This is a Global Player Original Podcast. That's one welcome for President Trump at Windsor Castle, and this is another. Kirstarmer and number ten will be holding their breath, hoping that this week with President Trump in town passes without too much incident. But what do we in Britain really think? Of President Trump now? And how does it all feed into Keir Starmer's worsening and deepening political problems? Welcome to the
The news agents. It's Emily. It's Lewis. And last night, Donald Trump touched down at Stansted, lucky boy, made his way by helicopter to Wimfield House to the uh US Embassy here, and he will have missed. the projection by the activist group led by donkeys of a huge picture of himself with Geoffrey Epstein that was emblazoned On the side of St. George's Chapel in Windsor. One of many pictures, one of many moments that groups like that.
are using to try and draw attention to the man whom we have just granted an unprecedented second state visit to. Yeah and this obviously this this state visit was offered.
Early on in Trump's second presidency it was offered as a means of cementing Starmer's personal relationship with Trump. We know it's something that Trump coveted. We know that he's coming here not because like a normal American president, he has a sort of list of things he wants to discuss with the British Prime Minister, not because there's a huge sort of set of policy discussions, of course, some of that inevitably will happen, but we know with Trump
He he literally said it himself as he was on on the way here. He said uh there's gonna be great pictures and this is about great pictures, anything which potentially disrupts those great pictures is gonna be a problem for him. But obviously it's taking place
And no one could have predicted this at the time. Maybe some people could might have done, but you know, it has ended up taking place at what might be one of the worst possible moments for for for both sides. Uh Trump is leaving a country which is being convulsed. by the political repercussions of the terrible, appalling Charlie Kirk assassination. About the fact as we talked to the show on yesterday, Trump's administration is using it as a moment to suppress
dissent within the United States. That's also gonna potentially have free speech kind of questions that are gonna come up here. But for Starmer as well, what a moment to have Trump here, in the midst of this latest twist in the Epstein scandal, where literally all three elements
of this, the British Royal Family, the Labour Party via Mandelson and Trump himself are all connected with this Epstein affair, which potentially could overshadow the entire thing. And at the same time as you say, Emily, where Trump remains, for various different reasons, very unpopular in the country. Well joining us now is More in Commons Luke Trill, friend of the podcast as we like to say. Luke, it's lovely to see you here in person.
Give us a sense I mean I'm sorry we haven't put out quite the same amount of bunting and fanfare as Trump gets today, but what is the sense around where we the British public are in terms of our relationship now with Trump. So I'd say a couple of things. I think at the top line it is important to remember that Trump is very unpopular. in uh the UK. There isn't a mega constituency uh in the UK. In fact his net positivity rating amongst the British public is minus forty one. So he is deeply
underwater. That is with Labour voters, Liberal Democrat voters, particularly actually Conservative voters have shifted against him since his inauguration. And then reform voters more split. So those people who voted for reform last year in the general election tend to have a positive opinion of him. The newer voters, who, as we've talked about before, tend to be more moderate, less ideological, have a negative.
Opinion of Donald Trump. So that's the kind of top line. But then what I think is interesting is underneath that is when we talk about Donald Trump in focus groups.
The main thing which people focus on is it all just seems a bit frightening. You know, I will have people saying, I don't know what that madman in the White House is gonna do next Do they actually say madman? They say madman. They say you know, in fact I've had people say I don't know what that madman in the Kremlin or the White House is gonna do next, there is this sense that he is out of control and that Britain is almost
a bystander, sort of being buffeted by what Trump does. The one area he will get some praise is you'll get people who say, Yeah, so I you literally say, I really don't like the guy, but the one thing I do like is he does what he says he'll do. And so he gets some kudos from that, but the idea of a big Trumpian constituency in the UK isn't there and actually
If you ask people the top reason that they wouldn't vote for reform UK, it is Nigel Farage's closeness to Donald Trump. Fascinating. So on that Where does it leave Keir Starmer?'Cause obviously this whole thing is about trying to portray a closeness and an understanding and a good relationship with Trump. I mean do people value that in our Prime Minister or do they wish that we sort of stuck two fingers up? So Brits are quite pragmatic.
Actually on this one. So they thought the state visit should go ahead. uh or a plurality, uh thought the state visit should go ahead. Even though it's unprecedented. Even though we've never offered it to any other US president before. Even though it's unprecedented, they still think better to do it. And again when we've spoken to people
You know, they they will say the folks where we played clips from when Starmer gives him the letter and people have sort of thought it was cringe, but like he's got to do it, hasn't he? They tend not to think politicians should boycott. the steak dinner, so we asked about that because obviously Ed Davy is although Liberal Democrat voters back what Ed Davy is doing. But and I think this is the real kicker.
that when we ask them, you know, how can we best influence Trump? By standing up to him, by uh sucking up to him we don't use that word in the polling. Or will it make no difference? The overwhelming majority say it's not gonna make a blind bit of difference. So that's really pragmatic. Yeah. We should talk a bit more about Starmo and sort of where he is with with the public at the moment. But just while we're talking about
Trump and kind of Trump's politics and its popularity in the UK. Obviously, we've been talking a lot this week about kind of a kind of MAGA agenda, right? With with Elon Musk Tommy Robinson sort of more widely you know in the wake of Charlie Kirk's appalling
assassination of sort of politics that he has spar spars I mean obviously the it feels to me, Luke, like one of the central features of British politics right now is partly because we are all still taking our cues so much from X, which is and I'm talking news organisations now. Which is dominated by a kind of MAGA, radical right kind of thinking. And a lot of the people on there sort of present that as if people like Tommy Robinson and others are speaking for the British public.
What's the actual truth about this? Oh it's just uh Tommy Robinson is massively unpopular with the British public. He is way underwater. with the British public. But the British public do not have time for Robinson's, you know, bigotry, racism, and I think there is a danger that people are conflating Frustration with issues around immigration and particularly asylum hotels and it I I will say is rare now to do a focus group where asylum hotels don't come up unprompted, um which is a big shift.
the extent to which it comes up there, but they're conflating that with backing Robinson's agenda. And we actually asked over the weekend, we asked about the mark. Mm. And and and what was interesting, what came back on the march was, whether people had a positive opinion or a negative opinion is people were split, which I thought was, you know, quite surprising. You know, there's but it was about thirty percent who said they had a positive opinion, thirty six percent negative.
When we then asked those with a positive opinion w what it was they liked about the march, just eleven percent said support for Tommy Robinson and his views. So that's eleven percent of the thirty percent. So you're talking, you know, tiny numbers here. For most it was wanting to stand up for free speech. And immigration were the two i issues that they said. But it wasn't an endorsement of Robinson's agenda. And I think there's a danger that Some of the commentariat.
Some of those on the right. But also I think actually a danger from some of those on the left that they lump everyone into this kind of you know there's a danger of it almost becoming self fulfilling. So you see a hundred and fifty maybe thousand people and you say they are all Tommy Robinson fans. Does the question around free speech
Which has obviously become such kind of central bit of kind of the rights thinking and the online rights thinking. Does that resonate? Do people feel that there are genuine infringements on free speech? So when you ask people is free speech under threat, actually you get quite a big majority that say yes, but i i when you talk to people about free speech and vertical groups it's clear we have a very different conception of it. It isn't
that US style First Amendment absolutism. And people will often say things in vocal scripts like, Well, well, you know, if you say something in the workplace which isn't allowed in the workplace, you should be disciplined for that. You know, you should you know people have a preference for being kind, generous, If you look at our segments, for instance, the rooted patriots, that quite socially conservative group, say we need to tackle
hate speech, uh and offensive speech, but I think it's this sense that sometimes the policing goes a bit far. So it's not it's definitely not US style. And when political correctness gone mad from the nineteen nineties. Exactly that, but doesn't mean they back what people are saying. So when we asked, Do you think politicians should associate with Lucy Connolly?
just eighteen percent of the public said that politicians should do that. So they're you know, you can have maybe a debate about sentencing and, you know, was it right? And that's probably about a thirty five percent proposition. But it's uh you know, it's under one in five who actively want politicians embracing uh people like Lucy Connolly as a hero. Going back to Star Map.
Where is he now in the polling? It feels like there's been a slew of stuff. I mean there's a UGO poll out today suggesting he's now at his lowest rating ever ever since he became Labour leader. There was some catastrophic polling, I think, from Wales yesterday, from IT V Wales showing Labour in third place, trailing way behind Plyde and reform. It feels like this is getting worse. It's definitely getting worse. So our approval tracker this week had Starmer's approval on minus forty six.
So that's proportion of people who say he's doing a good job minus those who think he's doing a bad job. That was a new low. How does that compare to Emily Johnson and Yeah, or or just do it with the other le with the the other party leaders as well? Yeah, so Kemi Badenok is in the minus mid twenties. I think she's minus twenty three or around there. Almost popular. Well, and then you got basically what you then get is Davy and Farage duking it out for
Not most popular, but least unpopular, who tend to be around kind of minus five, minus seven ish there and they tend to oscillate. So Starmer is way down there. The one thing I would say is uh Kemi Badenok and Ed Davy in particular have very high don't know. Yeah. Comparing Starmer therefore to other prime ministers who have been at their deer at their worst, so Johnson before he went, May before he went, Sunak.
How does he compare Truss? That is the territory we are in, so he now um I think Starmer is now below where Rishi Sunak was at his lowest post his election defeat. Uh you're in similar territory to Johnson But looking at other polls Where you see that sort of vertical line uh of approval, I think Kirstarmer is still ahead of where exists. And what about on on the qualitative side? What in focus groups, what's your sense of I mean'cause the truth is, right?
Stommer's never been popular. He's never been a popular political figure, even when he won the election. He was not an especially popular leader of the opposition by comparison to Cameron or Blair, whoever. So what are people sort of saying to you about him?
Well yeah I mean you're entirely right and you remember when we were doing focus groups for the pods in the run up to the election it was a kind of I mean lukewarm is probably strong uh embrace of Starmer. It was this sense of we just need to get the Tories out. It has flipped and it has uh it flipped last summer into or after winter fuel into not just kind of meh but like genuine frustration.
I think where we are getting to now, and I think this is the danger point, is when I ask about how Starmer's doing It's not just anger, you get some people laughing. And that is the stage it got to at the end of Johnson and the stage it got to at the end of Sunak as well. And it's that stage when people start to
Well see him as hapless. Yes. Exactly. They're no longer you know I mean lots of people are angry, but there's a group of people who are no longer angry, they're just like I mean, clearly, you know, this this isn't working. And I think it is going to need now something big to turn that around. Um um why do you think that is?'Cause I mean, you know, sort of looking
Y you could say and maybe there is something about political expectation here. I mean, actually Starmer didn't come in and Labour actually didn't come in, you could argue, promising the world. Actually their their promises were actually quite modest. Yes, quite modest. Yes, exactly.
It's fourteen months. It's not a terribly long time since since the election. Is that a reflection of how badly Labour has screwed it up? Or is it something wider that's going on about our political culture? Because there hasn't been I mean there have been clearly mistakes. But it's hard to necessarily point to something as there was with Johnson and Partygate or Truss for obvious reasons, or whatever. Yeah, it doesn't affect people personally in the same way that Party Gate did.
or, you know, trust his mortgage. I mean, losing Angela Rayner or losing Peter Mandelson or losing your advisor, they're not things that individually hurt you as a voter. And most people don't even notice. No. So what do you think it is? So I think it's two things. I think it's sort of perversely our uh political cycles have become both longer and shorter. Um thinking about that. So they become longer in the sense that I think
Uh and look, uh you know, I think it's entirely reasonable them for them to have thought this. Lots of people thought Starmer coming in he'd be starting with a blank slate with the Electra and that would mean that actually after fourteen months people would say you've only got fourteen months. People aren't viewing it like that. They're seeing it as this has gone on since two thousand and eight. And so it's not fourteen months, it's seventeen years of us not getting
any better being told about tough decisions. I do think he made it worse for himself with that Rose Garden speech because a lot of people were like, Oh my god, it's gonna be more of the same. So you've got that. But at the same time political cycles have become shorter In the sense that the electorate is understandably impatient. They think life in Britain has been hard for too long and they very quickly move.
And then I think there's a third thing, which is what you would expect to happen normally, and I think, you know, clearly this isn't Starmer's fault, is people would go, Well, You know, this government is doing some stuff that I don't like. They're taking a while, but you know, the other lot are the ones that got us into this mare.
And so, you know what let's um you know, we'll give Labour some time. Which is what Cameron enjoyed in twenty ten to fifteen. Exactly that, it's exactly the twenty twenty strategy. That hasn't happened. You've got reform there ready to say, Okay, you're disappointed with Labour, you're disappointed with the Tories. Here we are. Here we are to offer you something totally different. And I do think, you know, I think
y there is a a view you can take that it some of the assessment of Keystarmer is quite unfair. I do think that that the winter fuel thing, I'm sorry to keep coming back to it, just did untold damage.
It's extraordinary, isn't it, when you consider how in the grand scheme of things you could argue and obviously there'll be people who maybe disagree with this assessment, but you could argue you know, a relatively small amount of money for a group of people that you could argue were already quite well supported by the welfare state and it and yet it it metastasized, it's become utterly toxic.
But it was sort of the way they did it, right? They announced it into nowhere. It wasn't in the manifesto and then it was announced what months before the budget? And it's not a good thing. It was August, I think, wasn't it? It came to define them and this sense that they were
targeting different groups and then when you got to the budget people then went, Oh and now they're going after small businesses and farmers And they're probably about to re repeat that cycle. Yeah. Now and the big mistake and again I think we've talked as well, I just think was boxing themselves in on not reversing the hunt. On Starmer and Labour. I mean I you and I talked about this I think, you know, two or three months ago. I uh until very recently.
My sort of assessment had been that that this talk of of removing Starmer or Starmer going would be way more counterproductive because it would just feed that the one thing you could say about Starmer or the government is that it appears relatively stable. At least they're not getting into the sort of Tory kind of psychodrama, kind of endless swapping of of leaders which just sort of appeared made them look incompetent and feckless.
But I suppose maybe it feels to me that the conversation among Labour MPs, who I think probably largely shared that analysis, even though there's not a lot of love for Starmer, feels like it is starting to turn. on the basis that maybe the calculus is shifting, that yeah, that would look bad, but actually Snarma is becoming so unpopular that that would be better than sticking with him. What do you think about that? What do you think about where the calculus is? Th I do think that chaos risk is a
is a is a real issue, right? And the biggest beneficiary of greater political chaos will be reform because people will think as they sort of expressed actually about Rayner's departure when we spoke to them Oh look, the Tories chopped and changed all the time. Labour are now doing the same. System doesn't work. System doesn't work. And also, even if I'm worried reform are untested, they can't be as bad.
As those other two. Then they buy strong. They may as well I may as well try it because, you know, how bad can it be? So I that is a big risk. And if Labour were to change leaders they would basically have to be confident that this was a May twenty nineteen moment when Theresa May announces she's stepping down and Johnson almost comes in as almost an entirely new Conservative Party.
The risk is I think the more likely situation is it would be in October twenty twenty two, which is Sunak comes in, it looks like moving the desk chairs, it looks like moving it round, more chaos and it doesn't move because for Labour because for Labour right now.
the kind of obvious Johnson parallel would be Andy Burnham. Like he's he's the one guy who not only is reasonably popular in the country but also could genuinely come in and go, I'm a clean skin, I've had nothing to do with this government. Change, change, change. But there's unlike in twenty nineteen There is no obvious Mechanism.
for him to get into Parliament. Because the only way of him getting into Parliament will be a startman to agree to him to come into Parliament, which he's not going to do. So we should explain there's this one Labour MP, Andrew Gwynne, who's thinking of stepping down for health reasons, which would free up a seat in the Greater Manchester area for a by election. But for that to happen Presumably Kirstam has got to say yes, Andy Burnham, you can Go for that.
Would it be burnt would is he I mean A two question two questions I suppose. A, do you think it actually is irrecoverable for Starbert now? Is he in that sort of Johnson nineteen position? And B, would it have to be Burnham or is there anybody else who could actually make a a qualitative difference to Labour's position? Yeah, it's uh it's good quite look, I uh I think the shift that has happened in recent weeks is more members of the public are starting to think it's irrecoverable.
but the public are not generally the best judges of their future behaviour. What do I mean by that? If things turn around, if life starts to feel a bit easier, if energy bills feel less painful then I think if reform implodes. If reform imploded, the government could turn it around. And I think, you know, if I were the government I would be thinking The best day that I get
uh for the government in terms of a focus group I did was after Scunthorpe was when they took the steel into government control. Because people saw problem government acting. And it was the entire opposite of, I think, what frustrates people more than any individual, the sense of government being impotent. And they need more scum-thought moments, I think. And I think that is how they get out of this. That doesn't happen and he can't turn it around.
it is hard to see many people in the current, you know Cabinet, who at this moment in time would look like something different enough? I mean You know, Wes Streeting is a great communicator, but of course he'd have to win a Labour leadership election there. I think, you know, people have high hopes for people like Shibana Mahmoud, but she's got no cut through with the public yet. That might change.
When we tested potential leadership candidates and said, Would they do a better job than Starmer, the only one where the public were more likely than not to say they'd do a better job was Andy Burnham. But as you say, he has to get into parliament. And even if Keir Starmer lets him stand, I would be In this environment, fighting a by election, even a very popular mayor um They might just lose the whole seat. They might lose the seat, and then that's Burnham's career toast.
But if he did it High risk, high risk you know, and and look where have we heard that phrase recently? I think at the moment there are very few Labour seats where I would be outside of inner cities and student towns, where I would be confident that they could hold a by election,'cause by elections tend to have bigger swings than you know, the national average, the one person who I think could win a by election.
Simply because when we go to Greater Manchester and talk to people, he genuinely is popular. He's seen to have made a success in the world. And he's won he wins every ward in Greater Manchester, even the Tory wards in his election. Exactly. If there is someone who can win it, it's him and I think that's an interesting test there.
Is he the person who can take on reform? Luke, it's been brilliant. Fascinating. Thanks. Thanks for coming in. And of course there will be coverage of every twist and turn of Donald Trump's state visit on LBC. Listen now by using our free Global Player app. The news agents. So something that has been uh continuing and we've been keeping an eye on this week and we wanted to do is the situation in Gaza. Um once again we've seen the IDF, the Israeli government,
continuing to step up its offensive in Gaza. And it is clearly going to be or there will be a big expectation from some Labour MPs that Starmer will use this state visit to try and get some sort of policy outcome on Gaza from Trump.
Seems quite unlikely that will happen, but Labour MPs will definitely want it to happen. It's yet another potential political fissure point between the two men because it is something certainly where the British Labour Party and the American Republican Party at this moment could not be further apart. Yeah, and things have got a lot worse in Gaza. Israel yesterday launched its ground operation in Gaza City.
tanks and infantry brigades are entering um the ruins there and the Israeli Defence Minister has vowed to strike with an iron fist. Thousands now fleeing Gaza City. So we're going to speak now to Ale Rempi, one of two, who tried to get into Israel. and they were banned from entering. Doctor Simon offered just Tell us about the circumstances surrounding that. What actually happened? So me me and another actually another doctor as well, Peter Prinsley, who's an ENT surgeon. I'm a I'm a G P.
Uh we we had been invited to visit healthcare facilities in the West Bank by medical aid for Palestinians, a charity. And so we had flown to Amman and we were going to get into Israel across the Jordan, so overland. And when we got to Israel after about three hours of shenanigans involving the consulate and the foreign office actually. They then issued us with a legal s uh statement saying the above mentioned individual will be removed from Israel and then we were led to a but
By a man who held held our passports and uh when we were in the bus going back to Jordan we got given our passports. So that was a sort of bones of what happened. Pretty disappointing and slightly well, very frustrating and irritating to be honest. What was the reason they they gave for doing it?
So the the reason on the form was uh remember this is two over six year old medics, right? Reason for denial, public security, public safety and public order. So I I think they would just Rydyn ni'n gwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud. Rydyn ni wedi gwneud yn ymwneud â'r pethau sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n.
Do you think that was specific to you, specific to the Labour Party, or specific to the UK? Like my person no this is all I personally, but I think it was the UK actually because Uh I went well Peter Prinsley is the other doctor, he he's a a prominent Jewish uh member of you know the uh British uh Jewish uh society and so he uh certainly has been fairly supportive of Israel in terms of uh you know general support. So I don't think it was against us.
specifically in that way. I just I think relations between the UK and Israel are actually very poor at the moment. They're very, very cheesed off with the fact that
we're gonna recognise Palestine. They they really don't want that to happen. And I think that the relationships are very fraught and actually Rydw i wedi'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i
Uh to tr you know, who's the uh junior uh minister in the Foreign Office responsible for the Middle East. Uh and he said he'd do what he can, but that actually there wasn't much. cooperation really uh that was possible between the two sides. So I do think it was the fact that we were UK MPs really that was the main problem. You do, you think that relations are so bad.
that Israel is now at this point unwilling to entertain, even have British parliamentarians making official visits to the country. That's all I can assume. I I mean I as I say, I've got no special knowledge of you know, the Foreign Office or everything. But I think that we can only assume that actually f by what happened. And I think, you know, with Spain particularly coming out very strongly against the Israeli, you know, action in Gaza, and the French as well, and the Irish
And now the British, I think they are feeling very paranoid and isolated really. So th their only real sort of global supporter is is the Americans, I think, at the moment. And I I do believe that that was uh inherently what was going on. Uh you know, I don't think we could really count m me and Peter as
threats to Israeli stability really. I think that's ridiculous. So to that note, Simon, we're about four days, five days away from the UNGA, the UN General Assembly meeting, which is the deadline at which Kirstama said he was prepared to recognise the state of Palestine.
Would you like to see him go ahead with that now and recognise Palestine? I would really, because I think I mean I having talked to a lot of Palestinians they go, Well it's not gonna make any material difference whether we w recognise Palestine as a as an independent nation. But On the other hand, Israel really don't want us to do it and it it's it's one of the only areas of leverage we had.
I think that's one of the reasons that the British government put this sort of, you know, a ceasefire by now or we'll recognise that they're trying to do something that they actually had some power over Israel. But if they haven't done it, Israel, I think we have to go
go through with it. And even if it's symbolic, I think that's uh I think that's really important that they do stick to what they threaten. So yeah, I'm really hoping that they do recognise the state of Palestine. As you say Simon, perhaps the last
remaining steadfast ally of Israel at the moment in the West is the United States. We've obviously got the state visits going on at the moment. President Trump is here, he's having meetings with Kirstama. What do you think Keir Starmer should say to President Trump about Gaza? Well I think you should just say look. Do you wanna you know, this is something historical here. Do you really wanna be on the side of what's going on in Gaza? And uh because it looks
And is dreadful, the United Nations have now said it does constitute a genocide. Do you want to be supporting genocide? And if you don't, you need to do something. And you're the I think the Americans remain the only people that could possibly stop this. Uh Uh you know and and also I think what's sad about the whole situation is so we've got A state where uh over two thirds of Israelis uh aren't supporting their government. Their government is incredibly right wing and
unstable. So if they stop fighting in Gaza, they might collapse as a government. So you got that on one side. Palestinian side, there's not a great love for Hamas either. So we've got this horrible situation where the Palestinian people are really suffering. by two governments or heads of
uh uh of people which are just not serving their people to the best extent. So I think the Americans a little bit of pressure could stop this quite easily. And they I think they must do. And I think the difficulty is I think politically in America the way this sort of rolls out, that there's a lot of support for Israel. And so I'm not sure that this is gonna be very likely to happen. But I would say I if I was Kirst Darman, I'd say, look
This is a really this is awful what's happening and you've got the power to stop it. Are you confident that Keir Starmer will say that and will bring it up? Um no, I'm not really, because I think this trip is about something different. I I don't know. I I hope he does. I'm not that confident that he will do, but I do think it's I I felt like actually as I went there I thought in terms of the world I get loads of posts about this as an MP about the situation in Gaza and I think
We all feel a little bit helpless and we're watching this horrible thing going on and we want to do something about it. And that's one of the reasons I sort of went uh try and do it. And one of the frustrations of not being able to get in is I can't sort of in any way help. And we I think we all feel like that to a degree. And that the only people that can sort it out is um
It's Trump really. But I don't yeah, my gut feeling is probably Keir Summer won't mention that. I think he's more intent on trade. with America at the moment because the Mae'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r yw'r amser.
Um and I don't think he will wanna rock the boat too much actually, uh, over this one, which is a shame but uh that there we are. I mean you say it's a shame. Would you call for him to be stronger? I mean we've seen Ed Davy, the Lib Dem leader, pull out of this over over exactly this issue, Simon, say I don't want this opportunity to pass without sending a message to Trump that he can stop Israel's actions in Gaza. Would you like to have a more forceful message from our own Prime Minister?
I would and I think a lot of us. I he may well mention it in public, but yeah, I think there's uh certainly from my point of view and many of my constituents, I think we want him to bring this up in in no uncertain terms with Trump. Whether it'll do any good I I'm not sure, but I think we have to try and use our influence to to to make some effect there as well.
Just on um uh one other matter, Simon, I mean you were um one of uh many Labour MPs who were not happy with the proposed welfare reforms at the time. You're now calling for the government to lift the two child Benefit cap, there's a general feeling of instability at Harp number ten. We've had the Epstein affair, the Mandelson affair. How fragile do you think Keir Starmer's position is in the Labour Party?
Well, funnily enough, my feeling is i he he's fairly I don't think he's I don't think he's that fragile. I think he's having a bad time. I do feel like he's got majority of Labour MPs supporting him still. I I do think he needs to reach out to backbenchers much more than he's doing to to really listen to us properly. And I think one of the real frustrations with that welfare stuff is that they did actually invite us all to number ten and we all said
Don't do this. It's not it's not right and also it's a terrible look politically what you're doing. So we don't want you to do it and yet they they did carry on and do it. So you if you have dialogue you've got to listen to that dialogue, I think. But no, my f my gut feeling is it I don't think he I think he's still got the support of a majority of
thing we're saying, we need to have much better columns than we're having. And I and I I'm hoping that various changes at at number ten will do that. But I also think Actually it's a bit crazy punishing the left wing of the party. We need to be a bit more together and you know, I think Jeremy Corbyn voted against Tony Blair's government s hundreds of times, and yet he was still in the party and and we can tolerate diverse voices in the party. And I do feel a much more diverse base and
a much less strictness around that sort of thing would be much more beneficial for the government. I'd really like to see a sort of loosening of that very strict discipline because I think that will make a much better atmosphere in the party. I don't want to get into the weeds too much, Simon, but there is sort of talk of a slight divergence now between Keir Starmer and his chief of staff, Morgan Mutsweeney. Do you think a lot of that strictness is coming
From the advisor next to Starmer, as opposed to the Prime Minister himself? I mean, would you quite like to see him cutting ties there? I think that strictness does come from that and I think um I think I I would like to see some loosening of ties there, yeah.'Cause I think that there is a a feeling that uh the uh well the the thing is I I I think it's very unclear who who's really calling the shots here and I think
I think Keir Starmer we all like, and I think he's a really good, solid and really effective leader in that way. And I'm not sure he's being advised. to the best extent that he could be. Now I so I do feel some loosing there would be really uh really good and I think that's partly the way the whole uh party is handled as such,'cause Rydyn ni'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd i'n mynd.
the welfare debate, there is quite an element of if you want to call them soft left or whatever, you know, one hundred and thirty people signed that amendment and that means that some of us actually would like a much more sort of left leaning, looking after the really poorest in society type
uh vision of the future of of the country rather than what we we we we have at the moment. But that's not to say actually they're doing some really good things and one of the real frustrations for Labour MPs is that There's a lot of good legislation going through and yet no one seems to be noticing it'cause there's just a
a big noise about the boats and Gaza for a uh as well, I think. And actually I think we need to try and s you know, really clear the deck so people can c clearly see what we're doing from a employment point of view and that that type of thing. So yeah, to answer your question, Every, I do think there needs to be a a bit of separation and I I think that now's the time to do it early on. So separation just to try and understand that means kind of get rid of him. Like get him out of the way.
I I've uh yeah, I I think I think we need to be managed in a different way, uh, from that point of view. So yeah, I would like to see that. Uh I would like to see that happen. Simon Ofer, thanks so much for joining us on the News Agents. Thanks again. Thank you. All right, thanks very much. Cheers. Lists. Good morning. I'm Nick Ferrari. James O'Brien on LBC. Good afternoon. I'm Sheila Fog. Tom Swabrick with you. BC leading Britain's conversation.
The news agents. Well as we've been saying, President Trump is now in the UK. The state visit is proceeding apace. But before he left Washington, in his latest I'm definitely not acting like a dictator turn, the president had this to say. To an ABC journalist.
And what do you think Pam Bondi's saying she's gonna go after hate speech? Uh is that I mean a lot of people a lot of your allies say hate speech is free speech. She'll probably go after people like you because you treat me so unfairly and say you have a lot of hate in your heart. Maybe you'll come after AB.
ABC. Well ABC paid me sixteen million dollars recently for a form of hate speech, right? Your company paid me sixteen million dollars for a form of hate speech, so maybe they'll have to go after you. A sitting president basically threatening a journalist as if it's the most normal thing in the world. And you know the really scary part is it actually has become that. More on this on the News Agents USA, which you can listen to now. We'll be back tomorrow. This is a Global Player original podcast.