The Movie Cribbs! And welcome to another edition of The Movie Crypt. I'm Adam Green. I'm Joe Lynch. We are recording this episode on Thursday, May 29th, 2025. And if all goes as planned, this episode is going to premiere on Monday. June 16th, 2025, which means that our guest's latest film, Dangerous Animals, is in theaters right now.
Now. And by right now, we mean go to the theater and see it. I know you want to go see Lilo and Stitch again. I bet a lot of the audience has already seen it. I hope so. Because this is a... Perfect paperback summer movie. This is the kind of movie that everyone goes to or used to go to see ad nauseum when it was like, oh my God, I got to get out of the sun. I want the, you know, the good AC. I want to see a good old fashioned like shark movie.
But it's not. There's a little bit more to it that you get. Actually, there's a lot more to it. And having been fans of Sean since The Loved Ones, which we saw in Fright Fest. And obviously we talked like a lot about The Devil's Candy, which we had Ethan Embry on in the past.
Ethan Emery on, um, God, I think it was like episode one 98. Um, this was a long remember the episode number. This was a long remember we had on last week. Well, you do a lot of fucking classic crypt reading and you remember those fucking things, but you know, Sean.
was one of those directors that every time you see a movie from him you get excited for like what's next and this has been 10 years since we've seen you know and we talk about that obviously but it's been 10 years since the devil's candy and I would say this is... See, sometimes you always say, like...
You know, you think like saying something is commercial is like selling out. No, it's diluting or whatever. This is a movie a lot of people are going to like. That's a good thing. Because this has a lot of commerciality, if you will. It makes total.
No. app at all and uh and yeah this is a this is definitely one of my favorite conversations that we've had you know in a while yeah uh i think one of the great things about this podcast and why people have listened to it for over 12 years now is because it's filmmaker on filmmaker on filmmaker sometimes on another filmmaker and that sounds sexual it does but it just it's always pretty honest. And Sean was...
an open book as you'll hear. And it's just a great conversation really quick. Don't forget that our ninth annual Yorkie thon is coming up July 25th through 27th. So just about a month away, a little over a month away at the time this one airs.
I know it's hard because we record episodes so far in advance. And like at this point, we already know who some of the guests are going to be for sure. We already know what the script reading is. We already know a lot of the items that have been donated for our one silent auction. So when. we are ready to start announcing those things. Make sure that you check out patreon.com slash the movie crypt. Again, you don't need to be a patron. You don't actually have to support the show.
You can save that dollar, maybe donate it to Yorkie Thon and help save some dogs with that dollar instead. But any information that we are making public will be posted there as we lead up to Yorkie Thon 9, also on aeriscope.com. likely on our what instagrams most likely oh yeah
I'm trying to convince myself to be more active on there. Honestly, dude, you're missing nothing. I know, but Yorkathon is a good car. If there's anything worth sending to you, I send it to you. If it's a cool Michael Jackson video or something about some metal band. I'll send it to you or something shitting on Trump. I will send it off to you. Thank you. Otherwise, you don't. I don't know. I don't know.
Well, regardless, we will start posting information when we have it. Again, if you're new to the show and this is your first Yorkie Thon that you're going to be tuning in for, it is all live. It is all free and you can watch it because it is all on video. It will be streaming on aeroscope.com and most likely the Aeroscope YouTube channel as well. I believe, at least last year, I know we had like a simulcast going on YouTube, which is so weird to me. Just click on aeroscope.com. Why do you...
No, I only watch stuff on YouTube. It just clicked there. It's still free. It's right there. And it looks better. Whatever. Yeah. So... It is free to watch. It's going to be four hours on Friday evening, July 25th, 10 hours on Saturday, July 26th, and 10 hours on Sunday, July 27th. Nonstop guests. Usually we have musical performances. comedy, live film commentaries. It's so much fun, but the majority of the audience likes having it be a surprise and not knowing who's going to come on next.
It used to be that on Arwen's Twitter, she would give out very obvious hints. So for anybody who didn't want things spoiled, they could just check out Arwen's Twitter. We'll have to see if we can convince Arwen to go back on Twitter. She wrote it off like a lot of people did. But we'll talk offline to Arwen about that. In the meantime, let's get to our fantastic conversation with the director of Dangerous Animals, Sean Byrne.
Okay, so our next guest is someone that, you know, even before we had the Movie Crit podcast, when we were at Fright Fest in, I think it was 2009, I remember sitting there watching. the loved ones and going we really need to start a podcast and talk to this filmmaker because he wasn't there at the time yes and since then has not only made one of the i would say one of the quintessential horror movies of the First zeros, but then came out fucking swinging with one of the most metal...
horror movies that we've talked about ad nauseum, the devil's candy. And we had Ethan on to talk about that. Ethan Embry on to talk about that. And we talked about the movie incessantly and has been raving about it ever since. And then said, All right, let's have next guest, next movie right away. And then 10 years later, finally, this motherfucker comes out fucking. This movie, Dangerous Animals, which should be out now in theaters, is... When this airs. When this airs, is maybe one of the...
Best uses of every convention that you're used to in current horror films. You got serial killer movies, check. You got shark movies, check. Now I'm going to twist them both into some kind of weird bully base that is going to subvert everything that you're expecting. And the first movie that has ever made me go, I really want to work with Jai Courtney. Yeah, fucking A. Fucking great. Please welcome to the Movie Crypt, writer and director, Sean Byrne. Yay!
Thanks so much. It's, yeah, really, really happy to be here. I'm big fans of both of you and the show. And, yeah, yeah, I heard you say 10 years. It's like, jeez, I need to start making films a bit faster.
in that well actually let's let's start there while that comes up because i'm sort of dealing with that right now it's been i want at least the time recording this thing it's been like eight years since i had a movie come out and maybe you can relate to this but in my case i was in development on this really really big tv series
which was about to go and then the pandemic happened so that all got like canceled and went away then there was something else and then there was the strike for a year so nothing was happening there it's just like bad circumstances and each time like these things take so long to actually happen and come out um and so uh i haven't started doing press for the new movie yet because it's that's still a ways away but i i've done like conventions or and like i just did an interview on a show
like 48 hours ago and it's like so what happened like why did you take a break for eight years like yeah it wasn't a break man and i now i just want to start giving answers like well you know i've made so much money off of hatchet that i was like fuck this and i just went to hawaii for eight years but now the money ran out but yeah i'm so i'm assuming in those 10 years it's not like you were just sitting there
No, I actually went to Hawaii. Yeah, I mean, I wrote. As soon as Devil's Candy finished, I was just writing flat out. And options, you know, options, three screenplays. But, yeah, as you know, I think there's a difference between getting a project options and then actually financing it.
You know, and I think there's kind of a perception out there that, you know, like, you know, we've all been in the indie space and our films kind of make a splash in kind of a cult way and then like the, you know, horror, there's just such a great community where... where the words kind of spread. But the reality is, you know, none of us have made films that are making $100 million and, you know.
My films are about basically humans hunting other humans, and I'm very interested in the extreme nature of kind of humankind, and I think that just makes for such... interesting characters like um and and you know just serial killers like the building blocks of what actually kind of you know it's what actually you know gets them to that point that they start to kill i think that's just so rich for kind of investigation and
and so appealing for actors. But, you know, the reality of Hollywood is humans hunting other humans. It's kind of like too close to the bone. And that's why I think there's not really a proliferation of kind of serial killer films.
I think there's more supernatural films because it's like, oh, well, at least that's not us. And I actually had to deal with that on The Devil's Candy. It was originally about a child killer. And could you think anyone in Hollywood wanted to touch a film about a child killer?
But the thing is, that's what's so interesting about looking at the evolution of these first three films of yours is that loved ones to me felt like a response to... in a way like that french extremism era that was kind of permeating in in our culture and and our kind of horror ecosystem it felt like your version of that but then kind of subverted and flipped on its head and then devil's candy was like a progression of that but still within that
kind of world of serial killers and how we're influenced by music and, you know, and music also kind of, you know, permeates through all of your work. Whereas dangerous feels like you somehow. crack the code in I want to keep exploring the human condition of what it's like to hunt another human being. But at the same time, I'm going to use tropes that you are familiar with that can be considered very commercial that you can put on a poster and go to AFM.
or go to Cannes and go, it's a shark movie, fucking sold. I think that's where you've made, I'd say, the most commercial film thus far while never... taking your foot off the gas in terms of what you've always wanted to do which is like what you said delving into the darker side of the human condition and that's that's i think what is it like that kaiser soze quote it's like the you know the
biggest trick the devil ever pulled was to, you know, make it convince you that he doesn't exist. And this is everything that you wanted, but like in a shark skin. You know, and I think that was so fucking smart. And, and I'm, you know, again, just to whack your car a little bit more, I love the fact that this is the first shark movie that I've seen where the sharks aren't demonized.
No, they are just there. They are just doing what they're not like whatever. Exactly. They're they're not weaponized. They're not made into monsters. Wait, wait, wait. Now I feel like you're going to shit on Jaws. The revenge. Oh, well, that time it was personal. So Sean, did you have any, did any of the sharks roar? Yeah.
Well, one raw, but didn't quite make the cut. So we had to probably for the best. You know, I was fascinated because you've always been a director, at least, you know, with the first two films that made to me such an impression. This is the first film that you didn't write. Now.
I know we can probably peel the curtain back a little more or go offline and go like, well, actually there's the director's pass and all the subsequent ideas and everything that you had to probably do after the fact. But this one didn't completely generate with you at first. Correct me if I'm wrong. So what was it about the script or was it just the opportunity struck? Like, how did this one come about that was different from the other two?
I mean, it was everything that you've already sort of talked about. It was that fusion of serial killer film and shark film and the fact that the shark flick was like the safety net that allowed me to kind of investigate, you know, what I'm really interested in.
the sort of the serial killers. And so I knew just, you know, from a marketing sense, I was like, wow, this sort of straddles two very popular kind of sub-genres. So there was that. But then also it felt like the first shark film ever that didn't demonize it. a shark or treat them as indiscriminate killers. And as much as Jaws is, he's an absolute masterpiece. But Spielberg and the whole team openly admit what an injustice it kind of did to sharks to the point that it's sort of...
become an endangered species just because of the Hollywood formula. If something's successful, you just repeat it. Gave them a bad rap. And even in documentaries, you basically have to have the breaching shot in a documentary. Otherwise, the documentary is not exciting enough to sell it. But, of course, the shark breaching just, you know, that just perpetuates this kind of this fear and this...
myth that these are these that they're you know that they're actually like a real life creature feature that's coming to get you where they're just kind of sharks are minding their own business and they you know there's less than 10 deadly shark attacks each year which the film the film kind of covers and even then
a case of mistaken identity and so I really felt like Nick had kind of cracked the code I just read it and went on one hand this is like this is like a 90s pitch like you know you know that kind of like um that showgirls story or whatever where it's like the pitch is written on a napkin. I felt like someone could just write
but, you know, serial killer flick meets shark flick. It's like, why hasn't someone done that before? But then you add the shark conservation angle on top of that and just, you know, and the ability to kind of just like morally kind of...
that wrong while still being a kind of a popcorn flick, you know, like it's still, I mean, Maverick was even an influence in terms of that slick kind of summer look and then trying to kind of, you know, subvert that. All of it combined, it just felt like, it felt irresistible.
And then, of course, I just, you know, worked with Nick over a couple of years to, you know, there are producer notes, there are budget realities. But he's such a lovely guy and he's so great to work with. I even struggle to answer questions about what each of it, because, you know, I mean, you start to... start to think with the one brain and I think that's um a huge part for me of like just collaborating in any sense is you just you just take kind of ego out of it and go how do we
What's the right answer? Let's just, you know what I mean? Yeah, you're surrounded by all these talented individuals that you hired for a reason. It's a shame when you meet or hear about. directors who won't listen to anybody but whatever they're thinking at the time it's like you're you're leading the ship but the ship needs to be there and the ship has a purpose and you need to lean on them to contribute Absolutely. And I think if...
I mean, I always say, like, the director, the role is, like, you do as much work as you can. You know the world as much as you can. You know what the path is. So then when, like, you know, someone else suggests something that's, like, actually that is on the path and that's, like.
Like, yeah, you know what I mean? Like, if you know it well, then you can grab all these kind of opportunities. But I think it's like, to begin with, it's like if you can communicate the world kind of clearly, then you're using pre-production really constructively and then you're able to recognise what in hell.
enhances it rather than pre-production being... a scramble like what is this what is this film and that's that to me and also I'm just so terrified of kind of fucking up and you know you've only got limited shooting time and that I yeah I kind of like to prepare as much as possible otherwise it feels like the equivalent
cramming for an exam it's you know like midnight the night before the exam and it's like oh the best you can kind of hope for is if you kind of luck it you know luck out and kind of you know you kind of get it passed but if you if you prepare as much as you possibly can and things go wrong
We all know it inevitably happens on film sets. Things go wrong. The sun's going down. There's weather issues. There's always, like, things you don't expect. But at least, you know, at least then, you know, if you're trying to get 100% and stuff, goes wrong you might come back to 80 or whatever or or you know you're in the game um so that's yeah that's kind of the way and also because i think
You know, my style is very, you know, it's slick, but it's very kind of measured and precise and kind of Fincher-esque. And I think if you're trying to make that type of film where it's like the jigsaw puzzles are very precise, it relies on a lot of prep. Along those lines of how important prep is, and you can never trust IMDB for accurate information, but according to IMDB... You put this was pitched on like May 6th
2024, went into pre-production that day, and then you guys were shooting 10 days later. That's bullshit. Obviously, you had more than 10 days to prepare this, correct? This is the part where Sean goes, no, no, it was less. Yeah, yeah, that's utter bullshit. Okay, all right. No, it was – I kind of – it was kind of –
Felt like it was going to be greenlit. I got the call. It was like kind of just before Christmas 2023, where it's like it looks like this is going to happen. And then it was like the 2nd of January 2024. where I spoke to Pete Chalamann, who is the president of LD, and he was like, we're going to make the film. And I was like, oh, so exciting. This is finally after 10 years, I'm going to be able to pay the rent.
And then it was like, well, you know what it's like. It takes about six months to cast these days. And I was like, well, when are we going to be like, you know, like I'm guessing it's going to be July or August or whatever. And then he was like.
I think we're going to go earlier than that because we want to hit summer like we currently are, but give me a moment and I'll get back to you with a date. And then I think it was like a few days later he comes back and he goes, no, we're going into pre-production in March.
I had basically, you know, January, February, and then a bit of March to kind of prep. And I was so terrified. I just quickly went out and bought a packet of cigarettes and I was like, how the fuck am I going to prepare this in that amount of time? And I tried to calm down.
And, yeah, so I just, you know, from that – but to me that does feel like a very compressed period compared to how I normally kind of – prepare um but you know i just you know you do what you got to do and i just work seven day weeks all through my own soft prep and then and then official pre and then it was so it did feel like being shot out of a cannon but but you know totally totally worth it Speaking of casting.
um we gotta talk about uh hasi harrison um because she's a fucking movie star yes i knew her from tacoma fd which was a sitcom that a lot of the broken lizard guys were involved in Only because it always ran on true TV right after impractical jokers. So I would watch it and she's fantastic. But after this, like, I think she's going to be such a star. Like she's amazing.
How did she get involved in this? Did she just like audition or was there something like that? Yeah, it was kind of an audition slash sort of meeting. We decided to just – because there just wasn't time to cast this –
traditionally because you know now you send it out and it takes two months to hear something so we kind of like just thought let's let's just kind of you know let's just kind of go go wide with the casting and see who's kind of interested and and then she was interested she was interested because there is
a certain stigma attached with shark films where agents can go oh it's like a shark film and we're like no it's different but the film hasn't been made yet so there's no there's no kind of proof or assurance and and and so Hassie you know she'd read it and she liked it and and she was you know
a bit of buzz around Yellowstone but I actually hadn't seen I hadn't seen her work and up until that point so I was sent I was sent her reel which was quite an extensive reel which is like you know a lot of scenes from Yellowstone and then and then Tacoma and then and I was like yeah she's you know, she's really good and she's got great screen presence. And then I met with her and, you know, she...
Yes, so it was an audition but we weren't, you know, she was the name that kind of stood out and so it didn't really feel like that. It felt more like just a workshop and she was really good naturally. incredibly likeable in almost a Sandra Bullock-esque way. You know how when Sandra Bullock's playing something darker, you still really reach out to her on a heart level. And I knew...
that was crucial for Zephyr because she kind of keeps the world at an arm's length. And sometimes some of her actions are not necessarily likeable, you know, with Moses kind of lets her in, kind of does a runner, but you've got to know.
oh, this is because this girl's got problems and even when she's not, even when she's kind of, you know, keeping the audience at a distance, we want to know more and we want to be let in and she had that quality. But also she's, you know, she's Texas strong and she...
And she rides horses and she actually had a Vogue shoot, I think, straight after, you know, our first workshop. And she was kind of like, you know, I've got to get out of here and, you know, I've given you something good. And then she had a second chemistry reading with Josh Houston. who plays Moses. And instantly they were just really smooth together. I was going to say, you know, a true testament to both the casting and how that casting...
really sets the audience into how much they're going to be invested in the movie. Like, for example, like look at Jaws, that scene at the dinner table. That's all you need to care about every single person, even the people who aren't in the scene. You know that Spielberg as a storyteller is coming from a point of humanity, which means that everybody on that beach, everybody who lives, dies or otherwise, they are flesh and blood. people and the chemistry
even just between Josh and Hassie in the van after they have sex and they're talking about breakfast and he makes her pancakes and everything. I like, I turned my wife and go, you know, if there wasn't a shark or a serial killer, I would totally watch this. I would keep watching it.
would just watch this as a Nora Ephron fucking rom-com you know like that that is so important so to hear that like even having the ability to do chemistry readings or even just have because that chemistry between them is so palpable because in most cases and this is not a slight on other shark movies maybe it is um is that By the third act, you want everybody to get eaten. You know, you're rooting for the sharks to get a good meal. And I genuinely was like, please.
Please, I'm not giving anything away, but please let at least one of them live because I love those characters. And on the flip side, you have Jai. And again, like, and this is no slight on him, but like, I remember seeing him in Jack Reacher, the first one. And I was like, this fucking guy is.
gonna be huge and you know he's done a lot of high-profile stuff but I've never been blown away by a performance from him until seeing this again and the moment that i even just a small little moment like when he goes to the uh the swap meet and says get the out of the way when he's going to get the new vhs camera there was something so
charming and so dangerous and so like evocative about because he was dangerous without being a cartoon yeah well he had a johnson everything like yes yeah where like there's something so disarming about that smile and you know You can do this to every fucking bad guy from here until Timbuktu, but you go like, all right, where's the maniacal laugh? And it's...
he didn't need them because he was like just the dancing scene, you know, where did Jai come into? Was he cast before anyone else? Cause you know, as we all know in doing indie film, sometimes you need that name to release the money or to get that green light was Jai. part of that or did it like where did he come in in the process
Yeah, he was like the top of our list. And like I said, there was very little time to cast it. So there was so much pressure on that call. You know, when Jai actually responded, it was like, oh, thank God. And then the producers were like just saying,
sending me, you know, sending me text messages going, say this, say that. No, just forget about that. Just say, you know, whatever, whatever, you know, just do whatever comes instinctively. And like I hadn't slept for a couple of days beforehand because we literally didn't have a cast. We were like two weeks out from shooting and we still. didn't have a car oh my god all right this is where i throw up
Yeah, yeah. It takes that long to kind of get a response. So it was kind of all or nothing with that call with Jai, but it went really well. And he kind of, you know, he just wanted to know who the guy was to start with. And because I always do kind of character breakdowns and heads of department breakdowns. And so I had.
you know from my perspective we talked about who this kind of guy was and then i think he realized that even though it was a chance to have fun this guy was going to be flesh and blood and there was a real you know there was a real backstory there about about you know the when he when he's attacked as a seven-year-old kid and kind of parental neglect and mummy issues and a warped socialisation and, you know, like had this article written about him in the local paper and you can imagine like...
Like when you're a seven-year-old kid, other kids kind of... you know, gravitating towards you because you're the celebrity for five minutes, but then you're suddenly the weird kid that doesn't stop talking about sharks. And then ultimately when he's, you know, when he's got his victims on the boat, it's kind of perfect for him because they're like,
can't run from his whole kind of shark obsession. And so we kind of tried to find the kind of through line from a broken child kind of to this kind of charismatic tour guide. But ultimately the charisma is kind of how the, you know, how the story works. Spider kind of catches the fly and it's sort of, it's not unlike Ted Bundy in that way. And then also talking about, you know, like Kathy Bates in Misery and how much fun you can have, you know, like you can really kind of own a film.
as an antagonist in a horror film. Or you think about, you know, Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs or Christian Bale in American Psycho and Jack Nicholson. And once he kind of wrapped his head around that, he was like, wow, yeah, this is a real opportunity.
opportunity but you know i think it's that thing with with a film it's like that first five minutes sets the tonal contract and and you can kind of once you've established that you can kind of get you know you can get away with kind of quite a lot and i i think the performance you know Maybe it's heightened in a kind of Tarantino-esque kind of way or something, but he has to know.
You know what it's like? He has to know who he is before the film kind of starts because it doesn't matter how fun it is, if it's not kind of underpinned by real kind of flesh and bone and a life, it doesn't translate.
otherwise it just becomes kind of um you know caricature um well speaking of that first scene this this is i hope i'm the only one to ask this question um because it's a weird question but uh Because it's the first scene I don't think this is necessarily spoiling anything But the use of The baby shark song He's been talking about this all fucking day Because like I'm sure you know what it's like Just
as a filmmaker especially someone who's currently in the throes of making something you can't help but be like fuck i wonder how many days they had for that i wonder how much that oh oh yeah they had a crane here are they at this when you're sitting there watching the credits and seeing all the music needle drops go by and you're like oh man like knowing what was in store with the movie just from seeing a trailer beforehand I'm like this couldn't have been easy to get
as a song even though they're not using the actual song from the show the actors are still singing it and this is a violent fucked up movie and usually any type of children's programming is Super careful with that stuff. They don't even want their characters referenced. And then I noticed in the end credits, because I watched all the credits as well, of course. And I'm like, it says Baby Shark traditional.
It's a traditional song already? Is that how that worked? Yeah, I mean, I think it needs a kind of deep dive into the legal department, but I don't think it cost anything. I think it was like it was something that was there in the... public domain and then each time you hear it in a show it's it's been you know it's it's it's a riff on that you know traditional wherever it started from oh so it's like a traditional melody and then people make their own words to it
Yeah, we didn't have to pay for it. I mean, it was crazy because Jai's got a... you know like a um a baby daughter and and um and she was obsessed with baby shark so he would go home it's like it and it would just be like baby shark was constantly playing i've never seen it because i don't have
any children of my own yet but my friends have kids who watch it and from them re-singing it to me you thought i know it that's so funny um like that's how catchy it is but as soon as that started like first i laughed because i'm like oh man i love this but then i'm like fuck
how expensive was this? How did they get this? And then it goes like almost immediately into a Billy Idol song, not Billy Idol performing it, but still I'm like, fuck man, this is great. Was that Madonna's? Yeah, it was Madonna's. It was, right? Yeah. Which is a great cover of that song. Yep.
But yeah, the music was so good in this. But that's something that I wanted to bring up because, you know, you look at loved ones and you look at Devil's Candy and there is... What's the best way to say this? There is a... dark sinister sense of humor to those films maybe devil's candy maybe maybe a little less so but you know it gets and it gets like black metal dark at times whereas this one
Maybe it was a reflection of the fact that, you know, a lot of your visuals had a vibrancy to it, but there was that sense of humor that I. I didn't expect. And I greatly appreciated, especially in that first five minutes. I mean, as we all know, the first five, your, your cold open can make or break a movie. And I thought that.
The fact that you had the baby shark moment in there where, you know, in a theater, you're going to instantly get the gratification of people laughing like he fucking using baby shark. And it immediately made like, like disarms the audience. And it's the way that, spoiler alert, the way that he dispatches his first victim.
the way that you shot it you're there wasn't an insert to the knife there wasn't a setup it was all done over the shoulder and you don't expect it and both my wife and i went you know because of the lack of execution in a way and i really appreciated that i thought that that was something that but it also felt incredibly designed was that like when you were going through that kill or any of the other sequences that you know obviously got a little more dark and sinister and fucked up
How do you attack a lot of these? Because the way that you approach violence is something that I feel is very unique to your own style and your vision. How do you craft those? Because I know some filmmakers.
you know, they'll go like, I kind of, I know we have to craft it up to a point, but then you get on set and you go, I don't need that. I don't need that. I don't need that. I just have, you know, Jai Courtney with a knife. And sometimes that's all you need. How do you go? What's your plan of attack for the attacks?
Well, I mean, I storyboard everything in advance, but I think you can't, you know, with horror, you can't really repeat the formula. It's like you've got to use the whole kind of toolkit. And then it's just matching. the moment kind of like, you know, pace and tension-wise. And that whole beginning is a bait and switch where you're enjoying, you know, being on Captain Tucker's boat. And if the queue was elongated...
it would have taken the shock out of it, you know, because it's like, I guess it's just like, you know, it's an unexpected kind of, you think, well, maybe, you know, I'm going to get the right hook, but it's the left hook. And it's so sudden, you're just like, you're kind of shocked. And so that kind of sets you up.
for, oh, yeah, this is going to be fun, but be careful because it's going to come at you hopefully from angles that you're not expecting. And then there are other moments like, you know, when Zephyr's kind of first abducted where, you know, I'm a big kind of Michael Haneke fan and Gaspar Noe. Oh, my God. I thought like that shot from the back of the van. I immediately thought of cache.
Yeah, I think that's a great thing about a lot of kind of European horror is, you know, there's an objectivity to it where you actually, you're helpless as a victim, helpless as an audience member because you can't reach in and help.
And there's nothing to kind of, in a weird way, suddenly when the sound design, screaming horror in the score, it kind of softens the blow because you're going, oh, yep, it's letting me know what's going on. But when it's just kind of naked like that, you go, oh, fuck, that's kind of...
That's kind of happening. And then there are other times where it needs to be more kind of kinetic and almost like Michael Bay-esque or something where like, you know, when Moses is finally on the hook, we already know, you know, like when Heather first goes up, no one knows what's going to happen.
No one knows what this guy's kind of MO is or his sick game is. So it's like about teasing the audience and stretching it because then they're kind of in the palm of our hand at that point because it's like, what's happening? We don't know what all this is about. But once you know what it's about...
then you don't want to spend the same time. You can't play that trick again, so it needs to be kind of relentless and fast, and then hopefully the audience go, oh, it's moving so quickly, we can't stop it now. And then, of course, it's kind of got a Groundhog Day almost quality to it, but then it's sort of Zephyr on the hook.
But that's then her kind of meeting her destiny in a way, which kind of ties back to even with music and, you know, use of crowded house and mean to me. And she came all the way from America. She had a blind date with Destiny.
I don't know, I think everything you have to, for me anyway, I've got to justify it being in there. And even if it works as like a needle drop and I love music because it's propulsive and it's fun, but every single one I think has to have kind of thematic relevance and it has to be something.
that the characters would genuinely listen to. And, yeah, so I think that's all part of the kind of fun of it for me is just it's working out the ride. You know, if you went on a roller coaster and every loop was in exactly the same place and you didn't have your corkscrews and you didn't...
you know what i mean like you go oh well i kind of got that roller coaster from the first loop you know yeah yeah then you've it's just you're doing the same thing over and over again until it's over um now we're both So we're so excited about Dangerous Animals. We jumped right in there, not where we should always start, which is at the beginning. All the way at the beginning. This is Sean's first time on the show.
How did this all start for you? When did you realize that you wanted to be a filmmaker, not as a hobby, that you wanted that to be your career? And was your family supportive of that choice? Or were they like, maybe you should pick something realistic? Yeah, I mean, I actually went to law school and I finished my law degree, although I didn't get my articles, so I can't practice. Oh, my God, you couldn't get a lawyer when you did this?
Yeah, yeah. It was only kind of like a couple of years out from finishing. It was like, I don't think I want to do this with my life. And a friend of mine, you know, he'd heard about the Australian Film, Television and Radio School, which is where, you know, like... Kate Shortland went and Philip Noyce and Jane Campion and Alex Proyas. And so I thought I kind of need to...
You know, like I need to find a school in Tasmania where I'm from, which is only like a very small state that can offer me, you know, some camera equipment and everything like that. So I actually had to go back to kind of high school with 15 and 16-year-olds just to access.
equipment and you know get a super VHS camera and use it was like a linear editing suite and I just made a bunch of short films that were you know traded on shock value because I knew I didn't have the production values to compete with all the other kind of applicants
this school because they only take four for a year into the kind of directing class so it's hard sort of to get into but that's kind of where it is that's yeah that's that's how my career got started in a professional sense but um you know my my father He was a publican, so he ran hotels, but also just like a huge movie buff to the point that he had his own radio show in Tasmania and also would write- Wait, did you see your father was a-
publican is that publican yeah like like you know he he would um he would um run hotels it's called like because i thought you said republican No, in Australia, it's called a publican. Like you, it's like you, you know, yeah, I mean, he would like lease out of space and then he would run that hotel. So he ran hotels for a living, but he's also a massive, massive.
massive movie buff and then that got him into the kind of a what was quite a small film community in Tasmania and then he got his own radio show on the ABC where because he had like has this kind of like photographic memory for film where people would ask ring up
and just ask questions about things that they'd forgotten or exhaust his kind of knowledge of film. But he also used to write for like the local paper and then he was on the local TV shows, like a midweek kind of review section. So I grew up from, there was never any... censorship in my house just watching films from the youngest age and um and and like he was so obsessed he had he had one of the first three umatics in Australia which was um which was before um obviously you know like VHS
or beta kind of came in. And we had like there was like TV channels in Hobart and then there was TV channels in Launceston, which is like... And they were different channels and they're like the two biggest kind of like cities in Tasmania. And he would drive several hours from Hobart just to record on this Umatic. Oh, wow.
He would rent a hotel room just so he could record something that was several hours away. And so I just grew up with like he would constantly be putting things on, whether it was like the Thief of Baghdad or the original kind of Robin Hood. mask. That's what I wanted to ask because I think one of the things when you become a dad or you have kids, there is the tendency to go like, I can't wait to show them blank. That's the only reason I'm going to have kids. I know.
This is Jurassic Park. This sucks. I'm going to make you're not my child. Was there any movie in particular that you remember that your dad showed you?
that kind of changed your worldview on cinema because there is that, like the difference between just, you know, like casually watching something that your parents go, Oh, you got to sit down and watch this. And something where you go, I, man, I like, I don't, I don't think I. ever would have ever watched that if I didn't have a parental figure or someone like a you know a mentor show me that and how it changed was there anything like that for you I mean I think yeah I mean
original king kong was on high rotation and and i remember that having a profound impact on me where you know actually feeling feeling kind of sorry for the monster which i think um actually you know really affects kids i mean the first time that the my son saw um clash of the titans he he cried when the you know when the when the kraken kind of died it was like because he weirdly yeah i even felt bad for medusa as a kid yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah But then...
Because he had the movie pass, I would just go to the cinema all the time. So I think when it really started to make an impact was when I was around 10 or whatever, and one week it would be like Kramer versus Kramer, the next it would be... Risky Business, which kind of awakens like Rebecca De Mornay kind of senses. We've all had our De Mornay moments. Yeah, yeah. And even Tucker's Dance a little bit is kind of like old-time rock and roll on.
on acid or something. And whenever I was sick, he would just leave work and bring home just a whole heap of videos. So I remember watching, you know, like Friday the 13th.
um two i think and there was like a a jump scare with a cat and that was the first time i'd ever it actually you know they said it's like a purity when you're you don't know you're a horror fan because it's a bit after you've never been duped by the fucking red herring before yeah until It's a cliche for everybody else, but for us, a lot of times, all those...
tropes that everyone else groaned at we went jesus a fucking black cat but then you go i liked that yeah and then you want more of it then you start watching as much of it as you can and we went through this a couple weeks ago actually on our live show where uh we had just had Eli Craig on whose movie Clown in a Cornfield was just out in theaters and we were like yeah this is kind of like a great gateway horror movie like and and then seeing online
the, the people who either just like loved it or wanted to shit on it because it's not fucking martyrs. Like, dude, like not everything needs to be the most.
fucked up vicious disturbing thing you've ever seen like there's room for other stuff too and if that's all you want to do is watch a serbian film on repeat maybe maybe seek therapy i don't know but like we're not doing hollywood therapy this month but like i love all of it i love that all of it exists but it was just funny how people were like this is you know it's a slasher movie like it's like a
Basic one that feels like it was out of the 90s. Yes! And it was really well done. And there's kids... all over the place that are seeing that and probably being like, I like this. And then they're going to go watch scream. And then they're going to go back to like Halloween and Friday the 13th and all that stuff. So yeah, it doesn't all have to be, but you're right. That first time that you experienced like. jump scare that
I'm sure now when a cat jumps through a window or you can usually tell it's being thrown through the window. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the great thing about horror, I think is then, Oh, that's the gag. And then you get used to the gag and then you can predict the gag. And then if we can predict the gag.
The audience can predict the gag. So they're always going to second guess it. So you've got to find ways to third guess them and fourth guess them, but then it can't be contrived. But yet you're not going to have that kind of armory unless you love horror and you've watched it. You know what I mean? That's what I think.
Horror gets so underestimated because it is so mathematical. You've got to land these things that are so precise. It's like even at a simplest where you're trying to get a jump scare to land and it's based on a sting, the sting still has to land. on the right frame. It's like, you know what I mean? It's like you see the actor's face one frame before it doesn't. It's like there's so much of it is like this, you know, it's sort of like a magic trick that you don't kind of get so much in a drama.
And then I hate that sometimes horror gets shat on because it goes, well, it's horror, but it's all drama. And then I go, well, horror is actually the apex of drama, you know, because it exists between life and death. Like, I don't know about you, but if someone kind of kidnaps...
me and puts a knife to my throat that life is never going to get more dramatic than that and it's like you know and then and then and then your relationships and your loved ones and all you know everything that gets you to that point it's like it's a level of poignancy that's almost
unbearable but you know that's the opportunity in horror it's like you know if you don't care you don't kind of scare but that's why it's such a great genre and I always I always find it mystifying that it's like oh it's horror it's like yeah but how hard is like a horror sound design or horrors you know what i mean thank you i say this all the time when when i would say because like i started as a comedy guy and then when i would say to like my reps like oh this
Project is looking for an open writer open director. Can you send me in? No, you're a horror guy and it's like if I can make a movie with no money that involves action effects drama comedy sometimes romance, whatever it is. Don't you think I could handle a bunch of attractive people saying cute things? Like I could do this. I swear I could do this. But you just get, and usually the people who hate on horror have never.
seen it or they they've just seen a couple things so they think they get it but you're right like it it does encompass everything and the movies that work well usually do hit all those marks but even as an actor it's one thing to know your lines say them convincingly hit your marks keep your continuity but When you're in a horror movie, you sometimes have to do every single emotion turned up to 11. And then...
they don't get the part is like the best friend and whatever, you know, drama or it's like, God damn it. It's, it's, it's hard. It's okay. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's like, yeah, living in that moment, that space between life and death and fighting for your life.
and also like just the physical aspect of it and the action aspect of it. And, you know, Hasse was fainting by the time we, the moment with, you know, don't want to you know give it away too much but there there is a moment with a with a with a with a thumb where um oh my fucking so good
And she was faint. I was watching that guy. I'm like, God, this performance is amazing. And then she fainted. It was like, oh, fuck. That's like, you know, it was like it's, you know, you're in a set. It's hot. It's like the culmination of like, you know, shooting on water for everything, just that level of exhaustion and giving it.
and you just don't you know remain like that's that's sometimes you feel guilty as the director having to ask somebody to put themselves through all that the thing i just made there was a character who has to have a panic attack and much like in my films when somebody throws up i'm like it would be so much better if you just really throw up like because come on it always looks fake you know the actors just holding in their mouth and spinning it out um and it's like as soon as she said oh i
I can give myself a real panic attack. I'm like, do you understand you're going to have to do this four times though to properly cover the scene? And she... all four times worked herself up i mean shaking tears the whole thing you can't fake that like or at least you can't fake it convincingly and i mean she really had a full-on panic attack and i felt So bad each time asking her to do it, but you know, everyone wants it to be the best thing it can be
yeah i mean and there's a lot of that in frozen where it just goes to like some deep dark places emotionally and that's you know and you you set it up so well in terms of the relation the relationships to begin with in a way that's very relatable with with with with
with friendship and, and, you know, like, and feeling like a third wheel, even though it's like, you're not because it's like, you know, there's still a warm arm wrapped around you, but it's your own, you know what I mean? Like your own kind of insecurity. And then to, then to take that through when it's like, just get it.
freeze to death and then it's like, you know, the regrets and shit gets real and then like your own, you know, you're facing your own mortality and you can't do anything about it. And I mean, that's like, that's just like dark places to go as an actor.
You know, I have you have no idea how much I appreciate you saying that right now today at this very moment because like we're trying to we're getting close like walking picture and Like to me character development in a survival thriller especially is very important it can't just be random bodies going through this what would you do holy situation you have to know these people a little bit you got to care about them and
and there's the inclination in editing to be like fuck it just get through it as fast as possible and get to that first like really mess up oh you mean the first producer note yeah well no i haven't producers haven't seen this yet at the time we're recording this but i'm thinking in general it's always can we get to the inciting incident sooner but as someone who is a very vocal about
I think all movies should be shorter. I have to sometimes stop myself from cutting away, cutting too much stuff out just to keep the thing moving. You got to remember that. if when you're the director you're the keeper of the story if the audience is enjoying the story or at least interested they'll wait to get to that up thing but you worry sometimes that there's going to be a trailer and a poster that says it's
The movie's about this crazy thing. And if you take too long to get to that first crazy thing, are you going to lose them or not? So the fact that you just said you appreciated the character development of Frozen means a lot to me because... And the back in the editing of that I was like do I need to get through this faster? Is anyone gonna care? I care and I went with my gut
I mean, yeah, I find it kind of mystifying because it's also counterproductive. It's like if you don't have the character development... then you actually can't have any pace. It drives me nuts. When a film just starts at a million miles an hour, how can the pace kind of build? I mean, they're longer films, but you look at all the structure of James Cameron's films, there is like a really, really solid first act.
usually goes for about 50 minutes, but you have a roller coaster without the chug up the hill. And unless you do that and that kind of knowing what's going to, you know, getting to know people when they're, when they're under pressure or establishing kind of who they are, you don't know what they're thinking.
can you know what they're made of when everything starts to kind of fall apart and and they've got to earn their survival like if you don't establish that you know relationship or I mean you know I mean it's like it's like I just don't I don't know how it can possibly
kind of work you know like even in it's like with um mayhem you can't like um how do you know unless you've got that guy that is you know he's a part of the system but he's also anti-authoritarian and he's unless you actually spend time to do that
The film can't work. It just becomes empty. But I think that's also just modern times and social media, people's attention spans, and certainly not everybody, of course, but there's a... percentage out there that they can't pay attention to something for too long it's got to be quick like just get to the the
cat doing the cute thing or the guy getting kicked in the balls or whatever it might be but like there's no time for story just next next next next um and the weird thing is that the pace plateaus then if you're starting at 11 where can you go then you start to get Yeah, you get numb to it. You get numb to it. Yeah. I want to, if you don't mind, if you permit me, I want to jump into Devil's Candy a little bit, if that's okay. Only because I remember when that movie came out.
It's very rare that I feel like I'm in the hands of a very dangerous person. And, you know, I had already seen loved ones. We saw it in the theater and I really liked that. There was a very sinister sense of humor to it. I love the tone of it. but devil's candy got under my skin in a way that I didn't like expect. And I think part of that.
is the casting of ethan because when i was growing you know like when we were growing up in the 90s ethan was in that thing you do and can't hardly wait and uh what it was empire empire records he was like everybody's favorite boy next door. And you took him to such a dark place. I mean, Pruitt, I've always loved Pruitt for, you know, decades, you know, beyond like Heavy and all those other films. And Shiri is great. But what...
What was it about Ethan? This is kind of the question I wish I could have been able to ask you at the time when we had Ethan, who at the time, if you recall, Adam, he was living in his car when he did our interview, which was fucking wild.
It's a great, one of the best interviews because he was so honest about what it really liked. He was honest. But I know we were starting to talk a little bit about... your faith in him because you know for all we you know i think all of us do this in one form or another we typecast whether it's on a list, whether it's from a casting director, whether it's from producers or financiers or just the culture, we sometimes tend to put certain actors in buckets and we don't let them evolve.
what was it about ethan you know that that you went that is perfect for Jesse because he is, he goes to so many dark places and I just, I'd never seen him like that before. Really. I'd seen him do some other genre stuff, but nothing like that. What, what, what was it about Ethan that you went? That's. That's perfect for me, even though we're going to go to some dark shit. Well, I have to give credit to the producers, Keith Calder and Jess, because they had helped.
that released cheap thrills and i hadn't seen cheap thrills at that point and yeah You know what it's like when you try and get a film off the ground. It's like, oh, you need names to move the marketing. Oh, yeah. So we got a whole list of like, you know, Casey Affleck is worth it. And none of it made any sense. It was like. I love it. It never makes sense. They're like, oh, you can get it like.
If you can get Gerard Butler, I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? For years, it was always Wesley Snipes. and like this is a movie about four teenagers doing like if you can get wesley snipes or john cusack still you know like yeah and look and this isn't shitting on those actors at all it's just like think about what we're actually making and who the characters are and now who you're saying we need to
put in this in order to get like, it makes no sense. And, and then half the time those lists, they show you by the time the movie's done, there's a whole new list and that person isn't even on it anymore. Yeah, yeah. And the budget that they justify was completely unrealistic and we were never going to get them anyway. And Keith and Jess have made it, you know, they've made so many great kind of indie films and they can, you know, they have kind of control over it themselves, you know.
you're next and the guests. And they were just like, they were just like, fuck that. This is like that. We know, we know what going down that path is like. We just, we just worked with Ethan on cheap thrills. And I really think that he'd be, he'd be great in this role. So you need to meet him. Then I watched cheap thrills. I thought he was fantastic in it. And then I caught up with him for coffee and he's got such a kind of, you know, like disarming, raw, you know, like honest.
energy to him which which which not everybody has because you know there's a certain guardedness in the industry where it's like everyone's trying to sell themselves but i really felt like you know um that that he's passionate and he was also kind of an open wound and and he
really and he loves metal he was like this is this character is me you don't understand like this is i'm i am this guy and it's the first role that i've read where i actually you know i've got it i've got to play it and and i really felt that you know because there's a
He has that kind of – he radiates it out of his pores, a real kind of like – a real kind of sort of, you know, yeah, kind of energy, manic kind of energy. But also he's, you know, he – He loves his son and he's just like, it's, you know, he's... Yeah, yeah, just alive with emotion. And after that meeting, it was like, yeah, it has to be this guy. And then, you know, we did some photos after that where he was kind of, you know, just spent a lot of time together talking about the character.
I mean, I didn't have to push him. He pushed himself. It meant so much to him. He pushed himself to kind of breaking points. I think that line between kind of life and art, it almost became quite a harrowing experience for him. And, you know, and I think all of that is on the screen, you know. You can feel it in his eyes. It's almost like the – it's just like it's kind of a darkness in there. But ultimately I think he related to it.
it so much too because he's you know he he loves his he loves his son so much and and there is something about you know there's a there's a selfishness a necessary selfishness if you want to be in this industry where it is about
about sacrifice and that's what the film's about and ethan also always saw it as this love story where it's like ultimately it's about a man who chooses his family over his career and every and you know it's like any horror film you kind of got to strip out the horror and does this work yeah dramatically without that and um and so yeah he was um yeah he was yeah i mean super super intense and committed and um you know like yeah it's um but yeah i can't imagine anyone else in that row
just what he did to his body as well. It's like, you don't need to even go that far. He was ripped to begin with, but he was like, no, it's like, you know, if I'm this painter and how much weight you would actually shed. And also, you know, that character has a whole dark history as well that there used to be.
different opening to um metallica's fade to black that actually was basically set up this kid's story where he'd done all these self-portraits but we ended up having to get rid of it because that stuff was so dark that the actual devil's candy paints with all the kids. almost darker than the backstory painting. So it left it kind of nowhere to go. To hear the rest of this episode, go to patreon.com slash the movie crypt for only $1 a month. You'll get every new episode every Monday.
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