Ep 658: Lowell Greenblatt

It's an uphill battle.

It's the Movie Crypt! Happy New Year and welcome to another edition of the Movie Crypt. I'm Adam Green. I'm Joe Lynch. And we are recording this conversation on Monday. Way back. Way back. way like a year ago like crazy well not not really a year ago a month ago uh december 8th it's still 2025 when we're recording this and if things go as planned this episode will be releasing very early in the new year might even be the first episode

of the new year. And I hope you guys had a wonderful holiday season. Hope you survived your families at the dinner table. It's crazy the amount of people like every year that you talk to are like, nope, not going home. For the holidays, can't do it. And it's just, we got to get past this as a civilization.

Three more years. Anyway, our guest this week is Lowell Greenblatt, who is the author of Nightmare Autopsis. And it is a book about the nightmare on Elm Street. franchise. Now there's been books about Nightmare on Elm Street. There's obviously the incredible Never Sleep Again documentary that covers the whole franchise. But what is really cool about this book is that

Lowell speaks to a lot of people that you don't get to hear from all the time who had very important roles in the making of this series. So I highly recommend it if you're a Nightmare on Elm Street fan, which... I would guess about 95% of this audience are Nightmare on Elm Street fans. You will definitely enjoy reading this book. And I've read almost all of it. I skipped some chapters in the very middle just to have it.

finished in time to have this conversation with lull but over christmas i'm gonna be reading all those other chapters and it's it's funny uh whenever We're sitting down to talk to somebody. We always make sure we've seen their movies and prepare for it. But this is our second episode with an author in two months.

Cause Jake Lenny came out, I think came out like very beginning of December. And so when you're, when it's filmmaker on filmmaker, of course you're going to say, how do you make your days? How do you deal with the stress or whatever? But like. You haven't written a book yet. I wrote one with Joe Netter, iSurvivor, which you'll hear more about that later. Hey, I read a lot of books. Well, you listen to a lot of books. But because of the...

The subject of this book, there was so much to talk about. I mean, it's not every day you get to have a heart-to-heart about the director's cut of Nightmare on Elm Street 5. I love that. So this is a great conversation to be starting the year off with, whether it's the first week of January or the second. It's inspiring. Definitely make sure you listen till the end because there's some great stuff there. And yeah.

Anything to add? I wish I read more books because I would have already read this book, but... He does talk about the audio book, which got me very excited. Yeah, it sounds like there is an audio book coming. Woohoo! And you're going to be on some pretty long flights this Christmas. Yeah, I'm going to need it. He did send us a digital one. Ah, it's not the same. Just admit you can't read. No! Read this. What does it say? Bibble? What the hell is a bibble? Oh, Bible.

All right. So our next guest is an author, but even cooler, this is his first ever book. It's called Nightmare Autopsis, A Return to Elm Street. And it is a in-depth retrospective of the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise. I know there's been other books about it. I know we have never sleep again, which is incredible, but this one is different. So here to tell us all about it is author Lowell Greenblatt.

Thanks guys. Wow. I got my very own movie crypt intro. I was going to say even cooler is the fact that you are, you're a fan of the show. So that makes it even cooler. I would say. Oh, yeah. Since the days of Bruce Fury. Oh, my God. Bruce Fury. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I go back and I go deep.

it's funny i tell my wife that all the time that's how we like it hey yeah um so all right why why write a novel or or at least a book. We'll just call it a book right now. And why A Nightmare on Elm Street? Well, Nightmare on Elm Street was the series that got me not just into horror, but into movies in general. I talk about it in the book, but I first saw it when I was six years old. It blew my mind. And as my love of movies grew...

I'd always come back to the Elm Street films. And as I learned more about movies and how they're made, I went back to the Elm Street films. And in high school, that's when the age of DVDs and Blu-rays and all that started coming out. And you get all these retrospectives and commentaries and special features. And I know I don't need to tell you guys how much I miss those with all the great new releases that don't come from boutique labels. And there weren't any for Nightmare on Elm Street.

beyond the first one and New Nightmare. And, you know, and there's so much on all the other horror franchises. And not to take anything away from them, but... To me, Nightmare is the cream of the crop. It's just the best, and I know a lot went into the making of those movies. I knew that even before I wrote the book, but... I knew there had to be someone out there besides myself who wanted to read about it and appreciate it. And...

Yeah, it's just, I kept waiting. I love Never Sleep Again, the documentary, and the book, which is just on the first film. But I wanted books for all of the sequels. And I really thought around the 40th anniversary of... of the original.

that we were going to get some of that. Because I don't know why. 40 is kind of like a magic number in horror circles. You know, Halloween 2018 was the 40th anniversary. Brought back Jamie Lee Curtis and eventually leads to her getting back in the spotlight and winning an Oscar. and we get an amazing 4K retrospective and all that of Texas Chainsaw Massacre but

when it came time for nightmare, it's just one 4k disc and yeah, I'm going to buy it cause I'm me and it looks great, but where's all the fanfare and the, the, the love and the retrospective. And I just thought, well,

No one's coming to save me, so I'm just going to do it. I'm going to write my way out, and I did. This is just a random theory, but do you think the fact that the remake was so... ill-received might have kind of i don't know oh yeah dampened the industry's desire

To do more like it's only a matter of time before they take another swing at a remake remember I mean when when the When Platinum Dunes, who were all riding really high on Texas Chainsaw and Friday the 13th, there was actually like, I remember it like. there was a fan appreciation and a groundswell of excitement for it because they seem to maybe not, not Friday the 13th as much as Texas chainsaw, but there was an acceptance that they were doing the right thing at that point.

And then they brought in Sam Bayer, who at the time was one of the best music video directors. Then they got Jackie Earl Haley, which was like at the, you know, again, at the time people were like, fuck yeah, that was exciting. And then everybody saw the movie, you know, and then all the production ill wills started to come out and people started blaming each other and pointing fingers and stuff like that. But and what's even stranger is that.

Over the years, again, not Texas Chainsaw as much, but when Friday came out, you and I went to go see it opening night and we were like, oh, that's pretty good. You know, good nipple placement. But then over the years, it was fucking great. And Derek was great. But over the years.

It seems to have gotten like a bigger appreciation. People started to like kind of go, actually, it's a pretty damn good movie. And no one has really for this. Like anytime I've brought up the remake, people still, I've never had a defender. I've never had someone say, hold on, this movie's actually good, and here's why. Micro naps, you know? I'm like, no, there really hasn't. At least not in my circles. But it is sad, though. You're right, Lola.

it's the 40th anniversary and we got one 4k release that one 4k though the one that's in like the vhs box really cool like i i thought it was going to be when they did that one that each year, because there was this glorious time called the eighties. And there was a time where we would get sequels every year. you know, but whether it was Friday the 13th for a long time, but actual sequels. Yes. And, and, you know, even though.

Some people would go, no, they're just cranking them out for fans. You know, when you had, when you went from nightmare one to nightmare two and then three and four and five, like boom, boom, boom. We were getting those back to back. And then Halloween kind of followed suit. I thought it was going to be that each year there was going to be a new 4K for each one that would be subsequently, you know, like built together into a box set, but no love for two, which has.

gained a huge fandom over the years which is great um yeah it is it is really strange but that said i like and i want to kind of go back and i'm going to pose this to all three of us

What do you remember the first time that you saw the first Nightmare on Elm Street? Because... I specifically remember it being because, you know, again, this is at the time where Fangoria was huge and all of us were opening up our, you know, Fangorias to get like the new and the latest cool horror movie that was coming out. And when Nightmare on Elm Street hit Fangoria, I was like.

What is this? And I will never forget 11 o'clock at night. HBO had a commercial where it was just the ceiling shot. That was it. It was just like, and then after, like after Freddie stretched down, stretched back up again, it said a nightmare in Elm street, Friday night at eight on HBO. That was it. And it fucked me up.

For so long, just that one shot. And then finally, when I saw it, it fucked me up some more. Lowell, for you, when was the first time that you saw the first Nightmare on Elm Street and how? Well, I...

I'll back up a little bit. Just to answer your question real quick, Adam. Yeah, I think because the remake did shit the bed in so many ways, and the Craven estate... has the rights and there's a lot of little things why no one wants to touch it and I get into it in the book though I don't cover the remake so much because reasons that you'll read about or will be explained later

But I watch all, because of luck of the draw, I watched all the franchises out of order. Because I grew up on Long Island, like 10 minutes away. Wait, wait, where in Long Island? New Hyde Park? Oh, not bad. All right. I'm Port Jeff Station, so that's okay. That works. I know. I know. My wife grew up in, like, Center Reach. Hey, I used to live in Center Reach. I went to school in Hempstead. Does that count? No, it doesn't.

Well, you're near Witch's Brew, so, you know, you get a pass because that's tangentially cool. But, you know, for the youngins out there...

You're sort of at the mercy of whatever's on TV and whatever's at the video store. And my parents would let me rent anything, but I could only rent one tape at a time. So it's really what's available to you. That's why the first Freddy... movie i saw was freddy's dead at a sleepover when i was six and i was so scared i was so scared of being scared because like my friends brought it over and i'm like oh god i'm gonna be scared in front of my friends but it wasn't scary at all

But immediately afterwards, I'm like, OK, this is part six. Where are the other five? I need to see them right now. So and it's funny, like when it came to Hellraiser, I saw three first and then I saw one. And then I saw one and two back to back on the USA network. So I didn't know Jesus wept till I was in college. Wait, on the USA network, was it USA's up all night or was it? Or was it?

I miss Up All Night with Rhonda Shearer and Gilbert Godfrey, but it wasn't that. I did see Halloween 2 on Up All Night, but it was just on regular degular USA Network. But when I did finally see the original Nightmare, I had seen a few of them first. So I was primed for what Freddy was, but I wasn't prepared for how scary it was.

the first film is terrifying and when you say you know it's the cream of the crop it it really is because the idea is so terrifying and that you can't fall asleep or he'll get you. All the other killers up until then were just sort of like unstoppable machines that kill, you know? Maybe Norman Bates was a lot more complicated than that. Yeah, but for the most part, they all followed the Michael Myers model in a way. And here's Freddie who breaks that mold by being able to.

infiltrate the one place you felt like you could hide, which was your brain, your dreams. And Wes tapped into that. I remember I was the only one that watched the first one and then the second one. And it wasn't until the third one where all of my friends got on board. And that's primarily because of MTV because up until before it was.

this movie that was on the cover of all that scary movie magazine stuff. And you would hear about it from like older siblings, but I like, it didn't feel like it really hit the zeitgeist until Chuck Russell's part three.

And even to a degree, I feel like some of it went down because, look, for all intents and purposes, when a series tries to start a franchise and the sequel is somewhat reviled by the... by the populace they don't really bounce back after that sometimes they don't even get a third movie but here you know the third movie got made and they took a drastic tonal shift that

ultimately made it more commercial ultimately made it more palatable for you know gateway audiences to kind of come in and go i heard about this and i agree with you like with a lot of the with a lot of the um franchise series I didn't see a lot of them with their origin movies. I didn't see Texas Chainsaw Massacre 1. I saw 2 first. I didn't see Friday the 13th Part 2 or 3 first. No, I didn't see 1. I saw...

Three, I saw two first and then two and then one and then four. So it was this weird, but, but you know what? Like, I think there's something to be said about when you have franchises like that, that have the vote of confidence of.

franchisability meaning like if they've made if they've made four of these movies then somebody must be doing something right so you want to kind of jump in on that and that's where a lot of my friends when i was a kid they would ask me all these questions about freddy because they were like what is this dude you know it's like i don't get it he now he's

got a third movie and then i'd be like okay let me let me explain the rules but then they'd watch two and go but that doesn't make any sense how did freddie come out of the fucking pool and then you go hey we don't talk about those rules technically next to the pool he fine okay he was Outside of the pool. I want to get into fucking Kruger semantics here. The heater. Look, Jack shoulder drew me a diagram. So I have it right here. He's great.

well that that brings me to the next question we recently had jay glennie on who he just wrote uh the incredible book about once upon a time in hollywood and he's written books on raging bull and like a whole bunch of movies but one of the questions i asked him was how did you get access to people when you got started because if you don't already have

a litany of books that you've written that where they can look you up maybe read some as a sample a lot of times people you know they're a little more apprehensive of sitting down and spilling their guts how did you How did you go about this? Who was first? Great question. Well...

So, well, let me tell you, at first, I didn't know I was even going to write a book, but when I finally decided to do it, it just kept pouring out of me. I didn't know I was going to have interviews. I just thought, I need to get this out, and I'll sell it out of the trunk of my car. I have to. But then I found a publisher through Harker Press who also made the amazing Taking Shape books, which were kind of an inspiration. Oh, yeah, nice. Yeah, with Dustin McNeil of Harker.

And I've been, I write for Macabre Daily, which is a website that I describe as the Kirkland brand, bloody disgusting, same quality, but fantastic. Really, it started with Mick Strawn. who wrote a book of his own about part four. He was the production designer on three and four with his sister, CJ Strawn, who has passed. But he just seemed really garrulous and like...

really easy to talk to. So I thought, well, I already friended him on Facebook and I don't know him, which I don't usually do, but it's making fucking strong. So I reached out to him and I talked to him. And from there, uh, I went to, um, Adam, that Comic-Con in New Jersey where I met you that you probably don't remember, but the one where Kane Hodder got that well-deserved award. Oh, New Jersey HorrorCon. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, it wasn't that one, but it was, I think, later on. But there was a Part 5 reunion, so people were just sitting at tables, and really it was as simple as, hey, I'm writing a book on Nightmare on Elm Street. And I write for this website, Macabre Daily. Would you be interested in talking to me? And they're like, sure. And I got some good stuff that way. But from there...

And I did talk to Lisa Wilcox a year ago for the part four retrospective for Macabre Daily. But from there, it was, you know, like that old 80s commercial. And they tell two friends and they tell two friends. Like, Dustin, my editor... gave me some leads with some email addresses, and I reached out to people on direct messenger on Instagram, and they had heard that I talked to so-and-so so they know that I'm not crazy. And from there, I just kind of...

gathered a reputation and am somehow the Lorax of the Nightmare on Elm Street series. Wow. But that's very much like how, especially documentaries that are retrospective documentaries. Once you start to talk to the right people, then. someone's always going to go, Hey, I heard from this guy. He's doing this doc. Oh, I talked to him too. Oh, cool. So he's legit then. And then it just snowballs from there. Look at even each other with podcasts and stuff like,

Neither one of us does too many only because we're so busy with this one. It's really hard to say yes. Every time somebody wants to answer you, especially you haven't heard of them, but. uh kane and bill mosley had told me about talks from the crypt they're like definitely do it if he reaches out yep i did it i immediately told you i'm like you do you got to do it it's so great so uh i'm glad you bring that up low because it's like the reputation is everything

And if you're overbearing, if you're unprepared, if it's just the same old questions, they might be like, yes, he was nice or whatever. But there's a difference between... Yeah, he was nice. It was fine. And oh, my God. Yeah. Talk to him like he really knows his stuff and he's doing a great job with this. So glad that happened for you when you're. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Oh, no, I was just going to say, no, like, that's 100% true. Like, I wasn't, I swore the question I was never going to ask was, what was it like working with Robert? Because, my God, you've heard that a million times already. But everyone I talked to was really nice and forthcoming. By the way, I've never met a tangent I didn't love. So if you need to veer me back on track, just let me know. Oh, so you know the show. Come on. You know the show. That's true. The only...

The only interview where I'm like, okay, I really got to bring it, and it was a great interview, and he's a really great guy, was Chuck Russell. Because everyone else just said, yeah, sure, I'll talk about it. But Chuck was like, sure, I'll talk about it. And who are you? write for? And can I get final approval? And is it okay? Like all this stuff? And I'm like, yes. And it was like, okay, I'm going to be my most professional self with Chuck Russell. And we had an amazing interview.

And at the end of it, he was like, no, those were some good questions. I could tell, like, you're a fan. You're not just a fanboy. You know, you're a real sophisticated fan of the genre. And then I blacked out. um but then you got shocked but before but before that

He said he didn't want to be recorded, and I'm like, okay, fine, so I'm going to furiously write notes, and hopefully it'll go well, and maybe I can get a follow-up with him later. But during the interview, which wasn't on Zoom like it usually is, He was like, oh, are we recording? I think we should record it. I'm like, fuck. And I go and I start like the backup recorder on my computer and it captures it. And then I lose the interview.

like it during the export it crashes and i'm like i know i know we've been there dude it happens to the best of us it definitely happens so don't don't sweat it But, like, with Chuck Russell. But then, like, I'm like, okay, deep breath. I let some time go. And then I contact him again. And I'm like, hey, I'm sorry. Just kind of. I lost it. Can we do it again? He's like, sure. And we had a same but better interview.

uh, the next time. Uh, and I, I even sent him the stuff for approval. I'm not even sure if he looked at it. He just had a good time. And like, I proved myself to Chuck Russell, like everything else is gravy. Well, but it's true all of us no matter what side of the camera we're on. We love this stuff. We're into this stuff. And when you meet a fellow comrade who you instantly can tell, Oh yeah, this is one of my people.

You're so willing to talk and you do usually have a good time. While we're on this, before we dive back into the book, for anybody out there who, whether it's a podcast, whether you're writing a book, interviewing somebody for your website. There's nothing worse you can do than make it obvious. You're literally just going through their IMDB and saying, and then you did this one. What was that like? Then you did this one. What was that like? Like we've all been there. It's like.

the new person at the site or whatever and maybe they're they got assigned this and they're just not as from whatever it might be like i am checked out within five minutes like i'll wrap it up as the first chance i get i just like don't waste my time yeah um

But yeah, you obviously were very well prepared for this, but clearly Wes had already passed when you started this. So there was no way to speak to him. What about with like Robert, with Robert England or Heather? So elephant in the room, Robert and Heather aren't in the book.

Not for lack of trying, but there's enough stuff. And I think, and that's why I'm bringing this up. I think your focus on all the people we don't always get to hear from are what makes this really special, but I'm just curious. I mean, obviously I'm assuming. you must have tried for Robert and Heather. Oh, yeah. I mean, multiple, not...

Not a stalker amount of times, but I can count on one hand the amount of times that I reached out to their people, and I guess they've just been talking about it for 40 years. I mean, if you want to find Robert Englund talking about Nightmare on Elm Street... You can find it. It's dead. You talk a mile a minute. So I was a little bummed, but like you said, they're the ones who talk about it.

all the time and so much more went into those movies and also Heather Langenkamp has a self-produced documentary called I Am Nancy about how Nancy doesn't get as much love as freddie does which i which was a big inspiration for me nancy is one of the greatest final girls ever because from jump She's a badass and she's not like getting the answers she wants. She's insisting she knows.

A lot of times the final girl kind of gets roped into this and then finds the courage. Almost fumbles her way through. Sometimes. She falls over bodies. But no, she's proactive. Riddle me this. What's one of the first things she does in the first Nightmare on Elm Street? Is it? Burrowing a hole into a light bulb? No, that's at the end.

When they're blaming Tina's boyfriend. And she's like, not except before that. Was she just standing up to her mom? No, no, no. Before that, she disarms a switchblade. Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, you're right, you're right. Yesu Garcia jumps out of the bushes, and, like, you know he's not going to stab baby-faced Johnny Depp, but, like, he flips the knife, and she gets between them, and she just disarms him like a cop's daughter.

Like, she's a badass from the jump. And to me, she's the best final girl of all time. But if we start debating that, we'll be here forever. But yeah, but that's Wes Craven, baby. That's like the magic of his writing. I think that that's part of the appeal of part three was the return of Nancy, because when we got Jesse, look, Jesse was a divisive character in one form or another, but I think it was divisive purely because.

A lot of times when we watch these movies, we want to see Jamie, you know, we want to see Jamie Lee Curtis back. We want to see what's her name from Friday the 13th, who does come back in two and gets killed, you know? For me, I remember watching the second one, which had that equally disturbing poster that has absolutely nothing to do with the movie, but you're still just like, whoa, what the fuck is this? And I remember watching it going, wait, there's no Nancy, I think.

Clue Gulliger mentions like the girl who used to live here once and that's it. That's all you get. So I think the audience was kind of disappointed that they set up this great character. She does.

ostensibly get away you know even though her mom gets sucked through the fucking door but that then when three came out and she had the streak in her hair she looked like she had lived a life she's a doctor now like it only made you ingratiate to the movie even more but do you think that uh wait actually um did you hear the story that i told on the show before about when i saw nightmare on elm street the 4k panic fest

No, but I have a story about seeing three for the first time, but go first. Okay, this will be quick. So a couple of years ago, Panic Fest hosted a screening of Nightmare on Elm Street in 4K. It was the first time that they were showing it. I think other than... fantasia played it once but this is the first american screening of it everybody was psyched um i got way too uh drunk the night before because we were having our secret screening and my wife and i

It's panic fest. It's what you do. But the next day, like my wife is like, you're not going to fucking make it. You go without me. I'm like, you're going to miss it. I don't know why I sound like Trump there. It's going to be great. So I am like.

hung the fuck over and if you've ever been to panic fest one of the great things about that theater is that they have these amazing uh recliners even better than like amc or any of those other theaters they're like you're sitting at home like you're al bundy like it's Amazing. And there's a seat right in the front center for me. And all I was going to do is grab a pizza and sit down. And there might've been a little bit of me.

That might've been like, you know what? I'm probably going to pass out. I've seen this movie a million times. I just wanted to check out the transfer a little bit. So as the lights are going down, I see some of the ushers bring someone over to sit next to me. The seat was next to me. That was, was empty.

and fucking heather sits down next to me i didn't even know that she was going to be a guest and then i'm like oh man god damn it like i can't i can't fall asleep next to nancy and then even worse she turns me goes hi joe i'm like

you know who I am? She goes, of course I know who you are. And she's like, you're not going to fall asleep. Are you? I'm like, okay, there's like, I had to, literally hold my eyes open like i'm fucking alex the droog from uh from clockwork orange because there was no way that i was going to be like i was gonna bitch out and have her go

oh guess who fell asleep during the movie afterwards and this is a testament in the back of your head going fuck you lynch yeah oh you know that story oh shit okay but what was great was that um

Heather stayed she didn't she was supposed to leave after she stayed for five hours after brought her own photos to sign and sign them for free for everybody who showed up like that's fucking awesome like that's That's the good way of fan service. Now, sometimes that gets abused, you know, but like, and I agree. Like, I feel like Heather West to a degree and Robert have pretty much said everything that they could say.

about that franchise and they're readily available on the convention circuit yeah they do it a lot exactly but a lot of the other ones if it's a reunion or something they'll be there but they're not but i do i liked about this book i do want to hear from some of the other directors, like I, when our director, we had cast members having Jack shoulder on, or, you know, Jack Hakeem, the guy, the, the, um, the cinematographer, you know, like, yeah.

Chuck Russell, when he was first starting to do interviews, we had him on years ago, and all we could talk about was Nightmare 3. Rennie Harlan, we had him on. The one director that I still want to talk to, even though I am not a fan, is Stephen Hopkins. The director who I used to... What's that? I talked to him. He's in the book. Oh, cool. How, like... But now...

You know, Chuck has been doing this for a long time and he's got another like he's got a bunch of other movies in his body of work that you can see his genre. Rennie, you know, started doing press again when the Strangers movies.

came out and everything and you know of course when I'm not talking about Ford Fairlane of course we're talking about Nightmare 4 but some of the other directors like Rachel Tallahay and you know obviously Stephen Hopkins like were they reticent on talking about them because sometimes directors who um i guess veer into blockbuster territory stephen hopkins was like you know predator 2 and the ghost into the darkness and blown away and 24 like he was rising up

And a lot of times those directors, they, they, they tend to kind of poop who their earlier work was like, Oh, that was just a horror movie to get my foot in the door. How was, how was someone like Steven when you were interviewing him? Did he have the same kind of reverence? you know for the movie that he did maybe some of his later films

Not the same kind of reverence, but he did. He was a he's a jolly Englishman. He was great to talk to. And I joked like, you know, I told my friends that I was talking to Stephen Hopkins for the book solely about Nightmare on Elm Street 5. And they were like, you're not. gonna talk about ghost in the darkness or predator 2 i'm just like no not really um but no he he was great he recalled what he could um i didn't get any

I mean, there was no one who was reluctant. You know, maybe some were more enthusiastic than others, but, like, you know, I think for someone like Steven and even for someone like Chuck, like, and even Jack, like... you know, they have fond memories because it was a big deal for them early in their careers and it did lead to other things.

And I tried to get Rachel Talalay too, but she's shooting in London because she's a director on... One of the busiest TV directors in town. Or out of town, actually. Yeah, so I don't... The people who said... know or who i couldn't get through i'm not i don't hold anything against them i'm happy they're still working

And I think that I have an unbelievable treasure trove of people in my book. I am on a first name basis with people whose action figures I wanted to own when I was a kid, which is insane. It's all just completely nuts. But Steven, I mean...

it's so funny. He was telling me things and I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, that's probably a writer's guild issue. Maybe I'll talk to an entertainment lawyer about that. Not that he's like spilling tea or anything like that, but I'm just like, I don't know if I could put that in, but it's the 80s. It's the go-go 80s, especially the late 80s. But he was like, you know...

He was like, oh, someone wants to talk to me about Nightmare 5. And fun fact, if you love Predator 2, he went right into Predator 2 from Nightmare 5. And they offered him Alien 3 while he was working on... I remember that. I didn't know that. Yeah, there was a moment where... Like any time that you got hired for, I remember them even talking about this in Fangoria where they were calling the nightmare series, the Hollywood factory, because.

It was, you know, you look at Chuck going right into the blob and then, you know, the mask was a couple of years later. Rennie going from Die Hard 2. Yes, Die Hard 2. And Ford Fairlane in the same summer. So he was going back to back to back. And plus, these movies made money. So in a weird sort of way, a lot of these directors were riding on coattails that they... and this is no offense to any of them, that they didn't quite earn because if they had made...

a sleepless evening on film street or whatever the fuck it is. And it wasn't a franchise and it was the same exact movie practically. I don't think it would have made the money that would have made them go, made other studios go, let's get him for our next predator movie or let's get him for our next alien movie. Those, those movies were already kind of.

bankable and it was that the fact that they were smart enough to bring in these burgeoning directors you know chuck was a former producer rennie had just made prison um steven had made like an australian movie i can't even remember what it was but you like a dangerous game or something that's right yes but like they they were for all intents and purposes hired by you know bob shea and and and those guys to make their days they were essentially tv directors in a way because

they knew what they want, like they wanted. And like, I'm fascinated with how deep you get into the nightmare five, like development, because I remember when it was, you would read about how like, Peter Jackson is sleeping on Michael Lucas couch and skip inspector did who would to my favorite writers of all time. They were writing drafts. You would hear about all these.

like discarded drafts talked about the skip inspector one oh man oh yeah i talked about the skip inspector one i talked about the west craven's original draft for part three with bruce weidner which is bonkers um but yeah i forgot about bruce wagner holy shit dude it's nuts and it's very much a first draft who knows what it would have become same thing with the skip inspector draft

But it's so crazy because the Skip Inspector draft is like a Splatterpunk draft. And I almost talked to them about it. I actually have an interview with John Skip later on because he has a new Splatterpunk collection that just came out. Yeah, I'm so excited. Love the bridge, by the way. Oh my God. That's one of my favorite books of all time. I have been trying to make that thing for decades now and the rights keep changing. I think there is someone, talk to Skip about this.

um actually no it was specter back in the day because i kept like hounding him to do it and he was saying that someone in town keeps buying up the rights that they don't really know who it is it's like a company that owns a company that owns a shell company specifically because they don't want the movie made because it's like Anti-environmentalist you know like It or it's Anti-environmentalist? Yeah I always thought it was pro That's what I thought

But they were talking about how there seemed to be someone out there that did not want this movie to get made. And there was a point, I don't even know if I've ever talked about this, where New Line... had gotten the rights to it and they were going to turn it into like a hundred million dollar movie. It was back in like 2003, 2004. And.

like I was sitting there going, well, fuck, I haven't made my first movie yet. So there's no way that I'm going to be able to get to do a hundred million dollar movie. And then it just died. It just went away. And that's a book that I'm shocked that more people don't. talk about because that that book is amazing anyway sorry like the best anthony hickox movie never made yeah for absolutely

Also, real quick, Joe, I have seen every single wrong turn sequel, hoping they'll all be as good as two. And you'll be hearing from my lawyer. I kid, but I feel like, should I Venmo you or something? It's not your fault that three through.

How many did they make? Eight? No, I get blamed for it too. If you didn't do your, if you, because you did your job, they made more of them and they should have just stopped with two. I'm like, of course they're not going to stop with two. That's the thing with all of these franchises that like, as much as we as fans. you know go like keep going or stop right there like if the movie makes money like there was somebody I am

I was in line. I went to go see the Kill Bill movies yesterday at the Vista. Oh, I did too. Which we, Oh, I was going to say like, you were there too. Holy shit. Um, did you see it in 70 millimeter? no just a regular it was fucking awesome like both both versions it was great to see it on the big screen four and a half hours went by like that adam just rolled his eyes like no fucking way

But there were these people behind me who brought their, I think the kid was like 11 years old or something, that brought their kid to go see Kill Bill 1 and 2. And part of me was like, oh, that's great. The other part's like. is this the right movie for them? And someone else was asking them and they were like, Oh no, it's fine. It's fine. He went to go see FNAF two or whatever. He went to go see five nights at Freddy's two. And the, and I,

somebody said like well what did you think because no one cares about what the parents think about the movie they want to know what the kid thinks and the kids like sucked like just flat out so i'm like oh and they're like the guy was like oh okay he's like can't wait for the next one speaking of rants

uh and while we're on the topic of kill bill uh at the time we're recording this oh no it's december 8th are we talking about this yeah we got to talk about it because it's i was trying to avoid it i know but it's bothering me um so Look, I wouldn't say we're friends with Quentin. We know him. He's been nothing but nice to us, generous, kind. He's always just been such a good guy.

The recently it came out cause he was on a podcast and he kind of went after Paul Dano and Matthew Lillard and Luke Wilson. Owen Wilson. Owen Wilson. Yeah. Was it Oh, no, I thought it was. No, it was Owen. Yeah. One of the Wilsons. And it's like, man, dude, you won. You're the king. Everyone loves you. That's the disarming thing about Brett's podcast. Why would you do that? And it has to just be he was having a good deal.

Started talking shit. It's kind of forgot he was on. Yeah, and then people clip it and run with it and i don't take the context i haven't gone back and listened to the whole thing or whatever so i could be guilty of that as well but it just it's like i don't know paul dano personally or either wilson

but i know matt lillard and the dude is a saint like and he responded over the weekend he was like how hurtful man like a guy that we all look up to why do you got to do that like i it's it's the sort of thing where it's like you should know by now

if it's like behind closed doors thing, say what you want, you know, like, but this goes back to when Chuck was like, I don't want to be recorded. I want final approval. Like these days, look, everyone has been burned before people get misquoted all the time. i don't think it's malicious or intentional but now with podcasts and stuff people will clip something and then like the title they give it a lot of people don't even

Watch it. You just go off the title and the other comments. And so it does suck because you have to, your guard has to be up. You've got to try to look out for yourself. If you don't have a publicist, who's going to be the bad guy for you. You just don't want to get wrapped up in shit because. you got comfortable, started talking, and now something you said is being taken the wrong way.

But I'm sure, like, when Chuck asks you, like, are we recording this? Once he got, like, your vibe and saw, like, you're not about that, I'm sure he is much more willing to open up. We get shit on this show. from people, they're like, you guys are so nice to everybody. You guys are so like, yeah. Like, look, we've 600 and what is this? 658 episodes. Like, if I'm going to be honest, have I liked every movie by every guest we've ever had? Fucking no. But I like them.

And I know what it takes to make a movie. It might have been one person you didn't like. There's one. One that I didn't like. And it's just, like, I don't know. Like, if you just want... to hear shit there's a whole internet for that twitter twitter is only that go there and talk all the shit you want to the bots and the fucking other assholes graveyard it's a don't don't tell people to go

on Twitter for anything, Adam. I just have to say. But no, you're right. And honestly, like, look, the views and opinions of Lowell Greenblatt do not necessarily reflect those of the movie Crypt. I don't know Quentin Tarantino either. I love him as a director. To me, he just seems like kind of a...

cartoon character. Like, he's just sort of like this spry Hollywood Loki who just sort of lives in his boyhood fantasies, which allows him to make great movies, which we love. Great movies. Great movies. And everyone has an opinion. Those are just his opinions. I wish he didn't say it publicly. I think it's kind of wrong to say it publicly. But at the same time, I don't think anyone, I don't know if anyone has ever pulled Quentin Tarantino aside in his life and said,

Please don't do this. Or maybe this isn't a good idea. If anything, I could imagine certain people egging him on for his baser...

instincts. But that's what you expect. Of course. Oh my God. Of course it was. Of course it was Brad Easton Alice. But it feels like when two of your friends who you really like and respect are in a fight and you're like oh man please don't do this don't fight you guys are both really great people please don't do this yeah but you know what was going provoked and why matthew lillard why go after him like

It seemed like it seemed like Tarantino was on a kick for like all of those actors who were, you know, mid to late nineties into the two thousands who he didn't work with at the time. The time also, I wasn't there. I don't know.

It just hurt. I love everyone involved. Exactly. Why? Why, guys? Paul Dano's not doing anything. Matthew Lillard is enjoying a comeback. You can't see me just... gesticulating with my hands but it's just like why quentin just say it off the air yeah also everyone relax they're good actors the proof is out there and like there will be blood is suddenly not a worse movie

you know or the descendants my god he's so good in the descendants i know but if like you suddenly saw like steven spielberg in the middle of a podcast take a shot at like seth green being like what what like what is this quentin's always been known to be a loud mouth and sure it's not that surprising when you're i don't know and i'm i'm gonna probably get clipped and get shit for saying this but like

I've never felt the need to ever punch down at anybody because I don't need to. I just worry about what I'm doing. I got enough work to do on myself and my own work. Like I don't need to be shitting on other people publicly. Like, I don't know. It just, sorry, because we were talking about this. It came up. We can, we can move on.

I get it. And by the way, I will, I will ask Stephen Hopkins to talk to you guys. He is amazing. I don't want, I would love to talk to him. He's a great conversation. And I know he has William Goldman stories that I believe you can coax out.

him so please uh go forth well going back to all the people you spoke to there were obviously some they they weren't available within the time frame you were doing this um at what point was something like this Do you as an author call it done? Because I would imagine when you're exploring a series like this, where there are forget just the people who were physically involved with making it. There's so many other notable.

artists writers all these people out there who were inspired by it who know so much about it who would probably love to talk about it how do you say all right this is it's it's done And I'm going to release this to the world, even though I know if I wait six more months, I could probably get these other three people. You have to ask my wife because she has a running joke with me.

Oh, it's done? Is it the last interview? It's the last interview today, right? Is this the last one? Are we pencils down? I cannot say no. And I kept getting more interviews. But I will say I felt like at a certain point... based on the pool that i was getting you know like this many actors like this director this editor oh my god patrick lussier but you know um i'm like okay i've gotten uh

I've sort of gotten a great picture to compliment the analysis and appreciation that I call that I've written about it. So I think I'm good on that front. I mean, we would absolutely stop the presses if... say robert england or heather or rachel or even bob shea were like yeah i'll talk to you but i sort of had my you know my feelers out and i thought okay we've This person covers this quadrant of this film and so on and so forth. So I believe we have like a final...

But believe me, I thought I was going to be done a lot earlier than I was because my editor kept throwing out possible names. And the casting director, Annette Benson. who cast a bunch of movies. She's a legend. She discovered Robert Englund, Johnny Depp, Patricia Arquette, all of them. She initially agreed to be interviewed, but she changed her mind because she's just shy. But she kept sending me people. She's like, oh, have you talked to so-and-so? And she's like, because my...

phone numbers in my email signature. So she just texted me. She's like, have you heard from Mimi Craven? I'm like...

No, I don't know how to reach her. And then five minutes later, Mimi Craven texts me like, hey, are you writing a book? I'm like, she's like my guardian angel through the whole thing, and she's not even in the book. But she knew that what I had was... something special, at least to her, and she just kept throwing people at me, and I'm like, okay, yes, this person, this person, and then it was just scheduling, but I'm proud to say I got at least one person from every movie, so.

It's interesting because with a movie, everybody who's ever directed a movie will tell you no movie's ever finished. It's abandoned. but there's like a finite amount of resources and money. Whoever is providing that money needs that money back and there needs to be a release. Like there, you can't just keep.

unless you're the one financing it. And sure, there's some things you can do where it's like, fuck it. I'll just, I'll call in favors. I'll do whatever to add this other stuff that I need. But it's with a book. it's you and a laptop or you and a pad of paper. If, if we're, if you still do that. And. it it's it just seems like the temptation because the the only book i've ever written was i survivor which was like the tie-in book with hatchet four because

Perry Shen's character is promoting it. And so it's like, oh, wouldn't it be cool if the book existed and fans could read it? And that got delayed almost like five months, I think, because right when we were going to publish it. I was like, no, it can be better. And I literally threw out all my stuff and rewrote it. Joe Netter had written it with me and.

i i'm just scared if i was ever to write a book i would just keep doing that i would keep because like joe have you ever put out a movie where you were like perfect exactly the way i wanted it everyone i've never done that i'm always like oh man oh fuck if only we could have ripped from your bloody fucking fingertips but with a book like especially unless you're being commissioned to write it and there's a due date

it's up to you when you call that thing finished look at joe hill with king sorrow 10 years that's crazy i didn't realize that i i want to know um because once you especially like in documentary forms you're going into whether your subject is a person a franchise of a movie a particular subject i've heard other documentaries and talk about this how they almost encourage

That their mindset and their perception on what that thing is will change and evolve by the time that they're finished with it. If there was one movie of the series that you have a completely different opinion on, good or bad. what would that be? What film would that be? I think five. Interesting. Five is, it gets a lot of shit.

But I was surprised how much I was able to write about it. Not just from people I interviewed, but just how much was there. Because I talk about it in the book, but like, you know, 1988 was like... We got Friday 7, we got Nightmare 4, we got Child's Play, it's cocaine and rainbows everywhere. And 1989, for a lot of these franchises, was kind of the hangover where they released the entries that...

people are still fans of, but maybe don't hold in as high regard. And I still think dream trial is better than all of them. Do not tell Kane Hodder. I said that. But but no, it's like it's there's something so crazy about like, OK.

We're going to make a Nightmare on Elm Street film where Freddy's going after a baby, and who's going to ride it? Let's get the Splatterpunk guys in here. Like, even at that... time there was still an attempt to make something at least visually interesting and they cared about continuity they brought actors back there's just and even if it's one where it's like you know people might dismiss it i hope people will at least like read the book and see more more in it like there's you know it

People talk about, oh, it's the pro-choice nightmare on Elm Street. It's the pro-life nightmare on Elm Street. It's kind of neither and both. I never saw it like that. What you bring to it. is yeah you're gonna view it my my big issue with five wasn't even the director because i was excited about the director and you would see like all the stills that they had where like freddie's upside down and stuff like that like in the labyrinth scenes

It was the fact that Kevin Yeager didn't come back. And when David came back to do the makeup, there was, I guess it was, it was like here, this is perfect example. It's the moment when kiss took off their makeup because the MTV version of Freddie. was this fucking cool Kevin Yeager design. He looked like a rock star. His skin would look like, you know, pizza. Whereas this one, he looked like an old man again.

And he wasn't the strong Freddie. I think it was also a comfort factor because I feel like they could put it on faster because it just looks like he's, it's still good, but compared to the other makeups, it looks like, you know, he can get it on and off before he's done.

the story and i think that's a major factor in it but but yeah let's let's get into the the darker stuff with nightmare and elm street because uh i think one of I don't know. To me, it's always been fascinating how... Freddy Krueger was a child killer slash molester. Now in the original draft, well, correct me if I'm wrong, he was a child molester and it was just outright said, but then they kind of, it's more implied after that.

And yet there's action figures of this guy. I own most of them probably t-shirts, plush dolls. And it seems like everyone just sort of forgets that.

and i think with the dream child it brought that around again front and center was a dream child where there was the scene in the sanitarium where yeah none was raped but spinning around robert robert england's eyes which like I remember like that scene sticks out to me just as much as any of the other iconic ones because it was like oh my god they're talking about rape like

whether like Jason was never going to rape anybody. Michael Myers wasn't going to rape any like there. And I don't know this, this could be my own ship, but like the amount of, of scripts I've. passed on that I've been offered because it was gratuitous rape or animal violence. And I'm not judging other people or whatever. I'm glad whatever it is that people want to make, they should make, it should exist.

unless it's like hurting people. But I just think with hurting animals, hurting kids, raping women, like, I don't know. To me, there's a sense of fun to slasher movies. It's not real. Hopefully they're scary at times, but it's, it's a, it's a rush. It's, it's a charge and we love the villains, but it's not real. Once you start doing that, it's hard to, um,

suspend your disbelief in the same way. And do you think, you know, as much as we talked about the very... not well-received remake might have something to do with why there isn't a bigger hurrah around the 40th anniversary of this in like one of the most important franchises ever made but it could it also be because people are

becoming as a whole a little bit more sensitive to that stuff and that's what freddy is i don't think so because also remember like the bastard son of a hundred maniacs like Chuck Russell and Frank Darabont came up with that in DreamWorks. It's just the nun telling you the story. You don't even see the rape happening in 5. It's just implied. But it's not compared to... you know, some of the movies that you guys came up with making are

a lot nastier than uh what was coming out back then i don't think that really has anything to do with it um well see i was a kid though when i saw that stuff and i didn't even think that like i didn't it wasn't so much later kind of went over my head And it was really what I met on the remake where I really kind of hunkered down on that a little bit more. Cause I was like, no one liners from Freddie. He should look like an actual.

Oh, like welcome to my world, bitch. Like what that was in Freddie versus Jason, which he says like three times in the remake. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I think with the remake though, from what I understand from people who were on the set, they knew then. Something was wrong because like it was the producers like the director was never really able to do what he wanted Now we're gonna do this wait wait. No, we're gonna go in a different direction now We're gonna reshoot that we're gonna do this but

I had said in my pitch, I'm like, Freddie should be innocent. And they got the wrong guy. And that's why he's doing this. And when I saw the trailer and the Molotov cocktails are coming into the furnace room.

and jackie earl haley correct someone correct me if i'm wrong doesn't he say in the trailer i didn't do it i didn't do it i didn't do anything yeah and i was like now this could all make sense and you could root for the guy like because we all root for the slasher and then we love seeing them get their comeuppance in the end but uh

I don't know. I was like, this is the way to bring Freddie back. Make it that they, these parents did this horrible thing to this guy. And now that's why he's doing this, but make him. the boogeyman, make him the monster under the bed, the monster in the closet, the monster in your bed with you, like real stuff that real people would freak out about. Don't make him a wisecracking goblin.

um and obviously i didn't get it they were like because i was showing them actual pictures of burns and they were like too dark um which bullet dodged i guess but still uh i i just that's that's the one movie maniac where when I'm looking at my toys, I'm like, there's a, there's a really bad guy right now.

And then you meet Robert and you're like, this guy's the nicest fucking cool. Which is usually what happens. Usually what happens. But, you know, it just that's not only is Freddie the most creative of all. the slasher villains and like the greatest concept and all of it but he's also the most despicable of all of i i have a i have a quick question for you going back to five um

Recently in LA, they had a screening of, because speaking of Tarantino, he's got the Video Archives Video Club, which is where they screen 16mm and VHS movies at the Vista. And they screened a copy of the VHS version of nightmare five, which is the version. Yeah. The unrated cut that has never come out in any form ever since. And it sold out within minutes. I was like, Nightmare 5? The 4K has the restored. It's only like 90 seconds, but it makes a difference.

That was crazy also. Like when I got that in the mail, I'm like, well, I know this movie like front to back. How much could it really? Oh my God. Like, yeah, you can see it right now. Check it out. Yeah. I know. I thought it was only on VHS. Cause I was going to ask like why, I wonder why it's taken so long. Like, especially like in the advent of that box, that DVD box set that came out years ago, the one where it's like, it even had the menu. I still have it.

That day that I got that was one of the greatest weekends. My brothers and I just devoured that whole fucking box set. And, you know, like all the ancillary stuff. And I remember going, where is all that extra stuff from five? It was so curious why they didn't have that stuff on there. But anyway, I digress. It's not long, but you got it. You got to see it, Joe.

It's crazy. And honestly, I've never really said this about, like, watching excised footage, but I can see, like, yeah, maybe you shouldn't have put so much of that in. Like, for audiences in the 80s, I'll eat it up. But, like, oh, yeah, this totally... crosses a line. But that was also at the time when the MPAA was really cracking down on all horror movies because Jack Valenti had a thing against them and, you know...

If you had a franchise, especially one that was that lucrative and coming out within like less than a year of the release, it's like what Saw had to go through for a while. It's like you had to kowtow to the MPAA if you wanted to get that R rating to get the movie out. And make no mistake, I will never forgive them for what they did to John Carl Buchler on Friday 7. I know. Yeah. Well, at least Friday 7 was in theaters because Hatchet 2 got pulled. Well, because we went.

unrated but thankfully terrifier 2 rectified that 12 years later oh yeah and now hopefully the game will be a little different i think streaming had a lot to do with that Because why is the MPAA being so hard on theaters when theaters were suffering and yet on streaming, no rules, basically. You can do whatever you want. Okay, so are you doing an audio? version of this book. He's asking for me.

Yes, there is an audio book, I believe. I don't know if it is being recorded now, but we have someone who actually found, like, who came to us who was like, this is really cool, I want to do it. And we're like... My God, I actually have an MP3 of someone reading part of the chapter for words that I wrote, which of all the mind blowing things about this, that's like up there with holy shit.

But people can get the book wherever books are sold. Yeah. Amazon will be your best bet, but also Barnes and Noble bookshop.org. And if you're in Brooklyn, New York, the twisted spine, the. One of the nation's only horror-only bookstores has a bunch of copies. Oh, man. If Dark Delves was around now, that's like the... No. Oh, such a bummer. God damn it. I have one more question on my end. Knowing how, how exhaustive you went into the making of the series, you know, like obviously.

you love the nightmare series, which is great because then now, hopefully even people with a cursory interest in the series, we'll see that like. If you have a compendium like that, it must mean something to you and therefore hopefully mean something to someone else.

Are there any other franchises, movies? Maybe you're working on something next. Is there another target that you have for the Lowell treatment? I love that. I have. ideas for uh other books but they would be biographies of people who are living and i don't want to just do something unauthorized, I would want their participation, which is another thought. But in terms of franchises, not really. I mean, maybe...

I'm really curious to read a book about the Walking Dead TV show when the dust clears on that. But... Oh, there's so many fucking stories, dude. Holy shit. I know. The body's got to rot a little while. But no, I'm just sort of keeping my ear open. I'm enjoying this. Yeah, I'm ruminating. But like, remember, I can't believe that I actually wrote a book. So I look at it now on my shelf and I'm still amazed. So I need the honeymoon period to end a little bit. I need to stop feeling. No, no, no, no.

No, no, no. Enjoy it for every fucking moment, dude. While you're on this high, I think it's smart to be like, all right, now what am I going to do next? Because after the high, inevitably, no matter what it is, it could be... Halloween is over. The movie I really wanted to see, I just saw it. There's like this kind of letdown afterwards, like the come down from it. And so it's great to be like, now I'm on to this.

Uh, which speaking of moving on to new things, it's time for everybody's second favorite part of the movie crypt.

All right. So we put it out there on Patreon that you were going to be coming on. And these are the questions we got. First one is from Dan. Hey folks. So how would you continue the series today? Movie film and who plays Freddie? we'll let you go first you know i i never used to think about this but then i heard someone say richard break and i'm like oh there it is um oh fuck you know

Yeah, right. But you could also skew a little bit younger and throw people off a little bit. I'm really curious to see what Jack Quaid could do with it. I think he's fantastic in everything I've seen him in. um and i'd want to i'd still want to see a movie and not an animated movie like keep it as a film there was something about like that that was the reason why i was so excited about sam bayer as the director because you look at his music videos

And he had the ability to create these surrealistic images that you went, that makes total sense to get that kind of guy. And one of the reasons, like having revisited a bunch of the nightmare movies for Halloween. there's just something exciting about that, that very thin line between reality and dreams where sometimes you're like, I don't know if the person's in a dream or not. Like if you do an animation, it's all a dream.

You lose. There was something special about, you know, because the audience knows what 24 frames looks like and someone walking down a hallway in a high school. It's only when you start going, why does the hall monitor have the green and red sweater? Why is that corpse getting dragged along in the background? julius caesar yeah exactly it's those little tells that make it part of the fun and i think that's part of the reason why like for me the the

the remake didn't work was it didn't play with that enough or it like seriously like skewed that, that viewpoint. Whereas at least in the first four, there were plenty of moments where I really didn't know.

whether or not they were sleeping or not and that's what made it scary i would pray that if it ever does come back and i'm sure it will uh it will probably on netflix uh it will likely be i hope it's going to be live action because i think that's where the freddy's power is best served there if i could do it i would

Really, probably go back to the same pitch I gave Platinum Dunes when I went in and make it serious. Freddy's not a wisecracker. The parents got the wrong guy. Freddy looks like... I know the... term is burn survivor not burn victim but in freddy's case yeah burn victim because he died from it um like no eyelids because they're burned all do that part of why he doesn't sleep but like i had

in the research like all of these horrific pictures that i wish i had never seen um and i would want because because it's just a wishlist thing I would want a 35 to $40 million budget for that remake. And I would want Walton Goggins. All things that will never happen. but that movie but i mean and still practical effects with digital just used to to

you know, enhance. May I throw a name in please? You know who I like? It's funny. Cause I just watched a movie that this actor was in a couple of times this year. And every time I was watching it, I kept thinking. Fuck a great Freddy Krueger. It might be an obvious choice. Ben Mendelsohn. Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, like easy, easy. Wait, did you watch Freaky Tales? You did, right? Yeah. Like.

Oh, one of my favorites of the year. Oh my God. I'm shocked that like, cause all the top 10 lists are coming out now. And it, again, it came out too early in the year. Way too early. Kind of got lost. It'll be, it'll probably be number three on my top, top 10 list this year. but ben mendelson who is known to play bad guys before like it's not it's not his first bad guy rodeo but there's something bad guy he's a good fucking bad guy and uh you know i remember when when

The first nightmare came out. I was only familiar with Robert England as, um, uh, what's his name from envy. yeah when he played the the nice alien you know and you were just like oh he's so sweet and his little curls and everything and then you see him and you're like oh jesus christ he's a he's terrifying well speaking of robert england

This next question is from Ken. Robert England comes across like a consummate professional and a real mensch. What was the most surprising thing you learned about him and what is his legacy for future performers? That was.

really interesting to discover because it was kind of hiding in plain sight you know you know this that he loves film in all its forms he even he loves the act of filmmaking and doing his thing and being on a set and as I'm re-watching these movies for the book I notice so in most movies

He'll get his introduction shot, especially towards the end. You have the hero shot. And then he pulls focus. It's like, okay, everybody, everybody, eyes on me. And then he'll start playing with the world around him. Like he's calling attention to the production design and the sets and the art. as if he's saying, let me be your tour guide in this crazy Fantasia. I mean, I know points where he does it in four and five, a lot of six, but he knows that you're showing up.

for him because his name's above the title but he wants to give his flowers to everything happening around him and I just think that's that's incredible and you know I wish other horror movie villains would do that because even if you are showing up just for the villain there's so much else happening there are so many i mean i love all the casts of these movies

But there's, it's a lot on screen. It's more than just one person. And I think he knew that instinctively. You know what is sort of sad, but it's just sort of inevitable. Like when. we were growing up like our horror cinematic heroes were Robert England, Tony Todd, Kane Hodder, these guys who played these just iconic characters and.

If I'm being honest, when I was 10 years old, did I have the same love for Bela Lugosi or Lon Chaney Jr.? No. I knew those movies, but they were the old movies that played on TV. They felt like our parents' movies. We do a thing with Patreon where we... Still, like once a month, we do live commentaries to a movie called Summer Party Massacre. Not always that movie, obviously. That's just the name of the event each month. And there was...

I think it was when it was like the 10th anniversary of hatchet three. We did that. And I, we do these 30 minute pre-shows that are usually quite funny. And. It ended with this girl doing a review. Oh no, I'm sorry. It was digging up the marrow where she was like, this movie is like, I don't recommend this. It's really bad. So of course I included it.

one of the hatchet movies i only did bad reviews for 30 minutes too i i again maybe i should care more i just fuck off everyone um but this she says and then there's this guy who shows up in a cane hoarder, whoever that is. And I'm like, how do you not, you're, you're such a horror fan that you do like a channel reviewing movies, but you've never even heard of this guy. Like, but. That was me when I was a teenager. Like I didn't, I love the things now.

you know and i but i think as you grow you eventually you're going to want to go see everything that came before it you're going to want to know who those people are you're going to hear them spoken about you know like it's just I don't know. But Robert Englund, I think because he's so associated with Freddie, because that's his face. That's his voice. Tony was like that with Candyman as well. Kane, I mean, he was the...

Seventh person to play Jason at that point, which is different. Yes, he played him four times but it's a hockey mask. So I don't know if people necessarily, as many had the same attachment. It's weird to say, cause of course we all did, but you never know. But with Robert, like this guy, like. He is an actor's actor. He loves, he wants to know what lights you're using. The names that he remembers, the memory on him, especially at his age. I can't tell you what I...

what I ate for dinner last night. I honestly have no idea. I'm trying to think of it. He remembers everything. I don't know how he does it. Yeah. He loves it. And I just, what a great actor to have on your set. uh hatchet he was there night one and it sets a tone with everyone else like he's just such a pro he's so kind he's so he's just

I just wish he would be around for 600 more years. So everybody would get the chance to work with him. This is from Saturday night. Two questions. First question compared to some other franchises, such as stranger thing, stranger things, a franchise. Oh yeah. Series. Yeah. But it's still a franchise though. VHS. Hell house. Yeah. Hell house LLC. Okay. Hell razor.

I'm just not familiar with them. Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Halloween, and even the Hatchet films, Elm Street seemed to come and go pretty quick, lasting only seven years. From your research, what are your thoughts about exactly why we seem to have a quick Freddy burnout compared to other franchises?

Note, I have always considered New Nightmare to be a separate Craven film, not connected to Elm Street directly, but inspired by it. And by Texas Chainsaw Massacre, not Turner Classic Movies, of course. oh the second question just do you believe in life after love i can feel something inside me say i really don't think you're strong enough no um you don't need to find three tammy's like Love can happen for anyone. But...

Yeah, I mean, we kind of talked about it, Robert Englund, you know? Like, well, the series started late, like, sort of towards the tail end of the slasher craze. But also, it's not a guy in a mask. It's someone... like doing intense makeup, uh, who expects to be, you know, compensated. And he's, I mean, he's leaving it all on the screen in those movies. He's not phoning.

anything in even when it gets later on in the series and it just makes sense that you know they were kind of burnt out after five and they wanted to give him a swan song and really i do think

Six was intended to be the last one, like from everything I've read about it. And even just the movie itself, like how they finally kill him. It was like meant to be the end. So. you know and also credit to new line for knowing when to pack up your shit and go home yeah you know yeah which is usually determined by how much money things are making and then we'll be like all right it's done i mean

Friday the 13th, probably four was going to be it. And then it made a lot of money and it was like, well, no, no, no. Get the porn guy in there. Get him in there. Wait. Oh, sorry. Go on. I have a question. Hell House. Yeah. Should I see those? Like, I don't, I think I'm.

Once you said LLC I'm like, oh, I've seen that thumbnail on things There's a few of them, right? Should I check it out? Yes Okay, I will all right so uh as we start winding down here um first can you and you can just say no if you don't want to but can you hint at maybe like one or two of

the other like biographies you're, you're interested in doing, or do you not want to say yet? I don't quite want to say, I can say one of them is about a band that people love, but haven't really written about dangerous toys. White Lion. I will be the first one to buy that book. It's not Pretty Boy Floyd, but if the Bangtango book comes out, would it be called Bangtora Tora?

Tora Tora Tora? No, just Tora Tora. Technically the first band I ever saw because they played before Dangerous Toys and L.A. Guns in November 1989 at the Orpheum Theater. Did they bomb? no but they opened with guilty and it was fucking great if i ever write a pretty boy floyd book i will dedicate it to you adam i have such a sad pretty boy floyd story I was never into them, which is weird because I'm so into hair metal, but they're like docking. I got to be honest other than dream warriors

I don't listen to them often. And I don't know why they're great, but I just, for some reason, but pretty boy Floyd was opening for whoever I was actually there to see. And. the audience just was not that into it and i swear the the singer i'm sorry i don't know his name actually at one point said you know we just got back from japan and we're huge there and i was like did you really just say that oh man yeah leather boys with electric toys that was one of their songs right

Anyone? Silence. You're the one who would say yes. Look, I will stand up for any hair metal band. Like I said, if you do write a book on Pretty Boy Floyd, you have a guaranteed purchase right here because I need to know more about them because I don't know enough. It's interesting you say that, though. Do you know that you are thanked in my book, Adam? Oh, yes, I did see that at the end. Thank you for that.

Do you know why? No. Yeah. And I want to know why, too. I figured because Felisa was thanked as well. And I'm like, oh, maybe I was like standing with her or something. No, I don't remember. No, Felicia's thing, because when I started interviewing people for Macabre Daily, she was one of the first, like, I've had good interviews, but she was, like, really treated me like I was the professional that I acted like I was.

the lines that she has at conventions when really sleepaway camp is in sleepaway camp isn't halloween or nightmare on elm street or saw or something but of course we all love it But yet it's because she is such a class act at those conventions. She's so there for everybody. She loves the fans. She's actually coming over for dinner Thursday night. Nice. Yeah. Tell her I said hi, even if she doesn't remember me. But this is why you are a thing.

I interviewed you a while ago for the Hatchet Steelbook for a movie collection that came out from Macabre Daily. And it was a good interview, and it was like morning in... la or wherever you were oh i got a story about this go ahead and i i just um at the end i just couldn't help myself i was like

Hey, you know, I know, like, you're big on, like, motivation and, like, you know, giving advice where necessary. But I'm starting to write this Nightmare on Elm Street book. Like, but I've never written a book before. And, like, I know I want to do it.

it but like i kind of don't know how do you have anything any wisdom to impart and i swear to god like you were active the whole interview but it was like the george patten flag descended behind you and you gave me a pep talk because that was the only part of the interview i cared about i remember this now um so oh wow um i'm sorry with the

With that steelbook, I was not into it. I didn't think they should have done it. I didn't like it. I loved the bonus disc because I made those two special features. But I did that because... I realized there was going to be no reason to buy it unless there was something really good new that you could only get on it. And so I'm like, let me do this. But I didn't.

like i this is weird to be doing publicly on a podcast it's just obviously as people know there hasn't been another hatchet movie for uh eight years now nine years because i don't want to work with them anymore um meaning the distributor so um that could always change we'll see but um i only agreed to i think four interviews and i did one post on it

um and that was it and the cast didn't promote it i didn't i think it did well but like i i just the box set that i know that fans of hatchet want is a is the actual box set with individual discs not stacked on top of each other with new transfers and and you know what's hard is everyone always expects new stuff are we gonna see all the kills we didn't see

no you saw them all we didn't who else could we have killed everyone dies and all the movies there's there's no other trash if you want but jesus well there is one thing that was shot that has not been put in one of the movies yet i don't it could be 20 years before we do it but but other than that um you know anyway but i but i remember that now and um you know we get that all the time from people like you know i really want to make a movie but i've never done it before

everyone who's ever made a movie had never made a movie before their first one so just do it like you just got to do it and especially i think when you said nightmare on elm street i'm like i want to read that yes do it you did you said that to me i i have it recorded yeah but and yeah so uh and here we are and life is ridiculous and joe i love you too i have a 4k of mayhem i promise all right fine that works man that's my favorite movie years

It's hard to go between that and Everly, but Mayhem is fucking great. You don't have to blow me here. I thought you said you were going to give me 20 bucks. All right, take that back. No Venmo-ing. Well, dude, congratulations on the movie. Seriously, like I've got the movie, the book. It's no small feat, but especially when you have a movie, there's so many different components to it. There's so many people involved with a book.

other than your editor and obviously your publisher, you are the show runner. You are the director. You are the writer. You are the producer. And for a book like this to come out, that is just like, and the book's out now, correct? Yep. Okay. So for everybody who. didn't get what they wanted for Christmas and got fucked over, go to Amazon right now, return the fucking bullshit socks that you got. And you know what? Oh man, new socks are great though.

They're really great. Yeah. But you know what? And when you're, when you're done, fine, take the one pair and return the rest. Amazon doesn't give a shit and go out and get the book because it is totally fucking worth it. Especially if you're a horror movie fan, if you're a nightmare completion.

if you just want to hear some new anecdotes from from directors and everyone below the line and people that you don't always get to hear from who were very very involved uh you will definitely dig this book one more question what was it like the first time you held it? And was it a hard cover or a soft cover? And did it make you hard or soft? It was. I did get a feeling. Oh, what a feeling. I got the proof in the mail.

And just my wife took a video and I just held it in my hand and it still had that watermark, like, you know, not for sale, but it was just like, oh my God, it's, it's real. Wait, that's the galleys version, right? Yes. Dude, you had galleys. I know. I know, dude.

I'm telling you, man, the honeymoon period is absolutely... It's still going strong. I mean, Fangoria put it in their holiday gift guide. And I didn't even have to blackmail Phil Nobile Jr. So... funny we have to yes all the time i got plenty of dick pics on that guy yeah i don't know we have all our phil dick don't we all i'm kidding love you i love that fangoria uh has phil is phil

you you know he loves it and like he's phil's always just been a class act which is which is uh it's just great for that brand because when tony timpon was going to be stepping down it was like well now what and then There was that whole fiasco.

that happened briefly which wasn't really fangoria it was more of the we don't need to get into any of that and finally the last question we always ask everybody what was the point in the journey of this or just in your life so far where was so bad and up that you could have given up

And how did you not quit? You know what? It wasn't actually in, I'll tell you, but it wasn't in the writing of this book. Writing the book was one of the best experiences I've ever had. It was more fun than it had any right to be. But for me, my low point was the pandemic.

Uh, and I will say on paper, I did not have as bad a pandemic as a lot of other people. No one close to me passed away. I didn't get sick. I didn't even get COVID until last year. Finally. Same. But like, I. yeah Sebastian Bach gave me COVID man sorry if that's how you're gonna get it I mean but um but yeah it was just yeah I I had a job that I loved

that i was let go from and i got two other jobs and the positions were eliminated because of covid so i was like living like a bored retiree which like i said luckier than a lot of other people my wife's a teacher so she was remote teaching every morning when I woke up and it sounded like the end of Prince of Darkness where I'm just hearing like a radio signal from another dimension that signals the world. But it was just like, I'm like, I don't, I don't know.

what universe i stepped into and that's when macabre daily stepped in and said you know hey um we're looking to start writing for a website is anyone interested and i was unemployed and I didn't have anything to do. So I thought I'd get my creative juices flowing. And five years later, I'm on the movie crypt talking about my book. So. Well, it only goes up from here.

So you're on your way. But really just anyone who thinks like it's the end, it's never the end. And if you just have like a place to focus and put all of that shit, like. You will come things you cannot imagine will happen. So just cheesy as it sounds, just hang on. Great advice. And don't don't give up. and never fall asleep yeah oh look at that oh look at that

All right. So everybody definitely, definitely, definitely check out the book. Again, it is called Nightmare Autopsis, A Return to Elm Street by Lowell Greenblatt. Lowell, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for. the book. I've read most of it at this point. There's some chapters in the middle. I'm anticipating the audio book.

prepared for the, this, this conversation, but I'm going to be finishing that over Christmas. So, and so should all of you, except this is going to come out next year. So if you, like Joe said, if you didn't get the Christmas present, you really wanted traded in for this. All right. We will see all of you next week with another edition of the movie crypt with Adam and Joe.

It's the Movie Crabs. Marketing is hard. But I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention?

You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre-produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads. Go to libsynads.com. That's L-I-B-S-Y-N ads.com today.