Inside Lines

impact on the NFL community and their own local communities. First, we have a Toya burl Liston, whose husband probably pushed me off being a received the National Football League many times. All right, make sure you tell him that atorya wife of NFL legend and current broadcaster Nate Burleson. And we also have Tia Avril, whose husband Cliff Avril, spent ten season second NFL quarterbacks. Together they have created in Sidelines Are blog and a podcast of their own, which just

kicked off the second season. Welcome, ladies, thank you. I'm just referring to we called the former players Legends. I'm just you guys started your own podcast. You going it to your second season. So how about I'm talking to some legendary ladies. How about that? Do that? All right? I want to start with your podcast. It's a lot of times people have ideas and they think about doing things.

It's a whole nother thing to do it your podcast, which is fantastic because it showcases the balance between family, commitment and community that comes with being an NFL family. Here's my first question, what inspired you guys to start it?

Ta so Atoya has served as my big sister since UM I officially started my NFL journey UM with Cliff in two thousand eleven, and I call her with just about any and everything, any question that is NFL related, like can you help me find a citer because you're in the city without family members and you know you need a little bit of help, or just filling the

blank anything. And as we got going, we were like, if I'm asking this question, and I know a lot of other women are also asking um these same questions, and so then we are will started turning like, well maybe we need to start something to yeah, absolutely think about it. And they played in the NFL for eleven years, so I met a lot of different women and we

all kind of went through the same things. We you know, we were always around each other, and so when they retired, I thought you know, I met some amazing women with these great voices, things that they want to discuss and talk about. It would be a idea to start a podcast and just get everyone to come together and connect to empower women and just discuss different topics that people may not know about they might find interesting. So T and I got together and I'm like, let's do it.

She was like, let's do it. And that was it. We were off to the races. So what's your mission, what's your aiming point, what's your goal with this? Well, you know, my goal is just to give women a platform to be able to come on and discuss different topics or things that they may have going on. Um. I leave it open, and I want them to feel comfortable going somewhere where they feel like it's a safe haven. They can say whatever they want to say and there's

no judgment. Um. And I want to actually have women on that are not just wives in the NFL, but also I want to talk about career with women in the NFL. You know, you have people in the offices that no one knows about. It'd be great too to put them out there and she let them share their stories how they got there. You know how long they loved football, how long they've watched and what made them decide to take the path of the NFL life. So a lot of women that I've met, I'd say, especially

t and I talked about this too in Seattle. Uh, we're amazing women and they were so helpful and their careers were you know, helpful to us as women as wives, and so why not celebrating. Yeah, And I think there's also a misconception that because we are NFL wives excuse me, NFL wives, that we don't experience anything. And so when we get we started getting the questions like, well, what's it like to be an NFL wife, And it's like the same thing is like to be the wife of

a banker, you know. Um, So it was good to kind of like show that we also struggle have similar issues and obstacles to face as other women, um, just from a different perspective. So, so, where do you guys see this going and how can otherwise connect or get involved with you guys? You know the skies and limit. We just hope to be able to reach everyone, to show women that are out there that there's a platform for us as well. Um, and as far as how they can reach us. Um. They can reach us via

insidelines podcast dot com. Um. We also have our email which is inside Lines podcast at gmail dot com. And they can hit us up on social media as well insidelines podcasts. So few few are ways to get in touch with us. Yeah, it's like we're always looking to have other women on to share their stories, but then to also talk about what they're going on. So we've experienced the kind of like putting our all into our families and our husbands, and now we're in this phase

of like rediscovering ourselves. And so everybody's journey is different. So it's pool would to listen to everybody's story, um, and to like just give inspiration um to the rest of the ladies. I want to talk about the extended NFL community with your ladies, which is very special and which most people don't pay attention to. Here's the first question. What circumstances led to YouTube meeting each other? You gonna take that to you. Yeah, we were both in Detroit.

Our our husband's play played together in Detroit, UM and UM, I remember going to every year like once this season, right before the season begins, they have a women's conference where they call all the women in, whether their wives, girlfriends, whomever. You come in, you meet everyone, you get to know people in that specific team, that community. So it's Detroit Lions for us. And I saw Teas sitting over there and she had this new baby, and I remember that.

I remember being a new mom and you know, trying to connect and not know anyone, and I just went over and introduced myself and I grabbed her baby. She probably that I was crazy I grabbed her baby. Not crazy at all, thankful, and I'm just started talking with her and getting to know her. And here we are, what ten years later? Yeah, So just a little bit

more background. Um Cliff was drafted in two thousand and eight, but we had a long distance relationship up into two thousand and eleven when I gave birth to my son. And this was Cliff was in a holdout situation like all these things, but reported the day after I gave birth. So here I am, like the beginning of August, just

a complete mess. And I get invited to this women's brunch and so she doesn't like which we talked about it, but I was a complete mess that day, scared I'm gonna be late, I don't know, baby, just like complete and utter mess. And when I sat down and she saw me and came over like I was like, you don't know. That was like a hug to me, you know, like I said, you in the city by yourself with this new baby. It was a mess. So she hasn't been able to me. Now, how do you find that connection? Toya?

If you're in the room, I know you you're drawing with the baby. But how do you encourage even new NFL wives, current wives, how do they connect with the tia how you connect with the Toya's You know, we talked about this a little bit on our podcast. We talked about, you know, having the courage to go up to someone and introduce yourself um. And then as far as you know veteran wives, you know, them reaching out and saying, hey, you know, do you new anything, what

do you need? What's going on? Um? And we even discussed a little bit about I think it's so important for teens to understand that everyone is new and so just to have like it would be great to have something for wives to look at and say, Okay, this is where I can find a doctor, this is where I could find sitters, you know, whatever it is that they needed, be nice to like reference something. Um. But it starts with just connecting with women and just friendships.

I think that is so important because we're all in the same boat. You know, we're living in this city, Tia. You know that we need each other. That's what it's about for me at least, And I would say that's something that Toya taught me. It's just it's important to reach out and like just be more cognizant of what's going on around you because sometimes we can get so tunnel vision and you know, we're going to training camp, are going to whatever, and you see people, but again

your tunnel vision, right. Um. But one thing of Toyo taught me, especially when I left Detroit and went to Seattle. When we came to Seattle, I was the old lady on the block. Now, so then it was me for you know, looking for the young ladies and bringing everybody together, um, welcoming everybody into our homes, are playing in social events, etcetera. Um. So connecting is important. Now. One thing, we know, you guys are now legends, your your husband's are retired. Right.

It's difficult a lot of times to stay connected. How have you guys stay connected now that the careers in the NFL are over. Yeah, so we decided to make Seattle our home. UM. And so Cliff Is it took him a minute to like really settle into I'm retired. He used to go to the facility twice a two or three times a week. Was every game. I was like, you know, you were retired, right. So we've been connected with current players. A lot of farmer Seattle Seahawks also

retired here. So it's been good because Cliff is also a seeker of knowledge, so he utilizes the NFL legends, like the NFL community and things like that, um more now than he did before. And so he's taken it back to the other players sharing and we, like you, we all just stay connected and stay involved with the team and the community out here. UM. I say, for me, you know, it's been interesting. My journey has been kind

of crazy. I think about the eleven years we played and then we finally decided we're going to just stay in Seattle, but then we ended up moving to Arizona because Nate started with NFL Network and then after a year there, they were like okay, and I was excited about being in Arizona, Let's be clear, because that's home for me. And for me it was huge because I've always been either with Nate's family or a way. So to finally be home back in Arizona and the sunshine,

I was like, cool, We're good retiring here. This is it is it? But then Nick Nate told me that NFL Network wanted him to move to New York to start Good Morning Football, and I was like, no, you go ahead, go, But we had this unspoken rule, actually it was a spoken role. We talked about it wherever, and it was wherever he went or wherever I went, like,

we go together. So we move our family together because we wanted to keep that um close knit you know, connection, and I wanted Nate obviously to be around the kids and vice versa. So um it was for me. It's been hard in the sense that I don't get to see as many people like Utia, like when you're saying a lot of people retiring in Seattle. But I have my my girlfriends, like lifelong girlfriends that we have our

group chats, we still talk, we still connect um. We try to get together at least once a year using around my birthday. I have like for my forty if we had what it was ten or twelve of us that all came together, different teams, different areas, and it's like we all knew each other because everyone was so amazing. These women are phenomenal, and I just that's exactly why I wanted to start the podcast in the first place.

I just wish everybody could see the different type of women in the NFL, the different you know, some women work, some women don't work, some women have their own businesses. It's just there's so much variety and amazing women that I feel like has always kept me connected to them. Well what part of Arizona are you from? So, and if I have a funny story for you? No, yes, So I was raised in Chandler, Arizona. Really yes, but I was always in sports. My dad always had me

in sports. So I played basketballronman track and um, I'll never forget. There was a kids it was a sports even and I always did this sports even every year. And they told me that someone was coming to speak, and in you walked, and I was probably at that time fourteen years old, and I listened to you speak, and you were so powerful and I really avoid you. And then fast forward I think it was two or three years later, I ended up working with UM at a it was a beauty salon and it was Vicky's

beauty line and Auratuki and you walked in again. So I've met you on and off like throughout my life. Yeah. You's when I they told me that you know, you were going to lead us to this podcast. I was like, oh, I know exactly who he is. I'm excited to see. That's awesome. So do you know Cam Cam Jordan's Yes, I know Cam m exactly, y' y'all rocket and right exactly. Yes,

all the work he's been doing is amazing as well. Yes, yes, sofl failings see men like your husband's being active in their communities, but with that, they rarely ever see the great player and his family. Here's a question, however, your families made community commitment a team effort. So we UM started a family foundation UM in two thousand and fourteen, where we've been like extremely active in the city of Jacksonville, which is where where Cliff is from the city city

of Seattle, but then also in Haiti. So Cliff's mom and dad are Haitian they were born in Haiti, came to the States and name Haighties and UM. When we got to Seattle, it had been brewing in Cliff's heart too. He really wanted to do something in Haiti. And we connected with UM, an organization called we by way of Marshawn because Marshaun had done some work with him in Africa. And we went down to Haiti adopted UM an orphanage UM, but also up to school and so we are like

head first in the community there. UM we always bring family members back with us because one I am I cannot speak Creo. So Cliff's family, uh you know, we made a family event like and even his family members that are still in Haiti. They would drive the two hours to Hinge where the school is, to UM help UM physically build a school. And then also in the city of Seattle, we get our kids involved. So we

adopted UM a local school here, low income school. And we do like mentoring groups, so we did back to school drives. We just UM did a driver and we gave the group the kids and our mentor and group

computers for virtual learning. So we always try to make it a team effort that I think the one thing that's difficult is like having kids that are humble, and so my kids are young four and nine, but it's good to like take them with us when we go to do Christmas shopping with all these kids, and with us when we are like mentoring the kids at the school, just so they can see that there's another side, um

to this life experience a toy. Describe how your work with Nate Uh, your work with't Neate to determine how to make the greatest impact possible in your community. How is that better? You know, I've always loved kids, and that's to me, that's huge, just giving back to the kids. Um My degree was an education, so um anything that

has to do with kids is huge. So for me, we at the beginning of the year, we always do a backpack UM giveaway and so we and like Tia said, you bring your kids to that because you want them to see and understand. We always try to do things as far as speaking with kids. When we went back to Arizona, we always spoke the Arizona cheated as the track team that I was on um and Uh. We always try to basically teach these kids that there are so many options that you may not be aware of.

But that's why people like you and he is or as we come along to give you you you know, just a different glips into something that you may not know about. Right. So, UM, that is so important to me. I told my kids it's so important to give back and they know that as far as giving to other kids and blessing other kids, it helps you to realize the lens is different everyone's eyes. I don't think you do that before, but um, in Detroit, you remember the

coke giveaway that they had every year. These kids and not have colts, so you're giving coats to kids and my kids were right out there. You have to push them to get out there and meet other kids and see kids because kids don't know, they only know what they see, right, So you bring them along and just help others to feel empowered and feel encouraged. I feel like it's so important m HM when it comes to making a difference with inside lines. What are your ongoing goals?

You know? Sorry, UM, I'm sorry, Yeah, ongoing goals would be UM, I definitely want to get more women on to do more panels. Um, there's it's great to have women on and to interview them to discuss things that go on in the NFL. But there's also like underlying issues that people need to discuss, whether it's mental illness, whe we've talked about, you know, women with postpartum depression, We've talked about so many different issues that people may

not know about. And it actually, I don't want to say humanizes, but some people see the glitz and the glamour in the NFL, right, and they think that's all is. But when you have women on their speaking about real life issues, UM discussing things that they may you know, people may not know that's going on, it kind of helps you to be relatable and women will reach out and say, oh my gosh, I went through that same thing. I'm out alone. Thank you for sharing, thank you for

your resources. So we want to be UM a place that people can speak out and most important, and we can share resources to help with it along the way as well. Absolutely, I think UM the main goal being storytellers UM, because the Toya's point is they see all the NFL players and they you know, they see Maid on TV and you know, doing all these things, and they just think that we don't have issues or obstacles and things like that. So even taking um, for example,

the racial climate that we're in. We did a panel this preseason where we brought women from across the NFL and we just talked about things that we experienced, things that our kids experienced at school, being at school with predominantly um white kids, and just the mental and emotional trials that they experienced in that, or the notion of oh, because you have money that no nobody discriminates against you,

or you don't have like those type of issues. So it's just been our goal is to just continue to be storytellers, to continue to humanize the US, the players, because especially with fantasy football, it's like you're just another token out there, you know. So I definitely want to be good storytellers. La. What did you enjoy most when your husband's were playing in the NFL? Oh, gosh, Um, so many things. Um, if I were to pick, well, obviously you enjoy game day, right, that's a given. The

charities were amazing. I learned so much in the NFL with charity, you know, the different charity events that we went through. I went to that I didn't even know existed. That was amazing. Um. But I would say most importantly, which is the reason kind of why I decided to do this, he knows, is the women. Like the connectivity and the friendships that we made were so phenomenal. It was so amazing. And um, you know, it's just like you guys in the locker room, you have your teammates.

You guys have your stories that you guys will never forget. You know, we have those same type of stories, um or whether we went to dinner, to a friend's house, we went to a concert. We have those same type of stories with our girls that will never forget. As well. What do you enjoy most now that your husband's are NFL legends, Well, I enjoy him actually being at home. So what we talked about, Toy and I talked about all the time is, you know, balancing kids is a lot.

In balancing the household and things like that, it's a lot in general. And UM, I think sometimes the guys kind of feel like, well, you guys aren't working, so you should be okay, And it's like, okay, try you know, let's switch roles. Um. And so we've been able to do just that, and so Nowcliff is like, okay, let's schedule in some me time, I'm like, yes, you got like you have to do that. I've enjoyed him being home.

But then also I told him when he retired, Um, it was one of one of the first times I was able to actually enjoy the game without being nervous until you know, to the clock expired. Um. So he's like, well you didn't enjoy it before. I'm like, it was a fun experience, but you're not being out out there on the field. It's like, I know you're gonna walk home with me and not end up in an ambulance,

which has happened through time. Wow. Wow. Alright, final question, what is the one essential thing all families must have in order to thrive in the NFL. Okay, I'm gonna say something that's very cliche, but I'm gonna say communication, because I think a lot um of things breakdown. You kind of drop a few balls when you don't communicate. And then there's also this thing that women experience that's like, Okay, the guys are so stressed being at work all day

every day. I don't want to burden him with whatever I'm experiencing at home. Um, And and that just starts to breathe like bitterness and just this heavy level of stress. But it's important that you communicate so everybody knows what's going on, and everybody you know, because he may give me a different perspective than what I was experiencing. So communication, Wow, what about you a toya? Well t took mine, but

I'll give you another one. Um, something that Net and I did and we still continue to do, not just with ourselves but with our kids. But um, date night,

Like we have date night every week. That is our time to come together, to connect, to talk about what's going on in each other's lives, to really spend time because when you're in the midst of the NFL and that life, everything is like this, right, and so sometimes you just need a minute to be grounded and look, you know your spouse in the eye and like talk to each other and you find something out like, oh that happened, I don't even know that you know, and

vice versa, and say with the kids, we always try to figure out one thing to take them to do, to hang out with them, to ask them questions. Um. And it sounds crazy, but that one day can change the whole perspective of everything going. So, UM, I just I've always felt like that's important. I still do to this day, even post NFL because Nate's still crazy busiest. We definitely still have those those connectivity date nights, family

nights so important. Yes, and date night goes on the calendar and it is not moved when family and friends come into town, right, because that's one thing too that can go to by the wayside um. So we have family and time is like, well, we still got day night, so you're all gonna have to figure it out tonight. All right. So here's a final question. What suggestion would you have for a legend's wife, our current uh player's wife who is going through challenges but need to be

able to share with somebody discreetly. How would you direct that wife? Where would you direct them? I would say for us, Um, we we were blessed and we were in Detroit. We had Anne Wilson, who was uh the ladies, uh kind of the ladies, you know they have the different chats on each team. Where she was the husband of Dave Wilson. So every Tuesday she had Bible study and we would all come and we would listen to her.

She listened to us. We would uh discuss whatever is going on, because you have these like minded women that can understand and relate to what you're saying. And Anne was always a great listening here. She gave a advice overlay across the board. So find someone that maybe that that the team has and I know some teams haven't, some teams don't, UM, but it's important to have that on every team. Just someone that you can relate to. TEA who do they have in Seattle when you were there? Um?

And Seattle we have miss Brown whose wife excuse me, whose husband played on the very first Seattle Seahawks team. Um, and she has been a godsend. But I will also say too, which this is like a two step process. So one, the code amongst the women is that whatever is shared, whether it's in Bible study or at dinner brunch, whatever, the net stays within the group. Right, It's not used against you at a later day. It's not to be

gossiped about or anything like that. So for the first thing would be to honor the code amongst the women. But I think that we kind of get into an issue of being too discreet, where you want to put on this rose colored lens like everything is together everything's okay, but it's in important to be vulnerable. It's important to make sure you have somebody like in Atoya, who I can go to a toy and tell her anything and she's gonna be like, Okay, well, we're gonna figure this out.

And this is You're gonna move this, do this, call this person, whatever the case may be. And so we have to kind of move out of the phase of being like two discreet and um get into a space where we actually trust each other and can trust the stories, the obstacles to issues that we face, so then we can really be a force out here. Yeah, having that girlfriend, because that's so true, right, Like we could go to each other about whatever and one of us was gonna

having that girlfriend is definitely important. Ladies, this has been an incredible podcast. Thanks so much for joining us once again. The podcast is called Insidelines and can be found at insidelines podcast dot com. Thanks for listening in. The best is yet to come. This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback or request the topic for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at NFL dot com. Yeah,