And welcome to another edition of The Movie Crypt. I'm Adam Green. I'm Joe Lynch. We are recording this episode on Monday, November 11th, 2024. I guess when this one airs, it'll still technically be 2024. I almost said last year. Yeah. No, no. This is our conversation with F. Javier Gutierrez. You said it better than I did. Did I? I think so, yeah.
Look at that. I'm the one who always fucks up the names. So it's always better if either you say it or, well, you know, I reiterate it many times before we record and I still fuck it up. Yeah, but we have one coming up in a few weeks where you nailed it. with a difficult name. So I'm, Oh, that's true. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Yeah. Um, anyway, uh, so wait, this isn't,
The Wait, right? That's next week. No, no, this is The Wait. This is The Wait. Don't wait. This is The Wait. Okay, this is The Wait. This is the director of The Wait and Rings and the first film that he did that I remember seeing years ago called Before the Fall. Javier has been kind of in the horror genre for years. I've always seen him.
at like a bunch of screenings and it was one of those like we gotta get you on and he's like yes and then we finally got him on and he said yes but it's a great talk his film The Weight has been kind of hitting the festival trail It's literally played every festival there is. That's true. And it's one of those movies that like when you see the poster, it's just festooned with wreaths all over the place, which to some people that's, you know, that's a selling point. And it's a great.
period-based, kind of supernatural, I guess you can say. You kind of have to see it for yourself. It's psychological thriller, period-based kind of melodrama. It's better to not know anything. Go in as like... blind as possible. We talk about the release date there, but I believe it should be out now. Yes. And yeah, it's a great talk. All right. So enjoy our conversation with F. Javier Gutierrez. C. Yes.
Okay, with all that out of the way, our next guest is someone who, funny enough, I've been wanting to get on the show for years since I saw his first film before the fall, and then he just so happened to just kind of... bamf into one of the advanced screenings of Suitable Flesh. When I saw your lovely face, I was like, the f***?
fuck are you doing here? And you're just like, I just saw your film. That was a terrible impression. Joe's not good at impressions. I'm not good with anything. Do someone Hayek. No. Do it. No. Great. Yeah, there you go. No, baby. No. See, just like I have. You probably thought she was in the room right there. I have people come up to me at conventions and say, do some. And they know that I'm going to sound like Gerard Butler. So this is not good. But you know his films.
Before the Fall, Rings, which came out in 2017, and his new film, The Weight, which I feel has been well worth the wait after a long festival run. It's currently on VOD now. Possibly some new news. imminently about physical media release, please welcome to the Movie Crypt, F. Javier Gutierrez. Yay! Did I do that right? Perfect. Oh, thank God. Before we get into anything, how many festivals do you even know of here?
how many festivals did it play at? Because it seems like it played at like 50 festivals. Yeah, it's a lot. Did you go to all of them? You couldn't have. I couldn't, I couldn't. I was literally like in two places, like flying from one place to another, between Europe. among US. i couldn't make it yeah yeah it's too much it's still really cool though oh yes yes very cool i i send a lot of videos doing intros after a while you become such a master at like making the perfect because
I don't know if you're like me. I have to put production value into it. I put a bed music in. I'm doing edits and shit like that. You know, split screens and chyrons and shit like that. And after a while, you're like. You know, I don't know. I used to make them different for each one. And then after the third or fourth one, I'm like, no one's going to fucking see the one that I did for sitches that I'm also going to do for Australia. I do.
Two different things. I'll either purposely say the wrong festival and that it's my favorite festival. Oh, that's great. If somebody's off camera, it's correcting me. And I'm like, what? You'll cut that out, right? But for Spain, for Frozen, our friend...
Laura speaks Spanish. And so I spoke in English and she translated in Spanish, but she wasn't translating what I was saying. She was just saying what a terrible filmmaker I am that they should get a ticket to something else. I think it's on YouTube. I think you can see it. The same joke. from Anne Frank? Basically, yeah. So you have no new jokes. But I hadn't done Anne Frank yet. So really, Anne Frank...
Oh, so it was like your play on that. My go-to is I answer everyone's questions in the intro. So it'll just be a jump cut of yes, no, 13, 24. Oh, she was a delight. Fuck that guy. Any other questions? And it always killed. What would you say was... No, you should name names. What would you say was the best audience for this particular film? well because it's such a it is such a heavy fucking meal it is heavy yeah i think
Probably, I think probably Sitges. Really? Wait, but did you play at five in the morning? No, no, like night. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah. I still don't get how, because you've had films there. But they show the film so late at night. I know that's the culture there. Yeah, yeah. Hatchett showed at like 3 a.m. Yeah, but 3 a.m. is perfect. I mean, we had dinner at 11.
You're not used to siestas. But then the second night that they were showing it, because I was only there very briefly, they're like, we have a surprise before the film. And I was like, all right, they're going to show a trailer or something. Borat. So they showed the whole movie of Borat. So when Hatchet started, I had to leave to get my flight. So I didn't even do my Q&A and stuff. But getting to see Borat with that crowd went before anybody had seen it.
was, oh my God, I couldn't breathe. I was laughing so hard. You weren't like, see, I wouldn't have enjoyed it because I knew that, oh fuck, mine is next. Any movie that plays before your film. I can't quite enjoy. I learned that lesson. My second festival was Fright Fest in London. It was the premiere of Pan's Labyrinth right before Hatchet. And I'm sure you've seen Guillermo speak. He's brilliant. That's one of my favorite movies ever made.
Everyone's in tears. He's telling this beautiful story about when he was a child. He always imagined this fawn came and visit him. And then they're like, all right, that's all the time we have. We're going to bring up Adam Green from America now. I'm like, geez, and Edgar.
right was sitting next to me he goes you have to follow this but what I found with festival audiences is they're more than happy to switch gears to something else they prefer it actually yeah once you're in a festival I mean I have been like audience for a long time particularly in cities when I was a kid I was going there and I used to to be there for hours like the marathon by night
I was there from 10 o'clock till 6 in the morning watching movies. See, that's bliss to me. I know that it's a rigorous schedule. When you don't have the... pressure of being at a festival under like that's why I love when they can program you like early on because then like like if you do say let's say
fantastic fest. When you are on Friday night, that means you have Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and however else long you're there. You can kind of chill. You can just be like, I'm going to eat barbecue and fucking breakfast tacos and just watch movies. I'll do a little press and everything. but the pressure's off. Like, and now I want to go back because you had to stoke the flames of what you were doing there as a kid.
What was it like being there, you know, in at Sitges just as a patron? And did you ever think like someday? Someday I will have one of my films play at 10 o'clock at night or 3 o'clock in the morning or something. Yes, absolutely. Well, it was like a blast just to go. I mean, I live in the south of Spain, so travel to Sitges. I remember the first time I did it.
It was like a big deal. You had to take a train, go to Madrid, then from Madrid to Barcelona, then from Barcelona to Sitges. So it was like an adventure. But yeah, it is totally worth it. I mean, it's... the number one festival in Spain so that's why it's one of the top festivals in the world yeah now it's in the world it was like it was one of the oldest was it back then
yeah yeah yeah yeah it was like when i was a kid i remember look i started to do like videos short films and this is very funny actually i submit one of my short films it was a video And they have a section that is called Brigadoon. They have it now and it's like more fancy now. But at the time, it was kind of like, you know, the first time they put it together. And it was great. I submitted my show. film like a couple of years after I went and they pick it up and for something I was like
So excited. I said, oh my God. And for some reason that I still don't know what happened, they made a mistake and they sent me all like invitations in the hotel, main hotel. Like I was like a feature film. So I just took it. Take full advantage of that shit. Oh, my God. They give you the meal tickets and stuff, too? Everything. It was better than my latest future. It was all downhill from there. Yeah, all down from there. It's like after that.
any particular movies when you went there? Because we always talk about... you know, the, that first theatrical experience or movies that people remember when they were kids that like changed their life, made them go, I want to make movies. Was there anything at sitches that you saw that you particularly remember as being significant? I mean, particularly in Sieges, yes. I remember random movies, too. Some of them that they made an impact for...
I don't know exactly. They always do. It's the most random ones too. Yeah. You go like, whoa, why am I thinking of that one? There was one called, I think it was called Bert. That is a British or something about that girl. It's about necrophilia. Oh God. Now you've piqued my interest. It was very strange. I don't remember. I think it was the title. bird and this girl that sees like a little bird to die and keep it in a box and she likes it.
And she works in a funeral home. From that point on, you can imagine what happened. It's very strange. So that was one that was very disturbing when I saw it. It's one of the first ones I saw in Sieges. and then of course i remember some of them like the release of the wish master
Oh, wow. I was there with the cast and everything. I remember I was tagging with the meal tickets with the cast in the hotel. I was sitting with them having lunch. Wow. They're like, what films are you here with? Oh, you know, I've got a pretty significant feature. are coming up you know that's amazing yeah yeah did that spoil you at all into thinking like you know it's like oh my god this is so fucking easy like all i got all i gotta do is just make this thing and
Next thing I know, I'm dining next to Andrew Divoff. No, I think I was like, you know, I was conscious of how complicated it was going to be. I mean, I was there by accident somehow. I had my tickets for everything. I had like a hotel room. I still make fun of that when I talk to the people and the staff of the cities. Now they know me. I say, you know, the first time I came here, you treat me like a king. It was the best.
Now the pauper is best. It was very funny. But yeah, I think you can tell. Another movie I remember, I was there, I actually took a picture with... Martin Singh for that one was Spawn. Oh, the comic book one? The comic book one. Really? I was there. So you were there in like the mid to late 90s, that era. Yes, yes. Where...
genre was kind of evolving alongside indie film. Yeah. You know, cause for all intents and purposes, and I'm sure that this was like Sitges was affected by this as well. You know, when people look back at the nineties, It doesn't have quite the significant cultural footprint. with genre and horror like the eighties did or the seventies did, or maybe like post nine 11, you know, there's some movies that we can think about, but for the most part, they don't really have.
that much of maybe Scream. Obviously, everyone goes back to Scream. Blair Witch Project. Yeah, but that was 99. Still technically 90s. Still fine, but I can name on maybe five fingers how many of those movies between. Seven and Silence of the Lambs. That broke into mainstream pop culture in a big way. There weren't as many. Were you always interested in horror? Now that I've seen enough of your work, first off, I really want you to make a comedy.
I think it's time for a rom-com. I think you need to do one of those Hallmark Christmas movies. I think you've earned it with this one. I get that a lot. Yeah, you need to do something lighter. I want to see you do a Hallmark movie. it is, it was like, there is a particular darkness that you bring. And every time that I've seen you, you have the biggest shit eating grin, you know, every, like every time that we meet or I see you out and stuff like that. And he's like, he's so nice. And then.
watch your movies and you go jesus you get a lot of stuff out you know what was like was horror always of interest to you when you were a kid, when you were kind of burgeoning as a filmmaker? Or was this something that you picked up along the way? No, it was always there. I mean, one of the movies that actually... was like my reference when I was a kid, I remember it made an impact, was the Phantom of the Paradise. Oh, man. Which now in the last like five years...
has become kind of like De Palma's Halloween 3. I hadn't seen it until, I don't remember what it was, like seven or eight years ago. A listener sent me the Blu-ray. And what did you think of it? Or the DVD, I think. I loved it. And the thing is, once I started it, I'm like, oh, I've seen parts of this somehow. But I never actually just sat and watched that movie before. But it's fantastic. It was one of those movies that you couldn't really find a good copy on video for a long time, too.
It just... It confounded a lot of people because we grew up. There was the diploma that like our parents grew up with, which was in the 70s with sisters and Carrie and obviously blow out and dress to kill and stuff like that. We were.
Growing up with De Palma Where he was more mainstream Like Untouchables And Mission Impossible Don't forget Raising Cain Raising Cain You know But And you look back at where Phantom of Paradise lands, and it lands in such a weird time in his career, like when he was still possibly doing more comedy, like Greetings, you know, or...
There's one movie, I'm so curious if you've seen this movie too. He did a movie called Home Movies. Did you ever hear of it? What's it? It's called Home Movies. It probably has another title in Spanish. I'm sure it does. It's a movie he did in between...
like, what was it? Obsession and the Fury and Blowout, where he was teaching at, I think it was like Emerson College. He was teaching at a college and he basically told everybody, we're going to make a movie together with the students. And he did. And he brought in all. Like, Garrett Graham and Keith Gordon and all these actors from all of his other movies up to that point. Kirk Douglas is in the movie. And they did it for school.
And it's really hard to get. I'm sure you can probably find it online, but it's basically an experiment. But you look back at, because I just watched Phantom of Paradise again in the last six months, and it's... So weird. But it's gloriously weird. And you can't not go, that's a De Palma movie.
Were you a fan of other De Palma movies as well? Yeah, absolutely. I love all the, like, starting with sisters, all of them, you know? And one story I have about the Phantom of the Paradise that... i don't think people know actually is that i was talking with um this is it's a long it happened a long time ago
with Ed Pressman. Yeah, Edward Pressman. Well, because of The Crow, right? Well, that was after. Oh, okay. Before The Crow, I had a meeting with him in London and we were talking about remaking. Phantom of the Paradise. Shut up. Oh, really? Yes. Yes. Yes. And we actually, I put a take and we were moving forward. I was still in Spain. I had no idea of like, I was going to come here or it was like, like.
I just made my sharp thing at the time. So we're talking to... Before the fall. Before the fall. Before the fall. Before the fall. Before the fall. So it was like, yeah, I made a sharp film. Brazil. It's in YouTube. You can see everywhere. I won Sieges with the Sheraton. He was there at the time, I think. I was around the time. that he had like a remake he made for Sisters at Pressman. We got to know in Bilbao.
I don't remember. He emailed me. He said, I'm in Bilbao. I want to talk to you. He saw the short film. And then I had a meeting with him in London. And yeah, we were like talking about doing it. It was very complicated because of the music rights. Yeah. That was the main thing.
We had like a, it was going to be fun. Absolutely. And crazy. And very, yeah. And you had seen it up, obviously you'd seen it by then. But did you ever feel though? Because you've been somewhat, your name has floated around in. a lot of kind of properties that are considered Bible to many.
You know, like you were attached to The Crow at one point. Obviously, you worked on, you know, the sequel to the sequel to Rings. You know, like you played in a lot of sandboxes that some people would say, like, man, you're like, that's...
almost religious in terms of, and Phantom of Paradise. I remember there was another version of Phantom of Paradise that was being floated around. I think Edgar Wright was going to do it at one point. And I remember immediately people like, you can't do that. Oh my God. And everyone flip out and everything. But did you ever feel at all like, how do I approach that unless it's something that's so far out of what the context is for the original film? Yeah. I mean, as you said, I mean, yeah.
I'm lucky enough that I have been actually... about to do a bunch of them there's other ones like with waste craving i don't know if you don't know that story with people under the stairs yeah that one too and then one that i was about to do for that is like very
Popular in Spain, but not here. It's the Anguish with Biggest Luna. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So those kind of projects, first of all, are things that I... i really love always um that i respect a lot so when they give me the chance to talk about it or to try to make it i i literally like take like some days to think about it because i i want to do always something different yeah at the same time respectful and special so i try not to go like an opposite direction because
Because I'm a fan myself of those properties. They call them properties. But I saw them when I was a kid. And I really, really loved them. And I was in love with the director's work. That's the thing. A lot of the properties that you were... you know pitching or that became public that you were like somewhat involved with with the development when you think of the crow you think of alex proyas when you think of you know um either ringu with you know uh you know
say his name because I'm stupid but you know like Gore Verbinski you know like with the remake yes you know Phantom of Paradise with De Palma yeah it's like scary I remember when there were people floating around talk of the like when Suspiria before Luca took over. When they were first talking about Suspiria, everyone was like, how dare you? You can't do Suspiria. And obviously Luca said like, hold my...
Hold my cerveza. It's like, here, I got this. You can remake anything if it's good, except for E.T. Oh, yeah? Have you seen Mac and Me? I'm working on the sequel right now. Oh, God, that's terrifying. But, yeah, but you can't, like, there's just, there's certain...
I don't know. I just think that there's so many movies where people have been like that. Texas Chainsaw. Remember when that got announced and everyone was like, this is sacrilege. You can't possibly, the remake was great. So it's just.
I think the coolest thing about it and what I love about even some of the situations it sounds like you were in where the original filmmaker was interested in speaking to you about... telling that story again but it does i'm not like i've never been anti-remake it kind of sucked in the mid-2000s when everything had to be a remake or audiences wouldn't go to see it but
It just makes these characters live on, like Dracula, Frankenstein, all these things. They just keep going, and new generations tell the stories. It keeps happening because somehow characters that they, I mean... For example, with the crow situation I love the original movie. I love Alex Proyas. I'm a huge fan of him. So when they told me to do it, I was thinking, what can we do? Because I...
I don't want to try to repeat with like a different actor the original movie. So I always go back to the roots and I went to see, to read again the graphic novel. And then it's when I saw the light there. It's like, okay, what we have to do is the graphic novel. Because if you see the graphic novel and the movie, they're, I mean, they have...
Similar artists. That's the James O'Barr. The James O'Barr. So at the time, I remember I become obsessed with that. I talked to the producers and everybody. They were like, well, it's... You know, he's an artist, right? So I phoned him through Facebook and I emailed him and I told him, like, I want to get to know you.
I want to talk to you about this story. I hope that's not what you really wrote at first because, man, that's like Creepsville right there. I want to get to know you. Nothing would make me talking faster. I want to get to know you. Hit me back. Like and subscribe. Yeah. Well, that's something like, you know, with broken English like that. Yeah. So, yeah, I took a flight and I went to Dallas and I met him.
And we were having tequila for two days. I didn't know there was tequila from Dallas, actually. I didn't either until now. Probably. And we became friends. And then I saw the way to... you know, to do something different and special and unique and respecting Alex and doing a movie more about the James O'Barr idea. That it was very romantic, was very surreal. What makes me happy...
It's about the crow because obviously everyone sitting here loves that film. But over time, I always hear people refer to it, their love for it as this. beautiful gothic love story which is what I always saw in it too but so many people it became about Brandon Lee, and it just became about how cool it looks, the soundtrack that just for maybe like the first 10 years, but the legacy of it is that gothic love story. Because I'd say that and like...
Candyman probably are like the only two from that time. Well, like how Bernard turned that into romance. Yeah. But it wasn't, it just wasn't something. I mean, some people would say you go back to Dracula or whatever, the original Dracula. Well, even the Coppola one. That one for sure. But it just, because it doesn't beat you over the head with it and keep saying, this is a love story, this is a love story.
but it is a love story. And that as great as the spectacle was of that film and all of it. the thing that everyone remembers is it can't rain all the time. Like that line that David Scott wrote was just like, Oh, was that in the comic? I think he wrote that. I don't think so. Anyway. Normally we wait on viewer mail, but there's a question specifically about this. So while we're on it, I just want to ask. Do we have to do the theme?
Oh, well, I guess so. It's just the one question. Okay. Hold on. There it is. Okay. This is from Dan. Hey guys, hope everyone is doing well. Not to turn this into a gossip kind of podcast.
Sorry. But does Mr. Gutierrez have any stories he can tell about the production of The Crow? Well, I thought it was a very visually interesting film. Personally, I couldn't connect with it. How would the version that he was going to direct have been different or similar? I'm guessing he's talking about the latest one that came out.
this one uh like look we're all friends here did you see it uh the last one i didn't want to see it i i saw it i saw it and look i'm i hate slagging on anyone's films we are who are we to say anything because um our good friend amanda saw it and loved it absolutely loved it and I'm like well that's good enough reason for me to check it out and it wasn't for me it just it wasn't I think I have the baggage of what
Alex did with the original. It's a different beast, and I... guarantee that there's going to be a contingent of this generation who's never even seen the original one the Brandon Lee one that that's going to be their jam because they grew up with like you know John Wick movies and stuff look at Rob Zombie's Halloween yeah exactly when that before it even came out.
our generation mainly wouldn't even give it a chance. They wanted to hate it, but there's a whole generation that came up under us that loves it. And that's their Michael Myers. So, you know, good for them. Yeah. I think, I think, I mean, I haven't seen it. I tried a little bit, but at some point I felt like I have to see it out of context. I didn't want to see it now with all...
People really talking really about the movie and everything. It's the sort of thing I bet that if you, from a technical standpoint, because I like Rupert Sanders, that director. Yeah, he's pretty cool. I think he's a visualist. As a visualist. The guy is a fucking amazing shooter. Very good. And it feels like... This is where... How old are you? 50.
Get the fuck out of here. You're 50. Jesus Christ. He wears it well. All right. I'm 49. I think I wear it okay. I'm 36. You look like you're 90. Suck my dick. Do you guys remember when Legend came out? Oh, yes. See, I remember when it came out and I remember the promos for it. And, you know, this is when Tom Cruise wasn't really Tom Cruise. It was just like, oh, that young upstart guy, you know, that was in a couple of hits.
And I remember when Legend came out and everyone was slagging on it. They were out for blood. And now... People have a reverence for it. I think it's one of those... I think this new Crow... had way too much baggage behind it because i also went in there was one point where i had read a version of the script to pitch on
And we've talked about this on the show. One of the worst screenplays I have ever read in my entire life. Every other sentence was an ellipsis. And he was a cop in that one. You didn't have that in any part with the cop one, right? There was like a... There was a version. It was a version of a copy, I remember. But it felt like, like you were saying before, I think our reverence as both filmmakers, storytellers, but also as fans.
And hearing, you know, one version of that story that we go, you know, that's the version that we were affected by. And then to go, now, how do I make it different, but not super different? where we can feel like we're making our own stamp on it, but it still feels like it has the same spirit. This felt like the writer went like, okay, I'm going to go complete 180.
On this story, you're going to make him a cop. Of course, he's going to lose his wife, but that's the only similarity to it. And that's it. Oh, there was a crow. There was a crow in there as well, floating around somewhere. This could not have been more 180, and it felt like they were just making choices to be contrarian.
And I was like, I could not have thrown that the fuck across the room fast enough. I was like, nope, not for me. And this new one doesn't do it nearly as much. I would be very curious what you think. And give it five years. Yeah. On a plane, maybe. I'll take it at some point. Now that people are forgetting about it, at some point I'll just go home in my hometown and I'll watch it. And hopefully I like it, yes.
All right, getting back to your journey in the beginning, though. So you made a short film. It played at Stitches. How did you get your first feature financed? Like, how did you get the money together in order to make it?
And that is okay. But it's before the fall? Before the fall. Yes, yes, that's before the fall. Which now I remember where I saw it. It was at Screamfest. It played here in Screamfest. Okay, that's where we saw it. Because I remember we saw it together. Yeah, yeah, Screamfest, yeah. Well, it was like a complicated story. It was after, yeah, I was going around with the short film, like again, like a lot of festivals and everything.
And I started to get calls for projects and I was this producer that is the producer of The Way that is now my good friend, old school producer from Spain. who said, we want to work with you. He was partnering with Antonio Banderas, actually. Never heard of him. Puss in boots, dude. Oh, I love that guy. Love that dude. Sorry, carry on. So he was doing something like they were putting together a company and they wanted to produce like talent from the south of Spain and things like that.
and and my shopping at the time was like everywhere um was winning awards and all these things and then uh oh wow oh yes yes i remember the story now it's uh It's complicated. I was in Berlin actually at the time because it's a long story. I had a girlfriend in Berlin and I was there. Usually long story, girlfriend. Usually go hand in hand with each other. Yes. amazing. I was living there for a while and I was in the Berlin Alley, in the festival.
I didn't want to go because of a personal thing. I was trying to put together a movie for a long time and something happened in Spain and didn't work out. So I escaped to Berlin. um i remember that uh i'm gonna try to do this short version because there is too many funny details actually but it's like well the things that i was
in the screening of a movie that Antonio Banderas was part of it. Basically what happened is that in the restroom at the end of the movie I hear a voice saying, are you Javier Gutierrez? from speaking Spanish and it was this producer that became a good friend. I was like, huh? Like, who's in the restroom asking Spanish if I'm Javier Gutiérrez? And he's like, well, I heard, I mean, I saw your short film.
I think you're very interesting. We want to talk about it. Do you want to have a drink? So I went to the screening of, I mean, to the... after party of that movie, and in that place I got to know Antonio Banderas. They say, well, we would like to find something to work together. It was pretty much like... to be in the right place, in the right moment. In that case, it's like this kind of thing, these miracles happen, you know, because I was...
But oftentimes that doesn't actually lead to anything. You have that moment where you're like, I can't believe I just had this conversation with these people and this is so great. And then you just don't hear it. Most of the time, it never happens. I remember I took the flight. And I thought, well, it's not going to happen. My girlfriend at the time was saying, Javier, just go with it. It's going to happen. And I was like, okay. So I just went with it.
And basically, like literally, two months later, I was writing across my house in Madrid. And the script, like, writing, it's a long story, but it was like... They sent me like four scripts. By accident, they sent me a fourth one. And the fourth one was a kid's movie written by a kid's writer. Interesting.
uh that was called el verano de la roca it's like the summer of the rock meaning rock like a space rock yeah coming so these the other three were like the other three were like horror thrillers yeah And I didn't like that. I thought it was meaningful. But this one, it was about kids and was very sweet because it was a very sweet writer that I got to know that write things for kids.
And then I said, I didn't like the scripts, but I liked this one, but it's like a kid's story. So if I have the freedom to do a whole... from page one rewrite and do it for adults I will do something like darker talking about the the innocence and all those elements and they say yeah go for it and i remember like literally two weeks two months later uh i finished the script of of before the fall in in the library
I was going to say, like, he walks in super nice, sweet face. If I can kill the kids, I'll do the kids. But that's what I mean. Like the fact that you can. Transmorph a smile into something sinister or a kid's story into an apocalyptic nightmare. That's just your MO. So what you need to do is work with Pixar. Yes.
and do a reboot of WALL-E. Oh, Disney was killing off beloved characters in the first 30 minutes. Of course. One of my first meetings in town when I arrived because of Before the Fall was with Disney. They picked the movie and they... I am not surprised at all. Was it Pixar or Disney? It was Disney, Disney, yes. When Frozen played at...
I'll be really quick because some of the audience has heard this. When Frozen premiered at Sundance, this guy comes up to me afterwards and he's like, we'd love to have you come by and talk to our people. And I was like, sure, sure. And he hands me his card and it was Pixar.
And so that was the only person where I called. And he was like, oh, we're so glad you called. Yeah, we just we love to bring interesting movies in and screen them for everyone on the campus and just let them pick your brain and ask you some questions. And next thing you know, they have me on a flight to San Francisco.
go and I'm like I can't believe like you guys are the greatest storytellers in the world what the fuck do you care about what I did and it was the best Q&A I'd ever had it was long like the questions about the writing characters this that like And then getting to tour that campus and see how they do things there. But I love that there's people who work at places like Disney and Pixar and stuff.
who can recognize something and what people like us do as storytellers and be like, we want to talk. Like, it's interesting. No, that's amazing. And they do actually the research. I had like calls from the most random... places i mean yeah i mean now i actually tag into someone honor too oh yeah just to get that call you know yeah yeah it's it's shocking and it's beautiful because it tells a lot about
creativity of all like just the respect you know like it's nice when acknowledgement yeah then when they they can acknowledge they didn't just have their assistant watch the movie and give them coverage and stuff like that like yeah they actually did their due diligence Everyone who...
dares to try to do this especially for a career you're in such a vacuum while you're making it and you have no idea if anyone's even going to see it if it's going to connect with people if it's going to get a chance to be seen if it's just going to like wind up on some random streaming service and no one knows that it's there. You have no idea. So when somebody sees it who...
Especially when it's like a peer or somebody who does this for a living and they recognize there was something there enough to want to actually reach out. It's like, it's very validating. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's, it's amazing. And yeah, it happens. Yeah. I wanted to ask, before we move on to the impact of the movie, no pun, what was it like? Because you had, up to that point, had been doing short films. Had you done music videos as well?
No, well, I did one once, like a long time ago. Somebody called me after my short film, I remember, and I got the job. And I did it just to pay my, I don't remember, to pay my first ticket to LA. Yeah. It worked out well. It worked out well. But what would you say? I've done shit for pizza before. Hey, I'll do anything for free food.
What would you say was the biggest challenge going from short film to feature film at that point? Because one of the things that not only... When you look at Before the Fall, I remember going in... seeing the poster reading like I didn't realize a lot of the other elements and I don't want to give too much away because like
I hope it's on streaming. It is. The serial killer element in it and stuff. What was it for you, the jump from short film to feature film, what would you say was the biggest challenge for you? I think the biggest challenge probably was endure the shooting, you know, because I'm very perfectionist. When I did that, I remember... Is that why you edit your own...
Yeah. I cut my things. I do the production design too. If they let me do it, I do everything that I can. Because I'm very obsessive. I'm super obsessive. And when I do that with a short film, for example, Brazil, that short film, I produced it myself. And I remember it was like seven days shooting in a lot of different locations and everything. And I literally had no...
second unit, because I never had a second unit. I wanted to do it. So when the crew was going home, I stayed with a new crew that was coming to the set. Oh, you had, like, a splinter unit that, like, came out just for that? handle that. They were exhausted after 12-hour shooting so I sent them home.
uh it was a sharpened made with like students pretty much from the film school in spain i never went to film school but i hired everybody from film school because like in a way that when you're when you're a student Like I went to Syracuse and they would have film shoots there and they would, I don't want to use the word pray, but they would, let's just say.
Take creative advantage of the fact that there was a lot of kids who would probably stay up for a long time and just get just for the opportunity of shooting anything that has to do with like, holy crap. that this is a real movie. But that's, for them, what a great experience. That's what I did. And what I'm always fascinated by is whatever, wherever the location is that we're going to be filming, we usually, the production will put out a call for...
anybody who wants to come and intern on it. And then we ask, what department are you interested in? And it could be, you know, we want to work in wardrobe or effects or... A lot of times you'll get like six dudes who look like us who's like, I want to shadow the director. But then some places you go, either just no one's interested or it's just, but.
I would have killed for that like growing up, but, or maybe it shouldn't say they're not interested. They might not know about it, you know, cause you call like the local film commission and you let them know or whatever.
But sometimes you get the greatest people, you meet the greatest people, and then you end up finding out like three years later they're working on... something professionally because of someone they met on that crew who kept like hiring them for other stuff it's it's amazing it is it is very cool so it is like uh Yeah. So, yeah, well, that's the thing that I put like a crew for seven days to make the short film. And yeah, I had to change it.
I didn't sleep like for days. Like I was destroyed. So why? Because you wouldn't have been able to sleep if you had the. The idea that someone else was going to do those inserts. Cause that's how I am. I can't, I don't like second unit because I've had that happen before I did. Um, when I did the Netflix movie, we had a second unit. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. That's what they wanted to call themselves.
I'd say nine out of 10 of those shots, unusable. And you know what? It's not their fault, really, unless you're sitting there and taking a photo board or sketching it out exactly how you want it. more times than not, they're not going to know what's inside your head, especially if you edit too. It's really hard. It's really hard. Actually, in the short thing, I really had to have a second unit, now that I think of, for shoots in a... uh,
water plant. But I literally went the day before and I took pictures with the DP and I give them the pictures. I said, I want statics of the plant. This, this, this, and this. So I have four shots that I was not there and still I was... I've been very lucky with Second Unit and the few times that I've had it where...
It was all usable. The stuff that you had for Frozen was great. I remember looking at those inserts going, oh, those are quality fucking inserts, man. Yeah, Frozen, not only was it the inserts of stuff, but it was also wide shots of stunts. Victor Crowley without Ben Rock there. Yeah. Ben did like a whole scene scene and that Laura up in the tree and stuff like that because we had 11 days to shoot a feature. Like it's ridiculous. But Ben was fucking great.
because I was just like, this is what I'm looking for. Have another filmmaker that you trust is a big thing. And he made choices that were fantastic. Speaking of filmmakers you trust, so... I remember after we had seen Scream Fest, I remember the word around the campfire was was that Wes Craven was circling the project. And was this before or after the festival run? Like, was he when was he?
getting involved in wanting to possibly redo it. People on this service were talking. Was that what it was? Yeah, yeah. It's like... Actually, my movie before the fall was in the AFI. Okay. They called me because of the AFI screening. See, these are the calls we always hear about, but we never fucking get where you're like, we've witnessed some. Yeah, sure. In front of us. We just don't get those calls. Fuck. And wait, were you a fan of?
people under the stairs at that point? Absolutely. I mean, I love West Kremlin. I mean, you can't imagine me coming from Spain, getting a call from West. I was in shock. He's the most unassuming man. Just quiet and sweet. Super sweet. The nicest. Loved watching birds. That was his jam. Wasn't he already kind of sick at that point, though?
No, he was perfect. He actually came to support the screening of Before the Fall in the Cinematheque. We had a screening. Oh, wow. He came with his family. Oh, man. No, no, I like, I mean, I always be grateful. He was amazing. He helped me. With the visa, he signed a letter that I still keep a friend saying, my name is Wes Craven. Considering that, like, see, some directors, when you get to a certain plateau, like Wes did when he had his... My God, his third...
kind of reinvention of himself with Scream when he got into the aughts when he was supporting filmmakers like Alexander Aja and Martin Weiss. It was a bunch of filmmakers that when he was... using his properties to allow other new filmmakers to kind of...
come up with those visions. I thought that was so fucking cool. Amazing. What a great idea, too. And the best thing, I mean, I was at the time that he just finished The Last House on the Left with Dennis Iliades. That's right. The Greek one. Oh, that was, you know.
I revisited it. I was mad at that movie because I was up for it. I made a fake trailer and everything. And when Dennis got it, I was just like, son of a bitch. And then I saw his movie. I went, oh, fuck it. Okay, fine. That was cool. I was in the... the screening in the opening here with Wes and everything and the beautiful things that when I was talking about people under the stairs with Wes he was like
the coolest I mean he was like you just came up with your vision Javier don't worry about anything don't even think about the rating we'll figure it out later like he had a confidence To him, and I think it was probably from how intelligent he was, but he always just seemed, no matter what...
I never worked on anything with him, but just in my interactions, just so intelligent and so smart. Very smart. But so kind all the time. Very kind. So, I mean, at the time, I remember I had like some meetings and, you know, usually coming from Spain. with your broken accent, you get nervous going to meetings.
With Wes, I was like, I forget. I forgot he was Wes Craven when I was talking with him because he was such an amazing human being and makes you feel so comfortable. So wait, what year was this? That was like probably like 2009. Yeah. Okay. So do you remember, this is my favorite Wes Craven story because it's not going to have that many, but behind his desk in his office, there was that swamp thing. poster it had been folded and stuff is huge
So in 2013, when the Boston Marathon bombing happened, I'm from that area. So I put together this three-day fundraiser to raise money for the victims of the bombing. And Wes gave that poster.
the one from behind his desk to the auction. I don't remember exactly how much it went for, but he signed it and everything. And the thing was, I hadn't... asked him i didn't reach out and say do you have anything he just heard about it and and offered it like that's who he was same rob zombie same thing gave two signed guitars i didn't ask like he just heard i was doing this and get like this
community for like the sick movies that yeah these people make nicest nicest right big-hearted lovely people yeah yeah i always say the same thing the fans are the same way like everyone always expects like my friends I grew up with when I'm talking about doing a run of like conventions and they're like so what is that like just a bunch of like morbid goth kids who are into death and I'm like no it's families it's like just the nicest people nicest people
like horror people is horror family yes yes yeah so when like one of the things i remember when we were watching before the fall even like afterwards and stuff there's just there's filmmakers there's voices where you go I'm very excited to see what they do next. And when you have stuff like people under the stairs possibility, you can kind of like go, okay, I hear their sound. It's like a band. I hear their sound. I can see their vision. How does that apply?
to say like an IP. Now, there's a great book that Barry Sonnenfeld just put out, the famous DP. He had a book like two years ago that he put out that was all based on his life. He did another one that is just anecdotes, just crazy stories that happened on the set of Blood Simple and, you know, you know, the Addams Family and working with Walter Parks.
on the face that you just made is the reason why I wish we had video. But when he started talking about Walter Park, working with Parks on the Men in Black movies, and then I immediately remembered... What you had gone through, because if correct me if I'm wrong, the rings was supposed to come out in 2015, right? Well, we, I think, I don't want to dig too much dirt on, but this, this whole, this whole.
journey that we go on with this podcast is about the trials and tribulations. And I, and I there, when you, you should really listen to this book because when he talks about Walter parks, it's like, there was a reason why my hair fell out and his name is Walter parks. So you used to have hair, you know, it's like maybe, maybe not anymore. But the reason why I bring that up is because look, the, When you have... In our genre, it is easy for many of us to port onto...
bigger studio films. We've seen the rise, like look at fucking Adam Wingard, you know, going from something like The Guest and you're next to fucking Godzilla movies. Sometimes they're easy transitions, sometimes they're not. So, you know... I felt watching the weight that you had. It's a very personal film. It also felt very much like maybe not exactly like this, but.
when I did Nights of Bad Astem, there was so much anger and so much pain that went into making that movie that when I eventually made something like Everly, I can see that as a very angry reaction artistically to what I went through when I was dealing with something. that was a much bigger scale, a lot more cooks in the kitchen. What was it like going from beyond the fall and then kind of...
going into something that was so much a studio film with rings. And I only bring it up, I don't mean to bring it up to dredge up the pain, but for so many filmmakers that are listening to this, it's good to hear these sort of stories, you know, and if anything. think it's very therapeutic for you, hopefully. Yeah, well, when you work with a studio, particularly in a franchise,
It's complicated. I mean, you coming from an independent world that you are used to do everything and take care of your baby because it's like your baby. just the transition is it's complicated because at some point you realize that it's 20% about filmmaking and 80% about politics. Yeah, and commerce. I always say 10% about filmmaking, 90% bullshit. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. So it is complicated. I don't know. I mean... I... ah.
I don't regret anything because I think it's... You can't because you'd never be able to be where you are and make that film. Think of it. Because the first question I had when I was watching the movie was... like what would have been like if rings turned out somewhat successfully and creatively business wise, you know, would you have gone back to, you know, making a, you know, a,
foreign language film like this and something that was so personal to you you might have been caught up in the you know the the business storm of making another rings or another ip or something like who knows you might have done the crow who fucking knows you were so smart to take that off
opportunity because everyone should you can always go back to what your love and passion is but like see how it goes because what if it does go great it is it's i think it's like Wes used to say, actually, I think his one, I remember his last tweet was something like take any job.
to open the door or something like that and then just go from there so i think it's uh i mean i love the project of rings obviously the idea the concept it ended like changing but it was like a company it's not like only like because of the producer or anything. It was a complicated time for Paramount. Yeah. It's such a weird transitional period for them. We had like a... They're still dealing with it now.
We had different presidents in the movie. I started with Adam Goodman, and we ended with Mark, that I love. He was amazing and very kind. But it was just, you know, it was a complicated situation for a first-time filmmaker. studio so and everybody tried to do the best but obviously you cannot take over saying okay this is my vision like a european filmmaker you know you cannot do that so you have to i feel like they respect
Foreign filmmakers far more than American filmmakers. Because it's something about when you speak something, when you say something and you have an accent, it sounds so much smarter than anything us assholes say. Look at the way we are with anybody British. Whatever they say, I'm like...
fuck you're so smart that's why our wives probably have accents because they sound so much cooler than us my wife is right about everything she's the most brilliant person I've ever met she's Irish my wife is like fucking sophisticated and everything she says she could be talking about fucking made in Manhattan I'm like that's
fantastic observation about that Jennifer Lopez film yes if I start talking about it I sound like a fucking idiot so my wife's like yeah that person there's a fucking and I'm like well both are brilliant they also need subtitles sometimes sometimes yeah maybe that's why I think she said smart because i can't understand how when you sorry sorry but what like when when did you know when things were going south
Or that you were starting to... Because I can remember any time that there was a film that I can see myself creatively as not being my most... I guess for, or like fulfilling creatively. I can remember a meeting or a moment or a day where I'm like, Oh, and it was just something like there was like where there was a power shift.
do you remember a certain time or was it a, like a death by a thousand cuts kind of thing? Cause I remember seeing the movie and going, cause to be fair, I love the first one and I thought it was very shrewd idea to bring. the original director of Ringu back to do the sequel, but something definitely got lost in translation there.
I had a lunch in cities last year with Hideo. Did you really? Yeah, two lunches, actually. Oh, my God. We saw each other, and it was like a love story. You both went through a collective traumatic experience. trauma uh we we tag a lot and we have like amazing two two amazing launches god for him though to have created this thing and go full circle around again back when it becomes this worldwide phenomenon and then be treated like that
Yeah. Because they know better than he does? And the problem, I mean, Hideo had another problem, too, that his English was not... that great yeah didn't have a translator on the set yeah he really struggled with the English and he was a little bit lost because I couldn't do it, man. In Shada, actually, he made it and survived. Because I was like, oh my God, you probably suffer through the whole process. And he keeps it there.
But it was very nice, actually, that lunch with him, those two lunches. And then he took the flight and he left and he's like, let's meet again when you come to Japan or something. So he was the nicest, the sweetest guy again. But yeah, he had a... problem too because it was like too many people you know too many cooks in the kitchen kitchen yeah um and it's very complicated and it's not specifically i would say about
one or the other. It's just a combination of forces pulling in different directions. You as director try as much as you can to protect the baby. and at some point you realize that well this is it's not my movie you know it's unfortunately i cannot bringing to my area so i'm gonna try to do the best i can to fulfill the vision of these people because either you do that or you walk out you know and
I feel very responsible too when I have a job with the studio in the case because they try to do the best. I'm so glad you're saying this because fellow writers sometimes will be like... Oh man, I just got the worst notes. They're trying to ruin the movie. No one's trying to ruin the movie. Everybody has the best intentions. It's just sometimes you're not all A, making the same movie or B, making your movie that you want to make. Exactly.
I've never had that happen to me because everything for the most part that then was independent. I've had scripts that I wrote for studios just completely get to Aquaman, like take the scenes with water out like nothing will ever beat that note. but it was more in the marketing or whatever where I vehemently disagreed with what they were doing and it's out of my hands because they own it now. Or I've been so severely limited in time and resources that I know...
in the moment of making it, this is not what I wanted at all. But I have to make my day, and this is what it is. But to be in a situation like you were in, where it's a studio film, there are resources, there is time, but then you have... this chorus of people from every angle and you're the one who's got to steer the ship, it's just hard, really hard. It is complicated because you actually, talking about Walter, he's so passionate.
he really loves the movie. He really wants to do the best. He's not coming from a terrible place. It's just when you're not aligned, it becomes fractious. So the things that I respect then, and I...
I get along with them. I talk to them, actually, very much. Because I understand where they come from. They try to do the best. Sometimes they think that they have the solution, and they don't. But you, as filmmaker... either you can convince them and sometimes you cannot convince them you know and they came up with you know like ideas that maybe
One out of ten are brilliant. I try to keep those ones. It's like, okay, that was a good one. I'm going to keep. But you cannot keep the ten out of them. Because me as a creative, I know that a lot of times I put a lot of ideas for a script.
maybe one is good and the other nine I was in love with them but eventually I realized that oh my god I'm a fool what I'm gonna do so they sometimes they don't have that filter the skill of the craft of know that you don't came up with the best idea and you try as much as you can try to to help them to see that sometimes they don't see it
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