Is Keir Starmer Britain's Joe Biden?

This is a Global Player Original Podcast. The Prime Minister Kirstal has just finished his conference speech in the conference hall here in Liverpool. We have been surrounded by a sea of flags, of St George's flags, the Soltire and the Welsh flags.

Dragon, it was a not so subtle embodiment of what this speech was all about. The attempt by Labour and Keir Starmer to wrest back the mantle of patriotism from the forces he described as the politics. And in terms of delivery of the speech, this was probably I think one of Keir Starmer's best, but given the headwinds this government faces, when people leave Merseyside, is it going to make any substantial difference to Labour's position in the country. Welcome to the news agents.

The news agents. Free speech is a British value and we have guarded it for centuries. But if you incite racist violence and hatred, that is not expressing concern. It's criminal. And Mr. And conference. If you say or imply the people cannot be English or British because of the colour of their

The mixed heritage families owe you an explanation. The people who've lived here for generations, raised their children here, built their lives here, working in our schools, our hospitals, running businesses, are our neighbours. If you say they should now be deported, then mark my words. We will fight you with everything we have because you are the enemy of national renewal. It's John, it's Lewis, and that was Keir Starmer.

the Labour Party Conference with his keynote speech and it was a sort of classic of the genre in some ways in that you present two competing visions, the high road, the low road, good, bad. And it was framed in terms of Labour good, in the renewal it wants for Britain and a United Nation and a United Kingdom and bad.

With Nigel Farage showing division as you go. And I suppose the remarkable thing, just to underscore how much our politics has changed in the last year, I don't even remember last year Keir Starmer mentioning Nigel Farage in his conference. And here he was the

Absolute centre of the argument that Keirstama wanted to make and was calling it, you know, a fight for the soul of our country. Indeed, I mean Keir Starmer in this speech legitimized an idea which had sort of been positive before, but he basically

basically made Nigel Farage leader of the opposition. Indeed, I think it must have been the first Prime Minister speech or leader speech of a Prime Minister at a party conference for some time when the leader of the opposition was not even mentioned, the actual leader of the opposition, Kemi Baydnock.

Uh Starmer didn't get many laughs in his speeches, but he got a decent laugh when he mentioned at one point the Tories Remember Then. Big laugh from the crowd. And that was fifty minutes in. And that was fifty minutes in. So you're right, John. In a way, this speech reflected and crystallised the extraordinary political environment that we're in and the extraordinary space that we've moved.

In such a short length of time. And look, I think that's there's so many sort of things to say about this speech, it and it it's so interesting. And on the positive side for a start, I think that's this was easily the most forceful we have seen Starmer.

in a sense expressing some of the politics that he most deeply has, right? The truth about Keir Starmer is that in some senses I mean he's right, his opponent's right, he's a London lawyer, right? And I think it is clear that quite a lot of the kind of Traditional liberal politics that exist within him that Repeatedly throughout his leadership he's often suppressed or tried to pretend wasn't there. It was on full display in this speech, right?

Don't try and loved me in with your sadness. Well you were there too. You were there. I saw you taking all your little notes like a little geek. Most people don't listen to the whole speech, right? So they don't care whether it coheres or not. What I think was clearly most notable and will be a win for them and marks a significant shift in approach is the bit other bits like we've just heard where Starmer was offering

A clear rebuttal and rejection of the sort of politics, populist politics, what he called the politics of grievance that Nigel Farage, he says, has and reform has. And you know, you gotta think, what an ex- you know, rejecting racism. them rejecting the sort of, you know, far right kind of accusations, the way they've seized the flag, all of these sorts of different things. You gotta think, you know, only a week ago or a couple of weeks ago, we had government ministers who were reluctant to come

on the airwaves and condemn people for going to a Tommy Robinson march, reluctant to even discuss whether he's far right or whatever it happens to be. Only a week ago we had the government reluctant to say that reforms proposals on indefinite leave to remain, which are literally deporting people who have a legal right to be here, the government reluctant to engage in a values-based critique of those proposals, right? Fast forward a week and you've got

Keir Starmer offering an articulation, a defense if you like, of liberal Britain, of he didn't use this word, but a form of multiculturalism of a sort of Britain that I think he is most comfortable. And that is a marked shift very quickly and those clips. Will travel. And for a certain constituency part of Britain, I think they will feel, a sort of more liberal Britain, will feel that their values, for the first time in some time, are being defended and articulated.

by Keir Starmer and Tenders. But aren't a lot of people gonna say about Bloody Time Two. I mean a lot a lot of activists is gonna say about Bloody Time too that you took the fight to reform, but he also took the fight Rydw i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl, i'n meddwl.

that Starmer was quite effective there of saying to those people who say we shouldn't be concerned about immigration saying bloody right we should be concerned about immigration. It's unacceptable that people are coming in illegally, but also making the point that, you know

These people are our neighbours and these people, you know, that they don't get kicked out of the country as Nigel Farage has sort of suggested with this reform of indefinite leave to remain. And I think that That was kind of effective and what Starmer wanted to do, and I think we'll give Labour ministers, MPs a clearer argument. That they need to make about what it is that he stands for. I think the thing we were also talking about though was.

Disjunction between on the one hand keep on saying Britain is not broken, Britain is not broken, Britain is not broken, look at all the ways that Britain is not broken, and then saying, but we ni urgently need national renewal. First point. The approach to reform that Starmer and Labour have have largely taken up to now has been more or less to basically say that Nigel Farage is actually right about a lot of stuff, but you can't trust him to execute it. Yeah. No one can say that that

that is Labour's approach today. That has been completely changed. There's been a turning of the wheel in terms of how Labour are approaching this. We saw this, this was hinted at the very start of the week. with Starmer saying that that policy was racist. Also, you know, a word racist, racism that actually Starmer invoked repeatedly in the speech. He also s was started to talk about

Brexit again and the frailties and weaknesses and problems of Brexit, something else he has been very reluctant to talk about for many years. So you can see. a rapid evolution in terms of the politics. So that's all I think for the good and to the good. And you know, we've been sat here for a long time, and not just here, but on our show many, many times over the past few months, basically almost yearning for and saying that, you know, Keir Starmer, get on the front foot.

You know, don't be afraid to start talking about ideas, start talking about your values, because that is the sort of political environment we're in. So all to the good. That said, there is a problem. There is a problem in a sense. that this is, in my view, that this is the this is the contest, this is what Starmer's talking about. Starmer basically is saying that the party, the Labour Party, is in the fight for its life. Almost as if an election were around the corner or

or it would tomorrow. We know that's not the case. There's still about three and a half, four years of this government's Mandate to run. I think that in order to deal with Farage, it is not enough to simply call him out as to where he's wrong on each individual policy, even just to take him on in terms of his values. What you need, what you need as Starmer himself has basically indicated, is a program, a program of

as he himself has said, of national renewal. And that is the bit that in the speech and more broadly I think is still so completely lacking. What does a program of national renewal actually look like? What is the Starmer project beyond simply

not liking Nigel Farage. Well there's a Starmer project beyond being more decent in his own view than Nigel Farage's. And the truth is, John, is that, and this is the other thing that we've talked about for a long time in terms of wanting to understand and know where Kia Starmer is going. Is going. The truth is, is that if there were a greater sense of what that national mission was, of what that political project was

Is, then he would have spoken less about Farage today. A leader who had a very clear sense of their own momentum and where they wanted to take the country wouldn't need to make this dividing line because they would talk instead more about themselves and what they are instead of

what they're not. Well I suppose the thing that struck me as I was listening to the speech, and I I'm sure Labour High Command and the government will hate this comparison because of how it ended, but it reminded me of Joe Biden. The best soundbite that he had, which was don't compare me to the Almighty, compare me to the alternative. Which is all well and good. The American people did compare Joe Biden to the alternative of Donald Trump and thought, yeah.

We'll have more Donald Trump, please. You know, and Keir Starmer doesn't want to find himself in the same position as Joe Biden was. Now I know there are different things, Joe Biden was very old. Or Hillary Clinton was. Where you say, well, you can't go for this terrible kind of dash.

dastardly rogue, I'm better than that. And the American people thought, well, no, I'm I'm willing to give it a go, which is what you said. You know, P are you in the stage now of our politics that if you haven't got a clear argument, then people will think, you know what?

I'm sick of all of you. And I will go for the kind of outsider who wants to burn the house down. Well Starmer's central contention was the biggest problem in Britain today in our politics is the politics of grievance. But I didn't actually hear him articulate what the politics of grievance is. For example, if someone is aggrieved about immigration,

Is that the politics of grievance? If if they blame, if someone blames the number of immigrants that are in the country because of the NHS on because of the pressures it has on schools or the NHS or whatever it happens to be, is that the politics of grievance? Because that is Nigel Farage's argument, and it is an argument that up to now...

Starmer and Labour have largely subscribed too. Have they changed their view on that? More broadly as well, just on that point about Biden, which I think is a well-made one. My concern about this would be, if I were in Labor, is that The history of the last 10 years of political volatility has been littered, strewn with progressive forces and progressive parties in different parts of the Western world who have made a bet.

that their country is more decent than they think it is. Yeah when push comes to shove. When push comes to shove. They'll do the right. And that they can own the mantle of decency in a way that their opponents Because the truth is is that we have seen repeatedly in the United States most notably but in other places as well that even when a lot of voters believe that

Maybe someone in some ways is a bit indecent or they don't share their mores or they don't share their tastes or they don't like the way that they conduct themselves or even like everything that they stand for and think some of the things that they stand for are indecent and divisive. Nonetheless. We have sine again. and again voters opt for the anti system non-status quo

party because there is such a sense in polity after polity, democracy after democracy, of burn the bloody house down. We're so unhappy. That is something that you know Starmer himself has talked about. and alluded to repeatedly. And my worry would be, even though I think he came out strongly,

forcefully he articulated particularly on these questions of division, you know, aside to himself we have not always seen all to the good. My concern might be that the message that has basically gone out from this conference is We are the status quo. We are the status quo that he is setting himself up as a a dividing line between himself and Farage as the status quo.

Версис за чан, а мино тайменей. how that has worked out. Well I suppose his argument to that would be, look, come on. I was talking about renewal. I was talking about the way we need to change. I was that, you know, that we've got to change the balance of our society and opportunity for all and, you know, everyone in Britain, bla la la la. So I would think he would say that that was his

attempt to be the kind of uh change maker and not be the status quo candidate. But I think that there are no I think that i you know, if we're gonna have a a budget in eight weeks time, which is probably gonna be

really tough and This is the other thing that I thought of and w well hang on, have you started did you lay the groundwork for the budget? Now there was a bit of that where saying, you know, we've got to have fiscal responsibility, we can't make unfunded spending pledges because that will hit the working people.

And so I think he framed that quite cleverly about why you've got to have, you know, fiscal rectitude and discipline in all of that. I don't think the Labour Party wants to hear it. This whole week, John, has been a series of t of tummy tickles for the Labour Party in all sorts of different ways. Which could and that underlines just how powerless his position had become as the as the leader.

in the fifteen months since he was elected the Prime Minister. And th it is remarkable how weak his position is. But I think if you're gonna make an argument that is going to be prepare the groundwork for a budget which is probably going to be pretty tough. For an awful lot of people.

You've got elections next year which are gonna be pretty tough. You've got to be starting to deliver on some of this stuff. Because I think that if if Labour do badly, you know, if the budget goes down badly and they do badly in the next May's elections, I mean all talk about the leadership will be reinforced. Not least because of what Starmer has done in his speech.

Cause what Starmer has done in his speech is basically say, we are in the fight of our lives, we're not just up against the Tories. We are up against a guy and a party that is indecent, unbritish, and where the stakes could not be higher because the forces they will unleash here is basically implicitly saying will be appalling.

That basically legit if he can't therefore turn it round against them, that legitimizes a move against him. Because the Labour Party itself could say, you yourself, Kirstarmer, has said, we are in the fight of our bloody lives here. So if you're not the guy to take over if by 2026 in those elections or slightly beyond that you show no signs of progress then we have no choice but to roll the dice because the stakes are simply too high. I thought the other thing that was notable about

Kiers Dama's speech was not just taking aim at Farage, he also had a pop up populist solutions, whether they be from the left or the right. Listen to this clip. It sounds like he's got Andy Burnham in the crosshairs. We can all see these snake oil merchants. on the right, on the left, but be in no doubt conference, none of them have any interest in national renewal, because decline is good for their business.

I mean, think about it. When was the last time that you heard Nigel Farage say anything positive about Britain's future? He can't. He doesn't like Britain. Doesn't believe in Britain. Wants you to doubt it just as much as he does. So he resorts to grievance. We'll always remember where we were for the burn in the coup, wasn't it? Seventy two hours or so that it lasted four

You know, Starmer, I think, just thinking about this conference sort of wrapping up now, technically wraps up tomorrow, but obviously loses the life after l leader's speech. I think you know Team Starmer will be pretty happy with it. They've got on the front foot. Which hasn't been true for quite a long time now. Burnham, they've seen off. They were lucky in his enemies. He has completely retreated now. He said that he thinks Keir Starmer is the right man for the fight.

That doesn't mean that he's going to retreat entirely and he might not come back and his prospects rise again. Someone caught a photo of him just leaving the conference hall and going out of the conference centre before Keir Starmer spoke. We've identified the strengths of the speech of the approach. It is a big change in approach, I think it is. Interesting to see if it sustains.

But also of course what he did not do and I say this has been a week where I think has been largely kind of tummy tickling for the Labour Party. I don't think it's been a week where anyone from the you know, the Chancellor, the Prime Minister has said

to the Labour Party anything in particular they didn't want to hear. You are right, John, that is about the reflection of their relative political weakness and there are some massive political landmines that are ahead. We've got the budget in a month's time.

We've heard virtually nothing about the massive public spending problems that Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor's got, the taxation that she's maybe gonna have to look to. You can guarantee the next month in the run-up to that budget is gonna be exactly what we saw with the last budget with endless speculation.

And then there's potential sort of damaging stories about different things that she might do or might not do. And then of course you've got the local elections next year as well. So this has been a good placeholder conference. It's reset. political strategy, Labour's political strategy, but my word, as Stam himself said in fairness, There are some very tough times to go.

at the polls coming into this conference of Keir Starmer's standing. I do think this is interestingly an area where we are becoming more like America, where things are being polled continuously. Oh it's ridiculous. And there are almost too many poles. I don't want to put the pollsters out of business but there are almost too many polls now. But I can you can be absolutely sure that

Number 10 Downing Street will be looking at the next set of polls to see if there's any kind of bounce from this conference and whether this is starting to change the terms of debate. Because coming into this conference, Labour's position, Keir Starmer's position,

was absolutely frigging awful. Well I can't think of anywhere better to end other than using the word frigging, but there we go. You don't get that with mate, let's do you. We'll be back with West Streak and the Health Secretary just after this. UK under Ran I'm Simon Marks. Reporting from the heart of the first. U LBC app. Leading Britain's conversation.

The news agents. Well, we are joined now by the Health Secretary West Streeting, who had a very successful morning with your speech. And let's talk as well about the speech we've just heard from the Prime Minister. He said he was setting out the stool of the fight of our livestime for the soul of this country. How is it going to change? How is the country going to change? What what is the change that we're going to see? We want Britain to feel like a country that's on the up.

And I think part of the challenge for the country today is there are so many people for whom life not only feels hard, either because of the pain in their pockets or a feeling that their communities, their streets aren't safe, or They don't think we've got control of our borders. And worst of all, a lot of those people think that Britain is going to get worse, not better, and that the opportunities for the next generation will be worse than the last.

And the truth is that unless we tackle the big challenges and injustices facing our country, that decline will materialise. And what you heard from the Prime Minister this afternoon. is someone who is determined to arrest the decline. Tackle the big challenges facing our country. and give Britain not just its future back but its hope back. And I really think that's what he did.

Explaining what motivates him, particularly as someone who wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth. So that's a work hard for everything he's got, learned from his parents who grafted really hard. And I think the essence of what his speech was about. was saying that Kids from working class backgrounds like ours should have the same choices and chances, security and opportunity in life as those from the most privileged backgrounds.

Wasn't there a contradiction? He kept on saying, you know, Britain is not broken. Look at this, look at that, all the areas where Britain is not broken. And at the same time saying what we need is national renewal. Isn't there a contradiction there? I think what he is really alive to Is the risk that if we're not careful, we, and I don't mean the politicians, I mean we, the country.

could end up talking ourselves into the climb. People n are crying out for hope and people want to feel, like not just in their hearts but in their lived experience that things are getting better. Now for some people in our country, as we heard very powerfully from some of the contributions this afternoon, for some people they are feeling that change. If you're a steel worker in Scumthorpe, your job has been saved by Keir Starmer's leadership.

If you're a worker at Jaguar Land Rover, your job was saved by that US trade deal. If you're a shipbuilder on the Clyde, then not only is your job saved today, but for more than a decade to come. And if you're one of the kids at one of our breakfast clubs, from a one of the poorest families, then you'll be starting the day with a hungry mind instead of a hungry belly and that is a lifetime's worth of change and opportunities.

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the central problem for the politics to come is the politics of grievance and those who peddle the politics of grievance. I I'm not sure you define the politics of grievance. What is it? Well, let's give it a name. I I think Nigel Farage seeks to to exploit division in our country, to sow division in our country, and looks at some of the challenges facing Britain as an opportunity for political gain rather than as challenges to be solved.

And if I think about just some of the things that Farage has said just in recent weeks. He says he wants an insurance-based system for RNHS. Now that'll be a system that checks your pockets before your pulse and your credit card before you care. He says he wants a country where those earning less than sixty thousand pounds a year are sent home to where they came from, if they've come from overseas. That's our doctors, our nurses, our care workers. Now I think

those people give to this country not just through their tax their service. This is their home. And even on that question Is paracetamol safe, Mr. Farage, for pregnant women? Do you back to the case? But what's that got to do with the politics of grievance? Because that is a prime example. Where instead of giving the obvious

evidence-based answer that of course it's safe if you're pregnant to take paracetamol, that's what the doctors say. He instead said, well I don't know. But isn't that just a little bit of a because he's leaning into popular But he's he's leaning into populist clap trap. He's he's leaning into conspiracy theorist politics. But if you're sorry, so if you're aggrieved that immigration is too high and you believe that

No, I wouldn't say that's a politics of grievance. I would say in fact one of the things that I thought was interesting as the Prime Minister was approaching the conclusion of his speech, was he he he effectively said, look if if you're a a patriot and you love our country and you want to solve the genuine problems that exist in our country,

Whether you vote for us or not, the hands reached out, we want to work with you. And, you know, this is a government that acknowledges that we've got real problems with migration. Levels of net migration are too high and we don't have secure borders. We're determined to change that. Brexit. He campaigned for it, told us our country would be better off as a result. Said that all of us who were saying this would be really bad for our economy and for living standards.

We're telling pork is And the moment that referendum was won, he Buggered off, didn't take any responsibility for it, and we've been left picking up the pieces for the negative impact that that decision has had on our country and on some of our poorest communities in our country.

competing political visions that there is this sort of dark and grievance-filled vision of Farage and there is this enlightened view of Keir Starmer. They've seen that play out in politics in America. You know, you can have you know Joe Joe Biden sort of that's exactly the way he tried to pr present the fight against Donald Trump. And we know what happened. Well, so I think that is a a good cautionary note and I'm now going to invoke my other favourite Labour leader.

Anna Sawa, our Scottish Labour leader, who on the fringe this week was making almost precisely this point that sometimes Because on the center left in recent years, whether it was at general elections or that Brexit referendum, we were making the head case and the rational case, but not the heart case and not connecting emotionally.

And we've really got to learn from that because you can't just go around spitting facts. You've got to make sure that you connect with people on an emotional level about their experiences, their fears and their hopes and their dreams.

And I thought that's what Keir did very well in his speech this afternoon actually. I I felt an emotional connection to what he was saying. And although our backgrounds are slightly different and you know, I am very much the product of social mobility and work my way up from you know growing up in poverty on a council of state to sitting around the cabinet table today and went to a great university. I felt Keir's passion viscerally and emotionally that social mobility for a few, while important.

is not uh in itself sufficient. You need social justice for everyone. As I put it in my speech to the Labor conference today, it's not enough for a few of us to beat the odds in our country. we've got to change the odds so that

Kids from my sort of background have a wide range of opportunity available that gives them real security in life. But isn't there a worry though? Where's that whenever people start talking about apprenticeships, whenever people start talking about reducing the number of kids going to

Going to university. It's never middle class people who set don't send their kids to university, is it? It's never middle class people or the kids of politicians or journalists who do that. So actually haven't you just I just watch P. S Dama basically, a man who has benefited himself from exactly that system you have

I have basically saying that he potentially wants fewer working class kids to go to university. Is that what Labour government's really about? No, I mean I I would there's there's one of my questions about this policy is is there is there a risk? that university once again becomes the middle-class route and apprenticeships become the working-class route, and that you have an inequality of parity and a lack of parity of esteem. Do you remember...

I'm showing my age a bit now, but do you remember like game of life where you'd sort of spin the wheel and basically you had to go down the university route to it to win the game and earn the money? And if you went down the other route you didn't earn so much.

I don't want to return to that. I don't think that's what the Prime Minister was talking about. We actually want to see participation in our universities widened, and we want to see yw'r unig o'r unig o'r unig o'r unig o'r unig o'r unig o'r unig o'r unig o'r unig o'r unig How many old Etonians and old Harovians can we get into really good quality apprenticeships in this country? I reckon about zero. Yeah, exactly. How many do how many do you think would be?

Well, I'm an I'm the eternal optimist in politics. Um but look I do think that we've got to make sure that there is not just social mobility but social justice in this country. Both are important. Just on um the Primus has basically set up this battle today between yourselves and between reform.

You say he said it is the stakes couldn't be higher, it's the fight of your lives. If he can't turn it round, potentially perhaps by the 2026 elections, which at the moment look potentially catastrophic, if he can't turn it round, is he the man for the fight? Look, I I think we sort of had enough of that sideshow of speculation this week.

Galvanize them behind Keir's leadership. We've had a bit of the sideshow this week. What we saw from the boss was the was the main stage act and um so it doesn't matter if if if the polls just stay where they are. performance was that the character that I get to see up close as a member of his team, I think the country will get to see from that speech. We need to dial that up, we need to do more of it.

Um, I think we need to give Pierre more opportunities to show who he is, what drives and what motivates him. I in fact I'll give you one example of how this works sometimes. I will never forget my very first um you might forget the bleep already by the way. I remember my very first visit with Keir Starmer as Shadow Health Secretary, and we went to a university where a bunch of medical students were were kind of um showing us their like their CPR um demonstration.

And we walked in surrounded by this scrum of cameras, and these students are like, you know, going at it trying to get this. This um heart on the dummy going and the pro-vice-chancellor says, So how's it going? And there was this like awkward silence, and then Keir just turned round and said, It'd be going a lot better if these two fucked off. And everyone roared with laughter, everyone was put at ease. And I just thought it was a little bit of a little bit of

Shut up you sinny. And I both I just thought I honestly thought if if if If this was on camera, I think like people like my dad would watch it and go, I like that bloke, he's he's a good guy. But of course because he swore like he wouldn't go out on television. But do you think that guy is what the British people think or they see?

No, I don't think it's the Keir Starmer they always see. Um and and therefore it's the responsibility of all of us, not just Keir, um the party of the government to make sure they see more of the Prime Minister that I'm proud to work for. next year, the Senate, you think Kia Starmer should go on, even if they come third or fourth, which is what you're currently thought of.

Not just UK PLC, but for Wales, for Scotland and communities right across England. And I would just say to our Welsh listeners, the idea Be very careful before doing a dance with the devil. Reform stand against everything that our country represents, our party represents, and Wales has given our United Kingdom. Just just on talking about the dance with the devil, I don't know if you've seen Nigel Farage said, accuse your party.

party of inciting violence, inciting violence against him and his party because of the accusations of racism and so on that you've made. What's your response to that? If he's so inclusive and cuddly and kind, why did his party, in a Scottish by-election, put out a leaflet about our leader in Scotland saying that he'd be standing up for Pakistani communities? Is it possibly because Anas Sawar is of proud Pakistani heritage? Why put a leaflet like that out against a

Scott leading the Scottish Labour Party just because of his Pakistani heritage. I'm sorry, like Nigel Farage likes a bit of straight talking, so let me just give him a bit of straight talking. That leaflet was racist. It went out in the name of his party.

He leads it. If he's not racist, because all of his supporters have suddenly turned into snowflakes today saying, Oh, how can people say this about him? If he is not racist, why did he let that leaflet go out? Why show that dereliction of leadership? You want free speech? You got it. That leaflet was racist. It should be condemned and he should apologize for it. Where has this attack been before now? No one's been saying this until the last week about taking the fight to reform.

Well, I think it's a few things to be honest, John. I I I'm I'm just I'll just speak for myself here. I I came back from my um summer holiday, I had a week off abroad and as I was driving down to Cornwall to spend some time with uh my partner's family, driving down the motorway and saw our country's flag hanging from very

from various uh overheads um on the way down the motorway. And I thought two things. Firstly, why are you hanging the union flag the wrong way up? I thought you meant to be patriots. And secondly I thought, like, what is got what what's happened while I've been on holiday? Where have all these flags come from? It's not the World Cup, it's not a European championship, it's not Eurovision, it's not the Olympics.

Flags were put up to try and make some people in our country whose skin, colour, or faith is different to mine feel uncomfortable. And I was ashamed of that. And I was ashamed knocking on doors in my constituency. with people from backgrounds that I've grown up with, again, who look different to me, whose faith is different to mine.

who are born in this country and feel less safe than they did it only a few months ago. And that has shocked me to my core hearing my constituents saying that they feel like the racism of the 1970s and 80s they thought had gone to bed has come back.

That's why we're finding our voice, because this is our fight. This has always been the Labour Party's fight against prejudice and injustice, and we won't I won't stand for it and I won't stand for people that I've grown up with and people I'm proud to represent being made to feel like this country is any less their home than it is mine.

And that's why today as our country's health and social care secretary, I said unequivocally to those people who've come from overseas to work in our health services, to work in care. Faraz says go home, I say you are home. Thank you for your service, not just through your taxes, but

I'm really proud that you're here in Britain and with Labour this will always be your home and you will always be welcome. Westreasing, thanks very much. Thank you very much. And I didn't make The trouble started. Join me, Lewis Goodolf, my new podcast, Coining It. True story. Today, fortune that tore lives apart. Listen for free on Global Player, download it from the App Store or head to globalplayer.com. The news agents.

Wow. Still calming down from all of that. So suddenly the temperature rose about seven degrees in here. as West Streeting warmed to his theme and suddenly there was passion. There was fire in the Belly, there was intensity, there was sort of his eyes were burning as he was talking about this stuff. As you say, Lewis, will this continue? Will they continue? to take the fight to reform if they don't think it's working. But that's what I mean in terms of the kind of change of political strategy.

I think we're streeting he's he's pretty straight talking and he is fiery. I don't think he would have spoken like that a week ago or ten days ago or two weeks ago. You know, Starmer has re-shifted, he's reoriented basically in the terms of political trade, the sort of things that the Labour Party

is willing to say. As I say, it's terrain, using the R-word, racism completely in an unabashed way, being forthright, defending those values, moving to a values-based politic. That is not where Starmer and his government, which has largely been a managerial project,

has been. I think largely that is to be welcomed because I think that's the way the modern media environment works. I think you have to fight fire with fire sometimes. I think you're in a a situation where Politics has become highly, highly charged and big P political and you're up against people like Farage who are very good at this sort of thing.

And if you just, we've talked about it before, if you just basically vacate the values feel, the pitch, all that happens is the values just keep moving further and further away from you. So I think that's all to good the good. That said, there will be, and there are going to be lots of Red Wall MPs in particular. I was talking to some of them last night. They are very uncomfortable about this racist stuff. They are uncomfortable about it.

They think that it does allow Farage to put them in to paint them into a a particular picture, the sort of liberal elite thing saying, Oh, you know, if you're concerned about immigration you you know you're a racist. Therefore, they have to stick to this messaging because they need to stick to it in order for it to land and they need to be nimble in how they justify it and how they use it.

And I would just say that this Downing Street does have a bit of a history of picking up themes, picking up ideas, picking up framing, and then just dropping it before it's even began. And if it does that, then basically you will have got all of the negatives of this week.

without any of the positive. Just one little uh example of what I mean about that. What did we have last week as their report to reform on dig on irregular migration? Digital ID. It's barely been talked about from the stands at all this week. There's been no explanation for it and what has filled that vacuum?

Hard right conspiracy nut cases on X and elsewhere basically suggesting that Keir Starmer is Joseph Stalin and wants to use digital ID to take you off to the gulag. They need to take this framing, pick it up, explain, explain, explain, explain, and be relentless. Like where streeting to be fair, just was.

You got a bit West Street. It's because I'm sat in the in the West Streeting chair. It's because I'm sat in the West Streeting chair. At least you didn't, by the way, suggest like you did last year that you should be on Ozempik. So we got through that this time without suggesting the health secretary was overweight. Right, Lewis, I think you need to calm down. We need to pack up. We'll be in London tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. This is a Global Player original podcast.