A terrorist attack on Yom Kippur

This is a Global Player Original Podcast. The attack in Manchester this morning is absolutely shocking and all of our thoughts are with those affected. I'm on my way back to London. When I arrive, I will chair an emergency COBRA meeting. I'm already able to say that additional police assets Assets are being deployed to synagogues across the country and we will do everything to keep our Jewish community safe. That is Keir Starmer at the airport in Copenhagen cutting short.

his visit with EU leaders to return after an attack on a synagogue that has left two people dead, three people seriously injured, and the attacker shot by the police. The attack still feels very new. There's a lot we have yet to learn, but we're going to try and reflect today on what it means politically and also what it means personally. The holiest day of the Jewish year. Welcome to the newsagents.

The news agents. It's John. It's Emily. And today's episode is gonna sound not like our normal episodes, I suspect, because you know, we are recording this as we are finding out details. of what looks like a terrorist attack on a synagogue in North Manchester. on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar, Yom Kippur, and two people have been killed. And the attacker has also been shot and killed, we think, by the police. I say we think because

They cannot approach the body because there's worry that he has a suicide vest on him. I should say it's about twenty past one now, so obviously more and more details are coming through of what feels like the first terrorist attack. In years. in this country and also I'm trying to remember when there has been a fatal attack on a synagogue or a mosque or a church in this country.

Which does mark a kind of new and depressing low, I suppose. Yeah. I mean I think it's pretty shaky. It's a pretty shaky time for a lot of people in the Jewish community. This is Yom Kippur. It's an incredibly solemn moving day. It's a day of reflection, of fasting. A lot of people won't be working and will have turned off their phones and their T V set they might not even know about this as as the events are unfolding.

And they started unfolding very early this morning at at nine thirty one when the police received reports of a car that was being driven towards the members of the public outside Heaton Park. synagogue in Manchester, as you say, and extraordinarily the Greater Manchester police were on the scene within six minutes. Now, that's probably not a coincidence because most synagogues now

have security around them. They have a sort of community, often a volunteer body, of people who will stand there checking bags, sometimes checking tickets or checking members they will tell you not to congregate in or around these places of worship and they have very good community liaison with the local police and police will also be on their guard and

patrolling in areas that are quite often within a stone's throw of the synagogue. So I guess this tells you that there has long been a a heightened Sense of fear about what could happen on the High Holy Days on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. And I have to say, I've sort of come to this.

uh with quite a lot of emotional baggage. I was in synagogue last night in London and I mean it was an incredible occasion, uh sort of joyous and full and full of light, but I looked around there must have been sort of three hundred people in there. And I thought what I always think, which is like, Oh my God, how dare we all how dare we all sit together? How aren't we uh

a target. Aren't we aren't we asking for for for it because we're all together, you know, and you shouldn't have those thoughts when you just walk into a building. to pray, you know, to think, to reflect. And yet I I was full of of that sense, you know, of what a privilege it feels to be able just to kind of gather You know, with people of your own religion and And worship for be quiet. And so yeah, I mean I left at about half past nine, quarter ten last night.

And um and then we woke up to this this morning and there is that sense of like, Well it wasn't last night, of course it was today. It wasn't Rosh Hashanah, it was Yom Kippol. And I think um I think there are many British Jews, many Jews around the world who have felt uh an increasing sense of the temperature.

And I want to divide that very firmly from any of the politics, anything that's going on in Israel, anything that's going on within the Israeli government and its actions, which, you know, a lot of people have been A very Happy, quick to um condemn and say this is this is not about politics. This is about being allowed to go to a place of worship on a day that's Very important to people and actually the time of day

where people were going. That there is a service sometimes at the beginning, sometimes at the end called Yitzko, which is when you you go to remember members of your family that you've lost. You know, it's a special prayer and you go and you sit sometimes

you give their names at the front and their names are recited and it's a it's a kind of extra grieving. It's a mourning period where you say, These are the people we've lost during the last year, I'm thinking about those people And you sort of come to it with a a sense of love and memory and and grief and the timing just seems sort of Yeah, to have really sliced through that that sense of of important reflection. Look, you and I went to synagogue together just after October the seventh.

um when uh a lot of the Jewish community around the UK, around the world came together and after this horrific event. in Israel where twelve hundred people lost their lives and hundreds were taken hostage. And that was a very profound shocking moment. But there was also the sense of increased vulnerability. You know, I was up in Liverpool this week at the Labour Party conference.

And we're talking about Islamophobia, which is also real. Absolutely and there is absolute fear in the Muslim community about what might happen and the way that they feel that they're being vilified and that they feel more vulnerable to attack.

And it is just the same. They nearly always go hand in hand. I mean anti Semitism and and Islamophobia are two sides of the same coin. And so I think that the Jewish community have I I think it's slightly part of our culture that we catastrophise and think that something terrible is coming because go back over, you know, two or three thousand years of Jewish history

Catastrophic events have happened and I've always thought, Oh come on, let's not catastrophise. Actually we're all getting along. Yeah, it's tougher, but life goes on. And today we've had an attack, a terrorist attack. on people going to worship. Those people in that synagogue at Heaton Park

are not responsible for Israeli foreign policy. They are not responsible for Netanyahu and the attacks that are taking place on Gaza causing so much misery and suffering and hardship to Palestinians. They are just Jews who are worshipping. And likewise Muslims who go to the mosque to pray on Friday prayers are not responsible for what some crazy jihadist might do anywhere else in the world. And I really wish

we could separate those two things and ha be able to separate the thoughts. But of course, if you're an extremist, you want to sow distrust, you want to sew that anger in communities that makes matters worse.

As you said, this probably doesn't sound like a normal news agent's episode. We've got personal quite quickly, but I think it's important to try and take you through some of the stages and try and make sense of what we know so far, limited. And we're going to talk now to Andy Hughes, who is host of the Crime Agents podcast and also LBC's crime correspondent. Andy just talk us through the the method used because it felt quite

Shocking, it felt like something genuinely that we haven't seen here, thank God, for years. Yeah, exactly. Knives and cars, this has been the methodology since the mid twenty tens really. It's the emergence of ISIS. And they told the

people in foreign countries to do whatever you can and attack in any way you can. So it changed from, you know, these massively sophisticated suicide bombers in seven seven back in two thousand and five and it then changed to knives and cars and this is what we've seen and this is also an absolute nightmare for the security services.

Because in every kitchen there are knives and everyone has a car. So I guess the question that people will want to know the answer to, the police, the security services, is this a lone wolf or What is this prestige? Well that's the number one priority to find out if this is a lone actor or if he has associations. The first thing they will bottom out is identity. Is he known to the security services? If he is, who are his associates?

ac yn ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n ymwneud â nhw'n mynd. Who do you go after if he is linked and then analysis of devices and gathering more intelligence like that? Andy, can we talk about the item he had round his waist because it is not an obvious suicide vest of the kind that, you know, we've we've sort of seen the past. in a weird way, it looks very similar to what a lot of

Jewish men would have been wearing today, which is the sort of the bit that carries the prayer shawl. So you you wouldn't have instantly seen that and thought this is somebody who's wearing a suicide vest. This is where it becomes really complicated. I saw the images as as we all have now. Now, this is what suicide vests would look like. But you're right, the top half it's difficult to understand. What I do know is that we've seen footage of police officers

talking to each other and shouting at each other while they're confronting the man at the scene. They're saying, He's got a device, he's got a device, he's trying to push the button, he's trying to push the button And it was at that point where you heard shot That's why they fire. They shoot to kill. They're trained to shoot to kill. So what would have happened is they would have had a description of this man, the firearms officers on their way.

Because of the threat and the fact that he was trying to get into a synagogue, the fact that he's wearing what could be a suicide vest. then they would have been ordered to shoot to kill and it would have been up to the officers on the ground to make that decision. We were working out the time frame between the first stabbing, the first car And the arrival of the police it was incredibly fast and it was recognised. It was an absolutely extraordinary seven minutes. Is that because of the

of the way the the communities around the synagogues now work with the police. I mean Everyone is on heightened attack on Yom Kippur. I mean do you think there was a any kind of tip off or I'm assuming th there was a sense of that. So security would have been heightened anyway. What does happen and this will happen on any day, never mind a day like this.

is firearms officers, they are just dispatched across the cities and they are just circling waiting for a call like what happened today to come in. The suggestion is that they were just round the corner when they got that call and this is why they responded so fast. That plus the heightened security that I'm assuming is why there was such a quick response. Yeah, and then we get to threat level. Since October the seventh and the kind of heightened sense of

tension that there has been. People have spoken about the dangers and the threats and, you know, Islamophobia and anti Semitism and it's been very much in the headlines. Do you think that they will the security services reflect that the Threat level wasn't high enough? Does it change now? What will be the considerations there? So that's what will be decided at the COBRA meeting. At the moment It is substantial, which means an attack is likely.

that could then be raised to severe, which means an attack is highly likely. And this will be decided amongst the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary, the Defence Secretary, MI six, M I five, and counterterrorism policing. And as John said, there's so much we don't know. I'm sure minds will be jumping to

Palestine as a state, as a country, the fact that we are coming up to the second anniversary of October the seventh. Maybe there is a sort of sense of the copycat of the the massacre on Israeli Jews. of then. I mean what what do authorities do with all these different strands of kind of thought that will be circulating right now? Well the one thing they look at is what's playing out all over the world. And because what you have found time and time again is events that are playing out

all over the world in the Middle East, whether that be in America, it always affects what happens here and the threat level always goes up here. So the security services And especially MI six, they completely monitor everything that's going on and then they then feed it into the security services system.

S listen, we might want to look out for that because this is a certain area of contention. This happens all the time and and with something like this it th it's no coincidence that the first thing the security services did was increase security around all synagogues. And the whole thing with the security services is and I think that people don't recognise this often enough, is how often

attacks are thwarted and stopped and the very good intelligence that our security services have and the effectiveness of their counter activities. I mean there was gonna be an attack I think a few months ago on Israeli embassy. I mean, is this part of something else?

Well, thirteen terror attacks have been followed in the last year and these are late stage attacks, meaning these attacks were just about to happen. These people might have been on their way to commit a terror attack and it would have been thwarted. The thing is, you or I very rarely hear of these things. You only hear of them when they slip through the net like this one. And Andy is now on his way up to Manchester.

And of course if you want to stay up to date with the latest developments on the unfolding story there, do stay tuned to LBC, which is available on the free Global Player app. In a moment we'll be talking to somebody who grew up in that area who worked very closely with the communities in that area for their thoughts on what this is doing now to Manchester. Like Bitcoin. Enrich beyond his work. Dreams. Trouble started. Join me, Lewis Goodolff, my new podcast, Coining It.

In the system and created a fortune that tore lives the part. Listen for free on Global Player, download it from the App Store or head to globalplayer.com.

The news agents. Well joining us here in the studio now is David Yellen, friend of the podcast and also the host of When It Hits the Fans. And David, you grew up very close to where the attack happened in Manchester. You kind of know the feel of the place, right?

Yeah, I grew up in a lot of places in the north, but including in Manchester. Spent a lot of time in Manchester. My one of my first jobs was on a newspaper and I lived very close to where this attack has happened this morning. And if you look at that part of Manchester between sort of uh very new road and Middleton Road where the attack took place. There are scores of synagogues. I mean there are there are so many synagogues it it is I think probably the

The biggest well it is the biggest Jewish community outside London. But the interesting thing is if you go south, you walk a minute It's a a a Muslim area and there's scores and scores of mosques, side by side. So this is a for a generation now, the Jewish and Islamic and Muslim community in Manchester have lived side by side. They're intermingled. And with good community relations. Yeah, I mean with very very good it's a

Funny thing about Manchester is people don't talk about sort of race relations in the way they do in London. They just get on with it. You know, I mean uh not that it's relevant being I'm I'm a Man City fan, so I I'm up in Manchester a lot.

I know there are Jewish fans and there are Muslim fans, but nobody ever thinks about it. You know, there there isn't a Muslim club or and there isn't a Jewish club. The division is Manchester City and Manchester United. Div the division the division i and it's the same at United, by the way. It's the same at United. Manchester is a

a city which where terrorists have tried to divide it before on two very famous occasions or infamous occasions, the IRA attack and and the attack on um Manchester United and eight years ago. Et ça n'a pas fonctionné. And it won't work this time. I remember being there for the aftermath of the A Ariana Grande concert and the first thing we noticed we got off the train, you know, within hours of it happening.

was all the people queuing up at the blood donation. Yes. And people just I mean, y it's just such a practical response to horror and terror is to go, what can I physically Bodily do. i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w llawn i'w You never really know if you

If this is just a one off you never really know what the impacts can have. But it was a very noticeable thing. And obviously, you know, people have been killed. On Yom Kippur in a synagogue or outside the synagogue. And it it is it is shocking. It is it is shocking. I often find, you know, all of us are journalists and we've

We've covered things over the years and sometimes it sometimes I think when you're a journalist you don't have time to think about the human consequence of what's happened. So yeah, I'm trying to as a city, just thinking about it, do that and I know you have as well.

I mean it r this really is an abysmal moment for us as Brits that this has happened. I think And it's interesting you say that. Brits not Jews. No, no. Not Mancunians. But but Brits. It's something for the whole country this. No. I mean I I know in my heart of hearts that if this person was trying to divide Manchester and the country, that he won't succeed.

But I also know, very sadly, there are many people in our profession, and sadly in journalism, on the right I have to say, and probably on the left as well. who will try to use this and are already using it to divide. When you say when you say already using it, what do you mean? Well I mean I switched on G V News. Uh actually as soon as I heard about this.

They were talking about how uh the Prime Minister may, uh, in their view, or in the view of whoever was talking, had lost control over the number of Muslims in this country and so on. Now that makes all kinds of assumptions about what the attack is and who the perpetrator is. But it is also, in my view, what terrorists want. I mean, I'm the person that edited the Sun uh back in uh nine eleven, the Attack on the Twin Towers.

and I wrote a leader two days after, which is the thing I'm most proud of that I ever did in journalism and and the headline was Islam is not an evil religion. I felt very strongly that that is what terrorism is. It it seeks to divide. And as journalists we shouldn't be doing their job for them. Yeah. I mean Turning Point UK. Just tweeted, Britain is under attack, the enemy is within.

We still have to do that. Where did you hear that? That was Trump two days ago talking to his room full of generals. I can guarantee it's very early in the US, but you know, John, you know as well as I do when they get up. they'll be on Truth So Short and they'll be on X and they'll be saying that. So take you back to when you were editing The Sun and Nine Eleven to today. And in the meantime we've we've also just past the twenty year anniversary of

seven seven. Yes. You know, the bombing of London. Do you feel that things I mean, if people say to you things have got worse, do you think anti Semitism and Islamophobia have got worse in that time? Do you think it stayed the same? Like what is your gut sense? I I I'm an optimist about the country. And I don't think actually that they have. I I think I was interested you asked that question. I was thinking when I was watching Keir Starmer's speech I think it was just two days ago.

that actually he maybe he's more in touch with the people in the media is what I was thinking. Not that's a political point, but he was reaching out to the tolerant heart of the British soul, which I think does exist. What has happened, what has changed since nine eleven is that large parts of our political class, particularly on the right and the media and you talk about it all the time, have

attach themselves to this, I would say, near extremism because it's a commercial thing. It's that y there's you know, it's a it's you know, Fox News makes a lot of money. You know, G B News is starting to make a lot of money. It is sad to me that so many of my generation of newspaper people that I grew up with this is a slightly separate issue from what we're discussing or is linked.

I've become I hesitate to use the word radicalised and you know I don't mean I mean they put stuff on social media which is not true and they don't seem to care anymore. And it drives their user numbers and therefore they become more successful and it's quite difficult to get a job in parts of the media if you're not of that persuasion anyway. So Sadly. So what's gonna happen over the next twenty four hours I'm afraid is when we see a lot of the press.

uh and some broadcast media, uh not the BBC obviously, not L B C we're gonna see people really exploiting the situation if I'm really honest. So trying to raise the temperature rather than the other. Yeah, trying to raise the temperature partly for commercial reasons, but mo mostly because they're already entrenched. They're already there and they all react.

to I mean give me another example. You talked about the US. There was an attack I think in just the day before yesterday on a church. Yeah yeah the Mormon church. Now I think Trump posted on Truth Social that it was an attack on Christianity, giving the impression, I thought, that it was someone that wasn't Christian that had perpetrated the attack. And of course it turned out i th that wasn't the case. And there'll be a lot of people now that are out there saying stuff before we know.

John just made a really full throated defence on this programme of the need to separate people going about their everyday worship and their religion from what is happening in foreign governments and their foreign affairs policy.

But inevitably there will be people trying to link that together and say this is what happens when, you know Either you reach out and recognize a Palestinian state or when you don't speak up loudly enough against the Israeli government and its actions in Gaza, what do you do with that? Uh I think we have to try and bring it back. I am certain that within the next twelve hours Netanyahu will say something, if he hasn't already, about this attack.

I think that's inevitable. Of course he will. Of course he will. And link it and link it to the recognition of Palestine. I I I I don't know. In a way of course of course he should say something about the attack. any Israeli Prime Minister would. But I think he will say something th a little bit like that, yes.

I had for various reasons I'm not Jewish myself, but I I had to drop some children at Bar mitzvah in Wimbledon actually just a few weeks ago and what struck me going into that synagogue was the fear on people's faces'cause they didn't know me. You know. And These are good peop I and that's a cliche, but these are really, really lovely people who will now be feeling very scared. Uh and I I think that's sim very important for us t to answer. A lot of people

who are listening to this will be feeling very threatened and very scared, who have nothing to do with the with the international conflict. But it is also true that those people that are in charge of the world, that are, you know, how Create Hate and uh anger. Um hate and anger are there's a lot a lot of those emotions a lot more of that those two emotions around than there used to be. And in in in my old world, the newspaper world

They're the superpowers. They seem they seem to be the new superpowers that drive, you know, so the more hate and anger there is the more you sell, the more angry you get, the more emotional people are, the more likely people are to click and keep on the websites. And that's something that I think our generation of journalists just have to be aware of and maybe s maybe

start to call each other out on. And I think there's evidence of that. I think that is happening a little. Daddy Allen, really good of you to come in and show it to us. Thank you. News here in Edinburgh. My American week is next. Reporting from the Hearth. Listen on. app or the new LBC app. LBC leading Britain's conversation.

Well in the spirit of what David Yellen was just saying, perhaps we should end today by talking about some of the good that has been done today. The the people who have come to the rescue of the public, of communities, you can find all the hate and all the blame you want online if you go and search for it. But we're not gonna do that here. Yeah, we're gonna talk about the police who were incredibly far

in getting to the scene of this appalling crime. The rabbi at the synagogue, Daniel Walker, who had blood on his robe, as it emerged that he had led the congregation to safety, you know, as this event was unfolding. Yeah. And all those who are extending their hand to a Jewish community, not to try and separate them from the Muslim community of this country but to recognise that any community under attack It's bad for all of us.

Look, if we were better Jews we wouldn't be here today, we'd be in synagogue. Um but our hearts and I hope the hearts of everyone in Britain are with the victims of this. And that this hatred achieves nothing. We'll be back tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye bye. Bye for now. This is a Global Player original podcast.