“Yes She Can“ - The Obamas on Stage for Kamala

This is a Global Player original podcast. We need a president who will stand up for their right to bargain for better wages and working conditions. And Kamala will be that president. Yes she can! He's back for one night only. That was Barack Obama throwing his full star power behind Kamala Harris, the man who promised. Nearly twenty years ago, hope and change and the man who told everyone, Yes, we can, is now passing on that mantra to Kamala Harris herself.

Yes, the mood here in Chicago is insane. Optimism, hope abounding, pumped energy that is beyond belief. And after the chaos of the past few weeks. With the question of whether Joe Biden would pull out of the race or not, and what would then follow, the surprise headline in Chicago is Democrats in a ray shock. But what about the rest of the country? Is that feel-good factor spreading out from Chicago? Welcome to the NewsAnd'USA.

It's Emily. And it's John in Chicago. And the United Centre has been humming as if it was one of the greatest nights. in the Chicago Bulls history, who are the basketball team who play there. Because the place is absolutely packed. We get floor passes which allow us to stand on the floor where Michelle Obama or Barack Obama are speaking. And you cannot move. There are so many people packed in and the levels of excitement and the people whooping and cheering and crying and shouting and screaming.

is like nothing I've ever seen in any political meeting because it's just such a feeling of relief, yeah, that Joe Biden's got out of the way. But also this unalloyed joy that they now think maybe we can win the election in November which they didn't think four weeks ago.

And I guess into this then walks this ultimate star power, the forty fourth president of the United States speaking What, 20 years after his first ever convention speech for the Democratic Party in 2004? And his wife. Michelle Obama as a warm-up, i. e. the person that most Democrat leaning Americans wanted to run for president. She always shunned it, said she never would, but they are the ultimate golden cup. And I guess they're also, in this context, the couple that have been there before.

They're the couple. who knows what Kamala Harris is going through when she's being race baited by Trump. They're the couple that can say, Honestly, we did this, you know, sixteen years ago, we got there. America has had a black president. We've done it. We can do it again. And I really think that between them there was quite different messaging, wasn't there, in terms of the way Michelle Obama spoke, which was like

quite I would say it was quite fierce, it was quite angry, it was red meat. It was get up and do stuff. and Obama who kind of fell back onto that presidential warm, humorous we're all part of the same family. Did you get that in the room? Yeah, I did. And I thought that there I although I thought there was a marked change in the way of how to tackle Trump. Because I think that, you know

Four years ago it was all about the darkness of Donald Trump and the kind of terrible sort of dystopian future for America if Donald Trump became the president. I thought they were poking fun at him. There there was an element of almost deriding him, laughing him. And you got that with Barack Obama.

And he introduced this idea that about Donald Trump and his obsession over crowd sizes. It's worth listening to and then we'll pick up off the other end because we need to explain something that Barack Obama did. while he was spit saying this. There's the childish nicknames, the crazy conspiracy theories, this weird obsession with crowd sizes. Yeah, he sort of puts his hands as if to say when he's talked about size and Donald Trump, i it was very small indeed. This big? This big?

And he might not be talking about crowd sizes. That's the point, right? Exactly. Exactly. I I'm glad you I was trying to subtly allude to the fact that it may not entirely be about that. You've uh yes, you've made that I mean what's funny is And and you're so right. Obama would not have done that, you know, eight years ago. Uh, we saw Marco Rubio, who was on the stage in a in a sort of presidential debate for the Republican Party, alongside Donald Trump, try to make a slightly

um sort of seaside humor joke about the size of his hands and it just backfired. He just looked like an idiot. He looked like somebody who didn't really know how to take on Donald Trump and was a bit too scared to do it properly. When Barack Obama did it last night It was with the knowledge that he could make him look small just by talking about his obsession. I mean, that he didn't have to say any words at all.

And I think we should also play a little bit of Barack Obama talking about the people that they need to reach. And I thought one of the lines where he referenced was The the way some people, you know, we don't all share the same feelings and we don't all talk the same language, but when your grandparents say something that's a bit cringe, you still love them, you still reach out to them, you still try and guide them through.

And he kind of did this as if to say, you know, he referenced Abraham Lincoln, the Better Angel speech and said, We cannot lose voters by treating them like they're idiots if they support Trump. We have to reach across the aisle. Have a listen. If a parent or grandparent occasionally says something that makes us cringe. We we don't automatically assume they're bad people. We recognize that the world is moving fast, that they need time and maybe a little encouragement to catch up.

Our fellow citizens deserve. the same grace we hope they'll extend to us. I thought that was a really important passage. Because I think where Barack Obama has been so interesting is tak that wasn't aimed at Republicans, that's aimed at Democrats. That was telling Democrats. Stop being so bloody puritanical about everything and that unless you follow our line on transgender issues, unless you follow our line on race or Middle East or whatever it happens to be, then you are a kind of bad person.

Yeah, people have kind of good views and they have some bad views. But don't disrespect people along the way and don't be absolute. Which is what he rails about, you know, Barack Obama's gone on about social media being this sort of puritanical force which is just hopeless and it stokes culture wars which alienates support. And I think Barack Obama was trying to say to the audience then

Look guys, you're progressives, great. I'm a progressive too, but people aren't perfect and let's speak to them on their own terms without condemning. Bring them with you. And I thought that was really important.

Emily, you used the word ferocity a moment ago and I just wanted to play this clip of Uh Michelle Obama. Again talking about Donald Trump. Instead of laughing though, there is a moral ferocity to what she says. We know what comes next. We know folks are gonna do everything they can to distort her truth. My husband and I sadly know a little something about this. For years, Donald Trump did everything in his power to try to make people fear us.

See, his his limited, narrow view of the world made him feel threatened by the existence of two hard-working, highly educated, successful people who happen to be. Thank you. Thank you. I I I wanna know. I wanna know. Who's gonna tell'em Who's gonna tell him that the job he's currently seeking might just be one of those black jobs? She nailed that. She nailed that because she's referencing him at the Association of Black Journalists talking about

immigrants coming in and taking black jobs. And at the time you raised an eyebrow, we raised it on the on the podcast where we said, What exactly is a black job? What is he talking about when he's trying to put the fear of God into Americans that immigrants are coming to take not just white jobs, but black jobs. It made no sense. And Michelle Obama has just turned that round and I think there was something

You know, she spoke like somebody comfortable in her skin last night who wasn't afraid to take on the bully. And You and I were both in the room eight years ago when the most famous line, I think, of the whole Hillary Clinton convention was Michelle Obama saying, When they go low, we go high. And I remember you and I, we kind of we've discussed it since and we've said, Oh, that didn't really work, did it? You know, it's all very well been very gracious, but actually

it it didn't really work for the Democrats. You know, fundamentally they lost the election and fundamentally they never really had the response to Trump. And this time she kind of switched things round a bit and She made it a call to arms and she kept repeating this phrase like, Don't get wound up, don't get annoyed, don't get pissed. Do something. That was her rallying cry. In other words, turn all your frustration into volunteering, knocking on doors, licking envelopes.

answering the phone, stuff that you can do proactively that helps put Kamala Harris in power. Don't just sit there and whinge, because that, she said, is kind of what Donald Trump does. It's up to us to remember what Kamala's mother told her. Don't just sit around and complain. Do something. So if they lie about her and they will, we've got to.

Do something. If we see a bad poll and we will, we gotta put down that phone and do something. If we start feeling tired, if we start feeling that dread creeping back in, we gotta pick ourselves up. Throw water on our face and what? We only have two and a half months, y'all. Where there was message discipline. From both Barack and Michelle Obama was telling this audience that

Telling the Democrats who are gathered there with all that enthusiasm in their heart, this is going to be a tight race. It's going to come down to a few thousand votes.

In key swing states, everybody has got to be putting their shoulder to the wheel as much as possible to get every single vote out. And I think that that's this is another area where Donald Trump is exposed, and that is on this question of race. Simone Biles, when she won her one of the gold medals at the Olympic Games, the gymnast. All four foot eight of her said, I've got I really love my black job. And I just thought that was so clever. And it's catching hold now.

And you realise this has become almost a meme that Donald Trump has created to be used against him. He was great at creating memes that worked for him. He's now giving the ammunition that these people want to turn their fire on him. And I tell you something else. Donald Trump gave an interview a day or so ago. Donald Trump, in his whole history, has been absolutely vile about Barack Obama. The conspiracy theory about birtherism, he then, when he became president, sought to undo everything.

that he could possibly undo. Any plaque that had the name Barack Obama on it, he wanted to get a metaphorical screwdriver out and un and take it off the wall. Yet he gave an interview where he's talking about how much he liked. Barack and Michelle Obama. What is behind that?

I like him. I think he's a nice gentleman, but he was very, very weak on trade. If you take a look at what happened to our country trade wise, it was a disaster. The uh take a look at Japan, take a look at China, take a look at what happened with some of these countries, what they did.

But I happen to like him. I respect him and I respect his wife. Yeah, right. I think what is going on there is that Donald Trump has been criticized after that appearance at the black journalists kind of uh conference. where he said, I d you know, old Kamala Harris has suddenly adopted being black and he w he was accused of being racist. So what he's trying to do now is he's oh

I've never had a problem it's not that I'm racist. I mean I look at me. I I like Michelle Lots of my friends. Lots of my friends. Lots of my friends are black. Michelle, Barack. I love them. It's just that camera I can't stand. I think it's so transparent. But also it's him trying to sort of reassure the staffers around him who are pulling their hair out collectively right now. Every time he goes off message and starts this race baiting every time he starts trying to

have a go at her and her origins. He even said in the rally on Monday, I'm better looking than she is. I mean, it sounds insane. It sounds slightly hysterical. Maybe he was making a joke, but it's all about Histaffus kind of saying What are you doing? Go out there and just talk about manufacturing or talk about the economy or talk about trade. Talk about the stuff that you actually know about, that you can make a point about. Just don't get led down the path on race.

And so he's sort of halfway there and then pulling back. You can see the sort of struggle of a man who sort of knows he ought to stay on message but quite can't quite. And just just to go back to the Michelle line one more time. I think what is at the bottom of this get out there sort of stuff, you know, do something, is that they feel now that a win is possible. But they need a secure win. In other words, they do not want this to be a 2000 election.

where it ends up in the courts and after the courts it ends up in the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court, you know, the sort of Republican back, Bush back, Supreme Court of two thousand, then ends up handy it to Bush. They're saying we don't just want to win this. We want there to be such a clear margin between the two candidates that they are not even going to start to bring lawyers into this to have the whole January the sixth question again. And I think that is where you see

The urgency of what some of them are saying in the messaging, it's not enough to win it. It's got to be won decisively to stop all the shenanigans.

Well, when we come back, let's talk about the role that women are gonna play in this particular campaign and reproductive rights and a woman's right to choose, and also some key balance. The open up states that would have hitherto been safe Republican, but that the Democrats are now eyeing. The News Agents USA. There is a subtle, maybe not so subtle, underpinning of this whole convention. And That is that it's been about the women.

It has been about mothers, it's been about Kamala's mother, it's been about Michelle Obama's mother, Barack Obama's mother in law and his grandmother. It's been about Doug Mhoff's kids and how Kamla has been a stepmother to them. It's been Hillary Clinton talking about the glass ceiling

And it's been about Tammy Duckworth, that veteran who conceived her kids by IVF and said no military wound had been more painful to her than her own fertility. And I think if you tie in all these mentions Of mothers, of kids, of of women, you suddenly understand what is underpinning one of the key themes.

of the Democrats Convention, which is not just that they are on the verge Of electing the first female president of the United States, which they now believe they can, but that the overturning of Roe v. Wade under Trump's administration through the Supreme Court. was so fundamentally against the right. of American women, they want to remind them at every turn that they are the party for the women and the Republicans are the party against the women. One in three American women now live

under an abortion ban. I mean get your head round that and you understand why you are constantly going to hear this reference to the fifty three percent, you know, the larger majority in the US, the female vote. I can't overstate this enough. I think it's a hundred percent spot on what you've just said. And also it helps the Democrats in so many different ways in crude political terms. For a start you've got

Donald Trump, who's got a long history of making disobliging remarks about women, you know, you mentioned one I'm better looking than Kamala is. You know, the the quotes. from him when he talks about women are just so long and then. Yeah. Sexual abuse. Yeah. And misogynistic. And then you've got J D Vance who's got these really odd views about family and that uh maybe odd is a charitable description as well. You know, when he talked about childless cat ladies.

And against that, every time since the overturning of Roe vs. Wade that the issue of reproductive rights or a woman's right to choose is on the ballot as it has been in rock solid Republican Kansas, as it has been in Ohio, as it has been in Kentucky. Women have turned out to vote and they have voted for a woman's right to choose. They do not want the overturning of Roe vs. Wade. And so come November in the election.

There are propositions that are going to be on the ballot paper, because the ballot paper is not just about who's the president. It's about who you want as your congressman, who you want as your senator, who you want as your town council, all that. But there is going to be a vote on abortion rights. in North Carolina, in Arizona, and critically in Florida, which has become a safe Republican state.

And now the Democrats are starting to eye bits of the map where they could win that had hitherto seemed impossible. And that is because of this issue. And Donald Trump's stance on it and J.D. Vance's stance on it. And I think the Democrats believe they can capitalize here. And one other just little factoid.

Women go out to vote in higher numbers than men. Yeah. I mean, I think we should play you, um, from Monday night, a little bit of Hillary Clinton's speech because

Honestly, she brought the house down. And this was a woman who wasn't successful ultimately. She won the nomination, but when she was at her own convention there was a lot of unrest about whether Bernie Sanders had been sort of pushed back. A lot of his supporters thought that he should have had a better chance than he was given by the party itself. And yet on Monday night she probably got the best reception she's ever had.

And she talked about the glass ceiling. And she talked about the fact that, you know, she hadn't done it, but she was supporting Kamala who still could. We put a lot of cracks in the highest, hardest glass ceiling. And tonight Tonight so close to breaking through once and for all. And you know what? On the other side of that glass ceiling is Kamala Harris raising her hand and taking the oath of office as our 47th president of the United States.

I mean, there was also a bit where she references Donald Trump as a convicted felon. And almost on cue, like a sort of rocky horror picture show, you know, um audience participation, they start chanting Lock Him Up, Lock Him Up, which was the chant that his supporters always shouted to her. The difference being of course that she had not been convicted through the courts by her peers in a jury, he now has.

There was something I still would say slightly unsettling, actually, about hearing that kind of visceral chant on the floor, but it was a response to what she had had to go through from his fans who were, you know, kind of out to get her. Yeah, they were baying for blood. I honestly thought that was the best speech I've heard Hillary Clinton give. The funny thing is, I I think she was so weighed down.

by the expectation and by message discipline and, you know, what did the polling say she could say and what did the polling say she couldn't say. that it she just felt sort of slightly strangled and you know, devoid of any humanity when she was campaigning in twenty sixteen. I thought she was absolutely extraordinary the other night at the end of the year. They're all a bit freer, aren't they? They were all sounding even though it's, you know, organised within an inch of its little life.

they are all actually sounding rhetorically freer, right? And and the other person who I think, you know, She also delivered the most brilliant, electrifying speech, and again it is the women playing this central role.

in the Democratic Party, uh you could ask who are the women that are playing that role in the Republican Party? But it's worth listening to a bit of AOC because I honestly think Watch this space. She has got one hell of a future. I see a leader who understands. I see a leader with a real commitment to a better future for working families. And Chicago, we have to help her win.

Because we know that Donald Trump would sell this country for a dollar if it meant lining his own pockets and greasing the palms of his Wall Street friends. And I, for one, am tired. About of hearing about how a two-bit union buster thinks of himself as more of a patriot. than the woman who fights every single day to lift working people out from under the boots of greed, traveling on our way of life. There's one thing I would pick up on.

I would say that compared to, say, the Labour Party conference This is further to the left. We've had Joe Biden on stage talking about how I'm the most pro union president there's been. You know, it's about working rights and the downtrodden and really allying themselves with what in American terms they would say the middle classes, but we would say kind of working classes, I think. And it's unashamed and it's very self confident. If Kaman Harris does win

in November. I think it's gonna be the most left wing in American terms, president that we have seen in decades. I mean the funny thing is that of course Joe Biden was picked because he seemed to be the safest centrist pair of hands to bring you know, unconvinced democrats across the aisle. But if you look at his record in government, what he's actually done with the Inflation Reduction Act, with the Jobs Act, with the payouts for COVID.

what he's done in terms of injecting huge amounts of money in the economy, still with a slightly protectionist vibe, but creating what is it, eighteen million new jobs, you know, and and green technologies and all the rest of it. Of course, you know, he has pulled his party, actually Away from I think the direction many thought he would go in, which was sort of a little bit of a little bit of a little

centre centre or centre right and and actually towards Ocasio Cortez and others. You know, Bernie Sanders was on the stage last night and doesn't have

a bad word to say. Uh the the person I do want to talk about a little bit though is Doug Emhoff, because He is Camel Harris's husband. He is the first ever second gentleman. In other words, the first, you know, male spouse to female VP. But I suddenly realised until last night I'd never actually heard him speak.

And he did the introduction to Kamala because I guess, you know, he knows her better than anyone, and their tenth wedding anniversary is on Thursday when she makes her own big speech accepting the nomination. And last night we heard how they met, and there was something very kind of Geeky, folksy about him spelling out the phone message that he'd left her and how she replays it to him on their anniversary because it's so bad.

Now, for generations, people have debated when to call the person you're being set up with. And never in history has anyone suggested 830 AM. And yet, that's when I dial. I got Kamala's voicemail and I just started Rambling. Hey, it's dug. So he's laughing at himself, which I think is critical. One of the things you never ever hear Trump do is laugh at himself. What have you got? with both M Half, with Tim Waltz, you've got this ability to laugh at themselves.

But he then goes on to talk about his kids and her, the blended family. And you referenced JD Vance. M. Hoff didn't spell it out by name. But clearly there was a sense of, you know, the cat lady craziness in what he was saying. He sort of took it on. He said

There was a maturity to speaking about blended families. He said, You know what, this is how most families are. Divorce isn't a good thing, but it's a common thing. Let's not pretend people don't break up, let's not pretend people don't have stepkids and wider families.

you know, this is not a family off a breakfast cereal packet. It is messy and complicated, but still loving and patriotic and committed. And then there was a bit where he admitted, I never knew this, that his own kids do actually call her Mamala? Oh my god, I thought that was a Drew Barrymore thing. They do actually call her Mamala. Maybe we just, you know, we're too British for that kind of stuff. But i his role was very clear there.

to show the personal side of Kamala, the female side of Camela, and to show how central she is to his own blended family. It was a kind of two fingers up to Vance, wasn't it? So You know how on this podcast we like to pull the curtain back a little bit, a a f very well connected friend of mine, just days after Biden pulled out of the race, hosted a fundraiser. o Kamala Harris, sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n sy'n

when she heard that Biden was pulling out of the race. She was in Washington. Doug Emerhoff was in the West Coast. And so she rang him immediately. He was at Soul Cycle and and she said to him, You've got to get back immediately. I think Harris only had a few hours additional notice And apparently there was some huge air traffic control screw-up, which meant that there were no flights going from the west coast to the east coast.

And what this friend of mine was saying is he said, Look, their relationship is so tight And there is such a sort of mutual dependence on each other. There's you know With Donald Trump. a Melania, the number of times I saw her push his hand away when he tried to hold her hand or I remember following them off stage when they uh did this speech at the White House for the Republican convention because there was no normal convention. And the moment they thought they were out of camera shot,

She just quickly as fast as she can gets away from him. And Melania Trump you hardly ever see on on the road. I mean you saw her very briefly at the Republican convention. But I think that the sort of relationship between Kamala Harris and Doug Emhoff is absolutely for real.

It's really interesting, isn't it? I mean, you know, obviously we sound like we've kind of drunk the happy juice because I think that is the sense you get from that convention right now. I I mean I think this is you know, that this is part of the problem, isn't it? That you sort of you are just surrounded by all this kind of joy and potential and, you know, the talk of change. And I guess the question that we asked at the very beginning of the podcast is

Is it spreading? You know, is it being felt more widely, or any, you know, normal whatever that means Americans tuning in and saying, Oh, I didn't think I'd vote for Kamala but I might now? And I guess that's why you hear so much of this personal introduction.

Because that's the stuff that people will repeat to their friends. They won't take policy out, they won't take You know, they're not going to start talking about jobs numbers particularly, you know, uh down the bar, but they might tell the story.

of how Doug Emhoff left a terrible voicemail for, you know, his wife to be when they first met, because that is the kind of thing that they think other people can relate to. You know, it's about whether your daughter or whether your son finally start Talking to your partner as if you know they were part of the family, because that's something that people can relate to.

That's why there is so much emphasis, you know, on Stuff that might sound to the British ear slightly schmaltzy and slightly kind of cutesy because that's the stuff that they reckon will actually start to move, you know, not just the vibes but but the numbers. Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. I think y and it's right to s kind of ask ourselves, have we drunk the Kool Aid? Are we now kind of, you know, just happy clappy supporters? No, I think there are still real challenges.

I thought we would have heard more fr about policy, about what they were going to do, about detail at this convention than we have heard. I still think that if Donald Trump can and it's a big if If he can focus on the economy, on the border, America's place in the world, then I think that, you know, this race is far from over. At the moment Donald Trump is tripping up a lot, but if he stops and if he focuses and finds a line of attack

that actually resonates, then, you know, the Democrats have still got some big questions to answer. I think the economic plan that has been sketched so far is fine as far as it goes, but there's some important detail that is left out. Will Americans vote for further tax cuts, which is what Donald Trump is promising. So I think there's a you know, but it's a long ten weeks to go. W what I would say is I think Donald Trump's rhetoric has weirdly to actually do something different.

And by that I mean that when it was Hillary Clinton, we all remember that she was so policy heavy. It was like she worked for the sort of NPR, you know, broadcasting station. Here are my numbers, here is my policy, readmywebsite.org.

And Trump didn't do any of that. He just made people feel good when they got to his rally. You know, we've seen it, we've been there. People love being there, they make friends in the queue, they bring their deck chair, they you know, it's it's like a it's like a sort of um You know, a tailgate after a after a football game, before a football game.

And I think in a funny way, the Democrats have learnt that from Trump. They've learnt that you don't have to spell everything out in minute detail with a ledger and an Excel spreadsheet. You can just kind of

Make people feel like they want to be a part of something. And that that might be the best thing that he's taught them actually in this eight years. We'll be back after the break. Agents US Newsagents USA And hello to everyone joining us from Chicago. The delegates at the Democratic National Convention, well they just completed their roll call.

And they have nominated Coach Walls and me to be the next Vice President and President of the United States of America. So with this perfect moment of timing, Kamala Harris. is nowhere near Chicago at this point. She is in the FISERF centre. in Milwaukee, the swing state of Wisconsin, where Trump just last month had his own Republican convention. I was there, I remember the size of the room, and she was talking to a packed crowd.

as she was played out to Beyonce just at the moment where the convention had, as they say, put her over the top. In other words, all the delegates had added up to the right number to make her the nominee for president. And I do think something that m maybe we haven't sort of articulated is very strong is that Kamala Harris is on the ticket with Wolves and also Biden. In a way, there are three of them. I mean without getting into a sort of Lady Diana line, there are three of them on this ticket.

There's Biden's achievements, you know, or or failings, if they want to look at it like that, whatever he's done. There's Wolves, who's the newcomer, who people are just getting to understand, and there's Harris, the prosecutor, the VP who linked from the old and new and, you know, the pioneer, the woman who might now be the first ever female president of the United States. And so in a weird way, the fact that Biden is still there in the shadows.

means that there is this triumvirate, I think, on the ticket now, which in a way is stronger. Well, I I felt there was a sort of bleeding away of Biden's power after Monday night. You could feel it. You could feel that he was no longer quite that central figure. in this whole race. And I think Well maybe we will call him the Holy Ghost. How about that? Yeah. Yeah. The magic or whatever you want to call it that Kamala Harris is trying to pull off, whether she can do it or not.

Is she is going to have been the incumbent vice president for three and a half years and stand in November as the change candidate? How do you pull that off? And she's doing it by saying, I am of a different generation. very, very important piece of messaging, given it was gonna be a between a seventy eight and an eighty one year old. And I think she is somehow positioning herself as some someone who is representing something new.

It would have been impossible for Joe Biden to have run as the change candidate having been president. And Donald Trump was the change candidate in twenty sixteen when he said I wanna kind of run a million miles from what Barack Obama's done the previous eight years. But Kamala Harris is trying to simultaneously pull off this idea that, yeah, I'm proud of the achievements of the last three and a half years, but I am the change candidate as well. I think that's a good thing. That is herself.

And I think um the novelty value should not be underestimated actually, because Trump I think it was Obama who used this word stale. And I really kind of I was sort of s slightly shocked. I mean, I was running up a very steep mountain at the time and I was like, Oh God, you know, that was a weird moment'cause I was like, Yeah, Trump used to be, you know, he used to be the future once, as they said. He has now stood for this same race.

three times. They've heard it. We have heard it all before. We know the lines. We know what he says. We know how he sounds. She is now bringing something that feels like novelty value. And I don't mean to be reductive by saying that. But it does make people turn up, right? Turn up the volume for the first time because

I think there are loads of people in America who still don't know what she really is, who who don't know what she sounds like, really, who don't know Tim Walls at all. And for them there will be a kind of Well, we we know this guy, we've heard that guy. What else is there? And you know, it it may end up coming down to that. Look, a month ago all bets were off it was going to be a Trump landslide. No one thinks that right now. We'll see you next week. Bye bye. Bye for now.

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