That's The Movie Crypt! And welcome to another edition of The Movie Crypt. My name is Joe Lynch. Adam, Adam Green, our illustrious co-host is not with us today because he is currently in Malta right this second shooting, hopefully. Well, maybe the last days of his new film. I'm not allowed to talk about it. It's very confidential, but let's just say there's RoboShark.
he hates when i say that because there's you know sharks are involved but they are not robot sharks they do not have lasers and uh well who knows you know things get fixed in post there might be lasers Anyway, I am so excited to talk to the three filmmakers who were involved in... what I would like to call a true sleeper hit. It is the last video store. And it's a film that has been traversing the festival circuit for a little while now. We actually kind of cross paths.
at the premiere of both of our films. uh in the 2023 fantastic fest um where we're going to talk about it but clearly we were like just on the precipice of having a conversation. And it's one of those movies that I kept seeing stills for going, hey, any movie that has video store in it or video stores involved, I'm in. But it took a little bit of prodding and I finally got to watch it.
holy guys like this this movie is something that i'm i guarantee you will all love it is a film completely set in a video store so it's a chamber piece it has a bevy of movie easter eggs and references but it is truly a labor of love for all the filmmakers involved some are behind the camera some are in front of the camera But we're going to get into this because this is something that's really exciting. Last night to just kind of bring us up to context. This is being recorded.
on March 22nd, 2025, the day before my birthday. So I'm feeling a little old. And what makes me feel even older, but in the most beautiful way possible. is that last night, Becca and I did a screening of our film Suitable Flesh at the Sassafras Saloon in Hollywood, where we showed a VHS version of Suitable Flesh. I got approached a couple years ago by the Broke Horror Fan guys and Whittier Entertainment guys who have been making...
VHS versions of movies for the last couple of years. And, you know, there was always like the novelty of it, like VHS. You know, is this a viable commodity or is it just kind of nostalgia porn? But considering that it was a Friday night in Hollywood and we sold out. Every single ticket for this movie and I had gone back after having done a version of mayhem for these guys
I went back and I personally pan and scanned the entire film, you know, just the way they used to do it in the good old days where you would watch it and go, oh, holy crap, that whip pan back and forth between shots. Was that intended? In most cases, it wasn't. It was some drunk guy in Burbank going like, oh shit, so Mr. Stallone's talking, and go over.
so i made sure i deliberately got to do that version so you know how they always do it in criterion where it's like director approved uh 4k version of parasite well This is the, this was the director approved pen and scan four by three lo-fi SLP mode version of suitable flesh, which. Apropos considering that most of the movies that influence Suitable Flesh
I had seen on VHS or were made for the VHS market in the erotic thriller realm. So it only felt right that we would have a suitable flesh, a suitable version of suitable flesh to play. And we watched it with a sold out crowd and they were loving it. It was and it was so unique to see it in that form. So, you know, and there was a there was vendors there that were selling VHS tapes like they were flying off the shelf. There was there was an actual fight.
maybe not fisticuffs but there was a heated argument between a couple customers a couple patrons who had come there for the screening and they went to a vendor who was there and had a bunch of vhs tapes and they were fighting over who was going to get the copy of Nightmare on Elm Street Part 5, The Dream Child. And the reason why there was a fight or a demand for this was because it's the only way that you can see the director's cut or the unrated cut of Nightmare 5.
It's kind of been lost in the ether. It hasn't been released on Laserdisc. It's not on DVD. You can only see it on VHS. And these two dudes were like fighting over it. There was an overbid for it. I hope the vendor got a pretty penny out of it. Weird, beautiful, nostalgic resurgence for VHS, the amount of vendors who are here, the amount of video stores in L.A. that have popped up that are VHS only. It's amazing. Now, it's not you can't quite.
profess that like well you know vinyl is the be all end all the best way if you want to hear ryan wilson picking his nose on you know like in on vinyl you can hear that on the vinyl itself whereas with vhs It looks like somebody wiped their ass with it, and you're looking through a paper towel tube, a square paper towel tube, to see that version. But yet...
There is this love for that format that is so fascinating to me. And it really brought me back to the days where I would go to the mom and pop and beeline over to the horror section and be like, oh my god look at the box art for you know friday the 13th part six
or any of the media titles or even like those huge clamshells or those big boxes for I Spit on Your Grave. I used to love that. It felt like... to be able to go to these video stores and talk to the video clerks who usually were you know as geeky and as you know kind of astute in their knowledge of film And this film here, The Last Video Store, encapsulates that love.
but at the same time has this wonderful like purple rose of cairo-esque ability to you know bring characters ripped from these fake movies that are obviously loving homages to some of the films that we all grew up in, where you have these two characters who are fighting in the video store.
with all these characters and just trying to survive so i'm going to shut up and i'm going to i want to really kind of get down and get into the nitty-gritty with these guys please welcome to the movie crypt cody kennedy tim rutherford and kevin martin thanks for having us thanks for having us joe um guys thank you so much for uh and this also this is a huge shout out to uh greg your uh your collaborator who's been trying to get us
all together for months now and we finally did it thank god and uh and i'm so glad because you know this was one of those movies that like was a true treat to be able to enjoy at home, you know, but it's one of those. Those films that I go, God, I would have loved to have seen this in a theater. And I know that you guys got to do that when you were doing your festival run.
So I want to just dive right in and first off say congratulations on the movie because it really is such a blast. You know, I know sometimes people say that it's like, oh, it was a lot of fun. It was a real blast. But this movie, you can tell. was really a labor of love for all parties involved, you know, both on the camera, off the camera. What was it like the first time that you guys got to see this movie on the big screen?
I mean, like, yeah, I mean, to be back at Fantastic Fest where that was actually where our short had premiered in the US for the first time. So that was the first time. I had ever traveled to a film fest. so far away to watch our screenings, to have it come full circle, to be back in Texas and watching it with, you know, the Fantastic Fest is such an incredible audience. You know, they're here for exactly the kinds of movies that we love and the kind of movie that we made.
So it was just like, obviously very nerve wracking to see all these years of making short films about Kevin and his video store and to have that like kind of come to fruition and like. be a participant in your dream coming true. You know, I probably lost like three pounds of... Just kind of sitting there hoping that people laugh and kind of gritting my teeth at some of the very, you know, it's a kind of exploitation movie. There's a lot of Canadian hockey jokes and stuff.
you know didn't didn't land quite as hard as we had hoped but like in the in the end there's just so much love for the video store and for kevin and those experiences that, you know, we just walked away from that and just on cloud nine. Kevin, what was it like for you to, because I mean, you guys have worked together, you know, both.
you know, on screen, off screen for a couple of years now between, you know, the last, the original last video store and Kevin, you were in Twas the Night of the Tree Beast, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, and that's how long our friendship goes back. I met Cody and Tim. They were customers at my store, my real store. And I also ran a film festival back home here in Canada where my store is.
And, uh, it was, uh, they, they, we used to have a contest with every, every screening that we had at the movie theater, any local filmmakers want to shoot a short film, uh, best one, I'll give you some free items from my video store. And Tim and Cody kept winning every, every month. Right. So it got to the point where, well, they had an idea of we were having Michael Bean as a guest of ours. Oh, wow. Yeah. And he to promote the victim with Daniel Harris and his wife.
And we thought we'd do something special, like maybe do like an intro video. So I asked him and Cody if they could come up with something. And then... with uh tim cody and our other friend josh who plays viper jackson in the movie um they just said let's shoot something in the in your store cab and we'll do like a terminator tribute to michael And the crowd liked it. And then everybody was like, what are you guys doing next? So for a while, Joe, every time we had a retro screening.
Tim and Cody would come to my shop and we would film like a nice tribute to that movie in the video store, whether it was Battle Royale or Army of Darkness or Poltergeist. And then it got to the point where why don't we do something original? because we had the Astron 6 guys as guests of ours. And that's when we got the idea of like making Kevin me into a weirder character of what I actually do. And it just kind of evolved from there.
I just didn't realize how much these guys were going to fuck up my store repeatedly by filming in here. So it got a bit hectic. A lot of blood was shed. But I'm glad you mentioned the Treebeast, the Christmas episode, because that's kind of the one that got attention for us first. That goes 12 years back. I want to kind of start with you because you're one of the champions of the video store.
I wouldn't necessarily say a renaissance because it's definitely had its ebb, very much an ebb in the last 10 or 15, even 20 years. And yet now it seems like there are video stores that are popping up everywhere. And, you know, like, I think all of us can agree at some point, we've all been affected by the video store culture. Clearly, you know, you guys have as well. You know, I grew up in a video store. It was our, you know, it was like.
I guess you can call it like our way station, our transport into all these different worlds, all these different genres being exposed to all these different stories. the way that maybe a library would be for some people. I know that some libraries had video, like video rental components. But a video store itself was was clearly its own beast. And before the advent of Blockbuster, at least here in the state.
You know, you would have all these mom and pop places that would be, you know, in charge of setting up the video store and creating a business out of it, but also picking the movies that would. you know, line all of the walls, you know, in all the different genres from comedy to action to horror, the new releases, the dramas. And that's honestly where it got more exciting for me because I knew that.
At the time, there were certain video stores that I knew that the owners or the clerks who were working there, they were part of the booking process or the buying process. And they would be the ones who were. these various movies and knew that like you know, it might be good to have uh, the Jess Franco vampires or cannibal Holocaust.
lining the you know lining the walls of the you know the horror section alongside all the nightmare on elm streets and all the halloween movies and you know um the deadly spawn remember the deadly spawn box That box got so much fucking traction just because it had the creature right on the box and there's fucking body parts all over the place. And I was like sold, you know, like the, the art of the movie box is obviously.
developed, if you will, over the years. And now it's like, if you can just try to fit something on a fucking thumbnail these days, you're lucky to be able to convey everything that's going on in the movie. But, you know, video stores have. come and they've gone. And now I feel like they're coming back again.
And Kevin, you know, you've had your video store, you know, for, and correct me if I'm wrong, the lobby video store is your video store, correct? Yeah, correct. It's in Edmonton, Canada. It'll be 20 years this summer. 20 years? Holy shit. What was the impetus for you to start that business? Was it that at the time, 20 years ago, this would be...
you know, 2005. You know, this was at the time where DVDs were really all the rage. They were the marketplace. VHS was... starting to you know i guess go by go the way of the dodo i remember you know i remember the news report being like The end of violence, you know, the history of violence, the history of violence is the last VHS tape that's being made. And that's it. After that, then, you know, like.
Get ready. If you really needed that copy of Videodrome on VHS, you're going to have to go to a garage sale. So DVD at the time was still burgeoning. you know 2006 was when i started making features and you know i was working deliberately for fox
because they were doing a direct-to-video unit, and that was wrong turn two. And here, you guys will appreciate this story. I've told this ad nauseum on the show before, but I think, you know, as fellow filmmakers and lovers of physical media, you'll appreciate this story. I had almost gotten the job. I was ready to sign my life away and go up to Vancouver and shoot Wrong Turn 2, which was my homage to splatter films from 84 to 86.
And I, of course, did not tell them that because they would have been like, get the fuck out of my office. But they were like, you got to meet the boss. So I met with Tom Rothman, you know, the head of Fox, which it didn't make no sense to begin with. You know, I was like, why the fuck am I meeting like the head cheese when I'm, you know, like this is a small movie to them. And and I'll never forget these words. He goes, look.
into a DVD case and slap it on a wall at Blockbuster. And if it has the title wrong turn to, it will sell. So no matter what you guys do, and this was also at the time where the unrated. Fad was all the rage where if you slept fucking unrated on Sandlot 2. That shit was going to move units. You know, it would all stemmed from when the Hills Have Eyes was huge for them because they got to do an unrated version.
And they were like, look, as you know, we can we can go out on rated as long as you make your days and you and you don't go over budget. You can do whatever the fuck you want. Just, you know, make sure that you're not. There's no incest. And if you want to get rapey, don't get too rapey. And so I would call every day with these dumb fucking ideas. First off, I walked out of that room going.
I hope no one sprays diarrhea in a DVD case. That would be disgusting. But it was still at a time where they, you know, you could deal with, they were still making money on sales and they were still making money on rental. So we like I was kind of given the keys to the kingdom and would have to check in every couple of days and be like, so listen. So I was thinking.
what, what would, would you guys be, you know, up for me putting a vegan in a dog cage and feeding her entrails, you know, in the movie? And there would be a pause and they would go. Well, can you make your day? I'm like, of course I can make my day. They're like, then fucking do it. At the very least, it'll be a special feature on the on the DVD or whatever. So, you know, it was a glorious time.
And so, you know, with you, Kevin, you know, when you're starting this business, what was like, what was the reason why you wanted to start that video store? That was a very long winded way of asking you this question. I'm sorry. I'm just excited. But honestly, it's a really cool to hear. It's a great story. And you took me back. The main reason was I've worked 25 years in the bar industry here and I still do because but I wanted more purpose of my life.
obviously being a kid of the 80s the bcr was my babysitter it all goes back to that right and um The video stores were starting to, you know, kind of go away a little bit. And I just wanted to open up a niche-y store that dealt with movies that I felt weren't being dealt with. Like, Blockbuster was the anti-video. I mean, I got my signed copy of Deadly Spawn over here by Tim Sullivan when he...
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Tim, well, we brought Tim in for Chillerama that year, right? And yeah, he was a good, but again, every filmmaker loves a video store, right? I mean, because filmmakers I find of this elk in age, that was their film. So, yeah, so I wanted to expose movies like Cannibal Holocaust and like Miss 45.
maniac and driller killer and all that stuff to people that maybe would never find it in Blockbuster. But, you know, financially, like, thank God I didn't have kids or wasn't married. As long as my cats are fed, I'm good. But what I didn't expect was all their video stores to start closing around me. And by about 2012 here in a city, I was the last one. I still am the last one right now. And then you feel like.
Now you have to keep it going because you're right. There is a Renaissance and parents are bringing their kids to my store going, this is a video store. And I ended up feeling like the old Templar Knight from last crusade guarding that Holy grail. You know, I just can't go. I'm stuck. And movies that would have been considered too mainstream 10 years ago aren't mainstream.
because streaming sites are getting buried. You know, Cannibal Holocaust is my number one selling movie after 20 years. I think I've sold about 600 times. Holy shit. Yeah, easily, easily. But number two, and this is hilarious because you cannot get it in the US or Canada, Spice World, the Spice Girls movie, number two seller. Because I get it from Australia, people are losing their minds. It's like a nostalgia view. So I won't lie. So when I.
I think one of the things that becomes a rite of passage for all of us video store kids is to one day work at a video store. I got to work at this video store called 112 Video in Long Island, which was basically... If you couldn't go all the way into New York City to Kim's, There was 112 video. It was a private collection that this guy named Fred had. He collected videos from like the early 80s on and he was like, fuck it, I might as well open a store.
So I got to work there for three years. It was three of the greatest years of my life because I'm sure, Kevin, you feel the same way. There is nothing better than to recommend when Scream 2 isn't in. And you can be like, but have you seen The Prowler? And they're like, Oh no, I've never seen the prowler. Holy shit. And then they come back and they're like, that was fucking amazing. But do you still have scream too? Like I, I, I so much enjoyed that experience of being able to.
impart my own tastes onto other customers. And Spice World came out when I was working there. And the movie was a bomb when it came out. It came out in January of that year, like earlier that year, and then it came out over the summer. We ended up, I will never forget this. We got five copies in for the new release shelf and within two weeks. Fred called up and goes, please order 10 more.
We're like, I know because we couldn't keep it off the fucking shelf. It was flying like every day. Someone would come in like, do you have Happy Gilmore? Yes. But do you have do you have Spice World? We're like, nope, that shit is out. It's so crazy how that movie like found another life. And, you know, the thing that I think is missing from these days is that.
when something goes on streaming, it, it just kind of disappears into the ether. You know, it just, it goes away. It gets lost in the shuffle. Whereas on a video store, you, it lives. right there in front of your face. And, you know, maybe the movies around it, you know, like might be able to help it a little bit, but you get to go, Oh fuck. I missed that in theaters.
Let me grab that now. And especially if it's always gone, then you go, God damn it. It's like the second that like those kinds of movies. Like I remember Albino Alligator, that Kevin Spacey movie that I know we're not allowed to talk about Kevin Spacey, but whatever, you know. But that movie was always out the first two weeks.
And because it was always out, it created a demand. And now people who are like, oh, I got to see that. Why? Because it's always out. You know, I was like, holy shit. Is that what it takes? So, I mean, did you feel this, like that you were kind of getting that same kind of. Feeling that your customers would come in and see the kind of climate of the room and go, well, I have to see that because it's always out.
Oh, fuck yeah. I mean, it still works. I mean, I got the old classic rented tags, you know, so people see them or like. There's a whole row of them, and it's all got the rented sad face on it. It's funny. I love your Scream 2 Prowler thing, because you're right. It's such a huge, like... rush to like a kid comes in and they're like, ah, Kevin, I'm getting into slashers.
You know, I've done the Fridays and the Elm Streets, and I always call, like, okay, well, that's level one. Now we've got to go a little bit level B, My Bloody Valentine's, Prowlers. How about Berserker, The Burning, you know? And, like, how far do you want to go down this rabbit hole? And when they return, the good thing about fucking renting movies is they love coming back and then be able to talk to me about it. You know, you have somebody to talk to, you get jacked up.
And I get all walks of life in my store. And it's a pretty small store. Somebody can hear each other. And it's a safe space. I don't give a shit what your background is. You're in the video store, only nerd talk here.
And I love seeing customers that don't know who the fuck each other is arguing over which sleepaway camp sequel is the best one in my video store. Oh, dude, I've had that conversation before. I like when, when someone came in and was like, oh man i really want to see like i really like the first sleepaway camp i'm like but have you seen the pamela springsteen yeah you know movies
And then there will be someone who's like all the way like over down the aisle or whatever. And they're like, Oh, I heard you were mentioning the sleepaway camp too. And then we all get into this conversation and there's nothing better. Then look, I mean, part of the reason why, and I'm sure Tim and Cody, you guys can agree with this too. When you love film, there's nothing better than to discuss film because by the time everyone splits off.
you know that you probably just got three or four movie recommendations that will enrich your life and enrich your acumen for these movies just based on that conversation. And what better place? to do that than a church of cinema, which is either it's the lobby of a movie, which sometimes the foot traffic on there doesn't allow you to kind of have a conversation. or video store where people like to hang out. And you're right.
Being able to go back there and then discuss the movie with the clerk or with other customers and then maybe get another recommendation. Again, those are the things that I feel like are missing from our current culture. Yes, there are chat rooms. Yes, there is social media. But those avenues now are so toxic where the video store felt like a safe space. Oh, 100%. Absolutely. I mean, Kevin had to kick me off the couch.
so many times because i would just go and hang out there to to not always participate in the conversations but to like listen to other people talk to like and and to hear other people's perspectives on movies that i love And, you know, like Kevin, usually nobody's allowed to sit on the couch, but I got that special treatment. And despite, you know, like we're never renting anything, I would just sit in the movie store and watch.
movies but so i like the journey too though like because you you you know you're going to the video store you're you're gonna go pick your three movies it's like you have the weekend even if you don't really like the film you're still going to watch it where i think it's easy to just click away from yes that is dude that is so important you commit to the movie and then you always find a couple things you like about it because i think it's easier now
I like the, just that nostalgia of just kind of like watching these films and kind of finding what you liked about them and just committing to them because you, you pick them and then you return. I, um, so there's a video store in LA. It's one of the few video stores that's left. There's, um, you know, there's a video. It's kind of came back. A little bit like it's kind of like half video store, half screening room. There's another one called Video Tech.
but there's cinephile. Cinephile is, you know, near the, it's right next door to the new art. And it's actually partially owned by the owners who own the new art theater. And my wife and I would drive. 45 minutes from Burbank to L.A. I won't make any Californian jokes, but it's a fucking trek to be able to get over there. But there's nothing better than to go there and get a stack of movies.
And you're right. Like it becomes an investment that you can't not deny when it's sitting on your Blu-ray player or like on your entertainment center. And you're staring at this stack of fucking movies going like, I'm going to watch you, you know, like. I've, I've made the investment. I've made the commitment to be able to say like, okay, you know, like I gotta, I gotta get through like, and I would even like take pictures of.
the movies out of it and put them online where i'm like okay i got cast a deadly spell and dennis hopper's out of the blue and you know the sun also rises and and you know we would always go like okay you pick some i pick some And then you get the enjoyment of discovering his movies or rediscovering them.
but you, you kind of have to, you don't want to be that douche who goes back and hands the movies back. And somebody says like, Oh, so what'd you think? Well, I didn't finish them all. Don't be that guy. Don't be that girl. You want to watch these and then have that conversation. So it's great that these places, these. you know, again, these little sanctuaries of cinema are still around or popping up like Kevin with yours and, you know, cinephile for us.
They're important places for us to keep that love for cinema, but also the conversational. Um, I want to, I want to make sure that cause we can, I guarantee you that this conversation could be three hours fucking long knowing us at this point. Um, but I, I wanted, I want to dive into Cody and Tim. with your collaboration together on this, because you guys were the co-directors on this. When did you guys start working together as a as a team? Because I know that you come from, you know.
visual effects, and you also come from the art department world and stuff. When did you guys decide to make that leap into directing, but also directing together? grade 10 English class wow really that far back yeah oh yeah that would be like 2001 or 2002 something like that and I was drawing a picture like inspired by...
Akira and Cody was sitting next to me and he just leaned over is that Akira and I was like yeah so that's kind of like where we started to work together and then I was in the drama class Cody was a basketball prodigy and uh we started You know, working together kind of on these kind of things, sharing our love for movies and multimedia class and taking those kind of things together. And then, you know, Cody got his hands on a camera and we started making shorts.
And we started working together and it just seemed like the contrasts in our tastes and opinions seemed to produce like a really unique product. And then Tim was always the one slapping together props and building something and I'd have to do a bit of the visual effects because we just didn't have anyone to do that stuff.
those hats and then that actually was able to get us into like our the careers that we do um well do That's one of the things that I think is so key, especially when you're doing. you know low budget no budget or the as the buzzword is these days micro budget uh feature films that we already know is so fucking hard to get any movie made, whether you're making a big Marvel movie or you're making something for, you know, for peanut. You really do have to.
create a family and an infrastructure of fellow collaborators that all see each other's work eye to eye see like I love that that one moment that you just mentioned where you see each other's differences and you see each other's strengths, weaknesses, but also how not everyone's tastes are going to be the same. Again, my wife and I, we both collaborated on Suitable Flesh. We're working on other stuff now.
And, you know, she knows that I'm the guy that knows everything about every Bill Lustig movie. She also does, to be fair. Like, you know, we had a, you know, I just showed her Vigilante two weeks ago. And she had never seen it. She like, we went through a whole. like escape from the Bronx and the new barbarians kick a couple of weeks ago. And you know, cause we love those movies, those like those Italian exploitation movies that we're all riffing off of escape from New York.
um that were you know most of them had friend williamson in it And she had never seen Vigilante before. So to be able to expose her to Vigilante, which, you know, I don't know if you guys have seen it recently, but the new 4K version of that movie that Bill Lustig did himself with his own company. It looks gorgeous. It looks like a movie shot today. I just saw Bill at the master's dinner last week. And I like Bill and I've been friends for years.
And I never thought I would ever say that. Like the guy who made fucking Maniac and the Maniac cop movies, and I call him a friend. It's fucking weird. But I was like, oh, Bill, we just watched Vigilante. And classic Bill Lustig, he goes. why you know it's like because it's a fucking good movie dude But the, you know, I think that's really important to go back to what you're saying about contrasts. Like, you know, Becca loves old Westerns. I'm not as familiar with like old Westerns.
And, you know, and like Vincenzo, Vincent Benelli movies. But I do know a lot about Abel Ferrara and we can we can bounce off of each other with that and be able to kind of. make each other better both as movie viewers but also as creative people by being able to expose each other to these other things. So I wanted to ask both of you guys and Kevin, I want to, I want to throw this out to you as well.
What would you say is one of your strengths that you were able to impart onto the other in terms of your tastes, your likes, your dislikes, or even just like your skill set? Well, I'll answer what I think Cody gave me, which I like. Cody has a deep love of Asian cinema and Hong Kong.
cinema and that's just something i was never really exposed to growing up so as we became friends and you know got closer and closer and started working together cody showed me more and more like bizarro hong kong stuff and like and eventually like possession too which is like one of my favorite movies ever and it's just like these that kind of like quirky, campy.
uh like physical comedy that is just like inherent in those movies became what i would consider like one of the staples of my style like or you know like our style collectively for sure but like Something that all my writing and the way that I think about.
cinema and and the way that i would want to make movies like that it really inspired that part of of how i how i create well uh i mean i mean tim you actually tim was the first person to show me the thing and like wow like that because i yeah yeah i kind of so i so that so there's that that part that opened up That was a big one for sure. And then also, Tim is just really, he kind of brings in the energy.
I kind of am able to feed off of that. And, and I think he just kind of showed me just how to just, you know, go in guns a blazing and, you know yeah. As you can see, as I'm talking, but yeah. Well, you know, that's another thing that I think is really important when it comes to co-directing on a set. I've only done it once.
And it was great because, you know, there is a delineation of duties when you're on a set, when you're a solo director, you have to make 200 decisions a day when you're a co-director. If you're both on the same page, and usually that stems from being able to agree or agree to disagree on things before you even step on set, because the second you step on that set, whether it's your own set, whether it's Kevin's.
you know, like the clock is ticking and you have a certain amount of things you have to get and you have a certain amount of things you have to do. So to have a co-director. Sometimes it means that you only have to make 100 decisions and then the other director is making the rest of those decisions or helping out with that. What is your usual workflow when you guys are on set together? Because, you know, there was the.
I remember when the Hughes brothers came out with, what was it, Menace to Society. And they were doing a lot of press and everything. And I thought it was a really interesting. dynamic that they would talk about where one brother would be working with the actors and the other one would be doing the cinematography stuff.
You know, which not every dynamic is like that. The Coen brothers are not like that. You know, there's other duos that have a different way of delineating that, you know, those duties. What is it for you guys on set? pretty similar to that actually i tend to work with uh this cinematographer or because i kind of was in the beginning so i'm very much kind of the visual oh, this would be cool if the camera moves in this way and whatnot. And then Tim is usually the go-to to work with the actors.
and just making sure that they're you know they're where they need to be and then we kind of like cross-pollinate on those as well when like we have suggestions for either side And we just kind of tackle it together. Definitely. I think that like the dynamic kind of balances out in that, like every time, you know, like I'll give the actors a note and Cody will be talking to the.
the dop and then we kind of like trade off and like kind of you know reiterate what we want as like I'm always like kind of coming at like the uh like emotional part of a scene and cody being the like the editor and stuff always has like uh like a long game conversation to be had and i think of those two balances like you said like you know like sometimes it's we're splitting the decision making other times you know we're both answering 150 questions and sometimes 50
you're answering those questions as you're like rigging up something to fall because tim's you know production designer and he's like you know just just like this thing's gonna fall on you yeah Now, Kevin, who did you really listen to when it came down to when you guys were on the set? Well, I don't think it's, I never wanted to bother Cody because like you said, he's working with the DOP. But like Tim, Tim is the very hands-off.
There's no doubt about it. Tim's the one that'll like, give me the pep talk. You know, I need, I need more emotion out of you. You're better than this here. with jameson you'll be fine um you know he was he like he was a tim is the raw raw guy and cody's like look i know i'm quiet in the background but i'm the one who's gonna cut this shit together beautifully tonight and it's gonna look great so
But yeah, it's pretty much what they said. Tim is a actor's director. Cody is don't fuck up my shot. All right. I don't care what you do. He's like, Cody's like Argento. Look, actors, you guys are just kind of pro. It's going to look beautiful, though. Trust me. I got this. Hey, I respect you guys. Yeah, I know you do. I know you do. I'm stressed about posts sometimes. I keep it.
Yeah, but you have to think of those things, especially when you're making you know, something that you can't be, you know, John Woo or Ringo Lamb, where they're just setting up fucking 10 cameras and spraying coverage everywhere and going, we'll find it in post. Like I've been there before. We've all been there before where you have to be so exacting and know editing enough to know.
all right i can sit here and on this master you know and and get uh you know get kevin and yaya you know in this master for the entire scene, or we can just get this little piece because I know that I'm going to be cutting to her going up into the rafters or in the other room or, you know, or Taggart's going to show up or, you know, like you need to know these things because that could cost you.
And I don't want to get into the kind of real meat and potatoes of the movie itself, but that could cost you a location. Now, the last video store is. For all intents and purposes, aside from the fake movies that you made with the little interstitials and everything, or the stuff that was like outside the store, the movie is really does take place in the video store itself. And this feels like looking at.
preceded this film, this film feels like the final thesis to what you guys have been building up towards, which was not just a loving homage to the video store culture, but also to all these movies that we grew up with. And that made an impact on us. Some of us. Let that impact affect us. And then we went off and we did, you know, we made our own careers. Some of us, you know, that impacted us and made us create a store that we can turn into a domicile for our love.
And I love that. So before we get into all of that, I wanted to know from each of you. what was a movie that made you go i want to make movies or i want to be involved in movies or i want to open up a store and make movies and be on camera and kill fucking people like what what was for each of you what was that movie if if you can pick just one
Alright, I'll go first. Oh, you go, you go, Kevin. Alright, well, you know what? This isn't my, real quick, my favorite movie of all time is Jaws. But that's not, that's not the movie. Ten-year-old me. Return of the Living Dead. Saw the right age. Yes.
That movie, I always recommend it. It's still one of my bestsellers, especially to kids trying to get into horror movies. I said it's a gateway movie if you want to get into genre, because at 10 years old, it's scary, but it's kind of funny too, so you're okay. It was a perfect... splatter like
I guess, prototype in a way, you know, because it was like right around that time that you had Reanimator and Evil Dead 2 and Return of the Living Dead, maybe Friday 4 and 5, where they were installing a sense of humor into the film. that I don't think everyone got at the time. But the more and more we were all able to cultivate that tone, thanks to video stores and thanks to being able to rent these movies and not wait for them to be on HBO or...
you know, sneak into a movie theater that wasn't really benefiting anybody but ourselves. Like Return of the Living Dead to me was always one of the best gateway movies, not just for splatter, but even just for horror, because you can. suck them, you know, suck them in with the, you know, the funny and you know, Linnea Quigley's constant nudity, those socks, man, those fucking leggings.
god damn it's so fucking hot um but then you realize that there are moments that dan o'bannon was eliciting eliciting true terror you know and One of my greatest moments that I'll never forget, like, you know, I mentioned before. on the show that, you know, the Chuck Russell's The Blob was the movie that made me want to make movies, right? That was the one that I saw in the theater, but then I would just rent the shit out of on video.
One of the things that I miss from the video store culture was when the posters were coming out of circulation. So they would have the box of posters, the free posters.
littered my entire house with all of those fucking posters and the I actually waited in you know like at the video store before it opened because i knew that on tuesday that's when they recycle the posters i waited the day that the blob poster was getting pulled down from the marquee and snatch that shit up and put that the motherfucker on the wall so fast.
The reason why I bring that up is because Tony Gardner did the effects for that. And he also did the effects for return or some of the effects. He was the guy that came up with the idea of having the moving spinal cord for the woman that's like strapped to the slab and have it drip that clear spinal fluid. That shit gave me nightmares.
years because i would i'd never seen anything like that before i'm like that's what comes out of a spine holy fuck it was truly terrifying but you're right like that that that was one of those movies that like It was such a like a perfect. way in for me, not just from a fan level, but also on a filmmaking level to see like, that's kind of my tape.
Like it would, there's nothing that's better than to throw return on whether it's during Halloween or July 3rd, because that's when the movie takes place. And we all just, you know, I love on, on social media when everyone starts. putting that that title card up and you go like all right there's gonna be a couple people to watch it
But to expose that to new, to new people too, who might not be into horror movies, that's a perfect gateway movie for that, that reason, you know? So excellent choice, sir. All right, boys. Real quick, Joe. No, no, please. It just dawned on me. You might have noticed in the movie, the Easter egg of the address of the fake video store is 10815. You need to have it. I knew it. Yes. Yes.
Boys ask me, they're like, what's an address? So the numbers are my real address. I'm like, how about you need a... Fucking perfect. All right, Cody, Tim, what was that movie for you? I mean, maybe not in like a realistic for scope, but at least what inspired me when I was quite young would have been Terminator 2 for sure. Yeah, just classic Terminator 2. I definitely rented that a lot and watched that quite a lot.
Well, that was just one of those movies because, you know, like when you, when you take the original film, you know, this was at a time where, you know, I mean, you could even say that Jim Cameron was a master at being able to make a sequel that like. bent the genre in a way because the terminator the first one is yes it's steeped in sci-fi histronics but that's a horror movie you know that's a techno slasher yeah exactly it's techno noir it's it's a slasher movie with a new kind of spin
And then he flips the script the way he flipped the script on aliens. And he made a heartfelt sci-fi adventure film. You know, yes, it's got, you know, it's got some horror tropes in it as well. And there's some scary moments, but like it. It was that movie that elevated the game on so many levels. Yeah, how he humanized Arnold, I think, when I was younger. It's quite, yeah, just the effects and whatnot. But I think for filmmaking, Desperado.
like the robert rodriguez like rebel with other crew i think we definitely took that for the last video store because it's like what do you have in front of you and it's like well we have a video store we got kevin The five-minute movies. No, sorry. Yeah, the five-minute how-tos. Film schools. Yeah, that he would make for the Laserdiscs. Because I was a huge fan, and I still am, of Rodriguez.
But anytime that he would make one of those, like, of course, I'm taking notes and shit like that because like he. He was so, and I hope that someday people give him more respect. He really did maybe even more than a lot of his contemporaries, you know, at the advent of the. Sundance boom. You know, yes, you had your Soderberghs and your Allison Anders and your Kevin Smiths and your Linkletters and your Tarantinos, but no one, none of those guys, maybe other than Linkletter.
made you feel like, well, if he can do what I can do. You know, there was something about like the guy fucking. put his body through egregious scientific harm. To be able to make his movie. Yeah. You can't not like give respect to that. And then to go from. that and then essentially remake you know that movie very much the way that sam raimi did with evil dead to evil dead 2 he essentially did a like requel to his el mariachi by making a
Still, you know, in the studio standards, a very low budget film. But when you go from El Mariachi to Desperado. The level up in quality and like being able to give a kid, you know, the candy store to play with. Like, I'll never forget that soundtrack when he says, let's play. Like the whole crowd went fucking nuts. And even though they killed most of the other dudes in the span of 30 seconds.
I had seen shit. I remember that came out in August of, was it 94? And like, I remember being in that theater going. I was transfixed because I'd never seen action that fucking amazing. The whole scene in the bar when they're trying to reload their guns again and trying to find clips. Like you don't think that way, but he was such an inspiration for so many people. And I hope that someday like he gets even more respect out of that. Okay, Tim, what was yours?
uh i would say i mean i've seen a lot of movies when i was young my mother was like a very like predominant member of many video stores so like she would come home with so many movies and my bedroom had like a sight line where they couldn't see me and i could watch the tv but i think the one that really set me on the path of like could i do that is that like
something i could pursue is is that what my dream is actually it was definitely um american werewolf in london yeah oh god for a second i thought you were gonna say paris i'm like oh all right so the interview tim's gonna go uh the like the american werewolf in london for me it's just like I had seen some horror movies. You know, I had seen The Fly way too young. I had seen The Thing. I had seen all these different movies, but none of them.
You know, they always had this horror tone, but none of them had really bounced between being genuinely heartfelt. genuinely funny and genuinely horrific. In a way that like really sang to me like American Werewolf in London does like. you know, that transformation scene and all that amazing work by like Rick Baker and his team, like really set me down the path of like, Oh, I can be a special effects artist. And then the more I seen that, that like how that movie, like.
portrayed those two friends and like the love that they had for each other and like how that like transcended death and all of these like really like you know just really like warm moments in what is normally like a like a visceral experience like a horror movie it doesn't sacrifice any of those things at any time to to complete the whole picture and you know i we tried to kind of tap into a little bit of that with the last video store and kind of like.
take that essence and i think you know all the movies for the rest of my career i i i will owe to that sensibility that it's just like that's that's what i want because real life is like that you know like a horror comes with a laugh and a tear and, you know, a well-timed hug, even if you're friends of ghosts. That's a great segue into where I want to go to next, but like off of American Werewolf.
That movie lives or dies on the opening five minutes when they're walking on like, you know, down that long winding road during the day. And they're just talking about old girlfriend. And Griffin Dunn is wiping his nose in a weird sort of way. It feels so organic. And if you don't have that scene, it's funny because, you know, like Landis and I had become friends in years since. And, you know, we've.
I've shown him all my movies and he gives me really like good notes or he just tells me to go fuck myself and I should just hang things up. That's classic Landis. But I kept asking him about, you know, I would always ask him about American Werewolf and he had mentioned one time that the studio.
at universal when he had a deal there they were like that first five minutes gotta go like you should just have them you know do a little montage and get them to the uh to the the pub as soon as possible and he's like I guarantee you that if we don't have that opening scene and if we don't have them singing on the moors, you know, before the wolf.
howls in the night, then the rest of the movie is dead because then you don't care about either of those characters. You know, Griffin Dunn on paper, his character.
is is a douchebag you know but yet he instills so much warmth in it because he feels like a real guy and you need that and that's the thing that i think really does build the last video store into something really heartfelt because Nyla and Kevin have such a wonderful relationship and the fact that she's you know holding on to the secret about her dad and you know and the fact that kevin is like you know kind of holding on to what's left of this store and the fact that he's you know
made me think like i could just if you guys wanted to link letter the shit out of this movie and just take all of the horror stuff and the you know the possessed videotape and all that out and if it was just these two in a kind of um Wayne Wang smoke sort of way, just hanging out at the video store and just chatting things up, and eventually all these secrets come out, I would have been totally happy. And that was what was so important about this.
you know, with this movie. And then we get into all the really cool fucking shit. Before we get into the really cool fucking shit. Kevin, I wanted to ask you because you are front and center in this movie the whole way, which kind of bothers me a little bit, because when you look at the cast list, you're like all the way down the list. And I'm like, motherfucker should be number one on the call sheet because like. If you don't have your character and I hate to say it, but.
you know, the video store clerk as a construct. is usually a you know kind of smarter than thou a little hoity-toity a little a little movie snobby he's always a foil you know or he's always like the comic relief that gets like shit on in one form or another Alex Ross Perry, the filmmaker, made this three-hour epic video essay called Video Heaven.
um that uh is going around festivals right now i hopefully it'll be coming out this year but it literally it's like two out no it's two hours and 45 minutes maya hawk is the narrator and he goes through everything about the video store culture, but also the video store culture in movies and how it was like, well, here's a way station for us to be able to talk about movies because they're at a video store. And what is the video store clerk's job in the plot or whatever?
And your character, you know, kind of playing a heightened version of yourself is the heart and soul of the movie. So, you know, you guys had worked with Kevin before. Was there, like, was it always that Kevin was going to be in this movie? Were you like, well, you know, I think we're going to have to go with George Clooney or we're not going to get the movie funded? And for you, Kevin, what was it like going, oh, shit, like, I'm going to be the star of this movie?
Go ahead, Gus. I'm here just real quick. It always had to be Kevin. It was always about... just making movies with your friends and then just what we had created previously and i think like even thinking about it outside of kevin which has just been outside of our our comfort zone as well like on a first feature So it just, I couldn't imagine it without him. And just regardless of like, you know, we would have done it for pennies if that was the case in one way or another.
For me, I told the guys going into it because the movie was not shot in my real store, of course. We shot the other side of the country and rebuilt the set to the dimension. But I was prepared if they said, hey, Kev, you know, it's been a blast all these years doing the shorts. But, you know, it's not our money and they want to get somebody more pretty. I don't know. But. But it was, it meant the world for me, the guys to stick with me.
Because, you know, if I would have said, hey, when you're 47, you're going to you're going to be a lead in this Andy Horner because I'd accept it, Joe, that like I'm content just talking about movies in my real store and inspire.
you know like making the shorts here all the years with just friends that's one thing and then day one on the set of the video store movie um there's like you know 10 people behind the camera staring at me they don't know who the fuck i am like i'm like oh shit they think i'm an actor actor so i'm like It was a little bit nerve wracking, but if it's a one and done, you know what? Some people have kids, sleep their legacy. I made a video store about here's what I did for my life with them on.
And the thing is, though, you like and, you know, to to wax your car a little bit. you come off so natural, even when you know that like, okay, you know, they're kind of taking the piss out of me or at least my character a little bit. You know, you need. What's funny is that that character, that version of Kevin is both like the hero and sometimes the foil and sometimes, you know, like the butt of many jokes, but both for the movie and for the situations that you're in. And yet.
You can't not want to root for him and both of them this entire time. Movies like this, whenever you deal with mysterious... videotapes or movie reels or whatever that now make these characters come to life. It sometimes becomes about that more than anything else. And it becomes the gimmick. Now that said. the movies, the fake movies that you guys made for this.
um are fantastic like the all the different names all the different like genres that you're paying tribute to all of that stuff is is like it's perfect in in the way that you've like recreated it I will mention this and I got to ask, because what is what's the name of the the one title that is basically the predator? Oh, my.
okay was was the creature that because the creature does come to life in the store and start stalking them Was the creature designed after the Jean-Claude Van Damme design in the original Predator? To hear the rest of this episode, go to patreon.com slash themoviecrypt. For only $1 a month, you'll get every new episode, every Monday, downloaded right to your podcast app of choice.