Welcome to the new manager podcast. I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hello and welcome to episode 28 3 stories about promotions. And there will also be kind of a bonus story as I was planning out this episode. I realized that each of these stories points to a bigger concept that I'm really looking forward to sharing with you
today. And before we get started, I want to give a shout out to To my student, Terry, she took my class for new managers and some of the feedback she shared with me was that even where there were some familiar Concepts, it was still nice to get some very useful phrases and Framing and also helpful to view poor management by others as a lack of Education or perspective rather than as a character flaw.
And I so appreciate that, and it makes me so happy when my students have these insights because I found, it really is true. And it really is valuable that a very small shift in perspective can have a very outsized effect on the way that you communicate, the way that you have your
experience at work. I mean the difference between having a manager who's not doing a great job and thinking either, Ash, this person has a character flaw, which doesn't feel great, and you feel sort of Trapped like this person can't possibly change and having not a great manager experience. But instead thinking, oh, this person hasn't learned how to manage people effectively. I mean, it's a skill set.
They just haven't learned how to do that, well, yet that can really change your Personal experience of that situation, as well as shift, the way that you communicate and interact with this person that can turn into significant positive, change for you for them for everybody that you all work with. So I wanted to highlight that. It's a really great reminder that even though relationships can be complicated and the workplace can be complicated. There are some fundamental
things. That might be already familiar to you and when you look at them in a new light it really makes a big difference. So isn't that nice to know you don't have to read all the books and do all the things sometimes? It's just a small thing that actually helps lighten. The load in a significant way. So let us now talk about promotions. I have three stories for you. And the first one is from years ago. Ago when I was on a team and then I was promoted to manage
that team. And so if you have ever Had to manage friends, like you were peers before. You are all the same level and then something changed. You got promoted and now you're their manager. What happened with me is number one. I was really excited. Hey, I got this promotion. This is so great. And then I had this moment of realizing, oh, like, how is my relationship different?
Now to my friends, and they were asking the same question, and in fact, one of them came to me and he said, Kim, I want to congratulate you on your promotion. I think you'll be a great manager, but I, I don't know how
to be friends with you now. And I'll tell you when he said that, it kind of gave me pause and I thought, oh no, I didn't want to lose a friend here, but I really appreciated that he said that and I've always remembered it all of these years later because what I didn't understand really, until that moment is that, when I stepped into a formal manager role, the
powered, I'm at Dynamic changed. So, before when we were colleagues, and we had the Same manager, we could go to lunch together and complain about our manager or talk about, you know, what is leadership doing. We could just have conversations as people who are similarly situated in our relationship to the organization. But when I got promoted all of a
sudden, I was the manager. So if he was having a difficult time, I would be the one that he was complaining about or feeling frustrated with so So that was a thing to acknowledge but also moving into a manager role now meant that I had real power over him and over everyone on the team.
And I don't mean that in an egoic kind of way or like in an inflated sense of self kind of way but in this very real very practical way at the end of the year, When I was doing performance reviews, I had the discretion to decide how promotions could be distributed, how raises and money, and salary and bonuses could be distributed. And the way it worked in my organization at the time, was, as a manager, I was given like this pool of money.
And I could distribute that in, you know, percentages to all of the teams. So there was kind of this expectation that if it went exactly evenly, everyone would get like a 2% increase. I don't remember what it is, I'm making this up, but like a 2% increase. But if someone had in a really great job, I could give them, you know, 2.5 or even three percent. But that would then mean reducing the available amount to give to others. Hours.
So, when you think about it in those terms, on a very practical level, having that kind of power over someone's life, over their money, their salary that is really significant. And so when I moved into that role and my friend said, hey, I don't know how we can be friends anymore.
You're now my boss, this changes things a little bit, it really was the first time that I thought about what that meant On that level not just about me getting a promotion me getting you know, a salary increase me getting a new title, but what did this mean in the relationship? I had with with other people. So I want to share this with you because if you find yourself in a situation where you are being promoted to now manage folks, who had been friends and now,
there's a power change. Now, you're a Officially their manager. I want to offer that it is valuable to really acknowledge that it might feel awkward both for you. But also for the folks on your team and in some cases it might be valuable perhaps in your one-on-ones or even in a team meeting.
If everybody has worked with you as a peer before to Simply acknowledge, hey, this might feel kind of weird that I'm now your manager and if that changes the currency And have conversations we have that's totally fine because when you are in that manager role, your job is to support your team to do the best work that they can. And at the same time, your responsibilities to the organization shifts a little bit because you now we'll have more insight and more visibility to
other things that are happening. Some of which you will not be allowed to tell to your friends who port to you. Because there will be information that you are required to hold in confidence until it's officially announced so oh related to that too. If you find that you are not sure how to show up. You know. Am I a friend? Am I your manager and holding you accountable for things? You can also be explicit about that too, and you can do that with kindness and with Clarity.
So people know, am I talking to you in my friend relationship or am I talking to you as my manager? And is this going to have a you know is this going to show up on my record somewhere? Right? Like what is our agreement around confidentiality and around privacy of what I share with you? You want to be aware that there is now this new Dynamic happening and you want to be respectful of that.
So that is our story. Number one, I'm getting promoted to becoming the manager of people with whom you are friends and had been peers before. And, you know, final note on this story is that if you feel uncomfortable or awkward or like you don't know how to navigate that that change. I just want to let you know that that's a normal thing, you know, a lot of us like where else would you have? Practice making that transition in the shape of that relationship. It might be new for you.
So if it feels awkward that's totally normal and totally fine. Okay. Story number two. This one is a little bit about scope creep but there's also a caveat. So one of the other things that happens when you have a desire to get promoted from within an organization, is that you may be required to demonstrate that.
You have all of the qualifications and that you can perform at that level and I'm thinking specifically, Of a woman that I worked with this was, oh gosh, this was a long time ago, this was very early in my career and, you know, we were peers and she was going for a promotion and for I want to say it was like three months. This role was open and she had talked with her manager. And she said, I really want that promotion. I want that role and he said
great. So what you need to do is you need to do the job so we can see evidence that you have Have you know that you can perform at the level required to to officially receive this promotion and designation. And so for three months, her scope of work changed, she was taking on more responsibility and at the end of that period of time, she was awarded this promotion and everything was
great. And I mention this because I think this is a very common practice within organizations, which is You're there at a level, you want to go a level up and they say well let's start to expand your responsibilities. Now to ensure that you can perform at the level required and that you can, you know, really take this on and
sometimes that's fine. When we know that there is a dedicated check-in point when it's part of the conversation of your advancement But sometimes not necessarily because people are malicious or have a bad intention but let's just be honest, sometimes people we get a little bit lazy we get a little imprecise or we don't make explicit hey the reason why I'm doing this is because I want that I want that role I want
that promotion. So what can happen is this idea of scope Creep. So, your scope of responsibility expands you're taking on more responsibility, you're doing more things, you're taking on a bigger, a bigger piece of work, and it's grown beyond what you initially came in for, or what, initially the role was described at, and you just end up taking on more work and nobody seems to know. Otis or they say, yeah you know, this will be really good for you to get a promotion, you know someday.
I don't know when. But like, sometime in the future and you want to be aware of when this is happening, because it can be easy to fall into the pattern of just over giving without speaking with Clarity and being direct about I want to get promoted. How do we do this, right? I have also had students who have brought this to me and in coaching them through how to think about it, what I shared
with them. And what I'll share with you is, you can go to your manager, when your manager is is asking you to take on more things. And you can also pause the conversation and say, okay, and let's talk about how this is going to get me into a promotion. How does this going to map to expanding my title? And my compensation in a way that accurately reflects the
work I'm doing now? And I want to, you know, kind of pause and repeat that a little bit because there's actually a distinction I want to make in our own mind. We think about get I want to get that promotion. It can be easier to frame the conversation. As hey, my scope of work has been expanding. Let's bring my title and compensation. To match and reflect accurately. What?
That is and that can feel more collaborative, we can feel less combative, it can feel less like something to overcome and it's sometimes these subtleties and how you approach the conversation that can make it easier for people to say yes to you like make it easy for your manager to say yes, of course, we ought to To change your title or give you a promotion in order to accurately, reflect the performance that you're delivering the work that you're doing.
We can see this this track record of really how you've grown. So there's always, you know, it's very common that there's going to be a sort of this overlap of you expanding what you do, and then your title and salary, and all of that, adjusting to match that But remember to make sure that you have an eye on it, that you are paying attention that you are keeping a record of evidence of how you are growing and contributing in a bigger way.
All of that will also make it easier for your manager to support you in being promoted. Okay. So that is our story number two about scope creep. Just be aware that sometimes it happens and we want to make sure it's not like a forever kind of thing. We want you to be very intentional about it so that it really is supporting your bigger goals and what it is that you
want. okay, my third story for you about promotions is my favorite of this set because this is one of the things I feel most proud of in my own career and especially when I was in a managerial role at this other company many years ago and when I came into this manager position, One of my friends who was now on my team, right? So we also negotiated that and I really credit her for being very direct with me. And she said, all right. Kim, you're now my manager, we
have to have a talk. We need to talk. I said, Okay. And she said, look, I have been getting highest marks on my last performance reviews. Like for the last 5 years or more, she had been getting highest marks on her performance reviews exceeds expectations. Time and she said, I am tired of this role. I want to get promoted. I deserve it. I've been doing way more work than my job was originally scoped for and I don't know, how can you help me?
And she asked me this and I thought, oh my gosh, I don't know how either, I don't know what that. What that even entails I don't know how to do that. Like I just got here. I just became a manager. I Don't even know what other, you know, options are available in the company. It was a very big organization and it could sometimes feel very difficult to navigate, but I really listened to her and she was right.
She had been performing at a very high level consistently for years and some of the challenges that I knew that she was facing had nothing to do with who she was or her level performance, right? Like what I was seeing was that Organization had gone through a few different re orgs. So levels were added levels, were cut different departments changed and part of that created, just a kind of confusion over. How do you plan forward movement, right? How do you plan where you want
to go up to next? When the structures are changing. So that was a question and the other Thing that I thought about was because, you know, our managers had been changing. Also as a result of this, it was very difficult to find someone to advocate for her to find someone who had like higher level of visibility who could
say. Okay. You know, here's how you move through this organization and so there was a lot of uncertainty and just, I could feel her frustration and at the same time, And I was thinking, oh my gosh, this company is really missing out on her full capabilities, because she's doing an amazing job in this role that she's in. We could use her in a more
powerful more effective way. Like she has grown so much in the years that she's been here, we must find a way and by we I was thinking okay, that's my job and also who, you know looking over. My shoulder, like, who else is here in manager world? Who can help me figure out how to do this. But as an organization we can benefit from all of her strength from all that she's doing and it's important to do so before she gets so frustrated, she just
leaves, right? So in the course of working with her and then talking to my manager and saying hey I have this incredibly High performing person on Team, how can I support her in, moving to a higher level role? How can I support her and getting promoted into some kind of something that's more fitting for who she is now? And it took time, I had to connect with my manager. We had to connect and look sort of at what was happening across
the organization. It required dedicated effort and it, it was one of the most Illuminating experiences, because up until that point, I really didn't appreciate how unclear organizations can be and how they staff and develop talent and place people. Like, it really seemed obvious. She's performed so. Well, we have all of this evidence that she's doing great. Why wouldn't we take advantage and put her into a better position? And I just really realized how gosh to some extent.
Nobody knows what they're doing. Everybody is making it up as they go along. If there's so many moving Parts. It can sometimes be very unclear and very frustrating, but the reason I'm sharing this story is because before I left that organization and while I was still a manager, I was able to support her in getting the promotion that she wanted. It was definitely overdue, but it did happen. And it was so rewarding to know that I had been able to help.
And I think that as managers one of the greatest opportunities, and one of the greatest gifts that we have, is that you do have Of the power to help Elevate others. You do have the power to begin to Advocate, to begin to ask questions, to begin to, kind of connect, these different pieces of people and relationships and work and do it in a way that elevates other humans. But that also creates Improvement for the organization as a whole So, you get to be that. For others on your team.
So those are my three stories about promotions the first one about when you get promoted up and you're managing friends being aware and really respectful and mindful of how that power Dynamic is now different. How that's changed. Second story about scope creep. So yes, there will be times when you will need to do more work or to expand your responsibilities in order to demonstrate. Yes, I'm ready for this new level and also make sure that it's not neglected or overlooked.
Make sure that this is an active conversation so that it is moving in the direction that You'd like it too, and if it's not, then you get to ask about it. And third, as a manager, you now get to help others, get promoted, you get to help Elevate and uplift them to the benefit of this human, as well as the organization and all the
other humans. Now, as I was going through all of these stories on my own and thinking about them, one of the things that stood out to me that I wanted to share, and this is kind of the bonus thread that Connects it all. Is that you know when we are kids and we're growing up for those of us that have gone through kind of a like a, you know, standard education, where you go to school, and then you go to a bigger school and then you go to a bigger school,
right? There's this experience, we have of generally speaking. Every year we advance And if we think about this word promotion, it like to think of it as forward movement, right Pro going forward towards something motion, this idea of activity of momentum. And so when were in school, we're getting promoted every year and we're physically going into a different classroom. We have different assignments, we have different classmates,
different teachers. So there's this kind of a case Cadence that we can very comfortably sink into and as we then move into adulthood and move into the open Waters of the Working World, one of the very disorienting things at least for me especially in my in my early career, it was so disorienting to not have a sense of that forward movement. What does that forward movement look like, what does that promotion? Jewel or cycle. Look like like, how does that happen?
And the biggest kind of astonishing thing. And this might seem obvious to you. So you might laugh and that's okay. I mean I do now and I think back on it but at the moment it was so astonishing to me was realizing that okay, when we were in school and when we were kids, there's always somebody. Observing us and evaluating us. We're getting graded all the time. You know we have exams.
There's this Sense of somebody's paying attention and they're evaluating us against some clear standard and that is how we chart our own progress when we were in the open Waters of adult, professional life. I mean, this in the most loving way, nobody cares, like, no one is paying attention, because people are busy with their own lives and there is no set book with Scores in the grades that were all trying to measure up
against it's really quite fluid. And when that really registered for me, I was like, oh that's why, you know, that's why they always advise you to be sure to promote yourself. Like let people know what forward momentum you have. Let people know what you are working on, you know, your manager doesn't. Ain't no, they're not over your shoulder. Paying attention to everything you do. They have their own things that they're working on to you. They don't have as much
visibility. They're not looking at you with the same level of scrutiny that we had when we were kids and growing up. And so part of navigating your career part of moving forward, in whatever capacity that looks like for you, it requires. And I want to say it really requires and it helps when you understand, oh, people might not see How I've grown people might not see the good work I'm doing.
I can make it visible by mentioning it or talking about it in my one-on-ones or I can find ways so that it doesn't disappear, I can find ways to activate the conversation of what is my next desire? My next step. What is my ambition? And maybe what you're going to Mission is I just want to get so good at the craft of this thing and I actually don't want to manage people.
I know that might sound weird on a podcast for new managers but this is true that this is something that I've reckoned with and many of my students, ask themselves to but this idea of forward movement. And what does that mean to you? What does that look like to you? And don't assume that your manager knows Or that anybody knows, because maybe things are changing or they are more fluid than you realize, and everyone is just trying to figure this out, one step at a time.
So, I hope that this episode has given you something to think about, in a way that will help you move forward, in whatever way that looks for you. I hope you have a wonderful day at work or night or afternoon, whatever that looks like for you. And I want to thank you so much for listening talk to you next time. Do you want personal confidential help with your
situation at work? I offer one-on-one coaching and can help you overcome challenges reach your goals and become a more effective leader to schedule a consult. Go to my website, Kim nickel.com coaching and we'll schedule time to talk about what's going on with you and how I can help talk to you soon.