Hi, I'm filmmaker and movie crypt host, Joe Lynch. And I'm Becca Howard, a writer, editor, and person. And thank God it's... Tuesday? No, I mean, technically, I know it's Tuesday, but this is for a couple of old fashions. Oh, so you want me to lie and pretend it's Friday? Well, cinema is lies at 24 frames per second. Going for Goddard.
Quotes already. Really going to be lining them up for that one. There's no need to. Thank God it's. As it were. Hi. Well, no matter what day you're listening to this, we're here to talk to you about a couple of old fashions. a new limited series subsidiary of the Movie Crypt Podcast. As you may or may not know, at our first date, Joe and mine, we each brought a surprise movie that neither of us had prior warning of. I brought my man, Godfrey, a 1930s...
screwball classic. And I brought Lucio Fulci's The New York Ripper. And true love was born. And now, a few years later, we're married. And more importantly, we're co-hosting this new series together. Every Friday at midnight, a new episode featuring yours truly will drop via the movie. Patreon account. Each episode has a unique theme for that week's movie marathon. We both bring a surprise title that neither of us know about and we watch them together. Off screen. Well...
Yeah, no one wants to just watch us watch movies for hours on end. I mean, that's what Slumber Party Massacre is. Anyway, we then discuss the movies together with a couple of old fashioned cocktails, having a couple of old fashioned conversations with our old fashioned dog, Rocco. What we liked or didn't like about each other's pics. Whether they work together.
or didn't work together. The movies, right? Not us? Yes. This isn't a litmus test that just never ends. Anyway, we would love to invite you guys all to join us on our double-feature date nights at the movies. And let us know! What do you think of our picks and what you guys would have brought to the marathon? Our first episode's theme is One Night Only. Which may also be how long the whole show lasts. And that one is already up on our podcast and available to listen to or watch. Or both.
at the same time. For free. If you like what you see and hear, going forward, the episodes will drop every Friday at midnight and will be only three bucks an episode to access. Three bucks? Jeez, I can get three Taco Tuesday tacos for that. Well, that's the lowest amount you can set a price at on Patreon. Surely you have to be worth at least three bucks. Nah, I'm a ten cents a dance kinda girl. Not anymore, right? Yep.
Okay. Well, we hope to see you here every Friday for a couple of old-fashioned movies, a couple of old-fashioned conversations, a couple of old-fashioned cocktails, and a couple of old-fashioned people. Now back to Taco Tuesday. No, remember, it's Friday. Oh, yeah. Lying. I mean, cinema is lies at 24 frames. Thank God it's Friday. As it were. So be sure to tune into A Couple of Old Fashions with Becca and Joe. right here on the Movie Crypt Network. And now, on to the show.
Movie Crypt! And welcome to another edition of Movie Crypt. I'm... Holy shit. I'm Joe Lynch and I'm the only person here right now. This is fucking weird. We are recording, well, I am recording this on January 28th, way back on January 28th, 2025. No, the world has not ended. The fires have not consumed us. Trump has not killed us all yet.
But we are here. And as you'll notice, I am the one doing the intro. Adam is not because Adam is currently on, as we're saying, special assignment. There's me doing air quotes for you to not see. He is currently in. And as of now, by the time this airs way forward in mid-March, Adam will be in the thick of shooting his latest feature, details of which we cannot disclose at this time.
in fear of, well, lawsuits. But he hopefully is doing very well right now and having a great time and making his day and kicking ass and taking names. But... The show must go on. And our guest today is someone who reached out to me.
a couple months ago and you know people slip into my dms all the time what can i say i'm a pretty popular public figure and uh but this was this was different in that i had already heard about her film uh that was on the festival circuit and any time that someone's got a film in the festival circuit man that dm gets opened up right the fuck away because look
The thing that I love about film festivals is that it is still keeping the love for the theatrical experience alive, even for films that might not get that chance otherwise. You know, I last year with Suitable Flesh, we were, well, two years. ago my god we were lucky enough to have a very limited theatrical run unfortunately due to the strikes um and the lack of promotion from our talented cast um rlj decided that might not be the best option to you know not
to put it at the theaters and not have a generation of return from that promotion. So going to, you know, limited theatrical was, you know, was thankful. But the festival scene is totally where it's at if you want to see the latest visions, the brightest new stars, and this new film, well... Came out two years ago. But this is one of those films that I think people will discover over the years. And thanks to services like Tubi, which I will admit.
has been killing it lately in terms of their original films. A bunch of festival films from the last couple of years, including Black Mold, Low Lives, Dave Parker's You Shouldn't Have Let Me In.
uh spider ones bury the bride all these films have generated themselves you know really good amounts of buzz and reviews and had that theatrical experience which we don't get so much anymore for films like this but when they land on services like tubi especially when they're free they become the cult classics that we'll be talking about for years and perfectly good moment is no exception and
we just so happen to have the writer and star of perfectly good moment please welcome to the movie crypt amanda jane stern this is where i this is where i add like you know a bunch of creepy little kids like yelling and screaming in the background. So trust me, there's when you listen back to this, you'd be like, holy cow, they had a studio audience. This is amazing. But thank you so much.
for jumping in and contacting me, Amanda, because I had heard from someone else. I can't remember who it was, but someone had seen Perfectly Good Moment at a festival and said, oh, you're going to fucking love this because like. In the last like two or three years Ever since doing Suitable Flesh
I've become kind of like a guru in a way of erotic thrillers that have genre bending bents to it. Like people just immediately think like, oh my God, there's, there's fucking in that movie. Oh, they're going to. Joe's going to love it. I'm like, well, that's not totally fair. I also like compelling characters in an engaging storyline. Just as long as the, you know, the eroticism plays into, you know, the point of the movie.
then it all makes sense. But then when we started talking, I was like, well, now I have to see it. And holy crap, it's on Tubi. And watching this film, which is, you know, this wonderful two-hander. Now I should mention you were the writer and star of it, but Lauren Greenhall was the director and reminded like. Forgive me. Is it, is it Steven Carlisle as your, as David's name? And it's a two-hander that.
takes place mostly in one location. And again, you know, as someone who made an entire action movie in one room, again, it's like these, you already checked off all the boxes for things that I love in movies.
chamber piece one location and it's got you know sex and genre bending like i'm in i'm totally in those are genres i love as well that's that's why i you know even started in the first place i love stuff like that and Watching this movie down, and this is unfair because I think this is something that a lot of new streaming services, they run the stigma of, especially when they become original films.
Because a lot of these films, and I'm sure your film included, was an independent film that didn't have the streaming service involved. We'll get to that. But a lot of the films that I just mentioned, like Black Mold and Bury the Bride, they were films that were not made for the service.
They were acquired by the service. And yet sometimes people are a little hesitant on engaging in these films because they feel like it's like a lifetime movie or a Hallmark film when they're very much not. I was. To be totally honest, I was really blown away by the level of craft, the fact that you shot this in anamorphic widescreen, the command of the storytelling that Lauren had for...
Not just the streaming services, but it felt very much like a big movie, even though it's in one location. I had that situation happen to me when I did my first movie. which was wrong turn to dead end. It was always designed to be a direct to video film. And I kind of went in saying. But what if we fool the audience into thinking it wasn't or, you know, like, and a lot of times it's, it doesn't cost much more. No, it doesn't. If you just go, you know what, why don't we use.
anamorphic lenses or why don't we shoot it a little wider and let's not use tv type coverage and like The biggest compliment I got from Wrong Turn 2 was, well, two. One was that when they saw it, Fox was like, we could put this in theaters. And then it was Wes Craven, unfortunately, put the kibosh on that because he's like, wait a second, Fox can't have two.
cannibalistic humanoid, um, uh, hillbilly movies sequels out in the same year. Cause he had a Hills have eyes part two coming out. So that, that killed that thing. But when people would see it and when we, when we did festivals. We had audience members going, this is going theatrical, right?
even bigger than the other than the original film and that's like to me that was the best compliment i could have gotten for a film that was for all intents and purposes and from the mouth of tom rothman himself that's at fox when i had a meeting with him. He's like, look, we can spray diarrhea in a DVD box and put it on the shelf with the title wrong turn to, and it will sell. So do what you got to do. Just, you know, make your days.
It was the best compliment I could have gotten in the world for that. So watching your film and watching what you and Lauren and Stephen and all of your collaborators did when putting this together, it was so... like heartening that there are films that can go on a service like that and make people go fuck i wish i saw that in the theater you know yeah thank you no when i when i wrote this um
Because there are three, as you mentioned, it's a genre bender, it's an erotic thriller, and it's playing with perspective a lot. So there are three distinct color schemes throughout the movie. And I wrote those into the script. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I mean, those are the sort of things that you want to convey to your director, whether you had a director in mind or not. And of course, we'll get to how Lauren got involved as well. But that's great to think that like.
You had the wherewithal to think that far ahead because some writers, like I'm dealing with this with one script right now where the executives are going like, don't write any of that in. Because there's a good chance that you're not going to direct this, that this is more of a kind of work for hire thing. And the last thing a director wants to read is wide shot.
of the beautiful blue vista of the old West and people are like, no, no, no, no, just put the old West. I'm like, oh man. Whereas I feel like, yes.
I knew I was never directing this. And yeah, things might or will possibly change. But here's what I'm seeing now. And here is why I'm writing it this way. Here is what this color... means to the story and the perspective and if a director comes in and says well actually how about we do this that's a conversation we can have but you the reader I want you to get a feel of this and to actually be
immersed in it and to see it and to feel it and to basically to breathe it, not just to be reading it and be like, okay, well, there's dialogue, there's a stage direction. Okay. So you wrote this with Julian Seltzer, right? The original story, right? Yes. This is one of those chicken and the egg situations. Now we will spoiler alert or spoiler ish alert. I want anybody within the sound of my voice, go to Tubi, stop what you're doing right now. If you haven't seen the film.
watch it now it's fucking for free you know and not only that but it's it's barely 80 minutes which to me is absolute gold these days movies are way too fucking long And, you know, a nice 75 to 80 minute film that you can kind of breeze in and out of and feel like you got everything nutritional out of it is a godsend these days. So that's also how you have no budget and make a movie.
really good don't make it too long yeah you don't need to stretch it out you know what what i think is one of the secret weapons of perfectly good moment too is that it is a very tight story it rolls along at a fascinatingly like like expedient clip in a really good way i think that as a compliment and it uses the
the environment which is all set in in one apartment complex for the most or one one apartment room in one in most fashions um in a in really ingenious ways where it makes you rethink spaces as you're watching it down But the chicken and egg question I have for you is, and this is why I kind of threw the spoiler alert up there, is that there is a sci-fi slash horror kind of element to it that gets revealed at the end.
Sometimes as a fellow writer yourself, sometimes it takes, and this is where I want to kind of get into your craft and your process, because sometimes it takes, I want to do a story about two people in a relationship. in in many ways a toxic relationship and how do they deal with each other and their own identities through
being in this one space together throughout the years. Like we're watching them kind of evolve over the course of what is it? Eight years that we see them. Yeah. So we're watching them fall in love, fall out of love. get revenge in certain ways, come to terms with certain emotions.
And you know what, for all, for all intents and purposes, the movie I think would stand on its own accord because you and Steven are so good. And the chemistry is they are both good and for bad. And then you have this twist that. I felt was completely organic. It totally made sense. I actually went back to watch it again to see all the little hints that you had in there.
But, but those are the sort of things where it's like, you could either start with, I want to do a relationship. And then throughout the course of that, you go, what if I introduce VR or you go. You know, I've been fucking around with this VR headset. And what if I did this relationship thriller and an erotic thriller? What came first? The relationship. The relationship very much so came first. And actually.
it wasn't necessarily that i wanted to make something about a toxic relationship um i just i was at home one day i Was sitting on my couch, staring at my bookshelf. As we do. And thinking about how much I missed being on set. And this was still during. the pandemic kind of tail end of lockdown stuff. So I was wondering, okay, well, if I want to get back on set, I want to make a movie. It's got to be something small scale so that we could be safe about it.
And also, I love a two-hander. I love a one-location movie. Yeah. And some of the inklings of that scene were there at the beginning with the, I loved that trip. Where was that again? That's what came to me. And so I kind of had the first, I had that scene and then the scene after that. And I wrote those out and they're actually pretty much exactly how I wrote them before anything else.
And so as I'm writing that, I realized, oh, I think I'm writing a toxic relationship. I'm writing that guy. Were you in a relationship at the time? I'm still in the same relationship that I was actually Julian who co-wrote the story with me and produced the movie is my fiance. Oh, nice. Wow. And I'm sure he must have had a grand old time reading pages going, what the fuck? And it's hard. It's so difficult sometimes to want to.
put your heart and soul into something that feels so personal. Like if you look, if you're going to write about fucking aliens and serial killers, you know, you know, have at it when you have that higher concept, when you're looking insular. Like when you're looking through almost like, you know, using those script pages as a mirror to reflect your own feelings, your feelings towards other people. Sometimes.
Things get so personal that, you know, your, your significant other, your, you know, your friends, lovers, you know, husbands, wives, they start reading into it and reading between the lines going, wait, is that me? Or is that the bad side of me? Like my my wife and I wrote a script recently for Neil Marshall, and it was this really it was another kind of like toxic relationship.
erotic thriller thing called compression i would not be surprised if our name was off of it at this point which is fine it's probably for the best um but in when we Cause this was after we had a really successful time doing the rewrites for suitable flash. And, you know, we both kind of like kind of opened up all of these. not wounds, but we were really kind of exposing ourselves, not literally, well, maybe a little literally, but enough where we revealed a lot to ourselves.
And in good ways, and a lot of really good ways. And then with this other script, with Compulsion, because I don't know how you write, but I like to write in the morning. She likes to write at night. So we like sometimes we like kind of have that like high fiving at five in the morning where it's like, all right, see you tomorrow. You know, see you tomorrow, pal. And.
Then when we're reading back each other's work, we're going, holy shit, wow, there's stuff in there that I didn't even know could, you know, furrow forth from your brain. But then you start to reflect on it. When you were doing this, like when you were.
julian were putting this together did it feel like you were kind of getting a little too emotional or too raw was there anything that you went like maybe we shouldn't put that in there uh no actually so i'll tell you really what his writing of involvement and where that came in is so i i had these two characters and i was always writing for myself to act in this and i had
Steven, who is my co-star, I had met him once before, only once. I saw him on Broadway. We had drinks one night. That was it. But I decided I'm going to write... this male lead with him in mind, because that's a completely normal thing to do. Super normal. I'm not obsessed at all. Not one thing to do. Totally, totally not strange in the least. And so I brought these first couple of scenes to Julian and I said,
Here are my ideas of what I'm seeing. And basically what I described wanting to write to him was, what if Last Tango in Paris turned into hard candy?
that was my pitch that's a good fucking pitch just take the butter out and keep the snipping snip the snippety snip exactly and then the gold far but you can't afford gold far because that's way too expensive but when that's now but the thing is what wait that was that was the pitch and so and what did julian say to that so he read the first couple of scenes and he said
Yeah, this is great. Let's do this. And he was the one who helped me craft where the story was going. And we went back and outlined the whole thing. And the twist happened because he has produced VR projects before.
Oh my God. So that's purely out of the fact. So, so if you were dating like a biological engineer, or an ice cream man there's a good chance that either one of those elements could have in you know uh like attached themselves to the ending of this film exactly because he worked at a company Like 10 years ago, basically our first couple of years out of college, he worked at a company that's no longer around called Punched or Punched in the Head Productions. And they- Good name.
did they were great i loved them um they did a few of those vr projects but they were you know the things for celebrities going to sundance with those vr immersive experiences yeah to do like bystander effect and bystander intervention training. Oh, weird. Mm hmm. So he knew kind of how it worked. And then my brother, who I mentioned before we started recording, is a scientist. He has a coding background and he is a friend who does game and VR development.
So they did the coding for me. So when it glitches, that's a real code that they made up. Oh, no way. Yep. Now, those are the kind of Easter eggs you can only get right here on The Movie Crypt. When people watch that shit, they'll be like, you know, that's actual code. That's fucking awesome. Yeah, so that all happened just because...
I had people with the experience in that. And that's why that was the twist and not something. And I love horror and sci-fi. So it was always going to be something in that vein. And that's just what it was because. of the experience Julian already had. That's so funny though. Like considering that like Julian was able to, and what was your brother's name? Oh, his name is Matt. So between Matt's coding.
and julian's vr you have these two like very close male figures in your life that kind of evolved that ending in a perfect way and now with steven because like There's one thing where it's like, all right, I'm writing this for this Broadway actor. What do you think, Julian? I'm sure. And you know what? God bless him for not being like, are you trying to tell me something? He loves Steven.
Actually, on set, they'd call each other husbands. Oh, my God. Did you ever have to say, like, did you two get a fucking room? We all made fun of them. It was a very close set. Just everyone became very good friends on that set. And we still hang out with them. That brings up a really good point in terms of collaboration because, you know, having... Cause I, I, again, I did this with suitable flesh. I had never had a partner that I was able to collaborate with where like in the past.
Not that I was dating anybody from any other sets and my ex was not anywhere really near. being wanting wanting to be part of the production process other than maybe like helping me shoot a music video or two she was not into it at all and you know one of the things that can be complicated about shooting with loved ones and partners, family, whatever, is that sometimes production can be can be a give no fucks kind of situation where emotions get in the way or, you know.
nepotism gets involved. You know what I mean? Like when emotions get involved in the machine.
it can get a little bit complicated and get a little bit dicey sometimes people really enjoy that you know sometimes like people like to work with their partners other people do not at all i know a few filmmakers who you know have had that experience before it was like it was hell having to go home every night and like try to turn off from like the production and try to just be like couple again was brutal and i got to admit
I was a little scared because we were kind of in the beginnings of our relationship. And these sort of things could sometimes make or break your own relationship. And shockingly between. Cause she was editing while I was shooting. So like I would, you know, I would be out on set during the day and she would be looking at dailies and then I would come home, cry myself to sleep. And, but she would be up kind of cutting footage. And then in the morning she'd be like, either, either.
Don't worry. Or you better, maybe you should get that shot of the fan. You're going to fucking need it. But then when we came back and we edited the movie together, again, being in that edit room together and knowing that like. Because I'm an editor by nature. And this was the first time that I got to edit or co-edit my own film. Usually it was with someone else that was considered the official editor. Here, it was just her and I in a room.
And we got into it a couple of times, not in a way where to like, oh, my God, but like there was some arguments in a good way. It was healthy. But at the end of the day, we had to turn it off somehow. And I've talked about this on the show before where you have to almost find that palate cleanser to.
Allow yourself to go, okay, you're not shooting anymore or you're not cutting anymore. Don't talk about it anymore. Just try to shut it off and just try to be a couple again. And we used episodes of cheers where we would go home. And the second you heard everybody knows your name and you hear that, you know, you hear this, the opening strains of that, that show, it was like Pavlovian where we would go, ah, okay, let's make a salad. Let's let's make dinner and watch.
You know, watch Ted dance and hit on everybody again. And it was so much fun to be able to use that as like a diffusion when because you said that Julian produced the movie as well. Yes. And he was, you know, probably on set. Did you guys have a way to diffuse that? Or were you able to shut off production while you guys were shooting? So we're that weird couple. We love working together.
Actually, we've been together since college. We've been collaborating on things for a very long time now. We do true crime together now, actually. Wow. Holy shit. Yeah. And we both come from theater backgrounds. We both went to the same performing arts sleepaway camp. That's not where we got together. We didn't really know each other there.
But that's our background. So we're used to that weird collaborative theater, everyone knows everything environment. So by the time we did this movie, we'd done so much theater together. We'd already been together for years. We'd already...
gone through lockdown together where we spent all of our days in lockdown doing art recreations where we'd rearrange our furniture on a daily basis to reenact paintings that we saw on museum websites um the harder the better where we made short films with oranges Like, yes, the fruit, the orange fruit. I would love to have seen the days that you were doing Dolly. That would have been fun. Jeez. Yeah, we're that weird couple. And then.
When we're on set, we don't act couple-y on set. And because I was acting and he was producing, we didn't actually talk to each other that much while we were actively on set. I was, you know, I'd be straight from shooting scenes and talking to Lauren and Steven to costume and hair and makeup. Or getting mic checked.
julian would be running around being you know set grandma and making sure that everyone was he is he's set grandma making sure that everyone's taken care of and that we were also filming in new york city in the summertime oh my god it is balls hot you know it was a heat wave so he'd be running around making sure okay
The air conditioner in this apartment is actually kind of shitty right now. So I'm getting extra fans and extra air purifiers. Here's a whole medicine cabinet of every single pain pill you can think of. The legal ones, that is. Yeah, of course. Yeah, the ones you can get the pharmacy. And so we until we go home at the end of the day, we didn't really talk to each other at all. But that's so healthy, though. But now at the same time. It's one thing if you're, I don't know, like a...
Kate Beckinsale and Len Wiseman making an underworld movie and, you know, shooting up werewolves and vampires and everything while your husband's directing. It's another thing if you're involved in a production where you're one of the stars of the film and you are actively. making love and being seductive and being being seduced and being abused. And your husband is off to the side, you know, making sure that everyone's got air purifiers and stuff. What was that like?
Okay, so I will tell you, the one thing that actually bothered him where he did have to step away is towards the end when Steven pushes me. Even though he knew that Steven was... not pushing me and that i was the one propelling the entire thing that was where he had to walk away um but the first day on set steven says to julian he goes what's it
You know, how does it feel? What's it like being on set every day and watching me make out with your fiance? And Julian goes, Stephen, it's day one. Ask me that at the wrap party. Yeah, dude, a little too soon. The wrap party happens. Steven and I get there and the wrap party was literally the same night that we wrapped shooting. We had a half day that day. So after we wrapped. Stephen and I went out and we went to the cafe next door and got drinks and some food while the crew, you know.
packed up everything and struck the apartment. And then we went and met them at the bar for the wrap party. So Stephen and I are already a little tipsy by the time we get to the official wrap party. And Julian says to him, he says, Stephen, on the first day on set, you asked me something. And I said, ask me at the wrap party. You can ask again now. Stephen thinks for a moment. Very thoughtful and very cautious, if anything.
He thinks for a moment, he asks the question and Julian goes, well, I hear you're a great kisser. Well played answer. Very well played answer, Steven. Oh my God. Oh, Jesus. We had an intimacy coordinator on the set too. And that was someone who was there who was like to Julian, hey, if you need to talk to me, you are also, I am also here for you in addition to being here for the actors. Wow.
Now that, that is something I wanted to, it's funny. You've, you've pretty much answered all of my questions already in your answers, which is exactly how I do it too, where I'm like, I'll, I'll just. I'll be on someone else's show and I'll be going off for 15 minutes. I'm like, well, you pretty much got everything checked. So we're, we're good. The show's over. But the intimacy coordinator is, it's a position that has obviously for.
All the right reasons is becoming a necessity for a lot of films, certain films, certain TV shows, especially in the way that things have been exploited and abused over the years. I've been on sets with them and I've been on sets without them. We actually, and I don't think I've ever talked about this before, but when we did Suitable Flesh, it was presented to us because I brought it up.
Because, you know, like I've been working with actors in this case, like Heather Graham and Barbara Crampton, Stephen, you know, and Jonathan Sheck and Judah had never done any love scenes before. But the other guys. pretty much veterans of the game. Yep. And they had, you know, grown up and started their careers at a time where, you know, it was both that, that, that position was not there, but at the same time, that especially with.
with Jonathan, you know, that those scenarios had been abused and exploited by filmmakers. So I wanted to be very aware and very respectful to them. So I brought it up when we were all together and said, look, I was told by the producers that it will be an extra cost to have them. Now that said, and this is at a point where I had.
become friends with them we had become very you know professionally friendly we were all collaborating at that very small small cast oh exactly you know so you know and everyone was kind of it was almost homogenous in a way where everyone was hooking up with everybody else on, on screen, on screen. Yes. I've seen that. But.
You know, I wanted to make sure that everyone knew that that was an option, even though it was presented to me that that was going to be an extra cost. And I told the producers, I'm like, well, look, I, this is really. I would be happy with, cause I've been on sets where some, sometimes the.
Actors don't like the intimacy coordinator to be there because they feel like it's another set of prying eyes and it's taking them out of the moment. I respect that. I understand that. But I also want to make sure that everybody feels safe. And you're right. Sometimes crew members like to have. those people you know like those crew members there those intimacy coordinators there because they want to make sure that in the general sense this is being done
responsibly and respectfully. So I pose it to everybody and I did it separately because I didn't want to put it like to out there to everybody. And then, you know, someone's like, And looking off like, oh, shit, do I say yes or no? So I asked them all separately. And I was shocked when every single one of them. said no i you know what i i'm i'm good like i would rather it be you because i remember when david lynch rest his rest his soul um
When he did Wild at Heart, it was the first time that I ever read about a director doing something specific for a love scene. And it was the first time I remember reading where it was just him. Nicolas Cage Laura Dern and he was shooting so
You know, there was three people in that room and it was probably the three most intimate people in that creative process that you can get. There's no grip off in the corner eating a fucking sandwich. There's no one else prying around and like leering in and stuff like that. It was just the three of them. And truth be told, having just watched that movie again, I think that is
It's amazing. Some of the sexiest celluloid ever committed to film because it feels intimate. Yes, it's hardcore times. Yes, it's incredibly erotic, but it also feels like there's no one else in the world but those two. and David Lynch. That's it. Well, that's what I love about him is everything I've read about how he went out of his way to make his actors comfortable on set. And that's so important. I'm someone who, as an actor, I want to go to set.
I want to feel comfortable. You could be getting the most terrible emotions out of me for my character. She can be going through it. Me, Amanda, the actor playing that? I should not be going through it. I don't want to be traumatized by someone I'm working with. That's not going to get a great performance out of me. That's when I shut down and feel unsafe. And I love all of David Lynch's.
a set should not be a terrible place you should want to show up you should be happy i will get the best emotions out of my actors if they feel safe and comfortable all right i'm glad we're talking about this because it's something that i've been thinking a lot about like I don't think anybody, unless you're a fucking sadist, I don't think anybody grew up with that seed of yearning to create, whether you're on the set, whether you're.
on a stage whether you're in a booth whether you're in front of a canvas i don't think anyone truly, and I might be wrong here. There's probably some contrarian viewpoints here, but I don't think anybody really wants to say, I want to put myself in the most uncomfortable position absolutely possible to elicit this art.
There are people who are very method in their process. And I've worked with method actors. I've tried it. And I, frankly, I'm not the biggest fan of it from an acting standpoint. From a directing standpoint, look. You know, whatever your process is, I want to support you. So if you want to be called that, you know, that character and you want to not wear shoes for the entirety of the shit, so be it.
But I feel like the thing that I love about directing most is I love being on that set with the actors, with the crew, and we're all... creating and, but we're all having fun. There's never like a, I don't want it to be tense. I never understood hearing about like And I and I love him to death as a filmmaker, but I could never subscribe to like William Friedkin, you know, creating tension on set or these other filmmakers who love to.
you know kind of rabble rouse and and stir up the the drama or i love the one where it's like you would hear like the director would go to one person say you know that actor's trying to upstage you and then the other and then going to the same like the other person saying the same thing just to create
drama and tension and then they go like later on like oh yeah like that that was all me i i was you know i was the puppet master you know what like hire hire people who and collaborate with people who can do that without making
emotion that you carry home with you. And that bothers the shit out of me. Have you ever been in a situation where that that has happened in you know because you know you've you've segued pretty seamlessly from you know purely acting to writing and acting you know together and now that's kind of your next phase in your career but you started out you know kind of
acting as a kid and you've been, you know, you've been working your way up. Have you been in situations like that where you're like, this is not a fun environment, you know, how did you deal with that? So you're right. I started acting as a kid. So I started acting before there were a lot of the safeguards that we have now. And obviously there were child actor safeguards when I started in the sense of.
hours on set but i would be on sets where they ignored that um and i remember the first time i filmed sexy and i was 16. oh man did not know the guy in the scene with me because he was only on set for that one day he was 24 there there was obviously no intimacy coordinator um and they they were just like yeah okay you you guys do the scene that's it and yeah yeah and it was not a closed set so everybody was in the room
And it's so awkward. And I know people with significantly worse stories than that. But it's still, you know, looking back, I, one of the things I do when I'm in an uncomfortable position is I start. telling bad jokes to try to break the tension. And, you know, the worst puns. And of course I was 16, so they would have been even worse then than they are now. And so that's what I'm doing.
the whole time because it's so fucking awkward and the only one who's really calling attention to this is the uh hair and makeup artist who's sitting there going she's 16 what the fuck are we doing here And that's, wow. Yeah, and that was also a set that we went well past the hours that a minor should have been on set. But yeah.
That's and the thing is, though, you know, you and thank you for sharing that. I do. I do appreciate that because we do have a lot of filmmakers who listen to the show. And I feel like sometimes these horror stories are. Good to hear. And I shouldn't even like, I mean, yes, that is a horrible situation, but you do learn from it.
and paying it forward to be a filmmaker yourself and being that writer on set and be, you know, being someone who is much more in terms of the entirety of the production. between you and Julian and even Lauren too. And I want to get to her next, but you do have to have a responsibility for every single person on that set. And when you're doing something in the... ass end of august and you're shooting in the fucking the swamp ass of new york city which i have done before do you know trauma right
Yes. I started out in trauma and we shot a movie called in August in New York city. Oh no. It was, it was, it was 20, 24 days of, Oh no. Like it was just every day was. one big oh no now that said that was one of the most respectful and responsible sets i had ever been on Yeah, there's nothing we can do about the weather in New York. The oh no is because the weather has got awful. Exactly. It was uncomfortable, but it was still fun and no one ever, at least on my watch.
and i started out as a grip and then by the end of it i was one of the main characters i was writing on the set I was the second unit director. Like you feel like you really do feel when you have a smaller crew like that, you really do feel like you are part of the family. You're an integral collaborator on a film like that. And with, you know.
With your film, I'm sure it was a small enough crew where everyone felt like they were being part of that process. And you have to do everything in your part, whether you're on camera or off camera. To generate a community and a chemistry that makes everyone enjoy wanting to go to work, even though it's going to be hard and the hours are going to be long.
Food will probably not be the best thing in the world, even though it's the one thing that you always have to think of. We actually have really good catering. That's the best advice I give everybody. You feed your fucking crew. That's Julian's thing. Well, Julian is a fucking good producer. He schedules everything around when people are eating. It's smart, though. It is. I've been on so many films.
Like, like when I was shooting in New York or even out here where they did just go like, oh shit. Well, we're going to go get El Pollo Loco or Taco Bell. And like that dude, like, come on, that's not, you have to, if you're not going to, if you're going to pay. your crew in peanuts, then you better make sure that those peanuts are the most delicious fucking peanuts that you could possibly offer. Because at the end of the day, good producing, you find that caterer or you find that like.
restaurant or bodega or anybody or even like you know get your fucking parents to make it like you you make good food and people walk away fulfilled and they have a full tummy they are going to get that extra shot for you at the end of the day no matter what um what julian did we filmed in soho that's where that apartment is so there's a lot of food around there he uh befriended the managers at five or six different
lunch spots so you know Mediterranean place uh I think there were like two Mediterranean places this place Grey Dog that has a bunch of locations over the city that's one of my favorite places um a few other places and so he had a rotating menu basically of this day is this place and then it switches each day to one of the other places and so every day on set he'd give us a menu and it was like what do you want so smart the manager knows that i'm ordering you know
a dozen meals so choose anything on the menu and sometimes there's a thing of some of us had a thing we're like oh well this go-to restaurant this is one of my go-to's so one of the things on the set menu isn't actually like my favorite order can i order off menu yeah if you know exactly what you're getting go for it it's fine um so that's what he did so every day it would be like oh it's mediterranean you know uh
like green bowls or it's whatever you want from grey dog or it's salad day. But even when you have that choice because you know in most cases like back before the pandemic, when it was just the, you know, the, the lunch line, you know, you'd have a couple little options here and there, but then by week two or week three, people are like, Oh, it's the chicken or the steak or the fish, you know, like, or one of those variants that you've now cycled through.
through over and over again, which again, you know, if, if it's hot and it, and there's like, you can possibly go back for seconds, you know, it's nothing wrong with that at all. Then the pandemic hit and it all became the single serving pre-made meals, which makes sense. Again, being responsible. The problem is, is that there was this sensibility that producers trying to save a buck felt like they were able to continue that and.
doing single serving meals instead of having the line. And so again, another thing I don't think I talked about a lot on the show, shockingly considering the 600 plus episodes we've done, but on suitable flesh, we had. And I don't know if, I'm guessing you guys were non-union when you shot this? No, we're union. Good for you. Well, guess what? I am a SAG member. Well, the thing is, we were, because I told them I couldn't do it.
non non DGA it's not worth it for me I need the health insurance and you know all of our actors if we want the kind of actors and the caliber of actors that we know will generate a return on investment we need to have good SAG actors and we did But then the producers, not all of them, but some of them decided, let's do non-union because we're shooting in Mississippi. And I got real scared about that. And I kept saying to them, don't, I think this is a bad idea.
And like, no, no, no, it'll be totally fine. We did on the last film and, you know, like we didn't we didn't get flipped or anything. And the first day that we were on set and they pulled out the shittiest. breakfast burritos for lunch. It was like two poorly chosen little self meal choices for the crew on day one.
I went, we are going to get fucked. Our crew is going to fucking hate us. But they were like, no, no, no. Guess what? We have games. We're going to give away like prizes and shit in the middle of lunch. And I'm like, that's like the pizza party at the corporate office.
Exactly. And not only that, but it's the pizza party where they get fucking Little Caesars or they get Papa John's. And you get the half slice. They don't even give you a full slice. And you know at that moment that your crew is only going to tolerate this so long. And sure enough, 13 days in.
And I don't mind saying this now because I found out stuff about my producers later on that was confided to me by one of the other producers who has since left that they did some shady shit. And I won't get into it here, but I don't care anymore. It's like, you know what? Fucking be good producers. Like we, you and I, and so many people who are listening to this, we're not doing this for the money. The money would be nice. We'd love it. It'd be great. Money is good. Money pays the bills.
But I like whenever I stand on set, I'm not sitting there counting dollar bills going like, oh, this is money in the bank. I'm going. No, that's me taking an acting job on a script that I don't love. That's money. And there's nothing better than watching all of these Jenga pieces or all these Lego pieces that are all these wonderful actors and artisans and crew members and everybody across the board.
when the director calls action and all the components are working in tandem there is nothing better than that maybe good sex but there is other than that there is well maybe a really good burrito but other than that other than good sex and a great burrito. There is nothing better than watching all of that happen. So like for you, when.
And correct me if I'm wrong, is Perfectly Good Moment the first script that you've seen produced that you were also in? Yes. So, okay. Let's go back to... day four day five because usually by day four day five in the week one the kinks have been for the most part worked out how many days do you guys have to shoot 10 days we date nine and a half okay yeah so let's you know what wait a second
Really? Nine and a half days instead of nine and a half weeks? Oh my God. I didn't even think about that. Nine and a half days. So let's say nine and a half days. So on day three, you are now a third of the way through the shoot for the most part. and at that point i mean maybe it's safe to say and you can correct me if i'm wrong but maybe it's safe to say that you are hopefully
between yourself and Lauren and Julian, of course, is one of the producers, Stephen being on set, your DP, your first AD, everybody's now kind of getting into the groove. Did you ever get a moment? where you got to step back and say, I wrote this and I, I like these words that came up that both Steven and I are saying and the blocking that's been laid out and the, you know, the.
whether it was art directed and the props that are being put down and all of these little things that all came together. And now it's being filtered through a camera and onto this little video monitor that Lauren's probably looking at.
Did you ever get a moment to step back and just go, wow, and give yourself that moment? Not really until the end. Because I. I was just terrified and convinced every day that something was going to go wrong and it was all going to fall apart and that we weren't going to finish the movie or someone was going to drop out at the last minute.
Which is always what, wait, how the hell can anyone drop out if it's just you and Steven? Exactly my point. Oh no. Steven's not allowed to leave. I was so terrified that, and we rehearsed this a lot before we got to set. so that we could shoot so quickly so uh lauren and our dp matt bronsdorf they met every single day for like six weeks and shot listed everything and then
Those nights, Lauren and Steven would come over to my apartment and we'd rehearse and block everything out. So when we got to set, yeah, it was a different... environment and a slightly different layout than where we'd been rehearsing but we knew what we were doing and and that becomes part of the fun like to me is
Anytime that I've done rehearsals, which unfortunately has become a lost part of the craft. When I was on Wrong Turn 2, and this is on the tail end of the... like the better end of of studio genre efforts being given like the proper resources like yeah
I never would have thought like looking back, I go, my God, wrong turn to had some, like maybe one of the higher budgets of all the films that I've done at 4.5 million. Like that's crazy to think. And we were given five days of rehearsals, five days. for wrong turn two like what the fuck and i had to fight to get any rehearsal time on suitable flesh and now to be fair a lot of that came down to schedules like yeah but
It was also the producers not wanting to spend per diem and hotels and, you know, or Airbnbs for the actors to come out five days before to be able to because it's one thing. And then, you know, the first thing they say is like, oh, you can just do it on Zoom. I'm sorry. No, you can't. Not the same fucking dynamic. You cannot. You cannot feel intimacy. You cannot feel rife. You cannot feel emotion on Zoom when you're going.
No, you first. No, no, you go ahead. That was your line. Or, oh, shit. Like, no, I'm sorry. That's not going to fucking fly. A table read? Totally get it. Yep. you can like, there's nothing, there's nothing that curls my fucking toes more than sitting there going, all right, let's go again on zoom. Like just not going to happen. The blocking was so important. And that was something I noticed in suitable flesh was how.
blocked out it was in a good way that, you know, because sometimes you watch something and you just go, ah, they didn't. They didn't really think through the blocking before they parked their camera. And now everything's very static. And that's one of my biggest complaints in indie movies is, hey, blocking is not what costs you money. Think about your shots.
Think about where your actors are moving before you shoot it. You know, don't just park and bark unless that actually makes sense. Don't be so static. And everything moved so well in Suitable Flash. The way that the actors moved with each other. you know, showed that you worked together and you weren't just like, well, here's the camera, now go for it. Man, that makes me so...
Like Amanda, you made my fucking day because you're probably aside from again, from again, my wife, you know, like who was watching the dailies coming in and stuff like that. No one's ever really talked about that. And like I came from. A theatrical background, like in terms of, you know, character dynamic in a space. And unfortunately, I think that this is where as much as television has.
really grown in terms of scope and cinematics, they're still being stymied by production time. And I know you've done a bunch of, you know. tv in new york and i'm sure like i have so many friends in new york where it's like you haven't lived life until you've done an episode of law and order where you're playing a sexual deviant and you know and then and i talk about like well what was like shooting and they're like
They set up the camera and you're in and out and that's it. There's no rehearsals. The director goes, you stand there, you stand there. We have two cameras here, two cameras there. They spray the coverage and they get the fuck out because they're not, or they're doing a walk and talk on a Steadicam. And that's it. And I and unfortunately. That. That mode of filmmaking, as opposed to like.
watching a good Scorsese movie or watching even Kubrick and seeing how Kubrick is putting people in spaces, even though he's setting up a shot that looks like everybody's in one big, like wide angle box, but the way that people are. separated and coming together and all of those steps. Which normally would, if their camera wasn't there, would be on a stage where blocking is tantamount to the emotion. That art is getting lost because television is...
Like, unfortunately, one of the primary sources of people's inspiration for watching media. And when they just see. two tight 50 millimeter lens closeups of two people talking. You don't see where they are, what their proximity is. And that's one of the things that like, I really. truly admired about what Lauren and what was the DP's name again? Matt. His name's Matt Bronsdorf.
What they were able to capture, like the scenes when Steven would come out into the kitchen and you would and already you start getting little hints on something is amiss here. Something is there's something going on between the lines. But the way that he.
both of you are walking around that space i was and then not only that but deliberately choosing to use the anamorphic frame because once you do that you are now opening up your space in ways that you better fucking use that frame like it can't just be like oh because wes anderson used it in rushmore like no you got to have a good
thematic story and performance reason to use that but unfortunately tv has boxed us in so what you guys were able to do with perfectly good moment and this is the clincher and for anybody who's listening who hasn't already stopped and pause this interview and watch the movie and come back to listen to our beautifully ribald conversation about craft service um like when you watch it and you and this is where
a movie that is 75 to 80 minutes long is perfect because in the amount of time that you can go see a masterpiece like the brutalist, you could watch perfectly good moment five or six times. And be able to get seven different things out of it each time you watch it without an intermission. You can make your own intermission. But the second time I watched it, you start to see the deliberate use of blocking.
to start hinting at what's really going on underneath the surface or between the lines or between the code wink wink nudge nudge and that that was something that i truly admired and and like i was i was curious then and that's where i want to segue into um into lauren because She like the way that she worked with both of you on an acting front, but also working with Matt, you know, the DP and everything. It was really refreshing take on the relationships.
There's the moment with, Oh God, is it the song? Like what's the song that you guys talk about? The luckiest. Yes. And when Ben Folds 5 comes into the, no, it's Ben Folds solo, right? It's just Ben Folds. Oh, yeah. Licensing that song. Okay. Because I want to, you know what? Sorry, Lauren, we're going to get to you in a second. So I know she's listening right now. Great job, by the way. I, when that, I, I went, I've gone through, I, I'm the idiot who, you know, watched enough.
Tarantino movies to be like, I have to have my own needle drops where if someone listens to it, they will never listen to that song again without listening to like. when you know in wrong turn two i had to fight so hard to get electric avenue the eddie the eddie grant song from the end to the movie to the point where i kind of not i didn't leave the the post
I didn't leave the edit room, but I was like, I'm not going to come in until you guys fucking do it because I stripped an entire day because they told me that it was going to be too expensive. And I'm like, trust me, I will not only.
do this in less days i will get fucking patten oswald to do a cameo in this get me that song and you promised me and the producer's like of course we will and then in the edit he's like yeah we can't get that i'm like no fuck that like i i bent over backwards for you so i i kind of left I wasn't being an asshole, but I'm like, now it's time for you to make good on it. So the next day, the producer calls up and said, okay, so I think we got it. The only thing is we had to send a liaison.
to jamaica where eddie grant lives and we paid him i think it was like 25 25 000 in weed to get him to let us use the song but it was worth it because I was like, no one is ever going to hear that song again without thinking of Wrong Turn 2. And then six weeks before Wrong Turn 2 comes out, goddamn Pineapple Express comes out with the same goddamn song. Do you think they also paid him in weed? Problem. It was pineapple express, Amanda. Of course they did. They probably had much better weed.
I would imagine so. I would imagine they did. And when I did Mayhem, and I won't bore you with the story, but I literally had to stalk Dave Matthews to let me use Ant's Marching for 20 seconds. to be the butt of a joke that my editor, Josh Ethier, threw in while I was shooting because he thought it was going to be a funny joke for me to come back and watch the rough cut. And I'm like, well, fuck, man, I can't not use that now. So I have.
all the respect in the world whenever especially an indie film goes through the rigmarole of having to deal with the whole fucking song but it but the thing is though when you know that song like forget it like at this point That song is beautifully ruined for me because now I'm going to think of that shot of you two in that two shot with the window behind you. And, but, but the thing is that that's the mission accomplished because now.
It was just on Sirius XM. We had it on in the office here. And the song came on like two weeks ago. And boom, I thought of the movie.
that's what yeah i can only think of it now with that song too it came on when lauren and i oh my god i don't even we went some oh we were at the edinburgh fringe festival uh and we went to see a show and all of a sudden in the middle of the show i just hear the first two bars and i know what it is immediately and i just go lauren lauren lauren lauren and she goes what and then she hears it and she goes oh
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