It's enough. The Movie Crypt! And welcome to another edition of The Movie Crypt. I'm Adam Green. I'm Joe Lynch. We are recording this episode way back on Monday, October 28th, 2020. 24 but this episode which is number 599 is going to run for thanksgiving so happy thanksgiving everybody
Thanksgiving dinner is going to be very interesting this year, I'd say. Well, it's been pretty shitty for about 10 years now for most people. But this one's going to be particularly interesting in conversation. Well, let's just... hope for the best uh at the time we're recording this we're what eight days out from our united states election and um
I just want things to go back to normal, man. Who knows? Welcome to the new normal, Adam. No, I refuse to accept that. Anyway, next. I'd rather the nude normal. Before we get to this week's conversation, a quick reminder, as we just said, this is going to be episode 599, which means next week will be... our milestone 600th episode. We recorded it a few days ago now.
And we're not going to be announcing who the guest is. There was no viewer mail posted. Who could it be? We wanted to keep it a surprise. And we're really, really excited for you guys to hear it. I know we always say, like, oh, my God, it's one of the best conversations of the year.
year this was definitely it was one for the books it was fantastic we'll say no more but you're really going to be excited when you see who it is and uh we really think you're going to enjoy that happy thanksgiving to everybody this is our conversation with actress-turned-filmmaker, Kat Shea, and there's some really good stuff in this. For anybody out there who is a fan like I am of her latest film, her Netflix film. I didn't realize that you had seen it.
Rescued by Ruby? Yeah. Every animal movie, I have to watch it. But there's something she reveals about Bear, the dog who played Ruby in the film. When you started talking about it, I was like... Wow, someone did their research. I legitimately, when it came out, I'm like, I gotta watch this. See, I thought it was like... I didn't even know it was her when I first started watching it. See, I thought it was like, oh, the poster at the top said, from the director of Poison Ivy.
i don't think it's no it did definitely did not say that no um but for those of you who are into animal rescue you're gonna love the true story well the movie's based on a true story but the dog who played ruby has a great backstory and i just wish more people knew it in fact i wish more people could have known that before the movie came out because it makes now i almost want to re-watch it because i'll see it in a
Totally different way. Like if you don't know Kat Shea's work, if you haven't seen the description, you definitely know her work from Poison Ivy and The Rage. But I'm going to talk about this shit in like 30 seconds. Yes. I'm just very excited because this is someone that we've wanted on for a very long time. So there you go.
This would be a good time to remind everybody. Now next week, because it's the 600th episode, whenever it's a big episode, whether it's a round table or a milestone episode, we do release the entire episode to the public. normally it's just the first hour that's free just a reminder that we do this show independently you didn't just have to skip through two and a half minutes of commercials for simply safe or tommy john underwear or you
Universal Halloween Horror Nights, why some podcasts are still playing that and Halloween's over, I don't know. We do the show independently. We rely on our patrons in order to do it. It's only a dollar a month. That's a quarter.
a week to get the full version of every episode remember too when you sign up you can go all the way back to when we first started this only releasing the first hour which was a couple years ago and get the full version of all those episodes the second you sign up if you want our full catalog it's only what is it three dollars five dollars for classic crypts
The moment you sign up, it's like 360 episodes or something. We're on 353 right now. So yes, that's a lot of content. Yes. So many good interviews. I listen back to these every week sometimes. twice a week and like because we do a new intro we do intros for them that are like reflections yeah every Wednesday you get a classic episode we've been releasing them in order starting with episode one but
Not to suck our own dicks. But for the people who signed up originally, you had to wait each week. Now when you sign up, you instantly get all of them. And might I say, there are some fantastic interviews. I just listened to one yesterday that maybe...
one of my favorite Dan Pearl the DP of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre oh my god two and a half hour episode you know like we started when we started out it was like between 145 and 2 sometimes if three and a half if Darren Bowsman shows up it's a three and a half hour
We were a little more unruly. Now we've gotten it down to, you know, a svelte 90 minutes. 90 to two hours. But when you have a two and a half hour episode, you know it's good. And that one is one of the best conversations we've ever had. So if you want something. like that and more. We have hundreds of hours. Thousands, maybe?
Yes. And of course, there's also for people who are super into the show, there's the monthly live events, Movie Crypt Live, the second Sunday of each month, usually, and Slumber Party Massacre, which is a video show where we are on camera doing a live comedy.
to a different film each month. But point of this was just to say, and I'm sure we're gonna hopefully touch on this again in the 600th episode, thank you because the only reason we're at this number is because of those of you who care enough who stuck with us support us so if you like this show if you listen to it each week
please consider joining Patreon. It's so easy. And then you look at your account and it's got an RSS feed code. You plug that in to whatever podcast app you like to use and it will just automatically, the full episode will just show up. every single week. Can I just say 42,120 hours of content at your fingertips? Can't beat that. Nope. All right, let's shut up and get to our wonderful conversation with Kat Shea. Okay, so our next guest is someone in...
God, I sound like a broken record most times when I say long time coming. We we had a list back almost eight years ago of like our guest list. And I think it was back when we were. invited more and more to the masters of hard dinners and we were going like okay we got to talk to them we got to talk to them not for opportunities where the list came from of like oh my god we got to get them on them and not not in an opportunistic sort of way it was because these were all
And we're sitting around the table with all of these amazing filmmakers that influenced us. And having been a huge Poison Ivy fan, I remember the first time I actually got to sit next to our next guest and. Totally fanboyed out. I think I had a little bit of a crush. I mean, how can you not? But since then, I've been trying for years and going, man, she does not want to respond to me.
only realizing later on I was emailing the wrong email. So let's let, we'll just chalk it up to, I say that about everyone I've ever written to who didn't write back. Right place at the right time. But you know her films now. I can go off on her acting credits. I want to focus on her directing credits specifically because Strip to Kill and Strip to Kill 2, I think, are finally getting the audience.
deserves but when you talk about movies like streets which i just recently saw at the new beverly um poison ivy which fucking still to this day absolutely rips one of the few films and one of our few guests that ever had a premiere at moma by the way oh wow yeah right then you have the rage uh the rage carry two um let's see sanctuary and
Nancy Drew and the Hidden Staircase, which I think is a fantastic movie, and also did a Netflix movie like myself with Rescued by Ruby. Please welcome to the movie crypt, finally, Cat Shay. What an intro. Look, I can. Anytime you need someone to intro you to come into a room, I'm there. And a lot of this is attributed to my wife, Becca, who was scanning through because we have the Criterion channel. I love that. Do you have the Criterion?
channel i don't they should give you a goddamn subscription for the amount of times your movies have been on there streets have been on there uh poison ivy is definitely on there how many of my movies are on there Zero. How many of my movies are on there? Absolutely none. So Cat Shade wins again. I think all of us grew up at a time where when you heard about a film hitting the criterion. you know like the gauntlet if you will it's like oh my god your movies at first it was
Greg, the criterion collection on laser disc. Then it was DVD and Blu-ray. Then it was okay. Holy crap. They made a streaming channel. So there was a lot more access to other films that maybe they wouldn't put out in physical media, but. when your movie got on criterion channel, that was a huge deal. And we were watching point, like actually she was scanning through and she's like,
Why the hell haven't you had Cat Shea on? I'm like, I know. Somebody had to explain to me what the Criterion channel was. I didn't even know what it was. Well, it's... I just learned what Paramount Plus is. More than Paramount. Just a little more. Paramount and then one more thing. Just a little more Kevin Costner. That's all you get. Got it. But I've been such a fan of yours. I remember actually taking friends of mine to go see Carrie 2.
And I remember the first thing that one of my friends said was, aren't you a Brian De Palma fan? Why would you go see a movie that's not made by Brian De Palma? And I'm like, because it's catch a motherfuckers. And then when I told him that you had done poison Ivy because. When Poison Ivy came out in 92, I remember there was this huge spread in Entertainment Weekly. And this was at the point where all of us horny.
young male teens, maybe some females too, but all of us had that bad girl attraction to Drew Barrymore because we had grown up with her. She was our, roughly our same age. And now you're watching her hook up with Tom Skerritt. Like, fuck. man this movie sounds taboo as shit and but there was an artistry to it that elevated it from the pack and i immediately because i would go to the video store all the time i would
you know, go back and go, wait a second. That's the same director who did strip to kill two. Cause we didn't have strip to kill one. We only had two. I saw two before I saw one. Isn't that weird? That is weird. A lot of us VHS kids, we had seen the sequels to a lot of those movies like Evil Dead 2 or Texas Chainsaw 2. Some of that was my own doing because I...
in my stupid little kid brain, I thought whatever the most recent one is, well, it's the good one. It will be the better one. Makes sense. Really? That's why. Yeah. But that makes sense, though, like because you want we all want a more modern, better effects.
Exactly. Bigger budget. When I was renting videos, though, it was always like, oh, part, you know, the second one, the third, the sequels are no good, you know? Although some sequels were really great, so. Yeah, eventually I learned, maybe start with the original.
But again, I was like nine years old I feel like I got duped because of Evil Dead Because I remember watching Evil Dead 2 going, oh my god, this is fucking amazing And then going back to finally see Evil Dead 1 and going because it was like the rough draft version of it so that's where i might have plus
A lot of those movies were getting heavy exposure in Fangoria, whereas like, you know, Texas Chainsaw wasn't getting any articles in the original Fangoria because there was no Fangoria. Same with Evil Dead, or at least like right in the beginning. But Evil Dead 2 had like.
four articles. Anyway, enough about those movies. Let's talk about catch a, because, um, you know, again, anytime that you like, we would go to the, uh, masses of hard dinners. I think at one point you and I fought over who was going to sit next to cat. Yeah. You won that fight very fast though. Cause you just sat down. I just sat down. I was always sitting next to Mick because I felt safer there. You know, it's like, I don't know any of these guys. And I was the only woman for years.
That's true. That's true. It was either, it was you and Larry Cohen's wife.
remember like it was like larry cohen's wife would always show up as well yeah and then that was it for a while then axel would be there for a bit and then um but still it was like that was later though that was later in the beginning yeah when it was hamburger hamlet um there was very few women and you know that's that's something that we actually got a couple of viewer mail questions that like kind of revolve around that because up until that point i like i remember when
streets came out or even like dance of the damned. And when it was between you, there weren't many women in the genre space other than like you and like Mary Lambert, I guess you could say Susan. Penelope Spear is not really in horror. Maybe. Yeah, but in the horror realm. But she was an artist. Yeah. Penelope, you know. And you are not That's a little self-deprecating Please I wasn't saying that Guess who didn't Penelope Spears didn't have a fucking movie at MoMA So there you go Haha, touche
I was always after the artistic aspect of it. But here's the thing, you know, in horror movies, you can do so much visually and it's accepted. You know, whereas in a drama or comedy, it's hard to... get away with all this stuff you know so um i but in horror movies man you're the palette is wide open and you do all these crazy things to help tell the story
I remember it being, it was your work and Amy Holden Jones who did Slumber Party Massacre. It was you guys who... like felt like and even fangoria in a way not that they were being you know kind of misogynist but they would hold you guys up to a pedestal of like look female horror directors like it was such a like a novelty whereas you look at the films and it's funny too because when streets played at the new beverly
um it played with street walking which is you know like it was in this whole hollywood sleaze core kind of genre and but to have a female gaze in this kind of space i think was it's unfortunate that it was considered unique but the way that you guys shot it you just shot it like it was a horror movie i mean if anything slumber party massacre has more boobs than most slasher movies that were coming out at that time
she knew the assignment you know well you have to know the assignment because if you don't um the movie will be taken away from you so uh You know, definitely you want to be delivering what's required. I want to I want to go back because like you can also go through your acting. oeuvre if you will i mean you worked with de palma on scarface uh which is crazy my tutor hollywood hot tubs i i'm i'm expecting that on the criterion channel any day now yeah any day now barbarian queen
Also, another recent movie that I just watched that I love, which is Psycho 3, which is as sleazy as it gets. I want to go back to like before that, where like what got you. interested in just being in front of the camera and then subsequently behind the camera we'll get behind the camera later but what got you interested in being in front of the camera well you know
I'm one of those kids. When I was 12, I was putting on shows in the backyard, you know, and enlisting the neighborhood kids in it. And then I would charge their parents to come and see them. So I was I found out quickly that I could make a living doing this. I could overcharge them and they had no problem with it. You got to make a profit. But I was not really an actor. You know, I was a writer and I wrote everything. So, you know, I kind of fell into it.
Everyone told me I should be an actor. But I was really, really shy. You know, it took me. I found an acting coach who got me really freed up. And that's what I teach now. I teach the.
the whole thing about really being freed up and then i started to book stuff so i just got auditions and i would i would actually finally book it but it was always this stuff like nepo babies didn't want You know, so that's the stuff, you know, that's why you end up in the Barbarian Queen or Hollywood hot tubs, you know, that's the stuff that you can book if you're if you came from Michigan and don't know anybody.
but at the same time though like you were getting hands on like if if you were looking at like was your aspirations when you were kind of burgeoning your I guess your career on the more the writing front or ultimately the directing front, you know, there's a lot of, um, actors who transition into directing. And a lot of times you hear them now, like Anna Kendrick, who's got a Netflix movie that's out now that is fantastic called Women of the Hour.
All the interviews she's been doing, it almost sounds like, and I hate to use this as an example, but it's a good one that I remember as a kid. But when Mel Gibson would talk about how he transitioned into.
um filmmaking into directing he was talking about how he learned from the best and a lot of times it was just you know for him it was hands-on training with peter weir and george miller and uh richard richard donner for you were you also like interested in where's the director putting the camera and because that's one thing that i've noticed like that
I remember from your work specifically is that you have such a command on where the camera needs to be and not. And I mean, this is all the way back from, you know, strip to kill because I watch it again. And it's like it's clear, you know how to get coverage. And not only that, but coverage that feels not like TV. And when to move the kids. Yeah, exactly. That's interesting. I don't know if I really learned that.
On Scarface, you know, I was there for a week. And Brian De Palma joked that it was going to be Universal's first no-shot week. Right? Wasn't it universal? Yeah. Scarface? Yeah. You know, because it was in this nightclub and there were mirrors everywhere and he couldn't actually get a shot without the camera being in it. Now that wouldn't matter. We could just you can erase it. Yeah. Mountain Coast and everything. But yeah, it was a, but it was so.
interesting to be on that set in Al Pacino. There were times when he wasn't ready and he wasn't going to come out of his trailer and things like that. But, you know. The DPs, the cinematographers on those movies and on Psycho 3, too, really were so helpful. Because I was asking a lot of questions that really an actor shouldn't be asking. You should just be doing your job, you know? And...
I was always overstepping my bounds and nobody got mad at me. So it's kind of surprising to me now because I look back on it and go, wow, you know. How did I get away with that? They were really helpful. Mike Westmore, the makeup artist who did the Raging Bull, and I think he won an Academy Award for Mask, on Psycho 3. And he's like, you know, I mean, he did the prosthetic for me, but he's also like doing my mascara and stuff like it was so. Talk about being overqualified for something, but.
He ended up doing the breasts, the prosthetic breasts in Strip to Kill. And he wrote a letter for me to Roger Corman saying that he would do it at cost. Oh. For me, for my directing debut. And it was just so cool. I mean, it was amazing that that came to be like that. I love the idea that there was because like you were talking before about how you felt like you were overstepping your bounds. I'll be honest. I anytime that I've had an actor.
stand next to me and they're not like you can tell that they're not standing there because they're checking their makeup or they're looking to see how good they're you know is their hair light perfect or are they just being narcissistic about themselves but they're actually genuinely absorbing this like the process i've had like on the last movie that i did uh this movie called suitable flesh um we had this younger actor judah lewis who would just
hang out next to me on set. And at first I was like, the fuck is this kid doing? Like, but then I realized like, no, he's, and he was asking all these questions. Like, why do you use a 55, you know, instead of like using an 18, you know? And I was like. all these genuinely like stimulating at times it made me even go oh fuck you're right maybe i shouldn't be using a 55 maybe you should go 75 or something i was so impressed
I felt like they were stupid questions, you know, but. But it helps to know that as an, I was impressed on frozen. Whenever I yelled out a lens size, I don't even know if he's aware he does it. Kevin Zegers would hold up his hands to. he knew himself like okay so we're close yeah oh so he knew every lens size but he's been acting since he was a little kid so i think it helps to know that because
I mean, most directors, I think, try to communicate to their actors. Hey, so on this one, this is the framing. Or the DP will do that if the director didn't. But it does help to know what is going to be in the frame when you're actually performing. In my classes, I say what? Ask them, say, what's my frame line? So you know. And no one gets, because that's something I've.
I've seen people, and maybe I've done it whenever I've acted too, where I'm like, oh, I don't want to bother anybody if I'm asking that. But I think DPs, camera operators, and directors, they... feel like you are connected more to the process if you are actually acting like asking that most times people just go where's my mark dude you know it's like and they don't care as much but when they're actually asking like oh you know like
what lens do you want to use on that? Oh, okay. And then you can see them processing it going, you know, I don't really even have to move my hands right now. You know, like certain things like that go through that filter of the process. I was just, it's funny though, because with psycho three.
considering that the baton was passed from Hitchcock in one form to his main actor, Anthony Hopkins, and now an actor is behind the scenes calling the shots. And you're asking him that. Did you ever find when... you were in one of the many films that you've directed that a particular actor was asking you about questions too the same way you were with Anthony? I've never had an actor do that actually.
I've had people, you know, stand next to me and be watching and ask questions, but not as specific as that. I do want to ask, though, what was it like working with Anthony on Psycho 3? I love that movie. What's funny is that... The first one, you know, it's a classic. The second one has now in the last like 15 years been reappropriated as like, it's like Richard Franklin did a legitimately great Hitchcock ripoff. Yeah. In a good way. Cycle two.
was phenomenal yeah it's a great movie but i think at the time it was because slashers were so in vogue someone at universal had the idea oh let's do another psycho god forbid it's a 20 30 year like time distance but just like uh 10 15 years ago everything that got announced that was being remade in that craze the people would go oh you can't remake that you can't and get really upset i think that was why at the time maybe psycho 2 wasn't as appreciated
I mean, maybe because I loved it so much. I thought everybody did, you know, I just had seen what the window coming down and the fingers chopped off. When I was a kid, that was the coolest thing. So scary, you know, Yes, the shovel. Oh, my God. Back of the head. Psycho 3. I remember seeing that in the theater. And I mean, that's another one where it's clearly a product of its time, because at that point in 86, you know, we were in like the.
almost postmodern part, like a phase of the slasher era where even films like psycho three were feeling the effects of like, the you gotta have sex you gotta have the drugs you have to have the blood and you know like it was all the formula stuff that you would see in a friday the 13th 13th movie applied to a psycho movie. What was it like? Was there anything in particular you remember from getting direction from Anthony? Well, what I remember is he was really stressed out.
And, you know, it was really, it's such a balancing act to start in a movie, even if you know the character by the back of your hand and direct it. I think he was under a lot of pressure. And I think maybe he thought he needed to know a language, the language better than he actually did need to know it because artistically he was bringing something forward. And I don't think.
He felt confident about that. I had a lot of fun with him because I just decided to play around. He needed some fun, some stress relief. So I was just joking around with him the whole time about, you know, throwing me out the window. I go, I'm your love interest in this movie. And I'm dead the whole time, you know.
How was it? So first day, you know, I was like, I was always joking around and he would laugh. So it was really, it was really good. That was really good. But I was still able to, it was Bruce Sertiz, right? Yeah. I can't believe that. Yeah, he was very nice and very, you know, he would he would tell me what was going on behind the camera, which was cool, you know.
For me, it was really hard. It was actually really difficult because he threw me out a window and I had to land on my chin and be dead. And then he dragged me through a rainstorm. You know, it's reclaimed water. My head's back. My mouth is wide open. And he threw me in a, you know, trunk. And it was all the ice chest.
He put real ice in the ice chest. That ice chest scene still freaks me out. Anytime that I've ever seen one of those big ice chests in a motel, I think of your fucking corpse in there. And that denim jacket. The denim jacket as well, right? Oh, did I wear a denim jacket? I believe you had a denim jacket in that too. See, these are the dumb fucking things that I wore. I had a little fringe top on, I remember, and I was frozen.
I mean, I don't think I needed that much blue makeup. I was like freaking frozen. See, I thought it was like the fake, like little plastic things. And he told me, I go, that's real. He goes, yeah, it looks better. I'm going to be in there. He goes, just for like 30 seconds. When Psycho 3 was made, correct me if I'm wrong, Anthony was already sick.
By that point. Right. But no one knew. Yeah. And that was interesting because, you know, he's kissing me a lot. And and then I think it was later came out, Linda Evans. What was that? Hudson, Brock Hudson. Yeah. Thing about the kissing and he had AIDS and all of that. And for a second there, I was like, wow, that's kind of scary.
especially at that time it's so sad even his um his wife she died on 9-11 um yeah in one of the planes that hit that i was talking about that yeah yeah now around this time this is where the i guess i guess the genesis of strip to kill came from because correct me if i'm wrong but this was an idea that you were coming up with with andy right at that point
So, and now how did that translate? Cause look, everybody in Hollywood, everyone's got an idea, you know, it's like, I got that star making idea. And at the time, you know, look. anything that sounded like to kill. You can throw anything with a to kill, like cooked to kill, dressed to kill, baked to kill, whatever it is. It was only dressed to kill, and it was a homage. The title was a homage to dressed to kill. But at that time, I didn't know about any other titles like that. Maybe they were.
out there but i didn't hear of them what happened was i andy and i were having dinner we were writing together and we made a bet i lost the bet and i had to go to a strip club so his greatest You know, which this is a whole thing too, because, you know, I was like. I graduated from college when I was really young and I was not very experienced about life. And then I came to Los Angeles, you know, so he thought the biggest.
you know, terrible thing he could do to me is make me go to a strip club. So I go to the body shop. And he waits outside. He thinks I'll be right out. Of course, I walk in and they mistake me for an off-duty stripper. Why else would I be there? So I walk and I'm by myself and I sit, I sit, I sat at a table kind of in the back. And, you know, a few of these performers came out and I thought.
God, they're so interesting. You know, they're really trying to use this venue for something artistic. And that really just... It fascinated me that they weren't just out there to grab dollar bills and go to my place. I saw you know this one dancer that had these fluorescent whips and she's doing this thing where she's an alien.
You know, and she's got these fluorescent whips and she's got antennas and all this stuff. And it was just I was really fascinated. Andy, you know, he was outside and I think he left because he thought I was never coming out. And he didn't come in. He's not weird. He never came in. But when I finally came out, you know, this is really, really interesting to me.
People don't know about it. If you've ever seen a stripper in a movie, they're just standing there and they take their clothes off. It's very uninteresting. But I saw girls flying around a pole. This was way before anybody knew anything about pole dancing. You never saw that before. Before it was a workout for everyone. And that's because of strip to kill. I firmly believe it.
because nobody knew about it before. And I said, I want to pitch this. I went, we have to make a movie and I know who will buy it. And it was Roger. So I had been in a movie. What was I in? I was in the Barbarian Queen. So I knew. Oh, and then I went to the Philippines to do this movie called The Destroyer or something like that. I don't know. They changed the movie's name a couple of times.
And and they had me shoot some second unit because, you know, I'm always asking questions. So shut her up and give her a camera. And I'm from the Philippines. They gave me a camera. I shot a bunch of second unit. And so Roger heard about it. There were a couple of things that happened. A lot of Clarkson starred in Barbarian Queen, who you might.
um remember as being uh killed by phil spector her claim to fame unfortunately yeah she was a little hard to handle honestly she was really she thought she was going to be a big star and um I guess I helped the director with her a few times. And that word got back to Roger. So Roger said, I got another movie for you in the Philippines. So I... He just gave me that role, I think. I don't think I even auditioned for it. And then I got there, I shot Second Unit. So he was very, he was...
He liked me, you know what I mean? And plus, you know, I graduated from school early and I went to the University of Michigan and I graduated magna cum laude. He's from Michigan. So, you know, Michigan's like this. kind of like Ivy League alternative you know so and it's very highly respected and he was he was really into that and So when, but I still couldn't get a meeting with him to pitch something. I was an actor.
You know, so it wasn't like he was opening that door. He had 5000 people on a list. You know what I mean? Who came from film schools that, you know, were. incredible. And so it would have been hard for me to get a meeting. So I knew when he went to lunch. I don't know how I figured that out, but maybe I just stalked him long enough to figure it out. But I parked my car. I had this little Nissan Sentra. Ah, the Nissan Sentra.
Barrington? Yeah, Barrington, I think. But he had this big, big window, and you could see his back. in his office so when he stood up around noon and he would walk to local restaurants you know so um i got out of my car and i looked like i ran around the block And I went, Oh, Roger. Wow. Fancy meeting you here. I have got a pitch for you. This is going to knock your socks off. I go, I like group club.
And I saw these women dancing. I go, they fly around a pole. You can't believe it, you know, because I knew what he would be interested in. Now, Andy and I had to come up with a story and I want it to be a murder mystery. And I had this whole thing about Brian De Palma and Alfred Hitchcock. And I love those movies. And I wanted to do something really great like that. So anyway, so he says, you know, come in my office Monday morning and pitch it to me. So I did.
You know, so over the weekend, Andy and I really had to get this pitch together. And at the end, OK, we have this pitch and I'm going to go in there and pitch it to him. And Andy says, and tell him you're going to direct it. And I was like, why would I say that? You know, he goes, well, tell what you are. You are going to direct it. He goes, I'm so sick of people.
We write a great script, and they change it all, and they screw it all up. And that had happened. We wrote a really good script, and then this director got a hold of it. He was like, I can blow up a wall, so I'm going to. it's like you know whatever with the script um so so at the end of the pitch roger was really he was excited by it and he said and i'll direct it and uh
Was there any pushback at all for that? I mean, like now, like, and look fair, fairly enough. Now, if that was the same paradigm here. like a writing team of a man and a woman, it would like, you would get a green light faster if it was the woman stepping forward to direct, you know? Here's the bad part of that. I mean, it would have been better if Andy and I, you know, if I had just held Tim to write that. But because the thing is, you know, after Poison Ivy, I didn't work for seven years.
You know, it really had to do with me being a woman. I met with everybody in Hollywood. Everybody wanted to meet me. Everybody knew my name. It was unbelievable. I was in offices you couldn't believe. And meeting with producers that were incredible. You know, like Al Ruddy who did The Godfather. It was like everybody wanted to meet me.
But I never got a job out of it. Why do you think that is? They were just, they weren't going to hire a woman. You know, they didn't even know it. They didn't know it. My agent didn't know it. None of us knew it. But that was the case. You know, it just wasn't going to go all the way through. It wasn't going to happen. And so. Anyway, I kind of got away from what I was saying. But with Roger, no, there was absolutely no pushback about that. He was a little shocked that I said it.
But the pushback was, you know, it took me over a year to convince him to do Strict to Kill because I didn't believe that a man could. you could pass himself off as a woman in a strip club. Like he just didn't believe it. It was before the crying game. So there was no precedent for that at the time that I was pitching and it was before the crying game. So.
So I would send him pictures of like topless woman and a topless guy, but like you couldn't tell the difference. And I would send him pictures and I go, which one's the real girl? Oh, slick. I'm doing this in the mail. And, and then I bring it, I go, I went to the La Caja Fall was a. Oh, I acted in that. I know that so well. It was such a great, it was a female impersonator club of men.
And they were fantastic. They were so believable, so entertaining. So I went backstage and I asked one of the guys if he would come with me to Roger's office and explain to him what he did with his package. while he was in a G string because Roger seemed kind of hung up about that. And I bring this guy into Roger's office and he's real nervous, the young man.
And like he goes into great glory detail about it. And Roger's turning purple. I didn't know he was going to go into that kind of detail, you know. Roger turns purple. He goes. You can do the movie. Just get out of my office. Get out of my office. But I went, he said I can do the movie. So I'm on cloud nine. I go home. I'm so happy. Andy's so happy. Andy's going to be the producer. We're going to write it together.
And it's going to be great. Roger, I answer the phone. It's Roger. And he goes, you can't do the movie. I changed my mind. Oh, God. Can you believe that? And I went, Roger, no. 20 something. And I went, Roger, no, we're doing this movie and it's going to be a huge hit and you are going to be so happy. We are doing it. I said this to him and he didn't.
you which was really amazing you know it's like i don't know sometimes you know when you're young i don't know you have a lot of listen here corman i'm running this fucking show Well, what did you have to lose at that point? I guess, you know, right? I mean, what am I going to do? Hang up and go, okay, you know, I would have had to stalk him again.
I didn't want to do that. So anyway, it took a long time. I was supposed to star in it at one point, and then he fired me as the star, and I was so... Because I was like going to be the first topless director. Can you imagine? Like that would be so horrifying. Two things. One, I totally forgot. that your editor, Zach Stanberg, is one of my favorite editors. He did all the Wachowski brothers.
uh siblings movies like he started with um bound and he did uh the matrix and obviously like all the other um like speed racer and stuff like that but um he also directed he also uh edited um gaudy which was that great the TV movie that he had done. I love his work. So what was it like working with him? Oh, it was fantastic. You know. I hired him. He came in on a meeting to edit. And we just got along really great. It was such a hard situation.
Okay. You can't ever show Roger a rough cut that is longer than what the finished movie is going to be. So my rough cut was supposed to be 86 minutes. And I had no idea. Nobody told me. First of all, because I think I cut in front of those 5,000 people that were supposed to be directors, I think some of the executives were a little miffed. Oh. And they tell me certain things, you know? So, and I don't know. Maybe they didn't even know it. I don't know. I'm just making that up.
But that's what Andy's theory was. He was very upset about it. But I showed him like a two-hour rough cut, and he went ballistic. Oh, man. He's yelling at me and he said, I thought you were smart. I hired you because I thought you were smart. And I was like, oh, shit. He decided to edit the movie. And it's very choppy, actually. Strip to kill is very, very choppy. And that's not Zach's fault. But Roger would go in every day.
and uh he let me come still to the editing room but uh he would he would have Zach cutting off 10 frames, you know, or two frames. He was cutting it all over the place and really, really choppy. And then he wanted more breasts, but I hid all the breast shots.
in a box that said hubcap the old yeah the old cutting room floor which was actually just all the boob shots oh yeah and oh was cutting though he wasn't cutting was he cutting on a movie probably back then yeah i would imagine i think he managed to get um A computer in there. I don't know why I'm thinking this, but I think he did. I think he actually had something like the early something or other.
I don't know well one of the other one of the other things i wanted to mention about strip to kill is that i don't know if you've seen anora yet uh sean baker's our good friend sean baker's uh new movie which is about the uh you know strip club world it it does have a component of like strip clubs in there but it's you know it's a very you know sex positive female forward version of that like
The point I bring it up is when we were watching it, we were even thinking like, this feels very much like strip to kill in a way, because the way that you shot that movie was very unintrusive. It felt like you weren't leering on these, on these women. You were looking down on them.
exactly and that like and in most cases when you see movies like this there's usually like you know it's mostly like a mob movie or you know like a drug-fueled heist film and people are walking through a strip joint and they always have the obligatory shot of the girl dancing around either in the background or they cut to them and stuff because they have to cut some dialogue out but the way That you shot a lot of these scenes It felt like it was Part of the dramatic narrative
more than it being exploitation and i really appreciated that and i would not be surprised if if like sean baker was here right now you go oh my god of course i watched trip to kill like that's like that that was one of the major influences for it if you do get a chance to see that movie which I'm sure you're going to get an Academy screening any day now. Right. This is going to win all the awards. Academy screening room. It's so good. But like, you will definitely sit there and go.
Oh, he totally watched Trip to Kill. Absolutely. Well, that's cool. Yeah. I mean, it was really about. The reality of it, you know, that they were artists. In my eyes, they were artists and they were just using that venue to express themselves because that's where they could. And so that's. The whole movie kind of, it was driven by that, by that perspective. Can I jump ahead? Yeah, go ahead.
no no no i have plenty of other questions but you can you can take over i want to jump ahead to rescued by ruby so wow that that's a jump i know i know i know we're gonna go back sorry but um so as a huge uh animal lover especially a dog lover i i guess i wasn't aware when i saw it that it was based on a true story even though i think doesn't it say in the beginning inspired by true events or based on a true story i can't remember it does
Yeah, because afterwards when I read the real story, but for anyone who hasn't seen it yet, it's on Netflix. You should watch it. But it's about. a guy who wants to be a canine trainer for the police. And they're like over budget. I believe that was the reason why they couldn't bring any more German shepherds. And then ends up meeting this. dog at a shelter and they're going to have to put the dog down but the guy's like I'll take the dog and train it and it's such a great
uplifting, amazing story. Young guy, he's ADHD. So that was the other reason, like they didn't really put that forward, but that was the other reason he was thought like, he's not going to. get into the canine thing you know just stay where you are kind of thing but you have a all aside from directing it you you also played the the clicker trainer in that oh yeah
That's right. I do. Did you have experience doing that beforehand? Like had you trained dogs in any type of professional aspect or that was just like a cameo? No, it's just a cameo, but you know what I mean?
horses for 40 years and train that horses i train dogs and horses they're mine though you know and i guess i wish i wish i could have a horse i've had the best freaking horses oh my god just earlier today because at the time we're recording this is still halloween season and so my wife and i go to like several different pumpkin patches each year because they have petting zoos
And today was the one that we go to because they have rabbits as well. Wait, the one over here on Riverside? Or you just want to pet them? Yeah. And the goats. And it's just unbelievable how friendly goats are. Because even after they've... eating all the food that you have in your hands, they just stand there. And if you stop petting them, they just put their head against you to keep going.
But I don't know how the rabbits don't get stepped on because the goats are jumping around and the rabbits somehow get out of the way. I don't know. Anyway, but as. Normally, I don't get to be around goats or horses or animals like that. So any chance I get, I'll do it. But working on a movie where one of the main talents is a dog.
Having done a movie with wolves in it, I know it slows everything down. It's, it's, it's, it's whole other thing. Had you done anything with animals? I mean, that's really my first movie where, um, a dog starred in it, you know. And it was my great pleasure to work with all the animals in that movie. I loved that. And the funny thing about it is, Bear, that dog, really didn't slow things down much at all. So.
This is sort of an inside story. The producer's a real nice guy. His name is Dan Angel. He's a really nice guy. But, you know, I mean, there was some... Because he mostly produced TV and he likes to get things done. So he had, and we were shooting in Canada. He shoots a lot in Canada. So there's a lot of relationships up there. And he tells me, you know, I hired this dog trainer and she's got these two white German shepherds and we're going to paint.
them to look like, you know, Ruby. And then you'll have two really well trained dogs to play Ruby. And I was like, oh shit, this is going to be horrible. You know, like this is going to be the worst movie ever. And how do I get, I'm just hired. He hired me and I'm already.
You know, rewriting the script with Karen Jensen and doing all these things that are scaring the hell out of him to begin with. And then I have to go and I can't let it go. I go, I can't do this. I can't do this with two waiters. shepherds so i i um i thought i talked to i have a very close friend that i ride horses with and she's a dog trainer for movies and her name is tiffany wall
And she's really, she's gorgeous. And she's flashy. But that has nothing to do with the story. But anyway. Doesn't matter. Sounds like one of our stories. I'm talking to blonde, beautiful Tiffany. I go, Tiffany, I don't know what to do. Like he wants to hire two white German shepherds. And she goes, who's the trainer? And she's from Canada. So she finds out.
The show that that trainer's on is getting canceled because the dogs are out of control. So I go, oh, my God, that's fantastic. So I go, oh, we can't have that trainer, Dan. You know, they're canceling their show because. Dogs are out of control. What? So he calls and he goes, oh my God, you're right. I don't know how you found that out. I go, but I have this fantastic trainer. And I sell him on Tiffany and Tiffany go, they.
Their company only works with shelter dogs. So we get a shelter dog to play the shelter dog. Not only that, Bear was on his last week. He was going to get put down. Oh, just like the real story. Oh, my God. That's crazy. Oh, yeah. And he's when they found him, he was a mess. He was full of like BB gun bullets. Oh, you know.
little bb's and they they rescued him and they you know took care of him and you see in the movie he's gorgeous right but he's actually played by uh by uh two dogs but only because he's so big Like you can't pick him up 20 times. You know what I mean? You can't. He weighs like, I don't know, 95 pounds or something. So he was played with his little girlfriend and we painted her to look like him. It's a dye job, but it's all vegetable.
not bad for them or anything but it was that was a big coup um was being able to get the right dog you know because could you imagine if rescue by ruby was played by two white german shepherds Well, OK, it's kind of similar story on Frozen, where we had like a pack of wolves. in the script one of the wolves has to attack one of the actors and like knock him to the ground and the trainer sled reynolds who had done dances with wolves narnia like he's like the wolf guy
He was like, well, we're not going to use a real wolf for that. We're going to use my own personal dog, Mister, who kind of looks like a wolf. And it'll be great because Mister is so well trained. Well, like three days before shooting. mr died and um and then this was like sled's family dog the dog that slept in his bed i mean it was horrible but i'm like well um what do we
what do we do? Cause you said you can't have a real wolf attack an actor. Cause like wolves can be like managed, but they can't be trained the same as a dog. And he's like, Don't worry. We have this other dog, Dart. We're just going to paint him up to look just like one of the wolves. It's going to be fine. And I'm like, OK, great. Well, why the trepidation? And he's like, well, Dart is a border calling.
i'm like that how is that gonna work well you know if you have the right angle and and i'm like this is there's no way this is gonna work and is a border collie vicious enough to come like flying at an actor and knock him down and so sean ashmore the actor um of course we played a prank on him and told him
There's this wolf Mastiff hybrid that they're bringing out. And if you don't want to do the scene, just give me a look and I'll be the one to call it and say it's too dangerous. And they brought Dart out in this big. cage but then this tiny border collie comes out and then that border collie beat the shit out of him and to the point that he would prefer to have a real wolf on his arm and that's what they ended up doing but that border collie was the toughest thing
I had ever seen. And in the movie, in the takedown, No one's ever noticed for a second that it's suddenly this little dog flying through the air. Yeah, nobody ever notices there's a rescue by Ruby either. But I don't use, it's Shiloh, I don't use her very much, you know. And, you know. Ruby's played by a boy dog but just it's so incredible though that it was a rescue dog playing the rescue dog that is crazy I had to have that I was like I just went, how can we, we can't do this with a...
German Shepherd. The whole point is he's different than all these other dogs, you know, all these Malinois and German Shepherds. He's not that, you know, just like the crazy. You know, there was this one shot where he sits, you know, they're training and all the dogs are sitting. And then Bear is just like, he's just being ridiculous, you know, and I had to have that. in. And it's just kind of a funny shot from way back.
And you just see the backs of these dogs, but just little things like that, you know, all those little things, those little details just built up to creating this wonderful character, Ruby. Was that movie made under the Netflix banner or was it acquired by Netflix after? No, it was Netflix. Netflix produced it. How did it work?
Did you have a good experience with them? Because I, from a producing standpoint, like Netflix as the studio, I did a movie for them called Point Blank in 2018. And, you know. I had heard rumors like, oh, they're very hands-off, or they care about algorithms and hitting certain beats that will make the algorithm happy rather than giving you notes because they're not really executives. They're more like tech people.
What was it like for you from a creative standpoint working with them? They were actually pretty great. I had Harry Lachine and Christina. Is it Christina Peters? I think so. I think so too. I know it's Christina. I worked mostly with Harry. I talked mostly with Harry. And I really liked them. They gave me notes. but um they were they were cool about it yeah you know and i had a big
I had a big problem with the DP. Okay. So here's the other thing. To hear the rest of this episode, go to patreon.com slash the movie crypt for only $1 a month. You'll get every new episode every Monday downloaded. Right. to your podcast app of choice.