Ballerina

I'm Pete Wright.

And I'm Andy Nelson.

Welcome to the next reel, when the movie ends.

Our conversation begins.

Ballerina is over. Do you like to dance? I know a school where they teach dance. I could take you there if you like.

To stop the assassin, you must become the assassin. You will always be weaker. You will always be smaller. You want to win? Improvise. Adapt. Cheat. Welcome to the Continuum. Yves Macharo of the Rus' Aroma. What a pleasure to see you again. You have no idea what you just walked into. They killed my father. This isn't done until they're dead. Fate is a very humbling thing. You're him. The one they call the Baba Yaga. How do I start doing what you do? Looks like you already have.

Wow. You just you just perved out, Winston. Yep. More than anyone ever needed to.

I sure did. Perveroony. Oh, ballerina. We're kicking it off with ballerina. How did we get here?

Okay. So so we're covering this for two reasons. One, because we did the John Wick series, and now that there's a new movie out, we decided let's add on this new this new film to that series of episodes that we had already discussed, John Wick one through four, and here we are doing ballerina. Also, we're, you know, part of the process of this whole the rest of 2025 really is we're kind of celebrating a 100 of I mean, movies have been around longer than a hundred years, but we're celebrating films from the last one hundred years, and we're starting and we're going backwards, or we're starting in 2025 celebrating this film, and then we'll jump back twenty five years in increments for our next few series. So, anyway, here we are with Ballerina.

And that's the thing. I mean, you're the one who brought that level of planning and insight. My series were not so nearly so appropriate to the theme, but I love that I get to ride along.

You you get to come along for the ride. Exactly. So

This is what the season's gonna feel like. Thoughtful Andy. Thoughtful Andy. Thoughtful Andy. ADHD Pete.

Anyway, here they have a podcast for that, Pete.

I don't know anything about that.

Check it out. Okay.

So first, let's just do a reset a little bit about the John Wick cinematic universe. And the the central question I wanna get to is this. Were you looking forward to the John Wick universe expanding beyond the Wick franchise itself. And and I I could also say, referring to the Continental on Peacock and now Ballerina, was this something that you wanted and expected and were excited about?

I don't think I wanted it, expected it. It was something that they I think the the studio, the the producers, and the the team over at Lionsgate felt that this franchise was a big surprise and a big success for them, and they wanted to keep it going. And, you know, I think, Chad Stahelski and and Keanu Reeves really felt like it had kind of run its course, and ending the way John Wickford did felt like a good finality to that storyline. And we kind of see John go through that whole process of revenge over four films, and they felt like it ended where it needed to end. But as studios are, you know, there's the creative side of things, and they felt this was a great way to end it.

Yeah. My god. You guys, did you forget we're capitalists?

We can make so much more money from this. Let's keep it going. So, yeah, so they had the continental series, which, you know, sounds like Chad Stahelski really wasn't involved with, and it it doesn't sound like because of that reason, it sounds like it kind of fell apart quite a bit. And then we'll talk about the crazy level of planning that they're currently doing for sequels and remakes because there potentially are a lot. I don't know if that's changed with the release of this film and how it's how it's doing in theaters, but they are intending on quite a bit of things.

I think I got more excited when I found out early on that they were doing this with Ananda Armas. I think she has a a stunt fight bit in the latest James Bond movie that I thought was beautiful and elegant and showcased a physicality of hers that I think was was just exceptional. I thought it was beautifully made. So I got really excited about it. Also, I have been a huge fan of the range that she's been able to bring from Knives Out, which I thought she was great and and had a really sort of subdued performance, subdued and panicked and and anxiety ridden and also kinda dominating by the end.

I just wanna continue that thought first because it's an interesting element.

Had you not considered that?

Oh, no. No. I Okay. I I I definitely think that, but I think that it's interesting just to kind of, like, look at the idea of these franchises that that are being made, and especially when they are the foundation of the franchise is a person. Jason Bourne, we kind of had a struggle when Bourne Legacy came out even though it's still kind of in that world.

Right. Okay.

Thoughts on thoughts on the film?

It's I there's so much of this movie that I think is is solid. Like, the way the movie moves is generally good if clumsy. The stunts, the fights, that's what I show up for this movie for, were good. They were generally good. Were they what I think exceptional as in the rest of the John Wick franchise?

No. I didn't. I didn't have any issues with with that stuff. I I felt it was fine. It's it's all this strange underground universe that we're buying into.

But Derek Kolstad has moved on to, like, nobody. Right? I mean, it feels I know he's still involved in John Wick very much, but he's also, like, he is a very capable originator of these ideas.

Yeah. Right. And so now this is Shay's single entry. Since Derek, this is the first the first script of this franchise that has had a solo story credit writer, screenwriter credit to it. Right.

So we have an we have a solo writer and a new director.

Well and but, you know, an interesting thing about this, and this is I I don't know if this fits into this, but this was one of these scripts. I mean, Shay had written this script. It was a spec script called ballerina. Lionsgate decided to shoehorn it into the John Wick franchise. They liked the tone of it so much that that's why they brought him on to do to work on chapter three and chapter four.

Okay. I mean, when you're watching that, do you feel it?

I don't think I feel it so much because I mean, I don't know. Who knows? Maybe because of this script, that's why they added the Rusca Roma and the ballerina stuff that we saw in John Wick chapter three, Parabellum. And they said, let's kind of use this script as the foundation for this whole idea. I don't know.

This is one of those movies where we again, we've taken on this question before, and I think that this movie is actually one of the more successful explorations of shoehorning an alternate unintended script into an existing universe. I did not feel like like this was just jammed in here. It actually felt of a piece with John Wick. It felt like an intentional exploration of this expanded universe. And, sure, some of that has to do with the extended reshoots and changes, but the overall feeling and the way they integrated the timeline, I thought was really weirdly charming.

I I didn't really have any issues with that, although I did have a question because so this takes place we like, at the point in John Wick chapter three where he is has turned in his, you know, get out of jail free card essentially to the Ruscaroma so that he can get away and and flee the country. And that's what that's what sends him off to to Africa. And and he has been, ex ex communicado as we recall from that film. Yet, why is it okay for the director, Angelica Houston's character, to then still call him for help? And so that was so there there were I actually have a series of questions, like story questions that

I Alright.

That I had, and that's one of them. It's like, why was that okay? Because I thought he's excommunicado. So is this an illicit call to John that that no one else is aware of? I mean, obviously, the cult is like another group that everyone knows about. So I'm assuming if they see John, they're just gonna tell everybody, hey. The director called John on us, and he's excommunicado. I don't know.

Well, yeah, I don't I think you have a really good that's a good question. A good foundational question. And I didn't spend a whole lot of time trying to unravel those particular questions. That one in particular felt to me like and I'm sure this is faulty logic. Like, wasn't excommunicado. It just means he is like, he can't count on her for help, and everyone's out to to get him, and he can't go into the Continentals. But that doesn't mean he can't be called upon to clean up a mess.

I think your writing re like, version of it in your head is exactly probably what they said in their writer in the as the writing team or as Shay was

Which and let's be clear. That's sloppy. Right? For for a universe that is generally pretty meticulous, that's a little bit sloppy and hand wavy, but that's what was in my head. I didn't have a huge problem with it.

Alright. So other questions I have. Do want me to just go through these?

Yeah. Let's do let's do this. Okay. This is good.

Okay. So at the we see okay. So the story is set up It's hard

to even ask the questions. Questions.

No. No. I just I feel like I've gotta do some setup. Right? Yeah.

Well, that's interesting because, again, headcanon. I got the feeling that this was considered their mess, the cult's mess, and they were going to take action to clean it up.

Wait. Wait. What what this being Javier or this being

Javier kidnapping the girl and trying to escape. And so given other things that are naturally taken care of in the John Wick universe, that that would have been written into the doctrine of the thousand years of peace. We're gonna take care of our own business, and you can't, like, you can't judge grudge us for that. This is considered our business. We're gonna take care of it.

So the fact that Javier, even though he's Roscaroma, the fact that he kidnaps or he and his wife, presumably together, they try to make off with their daughter. The wife gets caught and killed for this. And so

But she was cult.

But she was cult. It's just it's odd that Ruscaroma still has no say in that situation when they kill one of Ruscaroma's own.

I'll I'll give you odd. I'll give you unexplained. But I also think that they saw the girl as cult property, and they wanted their property back.

Right. But, again, that that in no way should it allow them to get away with killing one of Ruscaromas in this so called thousand years of peace.

Yeah. But what is peace between factions of murderous assassins? Right?

Yeah. I know. That's it's all very odd.

Okay. What's your next question?

So she does I love that

these questions have put me defending this wacky movie. This is great. I love this.

Yeah. So early in the film, once the once we've met Eve and she's started this world of becoming a an assassin, we see her go on a on a hit. Or let's see. Is it the hit, or is it when now see, it's been long enough where I've seen this. I'm trying to remember. She comes stumbling out of the bar or wherever she had been in, and the cult immediately, like, starts attacking her. Like, they they hit her with a car, and then they jump out, and they're all trying

to kill her.

Right? Do you remember this scene? Was this

before or after the ice dance club?

The dance club, I think, is

That was her first mission where she's sent to protect to get this girl.

Right. So she protects the girl. This is later. And and it starts like she had just finished killing everybody. Right? So we see her in, a bathroom or something like herself, and then we see that there's dead bodies on the floor.

Yeah. She comes out and is just littered

with dead Dead bodies. Bodies. So she sees everybody, and then she walks outside, and that's when she's crossing the street. And this car comes out of nowhere and just hits her, and then they try killing her. And that's when she learns that these are members of the cult. Mhmm. Why, at this point, are they trying to kill her? Like, it literally looks like they're targeting her, and there's nothing that had been set up as to why they would be targeting her at this particular point in time.

Okay. Headcanon response. The the place where all the bodies are were all cult members. That's why they're all dead. She was in a cult facility.

Ah, but that wouldn't make sense because she's on a mission per the director, and the director knows that there is this long standing truce that they have with the cult. They're not gonna go in and kill anybody that's cult.

Oh, Andy, you might have me on that one. See? You might have me on that one. What I was going to say is the assassin Uber was late for those last guys. They just were tardy for the party. Okay. Alright. But I don't I think you've I think you're right. You you one upped me. You went one step back, and that she would have known why would she have done this.

I don't know. I don't know. I I struggled with that one.

We'll call that one a wash. Alright. What's your next question?

This was a weird one. She goes into the continental to to protect this guy. This is Norman Reedus' character who's he's also an assassin, and he he is the son of the chancellor, who is Gabriel Byrne, who runs the cult. He's trying to escape with his daughter, but

the cult wants them back. So she's mirror of exactly what happened twenty years ago.

Right. Exactly. So she's in here. She's gonna kill him, and then she sees the the kid and is like, oh, I guess I can't do this now. Other people use this as an excuse to come in and start shooting the place up. Right? And they're cult members. Not just cult members, but all sorts of assassins. Like,

there's this all It was the she had upped the bounty on him from 2 to 4,000,000, which meant everybody wanted a piece of that.

Everybody wants to kill this guy now. So everyone's going after Daniel, and two in particular that break into the room first to start doing it. Nobody ends up getting killed, but they do this moment where, continental security, after this whole thing is over and and she's helped Daniel and his daughter escape, continental security has her and these other two people held, and they end up killing these other two because I thought it was because blood had to be spilled that they would actually do this. Like, they talk about killing like, anyone who's killed somebody on the grounds of the continental has to die. These two people didn't kill anybody.

I think so. I think it's playground rules in the continental. That's what it is. They started it, and so they're dead.

Alright. Alright. Here's another one. What is it about the what why is everybody so secretive about the cult? They seem fine talking about the high table or all of these other different groups. But when it comes to the cult, they're like, oh, we don't we don't talk about the cult.

Do you know this one this is I I wonder about this one. So what they're trying to set up is that the cult is somehow prime among peers in terms of killers. They are the most dangerous.

Are they trying to set that up?

I well, I thought so. Like, that that was the only reason I could buy that they were so terrified of the cult, was that they were the most, like, unprincipled violent group. And if you poke them, you're poking the dragon bear owl wolf, and it would come for you in the night. It was the scariest of the scary, which is weird because all of the other factions are also giant groups of assassins who are well trained. In fact, those are the groups that principally or or presumably trained every member of the cult because aren't they all retirees of the other families?

I didn't think that. Did they say that? That this was the cult

that I thought that's what that was.

I didn't think it was a town where people retired. I thought it was just their own weird little cult town where it's it's just like, you know, that town in northern the border of Northern Arizona next to Utah where that cult guy, like, has all the like, everyone there is, like, you know, having babies for the one guy. It's like these creepy sorts of towns, and I just thought they were trying to make it a sense that this particular town exists because the cult lives there.

Right. The antagonist group led by Gabriel Burns, the chancellor, functions less like a traditional religious cult and more like a doomsday cabal of retired killers. These are the people who have become disillusioned with the High Table's rule, and instead of disappearing quietly, they form their own shadow society. Their ideology appear is built around purging the world of corrupted operatives, those who defy the rules or stray from purpose like Eve. That's what the cult is.

Well, it's just it's odd is what it is. I don't know. It's it especially because, like, I don't know. I I I struggle with it because it just doesn't really make any sense. But, you know, this is a strange world anyway. I don't know if if that makes it any worse or just stranger for me.

Many of these cult members were once part of the same assassin ecosystem, trained in arts like ballet, combat, and etiquette, naturally the big three, and have since radicalized. This is the evolution in the John Wick mythology, the idea that the underworld isn't just an economy of blood, but a belief system. And belief systems, when fractured, give rise to extremism. Are you on the John Wick wiki? I love wiki fandom pages.

The the John Wick one is pretty robust.

So I think that they're they're trying something new. Now the question is, does the cult live beyond this movie?

I mean, I feel like now that it's been brought up, they'll probably mention it in passing, I'm sure. You know? It's just one of these things where these these different elements kind of keep popping up in one way or another. I don't know if it needs to be brought up in a big way, but I don't know why it wouldn't be, you know?

Yeah. Okay. There you go.

Alright. My my last question. How does Winston end up at the police station in the first place? Like, was he tracking her? Like, what what about that moment makes sense as far as him just showing up suddenly to to pick up little little girl Eve at the beginning after her she escapes when they kill her dad?

I think the question that question is important, but also kind of answered in the fact that Winston, as the proprietor of the continental, is sort of a character of magical realism. Right? There's there's stuff that he's allowed to know because of his network and his system that we don't get to see, but it makes him look like an oracle.

It does.

So I I I honestly never questioned why he ended up there because he kinda knows everything that happens in the world of assassins. So why wouldn't he know that there was this attack and that the girl survived and that he could maybe make use of her someday?

I can see that. I also think that there's some level where some of these different parties can use Winston as a vessel for getting things done because he's

Yes.

Theoretically neutral. Right? Right. And it's entirely possible that even though there's this thousand year piece in this, there's still kind of this conflict between Ruscaroma and the cult, particularly because the cult killed this Ruscaroma member, Javier, it's entirely possible that the director had been kind of tracking all of that and told Winston, I need you to go pick up Eve and bring her here. Like, that's possible.

Yeah. It's all part of the network that Winston is kind of at the middle of.

Although now I'm trying to remember, when she first is dropped off at the ballet school, does the director act like she knows who she is? I can't remember now.

That's a good question. I I don't remember having seen it just the once. I don't remember how she was affected. Okay. Mostly because how could you tell anything about how Angelica Houston was affected in this movie? She made no face motions.

She was fine. Yeah. I I just enjoy still seeing Angelica Houston. I've always enjoyed her, but yeah. And it's just I don't know. I kind of always chuckle when I see her in this particular franchise because of everything she's done. This just seems like such a an odd turn for her. But

Yeah. I think so.

Yeah. But I kind of enjoy it. So yeah. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about just the story and I mean, a lot of these questions were the story and issues with the story, but also some of the direction. And then I I think that we definitely wanna talk into some of the stunt work because that's clearly what this franchise is probably most known for.

Yes. The big the principal big stunt scenes.

I mean, I know you struggled with the script, but as far as the plot and the basic concept of it, do you kind of buy into this revenge story that she has?

Yes. Because I'm a sucker for John Wick revenge stories. I really am. And and so I don't think that some of the quibbles that you just brought up, they didn't hit me because I was I allowed myself to get very much into this movie. And the fact that it was a parent child kind of a rescue, it felt it felt like something easy to believe that Eve would get, you know, sucked into it to the point that she would violate norms that have been set up in the universe.

I I I think I largely agree with you. I enjoyed the story, the concepts of this. Again, I felt like Shay had done an able job of adapting his previous script into this world. Like, I felt like this felt like it kind of fit in with all of this, and so I enjoyed this different revenge story that that we had and the way that it played. I definitely do have some of these like, the quibbles are gonna be ones that will always pop up in my head as I rewatch this because things just aren't necessarily always gonna make sense.

I know. I know. And and it's it's really interesting because I think, after the John Wick movies, I think so highly of Chad Stahelski. And knowing that there were three of reportedly, months three months of reshoots with Stahelski uncredited at the helm and Weissman not involved at all. You know, of course, now we're getting what could be dubious reporting and rumors.

Yeah. And, you know, it's always tricky when you hear these stories because, yeah, there were stories about several works of reshoots, and Stahelski, two to three months of reshoots, refilming the majority of the movie without Wiseman around. But then they both refute it saying it's just two weeks of additional photography, and Stahelski oversaw it with Wiseman. You hear all these different kind of conflicting reports. And I think to some extent, it's the studio media managing to make sure that everything sounds copacetic and that things are gonna all be okay to get people to come to see the film instead of making it sound like a disaster.

It makes us cynical, I think, for thinking that, but I wonder that too. That this was a move that came because they didn't have faith in the original direction.

Although, as I as I look, it looks like Kanner Reeves was one of the early people that had said was gonna be coming back to kind of continue. But who knows? Was he involved in that final fight, or was it just the moment in the in the ballerina school? I don't know.

You know what I hate so much about it is that I wanted Eve to be a badass. I wanted her to be a complete badass. I wanted her to be sufficient to do the final stuff without aid of John Wick in a sniper nest. Right? And we didn't get that, and that felt so catty. Right? It was just like like, why? Why did we not get that opportunity to see her ultimately succeed without aid and and pay the price?

Well, we but you're making it sound like he contributed a lot more to the aid than than he really did. Like, she does most of the work.

Contributing at all is my problem.

He only kills one person. Right? Isn't there just one moment when someone is coming up and and that's it? Otherwise, I think she's she does prove herself pretty able. So, I mean, I I can see that point.

Let's start with because we're in the Alpine, environment. Let's start with the Alpine restaurant duel. This is the plate fight, the legendary plate fight. What this is one of the things that I thought was was really fun and kind of frivolous is having them go after each other with plates. Reportedly, this was one of the hardest fight scenes to film from a production perspective because the breakaway plates kept breakaway breaking away too easily, and they kept re loot running out of plates.

It's a fun sequence, and I enjoyed like, that was a moment that really helped give us a sense of what we're about to experience in this place where she shows up and suddenly everybody's eyeing her, and then we learn they're not running out of the place away from the fight. They're going to get ready so they can come back and participate. Like, I enjoyed that. I had a lot of fun. And and this fight, I thought, just gave us a real interesting sense of the introduction to this town.

Yes. And I I mean, you're absolutely right. They all run away. But one of the nice things about that entire sequence, her introduction to the town, is that around every corner in that chase up and down that mountain hillside, there is another person hanging laundry or something like that who happens to have a gun in their belt. Like, they're all crazy armed, and that level of fun and surprise, I thought, was really well executed.

I can't imagine accidentally driving through this town.

Yeah.

Like, being a tourist, like, especially on this particular day to come driving through and, like, what the hell? Where are the police? There's, like, people all over trying to shoot each other.

While we are talking about cold things, let's go to the completely out of order, the icy club sequence.

Yeah. The first real

Yeah.

Job that she's given.

Right.

Which fits very much into the style that we've had with some of these John Wick films of creating this look of these clubs that have fantastic, like, blues and purples and pinks, neon, and just the whole thing glows and creates this this atmosphere that I think is it's almost become kind of a key part of the this franchise of having a scene like that.

Yeah. For sure. And I think, you you know, this is the one she also is using ice gates as weapons.

No. That's later when she's in the little boathouse in Hallstatt.

You're right. Which was also fantastic. Like, that was a really inventive kind of use. And and I think it does one of the things that Wick does very well is it makes it look hard for the our protagonist to do their job. Like, she was stumbling and sliding around and still able to ultimately do it.

Yeah. And it wasn't like, you know, the crazy stunts or anything. Like, it was fine. It was it was fun, and we just are essentially watching her kind of complete her mission of protecting this heiress that she's set out to do. And it it plays fine. Like, it's a it's a beautiful location, and they made it look good, and it worked.

One of my favorite sort of sequences in a sequence was the grenade fight. What'd you think of that?

That was another. Yeah. The grenade fight was fantastic. Like, the whole idea of using those to fight. This was when she goes to the the weapons guy, and and they go into his back room.

Same thing with the table flip shot. That was extraordinary. Don't know

how it's it's interesting. This is a world where as long as there's something between you and the grenade, apparently, it's it's not going to damage the thing between the two of you. And also, the noise is apparently also not going to blow out your eardrums. Like, apparently, like, you're totally fine as long as there's something between you and that grenade.

Andy, surviving all of that is why she was sent to ballerina school. That's what they learned. It's about all ballerinas are equipped to handle that.

How to strengthen your eardrums. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. It's pas de deux and how not to blow out your eardrums with a grenade.

And a grenade fight.

And Bloody Totes. Also that. Okay. Love love love that. The Eve John Wick duel.

This was something that I was wondering if, you know, was part of the reason that they wanted to do some reshoots because they felt like they wanted to have John Wick in some action. You know, I thought it played fine in the scope of the story. I could buy into it. Sure. He's he's been sent to assassinate her.

our problem. Have a snack.

Yeah. So it it was fine. It it does make me wonder as we continue if we continue the sequels in this world, are we going to keep hitting this point where they're like, yeah. But we need to get John in here, and they need to fight at least once.

Yeah. Is that sustainable? Right. I I wonder. I like the fight because it is this combination of action and sort of mentorship, weirdly. Like, we've already had that exchange with how with her asking him much earlier in the film, how do I do what you do? And he says, looks like you already are. Yeah. I don't know how he knows that. Like, she really is just dancing and falling on her ass all the time.

Well, that's yeah. I think that's the thing is, like, I don't think he does because I think he recognizes her as somebody who's like him just looking for resolution to something that, you know, somebody else brought upon him, and and so he wanted his revenge, and and he recognizes that in her, and I think he's hesitant. And so I think, yeah, I I absolutely think that he could have taken her out very easily if he wanted to, but I think that's just, you know, part of his character. Fair. Fair.

I think the the measure for me is if I'm gonna sit down and watch the John Wick franchise, as I am known to do, will I throw this movie in the continuity? And the answer is absolutely yes. Like, I will. It's it's part of it. It's part of John Wick's story. It's part of the universal progression. And, yeah, I'm I'm I'll watch it again for sure. Is it but like you said, is it is it great? No. It's not great. But is it worthy?

Sure. Yeah. I think it's I think it's fine.

Sure. It stands.

And I'm curious to see if they continue it.

Hope they do. I didn't I I still haven't watched the Continental. It got a little bit panned in my social circle of entertainers.

Well, Chance Stahelski himself panned it. He was pretty verbose about his opinion on the decisions that they made with that and the fact that he was not really even consulted for any creative opinions or anything. And this just kind of like, they went on and did it, and it is what it is. But he was Did you watch it? I didn't.

Yeah. I feel like one of us should take that on.

Go for it.

You're not gonna

I'm not gonna do it.

Fight me over it. Please. Will you please fight me over it? Do you know what this didn't. We also didn't mention the flamethrower sequence. Like, the big finale sequence we didn't talk about.

It's absolutely gorgeous. I mean, it was a stunning sequence to watch of just this massive amount of flame shooting at people. Like, I I loved watching the sequence. It was just glorious. And again, just goes to show that they really pushed to to up their game with their different stunt sequences.

And I was I was just listening to to Smartless. And oh my goodness. It wasn't Stahelski who's the other big time stunt guy that we talk about sometimes. That's gonna hurt my head. Anyway, he was talking about how just the the technological advancement to these old school stunts like falls.

It's interesting because there has been so much evolution in the world of film as we've talked about. I mean, the effects world is constantly finding ways to evolve and improve and and do things so that you don't necessarily need to have like, put actors at risk on sets and things like that, and you can just do some things with CG. But then you have the flip side of that where people want to still see real things happening. And so, yeah, you also are having similar evolutions in the world of stunts. And I think that's exciting because it allows for some incredible creativity when you come down to things like this.

There you go. That's who I was talking about.

Okay. Well, we'll be right back. But first, our credits.

The next reel is a production of True Story FM, engineering by Andy Nelson, music by Soleil Fleur, Cero Will van DiCromere, Oriole Novella, and Eli Catlin. Andy usually finds all the stats for the awards and numbers at the -numbers.com, boxofficemojo.com, imdb.com, and wikipedia.org. Find the show at truestory.fm. And if your podcast app allows ratings and reviews, please consider doing that for our show. Right.

If all of these happen is always the question. Like I said earlier, it's like the Star Wars sequels. It's like, are they ever gonna make half the ones that they've mentioned? Who knows? So far, this is what we've heard about.

Not if he comes back a cyborg, Andy. Right.

I know. There's always there's always

another family, the Ruska robots.

They've talked about ballerina two. That's the one I'm most curious about if they're actually going to drop it if this one doesn't succeed as well as they want it to. They've talked about a crossover film, several crossover films. One with the world of atomic blonde, the other with the world of nobody.

Okay. Has there been another any atomic blonde universe movie?

No. Just Atomic Blonde. Right?

No. Just the one, and they should stop. It's great. It's a better movie than this one.

Alright. Let me keep going. Yeah. You keep going. They're they've talked about potentially a Sofia film. You know, this would be I think they really loved the dog work that revolved around her and her dogs in John Luke chapter three, and so they wanted to kind of continue that. They've also mentioned the Bowery King film following his world of kind of like the homeless world of

Homeless assassins.

Homeless assassins. And last but not least is another TV series potentially called John Wick Under the High Table. And I think the idea with this one was that it was going to be a further exploration of where things go with the High Table after the end of John Wick chapter four, as far as, like, the control and who's running things. And I think that was the idea for that one.

I can see that actually. I could see that being kind of a succession style power broker show.

Yeah. I that would exactly be what it would how it would play. And I think that if Stahelski is involved and behind it and kind of involved in kind of the plotting and planning, maybe it would be worth it to watch. You know?

Yeah. Okay. How is it, let's see, doing in award season? Do we is there anything worth talking about yet?

Surprisingly, there already is. It's already had one win with one other nomination at the Golden Trailer Awards. This just happened. I'm not exactly sure when their window of time was, but it crossed over enough where their trailer was nominated for best action trailer. And it won best action trailer, and then it was also nominated for best summer twenty twenty five blockbuster trailer, but it didn't win that one.

Of course.

Well, apparently, they were jealous of the Saturn Awards getting all the the buzz for all of their great praise that they were doing for genre films. Well, the Critics Choice now have what is called the Critics Choice Super Awards, which is it because of superhero films? I don't know. It's the really the stupidest stupidest name. Anyway Oh, dear.

Fascinating. Yeah. Okay. Well, here's where we talk about numbers that I imagine we probably don't know enough about yet.

Yeah. Well, Wiseman had 90,000,000 to make his addition to the WikiVerse. It's been a while since we covered this series, but as a refresher, the first one cost 30,000,000, the second and third, 40,000,000 each, and the fourth one cost 90,000,000 just like this one. Was that a risky budget for the first film of the franchise to not feast feature John Wick as the lead? It remains to be seen as it's still in theaters.

Is there a rough way to guess prints and advertising costs based on production costs of the film?

Sometimes they say, you know, you know, half it, and it's that much. Sometimes they say double it. It's all over the place as far as what it can be. With big budget movies in particular, they say it could be as big as the budget for the film was. So, I mean, it could be another it could be a 180,000,000 total that they're looking to even break even.

That's what I'm I'm wondering. And I'm wondering it it we're at an interesting time because, again, as we record this, f one just came out, and that is reportedly a very expensive movie on the production side. And if you have been awake in the last three weeks, you realize just how expensive this movie has been on the P and A side. They have put a massive amount of money into advertising this thing in domestic and in in TV and digital ads, in the haptic trailer that you can watch on your iPhone, in social media, in trailers, in putting you know? I mean, it's just been an extraordinary tour of expenditures for that movie.

Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, I had fun with this one. It's it fits, you know, roughly into this universe for me. It made me ask a lot more questions than I should have been asking when I watch a movie like this. And so that's frustrating, but I still had fun. And I guess that's where I landed with it.

Me too. I'm right there with you. I I had a good time in spite of a pretty significant quibble, and it makes this for me, oof. Lowest of the low, but still good.

Yeah. Alright. Well, we'll be right back for our ratings. But first, here's the trailer for next week's movie. Continuing our celebration of films released the last hundred years, we're jumping back twenty five years to the year 2000 to kick off our Silver Screams twenty five years of Ju On series, starting with Ju On, the curse.

Letterboxd, Andrew. Letterboxd.com/thenextreel. That's where you can find our HQ page, and this is where we assign stars and hearts that have been meticulously accounted for across the arc of our lives in measuring, rating, and reviewing film. And as we know, there are a limited number of stars, and you have to say where you're taking stars away to write this movie. It's still carrying on. What are you gonna do with it, Andy?

I'm gonna give it three stars. Three stars in a heart. I had fun with it. You know, it's it's an enjoyable film. It's got some parts that, you know, I struggle with, but it's still gonna be an easy one to revisit. So three stars in a heart feels appropriate.

It's exactly where I am too. Exactly where I am. Those two stars, they fall from the script, but, everything else was solid. I had a good time.

Yeah. Well, that averages out to three stars in a heart over at our account on Letterbox at the next reel. You can find me there at soda creek film, and you can find Pete there at Pete Wright. So what did you think about ballerina? We would love to hear your thoughts. Hop into the ShowTalk channel over in our Discord community where we will be talking about the movie this week.

When the movie ends

Our conversation begins.

Letterbox get it, Andrew.

As letterboxed always doeth.

Alright. What are you gonna do? How'd you pick? Got some very fresh ones.

Well, yeah. I I mean, considering it's only been out for two weeks, there's they're all pretty fresh. Went with a three star by Bobby Wagner right up the line where I was, and who said, sometimes you just have to watch a beautiful woman shoot people in the head for two hours.

Alright. You took mine. That was good. That was it. That was a steal.

Exactly. That's all

I have to say. Thanks, Letterboxd.