Hi, I'm filmmaker and Movie Crypt host, Joe Lynch. And I'm Becca Howard, a writer, editor, and person. And thank God it's... Tuesday? No, I mean technically I know it's Tuesday, but this is for a couple of old fashions. Oh, so you want me to lie and pretend it's Friday? Well... Cinema is lies at 24 frames per second. Going for Goddard quotes already. Really going to be lining them up for that one. There's no need to. Thank God it's. Run! As it were.
Hi! Well, no matter what day you're listening to this, we're here to talk to you about a couple of old-fashioned... a new limited series subsidiary of the Movie Crit Podcast. As you may or may not know, at our first date, Joe and mine, We each brought a surprise movie that neither of us had prior warning of. I brought My Man Godfrey, a 1936 screwball classic. And I brought Lucio Fulci's...
The New York Ripper. And true love was born. And now, a few years later, we're married. And more importantly, we're co-hosting this new series together. Every Friday at midnight, a new episode featuring yours truly. will drop via the Movie Crypt Patreon account. Each episode has a unique theme for that week's movie marathon. We both bring a surprise title that neither of us know about, and we watch them together. Off screen.
Yeah, no one wants to just watch us watch movies for hours on end. I mean, that's what Slumber Party Massacre is. Anyway... We then discuss the movies together with a couple of old-fashioned cocktails. Having a couple of old-fashioned conversations with our old-fashioned dog, Rocco. What we liked or didn't like about each other's pics. Whether they worked together or didn't work together.
The movies, right? Not us? Yes. This isn't a litmus test that just never ends. Anyway, we would love to invite you guys all to join us on our double-feature date night.
at the movies. And let us know what you think of our picks and what you guys would have brought to the marathon. Our first episode's theme is one night only which may also be how long the whole show lasts and that one is already up on our podcast and available to listen to or watch or both at the same time for free if you like what you see and hear Going forward, the episodes will drop every Friday at midnight and will be only three bucks an episode to ask.
Three bucks? Geez, I can get three Taco Tuesday tacos for that amount. Well, that's the lowest amount you can set a price at on Patreon. Surely you have to be worth at least three bucks. Nah, I'm a ten cents a dance kind of girl. Not anymore, right? Okay, well we hope to see you here every Friday for a couple of old-fashioned movies, a couple of old-fashioned conversations, a couple of old-fashioned cocktails, and a couple of old-fashioned people. Now back to Taco Tuesday.
No, remember, it's Friday. Oh, yeah. Lying. I mean, cinema is lies at 24 frames. Thank God it's Friday. As it were. So be sure to tune into... A Couple of Old Fashions with Becca and Joe, right here on the Movie Crypt Network. And now on to the show. And welcome to another edition of The Movie Crypt. I'm Joe Lynch. And that's all you get this time, because obviously, as we all know, Adam is on assignment. But I hear it's going great.
And no, there are no sharks in the movie. I will say this, that Adam is probably listening to this because he is incredibly jealous that he is not here for our next guest. This is someone that I've wanted to have on the show since we first met. And this happens a lot.
You know, we are traversing through the industry and we meet friends, we meet fellow collaborators, we meet people that we admire. And, you know, after I get through my cachet of really nerdy questions about their work, I usually sit there and go. Can I ask him to be on the movie crypt? Because I know that if I'm interested in those things, I know that all of you are into those things.
And this is someone that is a representative of a company and a basically a mission statement that I have been in love with since. 1994, when I walked into a Long Island, not a rental house, not a video store, but an audiovisual reseller. that had this section called the Criterion Collection section. And they probably thought they were very clever when putting that up. And it was all of these Laserdiscs that I was obsessed with at the time. I needed to have a Laserdisc player.
Around that time. And it was mainly for one type, no, two titles. One was Citizen Kane and two was Taxi Driver. And I had never seen. a company or just any kind of outfit that showed so much love and care into films, both old and at the time, maybe a little bit newer. I remember walking into this place and...
Seeing the taxi driver disc, flipping it over and going, oh my God, all of the special features. And what the hell is a commentary track? Like I was frankly just blown away by the breath of. care that went into the transfer and all the special features which now have become kind of uh tantamount to any physical media release And it really just blew me away. And from then on, I was a...
a Criterion Collection convert and a disciple of them. And I wanted to just, before I bring our guest on, who's staring at me because I'm doing it over video, I just wanted to kind of talk about the mission statement. And this is something that I remember seeing years ago and it's on their website.
So I thought, you know, if you are a purveyor of physical media, I'm sure you know the name Criterion Collection or maybe know the Criterion Channel, their digital streaming offshoot. But here's their mission statement. Since 1984, the Criterion Collection has been dedicated to publishing important classic and contemporary films from around the world in editions that offer the highest technical quality and award-winning original supplement.
no matter the medium, from Laserdisc to DVD, Blu-ray 4K Ultra HD to streaming, Criterion has maintained its pioneering commitment to presenting each film as its maker would have wanted it seen in state-of-the-art restorations with special features designed to encourage repeated watching and deepening the viewer's appreciation for the art of film. And I'm sure that anyone listening to this has at least seen one of their presentations.
Or if you're like me, have hundreds of their movies, whether it's on Laserdisc, which I still have. I still have my Laserdisc or Blu-ray or DVD or for a 4K Ultra. Well, I wanted to bring this guest on, so please welcome to the Movie Crypt, Curtis Choi. Dude, I'm so happy that you took the time out on a Saturday to talk to me about this.
about some of the latest releases that you're doing. I want to get a little bit into the closet, which has become a kind of viral sensation. But how is it going on your side? It's been great. It's been super busy. First off, terrific to hang out here in this way with you, Joe. And I know we've been trying to meet up again since the time you visited the office and it just hasn't really worked out. So it's good to talk to you. We've always had great chat.
But yeah, it's been incredibly busy of late. I have to... Say a lot of times now, I'm probably working more on channel material than disc material. So the schedule tends to be a lot more breakneck in a certain kind of way. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, we... I think in terms of a production window, it's much tighter. So that makes sense though, especially because with, you know, with, with criterion collection discs, a lot of times.
I'm sure many people who are listening to this now get the newsletter where when you guys announce your next four titles and then the internet goes wild and the social medias start freaking out, going like, oh my God. Sean Baker's and Nora's box, you know, looks like something from an old Italian horror film. I love the stir that it causes, but it's usually, you know.
few months out but having done dvd special features and production myself back in the trauma days You know, the turnaround time is longer because there's the authoring, there's the actual manufacturing of the discs, whereas with. special features on you know a streaming platform i did a bunch for
uh, both mayhem and suitable flesh on shutter. And it was literally like, all right, you have two weeks to get this done, but we just push a button and it goes right up, you know? So exactly the turnaround can be crazy, but the. The way to distribute it is, you know, is exciting because it goes out to everybody and it goes out immediately.
Yeah, and I kind of appreciate the workflow of it in that it does, A, keep me really busy, and B, it... pace that suits me in the sense that i like to i like to be constantly busy in a certain kind of way i mean sometimes it's a little overwhelming when you end up having say two or three intros that you're working on at the same time, and juggling that with a disc on occasion. But it's, you know, I'm just happy to be able to do these kind of deep dives into different films.
and different film movements. It's been, you know, we're all constantly learning, I think. And, you know, when I end up getting to work with some of the people that I have worked with. whether it's on the channel or on a disc, I do tend to find that I end up getting a lot of information that I didn't have before.
And it's rewarding. Essentially, you're a cinematic archaeologist. If you think about it, because there are those moments, I'm sure, because I did the same thing. I don't know if I told you this story. And I felt like Indiana Jones in that scene in the opening of Raiders of the Lost Ark when this happened. But when I first started out at Troma.
And when you work at Troma, they hire you as the quote-unquote head writer because the guy named James Gunn just left. They're like, oh yeah, you can have his closet of an office. But you're not just doing... writing you're also doing whatever the fuck they have to throw at you so they threw this was right at the point this is 98 and this is right when trauma started doing these huge
kind of criterion ask special edition DVDs of a lot of their old titles where they like Lloyd would just go, how much shit can we put on a disc? All right. Put more. And you know what? As a fan, I was like, oh, my God, I never thought that I would ever be able to see five hours of Toxic Avenger footage. That was a dream come true. But then they started expanding out to some of their smaller titles or some of their acquisition titles.
So they gave me rabid grannies. I did a bunch of them, like Combat Shock. I have that Combat Shock disc. I have to trust you. All right. Have you watched it? Oh yeah, of course. All right. So you're not going to kill me over the fact that I, I did some like, do you remember combat Jacques, the combat chef? Yes. My apologies. I'm sorry for anybody who had to watch that. That is horribly outdated and maybe a little racist.
But you know what? At the time at Troma, it was like, whatever, throw anything at the wall and see what happens. Yeah. And it's, it's true. It's true to what trauma was. Exactly. You know, I think a little bit. A little a little bit, you know, ultra or whatever. I never thought I would be able to get away with a joke called, you know, where the combat jock says like, oh, we're making VC schwa right now. I'm like, oh, Jesus. So dead. But anyway.
So they gave me rabid grannies. And I remember rabid grannies from back in the day on the VHS shelf like everybody else. I started poking around and I found on an old... message board that someone, and this always happens to it. There's always found footage or old reels in some grandmother's or some aunt's closet in fucking Ohio. Right? So someone found. hours and hours of reels all on i think it was on 30 no it was on 16.
And they just sent it to trauma. And after I inquired, they said, here, you can have it. We're going to throw it out. So I find this stuff and I actually... broke into NYU's Tisch editing department because the security guard was a huge fan of Coma. That's not easy to do.
No, I don't think that's an easy thing to do. I don't know how I did it, but I ended up, oh no, I do know how I did it. I met the security guard and told him I was with Troma. He goes, I love Sergeant Kabuki, man. So I gave him a blue, like a DVD. And he let me in there for six hours. So I essentially. went in there and it was like that, that scene in cannibal Holocaust, which was also in NYU where the guy's checking through footage. And I found all of the uncut.
because when the movie came out, it was, you know, the R-rated cut. I didn't realize how much they had cut out. And that I remember that moment. And I felt like this is what it must feel like when. you know, you are one of these archivists or these producers that gets all this footage and goes, I've uncovered a gold mine. Now for the five fans of rabid grannies, I made them incredibly happy, but there was something so exciting about.
Films, you know, whether they are Citizen Kane or Rabid Grannies or everything in between, when you do find these stems or these extensions of the creative process, it becomes like gold. I'm in complete agreement. It's regardless of whether we're talking about highbrow cinema, quote-unquote lowbrow cinema, what have you, we're talking about work that a lot of people put into film and to be able to make sure that everything gets seen or things that have never seen the light of day.
are now revealed. It's a remarkable experience. And I think we also need to remember that Sometimes the folks that worked on these movies have never had an opportunity to see those things. And when they get a chance to see that, whether it's through a rep screening out here that say programs a movie that hasn't ever seen the light of day or through a disc.
You're bringing memories back for these folks that ended up working on a movie. And it's kind of special to find out that something like that ended up happening. Listen, kudos to you. I think that that's great. that you were able to find that stuff. Although when you invoked Raiders, I was wondering when's, when's the boulder going to start rolling after you? And you know what? That's probably either the filmmaker or the distributor going, you can't show that stuff, you know, like who knows?
I want to, all right, so I want to go back a little bit because I think when it comes to. The amount of care that I know you put into every, you know, you and then, you know, you as also representative of the company. the care that you put into these films, you kind of have to be a lover of cinema in general, of cinema theory, of cinema appreciation, of the filmmaking process as well. And you don't have to, I'm sure.
you don't like every film that that you know that the company puts out but it, you know, that there is an audience for, you know, everything from Onibaba to multiple maniacs, you know, like the, the, the, the, the breath. of the audience appreciation for all these films like you said highbrow lowbrow and everything in between but when when it comes to you know you can't do this job unless you love movies so i wanted to ask Where did you find your love of movies?
When you were a kid or maybe later, who knows, but where, what was the spark of cinema appreciation for you? Right. It was considerably later actually, because when I was a kid, you know, honestly, my parents had a pretty strict. media.
quota in terms of when I could take it as a kid oh yeah they neither of my parents are cinephiles and I don't say this in any kind of derogatory way it was just something that they never really got into so if I went to movies it tended to be larger Hollywood pictures, which I'm not throwing bricks at because we're talking about stuff like...
Indiana Jones movie so things like that things that still linger with me uh and I grew up in a pretty small town in Virginia so it's not like I had a whole lot of options in terms of what I could see I don't think I saw a subtitled film until I went to college That might have been the very first time I saw a subtitle film. And that's where the damage was done. When I ended up going to college. I was supposed to study to be a doctor. I have a BS in biology. Nothing, you know, my undergrad.
Degree is not in film. And I spent a lot of time when I should have been studying organic chemistry in the library watching. VHSs, and then Criterion LaserDiscs. When a friend ended up pointing out those Criterion LaserDiscs and Taxi Driver was there, Blade Runner was there, Close Encounters was there. I spent far too many hours looking at those and that coupled with the local art house and dollar theater and the cinematech at the school. That's where I think.
things broadened where I finally was like, oh, now I'm starting to watch. actual french films or japanese film or german films not to say that these are the only ways that you can get into movies but it just ended up being something where everything was broadened in a way that i hadn't noticed before After that, I don't know if I would still say that.
this was where I knew I was going to pursue that path necessarily. But I made a decision to, after graduating, work in film production and did so in Texas for a couple of years. And when I went down there... I joined up with some people that were doing a fanzine called Hong Kong Film Connection. And I think the first time I moved down there, I was finding Hong Kong, contemporary Hong Kong movies, not rep films, but stuff that had just played in Hong Kong, playing at a local theater.
So I was able to see newer stuff. What time is this? This was 94, 95. Oh, so we're in like the Sui Hawk, the Ringo Lamb, the John Woo era. Exactly. And, you know, I think the first thing that I ended up seeing in a theater within about a week of moving down there was a Michelle Yeoh movie that was not great called Wonder 7.
Hey, wait a second. Hold on. Not a bad movie. Not bad. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying in the grand scheme of what was there, it wasn't my favorite in relation to what I'd been exposed to already. But, you know, the fact that I could end up seeing these things opened up the gates in a way. And then one of my friends that I ended up making over there.
Ended up turning me on to a lot of Japanese films. A guy named Joey O'Brien. He does some screenwriting. He co-wrote a Hong Kong action movie called Motorway. That's really quite good. Yeah. Once that happened and I realized, oh, I have access to these movies that don't have official distribution in the States. That was huge too. You know, once you start getting turned on to video search in Miami.
Oh, yeah. And Luminous Film and Video works at all these, let's say for what it is, bootleg VHS companies, where at that time, you couldn't get a legit copy of, say, the czech film daisies now you can via the criterion collection at that time i had to get a bootleg vhf So looking at movies there and then realizing, oh, movies aren't just what's playing in the theaters, but it's also... the whole universe of material out there.
That's just waiting to be discovered and subtitled, hopefully by somebody else. That was huge. That's funny that you mentioned that because that same bootleg outlet was where, because I worked at a video store and we all have our kind of churches in a way or even our like.
Dark back rooms in the church where we end up finding like, oh, this is an outlet where I can get things that, you know, normally I wouldn't be able to get elsewhere because it doesn't have main distribution or even indie distribution. So, you know. There was a video store in Long Island called 112 Video. That was essentially the Kims of Long Island.
It was a guy's private collection that he decided to monetize by opening up a video store. And that same distribution company that sold you those bootleg VHSs sold the same to us. So I worked there for two years, but that was how we would be able to see anything from... Like the early J-horror stuff or even like the early, you know, like Kurosawa films.
to even just anime, you know, way too many Yorosuke Doji Legend of the Overfiend films that you wouldn't be able to never be able to get otherwise. And there was an added level of danger when you would see those movies, you know, like where you can be like, oh shit, I shouldn't be watching this right now. Not just maybe for the content, but for the fact that it's like, it's a little on the down low, you know? Yeah. Like that was exciting.
I agree I mean there was a thrill to being able to watch something that felt like it was a little you know a little bit dangerous to do so a lot of the material would be genuinely transgressive in a lot of ways that would be very, very surprising. You know, it's like when you end up seeing a number of these films, it's like, Oh my God. Do you remember, do you remember guts of a virgin?
That was the Japanese stuff. Yeah. Like the pink, the pink films. I, I didn't know. And there was part of me that was like, pink you say like like that sounds interesting but the the ideas behind them you'd go how the fuck did they even get these made Well, I have to tell you, if I'm a rabid viewer of something in particular now, it still tends to be Japanese pink films because A.
They're quite short. They're between 60 and 80 minutes. B, the amount of creativity that goes into them, if we're talking about stuff in particular from, say, the 70s, 80s, where they were shooting on film. They were trying out directors who would go on to mainstream careers like, say, Kiyoshi Kurosawa, people like that. The cinematography is phenomenal. And just to see how each one of these directors works within a context of. You've got to do a movie that has a sex scene every six minutes.
And then after that, we don't care what you do. So when you end up seeing what all these creatives come up with, it's some of the wildest stuff. I just heard you have a guest who appeared on a very recent episode, Zach Clark.
yeah good buddy of mine i handed him i was just at a an event with him a handful of days ago we were talking about pink movies and i was just like oh man you want to see what that's incredible it's called beast man it's a werewolf big movie and you're not going to believe what you're watching oh and i i gave him a copy of it and he flipped yeah i mean he uh just that sounds like um there was a charlie band movie that came out back in the 90s with sherilyn fenn called meridian
and oh yeah yeah and and i was like oh my god i can jerk off to a werewolf holy shit i don't have to do i don't have to use my my bram stoker's dracula disc anymore this is gonna be great hairy guys unite this is do you remember um Bunman or The Untold Story? That was another one. I'm a huge Untold Story fan, actually. Between that and Ebola Syndrome, those were two that at the time when I was working at that video store, those were the ones where we would go like...
And there was a thrill to pass those things along to... You know, sometimes very inviting members or viewers. And then some would be like, oh, I'm going to ruin their weekend. Oh, shit. You know, because they're like, oh, yeah. Oh, I heard about this. You know, this. who I will not name because he's a famous interviewer and he does not rhyme with Marley Hose, but he would come in all the time and he would keep asking for Oriental film. And I was like and I gave him I gave him Ebola syndrome.
And I never saw him again. They either told me to, they probably changed my shift around because he probably complained, but the thrill of giving him Ebola syndrome thinking like, Oh, this is going to just. fuck him up so bad. Oh, it was a joy. It was a total joy.
You know, bringing up those two movies as an aside, a really... fun treat for me was maybe about a year ago i worked on the criterion disc for heroic trio and executioners and the lead actor anthony wong who's in all those category three actors right he he agreed to sit down for an interview. So I have a very short interview with Anthony Wogg. What was your life? Well, I had to do it remote. He was in Hong Kong. I was in New York. But he was still a suffer no fools. Absolutely.
No BS. He had no real qualms about being completely candid in a way that I think folks are not really allowed to be. Also because I think his career... was put on hold a little bit in Hong Kong, i.e. maybe even stopped a bit because he was very vocal about the pro-democracy movements in Hong Kong.
And it got him in a certain amount of trouble. I think he's starting to work again now. And it's great. He's in the new Emmanuel movie. Really? I don't know if you know. Yeah. It's like, I don't even know if I will necessarily like it.
uh that's correct i know i have not seen this but the fact that anthony wong is in it already they won a lot of points with me for casting him you know what i mean it's like yeah okay you're guaranteed to get my eyeballs i i'm when i already saw it like you know i think it's streaming in a couple places and i'm like oh yeah do i you know because i'm a huge fan of the original series sure but not like
i i like when i saw it i'm like oh come on you know like how are they going to be able to you know match some of the who's it damato that directed a lot of the emmanuel's back in the day I think it was just Jackin. If I remember correctly, I would have to double check.
it certainly wasn't all of them and then if you start talking about like the quote-unquote black amandy wells you're talking about a different uh oh yeah different breed all together uh Let me, let me just, just because I'm, I'm, I'm very curious, you know. Yeah, it was definitely just Jacob with the first one anyway. All right. So this is the problem with us talking right now. I've gotten through one of my questions. So I'm going to be a little more succinct.
Um, no, fuck that. This is, this is our time. I mean, yeah, and also I, I, I am, I am guilty of going on digression. But when you... invited us when Becca and I got to go and take the tour. I think we ended up stopping and talking along the way. You were probably like, usually those, those tours take about 10, 15 minutes. Ours took like 90 because we just like would stand next to something or get into the laser disc area and shit like that. Next thing you know, like I'm just.
And this is one that I want to bring up because this was one that I think a lot of genre dorks, because at the time when Criterion, I'm talking in the early 90s. Other than, like you mentioned before, like... Close Encounters of the Third Kind. When you think about the elevated genre that that movie brought, it was kind of a forlorn conclusion that it would get that kind of attention, that kind of reverence.
But then it was when the one-two punch within like a couple of years of each other, but the one-two punch of. and the seven-sided David Fincher's Seven collection. which I, I walked around like it was the fucking, like, like it was the Ark of the Covenant. I'm like, check this shit out. Like, but it was the fact that Criterion embraced, not even embraced, just acknowledged. Genre cinema that of course everybody knows what Halloween was, but never before had we ever seen.
care and attention that went into that the first time that i actually got that that disc was not on a disc it was the bootleg at a weekend of horrors because i didn't have a laser disc player at the time but it was the first time that i had seen Halloween and widescreen.
and yeah i mean everybody no one saw it like like like widescreen unless it played at a rep theater and if that it was probably a shitty print but it knocked my fucking socks off because I had, you know, for the longest time, it was all four by three and.
I just never saw anything like that. I never saw the stuff with Loomis in the extended scenes that got used from the school in the TV version, the interviews. I was... floored and it to be honest it was the moment that i remember going like all right criterion collection is for us before it felt a little bit um you know uh hoity-toity in a way where it's like of course they're gonna have
you know, Citizen Kane and, you know, a lot of and Raging Bull and a lot of the, you know, more kind of prestige films. But now they've, I don't want to say they've lowered down to our level, but they've shown, no, they've lifted up genre in a way that I don't think anyone expected. And that I remember. That disc, that, you know, that moment being a moment where we felt respected as horror fans, you know, that was a big moment for us.
Yeah, I mean, you know, this was still from back in the days when I was a fan rather than a part of the company. But I mean, the release that actually prompted me to get a player was the Laserdisc of John Woo's The Killer. Oh, that's such a good disc too. So huge. It was incredibly well produced and just had... tons of contents on there but not even just the the tons of content issues the movie looked great yeah
And better than anything that I had seen on any bootlegs, that's for sure. Although I was one of the ones who was lucky enough to have seen a theatrical release of that movie too. But to be able to enjoy it at home in a proper way was... stellar. So yeah, that was the thing that made me get the disc. I was in Long Island when Hard Boiled came out.
And this was at a time where it's like I had to choose my New York City excursions very wisely because my parents didn't like the fact that I would go into the city just to go see a movie and come home. Because it was a two hour, two and a half hour commute each way. But I'm like, sure, I have to see Bad Lieutenant at the Angelica, you know, film center. It has to happen. I got to see Alien 3, you know, in Times Square with a crowd.
And when Hard Boiled came out and in Newsday, the local Long Island newspaper, when they gave it four stars, I was like, how can I not? go into the city to go to film forum, to go see hard boiled. And it, for the, I went to go see it and it fucking.
blew me away i see it with a crowd because i had seen the killer and uh a better tomorrow i saw those on vhs and i saw them at home you know and you don't get the chance to be like oh my god and like tell your friends like see that they just put the guns to each other like yes look look there's another dove you know like there's all those things that you wish you could experience with a crowd
And then to see it with a crowd and I wasn't supposed to be in there. The guy like, let me, I paid for a ticket, but he was like, you're too young to be in this movie. I'm like, yeah, come on. And he let me in and it just felt like I, like I snuck into a dangerous movie. And then next thing you know, you've seen Chow Yun fat, you know.
playing, you know, playing the clarinet. And I'm like, this is the greatest movie of all time. But then when it came out on like a bootleg VHS and import VHS, it looked like shit. So when the special edition came out. So I when I went to Syracuse, they had a. an AV library.
And I, as a work study program, I got to be the person who worked at the AV, you know, room. And I got to be the one who like would pull out all the discs and show people like, Oh, David Cronenberg's crashes on criteria. And who did he do? Right. That was a huge moment for me. You know, it was it was just the level.
of craftsmanship that went into these discs even at the time on Laserdisc but the fact that they we felt seen as genre fans when you can have you know a John Woo movie or pink flamingos you know well pink flamingos came later i think because i remember that sony had put out like a laser disc in the 90s that was like the anniversary anniversary edition but just the fact that that Whoever was picking these movies was doing it with an eye, not just for prestige.
but also for reverence of films that might not otherwise get the kind of attention that they deserve because they would be considered B movies or genre films or Z flicks, you know, like it, it meant so much to us as fans. Oh, absolutely. I mean, I remember distinctly when Dead Ringers came out in a really huge box set. That silver cover? Yeah. And it was a film that I absolutely adored. I mean, I'm a diehard Cronenberg guy.
You know, the fact that this movie, which had not done well financially, I mean, it got pretty strong reviews overall, you know, in the way that Cronenberg can be divisive. But, you know, it was a movie that... for all intents and purposes, would not have been something that you would expect. mainstream audiences to want to see. And yet all this care had been put into this.
laser disc set presented in what they call the CAV format which allows you to go frame by frame by frame as opposed to the CLV thing so you can really appreciate everything and the awesome twinning effects that Paul Smyre and Everett did. I think it was Paul Smyre and Everett.
It was, it was a stellar release. I mean, it was still one of those things that I remember. And I, even with seven, as you were talking about it, I remember saving up and getting that team all the, like when they would, you'd be able to flip through all of the Polaroids. Oh, my God. The design of the liners looking like the journal in there and also the fact that there were instructions.
about how to calibrate your TV. So you have the silver retention. So that you can try to mimic the silver retention aesthetic.
of the film which i don't think i was ever successful in doing but i like the fact that the option because no tv was able to actually do that like i talked to someone later on about that i think it was my dp on everly because he worked with um Darius Kanji and Kanji was like that's a gimmick you know like they can never do it but he's also a purist so of course he wants to see it in the theater in one of those
those versions. All right. Before we get to your involvement in Criterion, I do want to dispel or just throw out a rumor that I had heard. that I think permeated through the annals of geekdom in the late 90s. So I had heard a rumor, and this was at the time that I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Disney had a deal with Criterion for a certain disc. Because there was a rumor that Michael Bay put it in his contract that The Rock and Armageddon would get Criterion additions.
Okay. That predates me. So I can't confirm that when I joined the company at the end of 2000. It would have been the first thing that I asked if I went into an interview. Tell me all about Michael Bay.
Yeah, the Laserdisc for Armageddon had already been done. So I was not there during any of those Primo Michael Bay days. I will say... that if he did build it into his contract, I, for one, am very thrilled because I think that that Armageddon commentary is one of the finest commentary tracks I've ever heard. time yeah of all fucking time like that was the first time that i i mean any criterion disc because didn't seem like anybody else was had the forthwith or whatever to...
set a director down and do a real time commentary track. Now I know that the like, for example, I think the raging bull one was like excerpt. from a conversation with Scorsese that was kind of stitched together, but you don't even know because the guy talks so fucking much. Like it didn't even matter, you know, or the Thelma shoemaker. commentary but the fact that there was that there was nothing better than to feel like Michael Bay is sitting next to you making fun of Ben Affleck
on your couch watching Armageddon. Or complaining about the gloves, complaining about glove design, things like that. That was great. What you're describing is basically... the methodology for a lot of our multi-person commentaries, which is that we generally record them separately. We usually record them separately and decide how to intercut the material, take the strongest stuff.
and interweave it, intercut it into one single track. That isn't always the case. And I do realize that there's also a... the Underground Railroad, which was something I worked on recently, there were some episodes where Barry Jenkins was joined by his editor, Joy McMillan, and his cinematographer, James Laxon. They didn't come in for every single episode.
But on the ones they did, they were in the same space, the same studio at the same time and they could interact. But there are pros and cons to that. I've noticed one of which is that, you know, if people are stepping.
what they're saying sometimes you can lose a particular train of thought you need somebody to come back and try to complete it or you know they understandably get a little distracted in terms of just being reunited and maybe joke instead of going into something deeper, at which point I have to ask some questions after the session to try to get some material back in there. But I do like the energy of it, that's for sure. Yeah, the energy of having people in the room is one thing.
Uh, cause I did that, like my, my first commentary that I had done for one of my movies was wrong turn two. And it was me and Henry Rollins in the room together. And I like, I was still like, I just worked with you and I'm still like, Oh my God, it's Henry Rollins. And he is incredibly. film literate you know even though like and i love telling the story but like i asked him like what are your favorite movies he goes
Man Bites Dog and Caddyshack. I'm like, that's fucking Henry Rollins for you. But there wasn't there was an energy in the room. And look, I think. This conversation that we're having is a prime example of there is no dead space when it comes to conversations when you have that are engaging like this, but there is nothing worse. than listening to a commentary track and you hear the dead space. And even when you hear like.
the filmmaker or the art, the actor going, Oh, sorry guys. I was just, I was just watching. I was so enthralled. Like I can't stand it. I'm like, I could watch the movie on my own. Thank you. I want to hear what you have to say about the scene. So when you do have the. curated versions of the commentaries. Sometimes I prefer that for films that are a little bit on the older side because like.
I don't know if you remember this, but in the advent of DVD, like, you know, 97, 96, 97, when people started going, holy shit, we can do, put it all on this compressed disc. And they started getting everybody to do commentaries, but they were doing them. Like a week before the film came out so that the reviews haven't come in yet. Everyone's still back slapping going like.
So good in that they're not talking about how the film was received, the cultural impact of the film or lack thereof. So that was where I still kind of leaned on the way that Criterion did it in most cases was because. I, there was part of me that enjoyed the jumping in with the narrator saying like, and now we're talking to production designer, Carol Spear, you know, or, you know,
Director of photography, Peter Shushisky, David Cronenberg. Hearing those makes you a little bit more attentive to what you're listening to. And there's a particular reason.
why that moment has been that that like soundbite has been cut into that scene whereas yes and i've done it before too on suitable flesh like i think we talked to like someone threw out one question and then 40 minutes later I was like man I wanted to go back and talk about that opening scene you know but the moment's gone because it's done in real time you know so I think it's important that you take the time to Because people who listen to commentaries...
In most cases, there was that joke. I'm sure you've heard it before, too. It's like, if you're listening to the commentary while watching the film for the first time, stop right now. It's like that joke got old by 99, you know, because you would have to be a fucking moron to want to watch, you know. Stephen Norrington's Blade for the first time with a commentary track. You're not an idiot. But when you do go into...
The reverence of a film that is considered classic, like truth be told. So and this is a bit of a diatribe, but Becca and I have this new tradition now where we. We call it Saturday roast where we'll get Chipotle and watch a criterion disc. One of the many that you've provided for us. And today's is Pat Garrett and Billy, the kid, which I'm going to confess I've never seen before. Oh, oh, interesting. There are multiple versions on that one too. Which one should I watch? Well, this is the thing.
That's kind of hard to say because they're all interesting in their own ways. She's seen it many times and I confess to her, I'm like, I don't think I've ever seen it. She's like, what?
gosh if she's seen it multiple times then i think the version you should end up seeing would be hack and pause preferred version okay uh which was uncovered for that release i don't think it had ever seen the light of day frankly uh on old video until that one simply because she hasn't seen that version and then you can back Yay. Okay, good. All right. Now, getting us back on track, how did you get involved with Criterion?
After working in production in Texas, I ended up moving to New York and I was doing a combination of... production work and also studying some cinema studies over here. And then when a job that I had in an optical house, I think I was there. maybe about two, three years went under. This was the days when finishing a film on film were starting to trickle towards an end. I got word that there was an opening at Criterion for an associate producer position, which would be to...
assist the existing producers on their titles. So I applied and interviewed for that and got in. This was around the end of 2000. So this was roughly 25 years. Wow, dude. Holy shit. They haven't been able to get rid of you yet. Yeah, exactly. I think senior producer is just, you know, having been here for over a couple of years.
You were kind of in the trenches being able to assist whatever the producer is assigned to in terms of the film. I think this is a good point for us to say, like, all right, can you take us through the process? of what it takes to say like, well, here, let's start here. How does a film get curated or selected from the jump? Yeah, now that's hard for me to answer because I'm not involved with that part of the process. Where I come in.
Tends to be decisions have already been made about schedule, about what's been acquired, things like that. And then... You know, again, this is going back to when I was doing more discs, which is not as frequent anymore. But between all the producers and currently, I would say there are about eight or nine of them. we'll either be assigned to a particular title or we will... put our names forward as potentially people to work on something and depending on how the schedule works and
how things fit within a particular workflow, we'll end up doing it. So when I ended up starting as an associate producer, it was assisting some of the more senior producers, like there's one named Susan Aristeghe, who's worked on a lot of... the titles that you love. She was involved with the Seven Laserdisc, the Dead Ringer's Laserdisc. She did the Beauty and the Beast DVD.
Royal Tenenbaum. She's pretty much the Wes Anderson producer, the Alex Cox producer, things like that. So I worked with her a lot. She was the person who trained me. And then after about a year, I moved on into being a disc producer. I think maybe the first. special edition I did might have been In the Mood for Love. Oh, really? That was your first? Yeah. And then, you know, so I've done all the WonkaWire releases since. And a lot of times we end up...
As producers, we become kind of like the quote unquote ambassador for a particular filmmaker. Yeah. So I've done all the Bong Joon-ho stuff. I've done all this. Barry Jenkins films, all of the Kubricks. I love how Kubrick comes in third. You're like, with Barry, that Stanley guy. No big whoop, you know. And a lot of, like, honestly.
favorite genre stuff, like say Night of the Living Dead. I ended up doing our Night of the Living Dead edition. The Lone Wolf and Cubs sets, the Godzilla sets, What's Fun Time in China, Mr. Condors. That was so spectacular because I think so many people knew, you know, like. Genre fans still had Shogun Assassin to work off of. And when, again, that video store that I worked at.
um the owner was like oh i you like because i would throw on late at night i they would we have a laser disc player and i would throw shogun assassin because there's nothing better than just watching egregious amounts of blood splatter and arterial splay when you're putting discs away
And he's like, you haven't seen Lone Wolf and Cub. I'm like, what is that? Like, wait, I mean, is there more than just the one movie? He's like, oh, brother, let me show you. And he had, how many films are there? Six. there are six within that particular cycle there's six yeah yeah and he he just went here it was it was like the moment in almost famous where he's like this will set you free
I was blown away. So then, but that was all VHS. So the box set, when you guys brought that out, that was like, oh my God, it was like mana to being able to see. that in a proper because i don't think i've ever seen those projected before so seeing those in the proper way um was spectacular all right i want to really really quickly i'm gonna because you mentioned it um
With the Okja disc that you did. Right. Now that was, I remember that being a bit of a coup because at the time this was even before the Irishman. This was when, you know, people were like, wait a second, a Netflix movie gets. a criterion edition? How the fuck does that happen? Is that like... Like that feels like a paradox in a way. How did that work out? Well, again, that's something that I'm not totally privy to, but I don't even think Okja was the first one. I want to say.
That Noah Baumbach's film might have preceded the marriage story. I could be incorrect about what the trajectory is, but we had a couple of Amazon streaming things and Netflix.
projects pop up no you know what the first one was it was roma i'm pretty sure it was roma that makes sense that yeah that totally makes sense so it could be because of filmmaker connection you know we had done a lot of core on films i honestly i can't answer that for you i don't know uh and in the case of of okja we had done uh memories of murder and parasite already that's right so so having something not sure having that relationship makes sense of course
Yes. But to go back to answering your question in terms of what the process is, it's been... Something that it's very different now from what it was when I first started. When I first started, I think there wasn't quite as much. of a form to it but now there is where We have meetings with our art department and editorial department to kind of pregame what we're thinking for overall design, whether or not we will be able to use.
frame grabs or photographic images for the cover if we have access to decent scans or artwork for that. If not, then we may have to rely on illustration. If so, what kind of illustration, what style? Who are we going to get to write the liners? All that kind of stuff. And then we have a meeting about what the overall.
size and scope and scale of the release will be because it's going to be different for every single situation in some cases it's like well what how how much of a story is there for this uh as opposed to Another one, you know, is the story for Barry Lyndon going to be bigger than the story for The Killing? Yeah, it probably is because there's a much bigger scale to that film and a lot more moving parts and a lot more. detail in relation to what you're talking about with.
cinematography and art direction and all the different things that they went through to get the final results on screen. So that gets weighed out. So there are a lot of meetings. leading up to the actual work. And then we try to figure out if we can get people involved, whether it's scholars or former filmmakers to do interviews or commentaries. There was a stretch where...
I mean, you've brought up the fact that commentaries kind of started with Criterion LaserDiscs. And I think there was a period where a lot of us... I shouldn't say a lot of us, maybe because it's a case-by-case situation again. But we, in general, had started making more video pieces than commentaries. And I think now we're ping-ponging back. It's doing a lot of commentaries because we're realizing that a lot of people really do.
want to hear them uh so for example like with godzilla versus violante yeah i have a commentary track on there that's quite great um but there's It gets weighed out in relation to what we think. Also, people are going to want to do sometimes we're talking if we're talking about living filmmakers, they don't want. to have a commentary track and they would rather do a focus video interview. In the case of Barry Jenkins, Barry Jenkins was very vocal.
about wanting commentary tracks because he grew up with criterion releases that was part of his cinematic education if you will uh when he was studying studying film and for him he was like it's not a common it's not a criterion release if it doesn't have a commentary track so let's do right though it became part of the like you expected it many times to have
I have it in my contract that I have to do a commentary track for every single one of them. I do because not, not to hear myself talk, but I like. There is also something about hearing. The good times and the bad when it comes to that. And sometimes I feel like whenever I've done interviews, behind the scenes footage, you are at the behest in most cases to the producer and the editor.
calling the best little bites together. Whereas sometimes you miss, yeah, you miss out on, you know, oh, there's that shot right there. Oh my God. If I could just tell you about how much of a pain in the ass that shot to get someone's hand grabbing a knob.
As an aspiring filmmaker, whenever I would hear those moments from filmmakers and they would talk about those it was inspiring because we all think like, it's just the directors on the, you know, the, the, the techno boom and they have the little beret and they have the, you know, the, the boom thing and they're, they have command of the entire situation where in many cases they don't. And when you have a commentary, it feels like you get a more honest.
conversation in a way, you know? So that's why I'm, I'm always glad to, to see that there's a commentary track, but then when you have like the expert. I like hearing those because it's kind of like when we're talking. You feel like you're talking to someone who knows their shit that can... intelligently talk on a level that feels conversational in a way about certain scenes, whether they're scene-specific. Grady Hendrix is a perfect example of like, I just...
Would love to just, I just like hearing him talk about any movie, you know, especially something from the 80s. I completely agree. I know you do. He's a blast. But how do you find... When it comes to the commentary, say like, you know, there's a filmmaker, even on the Godzilla one, obviously you're probably not going to get anybody, you know, involved in the film to do a scene specific commentary. How did you come to find that specific?
commentator for it right let me also use this to just back up a little bit in relation to something you were saying earlier because i think it's a very good point which is um Having people who are involved with the film talking about a film, it tends to work better when there's a certain degree of hindsight. When there's a little bit of distance between the EPK.
Yeah. When everyone is in EPK mode, they're all... And they're regurgitating the same story over and over and over, whereas... years later they have a little bit of distance where they're really able to look at things within the context of where their lives are and how the film was taken in and reflecting reflecting it's a it's a really huge
uh benefit and to what you were talking about about what you like within tracks i think barry jenkins is very much the same way because what he ended up doing for over 12 hours with the underground railroad he recorded 12 hours plus of commentary for this. It was really about helping viewers understand. different production roadblocks that happen maintain a certain kind of creativity uh the difficulties he faced and how he and his collaborators chose to overcome them
not saying it was right or wrong or anything like that, but it's just like, this is what we had to do. And boy, when this ended up happening, we had to scrap this entire thing or what have you. And it becomes really interesting for sure. And for anybody that's aspiring as a filmmaker, I do think that there's a great deal of value in relation to having filmmakers involved. That's the whole point of this show. Like that's the reason why we continue doing it is to be because every.
You've heard similar stories, but when you hear it and then you see the context of the film itself, like when we had Zach on and he was talking about the, you know, the borrowers. to hear his stories after having seen the movie and certain scenes in like hotel rooms. I'm like, I had a whole new reverence for going, he can't flip the world, you know, like, and I would have never known that. If I didn't have that conversation with him and then one that we got to.
Share with everybody else. So you need like, especially if you're a filmmaker to hear that it's not all, you know, cookies and craft service, that there are hard days and or problem solve. you know, which I think is something that gets scrubbed over when you're in EPK mode because everyone's just like, it was a wonderful time. Everything went great.
that's not always the case. And then that's not saying that like everything's a disaster, but it's nice to hear how you can, filmmakers can persevere and figure out problems that, that in most cases you would never have known. If you were just watching the movie out of context, you were just enjoying it on surface level. And then you hear Fincher talking about like. what it was like trying to get the end of the scene when kevin spacey's running through a hallway in seven
And, you know, Brad Pitt cuts his fucking hand open. You'll never watch the movie the same way again because you're going, look, his hand is bandaged up. And that's the reason why I never knew that until I heard the commentary. But to get back to what you were just asking about, Godzilla versus Bielonte, no, no, no, it's okay because this kind of lands back in where you were asking how the production process works. So once we've decided...
on people to be involved with the disc. In the case of Godzilla vs. Biolante, this is a very particular kind of situation where Toho, the Japanese studio that licensed the film. is very controlling over Godzilla. And I'm not saying this in a disparaging way. It's just that this is the case. And understandably so. You're talking about one of the most recognizable characters in cinema history, right? Everybody knows who Godzilla is. It's almost like Mickey Mouse or something.
I fully understand that they want to be protective and know what is being said and what is being imparted on this. So I had to choose people that I knew would. Be able to provide information to folks who are diehard fans, of which there are many with Godzilla. You know, it's a very rabid fan community. But also be...
welcoming enough with information to bring in new people. Because, listen, there's a really good chance that some people will be watching Godzilla vs. Biolante as their very first Godzilla movie. It's like, oh... Wow. Yeah. Well, I want to see more. And then if you're learning something through this and you're only getting, say.
minutiae and apocryphal information. It may be the type of thing that, I don't know, for you and me, it could be thrilling, but for somebody who's just starting, it could be off-putting. So you want somebody that's going to be inviting in that way. You want somebody that's going to be able to work with. Notes from me, notes from the studio, things like that satisfy the needs of both Criterion, which is trying to bring this movie to as many people as possible, whether old fans or new.
And then the studio that really wants their creation to be treated with a certain amount of respect and understanding and within the context of information that they... want within a story that's being told. To hear the rest of this episode, go to patreon.com slash themoviecrypt. For only $1 a month, you'll get every new episode every Monday downloaded right to your podcast app of choice.