for me, has been things like managing a team and, like, growing a team and things like that where Beller better forest PhD programs don't necessarily train too much like that. Maybe better if they did Morgan. But I think that in general, as well, just having advisors and mentors around the company that can help answer just one of a million questions. Right?
Like, it's really hard to predict where you'll need the help. It really comes down to trusting people that have done it before and that have seen successful journeys here and really being able to call them up at, you know, 1 AM or whatever and just ask a question. And whether you go with their answer or not, really, Beller you understand what you're choosing. So a PG program is usually 4 to 5 years, and you've been the CEO for now 4 years. What's the steepest learning curve? What's harder?
Well, they're both hard in their own rate, but I would say definitely the interesting thing about a startup and founding a company is that almost every week or Beller day is different. And I think that's something that I really, really like about the startup journey is that you're kind of facing new challenges at every stage of the company.
One of the things that I think spent the benefit in a drawback maybe of, like, things like a PhD is that you kind of really are in this time capsule and, like, years can go by where you're just really focused on problem. And then you can, like, you know, kind of put your head up and you're like, oh, wow.
Like, the world's really kind of moved around and, like, I've learned a lot about this problem, but haven't really participated in the way I wanted to have an impact more immediately, let's say, on, like, improving people's lives. So I think that's the hugest thing about startup that's been really exciting is being able to just learn something new day to day, week to week, month to month. And then also to see that translating very quick into potential huge positive impact.
So the impact of Marlborough is potentially you could detect any nucleic acid in our RNA on the diagnostic side. Potentially, you can cure any genetic disease on the therapeutic side. How can you do so many things as one company? Yeah. Well, I think it takes a village. So I think that's where at Mammoth, we're very interested about having a deep internal pipeline of products that we're working on and really believe in.
And then also working with partners where we believe deeply that by working together, we can really bring something to market quickly and effectively. Because, yeah, even in a 1000 years, like Mammoth would never be able to tackle every indication in every area that these could be beneficial in. So it's almost like we have a societal responsibility to make sure that we are really working with others as well to get this technology to patients.
So you're gonna be partnering with pharmaceutical companies to develop therapeutics for indications. We're working with diagnostics companies to developing diagnostics for certain indications, and that's gonna allow you to create this platform and we scale out the technology and get it out there into the world. Yeah. And I think to build a platform, it's interesting because you you really need the kind of shining examples. I think that, like, show it's the platform.
And so it's just really interesting kind of balance between really investing deeply internally and, building the platform out and really it all the way. And I think that's one of the things that makes Mammoth unique as well is that we're fully committed to building product. Like, we're, you know, not just out there, licensing the technology and saying, oh, I mean, I guess other people would figure it out. We're all in on really bringing these transformative products to ourselves.
And I think, you know, that's actually what unlocks our ability to work with partners is that commitment, that belief in our own technology, and that investment So you're not only developing new CRISPR protein families. You're discovering them and patenting them and continuing to expand that toolbox, but then you're also going to be developing some of your own therapeutics all the way. From beginning to the end without partners. Exactly. And in the diagnostic space as well.
And I think that is, you know, obviously extremely rewarding in terms of being able to patients, but also I think that's what unlocks the kind of true potential of the platform long term. And it seems to be that now is the time where the value of platforms in biology is unlocked and people can see it if it's the RNA vaccine technology for Moderna and Pfizer really changing the world. And now crisper, we already saw inpatient curing genetic disease. It seems like the future is now No.
I think it's an extremely exciting time in CRISPR, but at the same time, it's still really early days. And I think that's, like, the best combination, right, is that you've already seen this huge kind of exponential curve, but you know you're just at the first leg of it. I mean, it still has just like a huge way to go, and that's gonna just be so impactful for, yeah, both curing and diagnosing diseases.
So I think people know Mammoth's more on the diagnostic side, but now in the therapeutics, what's the unique about your small CRISPR protein that makes them so valuable for therapeutics? Yeah. So in mammoths, we've kind of pioneered this field of ultra small CRISPR systems, and people didn't really think CRISPR systems could be this small and compact.
Is some of the shining examples of this are things like 14 and CASB whereas some legacy systems like say Cas9 or, you know, 1300 amino acids and these systems can be even much smaller than 800 immuno acids. So it's just qualitatively different range of sizes, and this can really unlock what's possible on the delivery side, which is one of the main challenges for having effective in vivo therapeutics and really getting to our north star for Mammoth of permanent genetic Currier.
So whether that's using something like AAV where it's like you essentially have a truck with its limited capacity and some of the existing have scientists just don't fit in the truck at all. It kinda sticks out the fact, but even the ones that do, there's just no room really for anything else. So what if you actually had a very compact system that only has a few boxes in the truck, and that leaves you all this cargo space for delivering other things that are important.
And, like, for example, unlocking a lot of what we call CRISPR plus it's using CRISPR as kind of a homing beacon for CRISPR activating CRISPR inhibiting, base editing, all these kind of applications. I think it's really going to be enabling for this. Hey, Omri, do you remember meeting Trevor? Yeah, definitely. The first time you met him, how did that go? Beller that story.
Yeah. So it was a demo day for Cardinal Venture at Stafford University, and one of my early employees at, Jim Campala was a student that Stanford, and she was the head of Cardinal Ventures who invited me to the demo day. And that's where I met Trevor. And, you know, his company was the only bio company in the batch, and he was very energetic. So, actually talked to him after that and and try to help him oversee the twist of the time.
And, obviously, I knew you because, you know, NFX invested my company, and I was part of the batch one of the investment that the NFX did in the Pete stage. So I definitely send Trevor your way and the rest is history. And then, Trevor, you and I met in the garage. Do you remember that? Yeah. No. Definitely. I remember walking around, yeah, the neighborhood in Palo Alto trying to find the garage Yeah.
I didn't know anything about venture at all at the James, so I was just excited to learn something, basically. Do you remember what that first meeting was like for you? None. It's definitely super exciting and definitely part of the beginning of a very steep learning Currier, I would say, truly starting from 0.
And if nothing else I hope that that can show people that, you know, not being steeped in the venture industry or knowing anything about startups definitely should not be a barrier to, you know, taking a crack at building something meaningful and impactful. When you first arrived, the name of the company was like, alphilia, and you were doing a diagnostic for fish Yeah. I feel you in a fish fraud, actually, which is still a big problem in the world. Fish fraud. People defrauding fish buyers.
That was the original start. Yeah. Now you gotta gotta start somewhere. And we gave you your Pete seed money just because we thought you were great. That was pretty much it. And then we started working together. And then, Omri, I think, sent over a paper about Cas 13. Is that right, Omry? Yeah. So, paper coming of JCLab using Prisma for Diagnostics. I remember calling Trevor and telling him, hey. You know, you have some money. Go to Beller.
Get the idea before somebody wants to start a company around because it's a better way to solve the problem you're trying to solve. And to Trevor's credit, he didn't think that his technology is the best in the world. He was so passionate about trying to solve the problem, but when he saw a better solution, you know, he went for it. Amazing. Do you remember us coming up with the name mammoth in the garage? Do you remember that session when we're renaming the company?
Yeah. I remember we had a ton of different names from how we got on animal topics. But, yeah, no, I think Mammoth is definitely something that's really come to characterize the company, but, yeah, it's also a bit cheeky in terms of, you know, being part of the twist on the idiom, like the elephant in the room. Like, it's a mammoth that's even bigger and you can't ignore it. And then, obviously, people are always talking about CRISPR to CUDA Mammoth. Right. To de extinct the mammoth.
Yeah. But we're not a de extinction company yet. Now. It's not what we're up to. I think James and you are prophetic because it's going to be a mammoth company. That's for sure.
It's interesting because, you know, the idea of doing therapeutics was there from the beginning and it's funny how persistent it's been in the community that somehow Mammoth is just a diagnostics company when in fact it's from the beginning, you know, been both and the idea of having it be a platform to do both and the more users of it. It dropped data back onto the platform. The faster everyone can invent and develop new therapeutics and new diagnostics.
That's always been there from the beginning. And been funny to communicate with folks who still think that Mammoth is just a diagnostics company, which it's a great one, but it's not just doing that. So Trevor, what would you say to Beller PhD students or postdocs that have some, you know, clever idea or they discover stuff in here in the lab and they want to start a company. What would you advise them? Yeah. No. I think that they shouldn't just close the door themselves.
Like, I think there's one thing that's been really maybe surprising, but really exciting as well is that I think there is, like, a very supportive community that wants to support graduate students and postdocs that are thinking about starting a company. Obviously, you all were really key for that, for us in the early stage.
I mean, I think that that's something that people don't maybe expect or don't fully appreciate is that I think and that's part of the magic of Silicon Valley on this, is that there is this community that's not, like, 0 sum. Like, oh, okay. Like, I'm only gonna help you if I get something out of it or Like, really there is an opportunity to just learn about the space.
And if you really believe that you can have a impact that's meaningful to you, going down the startup path versus, you know, any other path, then I feel like you almost owe it to yourself to really take a serious look at it. And that, to be clear, doesn't mean that everyone should do start up, of course.
Like, there's many cases where it doesn't make sense, but I think I just wish that more people understood that it is a real path and that there is a real amount of support for that journey so that if it is the path that you choose and it is the right Pete, that that's definitely a true option. So, Trevor, what was that moment when you decided to commit your life synergies to a startup, even though you had all sorts of options when you were coming out of your PhD program at Stanford.
Do you remember that moment? What was that moment when you decided it was worth committing and going into startup plan. Yeah. I think, I mean, a lot of it comes down to who you're working with as well. And, like, you know, especially with, you know, Janice and Lucas and Jennifer, I mean, it's a complete no brainer to work with just amazing people like that. And, you know, that really makes the startup journey worth it Pete you're working with.
And over time, that's, you know, increased with people like Peter and Ted and now Gary joining the executive team and just, you know, everyone in the company. I think that's because times are gonna be hard. Times are gonna be good. And, like, what really gets you through that is who you're working with at the end of the day. I think that's true whether you're gonna start up or email, whatever it is.
And, you know, I think that reflecting back is just what makes it so obvious is, like, okay, you know, these are people I really effect and, like, really, like, if we work together, we're gonna have a gigantic, meaningful impact. And then, of course, you know, you have an amazing technology that, like, is very quickly going all the way from lab to the patient's bedside. And, you know, once you combine those things together, it really becomes a no brainer of what else would you do. Right.
And you say what else would you do? Because suddenly you can see a path to applying the science and actually making an impact in the world. Yeah. And that's, you know, I think at least for me, you know, the most rewarding thing that's possible is to see something really go the whole distance, right? Cause it's a tough journey. It's like, kind of rare in some ways, actually. And then that's how you actually see, like, kind of the immediate impact.
When you're publishing papers in academia, you know, of course, people hopefully build on it. And, you know, eventually it could result in something, but to actually, you know, be a part of that journey and really enabling that. I think there's nothing better. I think the point you're making is incredibly important, which is as scientists, we often focus in on the science and on the technology, and that gives us confidence that we can make an impact in the world.
But what you're saying is being good at aggregating at convening the right people That's what really gives you that confidence.
That's what really gives you that that sort of marine corps, that platoon to go out and take on the world regardless of the science in some way, regardless of the business in some way, but as long as there's that team in place, you can change the science, you can find new technologies, you can evolve those technologies and what you're using, which is what you did in your journey with MAMA, and then also evolve the business evolve the business model, how you
charge what you do, but that core team and being good at that as a scientist founder. I don't think many scientists founders or scientists think of that as the biggest skill. I remember Steve Jobs had the greatest product he ever made was the team he assembled to build the iPhone. I'm a huge believer that it really comes down to the team at the end of the day.
And of course, especially in biotech, you wanna have, like, a great technology and all that, but there'll always be things that you need to add on and things you need to, like, think about. You know, you're never just gonna be able to literally take something and then, you know, not make any changes or further developments on top of it.
So, yeah, and I think that really is at its core is people that you, you know, enjoy working with and that kind of are gonna be, like, ride or die with, basically, through, like, a long journey. So we preceded you. We've seeded you. We've built in the series a with Mayfield. You're now this unicorn tech bio company. What are you most excited about for the next phase? Yeah. I think what's most exciting is that it's still early days for Mammoth, and we're just at the beginning of what possible.
So really the round is all about kind of putting the pedal to the metal in terms of our programs both in diagnostics and therapeutics and bringing them to patients. We've made a lot of, you know, technical progress that really enables us to now put that fuel through the fire. And in terms of kind of the future of Mammoth, yeah, I think that there's, you know, a real potential for Mammoth to become the next great biotech company.
And that's not something that I say lightly, and I really measure that in terms of patient impact. So having multiple diagnostic products, like multiple therapeutic products and really being one of the few companies that's accomplished that and had that kind of positive impact on the world. Yeah. Like the next genentech sort of thing. Yeah. And then, you know, hopefully, people say next now at the end of the day. Yeah. That's right.
Then really at this point, I mean, as you get, you guys started as scientists and most of the people at the company are scientists, but at this Flint, you're really married up with the bio business people as well, the people who have built these companies. That's sort of the stage you've been in the last year or 2.
Yeah. Yeah. I think part of the secret sauce of Mammoth is this really great combination, as you know, scientists cookometers out of, you know, HDs and, of course, Jennifer, and then really experience biotech execs. And it's not like an either or It's really an and truly with people like Ted and Peter and now Gary and many others throughout the company who just have very deep experience building products and diagnostics therapeutics.
And I think that that really gives you the best of both worlds and people that understand kind of why things are done the way they are, and then people that are of course, you know, coming in and challenging some of these assumptions. And it's kind of like art in that sense, right? Like, you can't just start, like, a late stage the cost of a plan. Like, you really need to understand the rules to break them, especially in biotech. Got it. And so today, you're just announcing Gary.
Can you tell us more about Gary and why he's important? Yeah. Gary Loeb is our General Counsel was basically, designed in a lab to be perfect for Mammoth. So he's coming to us from Sangamo. Then before that, he's been at, diagnostic companies like council. He's been at public and private therapeutic diagnostic companies. He was VP of IP at Genentech back in the day. So he has a deep IP experience that's important to Nana.
And I think He's the kind of latest addition to this team of both really experienced biotech executives and, you know, scientist co founders that results in this unique combination of a company that is building kind of this CRISPR based platform for the next generation of products. And I think it's that combination of experience of both people that know the rules and, you know, people that are always, you know, kind of questioning, like, you know, why is it that way?
That really allows you to build something truly unique. If you could time travel back and talk to yourself from 4 years ago, what would you tell yourself about this journey? Yeah. I wouldn't wanna reveal too much. Because it was fun going through it.
Yeah. No. I think in general, there's, of course, like highs and lows and everything in between, but I think it's extremely rewarding in terms of both, you know, personal development, like, just like your own journey of, like, being able to, develop yourself, but also Morgan importantly, being able to really have an impact on the world and a positive impact on patients.
But above everything, I think the number one thing for sure is the people along the way and just like really being able to work with a world class team. That's the part that, like, I wouldn't give up for anything for sure. Got it. Continue to, aggregate the great Pete. Keep coming back to that theme. Yeah. That's the foundation of it. I think nothing Beller, that would be the one thing to get right. And so as people drive north on the 101 in the San Francisco, Co Bay Area just past the airport.
They're going to see your building on the right side of the black building. You're going to have a big mammoth sign and the whole thing. Right? Yeah. And then there'll be a big mammoth sign. So whether you're going north or south to the airport. Welcome to stop by. Yeah. That's like in biotech alley or something. Right? Yeah. I know. Area was kind of pioneered by Genentech back in the day, and now large percent of biotech is around that Southwest South of Brisbane area. That's great.
It's been very gratifying to follow the progress. And, you know, I can't wait until some mama you know, really cure Pete. And then you think that just you have a small power Pete that is very gratifying, changing people's life and really helping them. So Well, great. Congrats on the series D, Trevor. Congrats on the growth of the company and we've been together for 4 years. I hope we'll be together in for another 20 because this is a long journey. A lot to do.
Yeah. No, and definitely really appreciate y'all's support from the early days. And, yeah, and it's been exciting 4 years. And, even more exciting for you to come. Cool. Very cool. Thanks, Trevor. Thank you. The NFX podcast is about seeing what others do not and getting at the true mechanisms behind people and companies that endure change in the world. If you enjoyed this episode, let us know by leaving a rating and review and by sharing with friends you think should listen.
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