Welcome to the New Manager Podcast. I'm your host, Kim Nichol. Hello and welcome. I'm glad you're here and I hope you're doing well. One thing I've been thinking a lot about is how you learn and how to make learning feel natural, so that you're more likely to then apply new ideas and new concepts into your
actual life and your workplace. And it occurred to me that I think one of the reasons why my approach has been so effective with my clients and my students is because my perspective is really grounded in the earliest teaching that I was doing years ago in a studio, 10 to 12 years ago, I started teaching this functional fitness class. And it was no equipment.
It was just body weight. And So what I was teaching was helping people learn how to move more effectively in their physical bodies and creating a little bit more of this internal awareness of, you know, like, like how how it feels to be in your body so you could sense where your weight was, were you balanced. So you could really work with your different muscles as you were going through these movements in a way that started to let it feel easy for you.
And because of teaching these public classes. And so I would have lots of different people come to class with lots of different bodies. So sometimes at the beginning of class someone would tell me, oh, I'm recovering from an injury or I, you know, I had surgery three months ago and my range of motion is still really limited. Or somebody might come in and say been training for a marathon. And so this part of my body is really strong, but this other part of my body maybe not so much.
And I had people of different ages and different genders and, you know, kind of different different stages of their relationship to their physical body, their physical health. So I had to learn how do I teach these concepts in a way that will be effective and connect with a variety of people. And, you know, and how do I do that very quickly and very
efficiently. And you know, the point of learning these movements and of training the body was not to be just good at executing the movements.
I mean, the entire point especially of functional fitness and functional movement is you are developing more capacity in your body so that when you leave the studio and you're just living your life, you have available greater range of motion, more strength and everything just works because you've built up this internal capacity and an awareness of how
to use your body. So if you go to pick up a, you know, a heavy box of books or groceries, you're going to move your body in a way that is safe and supports you and lets you access your strength. Like, your body's just going to know how to do that because of the way we've been practicing it in the studio. And after that class, I then also started teaching yoga, and I became a yoga teacher, and it
was really similar. This idea of I want to guide you through an experience in the studio and on the mat that awakens a little more awareness of your own interior. So it's not just about the shapes you're making in a physical sense, but the awareness and intention that you're bringing to that experience. So that when you leave the studio and the yoga mat is rolled up in the corner, you're actually bringing this awareness and these principles to life as you're moving through the day.
And then I was, I was teaching them mindfulness, which was such a natural extension of both physical practice and these interior practices. Mindfulness is a quality of attention, and so you can do anything, mindfully or not, you know. You can be mindful when you are brushing your teeth, or you can just be, you know, like regular distracted. You can be mindful when you are attending a meeting with your boss.
Or you can be, you know, like stressed out and performative and distracted, like whatever you're doing, You can do it with a quality of attention that is a bit more present and curious and kind. That's what mindfulness is all
about. And so then when I started teaching meditation and mindfulness, and I was teaching that in the class, but also being brought to different companies, different organizations, and teaching mindfulness in corporate settings, again, the point of it is not to teach you how to be a really good meditator or how to be, you know, like a level a mindfulness practitioner.
The point is, can we develop some capacities in a very intentional way so that when you are simply being a human, living your life, you have easy and ready access to these new ways of being? So that when you're going through the day, you're not thinking, OK, now it's time to be mindful. And I will bring attention to my breath and I will observe the, you know, the sky and the
clouds. It's not that formal, but it's this really kind of gentle, organic change where you simply begin to inhabit and experience your life a little bit differently because of how you are becoming changed through the specific work that you do in the class setting. So that's that's always informed my approach to how I teach and coach when it comes to career and leadership and manager development. And it directly applies to this
specific topic. I wanted to share with you the topic today, it's very, very specific. I want to speak for a moment about communication tips for conflict averse people. Now, the reason I shared all of that background about, you know, how I teach and why I teach.
And the way I think about this is because if you are a person who is conflict averse, if you tend to feel an anxiety spike when there's the sense or perception or possibility of some kind of conflict or some kind of combative moment, and you kind of feel yourself get anxious and shrink or shut down or withdraw or go into silence. If that's just something that tends to happen very quickly, then what I've found helps is what I'm going to share with you in a moment.
And also the reason why it helps is because when I coach and teach my clients this, especially when we're working one-on-one or in this small group, I'm able to work with you in a way that lets you access the concept in a way that feels really natural and that feels like you. So it doesn't feel like, OK, now there's a conflict that might
happen. Let me pull out this, you know, diagram or this sheet of paper or let me refer back to this book to remember the academic application of this principle because that's not how we work in real life. Like my goal is to help you develop awareness of these capacities, to build your capacity so it feels really available and it feels natural and you just are like, oh, I I now just know how to do this. It's just in me because of now the way I'm seeing and thinking and feeling.
So for you, when you are feeling that conflict aversion, and this is also important, if you have people on your team or maybe it's your boss or maybe it's someone that you work with and you have this sense that they might be like very conflict averse because it's really difficult to pin them down and have a direct conversation. Or you sense that when you are being direct you kind of feel them shrinking or getting really, really uncomfortable and it it just becomes this this
difficult thing. So this message is also for you and I'll explain why in a moment. So first, when you are conflict averse, there's often a fear that things will escalate and become intense and there will either be a sense of like pressure or something will go wrong or something bad will happen. And it it's not even necessarily like a super logical thought, right? It's it's just this vague sense of if this escalates, something bad will happen.
The other time it kind of can come up is if you want to share something in a meeting but you feel like you need to have a perfect answer. You're afraid of being wrong or you feel like I can't really speak up until my idea is really watertight and really solid and unassailable. And so you'll kind of hold back and really delay participating because of this fear of being seen as wrong or being seen as,
like, in some bad light. Because your idea or the thing that you have to say is somehow not perfect or is somehow open to attack. Like, that's kind of the feeling that is happening underneath. And so when you're in that situation and there's somebody saying something and you have something else like you're not sure that you're totally on board with that, you might not say, hey, I disagree with that because that might feel really direct. It might feel very confronting, right?
If you tell someone, hey, I disagree, then you're kind of setting yourself up in opposition to them. And there's a chance that they will then want to argue with you about why their idea or perspective is correct and why yours is wrong. And now we're not even, you know, talking about the idea. And now we're kind of locked in this power dynamic of who is right and who is wrong. And it can get a little bit sideways pretty quickly.
And so you might not say, I disagree, you know, and to be clear, sometimes that is a great way to respond, right? Just be really direct, really relaxed, really straightforward. I I disagree with that. But when you are very conflict averse, if you are working with people who are conflict averse, that's going to be a really hard thing to say. There's going to be a lot of fear and resistance and reluctance that you'll need to overcome. So as an alternative, I have a couple ideas.
One is the strategy of yes and yes, and is something you might have heard about before. It's a really popular concept, and it comes from the world of improv theater. So improvisation is this idea that whatever is happening in the scene, you're just going to go with it. You're going to say yes. And so if you're improving a scene and someone walks in and you say, why were you late? I was, you know, expecting you an hour ago. The person in the scene is not going to argue with you about it
or correct you. Instead, they're going to say yes. I was planning to be here an hour ago, but I got waylaid by a rogue rhinoceros. The zoo had a security breach and the rhinoceros is and the giraffes and the, you know, crocodiles got loose and I had to round them. OK, so if you're in in improv, the idea of yes and is that there's never a need to like, correct or challenge anything. Instead, we want to contribute.
We want to add to it. So in your work situation, what that sounds like is somebody shares an idea or they say something and you can say okay, yes and and then you simply add to it. So yes. And we might also consider XY&Z or yes. And I can see, you know, a certain, a certain way that that might not always work out, right. So rather than say, I think that's a terrible idea, I disagree. You might say okay, yes.
And I can see some ways that that might not always, that might not always work out for us. Or I can see some some other ways that that we could do things differently. So that's the first one is yes. And you're not spending any time going against the thing you're not correcting. You're not explaining why you disagree with that point. Instead, you're contributing your idea, your perspective by simly saying yes. And the other part of that is that it tends to help create a
feeling of connection. We want to be really mindful that when we're communicating, it's not just about the words we use, it's also about the effect that those words have. And if our intention is to create more connection, to foster more safety, a sense of, hey, I am with you, it's okay to have lots of different ideas then the yes and is a wonderful way to do that. The disagreement or the no. But or I, you know, I think you're wrong about that.
All of a sudden it sets us up in this dynamic of opposition where things can start to feel like conflict or attack or now we have to go to battle about the rightness or the wrongness of the thing, which isn't necessarily the conversation or the relationship that we want to be in. So that's your first option is the idea of yes. And my second idea for you is you get to say things like I see it differently. I love this one. It's so simple. I see it differently or I see
things differently. Because now what you're really talking about is your perspective. And what's so cool is you can have 10 people in a room all discussing a topic, and each person could have a different perspective and they could all have something valuable to offer. Every perspective can be valuable, even when it's different. Sometimes the reason perspective is valuable is because it's different is because it's not in full agreement, but instead is
illuminating. A different aspect is contributing at like a different, you know, kind of information or or knowledge, a different way of seeing things. And so when you say I see it differently, it allows you to offer your perspective without carrying a message of you're wrong or you have a bad idea, right. As humans, we get so defensive so quickly. Whenever we sense that somebody is saying you're wrong or you have a bad idea or your approach is not, is not good, it feels
like, you know, disrespect. It feels like not being seen. It feels like being made small. And we can kind of skip all of that by simply taking this approach. If I have something I want to add, I have a perspective I want to add. I see things differently. I see it differently. Let me share how I see things because this could be interesting. It could be valuable, right? And the nice thing too is that we're also not getting into the place of right. Like I'm right. Listen to me.
It's more like I have a perspective and it will be valuable and I want to offer this value to the conversation or to the group. There's not a lot of attachment in it. So similar to that, that I see it differently. This additional way of saying it, the language I want to offer you is I have another perspective or I want to offer a different perspective. I have another perspective because again, it's about the
way that you see things. And this is also so valuable, especially when you are not the person who has 100% perfect information, which is pretty much always, but especially when you rise in leadership. Part of your job is actually to not know everything, but to surround yourself with people of different expertise. And part of your job is to hear the perspectives of others. So you can weigh kind of the the aggregate of what does it all mean.
So the sales team has one perspective, the engineering team has a different perspective, the design team has another perspective, the customer service team has a
different perspective. And when you are in that leadership role, part of your job is to hear what are all of these different perspectives, especially when they're not the same because there are things that will you know you'll start to make decisions about and things you'll start to understand differently when you're taking that position. So having different perspectives becomes important and becomes
valuable. And so by using that language of I have another perspective to offer that can be a way of contributing your thoughts without feeling like it has to be perfect or it has to be better than everyone else's. It starts to get you out of the comparison and the stress and the anxiety of is this good enough? And instead you're simply kind of acknowledging like there's something I'm seeing. I have another perspective. I want to offer it to the room now when you are facilitating a
meeting. OK, so this was the situation where let's say that you wanted to share an idea. This is what you do, right? Yes. And I see it differently. I have another perspective, but there will also be times when you are in a meeting and you notice there might be some voices that tend to dominate the conversation and you might want to hear what other people think. You might be curious about the quiet voices.
And if you're thinking about how do I create more space for the folks who have been a little bit reserved and how do I do that without putting someone directly on the spot? Like saying, hey, you, you've been really quiet, what do you think? Right. Like, not necessarily that effective. Like that person might just say what? No. Like go to somebody else. I passed. So how can you do that? Here's a thought that I want to offer. You can simply ask the room. Are there any other perspectives
that we should consider? Does anyone see things differently that you know we haven't heard from yet? Is there a way of looking at this that we haven't discussed yet? By asking for people's perspectives, by asking for how others see this, you can create the space to make it easier for other voices to feel invited. And so when you think of yourself as a facilitator, and I know I've talked about this in in a prior episode, but sometimes the job of a manager, I like to think of this as your
job is to facilitate things. Your job is to make it easier for your team to do their work. Your job is to make it easier for you know the the goals to be met by the way that you manage and work with people. Like your job is to make your boss's life easier. Sometimes we wear the facilitator hat, so one of the ways you can facilitate the participation of some quieter voices is to simply ask for additional perspectives. Is there a way that we could be looking at this that we haven't yet?
And this is also kind of how we tap into the brilliance of different people, different perspectives, by simply asking. And it will also help invite the, you know, the quiet folks to speak up when the folks who feel really, really excited about their ideas, right, have been talking for a while. It gives a little bit of a shift in that dynamic. And it's really, really subtle, but it can be so effective and it can feel so natural. Not like, OK, now I'm going to
do this technique. Like, it's really subtle, but it can be super effective. So that's what I wanted you to think about. You know, as a manager, you're a human. And so there are times when you might feel a little uncertain of how to participate and contribute and your self doubt might flare up and you might wonder, like, do I even have anything of value to add?
Remember, you always have perspective, and your perspective is valuable, maybe even in ways that you don't understand because sometimes we we discount our own perspective because it seems obvious. So this is something you can think about, right? The yes, and I see it differently. I have another perspective I
want to add. And then when you are in the role of facilitating conversation or leading a meeting, you can use these same language frameworks to invite an even richer conversation and to invite participation of folks who might be a little bit more reserved or a little more hesitant. The nice thing too with this approach is it can also be effective when it's not your meeting. So sometimes when you're not the lead, it can feel a little uncomfortable.
Like, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I found that this is an approach that can be used in lots of situations. Even if you're not the one who is leading the meeting, you can always kind of find a moment, well, in the conversation where you say, you know, I'm really curious to know, are there other perspectives we haven't considered that we should be talking about while we're on this topic?
I'm wondering if anyone else has a perspective or if if they're seeing things maybe in a slightly different way that might add to our conversation today. Really subtle, but it can be so effective. So that is what I wanted to offer to you today.
If you want to come work with me, I'm taking new clients, go to the show notes, book a consult so we can talk about what's going on, what your goals are and what it looks like for us to work together to help you create the changes that you're looking for in your career, your work, it it all. We'll talk about all of it. So that's in the show notes. Go there. If you want to know more about the next time I offer the group program, go to my website,
kimnichol.com. Go to the new managers page and you'll find a little more information about that and get on my mailing list so that you know the next time it is offered and you can join. Thanks so much for listening. I'll see you next time. When you're more effective at work, you're happier in your life, and when you're happier in your life, you're more effective at work. I can help. Go to my website, kimnicol.com and sign up for a coaching consult. It can get better.