Welcome to the music room. At this time in the music room.
I'm fortunate enough to teach down myself, you know, I do some lecturing and I say the same thing to my students, it's not really so much about the music. I mean, you're expected to be able to write great music. But, um, the thing that they don't teach you is that you need to be able to get along with people and, work with people, work with different people, you know, and kind of read the room those soft skills are ones that you really need.
Hello and welcome to The Music Room, the show where I chat with composers, songwriters and musicians about what they're up to before going back in time to find out how it all began for them. How are you at the moment? Doing okay? Autumn can be a good time creatively to knuckle down after the summer, get some stuff done. I've actually recently been doing a bit of an audit of my social media use and I've found I've just had too many accounts.
Too much time spent preparing posts for too many accounts. So, I had a long hard look at what I should be posting and where. And this is what I came up with. You can do this too, but this is just what I decided is going to work best for me. So, uh, let's go through them. LinkedIn, great for networking with potential hirers and fellow podcast industry people in my case. So that's all I use it for now. The other networks are great for keeping up with peers. Whose peers?
You know, composers, friends, musicians. Um, Instagram. Now I like Instagram, but there's a Music Room account that doesn't really do much. And I always feel guilty for not spending more time on it. So from now on, all the Music Room content, in fact all of the content that I produce, will go via, uh, my personal account, atGarethSounds. So come and follow me there. Generally, if you're a similar composer, musician, songwriter, Whatever, I will follow back. Facebook.
I have an artist page and, of course, the lovely Music Room community group. So, I'll be on Facebook as long as the group is. Um, I think Facebook has its drawbacks on the community side, but it's where a lot of my peers are. Uh, there's peers again. And, uh, so there we go. That remains home for that. And then, here's the clever bit. I cross post, or I've set it up, from my Instagram account to my Facebook page. Boom. I still keep an eye on the comments and messages, of course.
But there's about a minute saved right there. They all add up, don't they? Ex formerly Twitter. Hmm. Um, I don't know about you, but I think I'm done. I'm plucking up the courage to pull the plug on the account. But I don't like what it's become, really. And, in fact, you could argue it's not the same platform anymore. Crucially though, if I'm spending time preparing stuff, it would be nice to know that the platform will still be there this time next year.
So, thanks for the tweets, but I'll be seeing you. Which brings me to Threads, which had a rocky start, but I can say with confidence, that so far it's a nicer experience than X and recently there's been a, one of those deer algorithm post things that seems to have sorted the feed into who I want to see. So now my feed is full of musos, perfect. Hello threaders if you're listening and welcome to the music room podcast. Anyway, that's enough of that. How do you use the social media?
Do you limit yourself, or do you try to be everywhere? Get in touch via, well, wherever you use social media, I suppose. My links are in the show notes. In this episode, you're going to hear from composer Christopher Barnett, who's had an extraordinary journey from hearing Ravel's Bolero in primary school, to scoring countless feature films, documentaries and more.
And if you stick around, Chris will also be leaving an amazing item, gave me goosebumps actually, and a solid piece of advice for anyone trying to navigate becoming and being a composer. But first, music stories. session cellist and sample library developer Matt Constantine has a brand new and very interesting library out via his company It's All Noise. The release reads, We're proud to announce our first contact player product, Ultimate Cello Textures Harmonics Pad.
This is a prequel and sister library to the larger Ultimate Cello Volume 1, Harmonics, which will be out soon. This textures series of libraries... Focuses more on sound design, with this specific library being a pad designer, using samples of cello harmonics. And here's the good bit, if you're a member of the Music Room group on Facebook, you get an extra 10 percent off. Link is in the show notes. That's like free money right there.
Next, just for fun, I asked the Facebook group their top three movies about music. Let's see Pete said tar is my favorite. Oh, I've not seen that soul rocket man bohemian rhapsody. That's for I know the one I hate most is whiplash Jonathan says this is spinal tap classic. Mr. Holland's opus bohemian rhapsody That's a couple for bohemian rhapsody, isn't it? David says, Barbarian sound studio, if sound design counts. The soloist, the piano teacher, all had quite an effect on me.
Robin, almost famous. Amadeus, oh great old classic that is. Uh, the piano. Uh, Rod says, Singstreet, Featuring music from Music Room guest Gary Clark. Uh, Spinal Tap and Dig. Uh, Matt says, The only one which really strikes me that hasn't been mentioned yet is The Red Violin. Oh, that's a great film. Daisy says, Brassed off. Absolutely brilliant. Tara says, Lots of those mentioned, but also the beat my heart skipped. I've not heard of that one. I might have to look that up.
Alexandra says, Want to add tick, tick, boom. Started sobbing at the truth of the throwing a ball against the wall line. Again, not, not seen that one. Uh, Claire says, it's very silly but still crazy is a classic. Quite right too, it is a classic. Herman says Amadeus and would be hard pressed to think of two more. Come on Herman, you can think of two more. Uh, Broly, close encounters. Hmm, is that because of the spaceship? Shine. Shine is brilliant, isn't it? Yeah, Blues Brothers.
Obvious classic. Tom says Brasdorf 8 Mile. 8 Mile's a good one, yeah. The Man Who Knew Too Much. It's not about music, it has Bernard Herrmann as the on screen conductor. I'm not sure that qualifies, Tom. But yeah, so many great movies there. What are your favorites? You can get in touch in all the usual places. Christopher Bara is a versatile and dynamic composer known for his work in cinema and television.
His extensive list of credits include feature films A Dose of Happiness and Borrowed Time and documentaries Breaking Boundaries and Joy Womack the White Swan, which charts the story of the first American to train a dance with the Bolshoi Ballet. Airedale Records will be releasing an EP of Chris's score for the Joy Womack documentary on Friday the 8th of December this year and will be available on.
All streaming platforms, his personal EP, which, uh, you'll hear more about shortly featuring Andy G Jones, Ashok Clowder, Daisy Cool, and Joni A. Fuller will be released early 2024. Let's get into that there music room and catch up with Chris. Here we go.
Christopher Barnett, composer. Welcome to the music room.
Thank you, Gareth. Wonderful to be here.
You're very, very Uh, how are you today?
I'm good. as you say, it's been a bit rainy, bit of flooding here in North London. Um, and I'm just kind of, uh, trying to keep a bit of a sore throat away, but, um, otherwise I'm, I'm good. Very well.
Yeah, we were having a quick chat about the colds before hitting record and it's, uh, yeah, we're so used to, COVID and testing and, uh, it's quite a surprise to have a cold.
I know.
uh,
I feel, I feel like Barry White with a, you know, low husky voice.
So in planning for this chat, Chris, I had a listen to your stuff, of course, and I've, seen your progress on, uh, social media over the years. I find it a bit difficult to categorize you or pigeonhole you as a soundtrack composer, which personally, I think that's a big compliment because, I can't find... Who you sound like to in order to do that. What's your approach when you're first attached to a project? How do you decide sonically? What's right for the production?
Thank you. That is a compliment because, um, I am a bit averse to, to, you know, quote unquote, film music. so to answer your question, I try to find a way into the, um, the story. you know, try, try to, to compose from the inside out, you know, really get to the heart of the characters and, and who they are and the story and the environment. And it, it, you know, sometimes when I, when I ask directors questions that, you know, they, they wonder why I go.
I tried to go quite deep, so I might be asking questions about, you know, how did this character grow up? You know, what trauma did they experience? And really try to build a picture so that I can draw on that to, to kind of speak about them in musical terms. So maybe that's why music sounds very non soundtrack like.
Yeah, yeah. And it I guess that time spent at the start, if you're putting in the time, you're more likely to be on the same page on you. It's the producers and the director.
Exactly, yeah.
Saving time later on.
Yeah, you know, and, and, you know, the time directors are hearing things that they never would have expected,
Yeah.
from, from the, the, the temp track, you know, the dreaded temp track. Um, but you know, I, I, I do try to be, um, as original as, as I can, you know,
Yeah, so it's having a brave o meter, isn't it? How brave are you going to be? there are you going to be? do you think they're prepared to listen to? Uh, yeah,
So, so very grateful for the trust that my director's placing me, you know, cause it is a huge amount of trust.
that's when you know when you're working with people who really care about what they're doing.
Definitely. Definitely.
Yeah, and you have a forthcoming EP,
Yes.
found out. What prompted that and when can we expect to hear it?
so, um, I'm kind of at the moment awaiting, a couple of projects to start that they're in post production and filming. Uh, last year, um, I lost three people very close to me. My father was one of them. And, um, at the time I was scoring. two pictures at the same time and didn't really have a chance to really grieve, if you like, you know.
But still, while I was busy going about my day, doing my job, I noticed certain feelings would come up and all out of the sudden and couldn't really understand them, you know. So I thought, you know, I really want to document these feelings, these emotions. Um, I wouldn't say they were even negative emotions, just, just weird, just weird emotions. Um, so I thought, you know, I'll, I'll write this EP. so having the thought and then actually getting started are two different things.
But, uh, I think we got to, um, August and I thought, you know, I just got to get started. Um, went on holiday with my family and had a good think about it. Came back and then just dived in. So it's been a wonderful experience. I've really, really enjoyed it, actually. Scoring to picture is such a different way of working, you know.
You have visual in front of you, and you have the characters, and this is a bit more introspective, really having to kind of work out what I want to say and how I'm going to say, you know. But it's been, it's been great.
yeah, so instrumentally, style wise, we expecting to hear?
Hmm. Um, I, very, very difficult to,
let me put it another way, is like a leap away from what you, your usual approach? Or is it, You know, have you leaned into the things that you're most comfortable with? How have you approached that?
it's been a mixture of things. You know, my, my musical background has been so eclectic, but there's, I would say there's some, there's some jazz in there. Um, there is some orchestral, delvings in there. There's some almost like 20th century musical ideas in there, you know, it's, it's all done with a sense of, dare I say, melancholy, you know, and, um, heartfelt writing.
So, you know, I'm working, I've, I've invited four wonderful instrumentalists that To um, be featured on each track and um, they're bringing their own gifts and you know, to it. So yes, it's wonderful. you'll have to just wait till I share it with you all. Ha ha ha
It's fantastic. And I'm so to hear about your dad. and hopefully there was some catharsis in writing an EP
absolutely yeah, yeah.
and putting it out there. Um. Are we ready to go back in time? Let's find out how it all began
Well, well, yes, um, I don't come from a musical family, first off. So, for me, it, you know, it's been a bit of a journey. I've always had a love for music, though. You know, my family, my earliest memories are going to parties with my family, listening to reggae music and that kind of stuff. I played the drums for about a year. When I was at school, I was at 11. Absolutely loved that.
Oh wow, was intro to
yeah, first foray. Yeah, yeah. But before that, around this, yeah, probably about a couple, maybe a year or two before that, I have a very strong memory of sitting in school assembly and hearing um, Ravel's Bolero for the first time. And, It just knocked me for six, you know, it's like, what is this? Because up to that time it was all reggae, you know, and so maybe that has something to do with the drums, I don't know.
But, um, I absolutely loved the drums, but sadly couldn't, wasn't able to keep it, keep it up because I couldn't afford a drum kit. I come from a very, very poor background. And, um, yeah, so I had to give that up. And then, um, for several years I, Began DJing through my teens, so I would organize, parties. you know, sell tickets, sort of did boat trips, you know, you know, that kind of thing.
And I would say through DJing, I kind of found a way to understand what music works and what music doesn't work with, with an audience, if you like, dancers. and then, uh, when I left school, I had to get a job. So I became, uh, an engineer. Working on power stations and doing drawings and that kind of thing.
actual engineer, not a, not a sound, I'm not saying sound engineers aren't engineers, of course they are, but, you actually getting your hands dirty.
Yeah, exactly. So I would do you know drawings on for power stations and stuff like that But in the evenings I began I met met a chap called Michael Riley who was former lead singer of, the band Still Pulse, which is a Birmingham reggae band. And he was producing chart music, top 40 chart music. Um, he ran a, uh, an outfit called the Reggae Philharmonic Orchestra. And they would provide strings for artists, soul to soul and these people.
So I, I spent a year shadowing him and, and tape, learning how to tape op in the studio.
Hang on, hang on, back How did happen? you're working as an engineer and meet this guy, was it in a pub or was
no, it was through a family friend, um, who was a fashion designer and she, she knew everybody. So she knew him and said, Chris has this burning desire to do music. Can you, you know, take him under your wing? And he very kindly said, yeah, just come, keep your mouth shut and, you know, tag along. So I would, I would go to work during the day. Do my, my, my engineering during the day. In the evenings, I would be out with him till two, three in the morning.
Um, letting how to let in the studio, you know, had the desk. And, uh, it was real tore tapes in those, in those days. But, um, I very, I had a very, a very, very good understanding of, of the studio layout and how to, you know, how to record and produce just by watching what he was doing, you know?
So, I spoke about the engineering thing earlier. that actually help you being an engineer and then being put in a studio environment? Did that engineering brain of yours kind of make those kind of sonic connections, those audio connections, signals, and you know, this goes there, that connects to that?
yeah. Kind of. I mean, it's, it's hard to really. Pin down, you know, how the brain was working at that time, but, um, I really wanted to be a record producer at that time, you know, I was inspired by Quincy Jones and, uh, you know, listening to albums of Michael Jackson and, George Benson, you know, and how Bruce Sweden. mixed and mastered those tracks, it's just, just so, so great, you know, it's such a great sound, like galaxy chocolate type sound, you know.
So that, that was really my kind of thinking and way in, you know, um. Then the engineering world, that kind of stopped, dried up, and I thought, well, okay, I'm going to be a poor anything. I'm going to be a poor musician. So I, um, I dived into the world of music, learned how to play the piano, practicing, you know, seven to ten hours a day.
old would you have been when you started learning the
by this time I was early twenties.
Wow.
I was early, I was really very late starter,
I think there's a little pause button to be hit there because, you know, for people who think, oh, no, it's too late to to learn something new. I mean, that's quite something to go. Just take yourself from that point in time to where you are now. That's amazing.
Absolutely. And I had a young family as well. So, know, yeah, it was a, it was a, it was a task. It was a daunting task, but it was purely the love of music. You know, I'd, I'd no, no real ambitions to, to, to be anything and be this film composer or didn't even enter my mind at that time. I just wanted to, to learn music. So I enrolled at Morley college, which is an adult education. College in Waterloo. I mean, Gustav Holst used to teach there in the 40s and 50s.
And, um, I just did literally every course in that place. You know, there was sight singing, there was jazz piano, jazz composition, um, harmony and counterpoint. I did a bit of acting, you know, just, just all these different, different courses, uh, jazz theory. And then when I came out, I felt I had a really quite strong grounding in, being able to notate and write music. And I did a degree, three year degree at Roehampton Institute in, um.
Just basic music, but we did a lot of, the classical music, but we also did, world music. So, I learned gamelan, uh, still pans, um, I spent three months in America learning Native American music and spirituality, music of Shona, you know, so it's a wonderful place. Wonderful three years I had there. I, then I came out of there and thought, okay, what do I do now? I know. I love you. Do a film masters. So I did a, uh, yeah, a year film masters after that.
And that helped me to consolidate the previous six years of intense study that I'd embarked on, you know,
Did it kind of put it all into context in terms of writing to picture?
absolutely. And working with musicians, um, because my, my experience of working musicians was, was before that was just to have like, I had, I used to run like a quintet, a jazz quintet. We would, you know, gig around London while I was studying and doing odd jobs and that kind of stuff. Which was, which was great, you know, really valuable.
Um, but doing the master's course helped me to work with, um, string players and, um, woodwinds and brass and that kind of stuff and kind of put it all into context. And then once I finished that, it was, okay, what do I do now? Okay, I better try and get some work.
Right. So you, you've done your film masters, you walk through the gates to the big wide world What are you thinking? I mean, are you thinking at that point, I really want to actually be a film composer because you've put it into context? Or are you thinking, I don't know anybody? Or I mean, for me personally, when I started, I have no clue. I didn't know quite who to contact or, or what.
Absolutely.
it for you?
I, you know, I think, you know, going from engineering into recorded engineering and then study, you learn how to be personable. and um, how to kind of get along with people and embrace people and have them embrace you. So, I knew it was really a matter of just, just meeting film people and offering my, you know, my services and luck, lucky for me, um, I managed to...
To get, I think, quite a few short films straight off the bat, and then, um, a feature film in my second year out of college, you know, um, which is an Albanian, an Albanian feature, uh, comedy as well, so, yeah, for the first year A few films that I scored were comedies, um, which is, when I look back now, is quite a challenge because it involves different styles of music throughout, you know, so I was kind of bringing in all the training I'd had up to that time in a film, you know.
Yeah. Yeah, did through your training years, you had a set of contacts that you kind of dove into or was it largely just going out and networking?
It was just going out and networking because I knew nobody, you know, anybody in film, you know, um,
peers, so other people trying to do the same thing.
yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a few of us on the course and, you know, I think only, only three of us are actually working now from, you know, early 2000s. But, um, yeah, literally just, just, Get out, you know, kiss babies, shake hands and, and meet people, you know, and, and
folks. That's what you have to do.
that's what you have to do.
Yeah.
The presidential campaign. Absolutely. You know, and I'm fortunate enough to, to teach down myself, you know, I do some lecturing and I say the same thing to my, my students, it's not really so much about the music. I mean, you're expected to be able to write great music.
But, um, the thing that they don't teach you is that you need to be able to, to get along with people and, work with people, work with different people, you know, and kind of read the room those soft skills are ones that you really need. Really important.
right. And that's led you to collaborate with people as well. I know you've, you've collaborated on a number of things with, uh, Frank Hilfman, who was a guest
Yeah. Yeah. Frank. Frank is, um, yeah, he's a very close friend. He's like, like a, like a brother to me really. Um, and yeah, but when, when he, whenever he's in the studio, I, I tend to tag along and. You know, help with the producing and, you know, be an extra set of ears in the studio. He had a documentary called Spear Goes to Hollywood, um, which he was scoring a few years ago. And he brought myself and his assistant, John Lou Pinson, on board. And, together we, we scored that.
I think it was... just prior to the COVID outbreak. Um, it was quite, quite an intense period, but, um, it was great to work with him and, and, you know, learn how he does things and, you know, vice versa. So, yeah, wonderful experience. Yeah. But he's a good friend.
It sounds like you've been a sponge for just the any kind of knowledge and experience just
and I'm still, and I'm still learning. I'm still learning and still, still have been that sponge, you know. It's, it's good to just kind of keep your, your, your ears open. Keep yourself open to that.
we're veering into bits of advice here, aren't we?
Ha ha
why don't we, uh, why don't we get into that? Um, I do ask all of my guests to leave an and a piece of advice in the music room for others to find. I didn't even ask. Have you prepared an item and a piece of advice?
I have a couple of items. This is a bit like desert island, island ist it?
it?
Um, can it be, um, paper with some words on it? Or does it have to be an actual thing?
Well, paper with words on it is a thing, isn't it?
Okay. So when I decided to embark on this journey, I had, I had lots of trepidation, you know, coming from my background where we didn't know how to even get started in the music business because I didn't know anybody. I didn't even know if, if I could or was allowed to, you know, so I came across this quote by Goethe. Um, let's see if I can find it. And it, it really inspired me, and it goes um, he says, Until one is committed, there is hesitancy.
The chance to draw back always in effectiveness concerning all acts of initiative and creation. There is one elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves him. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. The whole stream of events. Issues from the decision.
Raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance Which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. So whatever you can do or dream you can begin it Boldness has genius, power and magic in it, begin it now. And I always go back to this quote, whenever I'm, you know, trying to figure out whether, um, I can actually do something or maybe I'm a bit tentative or shy or, or, or afraid, fear, it's huge.
You know, and I know there are lots of people who, who feel that, you know, what we do is not for them because they don't have the years of musical... training or these sorts of things. So just, just find that quote and just keep it pegged on your wall. So what I'm handing over is a piece of paper with this quote, pin it to your wall and just keep reading it over and over again.
that's brilliant. I had goosebumps then. Because this is it. And other guests have said similar things about get started. You know, it's all very well. Sitting in your head, but until you get going and get that idea out,
Absolutely. Yeah.
know, it's easy to hide behind as well, isn't it? I've got this great idea. Well,
Yeah. Yeah.
not, it's not a thing until you've made it.
Getting started is tough. It's hard.
Yeah, and getting over that fear of failure, like you say, that, that ties in as well. That's great. That's going in the music room then. Does your advice tie in with that, or do you have a piece of
A separate piece of advice would be to have a very open mind to music, to explore. One of the challenges I had when I started my degree was, we did like a year of learning 20th century music. So, you know. Wayburn and Berg and you know, Sean Berg and all that stuff. And at a time I really hated it. You know, it was, it was excruciating hearing all these screechy and, you know,
extremes,
yeah, yeah. You know, look, you know, one, one task, look at the, the wall and, and score the wallpaper, you know, it's like. Come on, what the, you know, I was going to swear then, but my love at the time was, was jazz. I was heavily into jazz, but when I look back now, I, I'm so grateful for that time because it's really opened me up to, to really being able to, to write almost anything, you know, um, and having the, the, the courage to explore different things.
So that, that will be my thing, you know, just. Try to be open, um, to anything that comes your way. Don't, don't block it because you say it's not my, not my thing. Just explore it and then see where the road takes you. You know, I never expected to be a film composer and yet here I am, you know? So,
Wow. Okay. Well that, I think, is a very good place to round things up. Christopher Barnett, thank you so much for joining me in the music room.
thank you Gareth and, what you do is wonderful. So yeah, keep going.
Will do.
Thanks for listening to the Music Room podcast today. If you'd like to know more about the show or the community that surrounds it, head to music room.community. The link is in the show notes.