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And today, we have Antonio Rojas with us out of Mexico City. Antonio is the probably the youngest female partner of any of LatAm's major VCs. She's a real star. Today, we're gonna go over all of LatAm and get a view of LatAm from the eyes, the real rising stars in venture capital down there. Antonio, welcome to the show. Thank you, James. It's an honor to be here today, especially since I've been hearing consistently Beller NFX podcast. So thank you for everything you're doing for Lake Osystem.
Oh, thank you. You're very kind. So let's say you and I met because of new volcargo and investment that we did together about a year and a half, 2 years ago. Yeah? Yes. My first deal at Pete, so it's a highlight for me in many, many ways. Got it. And you're at all VP. And where do you guys have offices in LatAm? So we're based in Mexico City. We are investing entire Hispanic. Right?
We have done invest expense in Chile, in Colombia, and Argentina, even in Spanish companies that have expanded to Hispanic, Latin America, but our main office is in and we have a very international team. So, I mean, I'm originally from Chile. We have Niko from Peru. We have MAPFae from Columbia.
Have internalized employees from friends, and that's something that we really like about the approach that we have to entrepreneurial it talent and tech scene because we want to tap on these different networks that each of us have and also get the different perspective. So we add up on each other. We don't overlap each other's network. Got it. And how big is this latest fund? It's fund 3 for LVP.
Yes. So we are finished investing our fund 3, which is an 85,000,000 Morgan amount fund and are almost finished with the fundraising of our fund 4. Which is a $150,000,000 fund. Fantastic. So we expect to be investing out of that fund in January. Got it. And so far, the first three funds have been focused mostly on Spanish speaking LatAm. Yes. So we have 1st in terms of geographies. We invest in Hispanic speaking LatAm, and then in terms of sector, we have for focus. We invest in fintech.
We invest in smart cities, which includes prop tech and logistics, then we invest in future of commerce, everything really to e commerce and the change that commerce is having in the region. And then we invest in human capital, which includes education and health. So all of these sectors are targeting the largest problems that the region has, and we want to help solve this problem through technology. And so you're gonna be also now investing in Brazil going forward with fund forwards.
Is that right? We are considering investing in Brazil, especially Brazilian companies that are looking to spend to Mexico. So our edge is the understanding and the deep understanding of Mexico environment and Mexico ecosystem and as well on the Hispanic and our aim or our vision for the future is that we can connect the entire Latin America, and it's not trivial to scale from Brazil to Mexico. And this is where we wanna tap in. This is where we wanna help out.
And this will be something that we'll be looking at in for fund 4. It. And you guys are typically doing seed or series a or series b. Where are you? We enter from the pre seed up to series a We feel more comfortable today with series a, but we have done a fair amount of free seed and Pete, mainly when we feel very comfortable with the space, So we know it for a while now, and we know the team or we feel very comfortable with the team that it's executing that idea.
So we can go from Pete seed up to series a. And then follow on in the rounds after the company that we have invested for the first time in that company. Got it. And your first investment was with Vault. He was with, nouveau Morgan. And that's how you and I met where you guys had talked to them and decided to invest and then came out of nowhere sort thing, and then we showed up. And then we co led that deal. Is that right?
Yes. And it was very interesting timings because it was in the midst of the pandemic I remember you were talking to Deepak at the same time and, then COVID hit and kind of like, we decided to go forward with it and you did as Beller, and it was super uncertain times, but, like, that's when you really decide on a team, right, on Deepak's ability to portray a vision and execute on that vision and then to attract the right people to help him build what it's
transforming and changing the landscape in a very traditional industry. Yeah. And so Nuvocarvo, this company that you and I did together is really sort of the flex port of LatAm. The largest transportation corridor in the world is Mexico US. Even bigger than China US, and these guys are now the leading, you know, digital freight forwarder for that Morgan. And that's something that we did together, and turning out really well. The team's doing well. So that's fun for us to be honest here.
That's how we know each other. So if we think about LatAm, you know, in the US, we've got Coya's got a big brand, and Teresa's got a big brand. What are the big brands of VC in LatAm? And would it be fair to say it's sort of, you know, Montechis and Kazakhstan at all Pete. Is that where we are today? Is there another one that I guess SoftBank has a LatAm group? Yes. So completely agree. There are players that have been positioning within certain countries.
We are looking at Mexico and expanding Latin America for a reason, and that's where I mentioned before, that's our edge. That's where we feel comfortable. And that's also where we're seeing the largest opportunities. Right? So if we see the graph of the amount of investment that has been delivered to Mexico, It has grown enormously. Last year, it was in $500,000. And today, this year, so far, it's in $3,000,000,000. Right?
And if we compare that with what has been invested in Brazil, for example, we see this huge gap. Meaning Brazil is even more. Brazil is even more. Yeah. And if we see these players that have been playing in Brazil mostly, they are all now looking at Mexico and that it includes international players. Right?
So that includes even you guys at NFX, right, we're so thrilled of having you here in the region, and we do see there is a very good between having Flint international funds that have expertise, deep expertise, either in product, in scaling the sales team, you know, with the local funds that understand the dynamics, the regulations that have a contact, you know, that can help attract talent and so on.
So we are seeing that every day Morgan, and that means we're having funds like Anderson Horowitz, you know, like Beller, like like Pete, like QED, coming to the region and seeing what's going on and seeing that there's so much competition in the US, right, and then Latin America is ripe for disruption.
So that's what we are really, really excited about, and that's where we see a good match with this international funds that we can be this local player with the butchering the ground, understanding what's going on internally in the country, in the regulations, in the politics, etcetera, with these funds that can open up the next stage of capital. You know? And so really the action down in LatAm is in Mexico, Colombia. I mean, Brazil number 1. And then I number 1. Columbia and Chile.
Yep. But I know you're originally Chilean, so you like that. But I think it's sort of number 4, and then it's a real drop off after that in terms of real startups in the LatAm So that's really where where people are. So I guess the typical growth pattern would be start in Mexico, expand to Columbia, and and Chile, and other Spanish speaking, or start in Columbia and then expand to Mexico and then maybe expand to Brazil. But that's always a big decision amongst all these companies is Yeah.
Which geography to go after next. So we actually did that research on this, and what we took was basically the expansion countries that companies were having, right, and Mexico was the extension country preferred by most entrepreneurs. Right? And we've seen this change, particularly in the last 4 years. Right, where before chileans or colombians or Peruvians wanted to expand to the neighboring countries. So go to Columbia or go to Chile and so on. And today, they are having Mexico top of mind.
So it's a mix between, you know, this interconnection that we're seeing with different Countries, and that's where we see the tie between Mexico and Brazil, right, on the other hand, talent moving to Mexico. 2 years ago, when my husband and I, we moved to leave to Mexico, there weren't many fellows or friends that were moving with us And then from 2 years till today, I have about 10 friends that have come to Mexico and live here and look for startups and works and so on.
Is there a gang in Mexico City at this point of twenty people or something? They all know each other. Yes. I'm worried. I mean, it's way larger. Right? We do have How many how many people is in this gang? Yeah. We have our small Mafias depending on the type of or network we want to tap. Right? So we have our Chilean mafia I have a group of only Chilean women's that are in Mexico City that they share a lot of tips, and I'm always up to date on what I need to do with everything. Right?
Then we have the Chilean entrepreneurs. Then we have the Latin American entrepreneurs that are expanding to Chile. I mean, to Mexico and all of this through WhatsApp. Right? So it's very, you know, connected and collaborated. It's very small. You know, I see people always talking Mexican government will say, well, we wanna do this and this and this with startups, and it doesn't work that way. It works through these small networks of six people and then ten people and then twenty Pete.
And really fostering those networks of confidence and sharing of knowledge that these ecosystems evolve and actually take root. Without those, there's nothing there. There's just a bunch paper that the government puts out or Totally. So I'm glad to hear that. I mean, I can feel it when I talk to you and Deepak and people at our other investments, like, well, how and Beller and Beller that there's, you know, the people know each other.
Yes. It's a closed network, but we are more coordinated than before. So it's like, you know, not only know someone, but you also, like, their name, but you can also easily reach out to them you know, on coordinate and are willing to collaborate, which is actually what happened.
And perhaps James, you can talk more about this, but what it happened in Beller many years ago, right, that there is this energy of collaborating of connecting, you know, and that's because now we have many people that are foreigners that they need to build up their own networks, right, and they need to navigate the country even from small things. Like, where do I go and send leave? Right? What are the Pete different neighbors look like? You know, I'll do, like, pay different accounts.
And just like these tiny little things, you need support. Otherwise, it can be a bit overwhelming, and that's what we're building. That's what we're aiming with all this small Mafias that we're building. Yeah. It's true. It's it's these small KPIs, these hot technique.
Yes. And, you know, all of the best films still come out of Hollywood because they have the technique for doing it, you know, and you guys developing the technique for how you build and scale these businesses, these tech businesses in Mexico City and then out for Mexico and then in the Columbia, that just James, you know, you can either go faster or you can go slow. Exactly. It's a subtle thing. Right? It's just like what will give you the edge and what will avoid you a lot of pains.
Yeah. And being in that network to get that information is so critical. So there's some real standout tech companies companies like new bank, I think, was recently raised at about 30,000,000,000. Kavac at 8.7. Wrappy at about 5. I know 99 sold to Didi. You know, 99 was the Uber clone in Brazil sold to DD for a 1,000,000,000. It's really coming on, and it's really, like, coming on in the last sort of 8 years. Am I right?
Yes. And it's interesting because Valuations are up, and I'm sure you have seen it from just, like, couple of years. Right? But on the other hand, the upside has never been larger. Right? And that's what we're aiming for. The fact that the countries are so connected today, and you can actually operate, a whole entire company in Latin America from Brazil or from Mexico. It's just like an increase in the upside that you can have on one front.
And then the other thing is like the that it builds back into a system. Right? So seeing an international company like Uber, buying, ownership in $3,000,000,000 it's it's just impressive. It's an outcome that we weren't expecting even 2 years ago. Right? So there weren't many companies that could buy another company at $1,000,000,000 valuation. That wasn't something that it was within stakes. Right? Like, what you mentioned about Didi was, like, on a wire. Right? Right.
And that was like 3 years ago. That really shocked the whole system in a positive way. Yes. And today is like, oh, impressive, but still, you see you know, at almost $9,000,000,000 and you see new bank, you know, or even, you know, like, despite the fact that they had been longer in existence, still, you know, we're seeing how the largest tech companies or the largest companies in Latin America are tech companies, and that's going to continue. That's what happened with us.
Yeah. You guys have done this wonderful charts, the Synacorn club. LVP has published these Synacorn club diagrams on Twitter if you search up listeners, if you search up for it, you'll see it. And it really gives you a geographic layout as well as sort of a time layout about when these unicorns were all born and the amount of activity in the last 3, 4 years is really impressive. What's happening now? You know, it does occur to me.
The valuations on these seed grounds are going up and TAM, and they may or may not be justified. And as you say, like, we're gonna have to hope that the outcomes start to, you know, reflect the 1,000,000,000 to 3,000,000,000 to 6,000,000,000 because otherwise, you're just not gonna see those types of return. I think the LatAm founders are really benefiting from 2 things. 1, they're benefiting in terms of their valuation.
They're benefiting from the fact that the valuations in the US are skyrocketing, and the companies like NFX, firms like NFX and Sequoia are now coming down to LatAm. So when they see a LatAm company. They're kinda comparing apples to oranges, but they look at the valuations and say, oh, looks like a 20% discount to the US company. That seems cheap. When in fact, it might not be depending on what the exit valuations can be because the markets are of different size. Totally.
And the frictions are different down in LatAm than they are here. And then the other thing I think the seed founders are benefiting from is these crazy, you know, web 3 valuations, right, where people like NFX and Sequoia and others are looking at not only are we looking at US Companies And Software And LatAm, but we're looking at these web 3 companies in the sort of crypto space and the valuations there are, you know, triple what they are in other spaces.
And so, again, by comparison, a lot of time companies look cheap, but they may not be in the end. We have to build real companies. I agree. And the only thing I would add to that is the fact that we do see increasing valuation in the top companies, but there is a bifurcation Right? So there is way less companies being funded than there were 2 years ago. Right?
And that comparison is super interesting because we are aiming way higher in terms of the outcome, right, but we are also funding less companies. Right? So That's interesting. So it sounds like there's so much money here in the US. So it sounds like you, like, you know, Manashees and Kazak, and you guys are sort of pulling back a little bit. Tell us about that. That's interesting. Yeah. So we're looking for the best teams in the largest Morgan. Right?
And that's our take, that's Mona cheese steak, that's a take, and that's sequoias and effects, everyone. It's right. But, like, 3 years ago, it wasn't like that. Companies that were following a niche, could receive VC funding. And that's not the case today. Right? So our returns are way higher, but there is, like, this middle level that are not receiving funding and perhaps are companies that should receive funding and aiming at a lower Morgan. Right?
But the problem is that they are going up after this large, large amounts of $10,000,000 Beller A or $20,000,000 Beller A, and that's not necessarily the perfect fit for their stage for their market, etcetera. So we are seeing something this gap in the market that we haven't seen before, and it's going to be interesting to see how that evolves. I think there is going to Pete certain adjustment, but, like, the top 5%, I think it ties with the upside that it's way larger.
Then what do you do with everything else? That's interesting. So a little bit what I'm hearing you saying is, you know, the top top 5% are gonna get funded no matter what. The bottom 60% probably won't get funded. And that that group in the middle, their expectations about valuation and raises have now gone past where the market will actually support Yeah.
At the top with couple of entrepreneurs that are in that part, and it's super frustrating for them because they are seeing all these rounds, right, and the you only see the press. Right? You don't see what happens underlying that. Right?
So I think as a region, we're gonna need to make responsible for that like, got in between, but, like, I think top players in BC and top players in startups are gonna do well are gonna you know, continue executing on their vision and what they are aiming for and the vision that they have for Latin America. Yeah. I think this is always a problem, which is that we only see the most extreme things in the press.
Yes. And so it gets really frustrating for founders, and it makes them both anxious and angry Exactly. That, they're not getting that same treatment that they expected to get having read that article from a week ago. Yes. That's tough. Those are tough conversations.
And, you know, I guess what we try to encourage founders to do is just to when somebody passes a cookie tray, take a cookie, or even if the cookie isn't the cookie you want that you can live to fight another day and that you can progress and move up the ladder of proof so that you can eventually get that round that then gets in the press And when they do, I think they will discover that they're just as nervous and anxious at the time when they show
that big round as they were before because it doesn't really change. There's always something new to do. It's the process. Yeah. I think the focus on execution is what we need to pay a lot of attention and not the vanity metrics Omri where you in TechCrunch, where you in Bloomberg, you know, and I think this hype that we're seeing, and it's okay. I understand. You know, like, the outreach that we're having as a fun is just like, incredible, and we haven't seen in the last previous years.
And that happens to entrepreneurs as Beller. Right? And you see the funding wrong. So everything makes sense. Antonio, when you say the outreach, what are you referring to? I mean, the inbound you're getting or the outreach that you guys are doing in terms of the unicorns in the Morgan Yeah. So good question. The outreach that we're having from international funds looking at Latin America and the outreach that we're having from investors that are looking to expose capital capital.
I think those are 2 outreach that we didn't see before. Entrepreneurs reaching out. I think that's the same, but, like, particularly international investors reaching out to understand the region and, like, to either co lead around or understand more of a Morgan, that is something that we just didn't see, you know, 3 years ago. So it has radically changed, and that means I can be very overwhelming. You know?
So so so I get that feeling of either frustration or angry or the other way around, right, like, of being, like, super excited and, you know, and over the ball in that regard, and it's something human. Right? But, like, we need to be able to understand that this change that we're living in a new landscape and how do we internalize all of these different signals and things that we're seeing and leaving. Right? So we focus, again, back on the execution, back on why we are here today.
We are here to support great founders that are looking to have impact in Latin America by building great companies. Right? We need to go back to that. And so what are you looking for? First, how do founders find you? And then what are you looking for when you talk to them? So how do founders find us? It's pretty the same as any VC fund that has, you know, our reputation and so on. Right? We are very available in terms of, like, our social medias, you know, and so on.
And then the other source of startups and it's my preferred source because at the end, it's a share of confidence. Right? Like, when a founder from our portfolio, shares us a deal. They know us. They know how we work. They know what we know about. They know our spaces of investments. They know our stage. So that's the best sourcing of deals that we have when our own founders reach to us and say, hey, Antonio, you know, I have this company that I think you should look at. Right?
And that's something that you build with time. Right? We've been in the market for 9 years now, and we have great entrepreneurs that every day they sent us deal, and that's a very good source. Nothing amazing about that. I think you do that as well. I think all the other fun that has that reputation do that as well. And in terms of what we're looking for, it's I think team everyone says it is very obvious, right?
But it's the way that we look at teams, I think it's something that we have paid a lot of attention to. Right? So we have tried to make our own kind of like algorithms based on teams. So first, we look at previous experience as entrepreneurs, you know, or in tech startups. That's one of the variables that we input into that equation for so to say. Right?
Mhmm. Then we look at leadership, right, and I say this with careful because I think leadership is a word that has been used for so many different purposes. Right? But when I talk about leadership, we talk about someone that can attract talent that can attract VCs that can attract clients, right, and it's that person that can share their vision and bring people on board with their vision. Right? So we're trying to solve the largest province in Latin America.
That means that unique people that are bold and that can execute. Right? So that's when we say about leadership and then ambition. Right? Like, how ambitious is a team? Right. Because it's pretty easy to build up a company and sell $60,000,000 and walk away with 8,000,000 bucks and live like a queen or a king. Exactly. And that's not what really moves the needle for all It's not what we're looking for. So, yeah, so you're talking about boldness. You're talking about confidence.
You're talking about charisma Pete Leadership. Work together. And leadership, right, and the ability to to execute. And when you think about execute, you said going back to operations in LatAm, right, and building companies, are there some challenges that you guys realize that you have that are harder or different than what people might experience in the US? I think one of the largest challenges, particularly in Mexico is the border of trust.
It's hard to get the trust from people, right, particularly if you think about the financial stem or if you think about anything that has a transaction that, like, the other side can disappear. Right? So I think building that or understanding that it's very Beller upon our way of thinking is like, okay, is this person trustable, or is this company trustable, right?
And that's something that you don't necessarily have in San Francisco, for example, where people just, like, download any app and, like, they try any app. That's not the case in Latin America, and particularly in Mexico. So you need to see, okay, what are the symbolism of trust for this target population? This type of client that I want to have, whom do they trust in, or which companies do they trust in? And, like, how do you relate to that? How do you build that breach.
I think hacking in trust, you need to be careful by using the same words in the same sentence, but it's just like this, how do you speed up this building up of trust? So people can actually test your product. And then it's everything else. Right? Then it's like the product actually works, you know, which is very similar in other parts of the world. But I think the main point is how do you build that trust in order for people to actually use your product and use it more than once?
And that's both B2B and B2C. For sure. That's when understanding the local ecosystem is so Morgan. That first client that is going to provide you with this social proof but your product works and, like, it's not someone that you're gonna run off with money, right, that provides you with either a local fund or contacts you know, or knowing the ecosystem and so on.
And that's why it's so hard from someone from the outside to go out and win the entire market because you need to understand those intricacies. Right. Certain words are triggering for trust and triggering for distrust. Certain phraseology. That's the other point. Timings. Right? So San Francisco, people are very direct. Right? It's either you want the product or you don't want the product, and that's it. Right? Mexico is not that bad. Right?
You need to have, like, several meetings, you know, you need to be able to understand, again, going back to the trust, is that person trustable, or is, you know, this company festival and you build up with meetings or where this the contacts and so on, and timings can take a little bit longer you know, no may not be in there, but it may be a no with a yes.
So it's interesting dynamic that you need to understand and know how to navigate them and know when, you know, you need to move on to the next Flint. Instead of wasting that much time with that particular client. Really interesting. Yes. These cultural differences are gonna play out and terms of go to Morgan. It's gonna play out in terms of conversion rates. It's gonna play out in terms of sales cycles and sales motions.
And understanding the differences there and experimenting around that is critical. Interesting. If you guys started to think at all about web 3 where the whole buzz around here is Yes. Crypto distributed ownership. That sort of thing. No. I would love to have a conversation with you on this because to be honest, we haven't done any investment on that space yet.
We are exploring it as we understand, and we believe it's an amazing infrastructure to solve, like, more efficiently and with higher transparency, social problems, right, but it's not something that we feel like experts or anything like that. So Yeah. Well, no, it's interesting. I mean, I think it'll come soon. I think our healing is very much that, you know, just like in 1994, there was a sector of things in the tech space called internet.
And there were partners at Venture Firms who who were experts in internet, but by 2002, internet was everything. And I think the same thing's gonna happen with what three I agree. Why have you guys chosen those 4 sectors to focus on? What sectors and markets do you think are uniquely strong in LatAm? Interesting. So first, we are lucky that the sectors that we're looking at are large markets, right, and it's not by coincidence.
Of course, that we know that there's like, a large amount of people that need education and the education system in Latin America is broken. The insurance space in Latin America is broken. The logistics space is broken. So you have all these broken industries that they happen to be large, but they happen to have a high impact Right? So we like how they merge the both of them. There are so many people that need access to better financial products.
There are so many people that need access to better quality education. There are so many people that need access to better, you know, help system and so on. And that's what we aim for. And I know it sounds pretty and so on, but actually, those are the largest problems of the population. Right? And that's where they Morgan, and that's where we want to participate in.
And, usually, these industries could be industries that generally are not that sexy to everyone, right, but actually they are huge pain. Right? If you could go back and think in the logistics space, Right? It's completely broken in terms of, like, all the value chain. Right? So how can you make that industry more efficient? And these are industries that are profitable. So we're not talking about, you know, a war against the world in terms of, like, making your business profitable.
We're talking about using technology to actually make better a certain product that serves a large amount of Pete. And that's what we're aiming for him. So these are need to haves. Another way of saying is that these are need to have products, improving markets. Yes. The markets are proven. They are not nice to Pete. Not nice to have. And, you know, and so looking at different things, whether you're taking on market risk, does the customer want it? And then execution risk. We know they want it.
Can we execute and using technology to execute better is what you're saying. And, you know, another way of looking at is we've seen a lot of companies like Uber do well in the US, and then you can take that model to 99. And you don't have to really risk or take on the market risk. Yes. And there is one risk that we do take and not many companies or venture funds feel comfortable taking. So we feel comfortable taking regulatory risk, and we do feel comfortable taking operational risk.
Those are two aspects that we feel comfortable. One's that we understand them, of course. And that's why, again, we're focusing on Hispanic we aim to understand very well what are the regulations behind different things in Mexico and so on. And the reason why we take those risks is because we're investing in the long term, right, we're not investing for the hype of the next 2 years. We're investing to change the landscape in Latin America.
And for that, there are many risks or many regulations that will change, right, and we take consciously those risks. And one of the best investments that we've done, right, they are kind of like, challenging those regulation and trying to change landscape. And the good thing about that is that you have this contrarian mentality on those Flint. Right? So we develop our own conviction. We don't need other fund to say, hey, we're investing in, like, this company. You wanna go with us.
Do you have a partner who focuses on regulation, or do you have a legal team? Or No. No. No. So not specifically Fernando from our partners. He's the one that understands more the fintech regulation particularly. Actually, when they were writing the fintech regulation, he was part of that. Right, when they were writing the sandbox in Mexico and so on. So he has a strong understanding of it and so on. But we complement each other.
Like, if there's anything chiller, for example, then I have more background on that. And then we complement each other a lot in terms of that knowledge. So as a firm, we understand very deeply one particular regulations, and we can complement each other very easily and fast. Right. So it's a a semantic way of talking that you guys are very comfortable with in LatAmas. Things are changing quite a bit.
And you're seeing the investments you make as vehicles to actually help these societies move Morgan you might have to over fund them a little bit because it might take a little bit longer, and you might have to have a lot of legal fees, a lot of lobbyists, but Eventually, things will change, and then you'll be in the full position to take the Flint share of the market when those regulations do change. Exactly. And that's why teams are so Morgan. Right, going back to this.
You need a team that can navigate this and can have the resilience for that. Right? So they don't go and after the first bowl of Morgan going home. Right? That's what we try to understand and identify every time we meet the team. Yeah. And have you seen anything recently around COVID? I mean, obviously, the last 2 years a year and a half has been different for the whole world. Is there some reaction that you've seen in LatAm to COVID that has either changed things or opened things up?
Yep. For sure. So the first thing that excites me a lot about this is that there were a lot of people in Latin American population that were never going to go up the digital trend. Right? They weren't going to use WhatsApp for anything, and they were forced to use WhatsApp, you know, to use digital product So the scope of the population that you can actually reach now is way higher. And that's something that, again, ties with the upside and so on, but particularly on the use.
And once that you have more people using products, you have more data. Right? And with more data, you can build better products and better insights and more customization around it. So that for example, just one case of this is like the insurance space, right? When you have people online or you can actually trace their behavior, you can build a better insurance for them that ties with their own behavior, not with the behavior of you know, at 1,000,000 people that were doing something else.
Right. That filled out some paper 8 years ago or something. Yeah. Exactly. And that's pretty unique. If you think about education, you know, we all have different pace of learning. Right? Perhaps I like learning by boys. Perhaps like learning, you know, by video, perhaps someone likes learning reading or something. Right? So now you can incorporate that and build a very customized product particularly talking about the consumer, you know, but again, it just like goes beyond that.
We're seeing a lot of movement as well on products being built for B2B, particularly Pete. For example, so if you think about, like, how do you optimize logistics for the SMBs? You know, how do you optimize a payment for SMBs? How do you feel like a Shopify that it's actually, you know, useful for the Latin American population that many of them, they manage all their clients through what's So instead of trying to move them out of WhatsApp, how do you incorporate WhatsApp? Mhmm. Right?
And I think those kind of things where are being done right now because we had this acceleration going on. Got it. So in the US, people are largely digitized now, everybody's on zoom, and that was really the big shift is toward the video conferencing. But what you're saying is in LatAm, people were just not digitized as much and so they've all just become newly and completely digitized. So now they're more comfortable in their daily lives using WhatsApp or using Zoom or using, you know, Skype.
And then that then translates to them being comfortable using SAB software in their work during the week. Exactly. Think about an owner of a small shop. Right? You're selling groceries to the neighborhood and then they were doing everything by phone or, you know, like, manually and so on. And now they use either WhatsApp or an app, you know, and, like, they operate their entire business like that. Right?
And there is also this fear of digitization being kind of, like, making formal your business if you get what I mean. Right? Like, there's, like, a lot of informality in Latin American Economy. Right? So the fact that you are online now makes everything Morgan, and that puts a bit of constraint, but, like, COVID just like destroy that barrier because people needed to be online. They couldn't go out. Right? Got it.
So culturally, it felt like it was very impersonal and kind of an insult to be shown a piece of software rather than given the human interface human eye contact, the respect. That's a great way of summarizing. Yes. And so people's digitization was going slowly because they didn't wanna assault Pete. And now that COVID gave you a socially acceptable excuse to move to software, everyone's just gotten used to it, and they realize, hey, it's not that impersonal. It's not that much of an insult.
Exactly. Will do this. And it's actually useful. Right? They're like, oh, you know, now I have this time for me. Right? And so that has been interesting. And the kind of solutions that you can build with that information, with that data. I think that's what we're super excited about to see in Latin America. Right? Yeah. No. I like it. I like it. Well, Antonio, this has been great to chat with you. Thank you so much for your time today, and I look forward to doing a lot more deals with you.
Thank you, Dave. And staying in touch on all these things. It's really fantastic to Pete. Oh, sure. I'm looking forward for that. Have a good rest of the day. At in effect, we believe creating something of true significance starts with seeing what others do not. Send this episode to any friends that may need these insights and framework and feel free to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. NFX Podcast.