Player Storytelling: Seth Joyner

This is a pleasure to be with you, my friend. I'm glad that you're doing well and I'm looking forward to this, uh, this time of chatting with you, my friend. We've been doing this podcast over three years, Set, and I really haven't had a lot of my teammates that I've had the opportunity to be on the podcast, so this is special for me. You've had former teammates on You just had Randall Cunningham something like on on your show, and you've had we were called the Mount rushmore of

players from the Philadelphia Eagles. What was it like having conversations with those guys? Well, It's really interesting because, um, you know, one of the one of the greatest shows that I had, I had Randall, I had Ron Jaworski, had Donovan McNabb, and I had Michael Vick all on

the same show. I mean, I came up with the idea, you know, okay, if quarterback is the most important position on the field, you got you know, the four greatest quarterback icons almost you know, in the present day history of the of the of the organization. So why not have those guys come on. They're all from different errors and have them talk about you know, um, their experiences being the Philadelphia Eagle, their experienced in the league. And let me tell you, my show is supposed to be

an hour. We went an hour in forty five minutes. You know. Once once I got everybody ramped up. I mean, they were just firing away and it was so organic. I just set back and just let them let them go and and it was a phenomenal, phenomenal show. You know, it's interesting you had Michael Vicken when you had a random cutting him. I would dare say today's young quarterbacks

remind me of those two guys. When it comes down to Russell Wilson, Carla Murray, we have the hype right supposedly at one time impediment and then you had the duck flute, as you had John Elways, the mobile guys. So justin Herbert, big old guys at are mobile said, what would have it been like for you playing today? What what I called the quarterback? When we were playing, I thought the most vulnerable defense was a defense plan against a mobile quarterback who not only could run, but

had the ability to throw the ball. Right. Do you think it had been like were you playing during this era? Well, it's it always created a problem because you know, sitting back watching Randall Cunningham grow and coming to his own and then Michael Vick come in and take you know, the lead by storm. Those guys were the genesis of the you know, the triple threat quarterback, and it would have been difficult. I don't know. Sometimes I watched defense today and I wonder, how is it possible that you

can stop these guys? But you know, you know, playing on the buddy, we were a pressure defense and we were all about applying pressure to the quarterback position. Um, the greatest hinders that you have when defensively, when you're trying to stop a guy like Colin Murray, Lamar Jackson, you know, ad Justin Herbert, these guys that can move

around and make plays. Is trying to keep these guys bottled up and contained, and it's it's it's a tough thing to do when you only rushed for because you're always gonna have these gaps, you know, in your defensive line when you got you know, your alignement, and their focus is, you know, getting sacks, getting sacks, getting sacked, you know, so tell sometimes they lose the discipline of laying integrity and making sure that they keep the quarterback

in the pocket. And these quarterbacks are smart enough to understand the game and know now that you know, hey, when I read you know man and man in passing situations, when the play breaks down, everybody's got their backs turn. Whether you're single high, too high safety, you know, those safeties are thirty yards deep, so I'm gonna pick up fift twenty yards before the defense can't even react. And they're smart enough to understand it. When I read zone

pre snap that I'm scrambling to buy time. I'm not trying to cross the line of scrimmage and get yards I'm trying to scramble to buy time for my guys that uncover and find a hole where I can actually complete complete passes. So it's a tough task today, you know, no doubt, you know me playing in in today's NFL or US playing defensively in today's version of offensive football

would have been a major, major challenge. And that's what I was thinking, because the Patrick Mahomes, de Lamar Jackson, these guys Cassette, they will wear out a pass rush. So just intriguing to see how we would have played in this era. But as you were doing your interview with your guys, what were the stories like when you were talking to Ron Jaworski and and Randall and and

Michael those guys. It was really interesting in this because you had Randall was drafted um I think a year or two before me, and he was drafted to be the Arab parent to Ron Jaworski, And a lot of people don't know my last year, Ron was my first year. Rather Ron was on the team. He um was the first second down quarterback, but he was trying to implement Randall n because the plan was the following year Randall was going to be the starting quarterback and they were

gonna move on from Jaws. Jaws would play first and second down, but he would put Randall in the game and on third down. I mean, this happened all year long. It was the craziest thing that you'd ever want to see. So you knew that Ron felt some type of way about that, you know, because he wants to stay on the field and convert the third down. But the Randall comes on and more times than not, he was gonna run and he was gonna scramble, you know, for a

first down. So the dynamic, you know, of those two quarterbacks and what they went through in six was amazing to me because under normal circumstances, you know, human nature would say that that Ron would still feel some type of way about that situation, and how Randall supplanted him.

And then and then you fast forward to Donovan McNabb and Donovan McNabb, you know, having Michael fit come in after you know, his off the field issues, and it's been documented that Andy Reid and Jeffrey Lourie and Day and Joe banner Um the brain stress of the Philadelphia was actually when they had a conversation with Donovan about bringing in Michael and then how a couple of years later, the same thing transpired where Donovan's you know, play begin

to wane a little bit. He began to have some issues and Michael had an opportunity to play, and the next thing, you know, Donovan gets traded to the Washington you know, football team, and now Michael Vick is now

the starting quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles. I mean, it was just it was a phenomenal um interview because of those dynamics and then to be able to see the respect that all four those guys, even through all of that, still half for each other, and how they talked about each other, and you know, Randall talked about how Jaws helped him and and and and Michael talked about how you know, Donovan feeling comfortable enough to to okay him

coming you know, getting a second chance with the Philadelphia Eagles. And then that whole transition of how Randall replaced Jaws and how Michael Vick replaced Donovan um to be able to have him on and and and see the reverence that they you know, still have for each other. You know, it was a great thing. How much did you guys sense as teammates. That's some the overtones of possibly prejudices of an African American quarterback replacing a Caucasian brother, Ron Jaworski.

Did you guys feel any of that, Oh, you could feel it was probable in the city, um, not only among the fans, because you gotta remember Ron Zawarski actually quarterback. You know, this this Eagle's franchise, you know, to their first modern day Super Bowl. So there was a major reverence in the city of Philadelphia for for Ron Jaworski, even though you know, his his his skills had erode it and you know Randall was was gonna be the

new guy when the shift was made. Among the fans, among the media, and even some of the guys on the team felt like, you know, that wasn't the move to be made, that was you know, so there was some animosity there. But you know, it was a situation where the Eagles, along with the Cardinals at that time, you know, resided in the basement of the NFC East. There was a turnover on the roster, so it wasn't just a quarterback position, but it was across the board.

But it was even magnified that much more when you had, you know, a Caucasian quarterback whom the city and the media revered being replaced by a scrambling African America and quarterback. And it was still not you know, the politically correct thing at that time. You know that African American quarterbacks would take over those types of positions and and it wasn't believed that they could flourish in those in those situations.

So it also gives us probably the mindset behind coach Buddy running right, because some coaches would have been pressured not do this. So tell me about Buddy. What what was your first experience with coach Buddy Ryan. You know, listen, I thought the guy was crazy. Um, I'm a young guy. You know when I got drafted by the Eagles and I was twenty years old. I was the youngest player

in the NFL. I wasn't even legal when I got drafted. Um. You know, you get the training camp and you know, Buddy is just custing to everybody out and you know, I had never experienced that that type of intensity and that type of workload, you know, all of my years

of playing football. Um, as I look back at it now in retrospect, I understand it wholeheartedly because what he was doing is he was trying to figure out just like when he came to Arizona that first training camp was was hell, you know, and what he was trying to figure out, Okay, who wants to be here and who's willing to sacrifice and who's willing to put in

the work to be here? Because the guys that don't want to do the work and the guys that don't want to sacrifice, you know, I gotta get those guys out of here because in order for me to change the culture, I've got to brand guys that are gonna buy in to what it is that I'm trying to do. And that's what it was like on a daily basis, on a daily basis, and for the young guys, because I was drafted by him. For the young guys, you had to you had to write of passes that you

had to get through. I didn't even think he knew my name because for two years he never called me by my name. I was fifty nine. How did your teammates help twenty years old a rookie? How was it in the locker room? What he may help you get through it? Oh? Yeah, well I mean, listen, there was a lot of transition. There was a lot of animosity, you know, when I got there. We we drafted four

linebackers that year in the draft. Um, there was another seven or eight veterans that were excuse me, that were on the roster. Um. I had some guys telling me to go right when I should have been going left, you know. But I was fortunate enough to have one guy, um, one veteran named Gary Cole. You know, he took all the young guys under his wing, and one day, you know, he made it pretty clear. He was like, you know, you guys, don't think all of y'all gonna make the team.

You know, a rookies, you know, you you think that just because you're drafted that you're gonna make the team. You know, we we had no idea what the process was like. So he says, not all of you guys are gonna make the team, and I'm like, what are you talking about? You know, we were all drafted. He was like, listen, there are there are seven or other eight guys here who have NFL experience. You know the

majority of those guys gonna play. We're gonna keep you know, too deep at each position, but I understand that there's gonna be some some spots on this roster for some of you guys that can play special teams. And it dawned on me at that point in time that that is how I was going to make the team, you know, So I focused my attention. Yeah, I was still studying. I was still preparing because I knew I had to learn the defense even though I wasn't getting a lot

of reps at the linebacker position. But what I quickly realize is that, you know what, if I can show them the type of player that I can be on special teams, somehow that might translate in their minds that at some point in time down the road an opportunity might present it so for me to show them what type of linebacker I could be, you know, and sometimes as young guys, that's how you have to you have

to approach it. So I'm I'm forever in debt, you know, to Gary for not only teaching us how to be professionals, because he said, you know, if you're gonna be a professional, this is what you do. This is where you go. This way you don't go. This is what you do, is what you don't think this is how you study, This is how you prepare. I mean, he gave us all the tools that was necessary and he mentored us

along the way. Um, but I'm forever grateful that I had a guy like that, and I'm forever grateful, you know, for the opportunity to be able to showcase what I could do special teams wise, because had he not and he not shed a light on those things for us, you know, I wouldn't never, you know, been able to enjoy a thirteen year career. I had no idea. You mentioned Gary Cobb, and he's worked obviously with the Legends community what we're doing this podcast. When I was thinking

about you, I said Seth was a five too. I was thinking of a way to put this a five tool linebacker. What are the five tools I was I was referencing. You can rush the passer, you can play the run, You're very good in coverage, you can intercept the ball. In the fifth thing, you can play special teams. And now you bring that up that Yarry mentor you guys telling you guys, bring it to your attention. Special teams will be the way that you're able to get

on board. And once you were on board. As we said, the rest is history. Here's another question I would ask you, said, what was it like coming from Philadelphia and Buddy bringing what I what I called some of his tested troops to Arizona? What was that like? And what was it like coming into a culture where we hadn't won a lot? But you knew what Buddy was capable of? What was that like? Well, it wasn't only the fact that you know, I knew what you know, what Buddy could do, and

I knew what he was like. But we played against you guys twice a year, every year, every year, um, and it was never a situation all the years that we you know that playing against you guys all my years in the league wasn't a situation. And you guys didn't have talent. It was trying to figure out, Okay, why is it that they can't that they can't win? So the decision to come was twofold that I know

that they got talent. And second of all, I know I've seen Buddy make the trans the trans the transformation, and I believe that he could, you know, do something special with the talent that that's there. It was just you know, it was. It was a good move. It was not only a good career move, a good financial move, but it was also an opportunity to try to change,

to do something special. I'll never forget you, Clyde Simmons and the late uh roommate of mine, Andre Water, and just the personality and what you guys brought the leadership. Hopefully I'll hold back tears because said you didn't know. But so Buddy has got the job after my uh my third year. So going to my fourth year, I was a restrictive free agent and my wife was getting her NBA at the University of Illinois, and I was

considering whether I was gonna go back to Arizona. So I told my wife, I said, I don't think I'm going back the Arizona Once Buddy got the job, I said, because I heard Buddy wasn't a player's coach. Well that's not true at all. As you know, I thought I was gonna get that over on my wife, and but it turned out she says, what are you talking about? And she you know how wives, I asked questions, probing questions,

and what it was. I was afraid, I really, I really wasn't sure that I could play in the system where the cornerback was on the island. So Man, we my wife and I prayed and we said, well, are we sensed to go back to Arizona. And I'll never forget once I signed. This is when I found out the power of a coach and a coach's belief in a person. As soon as I went back and I signed back, the first person I saw was Rob Ryan

rexas Uh, one of the twins right to Ron. Rob put his arms around me Set when I was in the weight room, came up to me. He says, in this you will make All Pro You'll lead the league in interceptions, You'll make the Pro Bowl. This defense is perfectly suited for you because I saw you do it at Southern University. And I'm telling you Set, like I said, I'm holding it in man, because that was a game changer.

And that's when I learned the power of coaches speaking into players and realizing sometimes when players don't know what they're capable of doing, for the coast to verbalize it and no doubt about it. Man. That training camp, Uh, my trainer, as you know, Mac Newton. It was a game change changed my life and I was obviously the first year I made the Pro Bowl, first year I led the leading interceptions, first year I made All Pro. But it was because of your leadership. And I'll never forget.

I want to put on this podcast. You understood, you're in cloude. Understood the connection of not just on the field, but off the field. Because when you guys came in, you brought us together as a defense. We were even at your house and I say, this is a joke, and I never forget. You forget, man, we're at so we're we're at your house. You remember this, and you had a big corn bread and and I never forget. So everybody, all the defense out and you're then somewhere.

We're all sitting around and I went in the kitchen, and man, I saw that corn bread was fresh. Nobody had tested nobody in the kitchen. I look around and I love the inside of the corn bread. Right, So I go here, I cut the center out, eat it, come back and sit down with the rest of the defense. Everybody joking. Let's day you. Let's how I know, you get know going to kitchen, you come back out the kitchen with the pen in your head. We're just asides.

The corners of the corn bread. Man at the world, ask it, who ain't who ain't the center of the corn bread? I mean, man, I was so nervous, and I'm like, oh, man, I gotta I gotta show my code. Man a second, ready kill somebody. Man. But but it really, when I think back, those were moments that helped defense has become great. It's not just the excellent ols and not just the coaching, but it's the camaraderie and players getting to know each other on and off the field.

And I thought you were and Clyde did a tremendous job doing that. Why was that important to you? It was important because listen, we we learned it in Philadelphia, you know. I mean we we have one day week, you know where we got together as a defense okay,

and we got together, we went to dinner. And when dinner was over, you know, the guys that were married, the guys that you know, they went their way, they went home, and the guys that was gonna go out and you know, while out, they were gonna go out and do their thing. But it was important, and but

it instilled in us, you know early on. You know, it's hard for a team or a unit to be successful if you don't know each other, because if you don't know each other and you and you don't care enough about each other, when you get tired and the grind gets gone, you know, then it becomes about you. But when you're a unit and you're a brotherhood and you look at that guy next to you and you're tired and you know he's tired, then it becomes bigger

than just you. You're not playing just for yourself. You're playing for that guy is next to you. And you know that when you go in the film study on Monday morning that thean this guy don't lie and everything is right there for every about to see. And the accountability. The coaches are gonna hold you accountable, but you hold each other accountable as teammates. So coming there, yeah, we want.

I wanted to be successful, you know so, and and you know, throughout the first couple of weeks, I didn't see you know that camaraderie. So I'm like, okay, let's do something to try to bring the entire team together. So I'm like, okay, let's do a fish fry at the house and bring all the guys together and try to figure out a way where, you know, because we were new to y'all, to y'all's team, and I'm trying to get to know a new and I'm trying to get to know Eric Hill, and I'm trying to get

to know Eric Swan. I'm trying to get to know all these guys because if I don't get to know them and they don't get to know me, then how do we create the camaraderie that's necessary in order for us to win. When you're trying to build a team and you're trying to get buy in, if everybody is not in it for each other, you have no shot whatsoever it went. You know, one of the things about

Synergy said is those times together. I didn't understand that, and that's what you guys modeled and which was so important that it really set the foundation for that when we were able to finally go in and upset the college boys in the division around and lose close game to Minnesota. But it was just that foundation that you guys brought as relates to not just the defense, just the mentality of playing and understanding how important it was that it wasn't just on the field, but you modeled

how important it was to be together. One thing we've experienced, we've lost what we call a legend that played with both of us, Qualmi Lasseter, losing Qualmi around last year around this time. Still continue to keep Eric in the family up in prayer. But you also while playing lost the teammate while playing with them, Jerome Brown. What what

is that like? And how do how have you processed those things while a player, a teammate, losing Jerome Brown and now losing a legend like our fellow teammate Kwamie last age you I don't think you ever process it in this because you know, you know, I I get I still get choked up, man, because for me, not only did I lose Jerome, but I lost Andre Waters, I lost West Hopkins, and I lost Reggie White. You know,

you take it beyond that. You know I was with Junior say a week before you know, we lost him. We lost Dave Durrison. I mean, there's so many guys that we've lost, and then you know it hit home again. And I was just on this morning on a zoom call. This morning, I'm doing initiative with the American Heart Association UM and they've got their heartball coming up and they had the big fundraise and we were talking about it this morning, m about heart disease and heart health and

things of that nature. And and and Brad ses Matt actually, um you know, Brad, he actually um m c the deal. So we were doing a Q and A and we were talking about Kwami and never, you never deal with it, you never process it because, um you know, last year when Kwamie passed away, I was actually in Philly working and we were doing the post game show and I got a text and it was almost like I needed a moment just to step off the set because I

was in total shop. Um. So you never and when you when I'm talking about Kwami, it's like, you know, Kwamie got drafted, you know, I think the year after I got the Arizona, you know, so he was like one of those guys where that this is my this is my baby brother man. I mean, it's the guy that I helped raise up in the game. And with Jerome,

it was the same exact way. Jerome came in two years after I got the Philadelphia, you know, and I can remember and Jerome was supremely talented, you know, supremely talented mean, when you're in college, you can get away without not working out and not preparing and whatnot. And Jerome began to, you know, take on some injuries, and I you know, started having a conversation. I'm like, man, you got to get yourself you know, you gotta get

in shape. You gotta get yourself prepared. And he had just turned the corner and is I mean I still have a video and one of my old phones where he is actually bicycling. You know, he got on this outfit, you know, just cycling outfit. He's like, yeah, I'm getting in shape. I just want you to know I'm getting ready. And in a matter of weeks, man, he was gone.

And then you got a guy like Kwami who had a successful career and had this Kwami last of the foundation that was doing work with um leukemia because one of his kids have it. And it's like, you know, and all of a sudden, you know, and I didn't know, but he had he knew he had a heart issue, and he made a decision to make the lifestyle changes. And one day he's like, oh, I don't even need anymore. I'm a vegan. I'm like, what you talk about, man, you know, but we don't talk about stuff like that,

you know, and and and the gain. In the world of football, we're bred to show no pain and show no weakness, you know. So he's not sharing with us that that's what's going on. I find out afterwards, you know, that he really needed a pace maker. But he made the decision that, you know what, my life is at guy's hands on to change some things. I'm gonna change how I eat, I'm gonna change how I work out. He was in the yoga, he was in the you know,

getting himself in shape. And when you looked at Kwamie, he was the picture of health. You would have never thought that anything was wrong. And all of a sudden he has a massive heart attack and he's gone at forty nine years old. You never process that. You never get over. I never get on. I mean, I'm fighting back the emotions of all of these guys that are no longer with us anymore, because it's like, how can

they be gone? How can I lose so many brethren in the game, you know, to whatever the issues have been, How could they be gone? You know? But you know, when the man stairs calls you home, you're going home. It is what it is. Kwamie is one of the wisest guys I've ever been around in my life, and just it's it's with and his wisdom. It with always included wisdom. And I mean any time I've seen him, it's literally like I'm seeing my brother and like we

we've seen each other every day. How important is it said for us two? I don't know if I use the word check encourage each other when we do see each other, how you doing? How you really doing? Is there anything that you're going through that we need to know? In other words, how would you help legends better help each other when we do come together? Well, I mean listen that there has to be a mind shift, and you know it's already it's underway, but it's it's still

got a long way to go. The mind shift has to be is that you know what I'm your brother, and there's nothing that you're going through that I won't be here for you for. Okay, a lot of us think that sometimes when we're going through things that we have to we have to travel this road on our own, because, like I said, we've been bred to show no pain, to show no weakness. You know, we're like Superman, We'll bleed on the inside. We don't ever let you see

it on the outside. And that's detrimental. Tools that's detrimental to all of these guys, you know that we're talking about, how do we have those conversations without feeling this sense of weakness? How do we get to a point where we understand and know that we're not in this life you know, by ourselves, we're not in this life alone, not only as football players, but as human beings, you know, as men of God. We're not in this walk alone,

you know. And until we come to the realization and understand that, you know, then that the change and the shift doesn't happen. So when we see each other, not only is it hey man, how you doing? I remember what it was like back in the day. Hey man, how you doing? You know, how are you really doing? Is there any sing that I can do for you? And you know, is there anything you want to talk about? You know, is there anything that we can converse about?

You know, how's your family? How's your wife? How's your kids? You know? You know, dare I say, you know, what's your financial situation? Like, you know, can I be of assistance to you in any way, and until we can get there, you know, then we're gonna continue to have

some problems, but that's what needs to happen. And then small minute steps we're starting to get there, but it needs to get there faster because you know, you're talking about lives hanging in the balance, and they're also just through the league and through the Players Association, player care their lifelines, So there are numbers. Sometimes guys may not feel comfortable and they feel better with being able to

pick up the phone and call somebody. So anybody is listening the resources that available to help if a person is struggling. Here's a quick question set what advice would you give current players who in the locker room with guys? Because you mentioned your epiphany came when you turned twenty eight years old. You came into the league at twenty, so that's eight years later. We'll cause your epiphany, and

what advice do you have to recurrent guys? Well, listen to the greatest advice is that when you come to the league, you know, whether you're twenty like myself two years old, is that you know you really don't know anything.

You just don't you're still a child. You know. And the tough part about you know, being an NFL player, you know, the lions share of these young guys who come into the league that step out of poverty into um, you know, wealth right out right out the gate, is that there's a dynamic shift that happens in your family structure, um because you come from poverty. And I like it.

I liken it to this. You know, you become your mother's husband, your father's brother, and your siblings dad, you know, and you're thrust into you're thrust into a role that you're not prepared for. And then at the other end of the spectrum, you got a financial guy, you got an agent, and these guys are working for you, you know, and some of them are pure in their intentions and

some of them aren't. Some of them listen, it's all about the commission, you know, and then you know, you might find some guys that that genuinely care about you. Educate yourself on as many as many things as you possibly can do. Not hire an agent that's not teaching you and telling you what the process is, so that you know when he goes in and to negotiate for

you what's being said and what's being done. Don't hire someone to manage your money that's not willing to teach you along the way, because when your career is over and you get to the end, if his intentions aren't pure, when the commissionable income for him stops, because now the salary stops for you, that relationship now ends, and now you're stuck holding you know, the ransom, the ransom share of what you earn with no knowledge about how to manage it and what to do with and where to

put it, and how to grow it and how to share it, you know, so that education pieces like I see so many guys they come in at twenty one years old and they retired thirty one years old, and that's ten years of life and they haven't grown whatsoever, you know, and then life has to beat them up in everywhere it manages imaginable for them to you know, get to where they need to be, you need to continue to grow emotionally, intellectually, more importantly spiritually along the

way so that by the time you're done, okay, your identity is not wrapped up in football, but your identity is wrapped up in something bigger than than football, and you're able to walk away from the game without any regrets and have no feelings and no ill will towards the game about you know what you didn't get out of the game, and what the and doesn't give you anymore because the game only owes you the years that you play. When you're done, you're done and and and

that's the fact. So how do you begin to educate guys um to better themselves and everywhere imaginable as they go along? The end goal isn't the money, you know, the end goal is your growth and what you're able to do with the money, not only for your family, but in a in a philanthropic type of way after

you're done. Saith, you wrote a book, did you? You didn't write a book, but I got a whole bunch of information and a whole bunch of I'm serious about that because it goes back to what you mentioned at a light to you more, I don't love you mentioned it does for it? But what was that light? Why? Why? At age? How did you know this? Well? Listen and there I'm an avid reader. I wish I could turn my turn my my laptop round and show you the books that I have and I read all the time.

And is always that way. Um, it really wasn't always that way. I don't know what got me into reading,

but I love to read. So I was reading this book and the it's called Mindset, and it talks about a myriad of things, you know, and I was having some going through some things with my son, and someone recommended the book, and the author talked about, um, the development of the mind and how as parents we need to be patient with our kids because there's a segment of our brain that doesn't develop until we're like two years old, maybe even twenty three years old, where the

things that we're telling our kids they can't even they hear it, but they can't even receive, let alone apply it. So then it took me back to, you know, when I was, when I was young, when I was twenty years ago. I can remember picking up the phone one day and calling my mom. I was like Mom, thanks, She's like, boy, thanks for what I said. Thanks for not letting me hang out at Charlie's house because you know, he smoked weed and his mom was never home. Thank

you for you know, giving me a curfew. Thank you for having you know, for making me go to church every Sunday. Thank you you know, for having your finger on the pulse of everything that was going on in my life. Because had you not done that, I would never be able to I would never I wouldn't be where I am today. Okay, So when you talk about that light, it's about you know, your growth and how you come to realization of the things you know that are going on in your life and in your world.

I can't say that it was any one thing, but I do know by the time, you know, I was twenty eight years old, twenty nine years old. You know, even though you know I was blessed to live my dream, there were some things going on in my life that you know that everybody didn't see. And wasn't you know, a party too, But life was beating me up man. I mean I was divorced and you know, there was all kinds of things that were going on in my life.

Um that contributed to the light coming on. And and you know, how do you share those moments and how do you get people to understand that those moments are real, that those moments are coming In the moment of those moments, what do you do? How do you deal? How do you make the ships, how do you make those changes in your life. The final part of one cover is the set join the show. Now tell me about that. How did you start a podcast and you're still doing

work back in Philadelphia with TV. Well, so it started after I retired. I wanted to. I felt like I could go into broadcasting because of, you know, my knowledge of the game. So the whole first year of the NFL Network was on the air. I was on air, you know, and I was hard. I was terribed. Listen.

There's no fans or buts about it, you know, because there's a there's a market difference in theres between you know, standing and doing an interview with you know, a reporter at your locker and you being on camera and that red light comes on and you know there's a couple of million people out there watching you. You know, it's it's a massive difference. So that first year went by and I actually hated I hated. I did it for a whole year, but I hated it. I hated the

business of it. I hated you know, everything about it, and I really didn't want to be in broadcasting anymore. Um. It just so happened that an opportunity presented itself for me. Um an agent called me when Donovan was leaving Fox. This guy wanted to throw my name into the hat for the job. Well, I didn't get it, and he connected me with NBC Sports or comcasts in Philadelphia, and

then I was like, okay, I'll try it. I'm you know, I know the business is like, but I was ready at that time to actually do it, and I really over the years, I've gotten pretty good at it. So what I wanted to do is like, I want to do my own podcast. It's one thing to do a show directors in your ibat telling you, you know, we're gonna talk about this, We're gonna go to break here,

you know, cut you know all of that. I wanted to do a show that was mine, that I could control, that I could talk about what I wanted to, that I could bring my guests on, that I could talk about all the things in the game that I wanted to talk to that time wouldn't allow me to do. And my duties on the pre and post game for NBC Sports Philly for the Eagles. Two years ago, I actually started my own podcast. It didn't grow. The season was over. I made the mistake of stopping as soon

as the season was over. You know, so you can't do that. If you're gonna do a podcast, you gotta do a podcast every week because people want the content, they want the information. So I decided this offseason, in the midst of the pandemic, I decided, Okay, I'm gonna do a podcast. Okay. The first couple of shows I had on Charles Barkley, you know, I had people like that. And then when this Zoom thing hit, I turned to my team, I'm like, we got to do zoom. That's

the way to go, you know. So then we started to do the Zoom and realizing that I could have multiple people on at at at the same time. You know, one of my first Zoom shows was the show where I had the four quarterbacks on. So I had the four quarterbacks on, I had Harold Carmichael, Who's just who's going into the Hall of Fame this year, Mike, That's where should we get that out? Harold cale Michael? Right,

So I had those I had, you know. So my thing was, Okay, I want to get the top players at every position on the podcast, um and do a show and have those guys interact and because they're from different eras and um, and that was the genesis of you know. So now UM, I do it every Tuesday from seven thirty, seven thirty to eight thirty and on YouTube Facebook Live. UM. You know, we do giveaways. And I'm about to implement you know, a chalk talk segment into it, you know, in the next couple of weeks.

And I think that you know, while it's it's good to you know service you know the Philly market because I work in that market, in order for me to really make this thing grow, I think I'm gonna have to expand it and start talking more overall, NFL said, this has been outstanding, the synergy here and and listening to you man, and let's continue to get the word out for guys to genuinely when we see each other, connect and ask questions and even make sure we keep

on our person that number for the lifeline because sometimes just guys being able to call somebody even if they don't know who they are, because they may not feel comfortable telling us everything right and listen, there are a lot of resources that are available to retire players, um, you know, and you know the PA alumni associations, you know, they try to do the best job that they can.

The legend they try to do the best job they can to get that information out, but sometimes the information just doesn't get out, you know, and sometimes you know, these guys are suffering through things and they're like nobody cares. You know, there's there's not a voice. You know too, that there's not an ear from my voice, there's not

a shoulder for me lean on. You know. We've got to figure out a way, you know, to ensure that every single guy who is an NFL Brethren that he understands and knows what these resources are and where they are and how to access it. You know, because even I listen, I've been, I've been. This is my twenty first year of retirement and news and I'm still learning and figuring out what resources are available to me, you know, and how my life can be enhanced by some of

these resources. So for some of these guys who who are experiencing you know, helplessness and hopelessness, you know, there is hope that is available, but if they don't know about it, they can't access it, they can't hear in this situation around, they can't get the help that they need. And we need to figure out a better way of getting this information to all of these guys so that you know, so that they can turn their lives around and have you know, productive lives and and extend their

their lives from a health perspective as well. And one of the things Tracy Pearlman, Troy Vincent and the entire Legends directors and coordinators and these guys throughout the region. So just a matter of reaching out that this has been great. This has been fantastic, Thanks for joining us, and the best is yet to come. Man, you got my friend. Anytime. This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback or request the topic for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at nfl dot com.