Welcome to the New Manager Podcast. I'm your host, Kim Nichol. Hello and welcome. I'm glad you're here and I hope you're doing well. So last week was the last group session in the group program that started in September. This was only I think the second time I've run this program this year. I did the first one in February, the second one in September. The next one is going to be in February again. And I just have to say how incredible this is.
Like, it's amazing to be able to learn in a group setting with supportive peers who do not know you, who do not work with you, who do not know the exact situation that you're dealing
with. And I what I found in observing this as as I've been running this, is there two real benefits to it. The 1st is that you feel so much more safe when you're with people that do not know you and that don't don't actually know the work situation that you're in because you don't have to protect your image or your
relationship. There's a lot more sense of safety, to be really honest about the things that are challenging and the struggles you're facing and how you really feel about the people that you work with. There is this sense of, you know, just safety because you don't know each other. So nothing will get back to the people that you work with. Like, it's a very confidential space and you have room to just be really real with what you're dealing with, which is really nice.
And then the other thing that happens when you have this supportive peer group is that you get to learn through the questions and the celebrations that other people bring into the call. Because so many of the issues and challenges, the core of them can be quite similar, right?
If you're having an uncomfortable conversation, or you're not sure how to manage your manager, or you're having a challenge with somebody else who doesn't report to you but they affect your team and you're not really sure how to deal with a thing. There's so much that you learn by listening to someone else. Get coached on their situation, on their mindset, on the parts that they're feeling stuck in.
It's so interesting when you can hear someone else describing their situation and receiving coaching on it because you're not attached, because you're not immersed in it. So you can actually gain so much insight because you will recognize that elements that are relevant to you, but they won't feel like you'll like. You'll have less resistance to them because you'll receive the coaching and the insight by listening to the story that someone else is facing.
It's kind of like if you've ever had this experience where it can be so easy to feel like you've got answers to other people's issues, but for yourself, it seems really hard. It kind of works like that. It's like your resistance goes down a bit because you're listening to somebody else. And so that means that your receptivity goes up. When resistance goes down, receptivity goes up. So it can be easier and faster for you to think, oh, that's
actually a great idea. Oh, I could try that in my work situation. Oh, that makes me think of something really similar that I could do myself. Oh, I hadn't thought of of it in exactly that way. So I love the kind of the generative quality that comes from having a supportive peer group in the learning experience. I think that's one of the things
that is so great. And actually as I'm talking through this, what I'll say is the kind of the third benefit of that is it also starts to lower and reduce the anxiety that we feel just knowing that you're not alone, that the challenges that you face at work. Other people face similar ones too, even when they're in different industries or different, you know, size organizations. There is something that happens when we start to normalize the challenge. It feels less untractable.
It starts to feel more solvable because we also stopped taking it personally and feeling like, you know, it's some kind of personal failing or shortcoming, especially when you're really hard working and you're really smart. Often the background thought is I should be able to work myself through this. Like if I with with enough hard work because I'm hard working, I should be able to push my way through. Or hey, I'm a smart person I should be able to smart my way through this.
But so often it's neither the hard work or the intelligence that is actually the the issue. It's usually the perspective like the mindset how you're seeing something and very often some emotion related to the issue, to the issue or situation. So either feeling worried about how somebody else will respond or feeling guilty for yourself
for some reason. And it's actually that combo that is really tricky to solve for yourself, but so much easier to solve in a coaching experience and in a peer group experience. So I have just been feeling so much appreciation for the clients who have been in that this last quarter and feeling really excited for them and for what's next and what's interesting too.
Like, I've really been reflecting a lot this year on how can I best support my clients and my listeners and how can I best provide you with tools and with experiences that will help you to learn and apply and grow more quickly and more usefully. Like, I'm a really big fan of let the learning be supportive and nurturing and generative.
Otherwise what can happen is we can sort of just binge learn by overloading ourselves and then that can create more stress and more pressure and that actually slows us down. So everything I do, I wanna design in a way that makes it really easy to apply in a sustainable way. Like I want it to be really human in that sense, because I, you know, there's information, information is easy. Like you have an Internet filled with information.
And very often it's actually about being a bit more curated and selective and having space to reflect and then decide and then put something into action in a very doable way. And so it's been really interesting just in the last year as I've started to offer some group learning experiences, getting to see that actually happen in real time.
And one of the things I've really been appreciating from this group and that I really noticed is that the way that the pacing of the the program is in the way it's structured with a little bit of time away and then the times that we have together. And really trying to be very intentional about how we use our attention together so that we're not getting overwhelmed and we're not feeling like it's burdensome, but actually that it
reduces the burden. So it makes things easier on a daily basis and then that accumulates, which is very, very cool. But one of the things that I've noticed and have been really appreciating is just how much the application to insight ratio works. And what I mean by that is I have had so many experiences, especially before the Pandemic, when most of the coaching I did was larger groups in corporate environments and it was a full
day immersion. So it was like we were together for eight hours, maybe 16, 'cause sometimes I did 2 day training so I would be with folks for many, many hours all at once. And one of the things that I wanted to do when I designed this group program the way I designed it is I wanted to have a very high insight to
application ratio. Meaning when you had an insight, especially those small ones because the small ones really do yield significant changes, it's often a small shift in perspective that creates a big positive change. And so I wanted the insight to application ratio to be really high. Meaning that when you had an insight, you thought, oh, that's interesting. Oh, I could, I could use this. Oh, I hadn't thought of it in
that way. Oh, that's a new way of looking at it. I could, I could try that. I want that insight to then go into application quickly as opposed to thinking, oh, that's an interesting idea.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But then never actually applying it. Because one of the things I saw in the, you know, when I was doing those full day trainings is people could very successfully apply the concept after we'd been together for eight solid hours and had really designed an environment where they could do it. But then when they went back into the regular workspace the very next day, they just go right back into their old
patterns and their old habits. And it was like there was the gap between the insight where they think, you know, I know this intellectually, but I just can't figure out how to apply it in my real life. And so you know what? With this program, one of the reasons I feel so proud of it and so proud of the people who have been in it this year is having seen that high insight to application ratio, so that when you have an idea, it also feels very doable.
And as you do it and apply it, you gain confidence, you make it your own, you start to feel so much more capable and you start to realize, Oh my gosh, like this works. What else might work? And I've seen so many different examples of folks in different industries and a different levels of their career be able to do that.
And that's what it's all about, because if you only have the concept or the information or the insight, but you're not able to bring it to life in a meaningful way, then you're, you know, it doesn't, it won't help as much, right. So we want to have both. We want to have the insight, the idea, the concept, it totally makes sense and we want it to feel doable so that there's a kind of low resistance and then you start to actually implement it.
That's how it becomes sustainable, that's how you start to build these new habits and it's really cool. So that is that is top of mind and related to all of this too. So if you are not yet on my mailing list for this program, get on there. Go to my website kimnickel.com and go to the manager. The new managers page I've just updated it I am giving you. When you join that wait list, when you sign up for that mailing list, you are going to get access to my workshop on self advocacy.
You are going to get to watch the video where I'm teaching this three-step road map for self advocacy and how I talk about it in a way that so many of my clients have turned into so many yeses. And I'm telling you, when you start feeling more comfortable and more confident about asking for things, you increase the ability of other people to say
yes to you. So often we're worried about the no, we completely forget about the yes, the thing that you want to ask for your manager or your company or your organization. They might say yes, but you have to initiate it by making the ask. And I've seen so many times people hold back and very much like squelch this possibility of yes because they're afraid of the no or they're just really uncomfortable about making the ask.
So I am telling you, there are not a lot of things I kind of directly tell you to do. But I want to tell you, go to my website, join the wait list for the upcoming group program because that is how you can get free access to my workshop on self advocacy. And if you are already on my emailing list and you're like, where is it? Look in your e-mail, 'cause I'm sending, I'm going to send out a link just as a reminder to everyone who's currently on there. So that's going out this week.
I want you to know how to ask for what you want and how to do it in a way that feels good to you and that makes it more likely that you will get a yes and I have a lot of perspectives on this. If you've listened to this podcast for a while, you know because you've heard some of it. But now I want you to have this workshop available. So go to my website, kimnickel.com, go to the new managers page, Click to join the wait list, and you will get
accessed to that workshop. Now, I received a very great e-mail, a great message from one of my listeners, and she had a question and I thought about it and I asked her, I said, this is a really interesting question and I have some ideas for you. Is it OK if I respond by doing an episode on it? She said yes. So here's the situation.
The situation is that she is an associate product manager in a startup and she handles this one like project, this one product overall, sorry, this one overall project in the company. So not just a feature of a product, but actually this overall project. And she wrote to me and she said there's a strategic planning meeting in our company and I'm very confused why I wasn't part of it. I kept thinking if I, you know, have I not given my deliverables
enough visibility? Is it because my manager doesn't sponsor me? She's just confused about if she is the product manager, then why was she not invited to this strategic planning session? And she says here's what I've done to work on this. I update my manager on my wins and also my lows so that my manager knows I'm on top of everything. She also said I handle the team well. I create a great culture within
the project. And she said I contributed and spearheaded initiatives for financial gains, like things that drive savings from, you know, staffing, things that you know have to have a positive financial outcome. She's like, is there anything else I should do? Anything else I missed? I love this question because what it really highlights for me is how often we'll have an assumption about how things should go and when they go
differently. The one thing that she skipped, it didn't and actually I'm assuming this because I didn't see this in her message, is to ask. So you know a couple of things. One is, is that kind of strategy meeting something that happens all the time and is someone in your level typically involved? Like part of it is just how do things work here? Is that a a typical thing? Is it unusual that you are not included or you know, or or what? Like what's the bigger context
of that? But ultimately, the most valuable thing you can do is actually have a conversation with your manager. And so we can think about that in 2-2 moments. One is, if you know that there's this meeting coming up and you're expecting to be invited and you're not, you can ask your manager. Hey, I'm really curious about this upcoming strategic planning session. I haven't received an invite, but I know that it's happening. What are your thoughts?
I would love to go because I think I, you know, it would be important for me to be a part of that meeting. What do you think? So you can ask directly. If you know this is going to happen but you're not invited, just ask. Would it be OK if I come? I think I would. It would be great for me to come. What do you think? If the event has already happened, like you found out about it after the fact. You weren't notified at all. It wasn't maybe a a planned thing or somebody planned it but
they didn't think to invite you. Then the question is really similar, but to your manager, ask them, hey, I heard about this strategic planning meeting or oh, that strategic planning meeting that you mentioned for the project that I work on, I wasn't surprised that I wasn't invited. Why would I not be included? Like why was that? What are your thoughts about that?
And so The thing is, is you want to come to this question #1 from curiosity, and you want to really, genuinely be open to hearing what they have to say because it could be anything. It could be, you know, oh, I completely forgot to invite you. It could be, oh, none of the product managers were invited. It could be, you know, oh, I I felt uncomfortable inviting you because this, you know, other person was going to be in the meeting and I thought there would be friction.
Like, we don't know. But when you find yourself wondering, oh why did this happen or why did this not happen, my very first thought is ask the person who might actually know rather than try to guess. And this is also, you know, very relevant for anything around promotions or raises or, you know, participation in things. Don't assume your manager knows that you want to be involved or that you, you know, believe it's a great idea to be involved,
right? Like it could be a situation where maybe the manager says wow, but I I see that you've been working on so many things. I didn't want to overload you. I wanted to attend and then just give you the relevant parts. Maybe they thought they were being helpful. We we don't know. So having that relationship with your manager where you feel comfortable asking these kinds of questions is going to help you.
And in order to do that, first for yourself, you want to start to identify what are the assumptions you're holding about how things will work, how will things go. I assume they will go in this way. I assume that if this is my role, I assume that I will be included in these kinds of things. I had a client a couple of years ago and she was.
In one of our sessions, she was actually quite furious because there was this big planning meeting and it was, you know, on the other side of the country and she was not invited and somebody else was. And at first, like, she was just really angry. She's like, this is ridiculous. I, you know, I do so much work on this project. I should be there, participating in the conversation about planning and this and that. Like, I should definitely be
there. And so first it was the kind of the frustration and almost like the feeling of being offended. Like, I'm so offended they didn't invite me to this meeting. They should know that this is highly relevant to what I do. Like. That was her initial response as we coached through it. Number one, we want to process the emotion. Emotion is important. If we don't deal with it, it doesn't go away. It just waits and it will drain
the life out of you. Like, that's that's just my short hand on how I've observed emotions working within us. So we want to take the time to acknowledge the emotion and to acknowledge where it's coming from and what it's signaling for her. It signaled I'm being overlooked. I'm being disrespected. I'm, you know, somebody else is trying to elbow in or elbow me out. She was so upset. So we make room for the emotion first. Once we do that, we can then talk about options, which gets
us back to agency. What's in your hands? What can you do? What are your options? And that helps us to feel a bit more empowered and a bit more aware of the choices that you have, right. And in my client's situation, she ended up deciding, she said I'm going to advocate for myself. I need to speak up and let them know I need to be there. And she said I'm going to be really direct. I'm not going to be super, you know, sweet about it.
She's like, I'm a nice person, but I need to be very clear. So there is 0 misunderstanding and she ended up bringing this issue, you know, to the table, to her manager and to the person running the meeting. And she was really clear. She's like, look, I know we're having this meeting. I should be there For these reasons. And if I'm not there like This is why that's bad. Like, I need to be part of this conversation. You know, what can we do for me to get there?
This is my proposal. They were like, oh, you're right. So they ended up saying, yes, they flew her to New York. She was able to be a part of this meeting. And so it's sometimes like, you know, rather than guessing, rather than wondering, oh, what is it? You know, answer that question,
what do you think it is? And then you can look at what are the options that you have before you to test that assumption and you know how would you like to proceed, What is the next step going to look like for you? This is so good, especially when you have sort of have this feeling of, but I've done all of this, why is that not happening?
That usually signals there's some kind of expectation, There's a belief around how things work and then there's something that was not included in that assumption, right, Which might be about that specific manager, their personality, their intentions or something even bigger picture that is not always visible. The good news is you don't have to guess. You can ask. And depending on the situation and the relationship, there are
lots of ways to make an ask. And in fact, a lot of times, especially in my one-on-one coaching, part of what my clients love is they get to say, hey, here's the ask I want to make, but I don't know how to exactly how I want to do it. Because you know, either I have a bad relationship with this person, I'm going to feel super activated and emotionally, emotionally and angry with them. And I know I want to come to this feeling really grounded and calm and classy.
So like, how do I get there? So a lot of times the, you know, the one-on-one work is how do we take this concept? And then you have the room to talk through and really kind of practice. How do you want to say the thing that you're feeling frustrated with or feeling uncertain about how to say? I've had so many clients get such amazing outcomes from that because then they feel less worried, They feel a lot more prepared, and then they're like, oh, I know exactly how I want to ask this.
So when you're wondering why is this not happening, I did all these things. The obvious next step is, well, what if you ask your manager? Ask them. No, I saw that there was a strategy meeting about the product that I am the product manager of. I'm so curious why I was not included. I I would think it would be a good idea to include me. Like what? What am I missing? What am I missing here? And we can do that in a way that builds connection. That doesn't feel disrespectful.
That actually builds a greater sense of, like, confidence and trust. The sense that, Oh yeah, like you're on it, you know. But we don't always know. We don't always know why things happen. So when we wonder, we want to remember, it is possible to ask.
And so listen, if that is something that you want help with, if you feel like you're having to kind of guess at how things work and you're feeling actually quite uncomfortable with asking or you feel like you're not sure what to ask or how, that's something that I can help you with. Work with me for six months. We're going to get it all sorted out. I'm telling you it. It is a game changer. And this too. So I have two ways that you can work with me right now.
One is work with me, one-on-one new clients, work with me for a minimum of six months. It is a transformative experience. And the way you start is you book a consultation. It's a free call for us to talk, to connect so that we know what your goals will be for coaching and what will be the path that I can help you with to get there. And if you want to do that, work with me.
So many of my clients find that the console itself is so valuable because they get a perspective that you can't get when you're in it. So console alone is an amazing experience and you can book that through my website kimnickel.com. The other way you can work with
me is to join the group program. Now listen, the next group program kicks off in February. I know right now it is still what, November, December. But you want to get on the wait list for that so that you know as soon as it opens up, there are only going to be 10 seats in the next group. And I'm going to offer those first to my alumni to the students that attended last year or this year.
So if you want to get one of those seats to the group program, we meet three times a month for three months. You want to get on the wait list so that you know when you can join and and claim a spot. Do that on my website,
alsokimnickel.com. Go to the new manager page and the real great bonus part as I mentioned before is when you join the wait list for the group program you are going to get access to my workshop on self advocacy, specifically how to ask your work for professional development. And some of my students have used those same techniques to have their work pay for them to get coached by me, both one-on-one coaching as well as the group program.
This is one of those things where, you know, I've seen so many people they feel really uncomfortable asking, Like for so many reasons. It can feel really uncomfortable
to ask for something. But if your work has the budget and if it will benefit them for you to get coaching or for you to be in this group program so that you can, you know, be more effective at work and be less stressed and less likely to burn out, I mean, that's a good thing and they may have the money for it. Like there may be like division.
There's like a pile of money that your work has specifically for learning and development so that you are better at what you do. But the only way you can access that is if you ask for it. Like the money will not know to jump out of the budget. And like, pay for your learning, you have to initiate that conversation, and for so many people it's so uncomfortable. But I'm telling you, there are so many benefits to that. So please sign up to join my
wait list. I want you to get access to that video to gain more confidence in your ability to ask for things on your own behalf that your work might be delighted to pay for and that way too. Sometimes even if your work is not, you know you can always pay for it yourself, right? But if your work is willing to do it, then help them. Like help them, help you to help them. It's a virtuous cycle, which is one of the reasons I love what I do. So that is what I wanted to
offer you today. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you have a really great week. I will talk to you next time. When you're more effective at work, you're happier in your life, and when you're happier in your life, you're more effective at work. I can help. Go to my website, kimnickel.com and sign up for a coaching consult. It can get better.