Legends in Politics

great John Runyon Philadelphia Eagles. We also have Scott Turner, who I can out run. He will admit that, who played eight seasons, served in Congress and now words for the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Welcome, gentlemen. I do apologize I could never out run Scott, So let's get that straightforward for the truth. At what point, John did you decide you wanted to get in politics. It

was a weird kind of it was a transition. Obviously, an injury slash surgery ended my career and there was an opportunity to run. You know, I took it as service ultimately, and you know, we'll get into it as we talk here, but it became a lot more than that. And you know, the the stuff you had to go

through was it was enlightening. It was depression at the same time, but it was it was something real, and it was just an opportunity that I took to actually serve the community there, you know, because I've been on many you know, I still sit on you know, like the Alzheimer's Association, a couple of veterans boards and all that kind of stuff. But that was the next step. And then you get there and you peep behind the curtain, you go, oh, my lord, but John, you so you injured?

No punt on word. If you decide to run, you get injured, you decide to run politics. But why politics? Were you involved in politics while playing? I think like most Americans, I was fed up and part of my friends with the BS and I was fed up with it. And it's like you just need somebody that's a straight shooter, and it's not gonna lie to you, because here's what it is. When you look at I actually hate the problem with it is people called politics. It's not politics,

it's governing. And when you when you look at governing, what is governing. It's parenting slash coaching your kids, like what you have to tell them every day. Not at all. That's the reality of the situation. Now politics is all you know, well, you know, let's divide and you know, and divide and run to the extremes. I always say when politics is a very you know, in the House, you need two eighteen votes to pascity thing, So put those put those votes on a bell shaped curve. So

everything gets done in the hump in the middle. And obviously, myself, being a Republican from New Jersey, very moderate, I goes all the stuff you hear, you know, on the radio, television, in the paper are out here on the tails. And when everybody latches to that, because it's politically convenient to latch to that, you start to stretch those tails. What happens, that hump comes out of the middle of the curve

and absolutely nothing gets done. And I've always you know, I told I've told, I told my chief of staff this. I told um at the time, Speaker Banner, that I was I can vote any way I want you on any piece of legislation, as long as I'm willing to go home and put the time in and communicate my decision to my constituents. And I've called people out. I did it in front of the Republican Conference several times, Like people are just lazy. You're not willing to actually

go home and do the work and explain yourself. You're taking the politically convenient way out and actually going through the edges and stretching those tales out. And when you say politically convenient way out, what do you define? What do you mean John, when you say politics versus governing? Because politics, they always go, well, it's outside of my principles.

So what are your principles? How many politicians you know that have have been in it forever and they voted, you know, ten years ago they voted this way and now they're voting in the exact opposite way. So what are truly your principles? No, it's called it's called doing what's right. And and what times change issues? The issues

never really changed, you know, what are the major issues? Taxes, healthcare, military, all that, they never change, but it's how they fit into what your constituents are and what the country feels. So you you you have to be somewhat malleable in that in that situation, and a lot of people just say, I'm principally opposed to it, so therefore I'm not for it. But they're not having the discussion, they're not communicating, and that that was a big frustrating part for me and Scott.

How did you what made you decide get a politic? Well, that's a good question, and it was service um when I got out of the NFL. Prior to getting out of NFL, intern with a gentleman named Congressman Duncan Hunter, who was in part who served with John the father, Duncan Hunter Jr. With me when you start with you, Okay,

well we won't talk about him. So the father, uh was Duncan hun Senior and he was a chairman of the Armed Services Committee, and so I had a great opportunity to serve as an intern with him, and I played for the Broncos, and I saw really what being a true statesman looked like, you know, because you hear a lot of things in politics about politics when you're on the outside, and so when I was with him, I actually got to see how true statesman, who was

also a chairman, you know, of a major committee in Congress, how he carried himself, how he treated people, whether they were in politics or outside. I mean, I saw him literally treat uh constituents back in the East County of San Diego that had been known him for twenty years, but none of us in this room and never even know their name. He treated them just as well as he treated the President of the United States. And when

I saw that, you know, I was very encouraged. When I moved back home to Dallas, UM they said there was a new seat coming open, a state House seat coming open because of redistricting. And the platform that I had had that I had in the NFL of serving players, of serving our community, of serving people, I wanted to continue that in serving the state of Texas where I'm from,

where I was born and raised. And the frustrating, like John said, what are the frustrations that I had, was humility in being a servant leader, because I didn't see a lot of humility in our elected officials. What is a statesman? So a statesman to me is someone who carries themselves in the most upright manner him or herself. Um that you take very seriously the position of which

the people elected YouTube. And when I say take it seriously, meaning that not that you're above them, but that everything you do you do in integrity and above reproach. A statesman is someone who, whether they're with you or whether they're not with you, whether they're in your presence or in your absence, you can trust that they're going to do the right thing. A statesman there's someone who is an advocate for all of those whom elected them to office,

whether they're popular or not. A statesman is someone who, when they give you their word, you know they're gonna make true on the word the trustworthy. And I remember one day when I was sitting in the House of Representatives and it was done a budget debate, so it was late at night. Don't use that word, Okay, don't use what word John, budget? What we we balanced the budget in Texas. In Texas, because a budget would assume that there's a balance money and money out, not so much.

It's a spending that's what it is. Well, we balanced a budget every two years, because we're in the House, we're incessant every two years. We're so we're bi annually. And so we were having this debate on the floor and I was sitting there and I was hearing both Democrats and Republicans going back and forth, back and forth. We're really no consensus, really no no end game or vision in mind. And I was sitting there and I was like, you know, we need more statesmen in our

country than we need politicians. And politicians to you, I heard what Johnson, But what do you mean when you say politicians? To me, is somebody to make decisions based upon being reelected? A politician to me as someone who makes the decision not based upon principle or based upon their conviction, but really based upon you know, is this gonna keep me in good favor it's convenience. Is this

gonna keep me in good favor with the leadership? Is this gonna, you know, cause me any kind of contention back home? Or is this gonna keep me as a committee chairman? Those that's what politicians do. And politicians are also those people who want to be elected and would do everything they can to keep their position. Statesmen say, I'm coming to serve for a certain period of time. I'm gonna do my job. I'm in a humble manner with integrity to serve my community, and then I'm going home.

There's a there's a big difference between statesman and politicians. So would you say listening to that, because if I want to get elected, if I become quote unquote the statesman, meaning making decisions in this room because it's right, not necessarily, what if what my constituents want is not right? When I faced that, because a lot of times I made decisions where some constituents back home and say, no, we

want you to do the opposite thing. And I've had to take some really hard votes, as John has as well. But one thing I found is that because they respected me for the man that I that I am, even though I made a decision that went against what they thought I should do, I had no problem in being reelected because they could trust that what I said I was gonna do and that my conviction was such that

I did what I thought was the right thing. And they trust you even if they don't agree with you on a If they can trust you, then you have no problem. You should have no problems being re elected and um may containing your position as a representative, because it's very easy politicis that can make one decision to day And I totally they're like John said ten years later to make a whole different decision. Well, our constituents don't deserve that that there's somebody who's gonna be consistent

and trustworthy, Johnna. The any parallels with football that you learned that's helped to help you prepare for being an elected official, Oh, I mean a lot of them. I mean specifically coming from playing offensive why you know, the own Sun hero. No one's talking about you until you mess something. You know, you guys got credit for things that we never got credit for. We only got acknowledged

for our mistakes, you know. And and and it's a lot that so like, like we say, it's like, you know, when you look across the political spectrum, there's a role for everybody, and you all have different constituents that have different needs and different wants and all that type of stuff, and you have to represent them regardless. But at some point you have it. On the football team, at some point, you know, you know, you want your you know, you

want your pass breakups, you want your tackles and all that. Well, I'm trying not to give up a sack. It's a totally different, you know, statistic there, But at some point we all have to come together, you know, and and it's it gets to the point where they want to win everything. But sometimes, like when you're backed up in the end zone, it's good enough to get ten yards and get your punter room to punt and change the

field position. And you know, using those analogies a lot of time, and they do use them, but they don't believe in them because they don't they haven't lived, they haven't lived, and it's it's sometimes it's really hard to express that that type of stuff. And it's also it's also the thing like you don't want your teammate like you know, after a game or you know, in a press conference, throwing you under the bus, like it's like, let's keep let's keep our differences in house, and let's

just move the ball forward. And that that's where the politics comes in, because they go out and it's like, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna go out here and do this press conference and beat my chest and you know, say this is ridiculous and this that's ridiculous. One of the great things I know John Bayner said in the beginning when I got elected, he goes, never say what you won't do, because you never know what did that mean?

To you. It's it's really it's like because depending on how deep you get into any issue and how well you know that issue, the more the more you dig into it, it's going to change your mind eventually. So never say you won't do it. So it's it's really about gaining knowledge and that's and it's learning, and it's like Scott said, it's like it's talking to everyone possibly

you can. I know, you know, there's a lot of members that just won't take meetings with certain people just because of their political affiliation or you know where they're coming from. I was like, no, I'm gonna every time I have conversations with somebody, I'm gonna learn something from them. So the more I could talk to people, the more I'm gonna learn, the better I'm gonna be off, and the better decision I can make at the end of the day. Scott, how is winning an election similar or

dissimilar to winning the game. There are similarities because even when in an election, you have an end goal in mind that you want to win the election, be elected, and serve the people. In sports, you have an end goal in mind every Monday when we come in and we start the process. The end goal is that on Sunday we walk up the field winners. Um, the feeling is somewhat similar and somewhat different. You know, you get

an exhilarating feeling because you won. I remember when I got elected and they called and say, hey, you wont I just remember the first thing I thought about is how many signs I put out, how many round tables I've done, how many doors, thousands of doors I've knocked on, you know, how many people I've talked to. And so when you get that phone call and said you won the election, instance, there's a very exhilarating sense of accomplishment, sense of whoa, I'm glad that's over in a good way,

and a sense of okay, what's next. And so there's a lot of similarities. Got to give back the work, you know, because as soon as I got elected, the first after you know, that stuck in the first thing I thought about, Okay, what are my priorities I talked about him in the campaign. I said, okay, now you know, now I can go implement these or talk about these in the house. Did you colleagues treat you any differently because you're an NFL experience? Oh yeah, I want you

a part of that group. Hey, we don't care where you come from, but they treat you a little different than you. I think that that kind of goes to I think where we've kind of went off the rails in politics because it was supposed to. You know, back two years ago when this started, you know, you left your print shot, you left the farm, you know, and

you came and served. Now what happens. We have a bunch of people that mhm, study political science undergrad got a j d. Law degree in college, and I'll throw them under the bus right now. There are a bunch of people that probably will never make partner in the law firm, and all of a sudden they decided to run for politics. We have enough of those. We need more real people and bringing those experiences I used stay

it on the campaign trol all the time. We all fall, we all fail, and we all get up and we dust ourselves off in very different ways. I may get up on my left knee first, You get up on your right knee first. You know, my back may hurt. I've learned lessons from that fall. But you've got to have that that that swath of experiences to bring that

because it's not easy. It's very very complicated. That's why it's it's really really hard to fix because they're very confident caterd issues and say you're gonna just gonna in a stroke of a pen and you know, two piece of legislation, you're going to solve the country's problems. It ain't gonna happen. It's constant, constantly going out learning, educating people, letting people know why you did what you did and why you didn't do what you didn't do, and all

that kind of stuff. It's it's challenging, and it's no different than beyond the football field. You know, game plans change week to week depending on who the opponent is, you know, you know, and legislation changes day to day. But the fans will get to vote on what plays are called. They don't, but tell them about that. But look at that. I mean, fans don't get to vote

on what plays is called. But you know, you look at that, and it's just like it's no different than the coaching staff, Like all right, the coach thinks this is the best thing one So when you look at the structure of like just say leadership in any of those governing bodies. You know, they're the ones that have the experience of the knowledge and all of that. Kind of Stuft was like, this is the best path forward for the team, Yeah, overall overall, And the players don't

really get to vote on that. No, you're just like going. But it's a lot correct, it's not. It's a lot like that in in in government. But you have a saying at the end of the day, you can say no. But if they if it makes enough sense enough people are gonna go with it and then try to try to run that play. It's not necessarily gonna work. So here's a great question. Ten years with Arizona only one year in the playoffs with me first ten years in

the league, I'm listening to the challenges. I'm listening to you, John. When you're a perennial losing teams like that, there's a tendency for players to become losers. So one of the things was to be to be a thermostat, not at thermometer thermometer, as you guys will go up and down based on the losing instead of working your butt off regardless. Because players don't necessarily totally control outcome of a game.

How have you been able to stay hopeful when you've been seeing the things that you've talked about, John, have you have have you maintained, Oh, we still can win in this country at this? Tell them about that. Like I said, I mean, there's there's good in everybody. You can either choose to look at the good or you can choose to go to the negative. Boy, So let's just let's take the view and say what can we

agree on and let's do it. You know there's you know, and then once we do something, because you've been on teams when you're winning, that confidence builds and that you know, that emotion starts to grow and it it just explodes on you. But if you're always saying it's like woe is me? This this? You know, this sucks and all this kind of stuff, like winning is a lot harder than harder than losing, because losing you just show, like you know, when you're in the legislature, you just stow

your hands up, say no to everything. That's an easy way. How do you find a solution? And you have to find a good in people and find what you agree on and actually have conversations with them. It happens more often than not. But the unfortunate part I think, you know, when you throw the word politics in it, it becomes it becomes a sound bite, it becomes a tweet, it becomes a you know, a clip on the evening news,

and that's what they're playing to. And that's the frustrating part about it because and I've served with a lot of them, and I'm like, why do you go out and say that, because I know you're not that person. You're just trying to get a hit, because you're trying to get reelected. If you do the right thing and you communicate with your constituents, you don't have a problem getting reelected. But that's that's kind of the world we're living,

and it's frustrating. And that's frankly why I stepped away from Wow Scott. At Southern University where I attended, my brother was vice president and student government association, I didn't care anything about governance at all, only kind up running for sophomore class sentator. I want when I got in the room and sort of budget that that amount of money, it's like sixty million dollars for the student governments to govern. I'm looking around the room. First of all I know

about me. I'm in here only because of my brother. I'm thinking they allow us to decide what's gonna happen with sixty million dollars. So when I have that perspective some inexperiencing young students who had no clue about what we were doing, did you ever feel that in the room, what this huge now trillion dollar billion dollar budget? Yeah,

and that's and I want to answer that. Then I'm gonna go back to the course you as John, Yes, because you go in and kind of be overwhelming, you know, in particularly in Texas As I said, you know, we meet every other year and we and one of our constitutional obligations is to balance the budget. What do you mean you meet every idience the budget. We're in session

every years, that every year. Yeah, because we're called servant lead too, so we are people in texts that have businesses or to have jobs, and you step away from that like it was from the origination, the original. So you were never really supposed to be lifetime, full time no elected officials. That's how and so we serve you're always elected for those two years, barring anything that happens, but you're only in session for one and forty days

every other year. And one of the things we were constitutionally mandated to do is balt us the budget and textas we have about a two D D and fifteen billion dollar budget and you're one of one fifty you know, representatives to make a decision on passing the budget, and so that could be quite overwhelming, especially my first session.

But the good thing about that you have a team of people that are working together both Democratic Republican UH and you know, a group of attorneys and c pas and all of that that surround you to bounce your ideas off. To get that advice from you, talk to your constitute. You have a that's the policy. You have things that you have to you know, fund healthcare education in Texas is about a hundred and fifty billion, so we only have about eleven percent discretionary funding for everything else.

Roads and this thing happened and so it can be um as you say, you know, you know, like man, what am I doing here? But as you get into it, you learn, you know, if if you if you put the effort in, you learn about the process. You learn about it. And that's part of our job to learn as much as we can and in order to make a right decision to benefit the people have tastas. And

that's the point you mentioned, John, in terms of being lazy. Yeah, and that's what And that's the time these conversations that way you meant, because it's all you know, staying away from the political aspects. Like you you ever voted for a piece of legislation that you're a hundred percent agree with? Maybe one maybe when you throw it back into the bell shaped curve. You need those, you know, those votes in the middle. You're gonna have votes on either side.

But the only thing that most people that aren't engaged in the process here is the stuff out on the tails of that bell shape curve. And that that's the frustrating part about it, which comes back to the elected member to actually come out and do the town halls and educate people and have those conversations. A lot of times it's not pleasant because people like like I said,

you know, governing is parenting slash coaching. You're not gonna like what I have to all you, but why we're doing and you know, it's just so's your responsibility to the best you can to help your constituents. I understand. And I used to I used to bust in the little orphan state of New Jersey that I represented. So South Jersey is really an orphan compared to North Jersey because most of the population is up north. And I would,

you know, I'd hope people. I guess, when's the last time you saw one of our senators in South Jersey and it wasn't an election here. Yeah, you got a point, But that's that's the reality of what you're doing, or is like, are you actually going out and learning the dynamics of every you know, every little thing you know small business, whether it's you know, you know a fishing port or you know mom and pop shop and all that.

Are you are you having those conversations, learning what their issues are and what you can do to actually help them to make their life better because small business is the is the engine of this country. You know, small business employees way more people than any you know, fortunate five hunter company. Well, because when you do it, you know, by five by ten, it's exponential, and how many small businesses are in your backyard most people don't know. And that type of stuff you do is a member to

go out and learn and meet those people. It's amazing to see the amount of you know, the amount of just knowledge and you know, entrepreneurialship that people have that go out and employ these types of people. It's it's amazing. But a lot of people don't put the time in to do it because they run to the principal aspect of it and say it's just not good enough. So once again, having the right people around you to help you, well, that's you can't. I said this, I used say it

on campaign Charlie. Like I've never done anything in my life by myself. I've always depended on having to write people around me, trust their their counsel, their guidance and their experiences and trust in And you have to have trustworthy people around because you can't, you can't humanly do it. This word I just did an earlier podcast. This word trust keep coming up. And here goes back to the

stituent constituents trusting. You talked about the statesman right while playing in the league and even as an elected official, did you guys have mentors that that kind of help you navigate and the sport of football and then navigate in and what I would call the game of politics.

If I would call it that mentors anybody comes to mind. Yeah, well, I mean, obviously you know, you're a great mentor to meet, and not just in football, but even now in life because you know exactly when I make big decisions, you're always a part of it. And so not only did you mentor me in life and in football from the time I was in college. I was a freshman in college when I met a Nast and this is and we still have the same type of mentor brotherhood relationship.

And so but because of that, I've been able to not only receive from you and the other mentors that you know in our circle, but now I can take that and mentor other people in life now in sport and politics and now my current assignment at the White House. And you know, you said some a while ago about are we hopeful, you know, and how can we trust that it's going to be good? And obviously you know,

and and agreeing with John, yes, I'm hopeful. And in my current role, you know at the White House Opportunity and Revitalization Council, h you always say something, as you said, begin with the end in mind, right, and the end goal is in our country, we got thirty five million people,

close to fifty million people to live in poverty. So the end goal is how do we not only eradicate poverty, but how do we lift these people up or help them to lift themselves up out of poverty and to fulfill that God given potential and to live self sustain in lives. Well, this legislation, with the tax cuts and jobs in it created the opportunity zones and inside of these opportunities on you know, that was about partisan, you know decision, because poverty doesn't care what party you're in.

Poverty is a systemic issue in our country. And this word trust comes up because now it's can we trust our elected officials? Can we trust you know, the decision that has been made by the President, the administration, and now really myself, that this particular policy will cross political lines, cross generational lines, cross socio economic lines, and actually bring

about a viable solution. And I've been in this position of last year and what I have seen is that Democrats and Republicans have had to come together at the same table with local stakeholders, community of faith leaders, education leaders, what have you, to look at the pain of the community. But also now look at the potential and the promise

in the community. And there's a trust factor there is because they have to trust that what I'm telling them, this the legislation that I'm caring is law, this council that I'm stilling, and they have to trust that this will work if we do a B and C and come together. And so I'm hopeful because I'm seeing results that are bringing people together across party lines. And you also have to trust that the bureaucrats that are actually enforcing the legislation you passed are doing it in the

same the same spirit, in the same spirit. And is a little bit difficult because now you get into legal interpretations of a piece of legislation, and then you gotta go back and then the law year later and do all that and then that that gets even more touching. And when you mention bureaucrats, what exactly do you mean? Think about how many people work for you know, State of Texas or the United States federal government. You know, once you pass something into law, now they have to

implement the law. That's their job. But there are legal interpretations to everything. It's like, I mean, you know, you've handed a contract to two different attorneys and got two different answers. And that's that's part of the thing when you're trying to craft legislation, to try to pinpoint it, but you don't. The problem is when you pinpoint it

so direct, people fall out of that. They fall out of that cone because you're you're pointing at one issue, but what about the issue that's you know, you know, ten feet outside that one, what about the next fifteen? So you're entrusting a lot of the bureaucrats that actually implement these laws to do the right thing and interpret the spirit of the legislation you're doing, because when you pinpoint it, that's law and they can't vary from it. So you have to give them some discretion and the

actual legislation. So what I hear, John, I saw a picture as you're talking, so um so all of a sudden, now passed I saw passes. So the people passed to the elected official their desires and they're trusting you're gonna catch the ball and do something with it right what they've asked you to do, what their hearts desire. And then now you're telling me, once you guys voted in not a bureaucrats, they get the ball. That's the player that was called now and then you mentioned the word

trust against You got to drop the past. You know, you can. You know it could be an a dr touchdown. You know, it could be a five yard swing pass. You don't know, and that's that's the reality of it. But that's just like on your team. He said, you in Arizona for ten years and y'all didn't have a lot of winning. Sea went to the players one time, but one thing that happened. They trusted you and they followed you and your leadership because they saw what you did.

You trusted the guys on your defense because you saw how they practice, You saw how they prepared. You know, it's the same way with John on the offensive line. He had to trust those four or five guys with him that when they made that call, that everybody was gonna do the right thing because of preparations. It's the same thing here. You know. You you spend hours with the men and women that you served with, and you

see how they prepare or not. You know, you see how they treat their constituents, you see how they run their office, you see how they treat their staff members. Right, Oh, it's all very talent, and so you know who you can trust and who you cannot trust, and that circle becomes smaller. Look when you said even how they treat their staff members, I saw a chuckle or something that hit you, John, Well was it. There's a lot of people that don't treat their staffs right, and that speaks

something to you. It shows up when you speak to them. It's very talent. It's just like we treat people that are supporting. You know, I have the staff of sixteen people, family, like I still talked. I still talked to him, you know, every other couple of months, you know, to this day, and bounce ideas off of them and all that kind of stuff. They're family, family because they have your back,

you know. And it's not I mean, you're gonna make mistakes, but you know it's like we told you, you know, we recommended this to you and all this kind of stuff. But you know, ultimately, you know, six months later, it was a bad decision. All right, Well, let's regroup. I'm not gonna I'm not holding a grudge against you. I love you. We all make mistakes. I used to sit on campaign trail. There's only one perfect person to ever walked the face of his thirth and he sit next

to sits next to the Lord eyes. Final question couple to Final Questions number one. If former legends are thinking about politics, what thought should they have if they're considered doing it? What they're willing to give up? Can it cost you? It costs you a lot? Mhm. Are you willing to give up your time with your family? Are you willing to have your life be an open door? Are you willing to give up your income? You know, depending on what you run for? Are you willing to

it's an income drop your special intentions. Money takes us, you know. So what what price are you willing to be giving up? What are you willing to give up? Final questions which if you had to choose again, would you choose football and politics? I'm all in football, man, this is my passion, this is my life. Yeah. Um, I would choose football because football was the the catalytic tool that the Lord used that I can do it. I do. Now. You know the other thing about football?

You know, it's like politics is very analytical and brainy and hetty. So is so is football. But you know what, on football field, I can go and pose my will on another man. You can do that probably difference. I have way more control on the football field than I do. It's co signing a piece of legislation. There's nothing like it. You know, we've been in the highest halls of Congress, White House, you know, literally the episode of our country in the free world that we're very blessed to do so.

But the thing about football, there is nothing that you can compare to being an NFL player, and I'm so grateful for that experience. So I would choose football any day of the week. And because of the transferable skills and the opportunity it gives you to do things outside of football, which could be for the next podcast. I think it is really unbelievable. John and Scott, this has been great man. Thank you asked for being in here, thanks for listening in The best is yet to come.

M This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback or request a topic for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at NFL dot com. Yeah,