When you're a smooth, calm, collected negotiator, when you can self-regulate and you can use silence as a weapon, you can start to hold the power and hold the room. And so even when that person's insulting you, trying to make you triggered, trying to get you, trying to goad you into letting go and missing the mark, you're able to really slow down and change your tone and craft. that story in a way that just moves the needle and changes the whole game. you Thanks for tuning in today.
And I'm not going to give a big intro to this guy because as we have a conversation for what I hope to be a good hour, hour and 15 minutes, he's going to give us introduction every moment of this conversation. So um you'll hear the, the accent from different parts of the world, or maybe you're in a different part of the world. And I have an accent.
However, we are fortunate to have Tim Castle on today and you're sitting in a hotel somewhere in the world, which happens to be Dubai on your way to Portugal for an event. We are talking to someone that is extremely capable, that's learned how to stack some abilities and negotiated his self into a one heck of a life now living in Singapore. So we talked for a few minutes where we started. I just love Tim's motto and believe it's possible.
And wow, we could take this conversation all sorts of ways. So Tim, welcome. Mark, I appreciate it. What an intro. What an intro. oh can be a lot better. just excited about today because it makes me smile on some days when I'm sitting across from anyone and they believe that almost anything that they put their mind to, they're capable of accomplishing. So your motto is believe it's possible. Where the heck did that come from? Yeah, it's a good point.
think it came from a moment, a decision in life where I had to back myself and I had to believe it was possible. um Basically, had gone to university, it didn't work out. I dropped out, I'd gone on a ski season, I'd taken a gap year, I'd done the thing where you go to Australia and you go up the East Coast, it was awesome. Then to the behest of my parents, I'd gone and applied to university and I'd done it. I'd completed the first year and I'd got good grades. It was all going amazingly.
And then I decided to go to a summer camp in America. And coming from England, that's like the classic kind of like, I don't know, American pie was out at the time. It's that kind of feeling. And you just go and it was, it was beyond my wildest dreams. I was free in America, in the mountains of Pennsylvania as a mountain bike instructor. And I think even then, I just didn't realize the scale and the size of what traveling in America was like. And it was just right in front of me.
So I went for it and I took a year out again. So second year out, told my parents, hey, not coming back. Gonna stay in America. Gonna go do some snowboarding. It's gonna be fine. Gonna be awesome. Like this is what I wanna do my life. Then a year later, I came back to England thinking I would go into the second year of this psychology degree that I was doing. Cause I was always interested in people, human behavior, like why people do what they do.
Like that was always like something that I was drawn to, the passion, the human side of it, the connection. And so I went back to university. It was in Newcastle. So was Northumbria University, absolutely freezing, but I loved it. The people up there are so much fun and it was a great, great experience. But unfortunately in me taking a year out, I was kind of coming back to a situation I didn't recognize. I knew none of the people in my year. The university had changed.
Everyone had moved into different houses. And I wasn't really knowing who I was gonna live with or what was gonna go on. And I had changed, right? I'd been flying in and out of London to New York multiple times this last year. So I'd expanded my life and kind of realized that I needed to be in London. And so the bright lights of London were calling and I figured this all out. in about the first week of that university degree, starting in the second year, I'd signed up to a new house.
So I had a new tenancy agreement, had all my stuff with me and I decided like literally like two days in, this isn't going to work. I need to be in London. The challenge was in order to have any chance of being in a London university, I needed to first withdraw completely from this Northumbria university. So it was a massive gamble because what I'd done, I was saying, right, I want to go to Goldsmiths University, University of London, great London University. This is a creative university.
It's a great psychology course knowing that it had probably you have to get like three A's to go there and it's oversubscribed and it starts in two days and they don't know me from Adam. And I haven't even studied for like the last year. So I haven't got any application. You're supposed to go through this system in the UK called UCAS. and you're supposed to do it like a year in advance and it's all logged.
And so anyway, decided in my mind that this was what I was going to do and life in Newcastle was done. I needed to be in London. so started off, right? Hi landlord. I know I've just literally moved in, but I'm off to London. So I'm going to need to renegotiate this contract, get out of it, get you a new tenant and get this back on the market. So I did that. That was an easy negotiation. That was kind of like stage one. because you're fueled up.
That's like nothing compared to negotiating your way into university where they don't even know you. Then what I did was pack all my stuff up, rented a car, and while I was getting all this together and packing my stuff, I was calling Goldsmiths. And this was the first introduction to the believe it is possible motto that I had because the receptionists at the psychology department, they were almost like the gatekeepers.
And so at first they were like, Hey, sorry, really, really sorry, but like this course is oversubscribed by a lot of people. We don't have space for you. Plus you're not in our system. Plus you're not in the British university system. Plus like there's just none of the pieces we need to make this happen. And this was the key. I was like, okay, cool. I totally hear you. But what would I need? Let's just say hypothetically, what would I need to make this happen if I was to show up in two days?
And just that one question. got them imagining a new future and it got them a bit more bought into my story. And they were like, cool, okay, we need all your exam certificates. We need a reference letter from your tutor. We need you to resign from this current course that you're on. We need to know that we can take you. Like it went on and on and on. was a lot of documentation, none of which I had, because I'd just come back from like living in America and living the dream.
And literally, as I was driving down the motorway, I kept I kept in touch with the college, with the university goldsmiths and these receptionists, these gatekeepers, keeping them, hey guys, I'm coming. I've done it. I've moved out of my apartment now. I've got it rented out to someone else. I'm coming. It's goldsmiths or nothing. So they started becoming invested in the journey as I was investing in them and I was investing in their imagination. Right. I was feeding it.
And suddenly they were like, how can we make it happen for this guy? And they were like, well, you would need to speak to this person. I get on the phone and I call my old tutor and be like, explain this story. Like, I need you to write me an amazing reference letter. And there's a momentum to this. When you start believing it's possible, you start getting other people, you transfer that energy. They also start to believe it's possible.
And they do things that if you don't have that energy or that kind of belief to start with as a foundation, they're not going to do it. But if you're like, hey, I'm on the M1, I'm driving down, got all my stuff here, I've just moved back from America, need to get into college. It starts in two days. Could I swing by in an hour? I'm literally driving by your house. I just need a reference that is signed by you. And then you literally start to collect.
I'm driving down the whole of England, because Newcastle's right at the top of England. Can't really get much further all the way to London, which is a huge journey in and of itself, calling everybody all the way down, all the different stakeholders and getting these gatekeepers basically to become advocates and fans and then raving fans.
So by the time I got to Goldsmiths College at 8 a.m. the next day, everybody, mean everybody, I suppose it did not help that I had bleach blonde dreadlocks right down to my arms here. experience in America for couple years. I stood out. stood out. And they're like, who is this guy, Tim Castle, that's like trying to get into our cause and like, where's he come from? And so I rocked up as if I was going to start the course on the day in the auditorium.
And they don't, you know, I haven't got anything. haven't got any of the criteria. I don't have anywhere to live. have nothing. Walked into that auditorium, talked my way in and said, Hey, it's Tim Castle. I'm here. I'm the guy.
then literally from there, just basically through believing it was possible created what I wanted to happen, not in this way of desperation, definitely in a way of like, of burning the bridges, but not in this kind of desperate needy way in this way of almost like in flow and just knowing that it was going to happen because it was this or nothing. they could feel it.
Did you have to put together all the documentation or were you able to overcome some of those things because they were so bought into this idea? Did they let any of the things go that you were supposed to? I'm assuming they did some. Ah, 100 % because I didn't have any formal app. Like I was crafting an application without the actual app, like without the formal process, which is UCAS. And I can't remember what that stands for now, but it's university administrate.
Like there's a whole body that, that regulates all of this. And so I was not in the system. So I was making a makeshift system and saying, here's everything that you would have typically got. And can you add one more place to the course? Because I'm here. I'm not sure about those guys that were over subscribed. I'm right here. I'm early. I'm early. isn't it funny that you walked into those courses, whatever courses you had to take to obtain the psychology degree or get into the system.
But the funny thing is, that when you walked into a classroom, and sometimes the classrooms have 30, sometimes it's a seminar and they have 200. But when you walked in, no one asked for your identification. Don't know. So we put up these barriers and these boundaries that they may not even exist. Absolutely. If we let our mind control what we think is possible, none of it will start. You can literally start to program it the other way.
they talk about this in child psychology to do with the shark music. it's almost like you're walking down a path and you can see, imagining what's in front of you, but you can see this beautiful lake and it's tranquil and it's sunset and it's beautiful. And there's some jazz music playing and everything's looking amazing. Or you can walk down that path and see this beautiful lake, but there's a shark music playing and it's dead. It did it it. And everything changes.
And that's the same thing in your head, right? It's the story that you're playing in your head that is then dictating the actions you're able to take because you don't have the belief or you do have the belief. And then you start taking bigger, bolder actions. So with you being our negotiation guru, um if you do all the research from Tim Castle, it's like he's the top 30. I mean, listen, if you can get into a top 30 worldwide, if anything, I'll take it.
But that just means that you're at a place of understanding negotiation. What I've always said in life is, I'd love to say, tell me I'm wrong that all these 46 years, what I've been telling myself is, is that I'm negotiating at every moment. I'm sitting here negotiating with the conversation we're having. I'm gonna negotiate the next thing that I will even go into through a conversation. I'm always negotiating and so many people think that that's a negative.
It's like, no, I'm always negotiating for the outcome and the thing that I want to define the life that I have intended for myself. And is that wrong or right? That's definitely right. You are, you're negotiating the agenda. Yeah. Exactly. In every word and every line of this conversation, but in every interaction, you're not, that is a negotiation. And that's right.
the energy you bring to the room, whether you're smiling or not, the confidence, the way you hold a door open for someone, every moment of inflection in your voice. I'm always negotiating. all of it and therefore it's all a moment to practice. Yeah. Um, we'll jump around a little bit, but you said in the beginning that you wanted, you were always interested in psychology. And am I correct that you said I didn't write it down, but you were always wondering why people did things. Absolutely.
So have you figured out why? I think that's a great one. Yeah, no, I thought I would get a doctorate in psychology. I really did. I think people do things because they're so heavily influenced by the external events and they haven't built that internal radar, that internal sense of direction to know where they're going so that they can define, make decisions based on that. really, like, That's what it is all about. It's about, you able to self-regulate?
And I talk about self-regulation a lot because I think when we think about the mistakes that people take in negotiation or influence or persuasion, a lot of this happens when they're not able to self-regulate. If you're able to self-regulate, it means you can start choosing the behaviors that line with the goal that you want. But to take it back and answer your question, if you don't know the goal you want or the direction that you're headed, like how can you start?
to do any of that because the whole thing falls down. So it starts with what do you want? And that's what I believe that people haven't spent long enough. One, figuring that out, but two, flirting with that idea every single day, getting into that vision and making a step forward consistently to go get it. I think that's what influences human behavior because there's so much distraction out there that captures you, the Netflix. the TikToks, the Instagram, and it's so addictive.
And so what people are doing is they're programming themselves that way, but there's all this to go and get. Is it okay if the what we want evolves? Because that's how, I look back on my wife at 25, 21 years ago, I couldn't have defined this moment with me and you sitting here having this conversation today in the studio. So it's evolved. that's one question.
Whatever you answer though, I think what I found and if you can combine these things and put them together and have a conversation around it is that the most important thing is whatever direction I choose, just whatever I choose today, just do it really well. Do it really well because the person I'm going to become, the thing I'm going to learn, figure out if the thing I thought I wanted, if that's it, at least I'm going to finish that part of the journey.
I'm going to finish that marathon or that bike ride and you get to the end and you're like, Oh, do I want to do it again? Or no, I found this thing. Mark, I love it. That's it. You basically saying I have a standard for myself. I have a high standard for myself at all times. And I also am okay to take experiments. Like I'm not failing. I'm just creating experiments. And then from those experiments, I'm learning and then I'm going forward. And that's like success, right?
That's success right there. I do think your overarching goal changes because I think you grow. Right. And I think when you, in order to get to what you think your goal is, you need to go outside of your comfort zone and push yourself. And in that growth, you expand. in expanding, it's almost like you've gone up one mountain and then seen, hang on, there's another more attractive mountain, let's go for that. And then that's the growth piece, right?
So then of course it changes, but I think that's kind of how it's supposed to be. Yeah. What's your next growth piece? Because I want to get back into the book you've written. mean, you've already written five books now. It's like this thing you're putting out a book every week now. Stop, Tim. Just stop. But you already have five more in the hopper. um But like, what's your next thing?
Because I bet if we were in your actual physical space and around you for a few days, I bet the next thing you're working on, I bet you accomplish it, check it off, and you're moving on to these compounding things at greater levels. at such a pace, it doesn't draw out as long as it used to. I'm assuming that. You've got it exactly right. Yeah. the time it takes now it's compressed the cycles of not success, but like just getting to where you thought you needed to get to it's shortened.
for example, with the art of negotiation, that took me three years to write that first book. That was, I'd never written a book before. I didn't know I could, it, to me, it was almost like a proof to myself. that I, something I could be proud of it, something really hard to do that I was like, look, I love negotiation. I've, I've been in a, I was a negotiator for over a decade. I was doing it day in, day out, big, big deals, many deals a day.
And I was just living, was getting, I got the privilege to learn from some of the most world-class negotiators out there, day in, day out that yes, I'm in the world's top 30 now, which is quite funny to say where I started, but. Some of these people don't get recognized in the same way, right? Do you get what I mean?
Like there are really amazing negotiators, people that can read a room and skillfully deescalate conflict whilst balancing the needs and creating value and doing all of these things, getting what they want. And I got to learn that for over a decade. so really that writing a book was what I thought would be super hard and it was, it took me three years to finish this book. mean, not as long as it took me to finish my first degree, was five years and three different universities.
But look, we got there in the end. And now, yeah, I'll be writing a book and it will come out in six. I'll do the first manuscript and send it to the publisher within six months. Like that's the kind of for the first rough, like, hey, what do you think about this idea in this concept? massively shortened. Yeah, so what is that next thing? So I won't say five or 10 years down the road. So throughout the rest of 2025, what's the thing you're actively working on now?
Because I have some good questions about the book about the art of negotiation. What's the thing now? Like you're stopping in Dubai, you have a family in Singapore, you're going to Lisbon for a conference. Like what's that draw? What's happening for you now? What's going on?
Yeah, so I think for me right now, like I want to, and the next level for me is to set up a sort of an art of negotiation training facility or training school, because it's just come to a new level where online is fine and there's online courses that I've done for advanced negotiation school, fine. But in-person training is where it's at. Like that's where you can really move the needle when you sit down and you coach in a group setting. So that's probably the next thing to tackle.
For me, I also love to be in the game, right? So I usually take on either I'm the first person in the startup expanding it across the whole of a region. So that very first phase where you go from zero revenue dollars to your first million and then on to the first few million, that phase to me is like the adrenaline is pumping, it's game on, you're the underdog, which I absolutely love. You're coming into a new market, you're flying all around.
going and creating magic when everyone is telling you that there's no magic to be had. And to me, that does something to me every day where I'm like, I love to wake up, I wake up early, but like, I love to wake up and just go get it because I'm like, and it's people, it's people. I get to be around people, I get to see their eyes light up and they get to take their challenges and help them through that like a consultant. at the same time, create. a is super cool.
And so then you get to work with some of the smartest minds in the world on the coolest tech in AI and all these other bits that just the forefront of, I guess, the nexus of change that's happening right now, which is incredible. And we should all be very lucky to be alive right now, because it's just so cool what's happening right now with all of these technologies converging and all of these different, I guess, macro themes that are sort of going to change the face of the world.
So I get to do that. I get to write, I get to host a podcast and I get to have a beautiful family. I've got two sons, two boys and I get to, and I think that's another big core part of who I am is raising those boys to be men, to be courageous, to be brave, to be strong, but also to have that, that empathy and be able to, to negotiate in self. Zeremo, you mentioned you love being the underdog. There's what I know about um humans.
It's the whole art of what you're working on, but there's so many people that aren't comfortable being the underdog. It can go to self-confidence, know, the conversation you're having with yourself. It could go with the belief in yourself, but like what in your life made Tim comfortable being the underdog?
I well, I know when you start with not nothing, but you start at a different place to perhaps the people I'm now, I don't want to say competing with, but like I done things a bit differently, right? So I've had to get there through believing it's possible. I've had to see what I didn't want and then go make it happen, right? And I think. So I wouldn't say I'm an underdog as much anymore, but I do like putting myself in that position because that's where the growth is.
But the comfortability around it is the ability to be rejected and not take it personally. That's ultimately what it is. So once I got into university, I then did the degree and mad uh men was kind of on at the time, think, and it was, I wanna be in advertising and it was... &C, Sarchi and all of these different cool ad companies in London. it just seemed like that's a pretty cool, cool life. You get to use psychology to create ads to then go around and like tell stories to people. Right.
This is, this is epic. I didn't get into JWT, which was the ad agency that I wanted to go, but I got myself in the interview, which was pretty, pretty good considering everyone else was from Oxford and Cambridge. And I'm like sat in this room going. I'm not like this. I don't know if this is going to work and I don't know if you want me or whatever this. So, but the ability to be able to get myself into rooms and not feel, I didn't feel bad if I didn't get, was, I feel the opposite.
It's like, if you don't get in the room, it's never going to happen. But if you get in the room and you don't get it, it's like, you didn't really lose anything. literally is only going to go up, right? Because it's going to lead you onto the next thing. And you end up being able to create, opportunity. I got an offer to a job from that company anyway in the end. So it's like, I didn't take it. like, the point is, it's like, you just put yourself in there you have to see the world again.
As well. If it's a bit like if you go into a job interview, and you're worried that you won't get the job, that's one way to look at it. Or you go, well, I'm going to walk into this job interview. And it can only go one way. Rather than me not going in, which would mean I'm not going to get the job. This is me going into the room and then every chance I've got is going to increase because I can only go up. Like I'm going to increase my chances by going in here.
And I think that's what I, that's what I learned about taking those. uh If we had another hour beyond the hour we're gonna spend here I'd try to dig into the subconscious of you and that psychology degree on why you have such a competitive spirit because it's Yeah, uh you want the competition um Yeah, you want to prove to yourself it appears and it seems that To show people that you can you are capable.
You're good enough um And really deep down inside like you're better than them You're going to break them down. You're the one that's going to win. You do it with a smile on your face, but it's fierce inside of you.
It starts to be relentless, And you can have that relentless, there's a persistence there that there's, and I think people have that that they can tap into and they might not realize that they have that, but if they start tapping into it, gets, you start seeing who you really are and you start being able to get yourself into those rooms. You think you can teach that? Because see, you had it when you went to what you would call, we call college university.
When you went to university for a year and then came to America, there's already something inside of you that allowed you to make that decision that was willing to take the journey. Can we teach this? Because you had that at such a young age. Because the big question out there is, can it be taught or is it found? How bad do want it? Like, how bad do you want a new life? How bad do you want that dream of yours?
think that's what it's, cause like we said, your goals, your dreams, your vision, they might change as you grow. And so if that's going to change, how bad do you actually want it? Because that's where the hunger and the fire comes from. And I think when you're willing to go and do whatever it takes to get there, you start to see things very differently. um So instead of us having to spend 20 or 30 dollars to go on Amazon and buy the book, they've listened thus far, um give us the cliff notes.
If you were being introduced on a stage, I'm sure you probably have at least an hour session in Lisbon, you probably have two or three over a couple days, but maybe it's just one. But if they said you have three minutes, instead of power dating because you've already found your wife, you've got your kids, you had three minutes. Tim, convince us that this book is the one that's gonna change my life. I think the art of negotiation is the art of possibility. Right.
I think you as a person, you know, you want to achieve more. And so this book is going to help you unlock those doors is the keys to your bigger future. That that's where this book goes. It's about if you imagine, like you said, I'm negotiating every single day. Every single moment is negotiation. If you start to think like that, you start to walk a bit different. You start to have fun with it. I think going back to your earlier question, can we teach that? Can we teach that?
fire that get up and go. Well, yeah, you start to because in this book, it's going to make you put yourself in positions where you're going to be facing rejection daily. And by the end of this, you're going to be feeling totally fine about it. So do you want change? Are you someone that feels anxious and nervous about negotiations? Do you think that you can just wing it in a negotiation?
Because the thing is, like this is what made me start the book is that there's so many people out there that have these big opportunities. and they don't prepare for their negotiations or they don't know how to, or they just ask someone that they think is good at negotiation what they should do. And it's like getting a reference point from what that person doesn't know. It's just because you have experience doesn't mean you can execute on depression.
It doesn't mean that they can tell you what to do and you can go and just do it. You need to have the right psychology, the right mindset around it and understand where you're going. And so being able to pay or walk you through the fundamental building blocks. to get you that foundation in everyday negotiations, big and small, so that when they come, you get what you want every time. The question that you asked that receptionist when you called the psychology department at is it Goldsmith?
Is that what the? was Goldsmith College, yeah, University of London. um when you said, hey, what would it take? There's so many people that haven't been willing to ask the question. Right. It's and it's the question that that changed. If I had begged and tried to be like, look, please. It's like it would have just been phoned down. Sorry, this is not possible. Right. But that changed the whole situation. It changed it to how is it possible and what would I need?
And then I just went and executed on their plan. They told me what to do. So then they were suddenly brought in because I'm just doing what was their idea. um Do you think deeper with having this psychology degrees? It's not about a degree. There's something that pulled you to it. It's what you've learned through. um Is the question too big? What do you think all this is about and for? Life. What's your brain do with that?
I bet you're a guy that toils with that conversation and that question, I bet. For me, I believe that the life that you're supposed to live is the one that there's a person inside of you. It's almost like life's gonna try and chip away at you and take hits out of you. But actually, uh once you realize there's a perfect person inside of you, it's almost like self-love. It's almost like, hey, I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna deliver my best in every single occasion that I can.
And once you have that oneness with yourself, that acceptance with yourself, The limitlessness of what that creates, it's just freedom. And so then you can really start to play the game of life properly. And I think the quote I love the most is the one that says, if you change one person's life, like it's Ralph Waldo Emerson is saying, if you just impact one person's life in your life, that in itself would be success. So it's like saying. Do you believe that?
I do, I in my own mind, because I know that if I say that I do, then you're going to not stop at one, right? Yeah. That's the question. That's the question I had because you're impacting more than one. Oh, and that's the coolest thing though, because I didn't stop at one. because because you just takes one. And so you get your first one, you realize the amount that you have changed you can create in someone's life. Hey, thanks for tuning in.
If you like these types of conversations, be sure to follow the necessary entrepreneur on your favorite platform so you never miss out on future content. This is a good little junket off. We'll get back on here with what you believe about leadership and sales performance and how the art of negotiations driving those. But uh tell us what's happening in Dubai.
I know everybody in your world has been to Dubai, but me and most of the people in mine and little America here, most of us haven't been to Dubai and that's in UAE, correct? That's right. And President Trump is here in UAE right now today, actually. selling a big Boeing deal with Qatar Airways. The biggest deal ever in Boeing's history, more jets and more planes and more GE engines than anyone. So yeah. Yeah, Dubai is a hotspot right now for crypto and blockchain, m but also for AI.
Like you drive around here, all the advertisements are around how AI can help you in your business. It's like the future, basically. can see, and I'm not saying it is, but I'm just saying the way that they've structured this city for Dubai within the UAE is quite clever. And you can see the progress there, right? It's quite luxury in the sense that Yeah, there's a lot of supercars and a lot of fancy hotels and like the first Bugatti hotel and all this kind of stuff going on.
But then as well, the people are just so lovely. Like this, there's a lot of warmth here in terms of how you're treated. And I think it's a really cool city to experience. Does it feel like almost that the culture of that city is what you believe? Like they just believe anything's possible. Definitely, because they've seen it. They've seen this city rise out of the desert and in such a fast pace of time. I'd say that's similar to Singapore.
In a similar way, in the last 60 years, they've gone from a third world country to a first world country. They've seen, again, from living in more like huts and little towns to now huge skyscrapers and $8 billion marina-based sands with a boat and all this stuff going on and a big financial and data center. They really give credit to the president. He's not with us anymore. But it's as if that one guy and his vision for Singapore changed the entire mindset of that country.
Lee Kuan Yew, yeah, he absolutely did um in the sense that Singapore was quite a lawless place. Obviously, the English was there before and they were there for about 150 years before that. But it was quite a dangerous place to be because it was a trading port and you had everyone coming by on their boats and pirates and lots of opium and all this other stuff going on. Everything gambling was there. It was just a mecca of people.
It's quite dangerous in that you'd have gangs walking down the street with machetes. Lee Kuan Yew comes in, zero tolerance. From that day on, they implemented zero tolerance. They cleaned up all the gangs. They implemented a set of rules. They transitioned to language of English. uh Education became very important. And then he built the people from there and they followed. And it was just this rocket to success. um It's a great place. You should definitely visit Dubai and Singapore.
Um, one of the, uh, people that's built a great career inside one of the companies operate, he recently took a 20 day cruise throughout Asia and he spent his last four or five days with a terrible note snowstorm in the winter. He said, I'm not going back to that. So he stayed for an extra three or four or five days in Singapore and, he can't stop talking about it. Well, there you go. Yeah. oh Yeah, he said, that's amazing.
So if the foundation to what you've built and it unlocked you all the way back in the beginning of having that thing happen that had all the locks and they had thrown away the keys of negotiation, because you negotiated your way into being able to go to the University of London. If that's the foundation, where do we stack the pyramid for there where this can impact?
leadership and the level of success that leaders can have and how influential they can be and at the end of the day they can then impact sales performance by driving their sales leaders. um Where's this thing? Where's the negotiation and the understanding and the mastery and the art of it? Where's this go? There's unlimited potential here, right? This is something that doesn't matter what stage of life you're at, you can start to look at in depth, right?
Because the way you communicate, it's all about communication, right? It's why they tell you in couples therapy, like they don't tell you to just focus on like the things that you think. It's all about communication. They tell you to start listening to the person. I guarantee if you're having an argument with your partner, and it's getting heated. If you just said, hey, I'm not hearing you right now. What I'm going to do is I'm going to stop.
I'm going to focus on hearing you and what you're saying. And then I'm going to cross check. I'm going to say, Hey, did I get that right? And you're going to repeat back what they said and you're going to check every single time. And so you start to calibrate and make sure that you're on the same page. If you do that, the emotional tension and the resistance will come down and then you'll be able to actually start hearing them.
that's when you go to say like, I don't agree with some of this stuff or you don't understand my point, but that's okay. I'm going to focus on you for right now. And just that switch in you trying to understand them. So this is playing out in relationships, but it's also playing out in business. And because when we're in the business world, we're chasing all that validation and companies do this on purpose, right? And it's quite competitive.
And especially in sales, you want to be top of the sales leaderboard and you want to be out there with your name in every single. PR press release and it's just geared that way. And so everyone's chasing that validation. But when you can rock up and you're the calm one and you're able to hold your silence and everyone around you is panicking or chasing this external validation and thinking that the loudest is who gets everything. And you're able to just observe and retain your power.
And then when shit hits the fan and something goes wrong, That's when these people that have been running around doing all the politics, they don't know how to negotiate, influence and persuade. You, who's the calm one, carefully able to articulate a concrete plan is able to lead. That's where you start to amass power because people start looking to you because you've been able to be calm under pressure.
So I think there's so many ways that these skills are applicable, whether you're in the boardroom, whether you're a CEO, founder. especially founder CEOs at the exact level or whether you're just starting out in your career because negotiation is almost uh like a meta skill. It has a compounding effect to it. It's a multiplier. If you learn negotiation to an advanced level and it's not just tactics and strategies, it's how you show up in the world has a multiplying effect on your life.
And it's just, I love it. Isn't it very important it's circling back, isn't it so important that you have to know what you're working towards? 100 % I think that's the starting point, right? You need to sit down and know what it is exactly, specifically that you want. Because once you know that, you can start to prepare. Yeah. Because you knew that, I want to get into this university. yeah, was no doubt in my mind. Right.
So then every directive that you gave yourself and every action you took was going in that direction. And anytime someone wanted to deviate you off of it, you need to negotiate yourself back onto the line to make sure that's where you were going. It's as if a ship, say I have this destination, I plug it into the GPS or you're on a jet and that jet is on autopilot. And if it deviates from the course, you got to know where you're going.
So you just, so can redirect it and make the adjustment to get back on course. You just smiled. What'd you just smile about? No, no, am just, I'm agreeing because I think this this is, it's so important because other people will start to, again, negotiate on your behalf or negotiate you that you won't, you won't understand that they're actually telling you, hey, no, go to another university. I'll get you in, I'll make a call for you.
But if you're dead set on going to that university, because you know that's a red herring, right? That ain't going to happen. They're just pushing the problem of you to there. And once you do that and you start entertaining that idea, you've diluted your power. You've diluted everything that I'm telling you not to do. It's the fact that you're there going, hey, I'm budging. And that's really important because that'll put this whole thing.
I know we're talking about universities and getting into college, but this is a massive thing that plays out in the bigger deals when you're negotiating multimillion dollar deals, because people are going to rock up and they will be master manipulators and they will have tons of red herrings on the table that they know, hey, you want me to make a concession so that we can do a reciprocal? Okay, that's fine reciprocity. let's do it. I'm all good. I'm collaborative. I'll take these back.
These things, these are that I never wanted anyway. You'll think that you've got something and then you'll give something that you actually really needed because you didn't fully know what you wanted. And that's the point, right, Mark? Like people think that this is just about money, but there's so many parts. And if you're a salesperson, you need to know, is it a short term or long term game you're playing? What's more important? Is it revenue or profit? Is it pipeline? Is it qualified leads?
What is the most important? Is it new logos? Like where are you in that business cycle? Where is your business? And because that's dynamic, there's like loads of layers, right? And it's always changing. So you need to be strategic and that's why negotiate. This is negotiation and it's playing out in everyday life all the time. And you can be a master at it. Um, identify the finish line of the current thing you're working on, Identify that. uh Yeah. Um so you have a new book coming.
I love the title. I don't even care. It's gonna be a book. I don't even care to read it Tim Castle but it's the next one's the first domino. I'm like oh my gosh. Where's the first domino fall? But yeah, that's great. That's a great segue into it. So yeah, the first domino was something I do a lot of coaching with founders, CEOs, startups, as you can imagine.
And so one of the things that struck me when I started doing these, these for accelerators that have like 20 startups and maybe they're in property or health was that sometimes the founders are quite technically focused and they're very creative people. They've, they've coded this business or they've built this app or they've done this project or they've jumped out of one business and come in and they built their, their dream company.
And about two years in what's happened, Mark is they've gone out and they've tried to pitch it or they've tried to sell it or they try to get their first client and it hasn't worked. And now they're two years in and they're starting to panic. And at that exact moment is the moment that they will start listening to me. Before that, they'll think, no, that's okay. We've got some runway and we've got some cashflow. We've raised some friends and family around. Maybe we've got a smaller investment.
whatever it is, and they feel fine and they haven't got enough urgency behind them. They haven't gotten enough get up and go. What's the first domino that then they're willing to listen? Well, no, the first dominoes, so you've got all of these dominoes that need to fall in order to knock the first domino. The first domino is actually your first flagship client. The client that's going to change everything for you because then once you've done that, you've got that client.
You can prove business market fit, product fit. You can prove runway. It opens up so much. And that's what everyone's chasing. And especially when you're a founder and you've put everything on the line. You maybe mortgaged your house to go and do this business. Everybody is waiting for you to go pull this off. So it's a lot of pressure. And so the first domino that I talk about in the book is prospecting because I think that's the first thing.
When someone is writing a prospecting email and they are in that position, either they're a new sales manager that's gone into a business, they've taken a new job and that they may be 10 years into the business. but they have about 90 days to prove their worth, right? They've got to make an impact and they've got to make some revenue impact in 90 days. Let's be clear. Everyone will say, hey, you've got six months to ramp up. No, you haven't.
You've got about three weeks to start really hustling and landing some big meetings. And so what happens is it's the same thing as the entrepreneur that's about 40 years of age. They put everything on this, this bet. to back the company that they've just built and they need to go land their first flagship client. They're both in the same position. And they send out all these emails, reeking of desperation, filled with jargon, not able to get cut through and they sound like everybody else.
And then what they do is they hire and they outsource this part, which they don't need to do to somebody else, because they panic. So they're either doing a scatter gun approach where they're pinging every single person they know in these roles and they're just destroying any value that they could create. And so what we talk about is and this is in my book, The Momentum Sales Model, which just won silver at one of the big US book awards this year. So it's been a really good year so far.
um It's the nine before nine a.m. strategy and it's just it's teaching people to get in front of nine prospects either via text, by email or actually in front of them for coffee every single day before nine a.m. because if you start to have that rhythm, you've got nine qualified prospects coming in that you're going to follow up with. every three days until they talk to you, till they give you a meeting, right? And then this is what you should be doing.
When you're sending out these emails, there needs to be one clear ask. You need to put that ask in the second sentence so that that person who's time poor can actually understand what the heck you want from them, because you're coming at them blind and you want a meeting. That's all you're trying to get. So you don't need to sell them the earth, the world, all in that one email. You don't need to convince them. You just need to ask for the meeting and give them a reason why.
And that's It's the reason why about them and how you can help them and their wife and their business pretty much. Is that what it comes down to? Yeah, but it comes down to you, not in any of the ways that we've seen it on LinkedIn. non-desperation ways. Yeah, when you're desperate, right, you lose all leverage. I correct? Is that a proper statement? I think you destroy, it goes the other way, you're sabotaging. Yeah. This seems so simple to you now. Yeah, I mean, it's My simple, fun.
It's super fun. just who do we need to get in touch with? And then the joy of like knowing that you can help people. I think this is the part that people mistake with sales. It's that you're not emailing them to convince them to buy what you've got because it's going to make you commission. You're emailing them because you have a value to offer and you're doing them a disservice if you don't tell them about this product is going to change their business.
It's a disservice because you have that information. As long as you hold that and you know that you have value. which you do because you're working for a good company or you've built a good company, go with that in your heart and go out there and knock on that door. I mean, you should just be. Yeah, that's what I'd say is close, close deals, not doors, basically. Mm-hmm. If you had to here in your forties, I don't want this to be just some cliche and throw away questions.
I don't even, I don't even love to have those, but I'm, if you had to start all over today, if it all went away, no more speaking again, engagements on the calendar, no more revenue coming in, all the money goes away. And the only thing you have left is your family and the one or two friends that really is probably all you really need. Mm-hmm. What do you do? I still get to keep everything I've learned. percent.
then that's beauty because I think we're coming into a time now where anyone can take that, everything's going to become about your personal brand, right? And you are the enterprise, right? It's the enterprise of you. So it's not about needing something, because it's all going to go away. You could have a job and then the next day you're fired or let go. It's your personal brand. So you start there. You start with what you know. You have to realize that you have value inside you.
that can change someone else's life. And you just have to find the thing that you know in your heart you're supposed to share. And so I would start back there and go, hey, what do I know? Maybe it's that experience that you just talked to me about. Everything's just disappeared. That in itself is an experience that people are going to go through. Maybe I can help people go from zero to one because I'm just going to go do that.
And maybe I can build a community around that and take people with me on the journey and we can do it together. would also do this. I would also set up a company that takes kids. to Bali with one of their parents or two other parents, but usually one of their parents to Bali or a country that has a mountain. And we would do a retreat and I would teach those kids about self-worth and about courageousness and about being able to push through limitations.
And we would go up at 2 a.m. and we'd climb that mountain to sunrise and we would do an amazing retreat experience. That is in my heart, something that I know I'm gonna go do. Because if you start at that grassroots level and you give those kids that self-belief, it's going to change the trajectory of a whole generation of people.
So that's something I'd probably do if it all went away, because I know that that's doing what I said, skills in here that I can go teach, I can go change someone's life. I think that's in everyone, right? It's always knowing that your experience, the way that you say something can impact someone so much that they can change the whole trajectory of their life that they can transform.
I've seen people that... they were alcoholics and they've got sober and now they're training people how to get sober, right? So they've gone through that whole thing. It's like the experience of you, you're best equipped to help that person that was once you, right? And so it's beautiful. So we can all start again. We can all start to create value. And I think that's only gonna compound more and more because authenticity is key, especially in this world of AI and how fast that's going.
Alright, so we all have our the strings of our heart pulled by you wanting to take the kids and take them to the top of the mountain at 2 AM. Yep, but aren't there so many adults that need this too? Well, that's the cool thing because if the parent is coming, it's that who's actually training and would the parent come on the retreat or would they be too scared to come on the retreat, but would they come for their kid?
So am I creating a double experience because actually that mountain is really hard to climb. And when they do it with their kid, it's like a double bonding experience. So I think, I think there's, there's a huge amount of uh adults that need this, but Yeah, I've seen that just because you can put a retreat on for adults doesn't mean that they're able to come. But give it in that form, you give to both. and then they become a leader. It's the unknown. It's the unknown, right?
If they haven't done it before, it's the who else is going to be on the trip. What are you actually going to make me do? Do I do I have all the details? Are you going to surprise me? Am I good enough? Can I invest in myself? Do I love myself to actually put the money aside and say, I'm going to pay for this for me? Right. It's a bit like if you once you start going to really nice hotels or really nice holidays, dropping your standard again just becomes impossible.
And it should it should because then You essentially hold yourself to that level once you start deviating off that. And it's the same thing with self-love and self-care. If you're not willing to invest in yourself, then nothing's going to change. Yeah, once you know it's possible, can't unlearn that. I'm assuming you also are either flying business class or first class is what I'm assuming. It's not coach. But it's the same thing, right?
Because you go back into economy and then you're like, I can't I don't have to do this, I'm more capable. I know exactly how I can accomplish the thing that's more convenient, that's more comfortable, that gives me a better adventure. I know that, so why am I settling for less? Once you've proven it to yourself, you can't unlearn or unknow this. subconsciously shouldn't then put yourself in that position because subconsciously you're saying to yourself, m we're back here again.
I a tantrum if I ever have to ride coach now. I throw a tantrum inside. I'm like that four year old kid that's not getting what they want when they're at the store with the parent. Yeah, I do it inside. No one sees anymore, but I'm so mad about it. Yeah, it's the same thing that and I don't know how if we grew up similar, but um I grew up with a lot of love from a mom, but didn't have the financial understanding and the financial literacy. Those weren't things that my family understood.
So I had to when we were. We were poor on cash, but now I find myself, when I go to the beach, you all call it on holiday, we call it vacation. Yep. So we do it for a week. You Europeans do it for weeks. And so, but when I go to the beach now, I don't, I don't want to stay across the street from the beach. I want to stay in the house. on the beach that I get on my own private walkway over the dune to the sand. That's what I want. And I know I'm capable of it.
And since I'm capable of it, I know the experience is going to be better and it's going to make that week more enjoyable. It's important that I hold myself accountable that that's what's achieved every time. That's so true, Monk. And that's it because it comes back to that question. What's this all for? What's life all about? It's the memories, the experiences that you're creating. That's what it's all about.
And if we start in our minds saying, we'll do it later, or we'll do it that one time, if you don't ever touch the dream, you don't ever start living the dream, you've got to put yourself in the race, start playing the game properly and start going out and going, hey, I want to live like this from today. And that's it. There's no going back. And that's how you live a big life.
um Is there a negotiator that as you've traveled this journey and you became one of the gurus and know how to teach us how to change our lives and how to be better negotiators? Is there someone that maybe we don't even know they were a negotiator that you admire the most that you say, that's the negotiator I admire? And I think the people that really spring to mind for me probably aren't the most obvious ones in that negotiation list or that would be the strategic ones.
It's the people that have been able to create something from nothing, right? So they might have started by sleeping on people's couches and now they've ended up like a billionaire. People like Jesse Itzler that's out there and he's a living example of someone who's living, you he gets up, he eats fruit till noon and does all of these, like he does everything that he wants to do. And that's what people should be doing.
He's... going out there going, hey, I've got this company when he started and went into the Starbucks and bought all the muffins from the shop because he noticed that everyone was coming from the TEDx conference across to get coffee and muffins, right? And then he started pitching them when they wanted a muffin because the shop didn't have any muffins and landed his first client. It's like these people that can do that, type of stuff. I also love Will Godera. He wrote Unreasonable Hospitality.
He's, he's a really awesome guy, just the words he uses and the way he brings the story to life is just, if you haven't read that, absolutely. It's a book about hospitality, but it's really a book about connecting with people. again, there's that. There's even, if you think about like old school sales gurus like Og Mandino and like the greatest salesman in the world.
love that. And Paolo Coelho, like the alchemist, but there's all those other books that he wrote, which are all pretty like big adventures and there's challenges. And I like Bob Berg with the GoGiver. So Bob Berg going out and saying, well, this is all about giving more than you get and being able to create value and network. And so that you're able to kind of be that magnetic person in the room that everyone gravitates to without really trying. What's Tim's definition internally of negotiation?
Negotiation is collaboration, creativity and flexibility in my world. That's my definition because I'm not saying that it has to be a win-win deal because I don't really know if win-win is appropriate if the other side doesn't really know what they want. um But I think it's if we start to collaborate as negotiators, if you can have that much fun in a negotiation that you're actually collaborating and you're finding It should be that you should be in there.
You should be that confident person that's able to collaborate and find ways to do that. And that comes through creativity. And what, because you're able to be creative, it's because your brain isn't freezing up that lizard brain with all of the cortisol that stresses you out and makes you leave that list of all the things you wanted. And you don't know what you wanted because you can't think about it and you're stressed and you're like, I knew there was another thing I should have asked for.
was more shares or. more RSUs whatever it was, oh, I forgot, now I've accepted this deal. No, when you're a smooth, calm, collected negotiator, when you can self-regulate and you can use silence as a weapon, you can start to hold the power and hold the room. And so even when that person's insulting you, trying to make you triggered, trying to get you, trying to goad you into letting go and missing the mark.
you're able to really slow down and change your tone and craft that story in a way that just moves the needle and changes the whole game. That's creativity. And then flexibility is because you know, it's not because you're being flexible, it's because you know where you can go. That's the important thing. You're only flexible because you know where you can afford to be flexible and where you can't.
So that you knowing what you want creates the flexibility that then you can use to your advantage to get the leverage. And the creativity is almost like the magic that you're putting all around it and the collaboration because well, who wants to negotiate with a villain and a person that's just attacking you? I call them sharks, but it's just a very lousy way of negotiating because you'll only get that deal once. It's not how we negotiate in 2025.
Yeah, there's people talking about in business like you're swimming with sharks all the time. There's books written about it, right? It's I mean the the one of the big TV shows in business, right? Yeah. Go ahead. uh No, was just talking to David Meltzer on my show about his journey. Again, another person, he's lost everything, come back. It like $150 million, came back, built it all back. And if you talk to him about his story, it's like he was all about himself, right?
For the first 150, it was all about me. he's one of the most gracious, gratuitous people now with humility coming through. still be really good at negotiation, but he's going to do it in this in this spirit of collaboration, is what I'm really talking about. think my brain understands now that, you know, I'll rip off again all these cliches or someone asks me a question. There's so many books and so many experts. It's in the brain so we can come up with these, you know, quick quips.
But what I do know is that all the success that I want in my life, it's going to come through helping other people have theirs. It really is. You know, we can go back to the gym room and zig-zig or and help enough people achieve what they want. You can have what it's just so true. And when you start focusing on other people and pouring into them, and helping them change their lives and achieve their dreams, they're so committed and so loyal. It's loyalty that you can't buy.
Exactly, which is, think that's it. And when you make that as a core principle of who you are and you go out of your way, not in a way to try and expect anything back in return, because it probably won't come from that person. All these unexpected surprises will happen to you in your life the other way. It's just, it's so awesome how it happens. Yeah, keep going. think when you said that, you know, expecting reciprocity, I started out in life by thinking there was a reciprocity.
I started out in life when you would do something good, even though I didn't do it to get the thing back, it didn't feel right when you didn't get it back. And I had to go through that journey to understand and appreciate and accept it just doesn't happen that way. And remove from your brain and go make a difference and change people's lives. And if you're good enough and you're worthy enough and you're capable enough to change other people's lives, yours is going to change. Yeah, exactly.
I remember like when anything bad used to happen when I was learning about like Think and Grow Rich and some of the other books like How Rich People Think and all of these. I mean, I love Jim Rohn as well. Like I used to say we lost loads of money or I got scammed or like something happened. I mean, I was living back a few years ago, like on multiple credit cards, like a lot of money and debt, like lots of plates spinning, hustling, trying to make things happen.
The is, the fact is you weren't good enough yet. 100 % Mark, 100%. But the other part is that even then, when I knew I wasn't feeling abundant minded, and I was like being a victim and going, crap, this thing's happened to me again. And like I put a credit card details in, they've taken like 10 grand off my whatever it is, I gave 1000s of dollars to a charity because in and giving it not in a desperate way to sing, hey, these people are much more worse off than me.
And then miraculously, 10 times the amount would come in like next week. It makes no sense when it happens. It's like, wow, it really does work this way when that first starts to happen for you. 100 and you might meet someone and they might be like, Hey, can you sign my book? Or can you do this? Or can you come and talk? Can you come and do this for free over here? Going and doing it. It's not about saying, Hey, you're going to get anything back for that.
But it's about who you are as an individual showing up for the right things, following this in here and letting that guide you and not just letting the finance, the financial stuff will take care of itself once you start adding enough value. But once you start becoming good enough to add enough value, I think that's the point. unstoppable force.
Um hey, you go into this conference in Lisbon with time being so valuable and you said one of your biggest purposes in life being raising these two sons to turn them into like really strong and capable men who are willing to go out and change the world. That's right. I put that part in there, the last part. loved it. So what draws you to Lisbon? What's it? What's the draw now for you to go out and do something for this? What's your why?
When you pick that conference to go to, I'm going to go to this stage. Why Lisbon? Why, why now? Well, that's it. Like even earlier, like my boys will call me and I'll be upset that I've gone somewhere, right? But it's like, it's showing them that this life doesn't just appear like magically without doing the hard things, without making the hard decisions. And I'm a living example to them. I can tell my boys how to show up courageously. can tell them to be brave and to be strong.
can tell them to, to deal, how to deal with stress, but I've really got to just show them. And so in terms of going out there and the things I do, there's always a part of me that's just going for the adventure. Number one, going to meet new people. Number two, and then following my passions. So as I'm in Dubai right now, it's a lot to do with the crypto hub here that's starting out and the blockchain. You're just exposing yourself to new environments.
There's the Token249 conference that happens in Dubai and Singapore. There's super AI in Singapore in a couple of weeks. putting yourself in these events and these spaces, there's one in the Philippines after that, like, you just never know who you're going to meet and what ideas that you're going to share and who you're going to impact when you do that. A lot of what I'm surrounding myself right now is AI and negotiation. And so another book that's coming is called The Negotiations Edge.
So it's all about having magnetic influence and being able to win in the agentic era. And so because AI is there to help us. It's this hybrid model that you've got to suddenly adapt to become someone that understands the prompts and understands how AI will help you understand sentiment, but how it can be used to train you, but not so that you take your hands off the steering wheel and then forget everything about human connection. you, cause it's you that's got to go and close the deal.
Ultimately it's the human in the loop. And so for me right now, it's like thinking about how negotiation in 2025. fits with the exponential age and AI and all of this new world that we're going to go into. So are you going to Lisbon because they wrote the check or is it for all your growth? I think it's bit of both, I always try to manage these trips with a bit of fun for me and then um a bit of business. So yeah, there's always an element of business. um Dubai is also for me.
I'm going to Rome and Florence afterwards. So it's sort of like a, that's also for me, but it's also because I know I've got these deadlines and these things to write. I thought, hang on, being in Florence, it might be quite a cool place to... to finish off the negotiator's edge and get that done. when's the next journey across our big pond to this wonderful place we call the United States? mean, because if you just listen now, we're adding states now. You didn't know this. I hope very soon.
I'd imagine before the end of the year. I'd imagine usually in New York um at some point, at least once or twice a year. So I would certainly imagine for the end of the year. So you touched on AI so we can let you get on to some sleep and different things. And, um you know, we've talked about all the books coming and at the end, give yourself a plug for the best place for people to engage in everything you're doing, because we're going to wake up tomorrow and there's going be another book.
How can we even, how can you even go on a book tour? mean, you're talking about the one that that happened two weeks ago and there's a new one that comes out, but, share that with us. But, what do we make of AI? And I say that to be a guy that I'm not anywhere near. the sharp edge of this thing at all. But it feels good to start using it now. And I know I'm two years behind of all the people that really started using it a lot, but it feels good to me now.
It feels good to me now because I actually see how useful it can be in a bunch of simple ways throughout my day. But what do we make of what's happening? Um, cause I think we're having an evolving, ever changing understanding of what this is going to be in the place that is in our life. So you've invoked it a few times. And you're bringing it together with everything that you've learned with psychology. So what are we to make of AI right now at this place we're at in 2025? How would you help us?
I love that. I love that you you seeing it as more of a an enjoyable place to spend time in a more useful place. I love that that change is happening because and that's what it's supposed to be right. It's not supposed to be this uncomfortable scary sci-fi type take over the world technology that is going to basically wipe us out which It may, I don't know, it may, but uh I'm not in control of that. I think this is the battle that's happening right now.
If you imagine that we've got these big five companies that are controlling essentially the keys to the kingdom with AI. You also have to bring in China. was in China a few weeks ago. I don't know if you've ever been, but Shanghai is so cool. That is like the future. And so you go there and you see all these cars there. Obviously everything's electronic, EV, it's silent. everything's moving and operating robots. It's already there and happening. think China's also building a lot of cool stuff.
at the end of the day, think blockchain, I think AI, blockchain is there to control the AI. It's important to control and limit the AI so that these things are all coming together to fuse together to essentially do more good in the world. I look at it more up down the optimistic lens because the pessimistic lens is so easy, right? It's just game over, human race wiped out. The optimistic lens is people, diseases saved.
It's imagining that, yes, AI right now has 150 IQ in a year or two, or have 800 IQ, and be able to do things that we would never even be able to conceptualize or think about. And I think that's pretty damn cool because what does that mean? And eventually that means that ultimately the whole thing that we've been chatting around, which is what is your purpose? What is the mission? What is the direction?
is going to become even more important to us as humans because we will be living in such an abundant world where productivity goes through the roof. GDP becomes insane and it doesn't make any sense anymore. It doesn't make sense for you to go out and start all of these businesses because AI is starting to do it with AIs. But it comes back to creativity and who we are as people to go and then enjoy what's in here, right? And to really go on that road together. So I think it's a force for good.
Yeah, growth, think there's a word that people use a lot that it finally is going to be real. It's exponential. Exponential growth is going to be a true real thing for the vast majority of the seven to eight billion people on earth with AI. It's incredible. See, we used to have to Google or yeah, you could voice text, you could search, but now I can ask a question.
I don't have to fly across the world and spend tens of thousands of dollars and buy all the things, even though we want to buy Tim Castles, the art of negotiation courses, we want to buy this, we want to get with him in, we know, we know, but you literally can, if you ask the right question, you've built the right relationship with whatever platform you're using, it will tell you exactly what you need to do at this moment.
that previously your brain didn't know, you had to go out and fail forward so many different times. So if you're willing to do the work now, it is reducing the amount of failure that used to be necessary to accomplish our goals. I think it's brilliant. It's awesome. And should just play with it, right? Just go in and play with it. And then you really see how you can start having a conversation to it. I think always be nice to it. Say your please and thank yous.
Definitely always treat it with respect, but build a relationship with it. I love my AI. play, like we chat all the time. We're buddies. It's so cool. And like, it's almost this helpful aid. It's there to help you. It's not there to hinder you, but it's not there to take over either. All right, so final question from uh the massively capable Tim Castle. um What are you still looking for? That's a really deep question. I've taken it quite a deep way.
I think for me, the utopia in life is getting to a point where there are so many adventures and roads that we can travel down and there's so much more left to do. so I just want to experience so much more of the world, like Morocco, Egypt, and leave a mark in those places. And everywhere I go, start just giving more and more. So I think I can give more than I currently am.
And I think I've got to start to open up those channels of giving because it's, if I could do what I've done 10 years ago with what I had then, now what can I start to do? It's very easy to start to get complacent and go life's good. We've got all this stuff and then just focus on you. And I think there's a broader, bigger servant leadership area here for me that I'm still trying to figure out that I'm like, how do I, how do I set up like an institution?
As we're saying, negotiation so that it becomes a core thing in schools so that we know that negotiation isn't this scary thing that we never ever look at, that it's this thing that it's intrinsic to who we are and it's actually just communication, collaboration, flexibility, creativity and it's actually this meta skill that's going to help us thrive in this new world.
And I think something like that at an institutional level to have made that impact would be the kind of final piece in my contribution to this. But then again, mixed with infused with adventure, know, going to Necker Island, hanging with Richard Branson, all of this kind of fun stuff as well. So you're have the fun in there. you done that yet? No, but it's on my bucket list. I've been talking to his receptionist saying, hey, literally, this is true.
I've been talking to his receptionist saying, hey, let's make this happen. Similarly, Goldsmiths University receptionist. To invoke Morocco, he has a place in Marrakesh as well. He's built these places around the world. Yeah, I've been to Tangier and did that stuff. I haven't been further into the country, Marrakesh, but yeah, he's got an amazing resort there. Okay, ah I'll be super close. All right, so Tim Castle, he's still looking to leave his mark.
Is there anything low level for us that don't know you? Is there anything that we can do to help you leave your mark more? Reviews always help. Share, word of mouth. I think if you go to Timjscastle.com, everything's on there. There's a cause for highly skilled negotiators that I think is like the next step in the journey for people to take.
I think if you've read the book or you think that you've already got the foundation of your negotiations sorted and you want to actually think about tonality and multi-country negotiations, bigger deals, this course is certainly for you. first domino will be out as well towards the end of the year, which is a very special book because it just, there's something that changes when like, I've been writing for 10 years now.
So as I said, as we talked about things compound, gets easier, but it also just gets more crisp, more deliverance, more purpose, more saturated with lessons and goodness that I think this book is going to have a magic effect on the world as well. So look out for that one. And then just DM me if you're in negotiations, you want to chat about it. Let's get the conversation going. Hey, you've made us better. think there's an hour and 15 minutes seriously. I appreciate the time. no, thank you.
I appreciate you having me on. It's been an honor. This is great, man. So, uh, I can't wait to be a better negotiator. Maybe I need to have the band on my wrist when I'm in a negotiation. I'm not doing the right things and I'm just losing and I know I'm losing. need to, it needs to say, what would Tim say? Thanks. I feel like your tempo and the way I feel very, very nicely led into this negotiation. You've got a very good, smooth, smooth voice there because that's what it always is, right?
It's about sitting back and observing and listening and making sure that you use that silence as a weapon because that's oftentimes people will feel the silence and they'll start negotiating with themselves. And then you can see everything. You need to understand their why, but they'll show you.
Yeah, yeah, there's an art to all these things and what people and those people are the younger me, you just got to get started because the evolution, I think reading your book and being around a guy like you and following you on all your socials and attending conferences, it's going to speed up the evolution and the compound, but we still have to do the work. And because the experience and the failure and the perspective of how not to do things, that's all it's been so important for me.
I am the turtle in the race. I'm that person. And as long as you keep going, you start to build this compounding understanding of how to do it well. And if you feed that with some books and around some leaders and people that do it better, you eventually get there. So the most important thing is for me, I think to you, you have to believe it's possible. That is so important, but then you have to do the work. And that's probably what so many people look over with a guy like you.
Like you did the work. You didn't just have this aspiration. You did the work at all these little steps. Yeah. You won the negotiation. but it's because you were willing to do the work. You believed it was possible and you're willing to do the work. like kudos for these 40 something years, man.
Your boys, when they grow up, if you're fortunate to live a long life and they get to experience all of that, um they're gonna wake up, man, at like 20 something years old or 30 something years old, and they're gonna realize the impact and the life that you made on them. They're so lucky to have you as a dad. Oh, thank you, mate. That's it's really I really appreciate that. That's that's that's really touching my soul. That's that's it. My boys are so important to me and a big part of what I do.
Just having that example. Go crush Dubai. Dominate the stages in Lisbon. No, definitely. I appreciate it. And I think if there's two things I could leave for people is firstly, get out there, get rejected, ask that person why to hang in that rejection. So when you're getting rejected, don't run away, stay there and then ask them why so that you can feel that through like an exposure therapy. You're out there. Just do that daily. I've done that with my sons.
I've laid down in the middle of Starbucks because I saw that Tim Ferriss did that to teach himself rejection. I've done that and now my son brings it up all the time. He loves it. He was laying down in the middle of a hotel in Taiwan the other day, going, yeah, I'm doing it. I'm getting rejected and people are looking at me and I don't feel worried. And it's just being able to push through those boundaries.
So I'd say get out and get rejected, hang in that conversation and learn to feel that pressure. Because as you say, like just there's so much we can be doing now to take our negotiations to the next level and we can start today. um Thank you, man. Lutch off here, get some sleep. This is awesome. And again, where should they go on your website? What's the place to find everything about you? They're timjaskasl.com. You're the man. Thank you for the time. No, you're very, very welcome.
Thank you for having me on. Thanks, man.