Legends in the League Office

Orleans Saints. That's right, he brought the Super Bowl home to my hometown. He also was outstar in a Super Bowl forty four commercial by his dad at Leroy. He is a player engagement manager in the league office. Our second penelt fullback Darrell Young, not related. I'm starting to wonder if you have to be young in order to work in the league office. He also engagement player relations manager. Lastly, we have defensive lineman Darrell Campbell, d C and associate

producer at NFL Films. Gentlemen, I am so excited to have you on. Welcome than you. Let's die right in on the NFL Legends Podcast. To focus with guests former players has always centered around their journey. Probably the most critical point along everyone's path has been dealing with transition. And if you play in the National Football League or have them played, you will transition, and as you guys know,

not always when you're ready. Can each of you talk a little bit about your transition from the gridiron to the league office? And that's what the first question? What was it like? And how did you get into the league office? But first talk about the transition from the league. Well, well, I'll take I'll take the range first. It was tough for me. First off, I got injured, you know, uh my my first time getting seriously injured. I fractured a

vertebrae and I bounced back. I came back the next year, and the next very next year, I told my knee up bad, A c L L C L hand me off the bone and I tried to bounce back, but I couldn't. It was the first time I truly felt like my body failed me and my mind couldn't push me through it. And even though I had thought about how I was going to transition and what I was going to do after my playing experience, it still was tough because mentally I thought I could do it. I

just knew I could do it. I had done it so many other times before. And now it's transitioning into the league office, and and it wasn't that smooth of it. I'm just going to work with the league. I I did job shadows, I did internships. I was going to different places trying to figure it out what specifically, where specifically I would land. And I took advantage of the Legends Development program and was fortunate to meet the rail and several others in the League office. But I landed

that position, and it's no looking back. So I remember a song by the name of the late artists Prince. He had the songs uh that Usama that said when doves cried, When did that tear drop fall from your eye? When you knew it was over? It does criss right there. I love it, you know what, I knew it was over. And it just so happened that, uh, my dad passed away shortly after uh after my my injury. He was he was able to see my last game out in Oakland at the Coliseum and and he was there with

me along with along with my my family. We we all, we all, we we had those tears, but we knew we were going to come back. And guess what. My father passed away the next year, you know, during my recovery, and then my daughter was born and I said, wow, my my life isn't just football anymore. More. The priority is now, Hey, let me let me show this baby girl, my baby girl. Are you that that I'm able to do much more than just play football? And how how

is she going to see me? How? How is she gonna see that legacy that I'm going to leave behind that my dad left for me and left some huge shoes to feel. As you all saw in that commercial, it was that was that tier right there. It was. It was a tear of joy having a baby girl, but it was also you know, those tears are sorrow being that, hey, I'm no longer able to play this game, which we know eventually what happened most times sooner than later for others. How about you, Darrell, What was it

like what your transition from a grid arm? Oh? Man, it was, uh, it was tough. You know. The transition really started for me in the Redskins. Well, excuse me. I was doing an internship with under Armor and the Redskins. I went into Jay's office and said, Hey, what are you gonna do. I know you don't value fullbacks right now, but you know that's where I've been my career, so you know that's what I want to do. And it's said. He looked me in my eyes and said, we're not

gonna bring you back. We're gonna allow you to to try free agency, and uh, you know, be ready if we do bring it back. And I said, Jy, I've been here in this business long enough to know that you're not gonna bring me back, so thank you for the opportunity in the last seven years. Fast forward, you know, the next year I signed in UH Chicago for a short Stanton in Carolina and then UH Carolina drafted a

fullback and he's still on the roster now. But I remember going into the room and they said, hey, you're gonna be out starting fullback while I was out looking for places come back. An hour later, they cut me and I said, you know what, I'm done with this. So that day I reached out to Stephen Bone, who was in the league office now, and I said, Hey, that opportunity that you were speaking on, that you spoke so highly on is that's still available and that was

his Legends Development internship. I applied driving back on that day. Literally by the time I got in Maryland, I had submitted my resume driving and uh, typing up a resume. I don't encourage it, but I did it. Um submitted that and three weeks later, you know, got to call that. You know, I was chosen for the second round of the interviews, so I had a decision to make. San Francisco called me. Kyle Uschek got hurt. I was on

my way to the airport. John Lynch called me and said, you know what, we had a player could hurt today be ready for next week. And I said, with all due respect, Mr Lynch, I'm done. So that day the League office. The next day, the League Office offered me the internship, and that was part of it. It was one of the hardest things I've ever done. And you know, talking about crying man, that was in the car Boo who and when the rage kids bringing me back, man.

But that was the first time in my life where I felt like I wasn't on it outside of being cut my first year being on practice squad. But you know, I was ended up coming back and being a starter for six years after that, so that that that was part of the transition. It was hard. It's still hard thinking about it, knowing that I think I still can play, and even got a call that next season Atlanta wanted to bring me in for workout in Tennessee, and uh, I just said, you know what, I'm gonna go with

the career now the experience is over. It's interesting, Durrell, you use the word the first time you realize you are not wanted versus Okay, my career may be ended. But from that psychological standpoint, you said not wanted, how did you reconcile that, Because there's a different between Okay, I know I played. Uh I see the right on the wall. Uh No one's gonna offer me a job. It's a whole different psychology from the legend a former player.

When you say I wasn't wanted, how did you surmise that? Honestly, I've been playing football since I was six years old. It was you know, no one ever tells you you're done playing, and that's the hardest piece. So dealing with that mindset and not feeling wanted, I had to come to reality that, you know what, I had my daughter, she was three. I had to be in a position where I had to take care of my family at that time. So that's what encouraged me to be a

better person each and every day. But it was the hardest thing I've ever been through in my life. Talking about crying, talking about finances, like all the things that you think about. It was. It was. It was different, you know, And it's something that I still think about now. And when players talk about their transition, them like, I know, I get it. I don't want to lecture, but this is how I dealt with it. So it was. It's

one of the hardest things. And I'm glad to have guys like Osama and d C on this on this uh, on this podcast with me to to to tell those stories and to to uh just look back and say, you know what, we had the opportunities to do what we did, and you know what's next. So no, what about for you, d C? Every time I'm on the podcast or you and I converse, it sounds like you on top of the world. Tell us about your transition.

I love your enthusiasm. The biggest reason for the enthusiasm and this is because I get to, uh, you know, be amongst people like just like Darrell said, him and Usama and you know, honestly, even you and everybody on this podcast. I I derive a great deal of my energy from the team. When I played, I was a

team guy. Was the Philly one of the bunch. I was the one that you know, people look to me and say, yo, d C, like you're gonna be right when the season is over, because you know, you're, yeah, your boys with your two we come back because you know, everybody disperses and goes the separate war years after a season. And you know, for me, my journey was was one where um, how can I put it? It was it was It was a great deal of scratching and clawing.

Came into the league No. Three toward my A c L the week before the draft, was slotted to be a second third round draft pick, and uh, you know, God bless me um by, you know, having Lovey Smith come in um with Chicago um and his training staff and and and and and the organization rehab me on their own time. And then it was just six years in the league of scratching and clawing, you know, shuffling from the practice squad rosters to the act of roster

and we all know what this business is like. But you know, I, I truly am thankful to God for the opportunity's and the teammates that you know, I've I've had, you know, the opportunity to be around. My last stint in the league was two thousand nine. Got released in Baltimore early on in that season, picked up in Canada, went a great Cup with Mark Trustman's Montreal Alouettes, and then again I had to deal with you know, like you said, d why that that feeling of not being

wanted anymore? Um? But the mental let down, I guess from from my perspective, was just that what do I do now? Because what do I chase? You know what I mean? The passion I had for the game of football is still in me. I still want to continue playing, but it just kind of seems like, you know, my number is up. UM. I called my defensive line coach in Montreal, Michael Sinclair's a longtime great NFL defensive end for Seattle and a bunch of other teams, and um,

he told me something really profound. He said, d C, You've always taken care of this game. And somebody told me this, if you take care of the game, the game will take care of you. Um, I suggest that you reach out to UH to coach trustman and see if there's UH if there might be an opportunity through people he knows or you know, I'll be looking on on on for your I'll be looking out for you on my behalf as well. So I wrote him a long email. I'm talking about pages long, all types of

stuff in there. Man. I probably was just crying with words, you know what I mean. And then uh, you know Mark Mark hit me back and he said, hey, listen, I have a friend and this is the this is the cool thing about networking and being around brothers like you know, Sama and d Y. You know what I mean. When when you when you when you're part of a team, you know, he said, listen, I got a good friend of mine at NFL Films. His name is Greg Cosel. I know you're an exo guy. You know you're also

a tech guy. Used to cut all the highlights and stuff for the team while I was playing in Montreal. It was I've always had an affinity and a knack for technology, And he said, listen. You know I was looking like Kimbo slow ex back then. Man, I had like a face thro I mean that went from the beard all the way around the head. And I mean you could you could just see my eyes. It was crazy. Um and uh he said, you know, I would suggest, you know, doctoring up your appearance. UM. Uh, going to

you know, NFL films with the shoot suit jacket. Talked to my friend and UM, you know, see what happens. I'm not promised you anything, um, but just see what happened. So I came in. The first person I met in the lower level UH atrium at the front door was Steve Sable Um, and he came out. He said, hey, listen, are you here for to to talk to someone? And say, yeah, I'm here to speak with Greg co Sell for NFL matchup.

He said, h we'll, we'll, We'll get around to him and in the second just come come roll with me. So I'm rolling around films with Steve saying when he's just showing giving me a tour. We eventually end up in Greg's Greg's office. Greg's watching all twenty two tape like he all he does. Legs kicked up on the desk, and um, he's picking my my my brain about knowledge. And you know, one hour turned the two and it

seemed to be having a good time. And the next thing, you know, you know, a couple of weeks later, says, hey, I want you to come in as a seasonal and learn and and and that's what I did. And you know the rest is history, and I'm on with you. Uh, I'm blessed to be on with you fellas. Right now, Dearyl, did you know you were walking around with the legendary

Steve Sable? Oh yeah, with our questions. Well, first once he told I saw his face and I was like, this can't be life right now, like that Steve Sable right there, and and and then he was like, yeah, come roll with me. I'm like, yep, I'm not. I'm not gonna say no. Um, and and like he just he he's such a brilliant man. I mean from all the art we have around this place. He I mean, he told me a story like how this whole place came to be, the old building the current building. Now,

it was just unbelievable. And and and to this day, you know, those are moments with him, I won't forget um. I I remember just being you know, my second third year editing, even when you know Steve was battling cancer and he was you know, uh he had to he he was relegated to a wheelchair and coming. He would come in just to watch me edit. He would say a couple of things here and there with the strength

that he had, you know, for suggestions. But he cared so much about people, and that's one of the things that made me fall in love with this this place, and it's it's it also fuels that enthusiasm and fire because I love people. You can't do anything without the people that you surrounded with your team. Durrell who something.

I feel the same way about you all boys. I love you dearly and I'm super proud of what you guys are doing at the league office because your boots on the ground and you care about all of our brothers that's coming off that field to make sure that

you know there's a place for him. So you know, as long as you know God has me in this position to be associated with that, you know, I'm all aways had that energy and ENTHUSIASTM Well, guys, when we had the discussion about what we would call former players, and we end up coming and I'm talking about the

league office come up with the term legend. Well, we got some kicked back a little bit because the some of the Hall of Famers said, well, if you call every former player a legend, then what are we And what we wanted the Hall of Famers to understand was a legend if you're one percent every guy has played in the league, one percent of high school players playing the league. So no matter how long a guy played, if he had made it to the league, he was

a legend wherever he came from. Even though depending on the length of the career, that player may not feel like their legend, but to them back home, they are a legend. So d C tell us about those dynamics and that psychology actually becoming out the ball getting called my perspective on it, and you hint it, You hinted at it with just my enthusiasm. So my perspective on

it is where all legends. We all made sacrifices to get to this point, to to have careers, regardless of the length um but even more than that, and because I'm a man of faith, we're all blessed to to to be able to say that. And I think that in and of itself means a lot. And that is,

you know, just something that should be cherished, should be respected. UM. And I think even when I when I got when I signed up for the the NFL Legends community, prior to even any projects with respect to this podcast and and and other adventures that we do overheit NFL films, UM, I was I was star struck because you know, some of the guys, like the warren SAPs of the world, you know, guys that I studied film on just to try to emulate a fraction of what it is that

he was able to do. Um. You know, I was like that, dude is a legend. That does that mean I'm a legend? You kind of think about it in those tournals. I'm like, man, I just like my career was back and forth, our practice squad rosters. I mean, can I even you know say that. But at the end of the day, Um, we all share common experiences and and and and honestly it heightens the common bond, you know. Um. Again, even to to my brothers on this this podcast here d y new Sama, you guys

had amazing careers. Um. And you know, I've I've watched YouTube clips on you guys, highlights on you guys, and I'm like, man, it's it means so much to me to just say, man, you know what, those are my brothers through this, through this legends community, through our common bond and experiences that we've shared. Regardless of the length of career, I can say the that I can with conviction state that you guys are my brothers. And that's

why I'm so excited when I see you. That's why I root for you and cheer for you when you guys are doing things at the League office and you know, um, and that's why I always have your backs. Legend. Any other term of endemnment that that it might get changed to noe makes no no matter to me because it's all about that common bond and um the brotherhood. So thank you, d seeing who song. I got a different

question for you and and maybe Durrell. How different is that working of the league office versus being on the field. What does that psychology are? Like? Wow, Wow, that's uh, that's everyone. That's an everyone because you know, they both take a vast level of commitment. Uh, they both take a vast level of of knowledge and understanding. Uh you know, one of them beats up your body and your brain, and another one is more so just the mental, the

brain and the social and emotional. But uh uh, I'll say that looking at my my NFL experience and you know, now transitioning and being a legend, just to allude to your last question is wild for me because to even say myself as a legend, but I like to recognize my brothers that are on the line right now and others and saying those guys are legends. And then we stepped into the the corporate space of the NFL and

the business side, and we're rookies again. You know, we know the game, we know the business of the game to an extent, but the corporate side of it, that's that's the challenge, you know. I uh, I think the other guys on the on the phone as well, we all we all had learning experiences when we first stepped in. And you know d C mentioned, you know, a cleaning up coming in with suit when I first met the reil indeed, why we were both suited and booted as well,

and we were both like, where's the bathroom? The same way as the same way you come in and you're like looking for the training room. Where's the training room? How do I get my ankles taped? You know, and you feel you feel like a vet to some degree. But then in your first meeting, people aren't listening to you. They're not waiting for your ideas. They're not they're not

they're not waiting for you to provide input. And when you do, if it's not heard, you always want to go back to speaking on the the experience as an NFL player to show them, Hey, I do know what I'm talking about. I have experienced things that that very few or if not any of you have experienced it. And I and I have some valuable input to display. But but still like a rookie like the I say, the most of the successful rookies you put in at extra time to be successful at your craft. And I

think that's what all of us have done. You know, we we ask questions, we look for mentors. Sometimes the mentors come to us. You know, we've been we've been blessed to have people and you know, right right right and out at our disposal, and say a Troy who played the game and transitioned into this space and and others throughout the building who who have opened up to us.

But if we don't take that initiative, or if we don't speak on it, that stigma exists as just the guys that played the game that are in the building and don't necessarily have value correct the role. Who comes to you with a quick question, but to you d C the end of the veterans make you bring donuts when you're a rookie, man, uh, it's it's funny. It's funny that you just you should say that, because, um,

first off, you gotta understand and you know that. And to to to Sama's point, when you come in as a rookie, the difference that I like to say that I've seen on the field with you know, guys like Brian Urlacker or um um, Derek Brooks and stuff like that, who I have the you know, the fortune to play with. They understood the power of taking advantage of every opportunity.

They understood the power to studying. You know. Usami said, you come in and you know you have to ask those questions, you have to learn um and and you know in some instances you have to go get donuts. I mean, it's just one of those things you might when you come in, you might have to go get the executive producers glasses from you know, Lens Crafters or somewhere because he can't do it because he's putting together

a show. But at the same time, those are the those are the lumps that you have to take while you retool and reinvent, reinvent yourself and educate yourself to the nature of the business so that later on you can make strides and you can um, you know, showcase your talent within this new space on this new field. So yeah, I mean as a rookie, I've I've I've done plenty of late nights and studying and you know analytics that never got you know, used on the show.

But you know, uh, now you know I'm in a position nowhere. You know, I don't have the title of playing the show, but you know I kind of put the show together visually, so you know, you just have to Your time always comes. Is That's what I'm trying to say. Hey, Durrell, did you take advantage of any of the NFL programs to help you train for what you do? You know what I didn't know about NFL programs. I did the p A programs and I did an internship at UNDARMED. One of the things that I did

there was learned how to use Microsoft Outlook. That was the best thing that I could have learned during that time, but also how to network. But in terms of the NFL programs, I was not aware about all the resources that were available. And you know, I just got off

the fielding twenty seven team. But one of the things that you know changed up when we came into building, Troy said, we want to be intentional and we want to have you guys go off to the teams, not to not to just be that player rep, but to build relationships and talk about the information that's out there for players. And then fast forward, we have the Player Portal.

So we have so many different resources now that allow players to engage with the league office that weren't there necessarily three years ago, or they were there but we just didn't know about them. Well, we know what these transitions become become obstacles. Were you being three African American men in the league officers, Well, what has been your experienced with stereotype, stigmas, unconscious bias maybe while working in

the league office. DC oh Man we we we here. Uh. I guess the word the word culture comes to mind when I say that. And I don't mean that in a negative way. I mean that in a way where you have to understand and and and and Oussama d y no, you guys can are gonna add into this when you get to the league. Right, what's the nine times I'll attend. The first thing you have to deal

with is the the change in speed of the game. Right, the things are just moving at such a frantic pace and you're trying to catch up right here in the NFL films. UM, I believe that the culture here has been a certain way for so long, UM. And since there isn't very much representation African Americans in particular, UM that it's it's an opportunity for for for growth in

this area. It's an opportunity for a better understanding, UM with respect to what you know, UM african Arians go through when they do enter spaces like this, and in particular, UM, people didn't know me, and they only knew the football football side of things, and so my the way people looked at me was, hey, you're just a football player, UM that's in this space and you know what You're gonna go to the place where all football is, which is NFL Matchup. It's all about xos is at all

twenty two footage. That's we feel like, that's comfortable, comfortable for you. You go there and you do your thing in there. The only problem with that is that is not the business of NFL films. The business of NFL films is making stories, is making documentaries. Is UM showcasing the lives of many NFL football players and put it in putting it on the big screen. So the show that I was on was was basically an outlier show. UM a great show because it's been around for years.

I know when you know I played the game, I would be watching it like game David. You know it's NFL Matchup, you Jaws and Hodge and and everybody on UM on the set. I saw that dynamic. Um, I saw the fact that I was on this show because I'm only seen as an athlete, and so that's where the athletes are gonna go. What I did and I had to the same thing you do in sports. Okay, what what are my assets here? If I'm a defensive lima, like I mean, I got a pretty sick inside club move.

Uh my first step is pretty all is pretty good. But you know that if if he catch me with that arm up, I'm gonna get bammed out the way. You know what I'm saying. Right now, everybody's kind of looking at me just like an athlete. You know, I don't really get too many opportunities. Uh, even though I'm waving my hand, and you know, there are a couple of things, a couple of talks and discussions I have to take on the chin and I know, and if I'm being quite frank here, if I was white, nobody

would be talking to me this way. And you know what I did, instead of saying, you know, a getting down to myself and saying pretty much f the situation, I said, let me let me, let me let me retool. Okay. I specialize with technology. I went to school for operating systems grad school for operating systems. I was computer science major. So really I saw a bunch of systems in here that everybody was only utilizing one way. So I said, you know what, maybe there's a way for me to

to get in that way. So I went to the tech side of the building. I talked to all the engineers I learned about, you know, the inner workings of how information is transmitted from the production side to the tech side. You know what that started to teach me about workflow. And so what I started to do is

become a master of that. And then once I understood that workflow, then I could take that back to the editing grounds, the production grounds, and then people would confide in me about things they didn't know about, and then I would help them. And then I feel like that was my end to the story, the story world. And I got my first opportunity the with um inside the NFL, and then the rest was history. Because then my co workers, my teammates said, you know what, he's not just a

football player. He actually and this is this is quite funny. They say, you know what, he can write, he's thoughtful and you know he's profound and he can can do these things. Now, in my mind, the stigmas and things are associated there before I even did anything. But as an athlete, what do we do someone? What do we do? Do you why? You know, even if they're looking at it in a way of color, we have we we've

always done it. Since we played the game, We adapted, we came in, we retooled, we we we reinvented, and and then just like the one percent you were talking about, it is we we excelled. You know now as brothers were part of the Letanis community at NFL Films. Now, I'm a I'm an associate producer, and I come to work with people I called my teammates, and some of them were people back then who said, you know, we'll

never get a full time job here. That's just that's just kind of a little bit of of what what what happens? But you know, still keep that enthusiasm, still keep that excitement, and and and and and and guess what, this is the same people that said, hey, you'll never get a job A high five in the hardway, and I call them brothers. Hey, d C, d C. I want I wanted to add to that, man, because I love the fact that you pointed out some uh, some very very valid points in terms of you know, being

black is one thing. Being a former player legend is another. You know, you're celebrated for your accomplishments on the field, and and that's the main thing, the one thing that's cool about the guys on this on this podcast right now, is I recognize the fact that y'all a man at the year, winners for your respective teams, and Byron was a white representatives and and we give back to our communities consistent or recognized for all that while playing, you know,

and and then stepping into the office space. Most people don't want to talk about that. They want to talk about those on the field accomplishments, which is cool, we can celebrate that, but they don't want to know about the internships and job shadows and in teaching and philanthropic efforts that that you've done, and and all the other commitments that you've made to to to at least be seen as on the same level of your colleagues. And you know me, I'll speak from myself in d wise

point of view. Being in player engagement, it's one thing that we're there and we're we have this dream job.

We want to be involved in strategy and business. So we said, you know what, we gotta get leadership certifications and we want to we got to go back to school and get our degree, our master's degree, and we hire executive coaches, and we take so many different different approaches, and again they are still sometimes ignored and which can be frustrating, but just like you said, we're always going to keep on pushing and that's one of the things that like I think make up that less than one

percent that we keep on bringing back. Like we're all about that commitment and we're gonna bring it to the field and we're gonna bring it to the office as well. I love that, do see it? Love it? Man? And would you say the experiences of being in the league being African American required, because what DC just talked about as well as Usama is it looked like it required patients. Can you talk about that drill? Yeah? Absolutely, So you know each and every day you know it's a it's

a new challenge. And you talk about patients. Well, for me, being from the practice squad to waiting behind the great Mike Sellers to starting in the position to getting cut the waiting game was the hardest thing on the field, but I learned how to adapt to that is both of these gentlemen eluded to. You adapt to that. You you you put yourself in a situation where you say, you know what, that's not gonna work today, but that inside zone, we might come back to that in two weeks.

You know, like you said, you wait some things out and you have your opportunity, but you have to be ready, you know, and uh you could. I don't know if you're ever you're ever ready, you can prepare for it, I should say, I don't know if you're ever ready, But when that challenge comes, I know I'm gonna put

myself in the best situation for that opportunity. So here's a here's a fantastic question, all right, being DC, being in films, Salmon Durrell being the league office as well, how did you guys make the transition as relates to the I would say, the etiquette in the locker room versus being in corporate and also things said on the field, how things are sit in the locker room. Now you you're also working with females as well. Tell me about that, DC.

I think it has a great deal to do with one, you know, behavior, corporate behavior um understanding the boundaries that have to exist when you're in the corporate space as opposed to you know, that natural exchange that you have in the locker room, where you know that locker room space is comfortable space and you can talk about anything.

In corporate America, uh, and NFL Films we're a bit more reserved and and we stick to our our business, which is you know, making stories, um, but also dealing with you know, like like females and stuff like that. You just you just have to understand that that the corporate space takes again back to that point we alluded to a great deal of patients to negotiate. I think

workflow UM is key. Teamwork is key, and then and and and understanding that and and having I should also say, like an open mind us to say, hey, what it is that that I'm suggesting might not be um used, what it is that I'm this thing might not be put on the forefront of any initiative that might go on around here because maybe it's just not time for it yet or maybe you know, I have a good deal of growth yet to do. And and like to that point that I was talking about, you know, you

can prepare, you can prepare for things. You can prepare or you know, to try to prepare for the corporate space. But you know, but you can't always be ready for it. You can't always be ready for uh those situations that come up, um until you're actually in them. And then you know what, that's another notch on the belt that you know you you praise God that you got through and then you're able to act accordingly the next time.

All of us on the football field is immediate in terms of you if you score or get a sack, uh, pancake as a blocker, we high five is all. Exuberance is excitement, right you get corporate all of a sudden you may have just great idea, man and great presentation. It was like, okay, we'll all go back to our offices. How did you How did you deal with that psychology thrill oh man? So for me, it was, uh, it

was tough, you know. But it's one of the things where I started reading more, I started educating myself more. I started asking questions. That's what the Solmo mentioned. I always told myself, and this is the quote I live on in life. Uh. I always told myself, if you know, you can't complain about having a lot on your plate when your goal was to eat. So regardless of how that takes, how how it takes to get there, I'm

gonna get but it's the truth. I can't complain about having a lot on my plate when my goal is to eat. That's what I said day one. So how it takes to get there, whatever it takes to be that captain of that ship, I'm gonna figure out how to do that while treating people the right way. Talk about office etiquette, talk about ethics, just fairness, integrity, all of those things that come into play. You think about that as you as you try to get into the position.

But as as DC alluded to, I'm a servant man, so I'm honest to myself, I'm honest the peers around me. I'm gonna treat people just like they want to be treated. The Golden a little. In addition to focusing on the journey and transition with this podcast, the other things with all of this, some unrust, social unrest been in the positions what you guys are have any new passion has been ignited while working under each of your league roles and if so, what are they who summer? And you

know what? Uh? With with all that's going on, it's it's been a reminder for me to think about how how blessed we are to be in the positions that we're in. You know, we we're we're we're working for the best, the best professional league out there. And I'm biasing saying that because I spent most of my younger

adult years playing playing in the league. But now I understand how much influence and impact we have with the NFL and the players that make up this lead provide to the communities that that they serve in and that there that they were born in. So working in player engagement is one thing, but Social Responsibility, the Social Responsibility Team and Inspire Change has has provided us an opportunity to have a voice in those rooms. Uh, sometimes I

challenge the group, I challenge others to speak up. We we might see something that we know isn't right and we don't say anything about it. So it's like, hey, we're just as bad as the person that's performing the act. And and if we don't speak up about it, if we don't say something, if we don't put us, if we don't stand for something, we don't stand for anything.

We we started to take an intentional approach to say, look, how do we highlight specifically what we stand on, Like we're doing so much in these communities, these underserved communities, these COVID hot spots, and and but we haven't actually put a word on it we haven't actually said anything, and now we've got different things, different items going on for the players. It takes all of us to end racism. Where players are speaking up, we're welcoming that, we're encouraging that,

and being in those meetings. It's uplifting. At times, it's a challenge because oftentimes you know, it's something that's mentioned that doesn't necessarily get brought to the forefront, but it's still an opportunity to provide input. And I love that.

I love the fact that I cannot only do that, but I can go back to the young leaders that I served with my foundation and and and empower them through mentorship and talk about some of these initiatives that we're doing, and talk about how they have a voice as well, and challenge them in the real I don't give a scenario. I want you to speak to your experience in the league office. A lot of times people refer to things as prejudice, in other words, prejudice within

the corporation, unconscious bias. Would each of you guys start with Darrell say, I found when you don't have proper representation at the table, there is just many times things you don't even think about because you don't have somebody that represents something that may not be on your radar or it may not be something you're literally conscious of.

How important has it been being in the league office to be that voice as an African American to have that that that that too to share in the room our perspective not that you represent all African Americans, but you represent African and African American. Does that make sense? Drill? Yeah?

It does. Yea. You ask a great question, and I think, uh, to be honest with you, I haven't been to the table too many times in those situations, but when asked, I feel like we've had had some out comes where we can say, Okay, we've made we moved the needle a little bit, and not saying that people in the room haven't done it, but it's just speaking from a player perspective, speaking from an African American perspective, you know you're gonna you're gonna bring something different to the table.

So but it comes back to that strategy piece, and I think we've been doing a better job, you know, since the George Floyd's situation in terms okay, what do you all think? What can we do? And I'm not gonna say we shied away from before, but it wasn't like that until the world had to pause and say, look what just happened. What do we need to do

to address these issues in the workplace? And we've been part of these conversations, and you know, Osama has been leading a charge to be honest with these one of those guys who his boots on the ground, he's been doing it. Art McAfee has been doing it. Now things are coming back full circle. Okay. You know you talk about voting education, what we were doing that with Fritz Pollard the past few years, but people weren't taking advantage of it because you know, it may not have been

important at the time. But now we're seeing, Like I said, because of COVID, the world had to slow down, and it was good for us all. But now having to see at the table, I feel like not saying that I specifically contributed to it, but there would have been some instances well I felt like I've added value to it some how. Have you spoken up after the death of George Floyd? You guys have spoken out frankly to

your co workers about your own personal experience. Tell me about that wow, you know, you know it was it was tough. It was tough for me. And just listening to d Y, you know you hear that humility. He He's like, nah, I didn't have a lot. Man. I'll be straight up on the mic right now. Yes, you have, you have you You've challenged me, You've pushed me to speak up, and I think others have followed the lead.

Uh with with with our voice when it comes to you know, after George Floyd as d what I mentioned, this has just been going on for so long, and and when when we had our our staff meeting, I had to share an experience that I had when I was a child and I was I was handcuffed, and I know for a fact, looking back at it, how how hurt I was, how hopeless I felt at that

given moment. And I can't imagine imagine having a knee on my neck, being choked, suffocated and fighting for my life and and begging for my grandmother or my mother or I can't imagine it. So I said, man, I

can't remain mum on this call. And at first I wasn't going to say anything that I said, you know what, I'm gonna write and I wrote, wrote, wrote, I wrote out what I what I experienced, and I shared it with my my, my team and player Engagement and and f CM Football Communication and Marketing, and they were receiving. They were receptive of it. They listened and immediately I, I mean, I started crying. But other people you could see the hurt, you can see the hanks, you can

see the surprise. And for me, that was a reminder that tag on they really had no clue that the other black people on this call, our other black team members, several of them have similar stories. And when we got on our all league meeting, I had to do it again, which was even tougher for me to bring myself back to that point and do it again for probably five hundred to a thousand people that I don't know, that

have never met me. And in the response from it, with several emails, a few texts, calls, you know, people checking in and everything, And in my response to that was, I thank you. Let's do the work. Now we've got a job to do. And and since you do know, and since we can't hide, we can't hide anymore. And now it's it's evident that their injustices throughout our entire community, our society. We've got to do something about it. And stepping up, speaking up about it is one thing. Changing

laws is another, as locating is another. Providing support, that's that's that's major. So uh I was fortunate to have that platform, and uh I was encouraged by my colleagues and everything, and and now we're at a point where

I think we are seeing change. But we've got a lot of work to do when it comes to diversity, when it comes to equality, when it comes to so much in our communities, d C and and really Darrell, uh some any of you guys can answer this question when all of us for players, there are a number of legends and current players, I think the league is against them. How have you from your prospective scene, how much work and how the league really does care for the player and for the legends. I do not believe

that the league is against players. I don't. I don't. I don't believe that's I don't think that's the thing. What I'm encouraged by is durrell a new Sama speaking up because their work, they're them being boots on the ground has a direct effect on you know, me over here to NFL Films, and I'm not in the league office, but this is NFL Films. Is one of the three league officers, L A and Y and then us out here there. There aren't very many black folks here. I mean,

I'm not gonna get into the numbers, but they just aren't. Um. And even more than that, I'm the only former player in the building. So when I come in every morning and before COVID times, eb Hard Press wanted to see another black person in the building and a couple of I could go to three days without seeing somebody. But now because of it's it's it's a direct correlation with what it is that do saman d y do with player engagement and with making sure that you know, we're

talking about these issues. I see I've seen an uptick in you know, African Americans and black people and people of color color through our internship program. I've seen um more talks and discussions that the Black Engagement Network is having with leadership here. There is anyone who's African American

on our leadership uh committee. UM. But again, you know, I'm encouraged that as long as these conversations and discussions continue to happen because of what d Y does and and the new Sama do that you know at some point that will change. It has has changed the game for me. I've seen Howard Barbieri, who is a former you know, offensive lineman for the Giants. He's come through here over the last few years. Um Um Chris Wilson, who's the second round draft pick for uh KNSA City Chiefs.

He's he's here right now on his second stint um as a seasonal. And I hope he gets full time, a full time gig because he's um an independent filmmaker and you know he's that's that's his life, that's what he's been doing. I mean, I'm starting to see change because of what it is that these brothers are doing. So when when people say that, hey, the league is against this or anything like that, ay, I looked to my left and all right, I see d Wy and

do something. I say, Na, it's not because these brothers are making change that I that I feel directly every time you know, we have a meeting or a discussion or you know, I come out my office and I see, you know, the things are changing. The people like me in the building, I like the time man, and that too. It needs because I'm wouna be honest man. When I was on the field, I said, the league don't care about us, man, they sent me a fine letter. How they're gonna send me a fine for twenty two and

care about me? But that was a young being not understanding that. I also didn't get off the couch to go vote in those PA meetings to make a difference. So now I understand that things are negotiating one, but two being in this space in the league office and

the resources that are there. But when you can go back to school for free, when you can you have all these resources and benefits, I think it's about the player now, and now we have to start looking at ourselves and evaluating are we putting ourselves in the best situation as players? Not when it not when we're in times of need. But while I'll while that check works on Instagram and we verified when people respond to you, what are you doing to better yourself during that time?

And that's what we do. The challenge players. I don't question you, I'm just challenging you to be better than you were yesterday, to be better than you were today today. Now I don't feel bad because I know, God, there's so many opportunities. There's so many resources. We're meeting players where they are in terms of social media, face to face interactions. We have transition coaches, we have the Legends community,

we have you know, player engagement. There's so many different avenues now that it's just an excuse at this point if you don't utilize the resources that are there for you. It's outstanding. As we calls out, I want to talk about the future, uh from the grid, our journey as African men, and a corporate meta fold to your unique perspective on inspired change succinctly and quickly touch on what's next to your journey the lead and make a difference in the league office DC uh is I can possibly

put it. I'm just going to continue to put my passion in people and my faith and God that uh, you know, things will change. And as long as I'm surrounded by brothers like the RelA New Sama and we all are like minded, that's gonna happen. Sama. Uh. My mission is to continue to be a servant to others and and take on more of a mentorship role to those that are new and looking to make a career

here but outside of that. I want to continue to inspire, inspire the ones that are on the field right now and those that are looking up to them, but remind them that football is only a fraction of who they are. I don't want them to fall into a dark space. I don't want them to feel as though they're not supported and from the league. I know that we can do that through player engagement, through the Legends community, continue to serve and continue to mentor and provide support. Durrell, Yeah,

I have to agree with that, man. There was some strong statements right there. I uh, you know what, I'm gonna have to steal that inspiring, inspiring, uh and motivate. You know, in my community. Now, I look at the graduation rate and when I would graduate from high school, not much has changed. So what am I going to do to activate there? But showing them that that's hope that you don't have to go down the line of you know, selling drugs and education has got me the

same amount of money without doing time. So uh, you know that's one of the things that you know I want to do is inspire others, serve, give back and uh, you know it just continue to be the person that I seen myself when I said I was gonna do this thing. Durrell O, Sama the Lion and d C. This has been amazing podcast. Thank you so much for joining us, Thanks for listening to the best is yet to company. I appreciate it. Appreciate it. H This has

been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback or request a topic for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at NFL dot com, m