Welcome to the new manager podcast. I'm your host, Kim nickel. Hi, welcome back. Last week I was talking about feedback and then I taught a workshop on it and I have to tell you it was so much fun because I feel like feedback is one of these topics at work that nobody gets training on like everyone experiences it first by being on the receiving end of it and then at some point as part of your job. It becomes necessary to give other people a feedback and so we all learn just on the Fly by
being alive. And when we get together and talk about what is difficult, what is working. There's a surprising amount of common ground, but also so many insights, it is such a cool thing to talk about. And one thing that came up was the At that the feedback conversation really is a micro climate or you can think of it as a specific venue for other kinds of things to happen. So it's where trust happens. It's where leadership happens. It's where what is this relationship really about
happens? There is so much that can happen within a feedback conversation and for you too. As the person who's giving feedback. It's also a call to reflect upon and develop your own communication skills as well as your own self awareness skills. So I have been feeling really excited about feedback and I had a few other ideas that came out through the conversation with my students in the workshop that I wanted to share with you. Oh, and one other thing, what was really cool too?
Is that not everyone? In my workshop has direct reports and this is also true of my listeners. So, and and my students, not everyone has a direct report because being a manager Moving into this manager skill. Set doesn't always happen when you have direct reports. There is so much of managing by influence that happens in the workplace. You might be someone who manages volunteers, who is a coordinator of volunteers, you might be someone who's responsible for handling the intern summer
program. You might be a product manager or an office manager, or you might just need to manage. Judge your boss. The idea of managing up is a thing and it is a way of managing people even if that's not a part of your title. For most of us managing people is something that we face all the time whether or not we think of it that way. So a couple other ideas to share with you about feedback. Number one, ask yourself, How do
you feel about feedback? Both giving it to others and also receiving it. This was a really interesting question in our workshop with everyone is that giving it receiving, it everyone has had different experience of it. Some of it positive, some of it, very uncomfortable, but get really clear for yourself about how you feel about it because this will help to guide you in where you need to grow.
And especially around things you've been avoiding or things that make you uncomfortable, which is a normal human thing. So it's totally fine. Especially because feedback is so much of a relationship and communication based skill. And a lot of people like that is not the thing. They're good at, it's not bad, it's just true.
So, I know people and they are really good at their core thing, you know, it's designed its Gramming its sales, it's whatever their core thing is, they're so good at that, but the moment they then have this, this responsibility of giving feedback they're a little bit out of their depth of Genius. They're a little bit uncertain about how to do that.
Well and also because, you know, it does not, it is not fun to feel incompetent at something, especially if you are known for being highly competent, at the thing, you're really good at I just want to acknowledge that, that the more you can become aware of, where do you feel uncomfortable about feedback, whether you're giving it to somebody or even if you're receiving it? Take a moment to reflect on this maybe Journal about it or have a conversation with someone.
You trust just to clarify in your own mind. Like what is your current relationship to feedback? Like that will give you some clues about where you'll need to work in order to develop the skill. Okay? Number two, I think in the last episode, we talked about no brutal honesty and no sugar coating, right? Neither of Those are helpful. We don't need brutality. We don't need to cover our message. With all of these nice things to try to control how the other person will feel.
And I wanted to add one more thing to that list, which is no sandwiches. And this is a reference, of course, to the feedback sandwich, which goes like this first. I'll tell you something good. Second, I'll tell you something bad. And third, I'll tell you something good again or sometimes the people feel it as a compliment criticism compliment. Hey, I wanted to tell you a
really good job on that project. Now there are a few things that you need to change but overall you're doing a really great job. Now on the surface, this framework is not a bad thing and there will be times when it can be useful and part of the Idea. Is that we know that the human brain is really uncomfortable with anything that feels like a threat. So when we're offering a corrective feedback or feed that that might be perceived as a criticism, Rosa threat, we want
to give the brain. Something a little bit more inviting something, that'll keep it relaxed and feeling good. So, we offer, positive feedback first but what becomes problematic if you have been on the receiving end of these, Feedback sandwiches. Then, you know that after a while it just feels like a routine, it doesn't feel genuine. And what my students have told me and I've experienced this too, is that it's like, you can
see it coming. And at this thought comes into the head of, oh, you're only telling me this nice thing in order to tell me what you really mean, which is a mean thing. Like you're really just cloaking a criticism like with this compliment it almost becomes like sugar coating again. And what happens then is that trust gets undermined and people aren't receptive, and that just becomes kind of this theater that we go through, in an attempt to give helpful
feedback. So I find that if you over rely on this sandwich approach, everything that you offer that's positive gets discounted people don't fully believe it. And they will sort of brace believing like okay here comes this negative feedback and they immediately start to get guarded
and kind of withdraw. So be aware that this can happen and be selective about when you use this, sometimes it's useful, but not always much like anything and part of growing as a person and as a leader, is beginning to develop that discernment. When does this approach? Or when does this a tool become helpful? And when is it not? So if you use the sandwich, a lot, don't worry about it. You're not a bad person.
A lot of people teach this as the way to do it, but consider alternatives will talk about some of those, a bit later, but just put the sandwich down. Okay, now, another question to ask yourself, what do you want to be different because of this feedback? What do you want to be different? What do you want to change?
Because you are giving this feedback and this one is important because it also gets to like what is the big picture what is it that that you are hoping will be different because you tell them whatever you're going to tell them sometimes when you ask that it will help you to clarify. What is it that we really need to talk about here. What is it? That really matters? Be aware. What is it that you want to be?
Different because of this and the more you can get clear on what the behavior is like what is the thing that they do that you would like to be different that can also be so helpful in thinking through what is the conversation you want to have? Because asking someone to change a behavior is really different than asking someone to be a different person.
And sometimes there will be personality conflict or friction, but if you're giving someone feedback because you're hoping to change who they are being that, Does not always work. So well, and as I'm saying this, there's one example, I think I can offer you. One of my students was talking with me about someone, they were having a personality conflict with and they were giving them feedback and there was personality and attitude on the other side, this the my client said yeah.
This this person is such a, he's so he's such a complainer, he complains a lot. He has this really bad attitude, he does his job well but he tends to Complain a lot and just has this really you know, a bad attitude. I just can't get with this guy. and I said, well, I'm curious has this always been true or is this new and she says, oh, that's always been true. Just really bad attitude but the clients love him, he does a great job. I thought that's very interesting.
So what is it that you would want to change about his behavior? And she thought about it and we talked through it and she was able to identify something very specific. And I said I you know, I have an idea that I want to offer and it's the possibility that right now. Everyone's personality is getting a bit Amplified. So the people who bothered you before might bother you even more.
Because number one, you know, we're all a little bit more sensitive or we're all a little bit more impatient or we'll all, we're just all a little bit. War. And also he's also going through whatever is happening in his life. So, whatever his personality is on a regular day. There's a good chance that that might get Amplified now and she started laughing. She said that is completely true. It's like I can totally see that.
And so the idea then is, you know, we don't need to go into a feedback conversation, feeling extra extra frustrated because this person is just annoying with their Tude and the way they complain about things, you know, you can give feedback and have a really productive work relationship with someone without needing to be their friend and without needing them to, like you. And what's amazing is that when we give ourselves that perspective, it actually creates
a lot more relaxation. It's like, oh yes, this is this person. They complain a lot. Maybe complaining is their favorite thing. How nice that they have so many things to complain about, okay, They do a great job with the clients and here's just one thing that I want them to know because if they change, that things will be better with the clients great and done. And then you can let go of feeling.
Like if only this person was different than we could be friends and get along, it's actually okay to not have to get along with everybody. Of course, as a person like myself were, Harmony is really important and I care a lot about people getting along, you know, I tend to put effort towards that. But it's not required.
You can still be really effective and your team can be high-performing and people can enjoy their experience of working, even if you're not all best friends and I actually believe that's really healthy like it's okay to not be best friends with everybody. You work with what I think
matters more is respect. Appreciation and value people want to feel respected, people want their work and their contribution to be appreciated and people want to feel valued for who they are and for what they bring. So Ask yourself, you know, what do you want to be different? Because of this feedback? Because of this conversation? Because that can help get a little perspective on what is the conversation you actually need to have?
and the last thing, the fourth thing I want to share with you in this episode around feedback is this idea of be Discerning rather than comprehensive And the question you want to ask is what is useful here? And sometimes what I've seen with my students who are new managers is because they want to do a really thorough job of giving feedback to someone. They will give a very comprehensive detailed list of all the things that could be different.
Here are all of the things that you could do differently, and I think it would make an improvement. And the downside is that the way Is received by the other person. Can be really sort of trust breaking, because it can feel like a long list of nitpicking really small things that don't necessarily matter and that might simply be your preference, not actually a deeply useful piece of feedback.
This also relates to the question of what is it that you want to be different because of this Feedback. When you know what that is you can be Discerning and choose what is the feedback I want to communicate to this person that will make the most important change and this also becomes important because people's like our brains can focus on one
thing at a time. So for example if you are my manager and you gave me 10 things that you thought I could be doing differently then it would be hard to figure out which of those two Should I start with? I feel very overwhelmed which one is the most important. How do they all relate together? The brain doesn't necessarily know where to go and part of the role of giving feedback especially if you're in a manager relationship is you want to be thoughtful in. What is the thing to focus on
first? And then let the other ones. Wait, right? Like, you don't have to be comprehensive but let people know help to prioritize what to work on First and why? Right? So different ways of thinking about that will also affect the way that you communicate the way that this person can receive
your feedback. And also, I mean, always coming from this, this place of service like the attitude, of the reason I'm giving you this feedback is because I see something that can change, that will be better for you and for us, and for the team and for the client, like it's never coming from this place. Serve you are inadequate. That is one of the most painful judgments that we can face and it's often one that we carry.
Anyways, like if you've ever had a little voice of self-doubt in the back of your head or if you've ever felt like, oh my gosh, people think I'm really amazing. But what if I'm not or if you feel like, wow, everyone I work with is so incredible and I secretly feel like I don't even know if I deserve to be here. You Don't know all of the different little quiet, undermining, thoughts, that can
be happening in people's heads. So, when we are giving feedback part of what also becomes useful is this way of communicating, hey, as a team like we together, I want to see you succeed. I want to see you do. Well, I'm here to help you. I'm going to give you feedback that will be most useful because That's the kind of person and that's the kind of leader that I want to be. I don't need to weigh you down or burden you with thousand things of various importance.
So I get a little bit excited, I believe that relationships, make work better or worse, preferably better. But we've all probably been in situations where the lack of trust or the lack of feedback has really gotten in the way of being able to work well together to enjoy the people and the relationships in the work that we do. And just to do the best that we can. So I hope this has been helpful for you. I have some additional workshops coming up this summer and going
forward. So go to my website and check them out. If you want to join, it would be amazing to have you. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening. Take care. Do you want personal confidential help with your situation at work? I offer one-on-one coaching and can help you overcome challenges reach your goals and become a more effective leader to schedule a consult.
Go to my website, Kim nickel.com coaching and we'll schedule time to talk about what's going on with you and how I can help talk to you soon.